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12:24:56","影片長度":"00:05:14","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員柯志恩等17人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例增訂第三十六條之四條文草案」案。\n六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、本院國民黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n八、本院委員張智倫等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、本院委員王世堅等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員郭國文等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員邱議瑩等29人擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（詢答及處理，委員郭國文等人提案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查）【4月29日、5月1日及2日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-10"},"duration":314,"end_time":"2024-05-02T12:24:56+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T12:19:42+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":854,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（12時19分）謝謝主席，有請經濟部部長，謝謝。"],["主席：我們再請王部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，午安。快速地與部長討論一下，雖然我們是在教育文化委員會，但是我們認識非常非常多在第一線工作的家長，部長，你應該都知道，臺灣有非常多的中小企業承擔著臺灣經濟發展的責任，對嗎？"],["王部長美花：是的、是的。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們從家長的角度來看一些事情，這是目前國科會的科學技術統計要覽，我們發現未滿200人的中小企業整體研發經費，細節的部分就不講了，整個加起來其實不到10%。再加上經濟部的統計，中小企業有163萬家，在全國的全體企業占了98.9%，也就是說，有非常多的家長或是關心教育的人都是在中小企業工作，但是中小企業的穩定發展研發經費占比卻不高。部長，你認為這個有什麼問題？或是他們其實面臨了什麼樣的困境？"],["王部長美花：在中小企業中又有服務業及製造業，在製造業的部分，中小企業無論是人力也好、相關的經費也好，確實都比較有限，占比就會比較低一點。"],["陳委員培瑜：對，沒錯，部長，你講到很重要的問題。我們再來看另外一個，2月23日經濟日報的報導，中小企業發展條例與產創條例提供了研發租稅優惠，規定大致是相似的，在臺灣中小企業發展條例的研發門檻相對比較低，鼓勵中小企業去申請，這個報導說以臺北市為例，在2022年有73件適用中小企業研發投資減抵，我們來看這件事情，只看臺北市有73件，你認為如果類推到全臺灣，適用中小企業研發投資抵減的可能會有幾件？目前你們手上有相關數字嗎？"],["王部長美花：你說明一下，好不好？"],["何署長晉滄：報告委員，在這次的修法之後，我們預計每年申請的家數會有320件。"],["陳委員培瑜：預計三百多件？"],["何署長晉滄：目前大概是304件。"],["陳委員培瑜：但是我剛剛也給你一個數字，全臺灣有多少萬家中小企業，這個比例聽起來還是相對低，所以我們這邊想要建議，是否有機會為了整體經濟發展的永續，穩定中小企業相關人力及產能的發展，也提高中小企業研發的誘因，經濟部與財政部有沒有機會共同討論，進一步放寬中小企業研發租稅優惠的門檻？"],["王部長美花：我補充報告一下，事實上，中小企業的條例有研發，但是產創條例也有。"],["陳委員培瑜：是，沒錯。"],["王部長美花：剛才講的只有中小企業發展條例的件數，如果將產創的部分加起來，事實上件數應該是有1倍以上。