{"id":152116,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152116","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1ea03b4cf694f7abc0cbbe991ada1931c55be169921a0a717f2cd038e26ea9a035ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"12:31:04 - 12:37:59","影片長度":"00:06:55","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部列席就「『偏遠地區學校教育發展條例』施行迄今之成效及檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員魯明哲等24人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條條文修正草案」案。(三)委員馬文君等17人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條及第十九條條文修正草案」案。(四)委員盧縣一等20人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條、第十二條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(僅進行詢答)【4月29日及5月2日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-02","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":10,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-10"},"duration":415,"end_time":"2024-05-02T12:37:59+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-02T12:31:04+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":974,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時31分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生，有請教育部潘部長、國教署彭署長。"],["主席：好，請潘部長、彭署長。"],["潘部長文忠：鍾委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：今天就延續剛剛伍麗華委員，我們都想要讓偏鄉的學校留住、保住，但是關鍵不只是班級人數，還要留住幼兒才能保住偏鄉學校，我這邊提出的是10年的契約幼教師，給家長安心。我今天收到教育部的資料，應該是國教署做的，不過看起來怎麼答非所問，後來發現這是我在4月12日院長答詢時的承諾事項，結果你們的理解讓我今天不得不再說第3次。","我們來看一下這些資料，這裡七都為六都加新竹市，非七都的教保人員目前差額是一萬二千多人，如果換算成幼教師差了6,300人，這個我就不再贅述，這包含了公立、私立、非營利跟準公幼。那麼非公幼的業者集中在哪裡呢？我們很清楚是集中在七都。怎麼說？非七都的地方私立幼兒園比例其實不到5成，七都則是高達快7成。部長，為什麼比例差這麼多？你猜看看。"],["潘部長文忠：因為私立它們一定要招生、要經營、營運。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，人口規模，說得很對。所以就是因為偏鄉地區的人口規模，使得私立的、非公幼的沒有興趣去，對不對？造成的結果是不是這些偏鄉地區就要靠我們公幼、國小附幼來照顧，是不是這樣子？所以國小附幼對偏鄉的幼兒很重要，是不是？結果你問一下署長，我們現在非都的國小公幼有額滿嗎？偏鄉的國小公幼有額滿嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：委員所指的是招生額滿還是設置？"],["鍾委員佳濱：招生。招生跟設置都沒有滿，為什麼？因為國小附幼用的是幼教師，跟國小老師一樣4點就下課了，他沒有義務要負責課後照顧。所以家長將小孩送到國小附幼還有一個考量，要去找安親班，偏鄉都沒有私立的幼兒園了，哪裡去找安親班，對不對？所以現在是不是每個偏鄉的國小都有附幼？有沒有？沒有嘛，甚至有國小附幼的還不見得招的滿。署長你了解這個困境嗎？了解嗎？好。","所以得到什麼結果？因為連附幼都沒有，偏鄉的家長、年輕父母只好把孩子帶到工作地，到都市裡面的工作地點，然後用政府的補助，但是付的錢比較高，而且品質也不見得好。這種情況下他們最困擾的就是，如果留在偏鄉，就像剛剛講的代理老師經常在更換。怎麼解決？怎麼解決我上次有提過，是不是應該要盤點偏鄉或非山非市地區的家長到都會區跨區幼托的情況怎麼樣，去了解實際居住地的幼托需求，可不可以請署長做一下這個統計？可以嗎？