{"id":152109,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152109","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db103fdf4a9baaf8b64e12ebde737ab3c1955be169921a0a7172a968d603343e0df5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"12:14:11 - 12:19:40","影片長度":"00:05:29","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員柯志恩等17人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例增訂第三十六條之四條文草案」案。\n六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、本院國民黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n八、本院委員張智倫等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、本院委員王世堅等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員郭國文等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員邱議瑩等29人擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（詢答及處理，委員郭國文等人提案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查）【4月29日、5月1日及2日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-10"},"duration":329,"end_time":"2024-05-02T12:19:40+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T12:14:11+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":836,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（12時14分）麻煩部長。"],["主席：我們再請王部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長好。部長，今天質詢的部分可能也要麻煩你做為重要的交接事項，主要是針對基礎設施的部分。昨天我們在國防外交委員會針對國土辦提到一些重點基礎建設、基礎設施的韌性，我們回顧這八年來，在2017年有全臺大停電的事件，因為包商的關係導致天然氣供氣中斷機組的運作；在2020年3月11日就不是所謂高科技上的危害，很簡單的、非常lowtech，桃園機場的電纜遭到包商人員意外剪斷，整個機場就停電了。從這兩個案例來看，無論是發電廠或機場等重要的基礎設施，不要說是資安防護了，我們並沒有講到那邊，只講最簡單的門禁的檢查、器具的使用、目標地的存在，也就是為什麼你在那個時間點會在那個地方，不應該在授權的時間點出現在那個地方就應該被禁止，我們沒有把這個東西做得比較完善。我不是要苛責國安單位，因為無所不防就等於是什麼都沒有防備，你還是要按照它的優先順序去做防範。","再來，供電當然是最重要的，供水、天然氣還是有一個優先的方案出來，當然經濟部是主管單位，所以昨天我問國土辦的時候，國土辦給我的回答是他們只有十幾個人力而已，預算也是數百萬元而已，等於說它沒有辦法做一個完整的執行，因為它是幕僚單位，所以執行的部分就等於是由各個部門處理。未來的基礎設施是非常重要的，特別是接下來的部長是由業界出身，當然知道只要某個小時斷電所造成的影響有多大，如果斷電是因為跳電或自然災害就無可厚非，變成要做應變機制，也就是要做減災的部分，但是在防範的部分已經出現多次都是以非常低科技的方式，也就是我們想像不到卻又是極端直接暴力的方式就可以造成我們的損害，所以我們必須要求這個部分與國安單位實質地沙盤推演。我要請教國土辦與經濟部針對這件事情有沒有直接演練過？大概是幾次？