第二個……"],["陳委員培瑜：但相對也還是低，部長。"],["王部長美花：是、是。"],["陳委員培瑜：而且如同你說的，你也知道他們的資源是不足的。"],["王部長美花：中小企業要提升的部分有很多個面向，有時候是商業模式、有時候是研發的部分。"],["陳委員培瑜：我相信部長聽起來是非常清楚，但我想是否有機會列為重要交接事宜，也就是把更多中小企業的聲音聽進去？當臺灣在追求科技發展的時候，絕對不要忘了臺灣中小企業絕對是重要的經濟發展命脈，對嗎？"],["王部長美花：是的、是的。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝部長。接下來我們要討論關於員工教育訓練的部分，我們也想建議是否有機會納入相關法規來討論？員工教育訓練的費用可不可以、有沒有機會列為抵減項目？怎麼說呢？我們來看一下，我們認為員工教育訓練的費用在某種程度上幾乎可以等同研究發展支出的成本，怎麼說？譬如所有中小企業都面臨數位轉型、淨零轉型的部分，而他們的員工也必須搭配所有相關專業知能，但是如果相關的員工教育訓練成本作為壓垮中小企業的最後一根稻草，我覺得大家都不樂見，所以有沒有機會由經濟部及財政部共同研商討論，在2、3個月之內給我們辦公室相關的報告，有沒有機會讓員工教育訓練成本納入作為抵減優惠的項目？"],["王部長美花：關於這個部分，目前無論是中小企業或是比較大的企業，員工教育訓練的費用都可以納為費用做稅務的抵減，所以沒有特別針對教育的訓練費用另外再加乘減除。"],["陳委員培瑜：如同我剛剛說的，面對AI數位轉型有非常多中小企業都非常焦慮、非常緊張，大家也都想要支持自己的員工，把員工的專業增能帶回企業、協助企業增長，但是如同你剛剛所說的，確實沒有在相關法規裡面，所以我們辦公室才會請部長積極列為重要交接事宜，甚至開啟相關討論，可以嗎？"],["王部長美花：是、是、是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝部長。"],["王部長美花：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們辦公室也會持續追蹤相關的議題，謝謝。"],["王部長美花：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝部長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請張嘉郡委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":510,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-10","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","謝衣鳯","賴士葆","邱議瑩","張智倫","郭國文","陳亭妃","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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307.308, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"蹤\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 307.308, \"end\": 307.328, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 307.328, \"end\": 307.368, \"score\": 0.488}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 307.368, \"end\": 307.388, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 307.388, \"end\": 307.488, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 307.488, \"end\": 307.528, \"score\": 0.492}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 307.528, \"end\": 307.548, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 313.104, \"end\": 313.246, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 