{"id":152110,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152110","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1ff385691be91af7a0cbbe991ada1931c55be169921a0a717189f078c6ac0d1bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃仁","委員發言時間":"12:19:25 - 12:24:36","影片長度":"00:05:11","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部列席就「『偏遠地區學校教育發展條例』施行迄今之成效及檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員魯明哲等24人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員馬文君等17人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條及第十九條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員盧縣一等20人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條、第十二條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月29日及5月2日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":311,"end_time":"2024-05-02T12:24:36+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T12:19:25+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":939,"blocks":[["黃委員仁：（12時19分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：好，我們請潘部長，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：黃委員好。"],["黃委員仁：部長，我一直百思不解、一直想要問的是什麼？我們過去到現在一直說要進入到原住民的實驗學校，所謂實驗學校的定義在哪裡，你回答一下。"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，我們本來就有實驗教育三法，當初整個在推動時，確實有很多部落的學校希望原住民文化語言這些能夠在課程當中有所突破，所以現在他們也可以適用這樣的法。"],["黃委員仁：好，部長，我們現在是用一個對談的方式，中華民國來到臺灣是民國幾年？原住民在過去到現在，是在中華民國之前還是之後？"],["潘部長文忠：原住民當然更早了。"],["黃委員仁：好，請問一下，我們要用實驗的方式嗎？我們用這樣的講法好了，要用實驗的方式嗎？因為應該是你們漢人要學習我們原住民的文化，這是一個尊重，但是現在要用實驗？我們反觀國際上這些國家對原住民的尊重，例如紐西蘭的毛利人，紐西蘭設立了屬於他們的專屬，因為他們尊重原住民文化的定義跟精神。今天我看了這個，根本就是把我們原住民當實驗看待的角色，過去日本時代的時候是以番治番，現在的教育是以番治政，為什麼老是要用這種態度對待我們原住民的教育？一直以來，我們希望、呼籲我們有專屬、獨立的一個原住民完全中學，原因就在這裡。第二個，十二年國民教育，本來就應該照著我們國民教育的這些教育政策來遵行，但是對原住民專屬的獨立學校、完全中學也應予以尊重。我們看一看國教署給本席你們過去所推動的資料，目前原民實驗學校小學共有38所，中學僅有5所，到了高中只剩下1所，銜接不起來嘛！為什麼？國小既然已經有38所的實驗學校，到了國民中學也應該是38所，到了高中也應該是38所，為什麼到了後面只剩下1所？所以這就是我常常談的原住民族教育法要趕快通過，本席在上任之後已經草擬了這些草案，包括原住民族教育法、原住民族學校法，原住民族教育法已經通過了，學校法現在要等著，為什麼？因為它的施行細則在裡面，但是我請部長要特別重視，原住民的教育一定要予以尊重，完全中學從幼稚園、國小、國中、高中，應該受保障，因為它有16族在裡面，要彼此尊重它的教育跟文化的延續，這就是我們一直強調的，我們不是被開刀實踐出來的原住民，我們應該要尊重原住民的最根本，這才是真正要去執行的，好不好？