去做個統計了解一下，可以嗎？"],["彭署長富源：沒問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長你可以對著麥克風說，點頭我還要讀你的肢體語言。"],["潘部長文忠：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：接下來我們來看師資的問題，我上次有提過私幼、準公幼教保員起薪從過去2萬9,000提高到3萬，不錯啦，公幼、非營利教保員從3萬2,000到3萬8,000，但是你知道國小教師薪水多少嗎？國小教師起薪大概多少？4萬5,000元。但是就算如此，這些公立幼兒園的休假權益，還是沒辦法讓這些教保人員滿足，所以如果在偏鄉或是非山非市的地區，有沒有辦法找到跟國小教師一樣的幼教師資呢？我們看一下。國小教師的起薪是這樣子，這些是透過偏鄉的加給。我這邊就做一個釜底抽薪的建議，上次也提過，就是用十年契約的方式來進用幼教師跟教保員，因為根據幼照法第二十二條，依勞基法進用的人員，他可以做什麼？他可以做課後留園的照顧，跟國小教師不一樣，如果偏鄉的國小附幼，用公立教師的起薪打十年契約並用契約進用，那這些師培生、流浪教師還沒考上正式教師之前，他可以來這裡任教。部長，可不可以考慮這樣的評估？上次有問過。"],["潘部長文忠：我先回應委員前面說的附幼、公幼……"],["鍾委員佳濱：國小附幼。"],["潘部長文忠：其實這不只是學生，是家長負擔，所以推出新的制度就是公幼延托，包含暑假，緣起於他們負擔非常的重。這個其實有大幅的改變在於原來要雙托，所以不選擇公幼，這部分做了很大的改變，成效目前來講數量是擴大很多。至於剛才委員談到教保的問題，當然待遇部分教育部可以研議，但是一旦涉及到這個，可能還會跟行政院人事總處討論。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我為什麼問陳院長，因為這是行政院的層級，但我建議你們可以從非七都的偏鄉，像屏東縣的偏鄉先試辦。比如說屏東縣現在有3所國小要廢校，其中一個在高樹鄉，它是舊寮跟新豐，另外一個在內埔，是僑智國小要廢校，新豐也好、舊寮也好，你不管廢哪一個居民都不捨，所以我才說是不是其中一個改為另外一所專門的國小附幼，用交通車把全鄉5歲之前的幼兒集中在那裡，然後用十年契約給教師跟教保員一個穩定的工作，也能夠包含課後照顧。這些人如果試辦成功，未來可以擴大到其他非七都的偏鄉，可以去評估一下嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：我們來評估一下。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那最後這個我就不再唸了，最後一個就是請看最後一頁，題目我秀一下，請你們在3個月內提出書面報告，盤點由偏鄉或是非山非市區域至都會區跨區托育的情況，實際評估其幼托需求，將偏鄉現在可能面臨廢校的這些國小，以設立國小附幼的方式，比照正式教師的薪水，並專案十年長約以勞基法進用幼教從業人員，請做一個評估，可以嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：好，可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鍾委員。","接下來鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員。","王美惠委員、王美惠委員、王美惠委員。","請范雲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":378,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-10","speakers":["柯志恩","盧縣一","萬美玲","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","陳培瑜","葉元之","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","吳春城","林倩綺","徐富癸","何欣純","黃仁","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鍾佳濱","范雲","邱志偉","黃珊珊","劉建國"],"page_start":311,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部列席就「『偏遠地區學校教育發展條例』施行迄今之成效及檢討」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修\n正草案」案、(二)委員魯明哲等24人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十六條條文修正草案」\n案、( 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\"text\": \"教育業是行政院的成績但我建議你們可以從非七都的偏鄉像屏東縣的偏鄉先試辦比如說屏東縣現在有三所國小要廢校了那其中要在高速它是一個舊樓舊樓跟新豐另外一個在內埔是喬治國小廢校那新豐也好舊樓也好你不管廢哪一個居民都願意都不捨\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 