{"id":152114,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152114","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1b0b047ef2c3c2807e12ebde737ab3c1955be169921a0a71795660381a021fc6f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張嘉郡","委員發言時間":"12:24:57 - 12:33:24","影片長度":"00:08:27","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員柯志恩等17人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例增訂第三十六條之四條文草案」案。\n六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、本院國民黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n八、本院委員張智倫等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、本院委員王世堅等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員郭國文等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員邱議瑩等29人擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（詢答及處理，委員郭國文等人提案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查）【4月29日、5月1日及2日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-10"},"duration":507,"end_time":"2024-05-02T12:33:24+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T12:24:57+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":887,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（12時25分）主席，我想請部長。"],["主席：我們再請王部長。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長，對於本院的決議，應凍漲電價，經濟部是否已經準備好，就是不會遵守呢？"],["王部長美花：因為目前是按照電業法的規定，所以我們經濟部認為還是要按照法律規定執行相關的電價調整。"],["張委員嘉郡：不計任何代價、不願苦民所苦，就是不會遵守本院的決議，應該凍漲電價，是不是？"],["王部長美花：事實上，這次的電價調整有85%是由用電大戶負擔調漲的部分，如果凍漲電價反而會補貼到用電大戶、反而是一個更不平衡的情形。"],["張委員嘉郡：剛剛部長說要談法規，本席就與部長談一下電價審議委員會的規定，請問這次電價平均漲幅是多少呢？"],["王部長美花：我們這次全部加起來的漲幅應該是11%左右。"],["張委員嘉郡：11%左右？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["張委員嘉郡：以下的資源是來自於經濟部能源署有關電價審議的網頁，你可以看一下，在104年1月20日立法院決議事項的第三條寫著，設漲幅上限，半年調幅不得超過3%，全年累計調幅不得超過6%，這是在你們經濟部的網頁上公布的，請問經濟部有遵守這個條例嗎？"],["李副署長君禮：報告，這個是104年立法院的決議，正式入法是在106年的1月28日，立法之後就把這個權力交給電價審議委員會，由電價審議委員會來決定。"],["張委員嘉郡：你們想做的時候就說要遵守法規，你們不想遵守的時候就有非常多的理由。電業法第四十九條規定，費率是由主管機關核定公告，依照電業法第四十九條，電價審議結果出來之後，還是必須要經過經濟部的核定，所以過去才有連續凍漲啊！凍漲的時候不是都是依照電價公式計算出來的結果，而是經濟部政治決定的結果，所以經濟部不要再推給法律規定，因為第一，經濟部就未遵守3%的天花板規定；第二，經濟部有核定權，不是審議計算出來的結果就是最終結論，所以結論就是經濟部不願苦民所苦，一定要漲電價，是嗎？"],["李副署長君禮：報告委員，過去不管電價調整的……"],["張委員嘉郡：你是誰？"],["李副署長君禮：能源署副署長。"],["張委員嘉郡：好。"],["李副署長君禮：就是我們負責電價業務的執行……"],["張委員嘉郡：現在我問的是部長，我有請你上來嗎？"],["李副署長君禮：是。"],["王部長美花：報告委員，事實上，在我們電價審議時考慮的因素就包括照顧民生，所以過去幾次都是電價審議會決定最後要漲、不要漲或是漲百分之幾，然後報給……"],["張委員嘉郡：但你是有權力可以凍漲的啊！"],["王部長美花：沒有，事實上是電價審議會決議之後再報給經濟部做公告，所以都是電價審議會審議的結果。