{"id":152081,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152081","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1ea940d9d177d61600cbbe991ada1931c55be169921a0a717264d6e8ebc4b9b055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"11:28:00 - 11:39:03","影片長度":"00:11:03","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部列席就「『偏遠地區學校教育發展條例』施行迄今之成效及檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員魯明哲等24人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員馬文君等17人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條及第十九條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員盧縣一等20人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條、第十二條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月29日及5月2日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":663,"end_time":"2024-05-02T11:39:03+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T11:28:00+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":710,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（11時28分）謝謝主席！有請潘部長。"],["主席：請部長。謝謝！"],["潘部長文忠：委員好！"],["張委員雅琳：部長好！上次已經討論過有關於少子化的問題，不管是大學還是小學都可能會有少子化的問題，我們必須要做些因應，其實在107年我們制定這個偏鄉教育條例的時候，裡面提到一個很重要的關鍵就是穩定的師資，不要再讓學生們問「老師，你會不會回來？」，但是我想現在應該是要問「學校，你還會不會在？」，在教育部的停辦準則裡面有說同一鄉鎮市區只有一所國小或國中或者是到鄰近的學校有交通重大安全疑慮的時候，不得停辦。第九條也規定合併或停辦應由地方主管機關依本法第十條……進行評估，並送中央主管機關備查，但是上次我已經講了這個潭墘國小其實並沒有直接說要停辦，到開學的時候就把學生轉走了，這件事情有說要備查，請問現在進度到哪裡？已經備查了嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，謝謝委員的關心，我們對於那些要整併的學校要收拾起來有一個很嚴謹的規則，這個原則也就是要確保學生受教的權益。"],["張委員雅琳：我想要瞭解這個個案的情況。"],["潘部長文忠：假如說這個學校真的要終止、廢校了，一定要得到充分的溝通，但是看起來這個潭墘國小，社區並不支持縣政府這樣的作法，所以這個案子到目前教育部還沒合併。"],["張委員雅琳：但是學生都轉走了，有沒有備查對學生來說好像也已經於事無補了。而且我覺得還要提一個重點，就是這個學校才剛領完經費，整修完圖書館，然後又停辦了，這對我來說、對我們大家來說都是一個資源的浪費。同時我也想要再延伸這個題目，就是彰化的大城鄉在2020年也停辦了永光國小，這個小學停辦之後家長就把小孩轉到了頂庄國小，沒多久頂庄國小又停辦廢校了，這就嚴重了，因為這等於是說小孩才剛適應了這個學校，沒多久他又要去適應另一個學校，我想部長一定非常瞭解，孩子需要有穩定的秩序感才能夠有一個很好的學習表現，可是這樣子等於是讓這些孩子的受教權嚴重的被打擊，他等於一直不停的在適應。我們現在再看一下潭墘國小，他們在2023年停辦的時候學生數有29個，我算了一下，我們現在29人以下的國小，偏鄉國小數有168校，將近所有偏鄉國小的五分之一，全部國小校數現在是2,672所，裡面有178所，所以這樣子的停辦看起來好像就是首長自己的決定而不是真的依循了家長、居民等等的意願，剛剛我講的就是我們還是要回到孩子的受教權這件事情，請問你們有沒有去瞭解連續停辦3所國小這個問題？是不是有考慮協助他們以分校的方式來進行呢？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，縣市國民中小學興辦的相關權責，依地方制度法本來就在地方政府，我想法制面的規範是如此，但是教育部當時制定這個準則也做了一個要求，這當中完全認同委員剛才談到的學校人數再少，每一個學生受教的權益是一定要被確立的，我們為什麼要要求核備，為的就是當你比如說溝通完，到底某個學校的這些學生怎麼去安排，他如果要到其他的學校，那他的交通問題甚至有沒有其他應該有的配套等，這些都是我們備查裡要求的要件。"],["張委員雅琳：對，但是現況就是他們其實都沒有完成卻已經做了這些事情，聽起來就是非常不合理。"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，不管地方政府或首長，也要面對地方自己的縣市民，教育部就是依法做適法監督，即如同跟委員講的，我覺得潭墘國小的程序還沒有適當完備，所以教育部不會去核備這個停辦案。"],["張委員雅琳：沒關係，因為時間問題，這部分監察院其實已經介入調查，民眾也提告了，我想我們對這部分就持續的關心。但是我還是要回到這件事情，因為學生數其實是迅速的下降，117年跟111年相較，學生數整整少了30萬人，這樣子的話，我們的停辦準則應該要有更細緻的規劃，譬如說學生人數啦、優先改成分校的形式或是停辦的時程等等，都應該要有一個一定的標準，所以在沒有完成備查程序之前，學生留在原校就讀。請問這件事情可不可行？"],["潘部長文忠：如果以這個個案來講，未核備其實講真的表示這個停辦應該還沒有確定，如果以這樣來說，我們再來看看這個準則是不是在過渡過程當中應該要再做怎麼樣的一些修正，我們可能要做一個檢討。"],["張委員雅琳：再來就是有關特教的部分，我當然感謝也很肯定教育部潘部長過去這幾年其實有調降特教生的師生比，然後也提供了相當大的資源跟資金來協助第一線的老師跟助理員；但我覺得還是有一個實際上的問題，就是特教資源中心即將法制化，聽起來是要協助學校在特殊教育方面做更好的推廣跟落實，可是我們來看了一下這個薪資表，先看深粉紅色的部分，今天同樣都是五年年資的老師，若加上主管加給及不休假獎勵，學校的特教組長可以得到67萬；可是當他今天去了資源中心變成召集人的時候，我現在算的紅色的地方，都是先幫他算進去的，最高大概是66萬，整整比在學校要少。如果是一般的老師，他留在學校可以領到61萬，到了資源中心就變成59萬，而且還沒有寒暑假，這些都是有特教加給的數字。