{"id":152083,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152083","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db10160bf17eeed8519455ccb8302deb5eb55be169921a0a7170251c279eccb29ab5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡其昌","委員發言時間":"10:56:04 - 11:06:48","影片長度":"00:10:44","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會、勞動部就「公共工程職業安全衛生改善暨降低職業災害辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院公共工程委員會預算凍結案計7案。）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-10"},"duration":644,"end_time":"2024-05-02T11:06:48+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T10:56:04+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":381,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（10時56分）謝謝主席，請吳主委。"],["主席：請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員澤成：委員你好。"],["蔡委員其昌：主委早。首先謝謝主委這些年來對國家的貢獻，在這裡先跟你說一聲謝謝。接下來，主委，畢竟你還在位子上，所以本席該建議、該講的話，還是必須要善盡立法委員的職責。長期以來，本席過去擔任副院長期間，很多的議題大概都在副院長辦公室進行一些協調或協商，本席過去比較少有機會可以在這裡，所以上次就教主委其實就是針對循環經濟的問題，公共工程委員會在相關工程的廢棄物等等、包括刨除物應該有永續的概念，在循環經濟的架構底下進行處理。","剛剛我做了一個臨時提案，這個臨時提案的主軸都是一樣，都是針對永續。我看了一下相關的數字，公共工程委員會政府採購的綠色採購金額部分只有126億，我剛剛也請助理去瞭解一下。主委，這126億主要的綠色採購在公共工程委員會項下主要都做哪些採購？"],["吳主任委員澤成：就這個部分，我們鼓勵各機關必須要考慮包括各方面的設計、建材、工法、整體的規劃，應該從源頭去考量清楚。"],["蔡委員其昌：我的意思是，我們統計出來是126億，這126億的金額實在是很低，是不是有一些項目有做綠色採購的鼓勵，但是沒有放進去？我是問你這個問題。"],["吳主任委員澤成：這個有可能，所以我們必須來檢視。"],["蔡委員其昌：幕僚有提供主委答案嗎？因為早上助理告訴我，好像只有碳粉夾，是不是，主委？"],["吳主任委員澤成：這是一些使用物品……"],["蔡委員其昌：對。"],["吳主任委員澤成：我個人的看法是，更重要的是在工程，即我剛剛講的規劃設計，必須考量使用的材料……"],["蔡委員其昌：主委，我們一項一項來，沒有關係，我等一下會再請教綠建築的部分。綠色採購金額只有126億，對本席來講，政府的力道很低。所以我問了一下這126億買了什麼？大部分都集中在碳粉夾或一些商品，看起來占政府採購的金額並不大。我為什麼提這個臨時提案？公共工程委員會跟環境部對於政府所有部門在這方面的管理不能僅止於紙張、碳粉夾，而是應該對所有政府部門在綠色採購上做整體性的數字統計。如果沒有數字，我們就無法管理，就無法訂定目標，所以本席做這個臨時提案，而交通委員會朝野立委都同意了。意思就是說接下來工程會跟環境部應該統計政府到底做了多少綠色採購，包括今年做了多少，以及明年成長1%、成長2%等等，相關綠色採購也應該逐年成長，然後去檢視遇到的障礙是什麼。若沒有這些數據的統計跟管理，沒有辦法訂定政策跟目標嘛！主委，這樣你懂我的意思嗎？"],["吳主任委員澤成：我同意。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以本席要求要訂這個，看起來工程會也沒有意見嘛！只是說加了環境部。這是本席覺得第一個應該做的，是在綠色採購上面。","第二個，主委剛剛也提到，包括建築、建材等等。當然現在公有建築的綠建築標章是內政部在發，可是內政部在發的是發給建築，也就是審核該建築物有沒有符合綠色建築，若有，就給予綠色建築標章，但這是由業者決定要做這件事，然後透過內政部檢查給予合格標章。那公共工程委員會要不要鼓勵？或者有沒有想出什麼樣的政策目標，能讓綠建築申請的人變多？主委，你有沒有什麼想法可以增加綠建築申請數？針對綠建築，你看內政部的資料，108年191件，到了112年也不過218件。蔡總統宣布2050年要達到淨零碳排的時間是在110年，但你看，111年、112年其實都比110年的件數來得少。所以本席的意思是公共工程委員會應該訂定目標嘛！對於綠色採購、綠色建築都應該有明確的方向跟目標。主委，你的看法呢？"],["吳主任委員澤成：我從兩方面跟委員報告，從各機關的採購來看，也許會走向剛剛講的紙張、碳粉等等；而就工程來講，應該朝著另外一個層面，也就是怎麼樣從工程本身的設計、規劃去考量。"],["蔡委員其昌：對。"],["吳主任委員澤成：包括材料的選擇……"],["蔡委員其昌：沒有錯，這些我都支持，但有沒有方法？有沒有方法讓這個數字可以開始往上走，而不是一直停頓在這裡？"],["吳主任委員澤成：我覺得可以從開始選商的時候就納入評選的要求。"],["蔡委員其昌：好。","因為主委要卸任了，我希望公共工程委員會的同仁在新主委來了之後還是要告訴他，本席的關注焦點就是這個，這是我對公共工程委員會認為最重要的，我未來4年都會問這個題目，就是SDGs永續循環經濟，就只有這個題目而已啦！所以對於新來的主委，你們要告訴他趕快訂目標，本席每一年都在追蹤、考察你們有沒有照這樣的目標去做。謝謝主委。","接下來，請職安署的鄒署長。"],["主席：鄒署長。"],["鄒署長子廉：委員好。"],["蔡委員其昌：署長好。署長，在我們的永續發展目標裡面，勞動部有做自我檢視嘛！其中核心目標八是促進包容且永續的經濟成長，在具體目標裡面，有促進工作環境安全及保障女性勞工參與工會權益，也訂出了對應指標，對吧？"],["鄒署長子廉：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：我看了一下這項數字，因為時間有限，我看了一下職災死亡的千人率，我不管高跟低，只問一個問題，就是看起來沒有明顯的下降趨勢，署長有沒有什麼目標或方法？"],["鄒署長子廉：謝謝委員關注這個議題，其實我們也訂了中長程計畫，2030年是永續發展的階段目標，部長有親自指示我們要在2030年達到職災減半，特別是死亡的部分。"],["蔡委員其昌：沒錯。"],["鄒署長子廉：所以我們會來努力。訂了目標後，我們確實壓力很大，但是應該進步就要進步，所以我們具體承諾社會在2030年重大職災死亡人數要減半。"],["蔡委員其昌：沒錯，我也知道要這樣。那剩下6年嘛！"],["鄒署長子廉：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：針對這6年的路徑一定要出來，不然數字不會到了2030年就忽然自動減半，這不可能！我是很擔心，因為看趨勢，雖然只有2年，但是照這個趨勢看起來就沒有下降，邏輯上應該是要緩慢下降，但看起來這兩年並沒有這樣的趨勢。所以本席必須在這個質詢臺上監督，同時期盼勞動部對於達到這個數字一定要有具體路徑出來，不然不會到了2030年忽然之間死亡人數就減半嘛！","我知道有勞檢、取締等等，但除此之外，其實應該建立起另外的思維，有沒有可能用什麼樣的方式可以給我們更大的利器跟這些營造廠商合作，透過什麼樣的教育方式或提醒方式，或是有什麼樣的機制，除了事後的取締之外，當然這也很重要，因為有些人就是很賴皮，什麼都不做，那當然要嚴格處分，這點本席沒有意見，對於這種廠商要處理。但還是有很多人其實願意配合，只是他或許方法不好、不知道該怎麼做，那勞動部應該可以主動、積極地為這些人想出一套方法，對於壞學生有壞學生的處分方式，面對好學生也有好學生的方法，如果把好學生教得更好，或許這個數字就會逐年下降。本席談的路徑其實是這個概念，也就是要有一些具體作法，因為在沒有聯合國SGDs的時候，我們還是在這樣做嘛！