313.246, \"end\": 313.369, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 313.369, \"end\": 313.511, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 313.511, \"end\": 313.654, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"俊\", \"start\": 313.654, \"end\": 313.756, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 313.756, \"end\": 313.776, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,174 --> 00:00:00,435\n陳培宇委員\n\n2\n00:00:21,282 --> 00:00:33,949\n部長吳安快速跟部長討論一下我們雖然在教育文化委員會可是我們認識非常非常多在第一線的工作的家長我想部長你應該都知道臺灣有非常多的中小企業其實承擔了臺灣經濟發展的責任對嗎?是的\n\n3\n00:00:37,390 --> 00:00:42,898\n我們從家長的角度來看一些事情,這個是目前國科會的科學技術統計要來,我們發現未滿200人的中小企業整體的研發經費,細節我就不講,整個加起來其實不到10%。\n\n4\n00:00:52,110 --> 00:01:09,518\n那再加上經濟部的統計,中小企業有163萬家,全國的全體企業占98.9%,也就是說有非常多的家長或是關心教育的人其實都在中小企業工作。可是中小企業的穩定發展研發經費占比卻不高。我覺得部長您覺得這是什麼問題?\n\n5\n00:01:12,278 --> 00:01:31,146\n但是他們其實面臨了什麼樣的困境?在中小企業裡面因為又有服務業跟製造業那在製造業的部分確實中小企業的人力也好相關的淨費也好比較有限那確實佔比就會比較低一點\n\n6\n00:01:32,046 --> 00:01:55,208\n那沒錯部長您講到很重要的問題那我們來看另外一個二月二十三號經濟日報的這個報導說中小企業發展條例跟產創條例提供了研發租稅優惠規定大致是相似在台灣的中小企業發展條例研發門檻相對比較低那鼓勵中小企業去申請那目前這個報導裡面說以台北市為例在2022年有73件適用中小企業研發投資檢體那我們來看這個事情\n\n7\n00:01:57,250 --> 00:02:11,100\n可是如果我們只看臺北市市73,您覺得如果類推到全臺灣,大概可以適用中小企業研發投資抵減,可能會有幾件?你們目前手上有相關數字嗎?來,你說明一下吧。\n\n8\n00:02:11,945 --> 00:02:22,450\n幫委員就是這一次我們修法之後我們會預計每年申請的加速會有320件預計300多件目前大概是304件可是我剛剛也給您一個數字全臺灣有多少萬中小企業那這個比例聽起來還是相對低那我們這邊想要建議有沒有機會為了整體的經濟發展的永續穩定中小企業相關的人力跟產能的發展也提高中小企業研發的誘因\n\n9\n00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:46,006\n經濟部跟財政部有沒有機會共同討論進一步放寬中小企業研發租稅優惠的門檻?\n\n10\n00:02:48,741 --> 00:03:11,250\n我補充報告一下,事實上中小企業的條例有研發,但是產創條例也有。所以剛才講的這個件數只有中小企業發展條例的。那產創的部分加起來的話,事實上件數應該是有一倍以上。但相對也還是低啦,部長。而且如同您說,您也知道他們的資源是不足的。\n\n11\n00:03:11,570 --> 00:03:33,166\n中小企業它要的這個提升的部分它有很多個面向它有時候是商業模式它有時候是研發的部分那我相信部長聽起來是非常清楚可是我想有沒有機會列為重要交接是就是把更多中小企業的聲音聽進去因為當台灣在追求整個科技發展的時候絕對不要忘了台灣中小企業絕對是重要的經濟發展命脈對嗎\n\n12\n00:03:34,767 --> 00:03:37,330\n關於員工教育訓練的部分,我們也想要建議有沒有機會納入相關法規來討論員工教育訓練的費用可不可以有沒有機會列為抵檢項目?我們認為員工教育訓練的費用\n\n13\n00:03:53,171 --> 00:04:20,479\nadequatetothecostofresearchanddevelopment.