{"id":152169,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152169","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6319d5f220c85a688cd2597c45ca530484bf63cf92ad2af6d65503e05c7869ec7cccb990385a62e45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林德福","委員發言時間":"09:07:29 - 09:17:25","影片長度":"00:09:56","會議時間":"2024-05-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查本院委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等20人分別擬具「地方稅法通則第四條條文修正草案」等2案。\n【5月6日及8日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-06","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[20,15],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-20,15-1"},"duration":596,"end_time":"2024-05-06T09:17:25+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-06T09:07:29+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":26,"blocks":[["林委員德福：（9時7分）謝謝主席。是不是請財政部李次長？"],["主席：請李次長。"],["李次長慶華：委員早安。"],["林委員德福：次長早。次長，我請教一下，主計總處的家庭財務分配統計指出，家庭財務的貧富差距，從民國80年的16.8倍，到110年已擴增到66.9倍。次長，30年貧富差距擴大，如果按照主計長所說的，未解決貧富差距，讓政府提升企業加薪意願改善，所得分配上，政府的責任大，那麼請問稅制改革推動這麼多年，為什麼貧富差距不但沒有縮小的跡象，反而變得越來越大？這到底是稅改不利還是根本就沒有辦法從根本上去縮小貧富差距？你的看法呢？"],["李次長慶華：報告委員，其實在改善人民所得分配的效果上，我們財政部這幾年也是非常地努力，在稅制上面做了非常多優化稅制的措施，包含我們在106年，也就是107年實施所得稅制優化方案，這個優化方案將個人申報綜合所得稅的4項扣除額大幅度調高；另外，我們也在108年增訂長期照顧特別扣除額；而去年度也在財委會各位委員的支持之下，我們修正了幼兒學前特別扣除額，還有租金支出的扣除額，把它從列舉扣除額改訂為特別扣除額。其實這幾項修法都是站在改善民眾基本生活的立場上，希望對於這些中低所得者或是育兒家庭，能夠改善他們的所得狀況。"],["林委員德福：但是次長，事實上是剛剛好相反，你認為會不會是因為資本主義下，貧富差距變大根本就是不可逆，就是一定會這樣子？你認為呢？"],["李次長慶華：但是委員，我們只能講說，在財政部主管的稅制方面，我們還是持續在做相關的滾動調整。"],["林委員德福：但是持續一直擴大啊，這是事實啊！擺在眼前啦！次長，30年來貧富差距擴大的感受，在座各位如果是30年前出社會，甚至是還在念大學的，本席相信大多數人都非常、非常地有感，不論是當時社會新鮮人的薪資，又或者是大學時代的房租、學費，相信30年來的物價變化都會讓大家心有戚戚焉啦！次長，面對現在大多數民眾的所得多半只有夠生活必要的開銷，付完房租、水電以及餐費後所剩無幾啊！財政部幫得了這些人什麼忙？你認為有沒有辦法？"],["李次長慶華：跟委員報告，其實我們也是持續做所得稅制的改善。"],["林委員德福：我知道啊！"],["李次長慶華：對，希望能夠透過稅制的改革增加一些政府收入，然後利用這些收入給予相關的，像行政院主計總處或者是相關的部會，藉由移轉性的支出來改善這些必須、需要扶助的人民的生活。"],["林委員德福：但事實上它是剛好倒著走啊，貧富差距越擴越大！你認為所剩無幾的這些人是不是借錢來投資零股、期待賺機會財；還是借錢買臺股、操作當沖，可以靠當沖降稅的誘因來發點風險財；又或者是小小的去買一些公益彩券，抱著大概有一天能夠中大獎的美夢！次長，除了這些有如白日夢的幻想，財政部有沒有想過在稅制上能夠更務實去解決實際上貧富差距的辦法到底是什麼？你認為有沒有辦法改善？"],["李次長慶華：其實委員提的這個部分，我們當然不希望民眾為了投機獲利去股市做當沖交易，這個對他們來講，也許反而會造成更大的損失，所以我們現在也配合經濟部來實施所謂的鼓勵企業加薪減稅，就是中小企業加薪減稅，希望讓企業能夠將它的獲利分享或者是回饋給他的員工，然後增加員工的薪資，讓他的所得能力增加，這樣子可能是比較正確的作法。"],["林委員德福：次長，上個禮拜朱澤民朱主計長說：財務最低20%家庭的金融負債30年來增加16倍，可能是因為財務槓桿操作太嚴重，導致負債顯著的增加，應謹慎理財。本席認同理財要謹慎的必要性，只是把財務最低20%家庭的原因歸咎於理財謹慎程度不夠，本席認為政府恐怕難辭其咎！