有了這個之後，我們的目標要把數字減半，相關方式、路徑就要早早開始動。署長同意嘛！"],["鄒署長子廉：非常謝謝委員指教。我們的重點應該是跨部會合作、公私協力，因為只有做勞檢不會達到目標，我們認為這是不可能的。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，沒有錯。"],["鄒署長子廉：所以要從整個上、中、下游，從源頭的設計到最後執行，對好的給予鼓勵，對不好的給予課責，成為整體上的循環。"],["蔡委員其昌：處罰，沒錯。所以處罰是其中一塊啦！這點不可能停嘛！也不應該停嘛！但你要另闢一條路徑，死亡人數才可以下降，好不好？謝謝。"],["鄒署長子廉：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","蔡其昌委員發言完畢。","現在請張智倫委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":166,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-10","speakers":["李昆澤","林國成","黃健豪","陳素月","魯明哲","何欣純","徐富癸","林沛祥","蔡其昌","許智傑","張智倫","黃國昌","林俊憲","游顥","羅智強","洪孟楷","王鴻薇","邱若華","廖先翔"],"page_start":123,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會、勞動部就「公共工程職業安全衛生改善暨降低職業災害辦理情\n形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院公共工程委員會預\n算凍結案計7案","agenda_id":"1133901_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152083","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152083","tool":"pyannote","id":"152083-pyannote"},"job_id":"CRjk6X5N6GDfCMjX","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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0.921}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 88.786, \"end\": 89.026, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 89.026, \"end\": 89.306, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 89.306, \"end\": 89.486, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 89.486, \"end\": 89.646, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 89.646, \"end\": 89.806, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 89.806, \"end\": 89.966, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 89.966, \"end\": 90.147, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 90.147, \"end\": 90.167, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"購\"}]}, {\"start\": 92.872, \"end\": 117.142, \"text\": \"這個部分我們是鼓勵各機關他必須要去考慮包括各方面的這一個設計的考量他的建材、他的工法還有他的規劃的一個整體的考量應該從這樣就去把它去源頭就把它考慮我的意思是說我們統計126億這126億\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 92.872, \"end\": 93.012, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 93.012, \"end\": 93.212, 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{\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 283.359, \"end\": 283.559, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 283.559, \"end\": 283.779, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"色\", \"start\": 283.779, \"end\": 283.919, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 283.919, \"end\": 284.159, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"築\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 284.159, \"end\": 284.539, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"章\", \"start\": 284.539, \"end\": 284.759, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 284.759, \"end\": 285.339, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 285.339, \"end\": 285.499, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 285.499, \"end\": 286.839, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 286.839, \"end\": 287.04, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 287.04, \"end\": 287.76, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 287.76, \"end\": 287.88, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 287.88, \"end\": 288.08, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 288.08, \"end\": 288.34, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 288.34, \"end\": 288.54, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 288.54, \"end\": 288.7, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 288.7, \"end\": 288.72, \"score\": 0.573}]}, {\"start\": 289.602, \"end\": 302.761, \"text\": \"然後呢透過內政部的檢查給予合格標章那公共工程委員會要不要鼓勵或者我們有想出什麼樣的這個政策目標讓綠建築去申請的人變多主委\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 