{"id":152101,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152101","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db15404b4711091e0d4455ccb8302deb5eb55be169921a0a7173f89fb76c88401ab5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:51:28 - 11:57:18","影片長度":"00:05:50","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會、勞動部就「公共工程職業安全衛生改善暨降低職業災害辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院公共工程委員會預算凍結案計7案。）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-10"},"duration":350,"end_time":"2024-05-02T11:57:18+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T11:51:28+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":576,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時51分）謝謝主席，我請公共工程委員會吳主委。"],["主席：請吳主委。"],["王委員鴻薇：還有勞動部職安署鄒署長。"],["主席：請鄒署長。"],["吳主任委員澤成：王委員你好。"],["王委員鴻薇：主委好、署長好。"],["鄒署長子廉：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：請你們先聽一段音檔。","（播放音檔）"],["王委員鴻薇：好，主委、署長，昨天是勞動節，我想對於基層勞工來說，尤其在一些工程前線的勞工來講，其實他們可能每一天都擔負一定的風險。今天這個音檔事實上是來自高鐵烏日基地的一個工班，是他們所面臨的實際狀況，剛才游顥委員也特別提及，在4月9號的時候，一列高鐵南下列車突然停了5分鐘到8分鐘，整個跳電，他們沒有說明原因，但事實上是當天他們在進行開關的維修。一般來講，依照SOP應該在晚上維修，而且必須把整個電力關閉，可是他們沒有做，所以他們白天在做維修、測試的時候，電流就通過了；而另外一組工班6個人在當地現場維修，還好這個工班是很重視SOP的，因為他們要保護自己的生命安全，所以他們都會用接地棒去驗，驗了3次，很驚訝地發現應該關閉電流的地方竟然還是開啟電流，他們就說如果當天沒有按照SOP的話，6個人就變成烤肉串了。","針對這件事情，我和游顥委員早上有召開記者會，也感謝勞動部派人到記者會來聽整個狀況。所以我請問一下署長，這個狀況現在你們也大致了解，你們會做什麼樣的處置？"],["鄒署長子廉：跟委員回報，謝謝委員提供這樣的訊息，針對這處彰化基地，我們會由中區職安中心會同臺中市勞檢處先就這件個案了解有沒有違反職安法規，並做後續處置。第二，看來這個公司的管理系統出了狀況，邏輯上就是應該夜間作業，在沒有通電的時候作業，結果竟然是在通電的時候作業，看起來是管理系統出了問題，所以針對高鐵公司整個安全作業管理系統，我們也會建議高鐵作進一步的說明，再做後面的處置。"],["王委員鴻薇：對。我到時候也會繼續提供資料。","我今天早上還特別提到，其實這也是高鐵內部所提供給我們的，事件在4月9號發生，已經發生了，卻一直遲到4月30號經營管理週會裡，他們董事長才提及這件事，而提及這件事情是為什麼呢？是因為他們發現員工非常不滿意他們對這件事非常草率，好像事情過了就算了，反正沒有人員傷亡就沒有關係。這些基層勞工都說：「我有老婆、孩子要養耶，我會擔心。以後讓我怎麼安心地去工作？」事實上他們確實也去投訴，今天交通部沒有來，他們甚至投訴到主管機關，但是最後也沒有任何訊息，所以才會投訴到我這邊來。我覺得你們除了要了解SOP之外，也希望你們針對高鐵公司的經營層調查。我到時候也會提出書面質詢，今天交通部沒有來，請交通部去了解一下，為什麼4月9號發生的事情，公司到4月30號的經營管理週會才提到這件事。而且因為已經有很多人爆料，公司還說以後要小心一點，避免同仁到外面爆料！所以如果不爆料，他們就不處理這件事情。","對於勞動部，我非常肯定也感謝你們主動介入調查，你們要讓這些基層員工在前線、第一線能夠認為自己是安全的，好不好？可以喔？