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長好幾次告訴我，因為國際上的天然氣價格大漲，所以我們台電才會虧損這麼多。部長可以看一下這個日韓指數的期貨價格，已經跌落到戰前的水準了，為什麼今年不漲電價還要大賠2,147億呢？"],["王部長美花：第一個，事實上，天然氣的部分有長約與現貨的部分。第二個……"],["張委員嘉郡：你覺得是我們買貴了嗎？"],["王部長美花：沒有、沒有，另外還有一個管道的天然氣，所以我不確定委員的這張圖是我們……"],["張委員嘉郡：這是日韓不靠輸氣管而是靠汽油輪的價格。"],["王部長美花：是。第二個……"],["張委員嘉郡：之前你說因為他們都有輸氣管，所以價格不一樣，現在這個是與臺灣條件相仿的，因此先前部長在2022年俄烏戰爭之後說我們買到比俄羅斯更便宜的天然氣，這個天然氣到哪裡去了？"],["王部長美花：那一次大家是問，如果我們不買俄羅斯而改買別的，別的是不是會比較貴，所以我們當時講的是中油公司向其他賣家買的天然氣沒有比俄羅斯貴，當時講的是這樣一個情境。後來這個……"],["張委員嘉郡：本席清楚期貨價格與你們的合約價格可能有所差異，但依照104年通過的電價審議委員會第六條，電價成本應該透明化，是不是請經濟部公布天然氣合約的價格，讓人民可以檢視，請問部長願意公布嗎？"],["王部長美花：這個是中油與外面廠商的相關合約，所以這個合約沒辦法，但是……"],["張委員嘉郡：是啊！中油是不是也歸你管的啊？"],["王部長美花：中油賣給台電或賣給……"],["張委員嘉郡：什麼時候可以公布？中油賣給台電比較貴，上次就已經說過了，所以中油到底買多少錢？"],["王部長美花：中油賣給台電、賣給工業、賣給家戶的價格，我們都可以讓大家知道，沒有問題。"],["張委員嘉郡：這是中油的部分，是不是應該把天然氣的合約的價格公布出來？因為我記得公布購買合約並不是沒有先例，在2012年時經濟部就曾主動公布台電的購煤合約，當時為什麼會公布，部長記得嗎？部長知道嗎？"],["王部長美花：那個時候我不曉得，我想可以……"],["張委員嘉郡：因為台電在2008年被舉發購買了昂貴的煤炭，而且簽了長約，當時監察院要調查，購煤的合約竟然失竊了，我不知道你記不記得？那時候有個新聞報導，監察院要調查這個購煤的合約，結果購煤的合約就失竊了，所以我也希望部長是不是能儘速公布天然氣的合約，而且在公布之前也要保障天然氣合約的安全，否則真的是非常地危險，怎麼一要調查，這個契約就遺失了。最後，本席也想問，究竟要漲電價是因為法規的關係，或是經濟部不願意苦民所苦？"],["王部長美花：事實上我也講過，這次的調漲有85%其實是由大的用戶承擔，所以……"],["張委員嘉郡：為什麼不凍漲民生電價呢？為什麼不凍漲？假設85%都是漲大的用戶，為什麼民生用電不能凍漲呢？"],["王部長美花：我們現在的民生用戶漲幅本來就比較小，而且……"],["張委員嘉郡：這是可以凍漲的嘛！影響也不大，為什麼不凍漲呢？"],["王部長美花：我們的成本都遠大於電價，所以這是台電經營上的問題。"],["張委員嘉郡：本席要呼籲部長，既然你說85%影響的都是用電大戶，剩下的這些民生用電，這些可以說是庶民百姓，是不是能夠凍漲呢？關於這一點，我也呼籲部長一定要認真考慮。"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員，但是現在一般電價的賣價本來就已經與成本乖離很多了，其實我們漲的部分都很少。"],["張委員嘉郡：這個又要說到你錯誤的能源政策，今天可能時間也不足啦！謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝。","請牛煦庭委員、牛煦庭、牛煦庭委員不在現場。","請何欣純委員、何欣純、何欣純委員不在現場。","請顏寬恒委員、顏寬恒、顏寬恒委員不在現場。","請羅廷瑋委員、羅廷瑋、羅廷瑋委員不在現場。","請羅明才委員、羅明才、羅明才委員不在現場。","請麥玉珍、麥玉珍委員、麥玉珍委員不在現場。","請林倩綺委員、林倩綺、林倩綺委員不在現場。","請林德福委員、林德福、林德福委員不在現場。","請陳超明委員、陳超明、陳超明委員不在現場。","請黃國昌委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":510,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-10","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","謝衣鳯","賴士葆","邱議瑩","張智倫","郭國文","陳亭妃","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","呂玉玲","蔡易餘","洪孟楷","邱志偉","鍾佳濱","賴瑞隆","陳冠廷","陳培瑜","張嘉郡","黃國昌","陳超明","牛煦庭","羅廷瑋"],"page_start":419,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、行政院函請審議「