289.602, \"end\": 289.782, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 289.782, \"end\": 289.983, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 289.983, \"end\": 290.223, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 290.223, \"end\": 290.784, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 290.784, \"end\": 290.984, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 290.984, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 299.376, \"end\": 299.536, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 299.536, \"end\": 299.697, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 299.697, \"end\": 301.179, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 301.179, \"end\": 301.72, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"築\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 301.72, \"end\": 302.0, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"申\", \"start\": 302.0, \"end\": 302.501, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 302.501, \"end\": 302.601, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 302.601, \"end\": 302.701, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 302.701, \"end\": 302.721, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 302.721, \"end\": 302.741, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 302.741, \"end\": 302.761, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 306.052, \"end\": 313.498, \"text\": \"你有沒有什麼想法可以增加綠建築因為那個綠建築你看內政部的這個資料108年有191件到了112年也不過218件那蔡總統宣布2050淨零碳白的時間是在110年你看111年、112年其實都比110年件數來得少\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 306.052, \"end\": 306.152, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 306.152, \"end\": 306.212, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 306.212, \"end\": 306.312, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 306.312, \"end\": 306.432, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 306.432, \"end\": 306.733, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 306.733, \"end\": 306.993, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 306.993, \"end\": 307.193, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 307.193, \"end\": 307.333, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 307.333, \"end\": 307.573, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 307.573, \"end\": 307.793, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 307.793, \"end\": 308.274, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, 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\"text\": \"所以本席的意思是說公共工程委員會應該訂定目標嘛對於綠色採購、綠色建築我們都應該有明確的這個方向跟目標主委你的看法呢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 331.294, \"end\": 331.434, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 331.434, \"end\": 332.155, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 332.155, \"end\": 332.335, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 332.335, \"end\": 332.435, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 332.435, \"end\": 332.535, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 332.535, \"end\": 332.655, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 332.655, \"end\": 332.835, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 332.835, \"end\": 333.135, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 333.135, \"end\": 333.295, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 333.295, \"end\": 333.375, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 333.375, \"end\": 333.435, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 333.435, \"end\": 333.616, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 333.616, \"end\": 334.376, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"訂\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 