334.218, \"end\": 334.398, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 334.398, \"end\": 334.778, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 334.778, \"end\": 334.918, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 334.918, \"end\": 335.058, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 335.058, \"end\": 335.158, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 335.158, \"end\": 335.239, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 335.239, \"end\": 335.359, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 335.359, \"end\": 335.979, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"績\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 335.979, \"end\": 336.079, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 336.079, \"end\": 336.219, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 336.219, \"end\": 336.459, \"score\": 0.856}, 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00:00:11,961\n主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關署長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生。有請教育部潘部長、國教署潘署長。\n\n2\n00:00:17,810 --> 00:00:34,476\n今天我就延續著剛剛吳立華委員的我們都想要讓偏鄉的學校留住保住但是關鍵不只是班級人數還要留住幼兒才能保住偏鄉學校那我這邊提出的是10年的契約幼教師可以家長安心\n\n3\n00:00:35,296 --> 00:00:52,453\n那之前呢我今天收到的教育部應該是國教署做的啦我看一下怎麼答非所問後來發現這是我在4月12號院長答詢的時候的承諾事項結果呢你們的理解好像我不得不今天再說第三次來我們再看一下這些資料來往下看\n\n4\n00:00:53,837 --> 00:01:14,942\n非七都的教保人員目前的差額是一萬兩千多人,如果換上幼小是差了六千三百人,這個我就不再贅述,這是包含公立、非營利、私立和准公立往下看。那麼非公幼的業者集中在哪裡呢?我們很清楚,集中在七都。怎麼說?你看看。\n\n5\n00:01:15,882 --> 00:01:24,750\n非7度的地方我們私立委員的比例其實呢不到五成這邊是高達快七成為什麼?為什麼比例差這麼多?部長你猜猜看\n\n6\n00:01:27,093 --> 00:01:48,718\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n\n7\n00:01:55,380 --> 00:02:05,314\n國小、公幼有額滿嗎?偏向的國小、公幼有額滿嗎?委員所指的是招生額滿還是社制?招生招生招生跟社都沒有滿為什麼?來往下看\n\n8\n00:02:06,581 --> 00:02:34,980\n因為我們國小附幼用的是幼教師他跟國小老師一樣四點鐘就下課了他沒有義務要負責課後照顧所以我家長呢送到國小附幼我還有個考量我要去找安親班我偏鄉都沒有幼教都沒有那個私立的幼兒園了我哪裡去找安親對不對所以現在是不是每個偏鄉的國小都有附幼有沒有沒有嘛甚至有國小附幼的還不見得招得滿署長你瞭解這個困境嗎\n\n9\n00:02:37,056 --> 00:02:38,296\n理解嗎?\n\n10\n00:02:38,296 --> 00:03:05,623\n了解齁?好,那所以呢,結果得什麼結果?偏鄉的家長、年輕父母啊,他就背著怎麼樣?因為連父幼都沒有啦,他就照把孩子帶到他的工作地,到都市裡面,他工作地點,然後呢用這麼的補助,但是付的錢比較高,而且品質也不見得好。而且呢,這種情況下,他們最困擾的就是,如果留在偏鄉,剛養強的代理老師,經常在更換,那怎麼解決?怎麼解決?我剛剛上次有提過,往下看。