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員柯志恩等\n17人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案；三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬\n具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案；四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中\n小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案；五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業\n發展條例增訂第三十六條之四條文草案」案；六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例\n部分條文修正草案」案；七、本院國民黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正\n草案」案；八、本院委員張智倫等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及\n第四十條條文修正草案」案；九、本院委員王世堅等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、\n第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案；十、本院委員郭國文等19人擬具「中小企業發展\n條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案；十一、本院委員邱議瑩等29人擬具「中小企業發展條例\n部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133801_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"152114","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152114","tool":"pyannote","id":"152114-pyannote"},"job_id":"7aG2NpWyO8p7j7ti","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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00:01:05,546\n電價平均漲幅?\n\n5\n00:01:17,106 --> 00:01:24,350\n我們這一次全部加起來的漲幅應該是11%左右。那這個以下的資源是來自於經濟部能源署有關電液審議的網頁。你可以看一下在104年1月20號立法院決議事項的第三條裡面寫著\n\n6\n00:01:38,277 --> 00:01:58,218\nnetesa長服上線半年條服不得超過三趴,全年累計條服不得超過六趴,這個是在你們經濟部的網頁之上所公佈的。所以呢這個條例請問一下經濟部有遵守嗎?\n\n7\n00:02:00,331 --> 00:02:23,297\n報告這個是104年立法院的決議那正式入法是在106年的1月28日那立法之後就把這個權利交給電價審議委員會由電價審議委員會來決定那你們想做的時候就說要遵守法規你們不想遵守的時候就非常多的理由電業法第49條規定費率是由主管機關核定公告的\n\n8\n00:02:27,978 --> 00:02:36,302\n那這個依照電業法49條電價審議結果出來之後還是必須要經過經濟部的核定所以過去才有連續動漲啊動漲的時候不是都是依照電價公式計算出來的結果而是經濟部政治決定的結果所以這個經濟部不要再推給法律規定因為第一\n\n9\n00:02:53,431 --> 00:03:18,391\nbicy,經濟部就未遵守這三趴的天花板規定。第二,經濟部有核定權,不是審議計算出來的結果就是最終結論。所以結論就是經濟部不願苦民所苦,一定要漲電價,是嗎?報告委員,過去不管電價,要調整的能源署副署長,就是我們負責電價的...我現在問的是部長,我有請你上來嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:20,782 --> 00:03:39,656\n我跟委員報告事實上在我們電價審議的時候考慮的因素包括照顧民生那所以事實上過去這幾次都是電價審議會決定最後是要漲還是不要漲或者幾%但是你是有權利可以動賬的呀沒有但是因為都是在電價審議會決議了他只是報給這個經濟部來做公告所以事實上都是由電價審議會審議的結果\n\n11\n00:03:48,689 --> 00:04:06,596\n部長好幾次告訴我說國際上的天然氣價格就是因為國際上的天然氣價格大漲所以呢我們台電才會虧損這麼多那其實呢我看這個部長你可以看一下這個日韓指數的期貨價格就是\n\n12\n00:04:26,035 --> 00:04:39,798\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。」