謝謝。"],["主席：王鴻薇委員發言完畢。","現在請王美惠委員，王美惠委員、王美惠委員不在。","現在請李柏毅委員發言，李柏毅、李柏毅委員不在。","現在請鄭天財委員，鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員不在。","現在請邱志偉委員，邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員不在","現在請楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","現在請陳冠廷委員，陳冠廷委員、陳冠廷委員不在。","現在請蔡易餘委員，蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員不在。","現在請鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","現在請羅明才委員，羅明才委員、羅明才委員不在。","現在請邱若華委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":166,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-10","speakers":["李昆澤","林國成","黃健豪","陳素月","魯明哲","何欣純","徐富癸","林沛祥","蔡其昌","許智傑","張智倫","黃國昌","林俊憲","游顥","羅智強","洪孟楷","王鴻薇","邱若華","廖先翔"],"page_start":123,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會、勞動部就「公共工程職業安全衛生改善暨降低職業災害辦理情\n形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院公共工程委員會預\n算凍結案計7案","agenda_id":"1133901_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152101","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152101","tool":"pyannote","id":"152101-pyannote"},"job_id":"n5p1wTZmXT8H3Nxy","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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\"start\": 344.183, \"end\": 344.263, \"score\": 0.549}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 344.263, \"end\": 344.283, \"score\": 0.033}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 344.283, \"end\": 344.423, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 344.423, \"end\": 344.443, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,889 --> 00:00:11,133\n謝謝主席,我請我們公共工程委員吳主委,還有勞動部周署長。主委好,還有署長。先來請你們聽一個音檔。\n\n2\n00:00:41,260 --> 00:01:07,855\nOK嗎?4月9號為了基地調遍4月9號為了基地調遍這個事情五百年早前的事幾分鐘事後的調查必中究全叫我們兄弟們不要講這件事好像這件事情沒有發生過叫我們把玉米老喝了\n\n3\n00:01:11,900 --> 00:01:12,300\n王鴻薇\n\n4\n00:01:39,719 --> 00:01:39,899\n王鴻薇議員\n\n5\n00:02:01,186 --> 00:02:11,278\n這個影音檔事實上是來自於高鐵他們在烏日基地的一個工班他們所面臨到的實際的狀況剛才尤浩委員也有特別的提及\n\n6\n00:02:15,282 --> 00:02:28,450\n因為在4月9號的時候呢高鐵他們南下列車突然就是這整個列車就是突然停了5分鐘到8分鐘整個的跳電那他們沒有去說明原因但是事實上是當天他們維修有一個開關的維修他們必須其實應該一般來講SOP應該在晚上而且要把電力整個關閉可是他們沒有做\n\n7\n00:02:38,516 --> 00:03:00,187\n他們在白天就是就在做維修測試的時候這電流就通過可是另外一個一組工班6個人他們事實上在當地的現場他們在做維修還好這個工班他們是很重視SOP的因為他們要保護自己的生命安全所以他們都用接地棒會去驗驗了三次他們都很驚訝\n\n8\n00:03:02,488 --> 00:03:28,255\n發現應該要關閉電流的地方竟然他們還是開啟電流造成他們他們就說如果今天他們沒有按照SOP的話他們六個人就變成烤肉串好這件事情我早上我跟尤浩委員我沒有召開記者會也感謝勞動部有派人到記者會裡面來聽這整個的狀況所以我就請一下署長在這個狀況現在你們也大致了解你們會做什麼樣的處置\n\n9\n00:03:29,975 --> 00:03:46,013\n跟委員回報,因為經理委員提供這樣的訊息,我們因為在彰化基地,因為我們會由我們中區職安中心會同台中市勞檢處先就這個案做了解有沒有關我們職安法規,做後面的處置。