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，原住民族學校法部分，中央主責機關是原民會，教育部之前負責的是原住民族教育法，原住民族教育法已經修定公布了。"],["黃委員仁：所以我跟你講，請放手給原民會去做嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：永遠放手啊！我們就不會去拉它了！"],["黃委員仁：不要老是卡關在你們這個地方，老是實驗、實驗，實驗什麼！"],["潘部長文忠：沒有啦，委員，那個實驗教育沒有誣衊任何人，那個是一種理念的學校，現在我們部落的學校……"],["黃委員仁：應該改掉實驗，好不好？應該改掉實驗，我們不是被實驗……"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，這個原住民族學校法是由原民會在主政，如果原民會繼續推動，然後儘快發布，我想學校、中央跟地方一定會全力支持。"],["黃委員仁：好。"],["主席：好，謝謝兩位。","接下來我們請伍麗華委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":378,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","盧縣一","萬美玲","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","陳培瑜","葉元之","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","吳春城","林倩綺","徐富癸","何欣純","黃仁","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鍾佳濱","范雲","邱志偉","黃珊珊","劉建國"],"page_start":311,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部列席就「『偏遠地區學校教育發展條例』施行迄今之成效及檢討」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修\n正草案」案、(二)委員魯明哲等24人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條條文修正草案」\n案、( 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00:00:36,350\n我一直百思不解地一直想要問的是什麼?我們在過去到現在一直說原住民是要進入到原住民的實驗學校。所謂的實驗學校的定義在哪裡?你來回答一下。\n\n3\n00:00:36,730 --> 00:00:56,046\n我跟委員報告那原來我們本來就有實驗教育三法啦那當時在整個推動確實有很多部落的學校他們希望能夠對於原住民族、文化、語言這些能夠在課程當中有所突破所以現在這個他們也可以適用這樣的法律部長我們現在是用一個對談的方式中華民國來到台灣是民國幾年\n\n4\n00:01:06,806 --> 00:01:32,948\n原住民在過去到現在是在中華民國之前還是之後?原住民當然更早了請問一下我們要用實驗的方式嗎?我們要用這樣的想法好了要用實驗的方式嗎?因為應該是你們漢人要學習我們原住民的文化這個是一個尊重但是現在要用實驗\n\n5\n00:01:34,844 --> 00:01:55,654\n我們訪觀一下去看一下國際的這些國家對原住民的尊重在毛利人在紐西蘭他們設立了他們有他們的屬於的專屬因為他們尊重了原住民的文化的定義跟精神今天我看了這個這個\n\n6\n00:01:57,875 --> 00:02:17,071\n這個根本就是把我們原住民當實驗看待的角色面嘛那過去日本時代的時候是以翻自翻現在的教育是以翻自正為什麼老師要用這種態度對我們原住民的教育\n\n7\n00:02:18,243 --> 00:02:35,723\n我們一直以來希望能夠呼籲我們有一個專屬獨立的一個原住民的完全中協原因就在這裡第二個國民教育的12年我們本來就應該照著我們國民教育的這些\n\n8\n00:02:37,044 --> 00:02:56,924\n教育來遵行,但是對原住民的專屬的獨立學校完全中協也應以尊重。我們看一看你們過去所推動的國教署給本席的資料目前原民10院學校小協共有38所,中協僅有5所。\n\n9\n00:02:59,912 --> 00:03:27,880\n到了高中只剩下一所,銜接不出來嘛。為什麼?你國小裡面竟然已經有38所的實驗學校,到了國民中學也應該是38所,到了高中也應該是38所,為什麼到了後面只剩下一所?所以這就是一個我要常常談的一個什麼?