案。議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。」案。議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。案。\n\n13\n00:04:55,662 --> 00:04:58,223\n欸那個那一次大家問的是說我們不買俄羅斯那買別的別的會不會比較貴所以我們當時講的是我們中油公司去跟別的這個賣的賣家買的這個氣沒有比俄羅斯的貴講的是這樣的一個情形那後來這個那等於是清楚期貨價格跟你們的合約價格可能是有所差異\n\n14\n00:05:19,270 --> 00:05:39,065\n但依照104年通過的這個電價審議委員會時的條件第六條那時候說電價成本應該透明化那是不是請經濟部公佈一下這個天然氣合約的價格讓人民可以檢視請問部長願意公佈嗎?\n\n15\n00:05:42,548 --> 00:05:47,994\n這個相關的合約是中油跟外面的廠商,那這個合約沒辦法,但是中油賣給台電或者賣給…中油賣給台電比較貴,這個上次已經講過了,那中油到底買多少錢?\n\n16\n00:05:58,183 --> 00:06:02,005\n中共賣給台電、賣給這個工業、賣給家戶的,這個我們都可以讓大家知道,沒有問題。就是中油的部分,這個天然氣的合約是不是應該把價格公佈出來?因為我記得公佈這個購買合約並不是沒有先例,在2012年經濟部就曾主動公佈台電的購煤合約,那當時為什麼公佈?部長記得嗎?部長知道嗎?\n\n17\n00:06:23,177 --> 00:06:27,179\n嗯,那個時候我不曉得。對,我想,我想,所以...因為那時,台客在2008年被舉發購買了昂貴的煤炭,而且簽了長約,當時監察院要調查,然後購煤的合約竟然失竊了,我不知道你...\n\n18\n00:06:38,806 --> 00:06:48,529\n你記不記得就是那時候有個新聞就說欸經財院要調查這個購煤的合約結果這個購煤的合約呢就失竊了所以呢我也希望說部長我們是不是儘速也公佈一下我們天然氣的合約而且也要在這個公佈之前要保障我們這個天然氣合約的安全否則真的是非常的危險怎麼會一要調查這個契約就遺失了所以呢最後呢本席也想要問就是說\n\n19\n00:07:07,854 --> 00:07:17,195\n究竟要漲電價,那就是是因為法規的關係還是經濟部不願意苦民所苦?\n\n20\n00:07:18,066 --> 00:07:27,316\n而事實上我有講過我們這一次的調漲85%其實是大的用戶在承擔這個漲。那為什麼不動漲民生電價呢?如果假設85%都是漲這個大的用戶的話為什麼另外那些民生用電不能動漲呢?我們現在的漲幅本來就比較小。\n\n21\n00:07:40,589 --> 00:08:07,135\n而且我們的成本我們的成本都遠大於這個電價所以這個是台中經營上的問題所以本席就是想要呼籲一下部長既然你說85%影響的都是用電大戶剩下的這些民生用電這些可以說是庶民百姓是不是能夠動長呢這一點我也呼籲部長一定要認真考慮\n\n22\n00:08:08,943 --> 00:08:22,602\n謝謝委員但是現在的這個一般的電價的賣給他的已經跟成本本來就乖離很多了所以我們其實這個又說到你錯誤的能源政策所以我今天可能時間也不足啦謝謝謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8137\t11681\t主席,我想請部長。我們再請王部長。部長,對於本院的決議因動漲電價,經濟部是否已經準備好就是不會遵守呢?\n26414\t42730\t因為目前按照電業法的規定所以我們是認為我們經濟部還是要按照法律的規定來執行相關的電價調整就是不計任何代價不願苦民所苦就是不會遵守本院的決議應該動長電價\n45433\t45613\t議員柯志恩等19人擬具\n65205\t65546\t電價平均漲幅?\n77106\t84350\t我們這一次全部加起來的漲幅應該是11%左右。那這個以下的資源是來自於經濟部能源署有關電液審議的網頁。你可以看一下在104年1月20號立法院決議事項的第三條裡面寫著\n98277\t118218\tnetesa 長服上線半年條服不得超過三趴,全年累計條服不得超過六趴,這個是在你們經濟部的網頁之上所公佈的。所以呢這個條例請問一下經濟部有遵守嗎?\n120331\t143297\t報告這個是104年立法院的決議那正式入法是在106年的1月28日那立法之後就把這個權利交給電價審議委員會由電價審議委員會來決定那你們想做的時候就說要遵守法規你們不想遵守的時候就非常多的理由電業法第49條規定費率是由主管機關核定公告的\n147978\t156302\t那這個依照電業法49條電價審議結果出來之後還是必須要經過經濟部的核定所以過去才有連續動漲啊動漲的時候不是都是依照電價公式計算出來的結果而是經濟部政治決定的結果所以這個經濟部不要再推給法律規定因為第一\n173431\t198391\tbicy,經濟部就未遵守這三趴的天花板規定。第二,經濟部有核定權,不是審議計算出來的結果就是最終結論。所以結論就是經濟部不願苦民所苦,一定要漲電價,是嗎?報告委員,過去不管電價,要調整的能源署副署長,就是我們負責電價的...