\n\n11\n00:03:06,607 --> 00:03:21,346\n施論裡面要盤點一下先盤點偏鄉或非山非市的地區他們這些家長他們到都會地區跨區幼托的情況怎麼樣去了解一下實際居住地的幼托需求可不可以請署長做一下這個統計可以嗎去做個統計了解一下可以齁\n\n12\n00:03:25,404 --> 00:03:48,342\n沒問題啦,部長你可以對麥克風說啦,不然我點頭要讀你的治理語言。可以喔,好。那接下來呢,我們來看一下,那接下來就是私職的問題了。我上次有提過,我們私幼準公幼他的教保員的起薪從過去的兩萬九提到三萬,不錯啦。公幼非營利教保員從三萬二到三萬八,但是你知道我們國小教師薪水有多少嗎?國小教師起薪大概多少?\n\n13\n00:03:52,625 --> 00:04:02,231\n施行迄今之成效及檢討：一、邀請教育部列席就:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案\n\n14\n00:04:20,919 --> 00:04:44,334\n就是我們用10年契約的方式來禁用幼教師跟教保員因為根據我們幼照法第32條根據勞基法禁用的人員他可以做什麼他可以做課後留員的照顧他跟國小教師不一樣如果你的國小的偏鄉的國小副幼你用公立教師的起薪你跟他打10年的契約用契約禁用那麼這些失陪的失陪生\n\n15\n00:04:45,074 --> 00:05:07,327\n流浪教師還沒有考上正式教師之前他可以來這裡任教部長可不可以考慮一下這樣的一個評估上次有問過我先回應委員前面那個婦幼公幼對國小婦幼就那個因為我們考慮到其實這不只是學生啦是家長負擔啦對所以推出新的制度就是公幼延拖包含暑假那員級他們負擔非常的重\n\n16\n00:05:08,968 --> 00:05:14,470\n那這個其實有大幅的改變這個改變就是說原來他要雙托所以他不選擇公幼這個做了很大的改變成效為由請看目前來講數量是擴大很多那至於剛才委員談到教保的這個問題這個當然這個待遇教育部可以研議但是他如果一旦涉及到這個還可能會跟行政院的市總署要做一個討論我為什麼問陳院長\n\n17\n00:05:34,218 --> 00:05:56,229\n教育業是行政院的成績但我建議你們可以從非七都的偏鄉像屏東縣的偏鄉先試辦比如說屏東縣現在有三所國小要廢校了那其中要在高速它是一個舊樓舊樓跟新豐另外一個在內埔是喬治國小廢校那新豐也好舊樓也好你不管廢哪一個居民都願意都不捨\n\n18\n00:05:57,009 --> 00:06:21,559\n其中其中一個改為專門的另外一所的國小附幼那他用交通車把全鄉的五歲之前的幼兒集中在那裡然後用我們十年契約的教師、幼教師跟教保員來給他一個穩定的工作那也能夠包含課後照顧那這樣子的話這些人如果這個事辦成功未來可以擴大到其他非七都的這些偏鄉可以去評估一下嗎\n\n19\n00:06:22,039 --> 00:06:50,650\n委員我們來評估一下好那最後這個我就不再念了最後一個就是請看這一頁最後一頁就是說最後一頁就是這個題目呢我再秀一下就是可以三個月內提出一個書面報告盤點由偏鄉或非山非市的都到都會跨區托育的情況實際評估他的幼托需求來將現在偏鄉可能面臨廢校的這些國小你以國小復育的方式比照正式教育薪水以10年的長月勞教金用這樣的幼教成年人員請做一個評估可以嗎好謝謝\n\n20\n00:06:52,253 --> 00:06:53,319\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3223\t11961\t主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關署長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生。有請教育部潘部長、國教署潘署長。\n17810\t34476\t今天我就延續著剛剛吳立華委員的我們都想要讓偏鄉的學校留住保住但是關鍵不只是班級人數還要留住幼兒才能保住偏鄉學校那我這邊提出的是10年的契約幼教師可以家長安心\n35296\t52453\t那之前呢我今天收到的教育部應該是國教署做的啦我看一下怎麼答非所問後來發現這是我在4月12號院長答詢的時候的承諾事項結果呢你們的理解好像我不得不今天再說第三次來我們再看一下這些資料來往下看\n53837\t74942\t非七都的教保人員目前的差額是一萬兩千多人,如果換上幼小是差了六千三百人,這個我就不再贅述,這是包含公立、非營利、私立和准公立往下看。那麼非公幼的業者集中在哪裡呢?我們很清楚,集中在七都。怎麼說?你看看。\n75882\t84750\t非7度的地方我們私立委員的比例其實呢不到五成這邊是高達快七成為什麼?為什麼比例差這麼多?部長你猜猜看\n87093\t108718\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n115380\t125314\t國小、公幼有額滿嗎?偏向的國小、公幼有額滿嗎?委員所指的是招生額滿還是社制?招生招生招生跟社都沒有滿為什麼?來往下看\n126581\t154980\t因為我們國小附幼用的是幼教師他跟國小老師一樣四點鐘就下課了他沒有義務要負責課後照顧所以我家長呢送到國小附幼我還有個考量我要去找安親班我偏鄉都沒有幼教都沒有那個私立的幼兒園了我哪裡去找安親對不對所以現在是不是每個偏鄉的國小都有附幼有沒有 沒有嘛甚至有國小附幼的還不見得招得滿署長你瞭解這個困境嗎\n157056\t158296\t理解嗎?\n158296\t185623\t了解齁?