334.376, \"end\": 334.556, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 334.556, \"end\": 335.036, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 335.036, \"end\": 336.157, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 336.157, \"end\": 336.317, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"色\", \"start\": 336.317, \"end\": 337.418, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"色\", \"start\": 337.418, \"end\": 337.618, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 337.618, \"end\": 338.258, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"築\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 338.258, \"end\": 338.539, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 338.539, \"end\": 338.999, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 338.999, \"end\": 339.159, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 339.159, \"end\": 339.639, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 339.639, \"end\": 340.04, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 340.04, \"end\": 340.22, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 340.22, \"end\": 340.44, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 340.44, \"end\": 340.54, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 340.54, \"end\": 341.24, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 341.24, \"end\": 341.34, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 341.34, \"end\": 341.42, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 341.42, \"end\": 341.501, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 341.501, \"end\": 341.601, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 341.601, \"end\": 341.781, 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0.5}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 474.017, \"end\": 474.057, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 474.057, \"end\": 474.077, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 474.077, \"end\": 474.097, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 474.097, \"end\": 474.117, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 474.117, \"end\": 474.157, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 474.157, \"end\": 474.277, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 474.277, \"end\": 474.317, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 474.317, \"end\": 474.437, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 474.437, \"end\": 474.597, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 474.597, \"end\": 474.677, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 474.677, \"end\": 474.697, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 474.697, \"end\": 474.717, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 635.786, \"end\": 635.806, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,129 --> 00:00:03,252\n主席請吳主委請吳主委主委早首先謝謝主委這些年來對國家的貢獻所以在這裡先跟你說一聲謝謝那接下來我想\n\n2\n00:00:23,448 --> 00:00:49,034\n主委畢竟你還在位置上所以本席該建議該講的話我還是必須要善盡我立法委員的職責本席在長期以來因為過去擔任副院長期間大概很多的議題都在副院長的辦公室我們進行一些協調或協商那本席過去比較少有機會可以在這裡所以上次就教主委其實就是\n\n3\n00:00:50,034 --> 00:00:52,777\n今天我剛剛做了一個臨時提案,這個臨時提案其實主軸都是一樣,都是永續\n\n4\n00:01:12,516 --> 00:01:30,167\n這個就是說我看了一下那個數字我們公共工程委員會這個政府採購所謂綠色採購金額的部分只有126億那我剛剛也請助理去了解一下這個126億主要的綠色採購在公共工程委員會向下主要都做哪些採購\n\n5\n00:01:32,872 --> 00:01:57,142\n這個部分我們是鼓勵各機關他必須要去考慮包括各方面的這一個設計的考量他的建材、他的工法還有他的規劃的一個整體的考量應該從這樣就去把它去源頭就把它考慮我的意思是說我們統計126億這126億\n\n6\n00:02:01,888 --> 00:02:30,151\n數字這個金額實在是很低啦那我的意思是說這120億是不是有一些你的項目是沒有放進去綠色有一些我們做綠色採購的鼓勵但是沒有放進去我的意思問你這個問題我覺得這個有可能我們必須來再檢視對幕僚你們有提供給主委這個答案嗎就是早上助理告訴我好像只有碳粉匣啦\n\n7\n00:02:31,468 --> 00:02:50,394\n是不是主委我覺得這些是使用的一些物品那我個人的看法更重要的就是在工程的剛剛我講的規劃設計來講就必須考量它的使用的材料主委我們一項一項來沒有關係我等一下會再請教那個綠建築的部分就綠色採購金額只有126億其實對本期來講這個政府的力道很低\n\n8\n00:03:01,357 --> 00:03:27,909\n那我問了一下126億我們買什麼那大部分都集中在什麼碳粉匣啦或者一些部分商品看起來他佔政府採購的金額裡面看起來並不大那我的意思為什麼我做了這個臨時提案我的意思是說公共工程委員會跟環境部對於政府所有部門不只指於什麼紙張啊、碳粉匣啊\n\n9\n00:03:29,170 --> 00:03:44,865\n應該對於所有政府部門在綠色採購上面我們應該做一個整體性的數字的統計如果我們沒有數字我們就無法管理我們就無法訂定目標所以本席的意思是說我做這個臨時提案\n\n10\n00:03:46,286 --> 00:04:04,198\n交通委員會、草野立委都同意意思就是說接下來工程會跟環境部應該對於政府到底我們做了多少綠色採購今年做了多少我們明年成長1%成長2%逐年我們要把綠色採購成長那我們遇到的障礙是什麼\n\n11\n00:04:04,838 --> 00:04:23,297\n就沒有這些數據的統計跟管理我們沒有辦法訂定政策跟目標嘛主委這樣你懂我的意思所以本席要求要訂這個看起來公共工程會也沒有意見嘛只是加了環境部所以這是本席第一個我覺得應該來做在綠色採購上面第二個呢\n\n12\n00:04:24,755 --> 00:04:48,720\n在剛剛主委有去提到包括建築嘛建材啊等等那我們現在這個當然公有建築物的公有建築的所謂這個綠建築的標章這個是內政部在發啦但是內政部在發是發給你說你這個建築物有沒有符合綠色建築有我就給你綠色建築的標章嘛但是這個是他決定要做這件事情\n\n13\n00:04:49,602 --> 00:05:02,761\n然後呢透過內政部的檢查給予合格標章那公共工程委員會要不要鼓勵或者我們有想出什麼樣的這個政策目標讓綠建築去申請的人變多主委\n\n14\n00:05:06,052 --> 00:05:13,498\n你有沒有什麼想法可以增加綠建築因為那個綠建築你看內政部的這個資料108年有191件到了112年也不過218件那蔡總統宣布2050淨零碳白的時間是在110年你看111年、112年其實都比110年件數來得少\n\n15\n00:05:31,294 --> 00:05:41,961\n所以本席的意思是說公共工程委員會應該訂定目標嘛對於綠色採購、綠色建築我們都應該有明確的這個方向跟目標主委你的看法呢\n\n16\n00:05:42,435 --> 00:06:11,504\n我覺得兩方面跟委員報告那麼從各機關的採購也許會走向剛剛講的紙張、碳粉等等那就工程來講應該朝著另外一個層面怎麼樣從這一個工程本身的設計規劃去考量對包括材料的選擇沒有錯這個我都支持有沒有方法有沒有方法讓這個數字可以開始往上走而不是一直停頓在這裡\n\n17\n00:06:12,418 --> 00:06:33,383\n我覺得我們可以來從開始選商的時候就能夠納入評選的要求因為主委要卸任了啦所以我希望公共工程委員會的同仁新來的主委之後你還是要告訴他本期的關注焦點就是這個我對公共工程委員會最重要未來四年我都會問這個題目\n\n18\n00:06:35,060 --> 00:06:36,281\n主委你先請休息一下好不好?謝謝\n\n19\n00:07:04,022 --> 00:07:32,735\n委員好,好,署長好,署長那個齁我們齁在這個我們的這個永續的發展目標裡面我們勞動部有做自我檢視嘛那其中啊這個核心目標的8叫促進包容且永續的經濟成長其中具體目標裡面我們有促進工作環境安全及保障女性勞工參與工會權益然後我們也訂出了對應的指標對吧是\n\n20\n00:07:33,895 --> 00:07:49,213\n我看了一下這個數字因為時間有限我看了一下那個職災死亡的千人率我不管高跟低我只問一個問題就是說看起來沒有明顯的那種下降的這個趨勢\n\n21\n00:07:51,636 --> 00:07:54,957\n市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?\n\n22\n00:08:21,505 --> 00:08:47,511\n那這個六年這個路徑一定要出來啦不然的話他不會到2030那一年就自動忽然數字就減半了這不可能所以呢我是很擔心因為看趨勢齁雖然只有兩年啦齁這個趨勢看起來就沒有下沒有應該邏輯上他應該是緩慢要一直下降但看起來這兩年並沒有這樣的趨勢所以本席必須要在這個執行台上來監督同時期盼\n\n23\n00:08:48,251 --> 00:08:48,291\n所以﹖\n\n24\n00:08:58,627 --> 00:09:20,517\n我知道就是說我們除了這些什麼勞檢啊取締這個之外其實我們應該建立起應該另外的思維有沒有可能什麼樣的方式可以我們更大的力氣跟這些營造廠商來合作透過怎麼樣的教育方式或者提醒方式或者什麼樣的機制讓他除了事後的取締\n\n25\n00:09:21,738 --> 00:09:42,572\n之外,當然這個也很重要嘛,因為有些人就是很懶惰,他就是每天都不做,當然你要把他嚴格處分這個本席沒有意見,對這種,但是還是有很多人他其實很願意配合,或許他方法不好,或許他不知道該怎麼做,那勞動部應該可以主動積極的把這些人\n\n26\n00:09:44,325 --> 00:10:07,826\n想出一套方法所以壞學生有壞學生的處分方式好學生有好學生的方法所以你把好學生教得更好或許他們你這個數字就會逐年下降所以本期談的這個路徑其實是這個概念就是我們要有一些具體的做法因為我們沒有聯合國這SDGs的時候我們還是這樣在做嘛但有了這個之後我們目標要把它減半\n\n27\n00:10:08,697 --> 00:10:34,185\n那個方式路徑就要早早就要開始動,署長同意嗎?非常謝謝委員指教,我們的重點應該是,跨部會合作,公私協力,委員會不會只有做勞檢才會達到目標,我認為這是不可能的,整個是從上中下游,從源頭的設計到最後執行,到好的給鼓勵,不好的給你克制,整體上的循環。所以處罰是一塊啦,這個你不可能停嘛,也不應該停嘛。\n\n28\n00:10:34,645 --> 00:10:35,806\n蔡其昌委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n129\t3252\t主席請吳主委請吳主委主委早首先謝謝主委這些年來對國家的貢獻所以在這裡先跟你說一聲謝謝那接下來我想\n23448\t49034\t主委畢竟你還在位置上所以本席該建議該講的話我還是必須要善盡我立法委員的職責本席在長期以來因為過去擔任副院長期間大概很多的議題都在副院長的辦公室我們進行一些協調或協商那本席過去比較少有機會可以在這裡所以上次就教主委其實就是\n50034\t52777\t今天我剛剛做了一個臨時提案,這個臨時提案其實主軸都是一樣,都是永續\n72516\t90167\t這個就是說我看了一下那個數字我們公共工程委員會這個政府採購所謂綠色採購金額的部分只有126億那我剛剛也請助理去了解一下這個126億主要的綠色採購在公共工程委員會向下主要都做哪些採購\n92872\t117142\t這個部分我們是鼓勵各機關他必須要去考慮包括各方面的這一個設計的考量他的建材、他的工法還有他的規劃的一個整體的考量應該從這樣就去把它去源頭就把它考慮我的意思是說我們統計126億這126億\n121888\t150151\t數字這個金額實在是很低啦那我的意思是說這120億是不是有一些你的項目是沒有放進去綠色有一些我們做綠色採購的鼓勵但是沒有放進去我的意思問你這個問題我覺得這個有可能我們必須來再檢視對幕僚你們有提供給主委這個答案嗎就是早上助理告訴我好像只有碳粉匣啦\n151468\t170394\t是不是主委我覺得這些是使用的一些物品那我個人的看法更重要的就是在工程的剛剛我講的規劃設計來講就必須考量它的使用的材料主委我們一項一項來沒有關係我等一下會再請教那個綠建築的部分就綠色採購金額只有126億其實對本期來講這個政府的力道很低\n181357\t207909\t那我問了一下126億我們買什麼那大部分都集中在什麼碳粉匣啦或者一些部分商品看起來他佔政府採購的金額裡面看起來並不大那我的意思為什麼我做了這個臨時提案我的意思是說公共工程委員會跟環境部對於政府所有部門不只指於什麼紙張啊、碳粉匣啊\n209170\t224865\t應該對於所有政府部門在綠色採購上面我們應該做一個整體性的數字的統計如果我們沒有數字我們就無法管理我們就無法訂定目標所以本席的意思是說我做這個臨時提案\n226286\t244198\t交通委員會、草野立委都同意意思就是說接下來工程會跟環境部應該對於政府到底我們做了多少綠色採購今年做了多少我們明年成長1%成長2%逐年我們要把綠色採購成長那我們遇到