我現在問的是部長,我有請你上來嗎?\n200782\t219656\t我跟委員報告事實上在我們電價審議的時候考慮的因素包括照顧民生那所以事實上過去這幾次都是電價審議會決定最後是要漲還是不要漲或者幾%但是你是有權利可以動賬的呀沒有但是因為都是在電價審議會決議了他只是報給這個經濟部來做公告所以事實上都是由電價審議會審議的結果\n228689\t246596\t部長好幾次告訴我說國際上的天然氣價格就是因為國際上的天然氣價格大漲所以呢我們台電才會虧損這麼多那其實呢我看這個部長你可以看一下這個日韓指數的期貨價格就是\n247875\t266015\t\n266035\t279798\t議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。」案。議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。」案。議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。案。\n295662\t298223\t欸那個那一次大家問的是說我們不買俄羅斯那買別的別的會不會比較貴所以我們當時講的是我們中油公司去跟別的這個賣的賣家買的這個氣沒有比俄羅斯的貴講的是這樣的一個情形那後來這個那等於是清楚期貨價格跟你們的合約價格可能是有所差異\n319270\t339065\t但依照104年通過的這個電價審議委員會時的條件第六條那時候說電價成本應該透明化那是不是請經濟部公佈一下這個天然氣合約的價格讓人民可以檢視請問部長願意公佈嗎?\n342548\t347994\t這個相關的合約是中油跟外面的廠商,那這個合約沒辦法,但是中油賣給台電或者賣給…中油賣給台電比較貴,這個上次已經講過了,那中油到底買多少錢?\n358183\t362005\t中共賣給台電、賣給這個工業、賣給家戶的,這個我們都可以讓大家知道,沒有問題。就是中油的部分,這個天然氣的合約是不是應該把價格公佈出來?因為我記得公佈這個購買合約並不是沒有先例,在2012年經濟部就曾主動公佈台電的購煤合約,那當時為什麼公佈?部長記得嗎?部長知道嗎?\n383177\t387179\t嗯,那個時候我不曉得。對,我想,我想,所以...因為那時,台客在2008年被舉發購買了昂貴的煤炭,而且簽了長約,當時監察院要調查,然後購煤的合約竟然失竊了,我不知道你...\n398806\t408529\t你記不記得就是那時候有個新聞就說欸經財院要調查這個購煤的合約結果這個購煤的合約呢就失竊了所以呢我也希望說部長我們是不是儘速也公佈一下我們天然氣的合約而且也要在這個公佈之前要保障我們這個天然氣合約的安全否則真的是非常的危險怎麼會一要調查這個契約就遺失了所以呢最後呢本席也想要問就是說\n427854\t437195\t究竟要漲電價,那就是是因為法規的關係還是經濟部不願意苦民所苦?\n438066\t447316\t而事實上我有講過我們這一次的調漲85%其實是大的用戶在承擔這個漲。那為什麼不動漲民生電價呢?如果假設85%都是漲這個大的用戶的話為什麼另外那些民生用電不能動漲呢?我們現在的漲幅本來就比較小。\n460589\t487135\t而且我們的成本我們的成本都遠大於這個電價所以這個是台中經營上的問題所以本席就是想要呼籲一下部長既然你說85%影響的都是用電大戶剩下的這些民生用電這些可以說是庶民百姓是不是能夠動長呢這一點我也呼籲部長一定要認真考慮\n488943\t502602\t謝謝委員但是現在的這個一般的電價的賣給他的已經跟成本本來就乖離很多了所以我們其實這個又說到你錯誤的能源政策所以我今天可能時間也不足啦謝謝謝謝部長\n","txt":"主席,我想請部長。我們再請王部長。部長,對於本院的決議因動漲電價,經濟部是否已經準備好就是不會遵守呢?\n因為目前按照電業法的規定所以我們是認為我們經濟部還是要按照法律的規定來執行相關的電價調整就是不計任何代價不願苦民所苦就是不會遵守本院的決議應該動長電價\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具\n電價平均漲幅?\n我們這一次全部加起來的漲幅應該是11%左右。那這個以下的資源是來自於經濟部能源署有關電液審議的網頁。你可以看一下在104年1月20號立法院決議事項的第三條裡面寫著\nnetesa 長服上線半年條服不得超過三趴,全年累計條服不得超過六趴,這個是在你們經濟部的網頁之上所公佈的。所以呢這個條例請問一下經濟部有遵守嗎?\n報告這個是104年立法院的決議那正式入法是在106年的1月28日那立法之後就把這個權利交給電價審議委員會由電價審議委員會來決定那你們想做的時候就說要遵守法規你們不想遵守的時候就非常多的理由電業法第49條規定費率是由主管機關核定公告的\n那這個依照電業法49條電價審議結果出來之後還是必須要經過經濟部的核定所以過去才有連續動漲啊動漲的時候不是都是依照電價公式計算出來的結果而是經濟部政治決定的結果所以這個經濟部不要再推給法律規定因為第一\nbicy,經濟部就未遵守這三趴的天花板規定。第二,經濟部有核定權,不是審議計算出來的結果就是最終結論。所以結論就是經濟部不願苦民所苦,一定要漲電價,是嗎?報告委員,過去不管電價,要調整的能源署副署長,就是我們負責電價的...我現在問的是部長,我有請你上來嗎?