所以我想要確認，像這樣的薪資到底要如何吸引老師願意去資源中心？到資源中心的老師，應該是要更有經驗的去協助各地的老師處理問題！第一、我們到底有沒有特教加給，這是老師非常關注的問題；第二、只有兼職召集人跟副召集人可以兼領這個兼職費嗎？原本行政院公告的草案第十六條說召集人每個月可以支領專業領導費6,000元，但是近期開說明會的時候，草案文字卻從每個月的6,000元變成了5,000元，為什麼召集人跟副召集人的專業領導費變成兼職費，數字還降低了？這樣一來就更沒有意願去特教資源中心，我認為這是協助學校一個非常重要的資源。在這種狀況下，不能只讓老師靠熱情跟使命感去協助，所以，我們到底要如何吸引特教老師前往服務呢？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，這個已經是數十年的問題，首先要謝謝大院在去年通過國教法跟特教法的修法，讓幾個輔導團及各中心有這樣一個法制化的機會。同時我也跟委員報告，我們整體面對的不只是特教，因為各縣市所成立的國教輔導團是各領域都有，包含特教的各種資訊也都有，所以當時在討論這件事情的時候，教育部是極力的幫忙，但涉及教師待遇等等的，一定要報行政院，這部分溝通的過程，真的花了比較長的時間，最後在法規適用上也有所突破，把那個兼職還有其他相關的獎勵措施一併算是通過完成。"],["張委員雅琳：這樣看起來，到底會不會有特教加給，我想這是老師非常關心的？能不能兼領兼職費，兼職費金額到底是多少？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，我剛才為什麼會說它是整個地方政府相關的組成，不是單獨的一部分，所以行政院這次在核定各方面，應該是比較一致性的給教育部、給各縣市政府，不是單一項目；如果今天有單獨的項目，我們可能要另外從這方面去考慮，因為這涉及到教師待遇，不是教育部單獨決定，行政院當然也有它全面性的考量。我要跟委員報告，這次已經是一個很大的突破，我們也溝通了好幾個月……"],["張委員雅琳：但是，我想這還是會回到老師為什麼要過去的這個問題，老師就會變成沒有意願去資源中心嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：委員，我知道，儘管我520之後不接，我想我跨了這一步，我都當作一定要在這個之前把它完成，現在也完成，我相信後續在各項能不能再有一定的努力，是不是我們再接續……"],["張委員雅琳：好，不好意思，我再問10秒鐘，這個部分到底什麼時候會公布實施？"],["潘部長文忠：這本來就適用新學年開始……"],["張委員雅琳：這個草案，在新學年……"],["潘部長文忠：新的113學年度。"],["張委員雅琳：113學年度？"],["潘部長文忠：對，現在整個已經完備，我們開始準備公告，但是真的開始適用，要在新學年度。"],["張委員雅琳：沒關係，我們會後繼續討論。"],["潘部長文忠：至於未來有哪些特別的部分，我想可以用這個基礎再往前走……"],["張委員雅琳：我們會後再討論好了。"],["潘部長文忠：不要說以往這些縣市在找的這些，什麼都沒有，只有一個名譽而已，我想這樣不對，應該法制化才對。"],["張委員雅琳：對，理解，但是前提還是要解決啦！"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請吳春城委員發言。在林倩綺委員質詢完畢後，我們處理臨時提案。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":378,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","盧縣一","萬美玲","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","陳培瑜","葉元之","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","吳春城","林倩綺","徐富癸","何欣純","黃仁","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鍾佳濱","范雲","邱志偉","黃珊珊","劉建國"],"page_start":311,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部列席就「『偏遠地區學校教育發展條例』施行迄今之成效及檢討」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修\n正草案」案、(二)委員魯明哲等24人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條條文修正草案」\n案、( 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00:00:10,210\n教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育\n\n2\n00:00:12,723 --> 00:00:41,926\n委員好部長好那就是因為上次已經有討論過有關於這個少子化的問題我們應該要提供給小學不管是大學包含是小學可能會有這個少子化的問題我們必須要做些因應嘛那其實在107年我們制定這個偏鄉教育條例的時候呢裡面有提到一個很重要關鍵就是穩定的師資所以讓學生們不要再問老師你會不會回來但是我想現在應該是要問學校你還會不會在\n\n3\n00:00:43,086 --> 00:01:10,632\n所以在教育部的準則裡面有說同一鄉鎮市區只有一所國小或國中的時候呢或者是說到鄰近的學校有交通重大安全疑慮的時候不得停辦那根據第九條也有規定就是說合併或停辦應由地方主管機關依本法第十條等等等等進行評估等等之後呢來進送那個中央主管機關備查但是就上次我也其實講了這個談前國小他其實並沒有\n\n4\n00:01:12,699 --> 00:01:20,255\n開學時直接要停辦轉走學生這件事有說要被查,現在進度在哪裡?已經被查了嗎?\n\n5\n00:01:21,104 --> 00:01:26,065\n我跟委員報告謝謝委員這個當時我們那些有關要整併這個學校要就是要收拾起來的有一個很嚴謹的規則這個原則也就是要確保學生受教的權益目前因為他這個部分我所謂的這個學校比如說真的要終止要廢校了你一定要得到充分的溝通但是看起來沒有以這個\n\n6\n00:01:48,269 --> 00:01:58,092\n彈犬國小社區並不是支持縣政府這樣的做法所以這個案子到目前教育部還沒核備但是學生都轉走了沒有被查有沒有被查就學生好像已經於事無補了而且我覺得還要提一個重點就是說這個學校才剛領完經費整修完圖書館\n\n7\n00:02:05,555 --> 00:02:15,982\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n\n8\n00:02:27,748 --> 00:02:42,490\n教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。