的障礙是什麼\n244838\t263297\t就沒有這些數據的統計跟管理我們沒有辦法訂定政策跟目標嘛主委這樣你懂我的意思所以本席要求要訂這個看起來公共工程會也沒有意見嘛只是加了環境部所以這是本席第一個我覺得應該來做在綠色採購上面第二個呢\n264755\t288720\t在剛剛主委有去提到包括建築嘛建材啊等等那我們現在這個當然公有建築物的公有建築的所謂這個綠建築的標章這個是內政部在發啦但是內政部在發是發給你說你這個建築物有沒有符合綠色建築有我就給你綠色建築的標章嘛但是這個是他決定要做這件事情\n289602\t302761\t然後呢透過內政部的檢查給予合格標章那公共工程委員會要不要鼓勵或者我們有想出什麼樣的這個政策目標讓綠建築去申請的人變多主委\n306052\t313498\t你有沒有什麼想法可以增加綠建築因為那個綠建築你看內政部的這個資料108年有191件到了112年也不過218件那蔡總統宣布2050淨零碳白的時間是在110年你看111年、112年其實都比110年件數來得少\n331294\t341961\t所以本席的意思是說公共工程委員會應該訂定目標嘛對於綠色採購、綠色建築我們都應該有明確的這個方向跟目標主委你的看法呢\n342435\t371504\t我覺得兩方面跟委員報告那麼從各機關的採購也許會走向剛剛講的紙張、碳粉等等那就工程來講應該朝著另外一個層面怎麼樣從這一個工程本身的設計規劃去考量對包括材料的選擇沒有錯 這個我都支持有沒有方法有沒有方法讓這個數字可以開始往上走而不是一直停頓在這裡\n372418\t393383\t我覺得我們可以來從開始選商的時候就能夠納入評選的要求因為主委要卸任了啦所以我希望公共工程委員會的同仁新來的主委之後你還是要告訴他本期的關注焦點就是這個我對公共工程委員會最重要未來四年我都會問這個題目\n395060\t396281\t主委你先請休息一下好不好?謝謝\n424022\t452735\t委員好,好,署長好,署長那個齁我們齁在這個我們的這個永續的發展目標裡面我們勞動部有做自我檢視嘛那其中啊這個核心目標的8叫促進包容且永續的經濟成長其中具體目標裡面我們有促進工作環境安全及保障女性勞工參與工會權益然後我們也訂出了對應的指標對吧是\n453895\t469213\t我看了一下這個數字因為時間有限我看了一下那個職災死亡的千人率我不管高跟低我只問一個問題就是說看起來沒有明顯的那種下降的這個趨勢\n471636\t474957\t市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?\n501505\t527511\t那這個六年這個路徑一定要出來啦不然的話他不會到2030那一年就自動忽然數字就減半了這不可能所以呢我是很擔心因為看趨勢齁雖然只有兩年啦齁這個趨勢看起來就沒有下沒有應該邏輯上他應該是緩慢要一直下降但看起來這兩年並沒有這樣的趨勢所以本席必須要在這個執行台上來監督同時期盼\n528251\t528291\t所以﹖\n538627\t560517\t我知道就是說我們除了這些什麼勞檢啊取締這個之外其實我們應該建立起應該另外的思維有沒有可能什麼樣的方式可以我們更大的力氣跟這些營造廠商來合作透過怎麼樣的教育方式或者提醒方式或者什麼樣的機制讓他除了事後的取締\n561738\t582572\t之外,當然這個也很重要嘛,因為有些人就是很懶惰,他就是每天都不做,當然你要把他嚴格處分這個本席沒有意見,對這種,但是還是有很多人他其實很願意配合,或許他方法不好,或許他不知道該怎麼做,那勞動部應該可以主動積極的把這些人\n584325\t607826\t想出一套方法所以壞學生有壞學生的處分方式好學生有好學生的方法所以你把好學生教得更好或許他們你這個數字就會逐年下降所以本期談的這個路徑其實是這個概念就是我們要有一些具體的做法因為我們沒有聯合國這SDGs的時候我們還是這樣在做嘛但有了這個之後我們目標要把它減半\n608697\t634185\t那個方式路徑就要早早就要開始動,署長同意嗎?非常謝謝委員指教,我們的重點應該是,跨部會合作,公私協力,委員會不會只有做勞檢才會達到目標,我認為這是不可能的,整個是從上中下游,從源頭的設計到最後執行,到好的給鼓勵,不好的給你克制,整體上的循環。所以處罰是一塊啦,這個你不可能停嘛,也不應該停嘛。\n634645\t635806\t蔡其昌委員\n","txt":"主席請吳主委請吳主委主委早首先謝謝主委這些年來對國家的貢獻所以在這裡先跟你說一聲謝謝那接下來我想\n主委畢竟你還在位置上所以本席該建議該講的話我還是必須要善盡我立法委員的職責本席在長期以來因為過去擔任副院長期間大概很多的議題都在副院長的辦公室我們進行一些協調或協商那本席過去比較少有機會可以在這裡所以上次就教主委其實就是\n今天我剛剛做了一個臨時提案,這個臨時提案其實主軸都是一樣,都是永續\n這個就是說我看了一下那個數字我們公共工程委員會這個政府採購所謂綠色採購金額的部分只有126億那我剛剛也請助理去了解一下這個126億主要的綠色採購在公共工程委員會向下主要都做哪些採購\n這個部分我們是鼓勵各機關他必須要去考慮包括各方面的這一個設計的考量他的建材、他的工法還有他的規劃的一個整體的考量應該從這樣就去把它去源頭就把它考慮我的意思是說我們統計126億這126億\n數字這個金額實在是很低啦那我的意思是說這120億是不是有一些你的項目是沒有放進去綠色有一些我們做綠色採購的鼓勵但是沒有放進去我的意思問你這個問題我覺得這個有可能我們必須來再檢視對幕僚你們有提供給主委這個答案嗎就是早上助理告訴我好像只有碳粉匣啦\n是不是主委我覺得這些是使用的一些物品那我個人的看法更重要的就是在工程的剛剛我講的規劃設計來講就必須考量它的使用的材料主委我們一項一項來沒有關係我等一下會再請教那個綠建築的部分就綠色採購金額只有126億其實對本期來講這個政府的力道很低\n那我問了一下126億我們買什麼那大部分都集中在什麼碳粉匣啦或者一些部分商品看起來他佔政府採購的金額裡面看起來並不大那我的意思為什麼我做了這個臨時提案我的意思是說公共工程委員會跟環境部對於政府所有部門不只指於什麼紙張啊、碳粉匣啊\n應該對於所有政府部門在綠色採購上面我們應該做一個整體性的數字的統計如果我們沒有數字我們就無法管理我們就無法訂定目標所以本席的意思是說我做這個臨時提案\n交通委員會、草野立委都同意意思就是說接下來工程會跟環境部應該對於政府到底我們做了多少綠色採購今年做了多少我們明年成長1%成長2%逐年我們要把綠色採購成長那我們遇到的障礙是什麼\n就沒有這些數據的統計跟管理我們沒有辦法訂定政策跟目標嘛主委這樣你懂我的意思所以本席要求要訂這個看起來公共工程會也沒有意見嘛只是加了環境部所以這是本席第一個我覺得應該來做在綠色採購上面第二個呢\n在剛剛主委有去提到包括建築嘛建材啊等等那我們現在這個當然公有建築物的公有建築的所謂這個綠建築的標章這個是內政部在發啦但是內政部在發是發給你說你這個建築物有沒有符合綠色建築有我就給你綠色建築的標章嘛但是這個是他決定要做這件事情\n然後呢透過內政部的檢查給予合格標章那公共工程委員會要不要鼓勵或者我們有想出什麼樣的這個政策目標讓綠建築去申請的人變多主委\n你有沒有什麼想法可以增加綠建築因為那個綠建築你看內政部的這個資料108年有191件到了112年也不過218件那蔡總統宣布2050淨零碳白的時間是在110年你看111年、112年其實都比110年件數來得少\n所以本席的意思是說公共工程委員會應該訂定目標嘛對於綠色採購、綠色建築我們都應該有明確的這個方向跟目標主委你的看法呢\n我覺得兩方面跟委員報告那麼從各機關的採購也許會走向剛剛講的紙張、碳粉等等那就工程來講應該朝著另外一個層面怎麼樣從這一個工程本身的設計規劃去考量對包括材料的選擇沒有錯 這個我都支持有沒有方法有沒有方法讓這個數字可以開始往上走而不是一直停頓在這裡\n我覺得我們可以來從開始選商的時候就能夠納入評選的要求因為主委要卸任了啦所以我希望公共工程委員會的同仁新來的主委之後你還是要告訴他本期的關注焦點就是這個我對公共工程委員會最重要未來四年我都會問這個題目\n主委你先請休息一下好不好?謝謝\n委員好,好,署長好,署長那個齁我們齁在這個我們的這個永續的發展目標裡面我們勞動部有做自我檢視嘛那其中啊這個核心目標的8叫促進包容且永續的經濟成長其中具體目標裡面我們有促進工作環境安全及保障女性勞工參與工會權益然後我們也訂出了對應的指標對吧是\n我看了一下這個數字因為時間有限我看了一下那個職災死亡的千人率我不管高跟低我只問一個問題就是說看起來沒有明顯的那種下降的這個趨勢\n市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?