\n我跟委員報告事實上在我們電價審議的時候考慮的因素包括照顧民生那所以事實上過去這幾次都是電價審議會決定最後是要漲還是不要漲或者幾%但是你是有權利可以動賬的呀沒有但是因為都是在電價審議會決議了他只是報給這個經濟部來做公告所以事實上都是由電價審議會審議的結果\n部長好幾次告訴我說國際上的天然氣價格就是因為國際上的天然氣價格大漲所以呢我們台電才會虧損這麼多那其實呢我看這個部長你可以看一下這個日韓指數的期貨價格就是\n\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。」案。議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。」案。議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。案。\n欸那個那一次大家問的是說我們不買俄羅斯那買別的別的會不會比較貴所以我們當時講的是我們中油公司去跟別的這個賣的賣家買的這個氣沒有比俄羅斯的貴講的是這樣的一個情形那後來這個那等於是清楚期貨價格跟你們的合約價格可能是有所差異\n但依照104年通過的這個電價審議委員會時的條件第六條那時候說電價成本應該透明化那是不是請經濟部公佈一下這個天然氣合約的價格讓人民可以檢視請問部長願意公佈嗎?\n這個相關的合約是中油跟外面的廠商,那這個合約沒辦法,但是中油賣給台電或者賣給…中油賣給台電比較貴,這個上次已經講過了,那中油到底買多少錢?\n中共賣給台電、賣給這個工業、賣給家戶的,這個我們都可以讓大家知道,沒有問題。就是中油的部分,這個天然氣的合約是不是應該把價格公佈出來?因為我記得公佈這個購買合約並不是沒有先例,在2012年經濟部就曾主動公佈台電的購煤合約,那當時為什麼公佈?部長記得嗎?部長知道嗎?\n嗯,那個時候我不曉得。對,我想,我想,所以...因為那時,台客在2008年被舉發購買了昂貴的煤炭,而且簽了長約,當時監察院要調查,然後購煤的合約竟然失竊了,我不知道你...\n你記不記得就是那時候有個新聞就說欸經財院要調查這個購煤的合約結果這個購煤的合約呢就失竊了所以呢我也希望說部長我們是不是儘速也公佈一下我們天然氣的合約而且也要在這個公佈之前要保障我們這個天然氣合約的安全否則真的是非常的危險怎麼會一要調查這個契約就遺失了所以呢最後呢本席也想要問就是說\n究竟要漲電價,那就是是因為法規的關係還是經濟部不願意苦民所苦?\n而事實上我有講過我們這一次的調漲85%其實是大的用戶在承擔這個漲。那為什麼不動漲民生電價呢?如果假設85%都是漲這個大的用戶的話為什麼另外那些民生用電不能動漲呢?我們現在的漲幅本來就比較小。\n而且我們的成本我們的成本都遠大於這個電價所以這個是台中經營上的問題所以本席就是想要呼籲一下部長既然你說85%影響的都是用電大戶剩下的這些民生用電這些可以說是庶民百姓是不是能夠動長呢這一點我也呼籲部長一定要認真考慮\n謝謝委員但是現在的這個一般的電價的賣給他的已經跟成本本來就乖離很多了所以我們其實這個又說到你錯誤的能源政策所以我今天可能時間也不足啦謝謝謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.137 --> 00:11.681\n主席,我想請部長。我們再請王部長。部長,對於本院的決議因動漲電價,經濟部是否已經準備好就是不會遵守呢?\n\n00:26.414 --> 00:42.730\n因為目前按照電業法的規定所以我們是認為我們經濟部還是要按照法律的規定來執行相關的電價調整就是不計任何代價不願苦民所苦就是不會遵守本院的決議應該動長電價\n\n00:45.433 --> 00:45.613\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具\n\n01:05.205 --> 01:05.546\n電價平均漲幅?\n\n01:17.106 --> 01:24.350\n我們這一次全部加起來的漲幅應該是11%左右。那這個以下的資源是來自於經濟部能源署有關電液審議的網頁。你可以看一下在104年1月20號立法院決議事項的第三條裡面寫著\n\n01:38.277 --> 01:58.218\nnetesa長服上線半年條服不得超過三趴,全年累計條服不得超過六趴,這個是在你們經濟部的網頁之上所公佈的。所以呢這個條例請問一下經濟部有遵守嗎?\n\n02:00.331 --> 02:23.297\n報告這個是104年立法院的決議那正式入法是在106年的1月28日那立法之後就把這個權利交給電價審議委員會由電價審議委員會來決定那你們想做的時候就說要遵守法規你們不想遵守的時候就非常多的理由電業法第49條規定費率是由主管機關核定公告的\n\n02:27.978 --> 02:36.302\n那這個依照電業法49條電價審議結果出來之後還是必須要經過經濟部的核定所以過去才有連續動漲啊動漲的時候不是都是依照電價公式計算出來的結果而是經濟部政治決定的結果所以這個經濟部不要再推給法律規定因為第一\n\n02:53.431 --> 03:18.391\nbicy,經濟部就未遵守這三趴的天花板規定。第二,經濟部有核定權,不是審議計算出來的結果就是最終結論。所以結論就是經濟部不願苦民所苦,一定要漲電價,是嗎?報告委員,過去不管電價,要調整的能源署副署長,就是我們負責電價的...我現在問的是部長,我有請你上來嗎?