廢校這就嚴重這等於是說這個小孩本來才剛適應了這個學校他又要去適應個學校那我想部長一定非常了解孩子需要在一個穩定的秩序感才能夠有一個很好的學習表現嘛可是這樣子等於是讓這些孩子的受教權\n\n9\n00:02:43,351 --> 00:02:44,231\n教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。\n\n10\n00:03:12,097 --> 00:03:34,012\n這樣子停辦看起來好像就是首長自己決定而並不是爭著依循了家長、居民等等的意願所以我想要回到剛剛講的就是說我們還是要回到孩子的受教權這件事情那我們有沒有去了解這個連續停辦三所國小的這個問題是不是也有考慮協助他們來做分校的方式來進行呢?\n\n11\n00:03:36,074 --> 00:03:58,371\n我跟委員報告當然縣市國民中小學那個整個新辦的相關的權責啦一地方制度法本來就在地方政府這個我想法制面的規範是如此但是教育部當時為什麼制定這個準則也做了一個要求這個當中完全認同委員剛才談到學校人數再少\n\n12\n00:03:59,614 --> 00:04:20,509\n學生受教每一個學生受教的權益是一定要被確立的我們在為什麼要要求這個核備就是說當你比如說溝通完到底比如像以某個學校的這些學生你怎麼去安排他如果要到其他的學校那他的交通問題甚至有沒有其他應該有的配套這些都是我們備查裡面要求的要件\n\n13\n00:04:21,329 --> 00:04:43,056\n對,但是我們現在的現況就是說他們其實都沒有完成,但是他也就已經做了這些事情嘛,那聽起來就是非常不合理。我也跟委員告告,不管地方政府或首長也要面對地方他自己的縣市民,因為我覺得教育部依法做事法監督,就是跟委員講的,像談錢國小我覺得程序還沒有做適當完備,所以教育部不會去核配他這個這個停辦案。\n\n14\n00:04:45,165 --> 00:05:13,144\n好那我想沒關係因為時間的問題我想這部分監察院其實也已經介入調查了那民眾也提告了我想我們這部分就持續的關心但是我還是要回到這件事情就是說因為學生數其實就是迅速的下降從117年我們看右邊這張圖它跟111年比起來學生數就是整整少了30萬30萬的人數那這樣子的話我們的應該這個停辦準則要有更細緻的一個規劃啦譬如說是學生人數啦或是優先改從剛剛講的分校的形式\n\n15\n00:05:13,664 --> 00:05:22,463\n或者是停辦的時程等等都應該有一個一定的標準所以這個在沒有完成被查程序之前學生留在原校就讀這件事情可不可行\n\n16\n00:05:24,119 --> 00:05:28,001\n委員這個如果以這個個案來講我們為何被即時獎證的表示這個庭辦應該還沒有確定那如果以這樣我們再來看看我們這個準則是不是在過渡過程當中應該要再做怎麼樣的去做一些修正我們做一個檢討\n\n17\n00:05:44,887 --> 00:06:13,974\n那再來就是說就是在特教我非常感謝就是也很肯定教育部部長潘部長過去這幾年就是其實有調降這個特教生的師生比然後也提供了相當當的資源跟資金來協助第一線的老師跟助理教助理員但是我覺得我們現在還是有一個實際上的問題就是說我們特教資源中心即將法制化那聽起來是對於要來協助學校做更好的一個特殊教育的一個推廣跟落實但是我看了一下這個薪資的問題就是說呢\n\n18\n00:06:14,674 --> 00:06:17,398\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會\n\n19\n00:06:23,506 --> 00:06:46,505\n這個深粉紅色的,如果一個同樣都是五年師資、年資的老師今天他如果加上主管加給及不休假獎勵一個老師他可以得到67萬在學校的特教組長他是可以得到67萬可是當他今天去了資源中心變成召集人的時候\n\n20\n00:06:47,185 --> 00:06:52,351\n最高66萬,整整比在學校少。一般老師留在學校61萬,到資源中心就是59萬,而且還沒有寒暑假。\n\n21\n00:07:05,907 --> 00:07:27,581\n那這些都是剛剛講有特教加級的數字所以我想要確認喔因為像這樣子的薪資喔到底要如何吸引老師們願意去資源中心因為這個到資源中心的老師應該是有更有經驗的去協助各地的老師的一些問題嘛所以第一個我們到底有沒有特教加級這是老師非常關注的\n\n22\n00:07:33,094 --> 00:07:41,996\n負招及人可以兼領兼職費嗎?原本行政院公告的草案第16條是有說他們可以資領專業領導費,每個月6千塊。\n\n23\n00:07:49,619 --> 00:08:11,124\n但是呢這個近期開說明會的時候呢草案文字卻變成從每個月的六千塊變成了五千塊所以呢這個召集人跟副召集人為什麼從專業領導費變成兼職費而且數字還降低了那這樣子會更沒有意願去特教資源中心那我認為這是一個非常重要的一個\n\n24\n00:08:11,964 --> 00:08:32,551\n資源來協助學校,所以我想要詢問這幾個問題,如果在這種狀況之下不能夠只有讓老師套熱情跟使命感去來協助,所以我們到底要如何來吸引特教老師前往服務呢?我跟委員報告這是也要謝謝我們大院在去年通過國教法跟特教法的修法才是讓\n\n25\n00:08:33,311 --> 00:08:44,103\n立法院第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教\n\n26\n00:08:51,551 --> 00:08:58,816\n立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第13屆第14屆第14屆第15屆第16屆第17屆第18屆第18屆第18屆第19屆第19屆第19屆第20屆第20屆第21屆第21屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆\n\n27\n00:09:21,331 --> 00:09:44,105\n對,但是現在看起來我們到底會不會有特教加級?我想這是老師非常關心的。特教加級能不能兼領兼職費?兼職費的金額到底是多少?我跟委員報告,我剛才為什麼會說它是整個地方政府的相關組成,不是單獨的單一。所以行政院這一次在核定的各方面應該是比較一致性的給教育部\n\n28\n00:09:44,985 --> 00:10:03,252\n給各縣市政府,不是單獨為單一項目。」如果說今天如果有單獨的我們可能要另外從這方面去考慮因為這個涉及教師待遇不是教育部單獨決定行政院當然也有它全面性的考慮這一次我要跟委員報告這已經是一個很大的突破也溝通了好幾個月\n\n29\n00:10:03,852 --> 00:10:29,160\n對,但是我想這還是會回到就是說那學老師為什麼要過去?老師就會變成沒有意願的志願就是嗎?是是,我要知道我想我跨這一步儘管我520之後不接我都把它當成一定要在這個之前把它完成現在也完成那我相信後續在各項的能不能再有一定的再努力是不是我們再接續啦好,那不好意思我再問10秒鐘就是說那這個到底什麼時候會公佈實施呢?