不用給我正確數字，只要告訴我大概是多少次？"],["王部長美花：這個部分確實是有演練，因為經濟部負責的關鍵基礎設施，水、電及煉油廠等等，所以經濟部都有參與關鍵基礎設施韌性及安全的演練，我們也會確實執行這個部分。"],["陳委員冠廷：是，謝謝部長。我希望接下來針對發電廠、天然氣接收站、煉油廠及自來水廠都必須要有完整的演練。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：希望讓下一個部長不要在特定時間，而是隨時都必須做好準備，不要先講好哪個時間點，把那個狀態直接就給演練的狀況，也就是不要事先演練安排，而是做好突發事件準備的這種演練。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：我希望能做好這個部分。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：因為要攻擊臺灣的基礎建設、基礎設施所造成的影響層面是太多、太大了，我們也不希望因為這個東西的存在，而國土辦這個幕僚單位的預算就是這麼少，變成它也只能做政策上的宣示，執行上還是要由各部會去做。"],["王部長美花：會，各部會會有，現在相關的保二也會進駐，這個都會一起把它做得更好。"],["陳委員冠廷：對，如果這個東西配合錯假亂訊息的話，將會影響到社會各個層面。我們剛剛講天然氣廠、我們剛剛講煉油廠，現在我就看到很多鄉親都在傳一些假訊息，像是大爆炸會對我們影響多大，這類錯假亂訊息不斷在宣傳，所以我還是強調因應錯假亂訊息的最好方式就是做好自己的韌性準備，在做好自己的韌性準備之後也是要透過不同的媒體管道、社群媒體管道告訴大家我們已經做好準備。有些人說怎麼準備、怎麼巡守都是屬於機密，但是不一定，為什麼要這麼講？當你做好韌性上的準備，並且透過正確的管道向民眾傳遞的話，同時也是一個震懾效應，這個震懾的意義在於讓有志於破壞我國基礎建設的人、團體，甚至是國家勢力知道我們真的有認真對待這件事情，謝謝部長。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":510,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-10","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","謝衣鳯","賴士葆","邱議瑩","張智倫","郭國文","陳亭妃","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:33,531\n不要說是資安防護我們沒有講到那邊喔講到是最簡單的門禁的檢查器具的使用目標地的存在就是說你為什麼會在那個時間點在那個地方不應該在授權的時間點出現在那個地方就應該被禁止這個東西我們沒有做得比較完善那我們不是要苛責這個國安單位因為\n\n5\n00:01:51,201 --> 00:02:13,666\n天然氣我們還是有一個優先的方案出來那當然經濟部是主管單位所以我昨天問國土辦的時候國土辦給我的回答是說主要他們大概也只有十幾十幾個人人力而已那他們的預算大概也是數百萬元而已等於說他沒有辦法做一個完整的執行嘛因為他是幕僚單位所以執行的部分就等於是由各個部門去處理\n\n6\n00:02:14,666 --> 00:02:40,695\n對,這件事情我是很重要的這是一個未來的基礎設施是非常重要的那特別是我們接下來的部長應該就是葉建樹來的他當然知道說只要某一個小時的斷電它造成的影響是有多大那有的時候斷電是因為跳電或者是一些自然的災害那無可厚非嘛那就變成要做應變機制就是做減災的部分可是在防範的部分已經出現多次都是用非常低科技的方式就是我們想像\n\n7\n00:02:57,180 --> 00:03:06,542\n幾次?大概是幾次?不用給我正確數字,大概只要給我大概是多少?是,那這個部分的演練確實有,那因為經濟部負責的關鍵基礎設施水、電,還有這個煉油廠等等,所以經濟部都有參與這樣的一個關鍵基礎設施韌性以及安全的演練,那這個部分確實我們會來執行。謝謝部長,我希望說接下來針對這個發電廠、天然氣節奏站、煉油廠、自來水廠,\n\n8\n00:03:24,646 --> 00:03:52,166\n這個必須要完整的有一個演練希望讓下一個部長他能夠不經應該是說不要在特定時間就是隨時都必須要做好準備甚至是有不要先講好哪一個時間點把那個situation就是直接把那個狀態就直接給演練的狀況就是不要先事先演練安排而是做好突發事件的做好準備的這種演練這個部分我是希望可以做好這個部分因為特別\n\n9\n00:03:53,287 --> 00:04:08,520\n因為要攻擊台灣的基礎建設基礎設施它所造成的影響層面是太多太大了那我們也不希望說因為這個東西的存在國土辦的這個幕僚單位的預算就是這麼少\n\n10\n00:04:09,141 --> 00:04:25,767\n所以變成是說他也只能做政策上面的宣示啦,執行上面還是由各部會要去做。