\n\n03:20.782 --> 03:39.656\n我跟委員報告事實上在我們電價審議的時候考慮的因素包括照顧民生那所以事實上過去這幾次都是電價審議會決定最後是要漲還是不要漲或者幾%但是你是有權利可以動賬的呀沒有但是因為都是在電價審議會決議了他只是報給這個經濟部來做公告所以事實上都是由電價審議會審議的結果\n\n03:48.689 --> 04:06.596\n部長好幾次告訴我說國際上的天然氣價格就是因為國際上的天然氣價格大漲所以呢我們台電才會虧損這麼多那其實呢我看這個部長你可以看一下這個日韓指數的期貨價格就是\n\n04:26.035 --> 04:39.798\n議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。」案。議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。」案。議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。案。\n\n04:55.662 --> 04:58.223\n欸那個那一次大家問的是說我們不買俄羅斯那買別的別的會不會比較貴所以我們當時講的是我們中油公司去跟別的這個賣的賣家買的這個氣沒有比俄羅斯的貴講的是這樣的一個情形那後來這個那等於是清楚期貨價格跟你們的合約價格可能是有所差異\n\n05:19.270 --> 05:39.065\n但依照104年通過的這個電價審議委員會時的條件第六條那時候說電價成本應該透明化那是不是請經濟部公佈一下這個天然氣合約的價格讓人民可以檢視請問部長願意公佈嗎?\n\n05:42.548 --> 05:47.994\n這個相關的合約是中油跟外面的廠商,那這個合約沒辦法,但是中油賣給台電或者賣給…中油賣給台電比較貴,這個上次已經講過了,那中油到底買多少錢?\n\n05:58.183 --> 06:02.005\n中共賣給台電、賣給這個工業、賣給家戶的,這個我們都可以讓大家知道,沒有問題。就是中油的部分,這個天然氣的合約是不是應該把價格公佈出來?因為我記得公佈這個購買合約並不是沒有先例,在2012年經濟部就曾主動公佈台電的購煤合約,那當時為什麼公佈?部長記得嗎?部長知道嗎?\n\n06:23.177 --> 06:27.179\n嗯,那個時候我不曉得。對,我想,我想,所以...因為那時,台客在2008年被舉發購買了昂貴的煤炭,而且簽了長約,當時監察院要調查,然後購煤的合約竟然失竊了,我不知道你...\n\n06:38.806 --> 06:48.529\n你記不記得就是那時候有個新聞就說欸經財院要調查這個購煤的合約結果這個購煤的合約呢就失竊了所以呢我也希望說部長我們是不是儘速也公佈一下我們天然氣的合約而且也要在這個公佈之前要保障我們這個天然氣合約的安全否則真的是非常的危險怎麼會一要調查這個契約就遺失了所以呢最後呢本席也想要問就是說\n\n07:07.854 --> 07:17.195\n究竟要漲電價,那就是是因為法規的關係還是經濟部不願意苦民所苦?\n\n07:18.066 --> 07:27.316\n而事實上我有講過我們這一次的調漲85%其實是大的用戶在承擔這個漲。那為什麼不動漲民生電價呢?如果假設85%都是漲這個大的用戶的話為什麼另外那些民生用電不能動漲呢?我們現在的漲幅本來就比較小。\n\n07:40.589 --> 08:07.135\n而且我們的成本我們的成本都遠大於這個電價所以這個是台中經營上的問題所以本席就是想要呼籲一下部長既然你說85%影響的都是用電大戶剩下的這些民生用電這些可以說是庶民百姓是不是能夠動長呢這一點我也呼籲部長一定要認真考慮\n\n08:08.943 --> 08:22.602\n謝謝委員但是現在的這個一般的電價的賣給他的已經跟成本本來就乖離很多了所以我們其實這個又說到你錯誤的能源政策所以我今天可能時間也不足啦謝謝謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.137,"end":11.681,"text":"主席,我想請部長。我們再請王部長。部長,對於本院的決議因動漲電價,經濟部是否已經準備好就是不會遵守呢?"},{"start":26.414,"end":42.73,"text":"因為目前按照電業法的規定所以我們是認為我們經濟部還是要按照法律的規定來執行相關的電價調整就是不計任何代價不願苦民所苦就是不會遵守本院的決議應該動長電價"},{"start":45.433,"end":45.613,"text":"議員柯志恩等19人擬具"},{"start":65.205,"end":65.546,"text":"電價平均漲幅?"},{"start":77.106,"end":84.35,"text":"我們這一次全部加起來的漲幅應該是11%左右。那這個以下的資源是來自於經濟部能源署有關電液審議的網頁。你可以看一下在104年1月20號立法院決議事項的第三條裡面寫著"},{"start":98.277,"end":118.218,"text":"netesa 長服上線半年條服不得超過三趴,全年累計條服不得超過六趴,這個是在你們經濟部的網頁之上所公佈的。所以呢這個條例請問一下經濟部有遵守嗎?"