這個本來就試用新學年開始了\n\n30\n00:10:31,461 --> 00:10:47,208\n新學年對,11、3學年度現在就是整個已經完備了現在我們會開始準備做公告但是真的開始試用就新學年度好,沒關係那我們會繼續討論這個好不好未來有哪些我們特別我想可以用這個基礎再走啦\n\n31\n00:10:48,052 --> 00:11:00,658\n對,但是我們會後續討論好了。這不要說以往這些縣市在找的這些什麼都沒有,只有一個名譽而已啦。我想這不對,應該法治化才對。對,理解。好,但是其實也是要解決啦。好,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6817\t10210\t教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育\n12723\t41926\t委員好部長好那就是因為上次已經有討論過有關於這個少子化的問題我們應該要提供給小學不管是大學包含是小學可能會有這個少子化的問題我們必須要做些因應嘛那其實在107年我們制定這個偏鄉教育條例的時候呢裡面有提到一個很重要關鍵就是穩定的師資所以讓學生們不要再問老師你會不會回來但是我想現在應該是要問學校你還會不會在\n43086\t70632\t所以在教育部的準則裡面有說同一鄉鎮市區只有一所國小或國中的時候呢或者是說到鄰近的學校有交通重大安全疑慮的時候不得停辦那根據第九條也有規定就是說合併或停辦應由地方主管機關依本法第十條等等等等進行評估等等之後呢來進送那個中央主管機關備查但是就上次我也其實講了這個談前國小他其實並沒有\n72699\t80255\t開學時直接要停辦轉走學生這件事有說要被查,現在進度在哪裡?已經被查了嗎?\n81104\t86065\t我跟委員報告謝謝委員這個當時我們那些有關要整併這個學校要就是要收拾起來的有一個很嚴謹的規則這個原則也就是要確保學生受教的權益目前因為他這個部分我所謂的這個學校比如說真的要終止要廢校了你一定要得到充分的溝通但是看起來沒有以這個\n108269\t118092\t彈犬國小社區並不是支持縣政府這樣的做法所以這個案子到目前教育部還沒核備但是學生都轉走了沒有被查有沒有被查就學生好像已經於事無補了而且我覺得還要提一個重點就是說這個學校才剛領完經費整修完圖書館\n125555\t135982\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n147748\t162490\t教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。 廢校這就嚴重這等於是說這個小孩本來才剛適應了這個學校他又要去適應個學校那我想部長一定非常了解孩子需要在一個穩定的秩序感才能夠有一個很好的學習表現嘛可是這樣子等於是讓這些孩子的受教權\n163351\t164231\t教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。\n192097\t214012\t這樣子停辦看起來好像就是首長自己決定而並不是爭著依循了家長、居民等等的意願所以我想要回到剛剛講的就是說我們還是要回到孩子的受教權這件事情那我們有沒有去了解這個連續停辦三所國小的這個問題是不是也有考慮協助他們來做分校的方式來進行呢?\n216074\t238371\t我跟委員報告當然縣市國民中小學那個整個新辦的相關的權責啦一地方制度法本來就在地方政府這個我想法制面的規範是如此但是教育部當時為什麼制定這個準則也做了一個要求這個當中完全認同委員剛才談到學校人數再少\n239614\t260509\t學生受教每一個學生受教的權益是一定要被確立的我們在為什麼要要求這個核備就是說當你比如說溝通完到底比如像以某個學校的這些學生你怎麼去安排他如果要到其他的學校那他的交通問題甚至有沒有其他應該有的配套這些都是我們備查裡面要求的要件\n261329\t283056\t對,但是我們現在的現況就是說他們其實都沒有完成,但是他也就已經做了這些事情嘛,那聽起來就是非常不合理。我也跟委員告告,不管地方政府或首長也要面對地方他自己的縣市民,因為我覺得教育部依法做事法監督,就是跟委員講的,像談錢國小我覺得程序還沒有做適當完備,所以教育部不會去核配他這個這個停辦案。\n285165\t313144\t好 那我想沒關係 因為時間的問題我想這部分監察院其實也已經介入調查了那民眾也提告了我想我們這部分就持續的關心但是我還是要回到這件事情就是說因為學生數其實就是迅速的下降從117年 我們看右邊這張圖它跟111年比起來學生數就是整整少了30萬30萬的人數那這樣子的話我們的應該這個停辦準則要有更細緻的一個規劃啦譬如說是學生人數啦或是優先改從剛剛講的分校的形式\n313664\t322463\t或者是停辦的時程等等都應該有一個一定的標準所以這個在沒有完成被查程序之前學生留在原校就讀這件事情可不可行\n324119\t328001\t委員這個如果以這個個案來講我們為何被即時獎證的表示這個庭辦應該還沒有確定那如果以這樣我們再來看看我們這個準則是不是在過渡過程當中應該要再做怎麼樣的去做一些修正我們做一個檢討\n344887\t373974\t那再來就是說就是在特教我非常感謝就是也很肯定教育部部長潘部長過去這幾年就是其實有調降這個特教生的師生比然後也提供了相當當的資源跟資金來協助第一線的老師跟助理教助理員但是我覺得我們現在還是有一個實際上的問題就是說我們特教資源中心即將法制化那聽起來是對於要來協助學校做更好的一個特殊教育的一個推廣跟落實但是我看了一下這個薪資的問題就是說呢\n374674\t377398\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會\n383506\t406505\t這個深粉紅色的,如果一個同樣都是五年師資、年資的老師今天他如果加上主管加給及不休假獎勵一個老師他可以得到67萬在學校的特教組長他是可以得到67萬可是當他今天去了資源中心變成召集人的時候\n407185\t412351\t最高66萬,整整比在學校少。一般老師留在學校61萬,到資源中心就是59萬,而且還沒有寒暑假。\n425907\t447581\t那這些都是剛剛講有特教加級的數字所以我想要確認喔因為像這樣子的薪資喔到底要如何吸引老師們願意去資源中心因為這個到資源中心的老師應該是有更有經驗的去協助各地的老師的一些問題嘛所以第一個我們到底有沒有特教加級這是老師非常關注的\n453094\t461996\t負招及人可以兼領兼職費嗎?原本行政院公告的草案第16條是有說他們可以資領專業領導費,每個月6千塊。\n469619\t491124\t但是呢這個近期開說明會的時候呢草案文字卻變成從每個月的六千塊變成了五千塊所以呢這個召集人跟副召集人為什麼從專業領導費變成兼職費而且數字還降低了那這樣子會更沒有意願去特教資源中心那我認為這是一個非常重要的一個\n491964\t512551\t資源來協助學校,所以我想要詢問這幾個問題,如果在這種狀況之下不能夠只有讓老師套熱情跟使命感去來協助,所以我們到底要如何來吸引特教老師前往服務呢?