民主教育法\n\n10\n00:03:29,390 --> 00:03:57,824\n趕快通過本席就是在上任之後我已經草擬了這些草案民主教育法學校法民主教育法已經通過了民主教育法現在要等著為什麼因為它的實情細則在裡面但是我請部長特別要重視原住民的教育一定要尊重完全中寫從幼稚園、國小、國中、高中\n\n11\n00:03:59,260 --> 00:04:21,147\n應該受以保障因為它有16組在裡面在裡面彼此尊重它的教育跟它的文化的原性這就是我們要一直強調的我們不是開刀被實現出來的原住民我們應該要尊重原住民的最根本這才是真正要去執行的好不好\n\n12\n00:04:22,109 --> 00:04:36,268\n我跟委員報告原住民主學校法中央主責機關是原民會那教育部之前負責的是原住民主教育法原住民主教育法已經修訂公佈了所以我跟你講說請放手給原民會去做嘛\n\n13\n00:04:37,069 --> 00:04:46,113\n發展條例第八條條文修正草案案案。委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正�\n\n14\n00:05:10,401 --> 00:05:10,755\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t889\t請黃仁委員。謝謝主席。有請部長。好,我們請潘部長,謝謝。黃仁豪。部長。\n20402\t36350\t我一直百思不解地一直想要問的是什麼?我們在過去到現在一直說原住民是要進入到原住民的實驗學校。所謂的實驗學校的定義在哪裡?你來回答一下。\n36730\t56046\t我跟委員報告那原來我們本來就有實驗教育三法啦那當時在整個推動確實有很多部落的學校他們希望能夠對於原住民族、文化、語言這些能夠在課程當中有所突破所以現在這個他們也可以適用這樣的法律部長我們現在是用一個對談的方式中華民國來到台灣是民國幾年\n66806\t92948\t原住民在過去到現在是在中華民國之前還是之後?原住民當然更早了請問一下我們要用實驗的方式嗎?我們要用這樣的想法好了要用實驗的方式嗎?因為應該是你們漢人要學習我們原住民的文化這個是一個尊重但是現在要用實驗\n94844\t115654\t我們訪觀一下去看一下國際的這些國家對原住民的尊重在毛利人在紐西蘭他們設立了他們有他們的屬於的專屬因為他們尊重了原住民的文化的定義跟精神今天我看了這個這個\n117875\t137071\t這個根本就是把我們原住民當實驗看待的角色面嘛那過去日本時代的時候是以翻自翻現在的教育是以翻自正為什麼老師要用這種態度對我們原住民的教育\n138243\t155723\t我們一直以來希望能夠呼籲我們有一個專屬獨立的一個原住民的完全中協原因就在這裡第二個國民教育的12年我們本來就應該照著我們國民教育的這些\n157044\t176924\t教育來遵行,但是對原住民的專屬的獨立學校完全中協也應以尊重。我們看一看你們過去所推動的國教署給本席的資料目前原民10院學校小協共有38所,中協僅有5所。\n179912\t207880\t到了高中只剩下一所,銜接不出來嘛。為什麼?你國小裡面竟然已經有38所的實驗學校,到了國民中學也應該是38所,到了高中也應該是38所,為什麼到了後面只剩下一所?所以這就是一個我要常常談的一個什麼?民主教育法\n209390\t237824\t趕快通過本席就是在上任之後我已經草擬了這些草案民主教育法學校法民主教育法已經通過了民主教育法現在要等著為什麼因為它的實情細則在裡面但是我請部長特別要重視原住民的教育一定要尊重完全中寫從幼稚園、國小、國中、高中\n239260\t261147\t應該受以保障因為它有16組在裡面在裡面彼此尊重它的教育跟它的文化的原性這就是我們要一直強調的我們不是開刀被實現出來的原住民我們應該要尊重原住民的最根本這才是真正要去執行的好不好\n262109\t276268\t我跟委員報告原住民主學校法中央主責機關是原民會那教育部之前負責的是原住民主教育法原住民主教育法已經修訂公佈了所以我跟你講說請放手給原民會去做嘛\n277069\t286113\t發展條例第八條條文修正草案案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正�\n310401\t310755\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席\n","txt":"請黃仁委員。謝謝主席。有請部長。好,我們請潘部長,謝謝。黃仁豪。部長。\n我一直百思不解地一直想要問的是什麼?我們在過去到現在一直說原住民是要進入到原住民的實驗學校。所謂的實驗學校的定義在哪裡?你來回答一下。\n我跟委員報告那原來我們本來就有實驗教育三法啦那當時在整個推動確實有很多部落的學校他們希望能夠對於原住民族、文化、語言這些能夠在課程當中有所突破所以現在這個他們也可以適用這樣的法律部長我們現在是用一個對談的方式中華民國來到台灣是民國幾年\n原住民在過去到現在是在中華民國之前還是之後?