例如說所有中小企業都在面臨數位轉型、淨零轉型這個部分而他們的員工也必須搭配所有相關專業職能但是如果相關的員工教育訓練成本作為壓垮中小企業的最後一根稻草我覺得大家都不樂見所以有沒有機會由經濟部還有財政部這邊共同研商討論在兩三個月之內給我們辦公室相關的報告有沒有機會讓員工教育訓練這個成本納入作為抵減的優惠\n\n14\n00:04:25,441 --> 00:04:42,668\n這個部分因為目前就是不管是中小企業或者是比較大的企業那員工教育的訓練的費用都可以納為費用來做這個稅務的抵解所以沒有特別針對教育的訓練費用另外再加成減除\n\n15\n00:04:43,328 --> 00:05:07,548\n那如同我剛剛說的面對AI數位轉型我覺得非常多中小企業都非常焦慮跟緊張大家也都想要支持自己的員工然後把員工的專業增能帶回企業協助企業增長所以剛剛如同您說的確實沒有在相關法規裡面所以我們辦公室才會請部長來積極列為重要交接事宜甚至開啟相關討論可以嗎是是好那就謝謝部長那我們辦公室也會再持續追蹤相關的議題謝謝好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n16\n00:05:13,104 --> 00:05:13,776\n接下來我們請張家俊委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n174\t435\t陳培宇委員\n21282\t33949\t部長吳安快速跟部長討論一下我們雖然在教育文化委員會可是我們認識非常非常多在第一線的工作的家長我想部長你應該都知道臺灣有非常多的中小企業其實承擔了臺灣經濟發展的責任對嗎?是的\n37390\t42898\t我們從家長的角度來看一些事情,這個是目前國科會的科學技術統計要來,我們發現未滿200人的中小企業整體的研發經費,細節我就不講,整個加起來其實不到10%。\n52110\t69518\t那再加上經濟部的統計,中小企業有163萬家,全國的全體企業占98.9%,也就是說有非常多的家長或是關心教育的人其實都在中小企業工作。可是中小企業的穩定發展研發經費占比卻不高。我覺得部長您覺得這是什麼問題?\n72278\t91146\t但是他們其實面臨了什麼樣的困境?在中小企業裡面因為又有服務業跟製造業那在製造業的部分確實中小企業的人力也好相關的淨費也好比較有限那確實佔比就會比較低一點\n92046\t115208\t那沒錯部長您講到很重要的問題那我們來看另外一個二月二十三號經濟日報的這個報導說中小企業發展條例跟產創條例提供了研發租稅優惠規定大致是相似在台灣的中小企業發展條例研發門檻相對比較低那鼓勵中小企業去申請那目前這個報導裡面說以台北市為例在2022年有73件適用中小企業研發投資檢體那我們來看這個事情\n117250\t131100\t可是如果我們只看臺北市市73,您覺得如果類推到全臺灣,大概可以適用中小企業研發投資抵減,可能會有幾件?你們目前手上有相關數字嗎?來,你說明一下吧。\n131945\t142450\t幫委員就是這一次我們修法之後我們會預計每年申請的加速會有320件預計300多件目前大概是304件可是我剛剛也給您一個數字全臺灣有多少萬中小企業那這個比例聽起來還是相對低那我們這邊想要建議有沒有機會為了整體的經濟發展的永續穩定中小企業相關的人力跟產能的發展也提高中小企業研發的誘因\n160919\t166006\t經濟部跟財政部有沒有機會共同討論進一步放寬中小企業研發租稅優惠的門檻?\n168741\t191250\t我補充報告一下,事實上中小企業的條例有研發,但是產創條例也有。所以剛才講的這個件數只有中小企業發展條例的。那產創的部分加起來的話,事實上件數應該是有一倍以上。但相對也還是低啦,部長。而且如同您說,您也知道他們的資源是不足的。\n191570\t213166\t中小企業它要的這個提升的部分它有很多個面向它有時候是商業模式它有時候是研發的部分那我相信部長聽起來是非常清楚可是我想有沒有機會列為重要交接是就是把更多中小企業的聲音聽進去因為當台灣在追求整個科技發展的時候絕對不要忘了台灣中小企業絕對是重要的經濟發展命脈對嗎\n214767\t217330\t關於員工教育訓練的部分,我們也想要建議有沒有機會納入相關法規來討論員工教育訓練的費用可不可以有沒有機會列為抵檢項目?我們認為員工教育訓練的費用\n233171\t260479\tadequate to the cost of research and development.