好,那所以呢,結果得什麼結果?偏鄉的家長、年輕父母啊,他就背著怎麼樣?因為連父幼都沒有啦,他就照把孩子帶到他的工作地,到都市裡面,他工作地點,然後呢用這麼的補助,但是付的錢比較高,而且品質也不見得好。而且呢,這種情況下,他們最困擾的就是,如果留在偏鄉,剛養強的代理老師,經常在更換,那怎麼解決?怎麼解決?我剛剛上次有提過,往下看。\n186607\t201346\t施論裡面要盤點一下先盤點偏鄉或非山非市的地區他們這些家長他們到都會地區跨區幼托的情況怎麼樣去了解一下實際居住地的幼托需求可不可以請署長做一下這個統計可以嗎去做個統計了解一下可以齁\n205404\t228342\t沒問題啦,部長你可以對麥克風說啦,不然我點頭要讀你的治理語言。可以喔,好。那接下來呢,我們來看一下,那接下來就是私職的問題了。我上次有提過,我們私幼準公幼他的教保員的起薪從過去的兩萬九提到三萬,不錯啦。公幼非營利教保員從三萬二到三萬八,但是你知道我們國小教師薪水有多少嗎?國小教師起薪大概多少?\n232625\t242231\t施行迄今之成效及檢討：一、邀請教育部列席就:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案\n260919\t284334\t就是我們用10年契約的方式來禁用幼教師跟教保員因為根據我們幼照法第32條根據勞基法禁用的人員他可以做什麼他可以做課後留員的照顧他跟國小教師不一樣如果你的國小的偏鄉的國小副幼你用公立教師的起薪你跟他打10年的契約用契約禁用那麼這些失陪的失陪生\n285074\t307327\t流浪教師還沒有考上正式教師之前他可以來這裡任教部長可不可以考慮一下這樣的一個評估上次有問過我先回應委員前面那個婦幼公幼對國小婦幼就那個因為我們考慮到其實這不只是學生啦是家長負擔啦對所以推出新的制度就是公幼延拖包含暑假那員級他們負擔非常的重\n308968\t314470\t那這個其實有大幅的改變這個改變就是說原來他要雙托所以他不選擇公幼這個做了很大的改變成效為由請看目前來講數量是擴大很多那至於剛才委員談到教保的這個問題這個當然這個待遇教育部可以研議但是他如果一旦涉及到這個還可能會跟行政院的市總署要做一個討論我為什麼問陳院長\n334218\t356229\t教育業是行政院的成績但我建議你們可以從非七都的偏鄉像屏東縣的偏鄉先試辦比如說屏東縣現在有三所國小要廢校了那其中要在高速它是一個舊樓舊樓跟新豐另外一個在內埔是喬治國小廢校那新豐也好舊樓也好你不管廢哪一個居民都願意都不捨\n357009\t381559\t其中其中一個改為專門的另外一所的國小附幼那他用交通車把全鄉的五歲之前的幼兒集中在那裡然後用我們十年契約的教師、幼教師跟教保員來給他一個穩定的工作那也能夠包含課後照顧那這樣子的話這些人如果這個事辦成功未來可以擴大到其他非七都的這些偏鄉可以去評估一下嗎\n382039\t410650\t委員我們來評估一下好那最後這個我就不再念了最後一個就是請看這一頁最後一頁就是說最後一頁就是這個題目呢我再秀一下就是可以三個月內提出一個書面報告盤點由偏鄉或非山非市的都到都會跨區托育的情況實際評估他的幼托需求來將現在偏鄉可能面臨廢校的這些國小你以國小復育的方式比照正式教育薪水以10年的長月勞教金用這樣的幼教成年人員請做一個評估可以嗎好謝謝\n412253\t413319\t教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席\n","txt":"主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關署長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生。有請教育部潘部長、國教署潘署長。\n今天我就延續著剛剛吳立華委員的我們都想要讓偏鄉的學校留住保住但是關鍵不只是班級人數還要留住幼兒才能保住偏鄉學校那我這邊提出的是10年的契約幼教師可以家長安心\n那之前呢我今天收到的教育部應該是國教署做的啦我看一下怎麼答非所問後來發現這是我在4月12號院長答詢的時候的承諾事項結果呢你們的理解好像我不得不今天再說第三次來我們再看一下這些資料來往下看\n非七都的教保人員目前的差額是一萬兩千多人,如果換上幼小是差了六千三百人,這個我就不再贅述,這是包含公立、非營利、私立和准公立往下看。那麼非公幼的業者集中在哪裡呢?我們很清楚,集中在七都。怎麼說?你看看。\n非7度的地方我們私立委員的比例其實呢不到五成這邊是高達快七成為什麼?為什麼比例差這麼多?部長你猜猜看\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n國小、公幼有額滿嗎?偏向的國小、公幼有額滿嗎?委員所指的是招生額滿還是社制?招生招生招生跟社都沒有滿為什麼?來往下看\n因為我們國小附幼用的是幼教師他跟國小老師一樣四點鐘就下課了他沒有義務要負責課後照顧所以我家長呢送到國小附幼我還有個考量我要去找安親班我偏鄉都沒有幼教都沒有那個私立的幼兒園了我哪裡去找安親對不對所以現在是不是每個偏鄉的國小都有附幼有沒有 沒有嘛甚至有國小附幼的還不見得招得滿署長你瞭解這個困境嗎\n理解嗎?\n了解齁?好,那所以呢,結果得什麼結果?偏鄉的家長、年輕父母啊,他就背著怎麼樣?因為連父幼都沒有啦,他就照把孩子帶到他的工作地,到都市裡面,他工作地點,然後呢用這麼的補助,但是付的錢比較高,而且品質也不見得好。