第二是看這公司的管理系統出了狀況,如意上就是應該夜間作業,\n\n10\n00:03:47,034 --> 00:03:50,896\n對,那這個我到時候也會再繼續提供,我今天早上也特別,其實這也是內部所提供給我們,因為在4月9號發生囉,已經發生了。\n\n11\n00:04:08,783 --> 00:04:19,534\n他們一直遲到4月30號在他們的經營管理周會裡面他們的董事長才提及這件事情而提及這件事情為什麼呢因為他們發現他們的員工因為非常不滿意他們對這件事情事實上是非常草率的\n\n12\n00:04:28,402 --> 00:04:29,142\n他們投訴之後呢因為今天交通部沒有來\n\n13\n00:04:48,450 --> 00:05:02,953\n他們甚至去投訴主管機關但是最後也沒有任何的訊息所以才會投訴到我這邊來所以我覺得除了你們要了解SOP之外我也希望你們針對高鐵公司的經營層這個到時候我們也會用書面質詢今天交通部沒有來請交通部要了解一下\n\n14\n00:05:10,916 --> 00:05:25,992\n為什麼在經營管理周會裡面4月9號發生的事情他們到4月30號才提到這個事情而且是因為已經有很多的去爆料他們還說以後要小心一點避免同仁到外面去爆料\n\n15\n00:05:26,613 --> 00:05:44,443\n所以若不爆料他們就不處理這個事情所以我才希望說我們今天我們的勞動部我非常的肯定也感謝你們主動的介入調查要讓這些基層員工他們在前線的時候他們在第一線他認為他是安全的好不好可以謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n889\t11133\t謝謝主席,我請我們公共工程委員吳主委,還有勞動部周署長。主委好,還有署長。先來請你們聽一個音檔。\n41260\t67855\tOK嗎?4月9號為了基地調遍4月9號為了基地調遍這個事情五百年早前的事幾分鐘事後的調查必中究全叫我們兄弟們不要講這件事好像這件事情沒有發生過叫我們把玉米老喝了\n71900\t72300\t王鴻薇\n99719\t99899\t王鴻薇議員\n121186\t131278\t這個影音檔事實上是來自於高鐵他們在烏日基地的一個工班他們所面臨到的實際的狀況剛才尤浩委員也有特別的提及\n135282\t148450\t因為在4月9號的時候呢高鐵他們南下列車突然就是這整個列車就是突然停了5分鐘到8分鐘整個的跳電那他們沒有去說明原因但是事實上是當天他們維修有一個開關的維修他們必須其實應該一般來講SOP應該在晚上而且要把電力整個關閉可是他們沒有做\n158516\t180187\t他們在白天就是就在做維修測試的時候這電流就通過可是另外一個一組工班6個人他們事實上在當地的現場他們在做維修還好這個工班他們是很重視SOP的因為他們要保護自己的生命安全所以他們都用接地棒會去驗驗了三次他們都很驚訝\n182488\t208255\t發現應該要關閉電流的地方竟然他們還是開啟電流造成他們他們就說如果今天他們沒有按照SOP的話他們六個人就變成烤肉串好這件事情我早上我跟尤浩委員我沒有召開記者會也感謝勞動部有派人到記者會裡面來聽這整個的狀況所以我就請一下署長在這個狀況現在你們也大致了解你們會做什麼樣的處置\n209975\t226013\t跟委員回報,因為經理委員提供這樣的訊息,我們因為在彰化基地,因為我們會由我們中區職安中心會同台中市勞檢處先就這個案做了解有沒有關我們職安法規,做後面的處置。第二是看這公司的管理系統出了狀況,如意上就是應該夜間作業,\n227034\t230896\t對,那這個我到時候也會再繼續提供,我今天早上也特別,其實這也是內部所提供給我們,因為在4月9號發生囉,已經發生了。\n248783\t259534\t他們一直遲到4月30號在他們的經營管理周會裡面他們的董事長才提及這件事情而提及這件事情為什麼呢因為他們發現他們的員工因為非常不滿意他們對這件事情事實上是非常草率的\n268402\t269142\t他們投訴之後呢因為今天交通部沒有來\n288450\t302953\t他們甚至去投訴主管機關但是最後也沒有任何的訊息所以才會投訴到我這邊來所以我覺得除了你們要了解SOP之外我也希望你們針對高鐵公司的經營層這個到時候我們也會用書面質詢今天交通部沒有來請交通部要了解一下\n310916\t325992\t為什麼在經營管理周會裡面4月9號發生的事情他們到4月30號才提到這個事情而且是因為已經有很多的去爆料他們還說以後要小心一點避免同仁到外面去爆料\n326613\t344443\t所以若不爆料他們就不處理這個事情所以我才希望說我們今天我們的勞動部我非常的肯定也感謝你們主動的介入調查要讓這些基層員工他們在前線的時候他們在第一線他認為他是安全的好不好可以謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我請我們公共工程委員吳主委,還有勞動部周署長。