我跟委員報告這是也要謝謝我們大院在去年通過國教法跟特教法的修法才是讓\n513311\t524103\t立法院第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教\n531551\t538816\t立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第13屆第14屆第14屆第15屆第16屆第17屆第18屆第18屆第18屆第19屆第19屆第19屆第20屆第20屆第21屆第21屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆\n561331\t584105\t對,但是現在看起來我們到底會不會有特教加級?我想這是老師非常關心的。特教加級能不能兼領兼職費?兼職費的金額到底是多少?我跟委員報告,我剛才為什麼會說它是整個地方政府的相關組成,不是單獨的單一。所以行政院這一次在核定的各方面應該是比較一致性的給教育部\n584985\t603252\t給各縣市政府,不是單獨為單一項目。」如果說今天如果有單獨的我們可能要另外從這方面去考慮因為這個涉及教師待遇不是教育部單獨決定行政院當然也有它全面性的考慮這一次我要跟委員報告這已經是一個很大的突破也溝通了好幾個月\n603852\t629160\t對,但是我想這還是會回到就是說那學老師為什麼要過去?老師就會變成沒有意願的志願就是嗎?是是,我要知道我想我跨這一步儘管我520之後不接我都把它當成一定要在這個之前把它完成現在也完成那我相信後續在各項的能不能再有一定的再努力是不是我們再接續啦好,那不好意思我再問10秒鐘就是說那這個到底什麼時候會公佈實施呢?這個本來就試用新學年開始了\n631461\t647208\t新學年對,11、3學年度現在就是整個已經完備了現在我們會開始準備做公告但是真的開始試用就新學年度好,沒關係那我們會繼續討論這個好不好未來有哪些我們特別我想可以用這個基礎再走啦\n648052\t660658\t對,但是我們會後續討論好了。這不要說以往這些縣市在找的這些什麼都沒有,只有一個名譽而已啦。我想這不對,應該法治化才對。對,理解。好,但是其實也是要解決啦。好,謝謝。\n","txt":"教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育\n委員好部長好那就是因為上次已經有討論過有關於這個少子化的問題我們應該要提供給小學不管是大學包含是小學可能會有這個少子化的問題我們必須要做些因應嘛那其實在107年我們制定這個偏鄉教育條例的時候呢裡面有提到一個很重要關鍵就是穩定的師資所以讓學生們不要再問老師你會不會回來但是我想現在應該是要問學校你還會不會在\n所以在教育部的準則裡面有說同一鄉鎮市區只有一所國小或國中的時候呢或者是說到鄰近的學校有交通重大安全疑慮的時候不得停辦那根據第九條也有規定就是說合併或停辦應由地方主管機關依本法第十條等等等等進行評估等等之後呢來進送那個中央主管機關備查但是就上次我也其實講了這個談前國小他其實並沒有\n開學時直接要停辦轉走學生這件事有說要被查,現在進度在哪裡?已經被查了嗎?\n我跟委員報告謝謝委員這個當時我們那些有關要整併這個學校要就是要收拾起來的有一個很嚴謹的規則這個原則也就是要確保學生受教的權益目前因為他這個部分我所謂的這個學校比如說真的要終止要廢校了你一定要得到充分的溝通但是看起來沒有以這個\n彈犬國小社區並不是支持縣政府這樣的做法所以這個案子到目前教育部還沒核備但是學生都轉走了沒有被查有沒有被查就學生好像已經於事無補了而且我覺得還要提一個重點就是說這個學校才剛領完經費整修完圖書館\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。 廢校這就嚴重這等於是說這個小孩本來才剛適應了這個學校他又要去適應個學校那我想部長一定非常了解孩子需要在一個穩定的秩序感才能夠有一個很好的學習表現嘛可是這樣子等於是讓這些孩子的受教權\n教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。\n這樣子停辦看起來好像就是首長自己決定而並不是爭著依循了家長、居民等等的意願所以我想要回到剛剛講的就是說我們還是要回到孩子的受教權這件事情那我們有沒有去了解這個連續停辦三所國小的這個問題是不是也有考慮協助他們來做分校的方式來進行呢?\n我跟委員報告當然縣市國民中小學那個整個新辦的相關的權責啦一地方制度法本來就在地方政府這個我想法制面的規範是如此但是教育部當時為什麼制定這個準則也做了一個要求這個當中完全認同委員剛才談到學校人數再少\n學生受教每一個學生受教的權益是一定要被確立的我們在為什麼要要求這個核備就是說當你比如說溝通完到底比如像以某個學校的這些學生你怎麼去安排他如果要到其他的學校那他的交通問題甚至有沒有其他應該有的配套這些都是我們備查裡面要求的要件\n對,但是我們現在的現況就是說他們其實都沒有完成,但是他也就已經做了這些事情嘛,那聽起來就是非常不合理。我也跟委員告告,不管地方政府或首長也要面對地方他自己的縣市民,因為我覺得教育部依法做事法監督,就是跟委員講的,像談錢國小我覺得程序還沒有做適當完備,所以教育部不會去核配他這個這個停辦案。\n好 那我想沒關係 因為時間的問題我想這部分監察院其實也已經介入調查了那民眾也提告了我想我們這部分就持續的關心但是我還是要回到這件事情就是說因為學生數其實就是迅速的下降從117年 我們看右邊這張圖它跟111年比起來學生數就是整整少了30萬30萬的人數那這樣子的話我們的應該這個停辦準則要有更細緻的一個規劃啦譬如說是學生人數啦或是優先改從剛剛講的分校的形式\n或者是停辦的時程等等都應該有一個一定的標準所以這個在沒有完成被查程序之前學生留在原校就讀這件事情可不可行\n委員這個如果以這個個案來講我們為何被即時獎證的表示這個庭辦應該還沒有確定那如果以這樣我們再來看看我們這個準則是不是在過渡過程當中應該要再做怎麼樣的去做一些修正我們做一個檢討\n那再來就是說就是在特教我非常感謝就是也很肯定教育部部長潘部長過去這幾年就是其實有調降這個特教生的師生比然後也提供了相當當的資源跟資金來協助第一線的老師跟助理教助理員但是我覺得我們現在還是有一個實際上的問題就是說我們特教資源中心即將法制化那聽起來是對於要來協助學校做更好的一個特殊教育的一個推廣跟落實但是我看了一下這個薪資的問題就是說呢\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會\n這個深粉紅色的,如果一個同樣都是五年師資、年資的老師今天他如果加上主管加給及不休假獎勵一個老師他可以得到67萬在學校的特教組長他是可以得到67萬可是當他今天去了資源中心變成召集人的時候\n最高66萬,整整比在學校少。一般老師留在學校61萬,到資源中心就是59萬,而且還沒有寒暑假。\n那這些都是剛剛講有特教加級的數字所以我想要確認喔因為像這樣子的薪資喔到底要如何吸引老師們願意去資源中心因為這個到資源中心的老師應該是有更有經驗的去協助各地的老師的一些問題嘛所以第一個我們到底有沒有特教加級這是老師非常關注的\n負招及人可以兼領兼職費嗎?原本行政院公告的草案第16條是有說他們可以資領專業領導費,每個月6千塊。\n但是呢這個近期開說明會的時候呢草案文字卻變成從每個月的六千塊變成了五千塊所以呢這個召集人跟副召集人為什麼從專業領導費變成兼職費而且數字還降低了那這樣子會更沒有意願去特教資源中心那我認為這是一個非常重要的一個\n資源來協助學校,所以我想要詢問這幾個問題,如果在這種狀況之下不能夠只有讓老師套熱情跟使命感去來協助,所以我們到底要如何來吸引特教老師前往服務呢?