各部會會有,那現在的相關的寶二的這個相關的這個也會進來進駐,那這個會一起來把它做得更好。\n\n11\n00:04:26,327 --> 00:04:40,663\n對,而且這個東西如果配合錯假亂訊息的話,那個影響層面是到社會各個層面的,特別我們剛剛講煉油廠,我們剛剛講天然氣廠,那我現在就看到很多我們的鄉親又在傳一些假訊息,說我那個這大暴躁的話會對這個我們的影響多大,開始這種\n\n12\n00:04:43,286 --> 00:05:03,844\n錯假斷訊又在不斷的在宣傳所以我還是強調說因應錯假斷訊的最好方式就是做好自己的任性準備那做好自己的任性準備之後也是要透過各個不同的媒體管道社群媒體管道告訴大家說我們做好準備那有些人說這個是機密上面啊什麼我們怎麼樣準備怎麼樣尋守這個機密但不一定為什麼要這麼講\n\n13\n00:05:04,825 --> 00:05:24,541\n當你做好任性上面的準備並且透過正確的管道跟民眾傳遞的話,同時也是一個震懾效應。這個震懾的意義在於說讓有致於破壞我國基礎建設的人、團體甚至是國家勢力知道說我們真的有把這件事情認真對待。謝謝部長。是。謝謝。好,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n441\t2023\t接下來我們請陳冠廷委員請做詢談。\n21138\t43557\t部長好,今天要諮詢的部分可能也要麻煩成為重要的交接事項,主要是針對基礎設施的部分。昨天我們在國防外交委員會針對國土辦提到一些重點的基礎建設、基礎設施的韌性。我們回顧這8年,2017年的時候有全台大停電的事件。\n43837\t69527\t那當然是因為包商的關係那導致天然氣供氣中斷那這個機組的停止運作那2022年3月11號這個就比較是它不是所謂高科技上面的危害就很簡單的非常low tech的就是桃園機場的電纜遭到包商的人員意外的剪斷那整個機場就停電了所以從這兩個案例來看我可以看到說我們不管是發電廠機場這些重要的基礎設施來說的話\n72930\t93531\t不要說是資安防護我們沒有講到那邊喔講到是最簡單的門禁的檢查器具的使用目標地的存在就是說你為什麼會在那個時間點在那個地方不應該在授權的時間點出現在那個地方就應該被禁止這個東西我們沒有做得比較完善那我們不是要苛責這個國安單位因為\n95913\t111101\t\n111201\t133666\t天然氣我們還是有一個優先的方案出來那當然經濟部是主管單位所以我昨天問國土辦的時候國土辦給我的回答是說主要他們大概也只有十幾十幾個人人力而已那他們的預算大概也是數百萬元而已等於說他沒有辦法做一個完整的執行嘛因為他是幕僚單位所以執行的部分就等於是由各個部門去處理\n134666\t160695\t對,這件事情我是很重要的這是一個未來的基礎設施是非常重要的那特別是我們接下來的部長應該就是葉建樹來的他當然知道說只要某一個小時的斷電它造成的影響是有多大那有的時候斷電是因為跳電或者是一些自然的災害那無可厚非嘛那就變成要做應變機制就是做減災的部分可是在防範的部分已經出現多次都是用非常低科技的方式就是我們想像\n161015\t176800\t\n177180\t186542\t幾次?大概是幾次?不用給我正確數字,大概只要給我大概是多少?是,那這個部分的演練確實有,那因為經濟部負責的關鍵基礎設施水、電,還有這個煉油廠等等,所以經濟部都有參與這樣的一個關鍵基礎設施韌性以及安全的演練,那這個部分確實我們會來執行。謝謝部長,我希望說接下來針對這個發電廠、天然氣節奏站、煉油廠、自來水廠,\n204646\t232166\t這個必須要完整的有一個演練希望讓下一個部長他能夠不經應該是說不要在特定時間就是隨時都必須要做好準備甚至是有不要先講好哪一個時間點把那個situation就是直接把那個狀態就直接給演練的狀況就是不要先事先演練安排而是做好突發事件的做好準備的這種演練這個部分我是希望可以做好這個部分因為特別\n233287\t248520\t因為要攻擊台灣的基礎建設基礎設施它所造成的影響層面是太多太大了那我們也不希望說因為這個東西的存在國土辦的這個幕僚單位的預算就是這麼少\n249141\t265767\t所以變成是說他也只能做政策上面的宣示啦,執行上面還是由各部會要去做。