\n那這個六年這個路徑一定要出來啦不然的話他不會到2030那一年就自動忽然數字就減半了這不可能所以呢我是很擔心因為看趨勢齁雖然只有兩年啦齁這個趨勢看起來就沒有下沒有應該邏輯上他應該是緩慢要一直下降但看起來這兩年並沒有這樣的趨勢所以本席必須要在這個執行台上來監督同時期盼\n所以﹖\n我知道就是說我們除了這些什麼勞檢啊取締這個之外其實我們應該建立起應該另外的思維有沒有可能什麼樣的方式可以我們更大的力氣跟這些營造廠商來合作透過怎麼樣的教育方式或者提醒方式或者什麼樣的機制讓他除了事後的取締\n之外,當然這個也很重要嘛,因為有些人就是很懶惰,他就是每天都不做,當然你要把他嚴格處分這個本席沒有意見,對這種,但是還是有很多人他其實很願意配合,或許他方法不好,或許他不知道該怎麼做,那勞動部應該可以主動積極的把這些人\n想出一套方法所以壞學生有壞學生的處分方式好學生有好學生的方法所以你把好學生教得更好或許他們你這個數字就會逐年下降所以本期談的這個路徑其實是這個概念就是我們要有一些具體的做法因為我們沒有聯合國這SDGs的時候我們還是這樣在做嘛但有了這個之後我們目標要把它減半\n那個方式路徑就要早早就要開始動,署長同意嗎?非常謝謝委員指教,我們的重點應該是,跨部會合作,公私協力,委員會不會只有做勞檢才會達到目標,我認為這是不可能的,整個是從上中下游,從源頭的設計到最後執行,到好的給鼓勵,不好的給你克制,整體上的循環。所以處罰是一塊啦,這個你不可能停嘛,也不應該停嘛。\n蔡其昌委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.129 --> 00:03.252\n主席請吳主委請吳主委主委早首先謝謝主委這些年來對國家的貢獻所以在這裡先跟你說一聲謝謝那接下來我想\n\n00:23.448 --> 00:49.034\n主委畢竟你還在位置上所以本席該建議該講的話我還是必須要善盡我立法委員的職責本席在長期以來因為過去擔任副院長期間大概很多的議題都在副院長的辦公室我們進行一些協調或協商那本席過去比較少有機會可以在這裡所以上次就教主委其實就是\n\n00:50.034 --> 00:52.777\n今天我剛剛做了一個臨時提案,這個臨時提案其實主軸都是一樣,都是永續\n\n01:12.516 --> 01:30.167\n這個就是說我看了一下那個數字我們公共工程委員會這個政府採購所謂綠色採購金額的部分只有126億那我剛剛也請助理去了解一下這個126億主要的綠色採購在公共工程委員會向下主要都做哪些採購\n\n01:32.872 --> 01:57.142\n這個部分我們是鼓勵各機關他必須要去考慮包括各方面的這一個設計的考量他的建材、他的工法還有他的規劃的一個整體的考量應該從這樣就去把它去源頭就把它考慮我的意思是說我們統計126億這126億\n\n02:01.888 --> 02:30.151\n數字這個金額實在是很低啦那我的意思是說這120億是不是有一些你的項目是沒有放進去綠色有一些我們做綠色採購的鼓勵但是沒有放進去我的意思問你這個問題我覺得這個有可能我們必須來再檢視對幕僚你們有提供給主委這個答案嗎就是早上助理告訴我好像只有碳粉匣啦\n\n02:31.468 --> 02:50.394\n是不是主委我覺得這些是使用的一些物品那我個人的看法更重要的就是在工程的剛剛我講的規劃設計來講就必須考量它的使用的材料主委我們一項一項來沒有關係我等一下會再請教那個綠建築的部分就綠色採購金額只有126億其實對本期來講這個政府的力道很低\n\n03:01.357 --> 03:27.909\n那我問了一下126億我們買什麼那大部分都集中在什麼碳粉匣啦或者一些部分商品看起來他佔政府採購的金額裡面看起來並不大那我的意思為什麼我做了這個臨時提案我的意思是說公共工程委員會跟環境部對於政府所有部門不只指於什麼紙張啊、碳粉匣啊\n\n03:29.170 --> 03:44.865\n應該對於所有政府部門在綠色採購上面我們應該做一個整體性的數字的統計如果我們沒有數字我們就無法管理我們就無法訂定目標所以本席的意思是說我做這個臨時提案\n\n03:46.286 --> 04:04.198\n交通委員會、草野立委都同意意思就是說接下來工程會跟環境部應該對於政府到底我們做了多少綠色採購今年做了多少我們明年成長1%成長2%逐年我們要把綠色採購成長那我們遇到的障礙是什麼\n\n04:04.838 --> 04:23.297\n就沒有這些數據的統計跟管理我們沒有辦法訂定政策跟目標嘛主委這樣你懂我的意思所以本席要求要訂這個看起來公共工程會也沒有意見嘛只是加了環境部所以這是本席第一個我覺得應該來做在綠色採購上面第二個呢\n\n04:24.755 --> 04:48.720\n在剛剛主委有去提到包括建築嘛建材啊等等那我們現在這個當然公有建築物的公有建築的所謂這個綠建築的標章這個是內政部在發啦但是內政部在發是發給你說你這個建築物有沒有符合綠色建築有我就給你綠色建築的標章嘛但是這個是他決定要做這件事情\n\n04:49.602 --> 05:02.761\n然後呢透過內政部的檢查給予合格標章那公共工程委員會要不要鼓勵或者我們有想出什麼樣的這個政策目標讓綠建築去申請的人變多主委\n\n05:06.052 --> 05:13.498\n你有沒有什麼想法可以增加綠建築因為那個綠建築你看內政部的這個資料108年有191件到了112年也不過218件那蔡總統宣布2050淨零碳白的時間是在110年你看111年、112年其實都比110年件數來得少\n\n05:31.294 --> 05:41.961\n所以本席的意思是說公共工程委員會應該訂定目標嘛對於綠色採購、綠色建築我們都應該有明確的這個方向跟目標主委你的看法呢\n\n05:42.435 --> 06:11.504\n我覺得兩方面跟委員報告那麼從各機關的採購也許會走向剛剛講的紙張、碳粉等等那就工程來講應該朝著另外一個層面怎麼樣從這一個工程本身的設計規劃去考量對包括材料的選擇沒有錯這個我都支持有沒有方法有沒有方法讓這個數字可以開始往上走而不是一直停頓在這裡\n\n06:12.418 --> 06:33.383\n我覺得我們可以來從開始選商的時候就能夠納入評選的要求因為主委要卸任了啦所以我希望公共工程委員會的同仁新來的主委之後你還是要告訴他本期的關注焦點就是這個我對公共工程委員會最重要未來四年我都會問這個題目\n\n06:35.060 --> 06:36.281\n主委你先請休息一下好不好?謝謝\n\n07:04.022 --> 07:32.735\n委員好,好,署長好,署長那個齁我們齁在這個我們的這個永續的發展目標裡面我們勞動部有做自我檢視嘛那其中啊這個核心目標的8叫促進包容且永續的經濟成長其中具體目標裡面我們有促進工作環境安全及保障女性勞工參與工會權益然後我們也訂出了對應的指標對吧是\n\n07:33.895 --> 07:49.213\n我看了一下這個數字因為時間有限我看了一下那個職災死亡的千人率我不管高跟低我只問一個問題就是說看起來沒有明顯的那種下降的這個趨勢\n\n07:51.636 --> 07:54.957\n市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?\n\n08:21.505 --> 08:47.511\n那這個六年這個路徑一定要出來啦不然的話他不會到2030那一年就自動忽然數字就減半了這不可能所以呢我是很擔心因為看趨勢齁雖然只有兩年啦齁這個趨勢看起來就沒有下沒有應該邏輯上他應該是緩慢要一直下降但看起來這兩年並沒有這樣的趨勢所以本席必須要在這個執行台上來監督同時期盼\n\n08:48.251 --> 08:48.291\n所以﹖\n\n08:58.627 --> 09:20.517\n我知道就是說我們除了這些什麼勞檢啊取締這個之外其實我們應該建立起應該另外的思維有沒有可能什麼樣的方式可以我們更大的力氣跟這些營造廠商來合作透過怎麼樣的教育方式或者提醒方式或者什麼樣的機制讓他除了事後的取締\n\n09:21.738 --> 09:42.572\n之外,當然這個也很重要嘛,因為有些人就是很懶惰,他就是每天都不做,當然你要把他嚴格處分這個本席沒有意見,對這種,但是還是有很多人他其實很願意配合,或許他方法不好,或許他不知道該怎麼做,那勞動部應該可以主動積極的把這些人\n\n09:44.325 --> 10:07.826\n想出一套方法所以壞學生有壞學生的處分方式好學生有好學生的方法所以你把好學生教得更好或許他們你這個數字就會逐年下降所以本期談的這個路徑其實是這個概念就是我們要有一些具體的做法因為我們沒有聯合國這SDGs的時候我們還是這樣在做嘛但有了這個之後我們目標要把它減半\n\n10:08.697 --> 10:34.185\n那個方式路徑就要早早就要開始動,署長同意嗎?