例如說所有中小企業都在面臨數位轉型、淨零轉型這個部分而他們的員工也必須搭配所有相關專業職能但是如果相關的員工教育訓練成本作為壓垮中小企業的最後一根稻草我覺得大家都不樂見所以有沒有機會由經濟部還有財政部這邊共同研商討論在兩三個月之內給我們辦公室相關的報告有沒有機會讓員工教育訓練這個成本納入作為抵減的優惠\n265441\t282668\t這個部分因為目前就是不管是中小企業或者是比較大的企業那員工教育的訓練的費用都可以納為費用來做這個稅務的抵解所以沒有特別針對教育的訓練費用另外再加成減除\n283328\t307548\t那如同我剛剛說的面對AI數位轉型我覺得非常多中小企業都非常焦慮跟緊張大家也都想要支持自己的員工然後把員工的專業增能帶回企業協助企業增長所以剛剛如同您說的確實沒有在相關法規裡面所以我們辦公室才會請部長來積極列為重要交接事宜甚至開啟相關討論可以嗎是是好那就謝謝部長那我們辦公室也會再持續追蹤相關的議題謝謝好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝\n313104\t313776\t接下來我們請張家俊委員\n","txt":"陳培宇委員\n部長吳安快速跟部長討論一下我們雖然在教育文化委員會可是我們認識非常非常多在第一線的工作的家長我想部長你應該都知道臺灣有非常多的中小企業其實承擔了臺灣經濟發展的責任對嗎?是的\n我們從家長的角度來看一些事情,這個是目前國科會的科學技術統計要來,我們發現未滿200人的中小企業整體的研發經費,細節我就不講,整個加起來其實不到10%。\n那再加上經濟部的統計,中小企業有163萬家,全國的全體企業占98.9%,也就是說有非常多的家長或是關心教育的人其實都在中小企業工作。可是中小企業的穩定發展研發經費占比卻不高。我覺得部長您覺得這是什麼問題?\n但是他們其實面臨了什麼樣的困境?在中小企業裡面因為又有服務業跟製造業那在製造業的部分確實中小企業的人力也好相關的淨費也好比較有限那確實佔比就會比較低一點\n那沒錯部長您講到很重要的問題那我們來看另外一個二月二十三號經濟日報的這個報導說中小企業發展條例跟產創條例提供了研發租稅優惠規定大致是相似在台灣的中小企業發展條例研發門檻相對比較低那鼓勵中小企業去申請那目前這個報導裡面說以台北市為例在2022年有73件適用中小企業研發投資檢體那我們來看這個事情\n可是如果我們只看臺北市市73,您覺得如果類推到全臺灣,大概可以適用中小企業研發投資抵減,可能會有幾件?你們目前手上有相關數字嗎?來,你說明一下吧。\n幫委員就是這一次我們修法之後我們會預計每年申請的加速會有320件預計300多件目前大概是304件可是我剛剛也給您一個數字全臺灣有多少萬中小企業那這個比例聽起來還是相對低那我們這邊想要建議有沒有機會為了整體的經濟發展的永續穩定中小企業相關的人力跟產能的發展也提高中小企業研發的誘因\n經濟部跟財政部有沒有機會共同討論進一步放寬中小企業研發租稅優惠的門檻?\n我補充報告一下,事實上中小企業的條例有研發,但是產創條例也有。所以剛才講的這個件數只有中小企業發展條例的。那產創的部分加起來的話,事實上件數應該是有一倍以上。但相對也還是低啦,部長。而且如同您說,您也知道他們的資源是不足的。\n中小企業它要的這個提升的部分它有很多個面向它有時候是商業模式它有時候是研發的部分那我相信部長聽起來是非常清楚可是我想有沒有機會列為重要交接是就是把更多中小企業的聲音聽進去因為當台灣在追求整個科技發展的時候絕對不要忘了台灣中小企業絕對是重要的經濟發展命脈對嗎\n關於員工教育訓練的部分,我們也想要建議有沒有機會納入相關法規來討論員工教育訓練的費用可不可以有沒有機會列為抵檢項目?我們認為員工教育訓練的費用\nadequate to the cost of research and development.例如說所有中小企業都在面臨數位轉型、淨零轉型這個部分而他們的員工也必須搭配所有相關專業職能但是如果相關的員工教育訓練成本作為壓垮中小企業的最後一根稻草我覺得大家都不樂見所以有沒有機會由經濟部還有財政部這邊共同研商討論在兩三個月之內給我們辦公室相關的報告有沒有機會讓員工教育訓練這個成本納入作為抵減的優惠\n這個部分因為目前就是不管是中小企業或者是比較大的企業那員工教育的訓練的費用都可以納為費用來做這個稅務的抵解所以沒有特別針對教育的訓練費用另外再加成減除\n那如同我剛剛說的面對AI數位轉型我覺得非常多中小企業都非常焦慮跟緊張大家也都想要支持自己的員工然後把員工的專業增能帶回企業協助企業增長所以剛剛如同您說的確實沒有在相關法規裡面所以我們辦公室才會請部長來積極列為重要交接事宜甚至開啟相關討論可以嗎是是好那就謝謝部長那我們辦公室也會再持續追蹤相關的議題謝謝好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝\n接下來我們請張家俊委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.174 --> 00:00.435\n陳培宇委員\n\n00:21.282 --> 00:33.949\n部長吳安快速跟部長討論一下我們雖然在教育文化委員會可是我們認識非常非常多在第一線的工作的家長我想部長你應該都知道臺灣有非常多的中小企業其實承擔了臺灣經濟發展的責任對嗎?