},{"start":120.331,"end":143.297,"text":"報告這個是104年立法院的決議那正式入法是在106年的1月28日那立法之後就把這個權利交給電價審議委員會由電價審議委員會來決定那你們想做的時候就說要遵守法規你們不想遵守的時候就非常多的理由電業法第49條規定費率是由主管機關核定公告的"},{"start":147.978,"end":156.302,"text":"那這個依照電業法49條電價審議結果出來之後還是必須要經過經濟部的核定所以過去才有連續動漲啊動漲的時候不是都是依照電價公式計算出來的結果而是經濟部政治決定的結果所以這個經濟部不要再推給法律規定因為第一"},{"start":173.431,"end":198.391,"text":" bicy,經濟部就未遵守這三趴的天花板規定。第二,經濟部有核定權,不是審議計算出來的結果就是最終結論。所以結論就是經濟部不願苦民所苦,一定要漲電價,是嗎?報告委員,過去不管電價,要調整的能源署副署長,就是我們負責電價的...我現在問的是部長,我有請你上來嗎?"},{"start":200.782,"end":219.656,"text":"我跟委員報告事實上在我們電價審議的時候考慮的因素包括照顧民生那所以事實上過去這幾次都是電價審議會決定最後是要漲還是不要漲或者幾%但是你是有權利可以動賬的呀沒有但是因為都是在電價審議會決議了他只是報給這個經濟部來做公告所以事實上都是由電價審議會審議的結果"},{"start":228.689,"end":246.596,"text":"部長好幾次告訴我說國際上的天然氣價格就是因為國際上的天然氣價格大漲所以呢我們台電才會虧損這麼多那其實呢我看這個部長你可以看一下這個日韓指數的期貨價格就是"},{"start":247.875,"end":266.015,"text":""},{"start":266.035,"end":279.798,"text":"議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。」案。議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。」案。議員柯志恩等19人擬具:「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案案。案。"},{"start":295.662,"end":298.223,"text":"欸那個那一次大家問的是說我們不買俄羅斯那買別的別的會不會比較貴所以我們當時講的是我們中油公司去跟別的這個賣的賣家買的這個氣沒有比俄羅斯的貴講的是這樣的一個情形那後來這個那等於是清楚期貨價格跟你們的合約價格可能是有所差異"},{"start":319.27,"end":339.065,"text":"但依照104年通過的這個電價審議委員會時的條件第六條那時候說電價成本應該透明化那是不是請經濟部公佈一下這個天然氣合約的價格讓人民可以檢視請問部長願意公佈嗎?"},{"start":342.548,"end":347.994,"text":"這個相關的合約是中油跟外面的廠商,那這個合約沒辦法,但是中油賣給台電或者賣給…中油賣給台電比較貴,這個上次已經講過了,那中油到底買多少錢?"},{"start":358.183,"end":362.005,"text":"中共賣給台電、賣給這個工業、賣給家戶的,這個我們都可以讓大家知道,沒有問題。就是中油的部分,這個天然氣的合約是不是應該把價格公佈出來?因為我記得公佈這個購買合約並不是沒有先例,在2012年經濟部就曾主動公佈台電的購煤合約,那當時為什麼公佈?部長記得嗎?部長知道嗎?"},{"start":383.177,"end":387.179,"text":"嗯,那個時候我不曉得。對,我想,我想,所以...因為那時,台客在2008年被舉發購買了昂貴的煤炭,而且簽了長約,當時監察院要調查,然後購煤的合約竟然失竊了,我不知道你..."},{"start":398.806,"end":408.529,"text":"你記不記得就是那時候有個新聞就說欸經財院要調查這個購煤的合約結果這個購煤的合約呢就失竊了所以呢我也希望說部長我們是不是儘速也公佈一下我們天然氣的合約而且也要在這個公佈之前要保障我們這個天然氣合約的安全否則真的是非常的危險怎麼會一要調查這個契約就遺失了所以呢最後呢本席也想要問就是說"},{"start":427.854,"end":437.195,"text":"究竟要漲電價,那就是是因為法規的關係還是經濟部不願意苦民所苦?"},{"start":438.066,"end":447.316,"text":"而事實上我有講過我們這一次的調漲85%其實是大的用戶在承擔這個漲。那為什麼不動漲民生電價呢?如果假設85%都是漲這個大的用戶的話為什麼另外那些民生用電不能動漲呢?我們現在的漲幅本來就比較小。"},{"start":460.589,"end":487.135,"text":"而且我們的成本我們的成本都遠大於這個電價所以這個是台中經營上的問題所以本席就是想要呼籲一下部長既然你說85%影響的都是用電大戶剩下的這些民生用電這些可以說是庶民百姓是不是能夠動長呢這一點我也呼籲部長一定要認真考慮"},{"start":488.943,"end":502.602,"text":"謝謝委員但是現在的這個一般的電價的賣給他的已經跟成本本來就乖離很多了所以我們其實這個又說到你錯誤的能源政策所以我今天可能時間也不足啦謝謝謝謝部長"}]}}}}