而且呢,這種情況下,他們最困擾的就是,如果留在偏鄉,剛養強的代理老師,經常在更換,那怎麼解決?怎麼解決?我剛剛上次有提過,往下看。\n施論裡面要盤點一下先盤點偏鄉或非山非市的地區他們這些家長他們到都會地區跨區幼托的情況怎麼樣去了解一下實際居住地的幼托需求可不可以請署長做一下這個統計可以嗎去做個統計了解一下可以齁\n沒問題啦,部長你可以對麥克風說啦,不然我點頭要讀你的治理語言。可以喔,好。那接下來呢,我們來看一下,那接下來就是私職的問題了。我上次有提過,我們私幼準公幼他的教保員的起薪從過去的兩萬九提到三萬,不錯啦。公幼非營利教保員從三萬二到三萬八,但是你知道我們國小教師薪水有多少嗎?國小教師起薪大概多少?\n施行迄今之成效及檢討：一、邀請教育部列席就:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案\n就是我們用10年契約的方式來禁用幼教師跟教保員因為根據我們幼照法第32條根據勞基法禁用的人員他可以做什麼他可以做課後留員的照顧他跟國小教師不一樣如果你的國小的偏鄉的國小副幼你用公立教師的起薪你跟他打10年的契約用契約禁用那麼這些失陪的失陪生\n流浪教師還沒有考上正式教師之前他可以來這裡任教部長可不可以考慮一下這樣的一個評估上次有問過我先回應委員前面那個婦幼公幼對國小婦幼就那個因為我們考慮到其實這不只是學生啦是家長負擔啦對所以推出新的制度就是公幼延拖包含暑假那員級他們負擔非常的重\n那這個其實有大幅的改變這個改變就是說原來他要雙托所以他不選擇公幼這個做了很大的改變成效為由請看目前來講數量是擴大很多那至於剛才委員談到教保的這個問題這個當然這個待遇教育部可以研議但是他如果一旦涉及到這個還可能會跟行政院的市總署要做一個討論我為什麼問陳院長\n教育業是行政院的成績但我建議你們可以從非七都的偏鄉像屏東縣的偏鄉先試辦比如說屏東縣現在有三所國小要廢校了那其中要在高速它是一個舊樓舊樓跟新豐另外一個在內埔是喬治國小廢校那新豐也好舊樓也好你不管廢哪一個居民都願意都不捨\n其中其中一個改為專門的另外一所的國小附幼那他用交通車把全鄉的五歲之前的幼兒集中在那裡然後用我們十年契約的教師、幼教師跟教保員來給他一個穩定的工作那也能夠包含課後照顧那這樣子的話這些人如果這個事辦成功未來可以擴大到其他非七都的這些偏鄉可以去評估一下嗎\n委員我們來評估一下好那最後這個我就不再念了最後一個就是請看這一頁最後一頁就是說最後一頁就是這個題目呢我再秀一下就是可以三個月內提出一個書面報告盤點由偏鄉或非山非市的都到都會跨區托育的情況實際評估他的幼托需求來將現在偏鄉可能面臨廢校的這些國小你以國小復育的方式比照正式教育薪水以10年的長月勞教金用這樣的幼教成年人員請做一個評估可以嗎好謝謝\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.223 --> 00:11.961\n主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關署長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生。有請教育部潘部長、國教署潘署長。\n\n00:17.810 --> 00:34.476\n今天我就延續著剛剛吳立華委員的我們都想要讓偏鄉的學校留住保住但是關鍵不只是班級人數還要留住幼兒才能保住偏鄉學校那我這邊提出的是10年的契約幼教師可以家長安心\n\n00:35.296 --> 00:52.453\n那之前呢我今天收到的教育部應該是國教署做的啦我看一下怎麼答非所問後來發現這是我在4月12號院長答詢的時候的承諾事項結果呢你們的理解好像我不得不今天再說第三次來我們再看一下這些資料來往下看\n\n00:53.837 --> 01:14.942\n非七都的教保人員目前的差額是一萬兩千多人,如果換上幼小是差了六千三百人,這個我就不再贅述,這是包含公立、非營利、私立和准公立往下看。那麼非公幼的業者集中在哪裡呢?我們很清楚,集中在七都。怎麼說?你看看。\n\n01:15.882 --> 01:24.750\n非7度的地方我們私立委員的比例其實呢不到五成這邊是高達快七成為什麼?為什麼比例差這麼多?部長你猜猜看\n\n01:27.093 --> 01:48.718\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會\n\n01:55.380 --> 02:05.314\n國小、公幼有額滿嗎?偏向的國小、公幼有額滿嗎?委員所指的是招生額滿還是社制?招生招生招生跟社都沒有滿為什麼?來往下看\n\n02:06.581 --> 02:34.980\n因為我們國小附幼用的是幼教師他跟國小老師一樣四點鐘就下課了他沒有義務要負責課後照顧所以我家長呢送到國小附幼我還有個考量我要去找安親班我偏鄉都沒有幼教都沒有那個私立的幼兒園了我哪裡去找安親對不對所以現在是不是每個偏鄉的國小都有附幼有沒有沒有嘛甚至有國小附幼的還不見得招得滿署長你瞭解這個困境嗎\n\n02:37.056 --> 02:38.296\n理解嗎?\n\n02:38.296 --> 03:05.623\n了解齁?好,那所以呢,結果得什麼結果?偏鄉的家長、年輕父母啊,他就背著怎麼樣?因為連父幼都沒有啦,他就照把孩子帶到他的工作地,到都市裡面,他工作地點,然後呢用這麼的補助,但是付的錢比較高,而且品質也不見得好。