各部會會有,那現在的相關的寶二的這個相關的這個也會進來進駐,那這個會一起來把它做得更好。\n266327\t280663\t對,而且這個東西如果配合錯假亂訊息的話,那個影響層面是到社會各個層面的,特別我們剛剛講煉油廠,我們剛剛講天然氣廠,那我現在就看到很多我們的鄉親又在傳一些假訊息,說我那個這大暴躁的話會對這個我們的影響多大,開始這種\n283286\t303844\t錯假斷訊又在不斷的在宣傳所以我還是強調說因應錯假斷訊的最好方式就是做好自己的任性準備那做好自己的任性準備之後也是要透過各個不同的媒體管道社群媒體管道告訴大家說我們做好準備那有些人說這個是機密上面啊什麼我們怎麼樣準備怎麼樣尋守這個機密但不一定為什麼要這麼講\n304825\t324541\t當你做好任性上面的準備並且透過正確的管道跟民眾傳遞的話,同時也是一個震懾效應。這個震懾的意義在於說讓有致於破壞我國基礎建設的人、團體甚至是國家勢力知道說我們真的有把這件事情認真對待。謝謝部長。是。謝謝。好,謝謝。\n","txt":"接下來我們請陳冠廷委員請做詢談。\n部長好,今天要諮詢的部分可能也要麻煩成為重要的交接事項,主要是針對基礎設施的部分。昨天我們在國防外交委員會針對國土辦提到一些重點的基礎建設、基礎設施的韌性。我們回顧這8年,2017年的時候有全台大停電的事件。\n那當然是因為包商的關係那導致天然氣供氣中斷那這個機組的停止運作那2022年3月11號這個就比較是它不是所謂高科技上面的危害就很簡單的非常low tech的就是桃園機場的電纜遭到包商的人員意外的剪斷那整個機場就停電了所以從這兩個案例來看我可以看到說我們不管是發電廠機場這些重要的基礎設施來說的話\n不要說是資安防護我們沒有講到那邊喔講到是最簡單的門禁的檢查器具的使用目標地的存在就是說你為什麼會在那個時間點在那個地方不應該在授權的時間點出現在那個地方就應該被禁止這個東西我們沒有做得比較完善那我們不是要苛責這個國安單位因為\n\n天然氣我們還是有一個優先的方案出來那當然經濟部是主管單位所以我昨天問國土辦的時候國土辦給我的回答是說主要他們大概也只有十幾十幾個人人力而已那他們的預算大概也是數百萬元而已等於說他沒有辦法做一個完整的執行嘛因為他是幕僚單位所以執行的部分就等於是由各個部門去處理\n對,這件事情我是很重要的這是一個未來的基礎設施是非常重要的那特別是我們接下來的部長應該就是葉建樹來的他當然知道說只要某一個小時的斷電它造成的影響是有多大那有的時候斷電是因為跳電或者是一些自然的災害那無可厚非嘛那就變成要做應變機制就是做減災的部分可是在防範的部分已經出現多次都是用非常低科技的方式就是我們想像\n\n幾次?大概是幾次?不用給我正確數字,大概只要給我大概是多少?是,那這個部分的演練確實有,那因為經濟部負責的關鍵基礎設施水、電,還有這個煉油廠等等,所以經濟部都有參與這樣的一個關鍵基礎設施韌性以及安全的演練,那這個部分確實我們會來執行。謝謝部長,我希望說接下來針對這個發電廠、天然氣節奏站、煉油廠、自來水廠,\n這個必須要完整的有一個演練希望讓下一個部長他能夠不經應該是說不要在特定時間就是隨時都必須要做好準備甚至是有不要先講好哪一個時間點把那個situation就是直接把那個狀態就直接給演練的狀況就是不要先事先演練安排而是做好突發事件的做好準備的這種演練這個部分我是希望可以做好這個部分因為特別\n因為要攻擊台灣的基礎建設基礎設施它所造成的影響層面是太多太大了那我們也不希望說因為這個東西的存在國土辦的這個幕僚單位的預算就是這麼少\n所以變成是說他也只能做政策上面的宣示啦,執行上面還是由各部會要去做。各部會會有,那現在的相關的寶二的這個相關的這個也會進來進駐,那這個會一起來把它做得更好。\n對,而且這個東西如果配合錯假亂訊息的話,那個影響層面是到社會各個層面的,特別我們剛剛講煉油廠,我們剛剛講天然氣廠,那我現在就看到很多我們的鄉親又在傳一些假訊息,說我那個這大暴躁的話會對這個我們的影響多大,開始這種\n錯假斷訊又在不斷的在宣傳所以我還是強調說因應錯假斷訊的最好方式就是做好自己的任性準備那做好自己的任性準備之後也是要透過各個不同的媒體管道社群媒體管道告訴大家說我們做好準備那有些人說這個是機密上面啊什麼我們怎麼樣準備怎麼樣尋守這個機密但不一定為什麼要這麼講\n當你做好任性上面的準備並且透過正確的管道跟民眾傳遞的話,同時也是一個震懾效應。這個震懾的意義在於說讓有致於破壞我國基礎建設的人、團體甚至是國家勢力知道說我們真的有把這件事情認真對待。謝謝部長。是。謝謝。