是的\n\n00:37.390 --> 00:42.898\n我們從家長的角度來看一些事情,這個是目前國科會的科學技術統計要來,我們發現未滿200人的中小企業整體的研發經費,細節我就不講,整個加起來其實不到10%。\n\n00:52.110 --> 01:09.518\n那再加上經濟部的統計,中小企業有163萬家,全國的全體企業占98.9%,也就是說有非常多的家長或是關心教育的人其實都在中小企業工作。可是中小企業的穩定發展研發經費占比卻不高。我覺得部長您覺得這是什麼問題?\n\n01:12.278 --> 01:31.146\n但是他們其實面臨了什麼樣的困境?在中小企業裡面因為又有服務業跟製造業那在製造業的部分確實中小企業的人力也好相關的淨費也好比較有限那確實佔比就會比較低一點\n\n01:32.046 --> 01:55.208\n那沒錯部長您講到很重要的問題那我們來看另外一個二月二十三號經濟日報的這個報導說中小企業發展條例跟產創條例提供了研發租稅優惠規定大致是相似在台灣的中小企業發展條例研發門檻相對比較低那鼓勵中小企業去申請那目前這個報導裡面說以台北市為例在2022年有73件適用中小企業研發投資檢體那我們來看這個事情\n\n01:57.250 --> 02:11.100\n可是如果我們只看臺北市市73,您覺得如果類推到全臺灣,大概可以適用中小企業研發投資抵減,可能會有幾件?你們目前手上有相關數字嗎?來,你說明一下吧。\n\n02:11.945 --> 02:22.450\n幫委員就是這一次我們修法之後我們會預計每年申請的加速會有320件預計300多件目前大概是304件可是我剛剛也給您一個數字全臺灣有多少萬中小企業那這個比例聽起來還是相對低那我們這邊想要建議有沒有機會為了整體的經濟發展的永續穩定中小企業相關的人力跟產能的發展也提高中小企業研發的誘因\n\n02:40.919 --> 02:46.006\n經濟部跟財政部有沒有機會共同討論進一步放寬中小企業研發租稅優惠的門檻?\n\n02:48.741 --> 03:11.250\n我補充報告一下,事實上中小企業的條例有研發,但是產創條例也有。所以剛才講的這個件數只有中小企業發展條例的。那產創的部分加起來的話,事實上件數應該是有一倍以上。但相對也還是低啦,部長。而且如同您說,您也知道他們的資源是不足的。\n\n03:11.570 --> 03:33.166\n中小企業它要的這個提升的部分它有很多個面向它有時候是商業模式它有時候是研發的部分那我相信部長聽起來是非常清楚可是我想有沒有機會列為重要交接是就是把更多中小企業的聲音聽進去因為當台灣在追求整個科技發展的時候絕對不要忘了台灣中小企業絕對是重要的經濟發展命脈對嗎\n\n03:34.767 --> 03:37.330\n關於員工教育訓練的部分,我們也想要建議有沒有機會納入相關法規來討論員工教育訓練的費用可不可以有沒有機會列為抵檢項目?我們認為員工教育訓練的費用\n\n03:53.171 --> 04:20.479\nadequatetothecostofresearchanddevelopment.例如說所有中小企業都在面臨數位轉型、淨零轉型這個部分而他們的員工也必須搭配所有相關專業職能但是如果相關的員工教育訓練成本作為壓垮中小企業的最後一根稻草我覺得大家都不樂見所以有沒有機會由經濟部還有財政部這邊共同研商討論在兩三個月之內給我們辦公室相關的報告有沒有機會讓員工教育訓練這個成本納入作為抵減的優惠\n\n04:25.441 --> 04:42.668\n這個部分因為目前就是不管是中小企業或者是比較大的企業那員工教育的訓練的費用都可以納為費用來做這個稅務的抵解所以沒有特別針對教育的訓練費用另外再加成減除\n\n04:43.328 --> 05:07.548\n那如同我剛剛說的面對AI數位轉型我覺得非常多中小企業都非常焦慮跟緊張大家也都想要支持自己的員工然後把員工的專業增能帶回企業協助企業增長所以剛剛如同您說的確實沒有在相關法規裡面所以我們辦公室才會請部長來積極列為重要交接事宜甚至開啟相關討論可以嗎是是好那就謝謝部長那我們辦公室也會再持續追蹤相關的議題謝謝好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n05:13.104 --> 05:13.776\n接下來我們請張家俊委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.174,"end":0.435,"text":"陳培宇委員"},{"start":21.282,"end":33.949,"text":"部長吳安快速跟部長討論一下我們雖然在教育文化委員會可是我們認識非常非常多在第一線的工作的家長我想部長你應該都知道臺灣有非常多的中小企業其實承擔了臺灣經濟發展的責任對嗎?