而且呢,這種情況下,他們最困擾的就是,如果留在偏鄉,剛養強的代理老師,經常在更換,那怎麼解決?怎麼解決?我剛剛上次有提過,往下看。\n\n03:06.607 --> 03:21.346\n施論裡面要盤點一下先盤點偏鄉或非山非市的地區他們這些家長他們到都會地區跨區幼托的情況怎麼樣去了解一下實際居住地的幼托需求可不可以請署長做一下這個統計可以嗎去做個統計了解一下可以齁\n\n03:25.404 --> 03:48.342\n沒問題啦,部長你可以對麥克風說啦,不然我點頭要讀你的治理語言。可以喔,好。那接下來呢,我們來看一下,那接下來就是私職的問題了。我上次有提過,我們私幼準公幼他的教保員的起薪從過去的兩萬九提到三萬,不錯啦。公幼非營利教保員從三萬二到三萬八,但是你知道我們國小教師薪水有多少嗎?國小教師起薪大概多少?\n\n03:52.625 --> 04:02.231\n施行迄今之成效及檢討：一、邀請教育部列席就:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案\n\n04:20.919 --> 04:44.334\n就是我們用10年契約的方式來禁用幼教師跟教保員因為根據我們幼照法第32條根據勞基法禁用的人員他可以做什麼他可以做課後留員的照顧他跟國小教師不一樣如果你的國小的偏鄉的國小副幼你用公立教師的起薪你跟他打10年的契約用契約禁用那麼這些失陪的失陪生\n\n04:45.074 --> 05:07.327\n流浪教師還沒有考上正式教師之前他可以來這裡任教部長可不可以考慮一下這樣的一個評估上次有問過我先回應委員前面那個婦幼公幼對國小婦幼就那個因為我們考慮到其實這不只是學生啦是家長負擔啦對所以推出新的制度就是公幼延拖包含暑假那員級他們負擔非常的重\n\n05:08.968 --> 05:14.470\n那這個其實有大幅的改變這個改變就是說原來他要雙托所以他不選擇公幼這個做了很大的改變成效為由請看目前來講數量是擴大很多那至於剛才委員談到教保的這個問題這個當然這個待遇教育部可以研議但是他如果一旦涉及到這個還可能會跟行政院的市總署要做一個討論我為什麼問陳院長\n\n05:34.218 --> 05:56.229\n教育業是行政院的成績但我建議你們可以從非七都的偏鄉像屏東縣的偏鄉先試辦比如說屏東縣現在有三所國小要廢校了那其中要在高速它是一個舊樓舊樓跟新豐另外一個在內埔是喬治國小廢校那新豐也好舊樓也好你不管廢哪一個居民都願意都不捨\n\n05:57.009 --> 06:21.559\n其中其中一個改為專門的另外一所的國小附幼那他用交通車把全鄉的五歲之前的幼兒集中在那裡然後用我們十年契約的教師、幼教師跟教保員來給他一個穩定的工作那也能夠包含課後照顧那這樣子的話這些人如果這個事辦成功未來可以擴大到其他非七都的這些偏鄉可以去評估一下嗎\n\n06:22.039 --> 06:50.650\n委員我們來評估一下好那最後這個我就不再念了最後一個就是請看這一頁最後一頁就是說最後一頁就是這個題目呢我再秀一下就是可以三個月內提出一個書面報告盤點由偏鄉或非山非市的都到都會跨區托育的情況實際評估他的幼托需求來將現在偏鄉可能面臨廢校的這些國小你以國小復育的方式比照正式教育薪水以10年的長月勞教金用這樣的幼教成年人員請做一個評估可以嗎好謝謝\n\n06:52.253 --> 06:53.319\n教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.223,"end":11.961,"text":"主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關署長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生。有請教育部潘部長、國教署潘署長。"},{"start":17.81,"end":34.476,"text":"今天我就延續著剛剛吳立華委員的我們都想要讓偏鄉的學校留住保住但是關鍵不只是班級人數還要留住幼兒才能保住偏鄉學校那我這邊提出的是10年的契約幼教師可以家長安心"},{"start":35.296,"end":52.453,"text":"那之前呢我今天收到的教育部應該是國教署做的啦我看一下怎麼答非所問後來發現這是我在4月12號院長答詢的時候的承諾事項結果呢你們的理解好像我不得不今天再說第三次來我們再看一下這些資料來往下看"},{"start":53.837,"end":74.942,"text":"非七都的教保人員目前的差額是一萬兩千多人,如果換上幼小是差了六千三百人,這個我就不再贅述,這是包含公立、非營利、私立和准公立往下看。那麼非公幼的業者集中在哪裡呢?我們很清楚,集中在七都。怎麼說?你看看。"},{"start":75.882,"end":84.75,"text":"非7度的地方我們私立委員的比例其實呢不到五成這邊是高達快七成為什麼?為什麼比例差這麼多?