好,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.441 --> 00:02.023\n接下來我們請陳冠廷委員請做詢談。\n\n00:21.138 --> 00:43.557\n部長好,今天要諮詢的部分可能也要麻煩成為重要的交接事項,主要是針對基礎設施的部分。昨天我們在國防外交委員會針對國土辦提到一些重點的基礎建設、基礎設施的韌性。我們回顧這8年,2017年的時候有全台大停電的事件。\n\n00:43.837 --> 01:09.527\n那當然是因為包商的關係那導致天然氣供氣中斷那這個機組的停止運作那2022年3月11號這個就比較是它不是所謂高科技上面的危害就很簡單的非常lowtech的就是桃園機場的電纜遭到包商的人員意外的剪斷那整個機場就停電了所以從這兩個案例來看我可以看到說我們不管是發電廠機場這些重要的基礎設施來說的話\n\n01:12.930 --> 01:33.531\n不要說是資安防護我們沒有講到那邊喔講到是最簡單的門禁的檢查器具的使用目標地的存在就是說你為什麼會在那個時間點在那個地方不應該在授權的時間點出現在那個地方就應該被禁止這個東西我們沒有做得比較完善那我們不是要苛責這個國安單位因為\n\n01:51.201 --> 02:13.666\n天然氣我們還是有一個優先的方案出來那當然經濟部是主管單位所以我昨天問國土辦的時候國土辦給我的回答是說主要他們大概也只有十幾十幾個人人力而已那他們的預算大概也是數百萬元而已等於說他沒有辦法做一個完整的執行嘛因為他是幕僚單位所以執行的部分就等於是由各個部門去處理\n\n02:14.666 --> 02:40.695\n對,這件事情我是很重要的這是一個未來的基礎設施是非常重要的那特別是我們接下來的部長應該就是葉建樹來的他當然知道說只要某一個小時的斷電它造成的影響是有多大那有的時候斷電是因為跳電或者是一些自然的災害那無可厚非嘛那就變成要做應變機制就是做減災的部分可是在防範的部分已經出現多次都是用非常低科技的方式就是我們想像\n\n02:57.180 --> 03:06.542\n幾次?大概是幾次?不用給我正確數字,大概只要給我大概是多少?是,那這個部分的演練確實有,那因為經濟部負責的關鍵基礎設施水、電,還有這個煉油廠等等,所以經濟部都有參與這樣的一個關鍵基礎設施韌性以及安全的演練,那這個部分確實我們會來執行。謝謝部長,我希望說接下來針對這個發電廠、天然氣節奏站、煉油廠、自來水廠,\n\n03:24.646 --> 03:52.166\n這個必須要完整的有一個演練希望讓下一個部長他能夠不經應該是說不要在特定時間就是隨時都必須要做好準備甚至是有不要先講好哪一個時間點把那個situation就是直接把那個狀態就直接給演練的狀況就是不要先事先演練安排而是做好突發事件的做好準備的這種演練這個部分我是希望可以做好這個部分因為特別\n\n03:53.287 --> 04:08.520\n因為要攻擊台灣的基礎建設基礎設施它所造成的影響層面是太多太大了那我們也不希望說因為這個東西的存在國土辦的這個幕僚單位的預算就是這麼少\n\n04:09.141 --> 04:25.767\n所以變成是說他也只能做政策上面的宣示啦,執行上面還是由各部會要去做。各部會會有,那現在的相關的寶二的這個相關的這個也會進來進駐,那這個會一起來把它做得更好。\n\n04:26.327 --> 04:40.663\n對,而且這個東西如果配合錯假亂訊息的話,那個影響層面是到社會各個層面的,特別我們剛剛講煉油廠,我們剛剛講天然氣廠,那我現在就看到很多我們的鄉親又在傳一些假訊息,說我那個這大暴躁的話會對這個我們的影響多大,開始這種\n\n04:43.286 --> 05:03.844\n錯假斷訊又在不斷的在宣傳所以我還是強調說因應錯假斷訊的最好方式就是做好自己的任性準備那做好自己的任性準備之後也是要透過各個不同的媒體管道社群媒體管道告訴大家說我們做好準備那有些人說這個是機密上面啊什麼我們怎麼樣準備怎麼樣尋守這個機密但不一定為什麼要這麼講\n\n05:04.825 --> 05:24.541\n當你做好任性上面的準備並且透過正確的管道跟民眾傳遞的話,同時也是一個震懾效應。這個震懾的意義在於說讓有致於破壞我國基礎建設的人、團體甚至是國家勢力知道說我們真的有把這件事情認真對待。謝謝部長。是。謝謝。好,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.441,"end":2.023,"text":"接下來我們請陳冠廷委員請做詢談。"},{"start":21.138,"end":43.557,"text":"部長好,今天要諮詢的部分可能也要麻煩成為重要的交接事項,主要是針對基礎設施的部分。