我跟委員報告這是也要謝謝我們大院在去年通過國教法跟特教法的修法才是讓\n立法院第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教\n立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第13屆第14屆第14屆第15屆第16屆第17屆第18屆第18屆第18屆第19屆第19屆第19屆第20屆第20屆第21屆第21屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆\n對,但是現在看起來我們到底會不會有特教加級?我想這是老師非常關心的。特教加級能不能兼領兼職費?兼職費的金額到底是多少?我跟委員報告,我剛才為什麼會說它是整個地方政府的相關組成,不是單獨的單一。所以行政院這一次在核定的各方面應該是比較一致性的給教育部\n給各縣市政府,不是單獨為單一項目。」如果說今天如果有單獨的我們可能要另外從這方面去考慮因為這個涉及教師待遇不是教育部單獨決定行政院當然也有它全面性的考慮這一次我要跟委員報告這已經是一個很大的突破也溝通了好幾個月\n對,但是我想這還是會回到就是說那學老師為什麼要過去?老師就會變成沒有意願的志願就是嗎?是是,我要知道我想我跨這一步儘管我520之後不接我都把它當成一定要在這個之前把它完成現在也完成那我相信後續在各項的能不能再有一定的再努力是不是我們再接續啦好,那不好意思我再問10秒鐘就是說那這個到底什麼時候會公佈實施呢?這個本來就試用新學年開始了\n新學年對,11、3學年度現在就是整個已經完備了現在我們會開始準備做公告但是真的開始試用就新學年度好,沒關係那我們會繼續討論這個好不好未來有哪些我們特別我想可以用這個基礎再走啦\n對,但是我們會後續討論好了。這不要說以往這些縣市在找的這些什麼都沒有,只有一個名譽而已啦。我想這不對,應該法治化才對。對,理解。好,但是其實也是要解決啦。好,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.817 --> 00:10.210\n教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育\n\n00:12.723 --> 00:41.926\n委員好部長好那就是因為上次已經有討論過有關於這個少子化的問題我們應該要提供給小學不管是大學包含是小學可能會有這個少子化的問題我們必須要做些因應嘛那其實在107年我們制定這個偏鄉教育條例的時候呢裡面有提到一個很重要關鍵就是穩定的師資所以讓學生們不要再問老師你會不會回來但是我想現在應該是要問學校你還會不會在\n\n00:43.086 --> 01:10.632\n所以在教育部的準則裡面有說同一鄉鎮市區只有一所國小或國中的時候呢或者是說到鄰近的學校有交通重大安全疑慮的時候不得停辦那根據第九條也有規定就是說合併或停辦應由地方主管機關依本法第十條等等等等進行評估等等之後呢來進送那個中央主管機關備查但是就上次我也其實講了這個談前國小他其實並沒有\n\n01:12.699 --> 01:20.255\n開學時直接要停辦轉走學生這件事有說要被查,現在進度在哪裡?已經被查了嗎?\n\n01:21.104 --> 01:26.065\n我跟委員報告謝謝委員這個當時我們那些有關要整併這個學校要就是要收拾起來的有一個很嚴謹的規則這個原則也就是要確保學生受教的權益目前因為他這個部分我所謂的這個學校比如說真的要終止要廢校了你一定要得到充分的溝通但是看起來沒有以這個\n\n01:48.269 --> 01:58.092\n彈犬國小社區並不是支持縣政府這樣的做法所以這個案子到目前教育部還沒核備但是學生都轉走了沒有被查有沒有被查就學生好像已經於事無補了而且我覺得還要提一個重點就是說這個學校才剛領完經費整修完圖書館\n\n02:05.555 --> 02:15.982\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n\n02:27.748 --> 02:42.490\n教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。廢校這就嚴重這等於是說這個小孩本來才剛適應了這個學校他又要去適應個學校那我想部長一定非常了解孩子需要在一個穩定的秩序感才能夠有一個很好的學習表現嘛可是這樣子等於是讓這些孩子的受教權\n\n02:43.351 --> 02:44.231\n教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。\n\n03:12.097 --> 03:34.012\n這樣子停辦看起來好像就是首長自己決定而並不是爭著依循了家長、居民等等的意願所以我想要回到剛剛講的就是說我們還是要回到孩子的受教權這件事情那我們有沒有去了解這個連續停辦三所國小的這個問題是不是也有考慮協助他們來做分校的方式來進行呢?\n\n03:36.074 --> 03:58.371\n我跟委員報告當然縣市國民中小學那個整個新辦的相關的權責啦一地方制度法本來就在地方政府這個我想法制面的規範是如此但是教育部當時為什麼制定這個準則也做了一個要求這個當中完全認同委員剛才談到學校人數再少\n\n03:59.614 --> 04:20.509\n學生受教每一個學生受教的權益是一定要被確立的我們在為什麼要要求這個核備就是說當你比如說溝通完到底比如像以某個學校的這些學生你怎麼去安排他如果要到其他的學校那他的交通問題甚至有沒有其他應該有的配套這些都是我們備查裡面要求的要件\n\n04:21.329 --> 04:43.056\n對,但是我們現在的現況就是說他們其實都沒有完成,但是他也就已經做了這些事情嘛,那聽起來就是非常不合理。我也跟委員告告,不管地方政府或首長也要面對地方他自己的縣市民,因為我覺得教育部依法做事法監督,就是跟委員講的,像談錢國小我覺得程序還沒有做適當完備,所以教育部不會去核配他這個這個停辦案。\n\n04:45.165 --> 05:13.144\n好那我想沒關係因為時間的問題我想這部分監察院其實也已經介入調查了那民眾也提告了我想我們這部分就持續的關心但是我還是要回到這件事情就是說因為學生數其實就是迅速的下降從117年我們看右邊這張圖它跟111年比起來學生數就是整整少了30萬30萬的人數那這樣子的話我們的應該這個停辦準則要有更細緻的一個規劃啦譬如說是學生人數啦或是優先改從剛剛講的分校的形式\n\n05:13.664 --> 05:22.463\n或者是停辦的時程等等都應該有一個一定的標準所以這個在沒有完成被查程序之前學生留在原校就讀這件事情可不可行\n\n05:24.119 --> 05:28.001\n委員這個如果以這個個案來講我們為何被即時獎證的表示這個庭辦應該還沒有確定那如果以這樣我們再來看看我們這個準則是不是在過渡過程當中應該要再做怎麼樣的去做一些修正我們做一個檢討\n\n05:44.887 --> 06:13.974\n那再來就是說就是在特教我非常感謝就是也很肯定教育部部長潘部長過去這幾年就是其實有調降這個特教生的師生比然後也提供了相當當的資源跟資金來協助第一線的老師跟助理教助理員但是我覺得我們現在還是有一個實際上的問題就是說我們特教資源中心即將法制化那聽起來是對於要來協助學校做更好的一個特殊教育的一個推廣跟落實但是我看了一下這個薪資的問題就是說呢\n\n06:14.674 --> 06:17.398\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會\n\n06:23.506 --> 06:46.505\n這個深粉紅色的,如果一個同樣都是五年師資、年資的老師今天他如果加上主管加給及不休假獎勵一個老師他可以得到67萬在學校的特教組長他是可以得到67萬可是當他今天去了資源中心變成召集人的時候\n\n06:47.185 --> 06:52.351\n最高66萬,整整比在學校少。