部長你猜猜看"},{"start":87.093,"end":108.718,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會第4會期教育及文化委員會第5會期教育及文化委員會第6會期教育及文化委員會第7會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第8會期教育及文化委員會第9會期教育及文化委員會第10會期教育及文化委員會第11會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第12會期教育及文化委員會第13會期教育及文化委員會第14會期教育及文化委員會第14會"},{"start":115.38,"end":125.314,"text":"國小、公幼有額滿嗎?偏向的國小、公幼有額滿嗎?委員所指的是招生額滿還是社制?招生招生招生跟社都沒有滿為什麼?來往下看"},{"start":126.581,"end":154.98,"text":"因為我們國小附幼用的是幼教師他跟國小老師一樣四點鐘就下課了他沒有義務要負責課後照顧所以我家長呢送到國小附幼我還有個考量我要去找安親班我偏鄉都沒有幼教都沒有那個私立的幼兒園了我哪裡去找安親對不對所以現在是不是每個偏鄉的國小都有附幼有沒有 沒有嘛甚至有國小附幼的還不見得招得滿署長你瞭解這個困境嗎"},{"start":157.056,"end":158.296,"text":"理解嗎?"},{"start":158.296,"end":185.623,"text":"了解齁?好,那所以呢,結果得什麼結果?偏鄉的家長、年輕父母啊,他就背著怎麼樣?因為連父幼都沒有啦,他就照把孩子帶到他的工作地,到都市裡面,他工作地點,然後呢用這麼的補助,但是付的錢比較高,而且品質也不見得好。而且呢,這種情況下,他們最困擾的就是,如果留在偏鄉,剛養強的代理老師,經常在更換,那怎麼解決?怎麼解決?我剛剛上次有提過,往下看。"},{"start":186.607,"end":201.346,"text":"施論裡面要盤點一下先盤點偏鄉或非山非市的地區他們這些家長他們到都會地區跨區幼托的情況怎麼樣去了解一下實際居住地的幼托需求可不可以請署長做一下這個統計可以嗎去做個統計了解一下可以齁"},{"start":205.404,"end":228.342,"text":"沒問題啦,部長你可以對麥克風說啦,不然我點頭要讀你的治理語言。可以喔,好。那接下來呢,我們來看一下,那接下來就是私職的問題了。我上次有提過,我們私幼準公幼他的教保員的起薪從過去的兩萬九提到三萬,不錯啦。公幼非營利教保員從三萬二到三萬八,但是你知道我們國小教師薪水有多少嗎?國小教師起薪大概多少?"},{"start":232.625,"end":242.231,"text":"施行迄今之成效及檢討：一、邀請教育部列席就:「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案案件事宜及公立學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案"},{"start":260.919,"end":284.334,"text":"就是我們用10年契約的方式來禁用幼教師跟教保員因為根據我們幼照法第32條根據勞基法禁用的人員他可以做什麼他可以做課後留員的照顧他跟國小教師不一樣如果你的國小的偏鄉的國小副幼你用公立教師的起薪你跟他打10年的契約用契約禁用那麼這些失陪的失陪生"},{"start":285.074,"end":307.327,"text":"流浪教師還沒有考上正式教師之前他可以來這裡任教部長可不可以考慮一下這樣的一個評估上次有問過我先回應委員前面那個婦幼公幼對國小婦幼就那個因為我們考慮到其實這不只是學生啦是家長負擔啦對所以推出新的制度就是公幼延拖包含暑假那員級他們負擔非常的重"},{"start":308.968,"end":314.47,"text":"那這個其實有大幅的改變這個改變就是說原來他要雙托所以他不選擇公幼這個做了很大的改變成效為由請看目前來講數量是擴大很多那至於剛才委員談到教保的這個問題這個當然這個待遇教育部可以研議但是他如果一旦涉及到這個還可能會跟行政院的市總署要做一個討論我為什麼問陳院長"},{"start":334.218,"end":356.229,"text":"教育業是行政院的成績但我建議你們可以從非七都的偏鄉像屏東縣的偏鄉先試辦比如說屏東縣現在有三所國小要廢校了那其中要在高速它是一個舊樓舊樓跟新豐另外一個在內埔是喬治國小廢校那新豐也好舊樓也好你不管廢哪一個居民都願意都不捨"},{"start":357.009,"end":381.559,"text":"其中其中一個改為專門的另外一所的國小附幼那他用交通車把全鄉的五歲之前的幼兒集中在那裡然後用我們十年契約的教師、幼教師跟教保員來給他一個穩定的工作那也能夠包含課後照顧那這樣子的話這些人如果這個事辦成功未來可以擴大到其他非七都的這些偏鄉可以去評估一下嗎"},{"start":382.039,"end":410.65,"text":"委員我們來評估一下好那最後這個我就不再念了最後一個就是請看這一頁最後一頁就是說最後一頁就是這個題目呢我再秀一下就是可以三個月內提出一個書面報告盤點由偏鄉或非山非市的都到都會跨區托育的情況實際評估他的幼托需求來將現在偏鄉可能面臨廢校的這些國小你以國小復育的方式比照正式教育薪水以10年的長月勞教金用這樣的幼教成年人員請做一個評估可以嗎好謝謝"},{"start":412.253,"end":413.319,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育部列席"}]}}}}