主委好,還有署長。先來請你們聽一個音檔。\nOK嗎?4月9號為了基地調遍4月9號為了基地調遍這個事情五百年早前的事幾分鐘事後的調查必中究全叫我們兄弟們不要講這件事好像這件事情沒有發生過叫我們把玉米老喝了\n王鴻薇\n王鴻薇議員\n這個影音檔事實上是來自於高鐵他們在烏日基地的一個工班他們所面臨到的實際的狀況剛才尤浩委員也有特別的提及\n因為在4月9號的時候呢高鐵他們南下列車突然就是這整個列車就是突然停了5分鐘到8分鐘整個的跳電那他們沒有去說明原因但是事實上是當天他們維修有一個開關的維修他們必須其實應該一般來講SOP應該在晚上而且要把電力整個關閉可是他們沒有做\n他們在白天就是就在做維修測試的時候這電流就通過可是另外一個一組工班6個人他們事實上在當地的現場他們在做維修還好這個工班他們是很重視SOP的因為他們要保護自己的生命安全所以他們都用接地棒會去驗驗了三次他們都很驚訝\n發現應該要關閉電流的地方竟然他們還是開啟電流造成他們他們就說如果今天他們沒有按照SOP的話他們六個人就變成烤肉串好這件事情我早上我跟尤浩委員我沒有召開記者會也感謝勞動部有派人到記者會裡面來聽這整個的狀況所以我就請一下署長在這個狀況現在你們也大致了解你們會做什麼樣的處置\n跟委員回報,因為經理委員提供這樣的訊息,我們因為在彰化基地,因為我們會由我們中區職安中心會同台中市勞檢處先就這個案做了解有沒有關我們職安法規,做後面的處置。第二是看這公司的管理系統出了狀況,如意上就是應該夜間作業,\n對,那這個我到時候也會再繼續提供,我今天早上也特別,其實這也是內部所提供給我們,因為在4月9號發生囉,已經發生了。\n他們一直遲到4月30號在他們的經營管理周會裡面他們的董事長才提及這件事情而提及這件事情為什麼呢因為他們發現他們的員工因為非常不滿意他們對這件事情事實上是非常草率的\n他們投訴之後呢因為今天交通部沒有來\n他們甚至去投訴主管機關但是最後也沒有任何的訊息所以才會投訴到我這邊來所以我覺得除了你們要了解SOP之外我也希望你們針對高鐵公司的經營層這個到時候我們也會用書面質詢今天交通部沒有來請交通部要了解一下\n為什麼在經營管理周會裡面4月9號發生的事情他們到4月30號才提到這個事情而且是因為已經有很多的去爆料他們還說以後要小心一點避免同仁到外面去爆料\n所以若不爆料他們就不處理這個事情所以我才希望說我們今天我們的勞動部我非常的肯定也感謝你們主動的介入調查要讓這些基層員工他們在前線的時候他們在第一線他認為他是安全的好不好可以謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.889 --> 00:11.133\n謝謝主席,我請我們公共工程委員吳主委,還有勞動部周署長。主委好,還有署長。先來請你們聽一個音檔。\n\n00:41.260 --> 01:07.855\nOK嗎?4月9號為了基地調遍4月9號為了基地調遍這個事情五百年早前的事幾分鐘事後的調查必中究全叫我們兄弟們不要講這件事好像這件事情沒有發生過叫我們把玉米老喝了\n\n01:11.900 --> 01:12.300\n王鴻薇\n\n01:39.719 --> 01:39.899\n王鴻薇議員\n\n02:01.186 --> 02:11.278\n這個影音檔事實上是來自於高鐵他們在烏日基地的一個工班他們所面臨到的實際的狀況剛才尤浩委員也有特別的提及\n\n02:15.282 --> 02:28.450\n因為在4月9號的時候呢高鐵他們南下列車突然就是這整個列車就是突然停了5分鐘到8分鐘整個的跳電那他們沒有去說明原因但是事實上是當天他們維修有一個開關的維修他們必須其實應該一般來講SOP應該在晚上而且要把電力整個關閉可是他們沒有做\n\n02:38.516 --> 03:00.187\n他們在白天就是就在做維修測試的時候這電流就通過可是另外一個一組工班6個人他們事實上在當地的現場他們在做維修還好這個工班他們是很重視SOP的因為他們要保護自己的生命安全所以他們都用接地棒會去驗驗了三次他們都很驚訝\n\n03:02.488 --> 03:28.255\n發現應該要關閉電流的地方竟然他們還是開啟電流造成他們他們就說如果今天他們沒有按照SOP的話他們六個人就變成烤肉串好這件事情我早上我跟尤浩委員我沒有召開記者會也感謝勞動部有派人到記者會裡面來聽這整個的狀況所以我就請一下署長在這個狀況現在你們也大致了解你們會做什麼樣的處置\n\n03:29.975 --> 03:46.013\n跟委員回報,因為經理委員提供這樣的訊息,我們因為在彰化基地,因為我們會由我們中區職安中心會同台中市勞檢處先就這個案做了解有沒有關我們職安法規,做後面的處置。第二是看這公司的管理系統出了狀況,如意上就是應該夜間作業,\n\n03:47.034 --> 03:50.896\n對,那這個我到時候也會再繼續提供,我今天早上也特別,其實這也是內部所提供給我們,因為在4月9號發生囉,已經發生了。