一般老師留在學校61萬,到資源中心就是59萬,而且還沒有寒暑假。\n\n07:05.907 --> 07:27.581\n那這些都是剛剛講有特教加級的數字所以我想要確認喔因為像這樣子的薪資喔到底要如何吸引老師們願意去資源中心因為這個到資源中心的老師應該是有更有經驗的去協助各地的老師的一些問題嘛所以第一個我們到底有沒有特教加級這是老師非常關注的\n\n07:33.094 --> 07:41.996\n負招及人可以兼領兼職費嗎?原本行政院公告的草案第16條是有說他們可以資領專業領導費,每個月6千塊。\n\n07:49.619 --> 08:11.124\n但是呢這個近期開說明會的時候呢草案文字卻變成從每個月的六千塊變成了五千塊所以呢這個召集人跟副召集人為什麼從專業領導費變成兼職費而且數字還降低了那這樣子會更沒有意願去特教資源中心那我認為這是一個非常重要的一個\n\n08:11.964 --> 08:32.551\n資源來協助學校,所以我想要詢問這幾個問題,如果在這種狀況之下不能夠只有讓老師套熱情跟使命感去來協助,所以我們到底要如何來吸引特教老師前往服務呢?我跟委員報告這是也要謝謝我們大院在去年通過國教法跟特教法的修法才是讓\n\n08:33.311 --> 08:44.103\n立法院第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教\n\n08:51.551 --> 08:58.816\n立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第13屆第14屆第14屆第15屆第16屆第17屆第18屆第18屆第18屆第19屆第19屆第19屆第20屆第20屆第21屆第21屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆\n\n09:21.331 --> 09:44.105\n對,但是現在看起來我們到底會不會有特教加級?我想這是老師非常關心的。特教加級能不能兼領兼職費?兼職費的金額到底是多少?我跟委員報告,我剛才為什麼會說它是整個地方政府的相關組成,不是單獨的單一。所以行政院這一次在核定的各方面應該是比較一致性的給教育部\n\n09:44.985 --> 10:03.252\n給各縣市政府,不是單獨為單一項目。」如果說今天如果有單獨的我們可能要另外從這方面去考慮因為這個涉及教師待遇不是教育部單獨決定行政院當然也有它全面性的考慮這一次我要跟委員報告這已經是一個很大的突破也溝通了好幾個月\n\n10:03.852 --> 10:29.160\n對,但是我想這還是會回到就是說那學老師為什麼要過去?老師就會變成沒有意願的志願就是嗎?是是,我要知道我想我跨這一步儘管我520之後不接我都把它當成一定要在這個之前把它完成現在也完成那我相信後續在各項的能不能再有一定的再努力是不是我們再接續啦好,那不好意思我再問10秒鐘就是說那這個到底什麼時候會公佈實施呢?這個本來就試用新學年開始了\n\n10:31.461 --> 10:47.208\n新學年對,11、3學年度現在就是整個已經完備了現在我們會開始準備做公告但是真的開始試用就新學年度好,沒關係那我們會繼續討論這個好不好未來有哪些我們特別我想可以用這個基礎再走啦\n\n10:48.052 --> 11:00.658\n對,但是我們會後續討論好了。這不要說以往這些縣市在找的這些什麼都沒有,只有一個名譽而已啦。我想這不對,應該法治化才對。對,理解。好,但是其實也是要解決啦。好,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.817,"end":10.21,"text":"教育及文化委員會第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育"},{"start":12.723,"end":41.926,"text":"委員好部長好那就是因為上次已經有討論過有關於這個少子化的問題我們應該要提供給小學不管是大學包含是小學可能會有這個少子化的問題我們必須要做些因應嘛那其實在107年我們制定這個偏鄉教育條例的時候呢裡面有提到一個很重要關鍵就是穩定的師資所以讓學生們不要再問老師你會不會回來但是我想現在應該是要問學校你還會不會在"},{"start":43.086,"end":70.632,"text":"所以在教育部的準則裡面有說同一鄉鎮市區只有一所國小或國中的時候呢或者是說到鄰近的學校有交通重大安全疑慮的時候不得停辦那根據第九條也有規定就是說合併或停辦應由地方主管機關依本法第十條等等等等進行評估等等之後呢來進送那個中央主管機關備查但是就上次我也其實講了這個談前國小他其實並沒有"},{"start":72.699,"end":80.255,"text":"開學時直接要停辦轉走學生這件事有說要被查,現在進度在哪裡?已經被查了嗎?"},{"start":81.104,"end":86.065,"text":"我跟委員報告謝謝委員這個當時我們那些有關要整併這個學校要就是要收拾起來的有一個很嚴謹的規則這個原則也就是要確保學生受教的權益目前因為他這個部分我所謂的這個學校比如說真的要終止要廢校了你一定要得到充分的溝通但是看起來沒有以這個"},{"start":108.269,"end":118.092,"text":"彈犬國小社區並不是支持縣政府這樣的做法所以這個案子到目前教育部還沒核備但是學生都轉走了沒有被查有沒有被查就學生好像已經於事無補了而且我覺得還要提一個重點就是說這個學校才剛領完經費整修完圖書館"},{"start":125.555,"end":135.982,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會"},{"start":147.748,"end":162.49,"text":"教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。 廢校這就嚴重這等於是說這個小孩本來才剛適應了這個學校他又要去適應個學校那我想部長一定非常了解孩子需要在一個穩定的秩序感才能夠有一個很好的學習表現嘛可是這樣子等於是讓這些孩子的受教權"},{"start":163.351,"end":164.231,"text":"教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":192.097,"end":214.012,"text":"這樣子停辦看起來好像就是首長自己決定而並不是爭著依循了家長、居民等等的意願所以我想要回到剛剛講的就是說我們還是要回到孩子的受教權這件事情那我們有沒有去了解這個連續停辦三所國小的這個問題是不是也有考慮協助他們來做分校的方式來進行呢?"