非常謝謝委員指教,我們的重點應該是,跨部會合作,公私協力,委員會不會只有做勞檢才會達到目標,我認為這是不可能的,整個是從上中下游,從源頭的設計到最後執行,到好的給鼓勵,不好的給你克制,整體上的循環。所以處罰是一塊啦,這個你不可能停嘛,也不應該停嘛。\n\n10:34.645 --> 10:35.806\n蔡其昌委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.129,"end":3.252,"text":"主席請吳主委請吳主委主委早首先謝謝主委這些年來對國家的貢獻所以在這裡先跟你說一聲謝謝那接下來我想"},{"start":23.448,"end":49.034,"text":"主委畢竟你還在位置上所以本席該建議該講的話我還是必須要善盡我立法委員的職責本席在長期以來因為過去擔任副院長期間大概很多的議題都在副院長的辦公室我們進行一些協調或協商那本席過去比較少有機會可以在這裡所以上次就教主委其實就是"},{"start":50.034,"end":52.777,"text":"今天我剛剛做了一個臨時提案,這個臨時提案其實主軸都是一樣,都是永續"},{"start":72.516,"end":90.167,"text":"這個就是說我看了一下那個數字我們公共工程委員會這個政府採購所謂綠色採購金額的部分只有126億那我剛剛也請助理去了解一下這個126億主要的綠色採購在公共工程委員會向下主要都做哪些採購"},{"start":92.872,"end":117.142,"text":"這個部分我們是鼓勵各機關他必須要去考慮包括各方面的這一個設計的考量他的建材、他的工法還有他的規劃的一個整體的考量應該從這樣就去把它去源頭就把它考慮我的意思是說我們統計126億這126億"},{"start":121.888,"end":150.151,"text":"數字這個金額實在是很低啦那我的意思是說這120億是不是有一些你的項目是沒有放進去綠色有一些我們做綠色採購的鼓勵但是沒有放進去我的意思問你這個問題我覺得這個有可能我們必須來再檢視對幕僚你們有提供給主委這個答案嗎就是早上助理告訴我好像只有碳粉匣啦"},{"start":151.468,"end":170.394,"text":"是不是主委我覺得這些是使用的一些物品那我個人的看法更重要的就是在工程的剛剛我講的規劃設計來講就必須考量它的使用的材料主委我們一項一項來沒有關係我等一下會再請教那個綠建築的部分就綠色採購金額只有126億其實對本期來講這個政府的力道很低"},{"start":181.357,"end":207.909,"text":"那我問了一下126億我們買什麼那大部分都集中在什麼碳粉匣啦或者一些部分商品看起來他佔政府採購的金額裡面看起來並不大那我的意思為什麼我做了這個臨時提案我的意思是說公共工程委員會跟環境部對於政府所有部門不只指於什麼紙張啊、碳粉匣啊"},{"start":209.17,"end":224.865,"text":"應該對於所有政府部門在綠色採購上面我們應該做一個整體性的數字的統計如果我們沒有數字我們就無法管理我們就無法訂定目標所以本席的意思是說我做這個臨時提案"},{"start":226.286,"end":244.198,"text":"交通委員會、草野立委都同意意思就是說接下來工程會跟環境部應該對於政府到底我們做了多少綠色採購今年做了多少我們明年成長1%成長2%逐年我們要把綠色採購成長那我們遇到的障礙是什麼"},{"start":244.838,"end":263.297,"text":"就沒有這些數據的統計跟管理我們沒有辦法訂定政策跟目標嘛主委這樣你懂我的意思所以本席要求要訂這個看起來公共工程會也沒有意見嘛只是加了環境部所以這是本席第一個我覺得應該來做在綠色採購上面第二個呢"},{"start":264.755,"end":288.72,"text":"在剛剛主委有去提到包括建築嘛建材啊等等那我們現在這個當然公有建築物的公有建築的所謂這個綠建築的標章這個是內政部在發啦但是內政部在發是發給你說你這個建築物有沒有符合綠色建築有我就給你綠色建築的標章嘛但是這個是他決定要做這件事情"},{"start":289.602,"end":302.761,"text":"然後呢透過內政部的檢查給予合格標章那公共工程委員會要不要鼓勵或者我們有想出什麼樣的這個政策目標讓綠建築去申請的人變多主委"},{"start":306.052,"end":313.498,"text":"你有沒有什麼想法可以增加綠建築因為那個綠建築你看內政部的這個資料108年有191件到了112年也不過218件那蔡總統宣布2050淨零碳白的時間是在110年你看111年、112年其實都比110年件數來得少"},{"start":331.294,"end":341.961,"text":"所以本席的意思是說公共工程委員會應該訂定目標嘛對於綠色採購、綠色建築我們都應該有明確的這個方向跟目標主委你的看法呢"},{"start":342.435,"end":371.504,"text":"我覺得兩方面跟委員報告那麼從各機關的採購也許會走向剛剛講的紙張、碳粉等等那就工程來講應該朝著另外一個層面怎麼樣從這一個工程本身的設計規劃去考量對包括材料的選擇沒有錯 這個我都支持有沒有方法有沒有方法讓這個數字可以開始往上走而不是一直停頓在這裡"},{"start":372.418,"end":393.383,"text":"我覺得我們可以來從開始選商的時候就能夠納入評選的要求因為主委要卸任了啦所以我希望公共工程委員會的同仁新來的主委之後你還是要告訴他本期的關注焦點就是這個我對公共工程委員會最重要未來四年我都會問這個題目"},{"start":395.06,"end":396.281,"text":"主委你先請休息一下好不好?謝謝"},{"start":424.022,"end":452.735,"text":"委員好,好,署長好,署長那個齁我們齁在這個我們的這個永續的發展目標裡面我們勞動部有做自我檢視嘛那其中啊這個核心目標的8叫促進包容且永續的經濟成長其中具體目標裡面我們有促進工作環境安全及保障女性勞工參與工會權益然後我們也訂出了對應的指標對吧是"},{"start":453.895,"end":469.213,"text":"我看了一下這個數字因為時間有限我看了一下那個職災死亡的千人率我不管高跟低我只問一個問題就是說看起來沒有明顯的那種下降的這個趨勢"},{"start":471.636,"end":474.957,"text":"市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?市長有沒有什麼目標或方法?"},{"start":501.505,"end":527.511,"text":"那這個六年這個路徑一定要出來啦不然的話他不會到2030那一年就自動忽然數字就減半了這不可能所以呢我是很擔心因為看趨勢齁雖然只有兩年啦齁這個趨勢看起來就沒有下沒有應該邏輯上他應該是緩慢要一直下降但看起來這兩年並沒有這樣的趨勢所以本席必須要在這個執行台上來監督同時期盼"},{"start":528.251,"end":528.291,"text":"所以﹖"},{"start":538.627,"end":560.517,"text":"我知道就是說我們除了這些什麼勞檢啊取締這個之外其實我們應該建立起應該另外的思維有沒有可能什麼樣的方式可以我們更大的力氣跟這些營造廠商來合作透過怎麼樣的教育方式或者提醒方式或者什麼樣的機制讓他除了事後的取締"},{"start":561.738,"end":582.572,"text":"之外,當然這個也很重要嘛,因為有些人就是很懶惰,他就是每天都不做,當然你要把他嚴格處分這個本席沒有意見,對這種,但是還是有很多人他其實很願意配合,或許他方法不好,或許他不知道該怎麼做,那勞動部應該可以主動積極的把這些人"},{"start":584.325,"end":607.826,"text":"想出一套方法所以壞學生有壞學生的處分方式好學生有好學生的方法所以你把好學生教得更好或許他們你這個數字就會逐年下降所以本期談的這個路徑其實是這個概念就是我們要有一些具體的做法因為我們沒有聯合國這SDGs的時候我們還是這樣在做嘛但有了這個之後我們目標要把它減半"},{"start":608.697,"end":634.185,"text":"那個方式路徑就要早早就要開始動,署長同意嗎?非常謝謝委員指教,我們的重點應該是,跨部會合作,公私協力,委員會不會只有做勞檢才會達到目標,我認為這是不可能的,整個是從上中下游,從源頭的設計到最後執行,到好的給鼓勵,不好的給你克制,整體上的循環。所以處罰是一塊啦,這個你不可能停嘛,也不應該停嘛。"},{"start":634.645,"end":635.806,"text":"蔡其昌委員"}]}}}}