\n\n04:08.783 --> 04:19.534\n他們一直遲到4月30號在他們的經營管理周會裡面他們的董事長才提及這件事情而提及這件事情為什麼呢因為他們發現他們的員工因為非常不滿意他們對這件事情事實上是非常草率的\n\n04:28.402 --> 04:29.142\n他們投訴之後呢因為今天交通部沒有來\n\n04:48.450 --> 05:02.953\n他們甚至去投訴主管機關但是最後也沒有任何的訊息所以才會投訴到我這邊來所以我覺得除了你們要了解SOP之外我也希望你們針對高鐵公司的經營層這個到時候我們也會用書面質詢今天交通部沒有來請交通部要了解一下\n\n05:10.916 --> 05:25.992\n為什麼在經營管理周會裡面4月9號發生的事情他們到4月30號才提到這個事情而且是因為已經有很多的去爆料他們還說以後要小心一點避免同仁到外面去爆料\n\n05:26.613 --> 05:44.443\n所以若不爆料他們就不處理這個事情所以我才希望說我們今天我們的勞動部我非常的肯定也感謝你們主動的介入調查要讓這些基層員工他們在前線的時候他們在第一線他認為他是安全的好不好可以謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.889,"end":11.133,"text":"謝謝主席,我請我們公共工程委員吳主委,還有勞動部周署長。主委好,還有署長。先來請你們聽一個音檔。"},{"start":41.26,"end":67.855,"text":"OK嗎?4月9號為了基地調遍4月9號為了基地調遍這個事情五百年早前的事幾分鐘事後的調查必中究全叫我們兄弟們不要講這件事好像這件事情沒有發生過叫我們把玉米老喝了"},{"start":71.9,"end":72.3,"text":"王鴻薇"},{"start":99.719,"end":99.899,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":121.186,"end":131.278,"text":"這個影音檔事實上是來自於高鐵他們在烏日基地的一個工班他們所面臨到的實際的狀況剛才尤浩委員也有特別的提及"},{"start":135.282,"end":148.45,"text":"因為在4月9號的時候呢高鐵他們南下列車突然就是這整個列車就是突然停了5分鐘到8分鐘整個的跳電那他們沒有去說明原因但是事實上是當天他們維修有一個開關的維修他們必須其實應該一般來講SOP應該在晚上而且要把電力整個關閉可是他們沒有做"},{"start":158.516,"end":180.187,"text":"他們在白天就是就在做維修測試的時候這電流就通過可是另外一個一組工班6個人他們事實上在當地的現場他們在做維修還好這個工班他們是很重視SOP的因為他們要保護自己的生命安全所以他們都用接地棒會去驗驗了三次他們都很驚訝"},{"start":182.488,"end":208.255,"text":"發現應該要關閉電流的地方竟然他們還是開啟電流造成他們他們就說如果今天他們沒有按照SOP的話他們六個人就變成烤肉串好這件事情我早上我跟尤浩委員我沒有召開記者會也感謝勞動部有派人到記者會裡面來聽這整個的狀況所以我就請一下署長在這個狀況現在你們也大致了解你們會做什麼樣的處置"},{"start":209.975,"end":226.013,"text":"跟委員回報,因為經理委員提供這樣的訊息,我們因為在彰化基地,因為我們會由我們中區職安中心會同台中市勞檢處先就這個案做了解有沒有關我們職安法規,做後面的處置。第二是看這公司的管理系統出了狀況,如意上就是應該夜間作業,"},{"start":227.034,"end":230.896,"text":"對,那這個我到時候也會再繼續提供,我今天早上也特別,其實這也是內部所提供給我們,因為在4月9號發生囉,已經發生了。"},{"start":248.783,"end":259.534,"text":"他們一直遲到4月30號在他們的經營管理周會裡面他們的董事長才提及這件事情而提及這件事情為什麼呢因為他們發現他們的員工因為非常不滿意他們對這件事情事實上是非常草率的"},{"start":268.402,"end":269.142,"text":"他們投訴之後呢因為今天交通部沒有來"},{"start":288.45,"end":302.953,"text":"他們甚至去投訴主管機關但是最後也沒有任何的訊息所以才會投訴到我這邊來所以我覺得除了你們要了解SOP之外我也希望你們針對高鐵公司的經營層這個到時候我們也會用書面質詢今天交通部沒有來請交通部要了解一下"},{"start":310.916,"end":325.992,"text":"為什麼在經營管理周會裡面4月9號發生的事情他們到4月30號才提到這個事情而且是因為已經有很多的去爆料他們還說以後要小心一點避免同仁到外面去爆料"},{"start":326.613,"end":344.443,"text":"所以若不爆料他們就不處理這個事情所以我才希望說我們今天我們的勞動部我非常的肯定也感謝你們主動的介入調查要讓這些基層員工他們在前線的時候他們在第一線他認為他是安全的好不好可以謝謝"}]}}}}