原住民當然更早了請問一下我們要用實驗的方式嗎?我們要用這樣的想法好了要用實驗的方式嗎?因為應該是你們漢人要學習我們原住民的文化這個是一個尊重但是現在要用實驗\n我們訪觀一下去看一下國際的這些國家對原住民的尊重在毛利人在紐西蘭他們設立了他們有他們的屬於的專屬因為他們尊重了原住民的文化的定義跟精神今天我看了這個這個\n這個根本就是把我們原住民當實驗看待的角色面嘛那過去日本時代的時候是以翻自翻現在的教育是以翻自正為什麼老師要用這種態度對我們原住民的教育\n我們一直以來希望能夠呼籲我們有一個專屬獨立的一個原住民的完全中協原因就在這裡第二個國民教育的12年我們本來就應該照著我們國民教育的這些\n教育來遵行,但是對原住民的專屬的獨立學校完全中協也應以尊重。我們看一看你們過去所推動的國教署給本席的資料目前原民10院學校小協共有38所,中協僅有5所。\n到了高中只剩下一所,銜接不出來嘛。為什麼?你國小裡面竟然已經有38所的實驗學校,到了國民中學也應該是38所,到了高中也應該是38所,為什麼到了後面只剩下一所?所以這就是一個我要常常談的一個什麼?民主教育法\n趕快通過本席就是在上任之後我已經草擬了這些草案民主教育法學校法民主教育法已經通過了民主教育法現在要等著為什麼因為它的實情細則在裡面但是我請部長特別要重視原住民的教育一定要尊重完全中寫從幼稚園、國小、國中、高中\n應該受以保障因為它有16組在裡面在裡面彼此尊重它的教育跟它的文化的原性這就是我們要一直強調的我們不是開刀被實現出來的原住民我們應該要尊重原住民的最根本這才是真正要去執行的好不好\n我跟委員報告原住民主學校法中央主責機關是原民會那教育部之前負責的是原住民主教育法原住民主教育法已經修訂公佈了所以我跟你講說請放手給原民會去做嘛\n發展條例第八條條文修正草案案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正�\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:00.889\n請黃仁委員。謝謝主席。有請部長。好,我們請潘部長,謝謝。黃仁豪。部長。\n\n00:20.402 --> 00:36.350\n我一直百思不解地一直想要問的是什麼?我們在過去到現在一直說原住民是要進入到原住民的實驗學校。所謂的實驗學校的定義在哪裡?你來回答一下。\n\n00:36.730 --> 00:56.046\n我跟委員報告那原來我們本來就有實驗教育三法啦那當時在整個推動確實有很多部落的學校他們希望能夠對於原住民族、文化、語言這些能夠在課程當中有所突破所以現在這個他們也可以適用這樣的法律部長我們現在是用一個對談的方式中華民國來到台灣是民國幾年\n\n01:06.806 --> 01:32.948\n原住民在過去到現在是在中華民國之前還是之後?原住民當然更早了請問一下我們要用實驗的方式嗎?我們要用這樣的想法好了要用實驗的方式嗎?因為應該是你們漢人要學習我們原住民的文化這個是一個尊重但是現在要用實驗\n\n01:34.844 --> 01:55.654\n我們訪觀一下去看一下國際的這些國家對原住民的尊重在毛利人在紐西蘭他們設立了他們有他們的屬於的專屬因為他們尊重了原住民的文化的定義跟精神今天我看了這個這個\n\n01:57.875 --> 02:17.071\n這個根本就是把我們原住民當實驗看待的角色面嘛那過去日本時代的時候是以翻自翻現在的教育是以翻自正為什麼老師要用這種態度對我們原住民的教育\n\n02:18.243 --> 02:35.723\n我們一直以來希望能夠呼籲我們有一個專屬獨立的一個原住民的完全中協原因就在這裡第二個國民教育的12年我們本來就應該照著我們國民教育的這些\n\n02:37.044 --> 02:56.924\n教育來遵行,但是對原住民的專屬的獨立學校完全中協也應以尊重。我們看一看你們過去所推動的國教署給本席的資料目前原民10院學校小協共有38所,中協僅有5所。\n\n02:59.912 --> 03:27.880\n到了高中只剩下一所,銜接不出來嘛。為什麼?你國小裡面竟然已經有38所的實驗學校,到了國民中學也應該是38所,到了高中也應該是38所,為什麼到了後面只剩下一所?所以這就是一個我要常常談的一個什麼?民主教育法\n\n03:29.390 --> 03:57.824\n趕快通過本席就是在上任之後我已經草擬了這些草案民主教育法學校法民主教育法已經通過了民主教育法現在要等著為什麼因為它的實情細則在裡面但是我請部長特別要重視原住民的教育一定要尊重完全中寫從幼稚園、國小、國中、高中\n\n03:59.260 --> 04:21.147\n應該受以保障因為它有16組在裡面在裡面彼此尊重它的教育跟它的文化的原性這就是我們要一直強調的我們不是開刀被實現出來的原住民我們應該要尊重原住民的最根本這才是真正要去執行的好不好\n\n04:22.109 --> 04:36.268\n我跟委員報告原住民主學校法中央主責機關是原民會那教育部之前負責的是原住民主教育法原住民主教育法已經修訂公佈了所以我跟你講說請放手給原民會去做嘛\n\n04:37.069 --> 04:46.113\n發展條例第八條條文修正草案案案。