昨天我們在國防外交委員會針對國土辦提到一些重點的基礎建設、基礎設施的韌性。我們回顧這8年,2017年的時候有全台大停電的事件。"},{"start":43.837,"end":69.527,"text":"那當然是因為包商的關係那導致天然氣供氣中斷那這個機組的停止運作那2022年3月11號這個就比較是它不是所謂高科技上面的危害就很簡單的非常low tech的就是桃園機場的電纜遭到包商的人員意外的剪斷那整個機場就停電了所以從這兩個案例來看我可以看到說我們不管是發電廠機場這些重要的基礎設施來說的話"},{"start":72.93,"end":93.531,"text":"不要說是資安防護我們沒有講到那邊喔講到是最簡單的門禁的檢查器具的使用目標地的存在就是說你為什麼會在那個時間點在那個地方不應該在授權的時間點出現在那個地方就應該被禁止這個東西我們沒有做得比較完善那我們不是要苛責這個國安單位因為"},{"start":95.913,"end":111.101,"text":""},{"start":111.201,"end":133.666,"text":"天然氣我們還是有一個優先的方案出來那當然經濟部是主管單位所以我昨天問國土辦的時候國土辦給我的回答是說主要他們大概也只有十幾十幾個人人力而已那他們的預算大概也是數百萬元而已等於說他沒有辦法做一個完整的執行嘛因為他是幕僚單位所以執行的部分就等於是由各個部門去處理"},{"start":134.666,"end":160.695,"text":"對,這件事情我是很重要的這是一個未來的基礎設施是非常重要的那特別是我們接下來的部長應該就是葉建樹來的他當然知道說只要某一個小時的斷電它造成的影響是有多大那有的時候斷電是因為跳電或者是一些自然的災害那無可厚非嘛那就變成要做應變機制就是做減災的部分可是在防範的部分已經出現多次都是用非常低科技的方式就是我們想像"},{"start":161.015,"end":176.8,"text":""},{"start":177.18,"end":186.542,"text":"幾次?大概是幾次?不用給我正確數字,大概只要給我大概是多少?是,那這個部分的演練確實有,那因為經濟部負責的關鍵基礎設施水、電,還有這個煉油廠等等,所以經濟部都有參與這樣的一個關鍵基礎設施韌性以及安全的演練,那這個部分確實我們會來執行。謝謝部長,我希望說接下來針對這個發電廠、天然氣節奏站、煉油廠、自來水廠,"},{"start":204.646,"end":232.166,"text":"這個必須要完整的有一個演練希望讓下一個部長他能夠不經應該是說不要在特定時間就是隨時都必須要做好準備甚至是有不要先講好哪一個時間點把那個situation就是直接把那個狀態就直接給演練的狀況就是不要先事先演練安排而是做好突發事件的做好準備的這種演練這個部分我是希望可以做好這個部分因為特別"},{"start":233.287,"end":248.52,"text":"因為要攻擊台灣的基礎建設基礎設施它所造成的影響層面是太多太大了那我們也不希望說因為這個東西的存在國土辦的這個幕僚單位的預算就是這麼少"},{"start":249.141,"end":265.767,"text":"所以變成是說他也只能做政策上面的宣示啦,執行上面還是由各部會要去做。各部會會有,那現在的相關的寶二的這個相關的這個也會進來進駐,那這個會一起來把它做得更好。"},{"start":266.327,"end":280.663,"text":"對,而且這個東西如果配合錯假亂訊息的話,那個影響層面是到社會各個層面的,特別我們剛剛講煉油廠,我們剛剛講天然氣廠,那我現在就看到很多我們的鄉親又在傳一些假訊息,說我那個這大暴躁的話會對這個我們的影響多大,開始這種"},{"start":283.286,"end":303.844,"text":"錯假斷訊又在不斷的在宣傳所以我還是強調說因應錯假斷訊的最好方式就是做好自己的任性準備那做好自己的任性準備之後也是要透過各個不同的媒體管道社群媒體管道告訴大家說我們做好準備那有些人說這個是機密上面啊什麼我們怎麼樣準備怎麼樣尋守這個機密但不一定為什麼要這麼講"},{"start":304.825,"end":324.541,"text":"當你做好任性上面的準備並且透過正確的管道跟民眾傳遞的話,同時也是一個震懾效應。這個震懾的意義在於說讓有致於破壞我國基礎建設的人、團體甚至是國家勢力知道說我們真的有把這件事情認真對待。謝謝部長。是。謝謝。好,謝謝。"}]}}}}