},{"start":216.074,"end":238.371,"text":"我跟委員報告當然縣市國民中小學那個整個新辦的相關的權責啦一地方制度法本來就在地方政府這個我想法制面的規範是如此但是教育部當時為什麼制定這個準則也做了一個要求這個當中完全認同委員剛才談到學校人數再少"},{"start":239.614,"end":260.509,"text":"學生受教每一個學生受教的權益是一定要被確立的我們在為什麼要要求這個核備就是說當你比如說溝通完到底比如像以某個學校的這些學生你怎麼去安排他如果要到其他的學校那他的交通問題甚至有沒有其他應該有的配套這些都是我們備查裡面要求的要件"},{"start":261.329,"end":283.056,"text":"對,但是我們現在的現況就是說他們其實都沒有完成,但是他也就已經做了這些事情嘛,那聽起來就是非常不合理。我也跟委員告告,不管地方政府或首長也要面對地方他自己的縣市民,因為我覺得教育部依法做事法監督,就是跟委員講的,像談錢國小我覺得程序還沒有做適當完備,所以教育部不會去核配他這個這個停辦案。"},{"start":285.165,"end":313.144,"text":"好 那我想沒關係 因為時間的問題我想這部分監察院其實也已經介入調查了那民眾也提告了我想我們這部分就持續的關心但是我還是要回到這件事情就是說因為學生數其實就是迅速的下降從117年 我們看右邊這張圖它跟111年比起來學生數就是整整少了30萬30萬的人數那這樣子的話我們的應該這個停辦準則要有更細緻的一個規劃啦譬如說是學生人數啦或是優先改從剛剛講的分校的形式"},{"start":313.664,"end":322.463,"text":"或者是停辦的時程等等都應該有一個一定的標準所以這個在沒有完成被查程序之前學生留在原校就讀這件事情可不可行"},{"start":324.119,"end":328.001,"text":"委員這個如果以這個個案來講我們為何被即時獎證的表示這個庭辦應該還沒有確定那如果以這樣我們再來看看我們這個準則是不是在過渡過程當中應該要再做怎麼樣的去做一些修正我們做一個檢討"},{"start":344.887,"end":373.974,"text":"那再來就是說就是在特教我非常感謝就是也很肯定教育部部長潘部長過去這幾年就是其實有調降這個特教生的師生比然後也提供了相當當的資源跟資金來協助第一線的老師跟助理教助理員但是我覺得我們現在還是有一個實際上的問題就是說我們特教資源中心即將法制化那聽起來是對於要來協助學校做更好的一個特殊教育的一個推廣跟落實但是我看了一下這個薪資的問題就是說呢"},{"start":374.674,"end":377.398,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會"},{"start":383.506,"end":406.505,"text":"這個深粉紅色的,如果一個同樣都是五年師資、年資的老師今天他如果加上主管加給及不休假獎勵一個老師他可以得到67萬在學校的特教組長他是可以得到67萬可是當他今天去了資源中心變成召集人的時候"},{"start":407.185,"end":412.351,"text":"最高66萬,整整比在學校少。一般老師留在學校61萬,到資源中心就是59萬,而且還沒有寒暑假。"},{"start":425.907,"end":447.581,"text":"那這些都是剛剛講有特教加級的數字所以我想要確認喔因為像這樣子的薪資喔到底要如何吸引老師們願意去資源中心因為這個到資源中心的老師應該是有更有經驗的去協助各地的老師的一些問題嘛所以第一個我們到底有沒有特教加級這是老師非常關注的"},{"start":453.094,"end":461.996,"text":"負招及人可以兼領兼職費嗎?原本行政院公告的草案第16條是有說他們可以資領專業領導費,每個月6千塊。"},{"start":469.619,"end":491.124,"text":"但是呢這個近期開說明會的時候呢草案文字卻變成從每個月的六千塊變成了五千塊所以呢這個召集人跟副召集人為什麼從專業領導費變成兼職費而且數字還降低了那這樣子會更沒有意願去特教資源中心那我認為這是一個非常重要的一個"},{"start":491.964,"end":512.551,"text":"資源來協助學校,所以我想要詢問這幾個問題,如果在這種狀況之下不能夠只有讓老師套熱情跟使命感去來協助,所以我們到底要如何來吸引特教老師前往服務呢?我跟委員報告這是也要謝謝我們大院在去年通過國教法跟特教法的修法才是讓"},{"start":513.311,"end":524.103,"text":"立法院第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教"},{"start":531.551,"end":538.816,"text":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第13屆第14屆第14屆第15屆第16屆第17屆第18屆第18屆第18屆第19屆第19屆第19屆第20屆第20屆第21屆第21屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆第22屆"},{"start":561.331,"end":584.105,"text":"對,但是現在看起來我們到底會不會有特教加級?我想這是老師非常關心的。特教加級能不能兼領兼職費?兼職費的金額到底是多少?我跟委員報告,我剛才為什麼會說它是整個地方政府的相關組成,不是單獨的單一。所以行政院這一次在核定的各方面應該是比較一致性的給教育部"},{"start":584.985,"end":603.252,"text":"給各縣市政府,不是單獨為單一項目。」如果說今天如果有單獨的我們可能要另外從這方面去考慮因為這個涉及教師待遇不是教育部單獨決定行政院當然也有它全面性的考慮這一次我要跟委員報告這已經是一個很大的突破也溝通了好幾個月"},{"start":603.852,"end":629.16,"text":"對,但是我想這還是會回到就是說那學老師為什麼要過去?老師就會變成沒有意願的志願就是嗎?是是,我要知道我想我跨這一步儘管我520之後不接我都把它當成一定要在這個之前把它完成現在也完成那我相信後續在各項的能不能再有一定的再努力是不是我們再接續啦好,那不好意思我再問10秒鐘就是說那這個到底什麼時候會公佈實施呢?這個本來就試用新學年開始了"},{"start":631.461,"end":647.208,"text":"新學年對,11、3學年度現在就是整個已經完備了現在我們會開始準備做公告但是真的開始試用就新學年度好,沒關係那我們會繼續討論這個好不好未來有哪些我們特別我想可以用這個基礎再走啦"},{"start":648.052,"end":660.658,"text":"對,但是我們會後續討論好了。這不要說以往這些縣市在找的這些什麼都沒有,只有一個名譽而已啦。我想這不對,應該法治化才對。對,理解。好,但是其實也是要解決啦。好,謝謝。"}]}}}}