是的"},{"start":37.39,"end":42.898,"text":"我們從家長的角度來看一些事情,這個是目前國科會的科學技術統計要來,我們發現未滿200人的中小企業整體的研發經費,細節我就不講,整個加起來其實不到10%。"},{"start":52.11,"end":69.518,"text":"那再加上經濟部的統計,中小企業有163萬家,全國的全體企業占98.9%,也就是說有非常多的家長或是關心教育的人其實都在中小企業工作。可是中小企業的穩定發展研發經費占比卻不高。我覺得部長您覺得這是什麼問題?"},{"start":72.278,"end":91.146,"text":"但是他們其實面臨了什麼樣的困境?在中小企業裡面因為又有服務業跟製造業那在製造業的部分確實中小企業的人力也好相關的淨費也好比較有限那確實佔比就會比較低一點"},{"start":92.046,"end":115.208,"text":"那沒錯部長您講到很重要的問題那我們來看另外一個二月二十三號經濟日報的這個報導說中小企業發展條例跟產創條例提供了研發租稅優惠規定大致是相似在台灣的中小企業發展條例研發門檻相對比較低那鼓勵中小企業去申請那目前這個報導裡面說以台北市為例在2022年有73件適用中小企業研發投資檢體那我們來看這個事情"},{"start":117.25,"end":131.1,"text":"可是如果我們只看臺北市市73,您覺得如果類推到全臺灣,大概可以適用中小企業研發投資抵減,可能會有幾件?你們目前手上有相關數字嗎?來,你說明一下吧。"},{"start":131.945,"end":142.45,"text":"幫委員就是這一次我們修法之後我們會預計每年申請的加速會有320件預計300多件目前大概是304件可是我剛剛也給您一個數字全臺灣有多少萬中小企業那這個比例聽起來還是相對低那我們這邊想要建議有沒有機會為了整體的經濟發展的永續穩定中小企業相關的人力跟產能的發展也提高中小企業研發的誘因"},{"start":160.919,"end":166.006,"text":"經濟部跟財政部有沒有機會共同討論進一步放寬中小企業研發租稅優惠的門檻?"},{"start":168.741,"end":191.25,"text":"我補充報告一下,事實上中小企業的條例有研發,但是產創條例也有。所以剛才講的這個件數只有中小企業發展條例的。那產創的部分加起來的話,事實上件數應該是有一倍以上。但相對也還是低啦,部長。而且如同您說,您也知道他們的資源是不足的。"},{"start":191.57,"end":213.166,"text":"中小企業它要的這個提升的部分它有很多個面向它有時候是商業模式它有時候是研發的部分那我相信部長聽起來是非常清楚可是我想有沒有機會列為重要交接是就是把更多中小企業的聲音聽進去因為當台灣在追求整個科技發展的時候絕對不要忘了台灣中小企業絕對是重要的經濟發展命脈對嗎"},{"start":214.767,"end":217.33,"text":"關於員工教育訓練的部分,我們也想要建議有沒有機會納入相關法規來討論員工教育訓練的費用可不可以有沒有機會列為抵檢項目?我們認為員工教育訓練的費用"},{"start":233.171,"end":260.479,"text":"adequate to the cost of research and development.例如說所有中小企業都在面臨數位轉型、淨零轉型這個部分而他們的員工也必須搭配所有相關專業職能但是如果相關的員工教育訓練成本作為壓垮中小企業的最後一根稻草我覺得大家都不樂見所以有沒有機會由經濟部還有財政部這邊共同研商討論在兩三個月之內給我們辦公室相關的報告有沒有機會讓員工教育訓練這個成本納入作為抵減的優惠"},{"start":265.441,"end":282.668,"text":"這個部分因為目前就是不管是中小企業或者是比較大的企業那員工教育的訓練的費用都可以納為費用來做這個稅務的抵解所以沒有特別針對教育的訓練費用另外再加成減除"},{"start":283.328,"end":307.548,"text":"那如同我剛剛說的面對AI數位轉型我覺得非常多中小企業都非常焦慮跟緊張大家也都想要支持自己的員工然後把員工的專業增能帶回企業協助企業增長所以剛剛如同您說的確實沒有在相關法規裡面所以我們辦公室才會請部長來積極列為重要交接事宜甚至開啟相關討論可以嗎是是好那就謝謝部長那我們辦公室也會再持續追蹤相關的議題謝謝好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":313.104,"end":313.776,"text":"接下來我們請張家俊委員"}]}}}}