委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案。委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正�\n\n05:10.401 --> 05:10.755\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.889,"text":"請黃仁委員。謝謝主席。有請部長。好,我們請潘部長,謝謝。黃仁豪。部長。"},{"start":20.402,"end":36.35,"text":"我一直百思不解地一直想要問的是什麼?我們在過去到現在一直說原住民是要進入到原住民的實驗學校。所謂的實驗學校的定義在哪裡?你來回答一下。"},{"start":36.73,"end":56.046,"text":"我跟委員報告那原來我們本來就有實驗教育三法啦那當時在整個推動確實有很多部落的學校他們希望能夠對於原住民族、文化、語言這些能夠在課程當中有所突破所以現在這個他們也可以適用這樣的法律部長我們現在是用一個對談的方式中華民國來到台灣是民國幾年"},{"start":66.806,"end":92.948,"text":"原住民在過去到現在是在中華民國之前還是之後?原住民當然更早了請問一下我們要用實驗的方式嗎?我們要用這樣的想法好了要用實驗的方式嗎?因為應該是你們漢人要學習我們原住民的文化這個是一個尊重但是現在要用實驗"},{"start":94.844,"end":115.654,"text":"我們訪觀一下去看一下國際的這些國家對原住民的尊重在毛利人在紐西蘭他們設立了他們有他們的屬於的專屬因為他們尊重了原住民的文化的定義跟精神今天我看了這個這個"},{"start":117.875,"end":137.071,"text":"這個根本就是把我們原住民當實驗看待的角色面嘛那過去日本時代的時候是以翻自翻現在的教育是以翻自正為什麼老師要用這種態度對我們原住民的教育"},{"start":138.243,"end":155.723,"text":"我們一直以來希望能夠呼籲我們有一個專屬獨立的一個原住民的完全中協原因就在這裡第二個國民教育的12年我們本來就應該照著我們國民教育的這些"},{"start":157.044,"end":176.924,"text":"教育來遵行,但是對原住民的專屬的獨立學校完全中協也應以尊重。我們看一看你們過去所推動的國教署給本席的資料目前原民10院學校小協共有38所,中協僅有5所。"},{"start":179.912,"end":207.88,"text":"到了高中只剩下一所,銜接不出來嘛。為什麼?你國小裡面竟然已經有38所的實驗學校,到了國民中學也應該是38所,到了高中也應該是38所,為什麼到了後面只剩下一所?所以這就是一個我要常常談的一個什麼?民主教育法"},{"start":209.39,"end":237.824,"text":"趕快通過本席就是在上任之後我已經草擬了這些草案民主教育法學校法民主教育法已經通過了民主教育法現在要等著為什麼因為它的實情細則在裡面但是我請部長特別要重視原住民的教育一定要尊重完全中寫從幼稚園、國小、國中、高中"},{"start":239.26,"end":261.147,"text":"應該受以保障因為它有16組在裡面在裡面彼此尊重它的教育跟它的文化的原性這就是我們要一直強調的我們不是開刀被實現出來的原住民我們應該要尊重原住民的最根本這才是真正要去執行的好不好"},{"start":262.109,"end":276.268,"text":"我跟委員報告原住民主學校法中央主責機關是原民會那教育部之前負責的是原住民主教育法原住民主教育法已經修訂公佈了所以我跟你講說請放手給原民會去做嘛"},{"start":277.069,"end":286.113,"text":"發展條例第八條條文修正草案案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案 案。 委員柯志恩等18人擬具:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正�"},{"start":310.401,"end":310.755,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席"}]}}}}