因為30年來政府為了和國際接軌，在金融政策的開放性、安全性方面，陸續讓專業金融和知識缺乏的民眾有了更多掉入陷阱的機會，例如早期推銷信用卡、現金卡，結果成就了許多卡奴；十多年前新型金融商品的連動債造就了許多金融消費的苦主；近年來，更是為了推動科技金融而刺激便利金融消費，在無法有效嚇阻金融詐騙的環境下，讓民眾真的是人心惶惶！","我請問次長，從剛剛提到這些金融政策歷程去看貧富差距的形成，你認為是有錢人轉變為貧窮人容易，還是由受薪民眾轉變成貧窮人比較有可能，您的看法呢？"],["李次長慶華：這個當然就是看各個民眾在理財時所做的一些安排，還有他對本身投資理財的工具是不是真正有充分的認識。現在財政部能夠配合的措施就是，我們希望能夠透過加強宣導還有讓民眾認識金融商品，譬如配合金管會訂定的金融機構洗錢防制辦法、還有異常帳戶的管理，來保護民眾在銀行、金融機構的資產，希望他們不會因為這樣做了錯誤的判斷，或者是不小心被詐騙，然後造成他們的損失。"],["林委員德福：你認為有錢人和一般受薪的民眾獲取金錢所承受的風險，到底是誰比較大？你的看法呢？"],["李次長慶華：基本上來講，當然是高所得的人他可能比較有這方面的能力。"],["林委員德福：次長，我感受很深，就是在石油還沒有漲價以前，其實那時候的房子一坪差不多2萬塊、1萬8就買得到，現在一坪房子，各地區不一樣，像臺北市一坪都要一百多萬，一坪喔！你買個20坪可能就要三、四千萬；要是新北市，現在甚至達到90、100、80萬，幾乎比比皆是！你說現在年輕人要買一個房子談何容易，對不對？幾千萬的房子他要努力多少年？而且他一個月才領多少薪水？所以我認為這個有很多的問題，因為我時間到了，講實在話，很多人要存第一桶金都難上加難，他要顧生活又要租房子，這個真的是……我認為很多稅改的部分真的要好好的探討，次長。"],["李次長慶華：是，這個部分我們會持續來檢討相關的稅制。"],["林委員德福：對啊！"],["李次長慶華：但是重點還是……其實我們這幾年也希望能夠在房地產方面做一些稅制上面的調整，譬如說我們實施了房地合一所得稅制，我們也實施了房屋稅差別稅率2.0，也是希望讓擁有多戶房屋的這些人能夠多負擔一些他們應該負擔的合理稅賦。"],["林委員德福：我最後提一個，因為憲法第七條落實於稅法上，就是租稅平等原則，區分成水平平等與垂直平等兩種，水平平等是指同樣經濟給付能力者，應負擔相同的稅捐，垂直平等指不同支付能力者，應負擔不同的稅捐；富人應多繳稅，窮人應該要少繳稅。"],["李次長慶華：是，其實我們目前的稅制改革也是往這個方向來處理。"],["林委員德福：我認為這個很重要，謝謝。"],["李次長慶華：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：下一位質詢請吳秉叡吳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":58,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-20,15-1","speakers":["羅明才","賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","顏寬恒","牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","李彥秀","李坤城","王鴻薇","張宏陸","陳玉珍","張智倫","王世堅","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王美惠","許宇甄","李柏毅"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1134101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查本院委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等20人分別擬具「地方稅法通則第四條條文修正草案」\n等2案","agenda_id":"1134101_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"152169","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152169","tool":"pyannote","id":"152169-pyannote"},"job_id":"lvwSFjOWV4rYSi9w","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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00:01:05,757\n提升企業加薪那意願改善所得分配上政府的責任大那請問稅制改革推動這麼多年為什麼貧富差距不但沒有縮小的跡象反而變得越來越大這到底是稅改不利還是\n\n4\n00:01:06,798 --> 00:01:35,950\n根本就是沒有辦法從根本上去縮小貧富的差距。你的看法呢?是報告委員其實在這個改善我們這個人民的所得分配的這個效果上面呢我們財政部這幾年也是非常的努力在稅制上面做了非常多優化稅制的措施包含了我們在106年也就是107年時的實施所的稅制優化方案這個優化方案呢將我們這個個人申報綜合所稅的四項扣除了大幅度的調高\n\n5\n00:01:37,070 --> 00:02:06,267\n另外,我們也在108年有增訂了長期照顧特別扣除額。在去年度也在財委會各委員的支持之下,我們修正了我們的幼兒學前特別扣除額,還有就是租金支出的扣除額,把它從列舉扣除額改定為特別扣除額。其實這幾項的修法都是站在改善民眾基本生活的立場上面,希望能夠對於這些中低所得者\n\n6\n00:02:06,787 --> 00:02:20,072\n但是事實上是剛剛好相反那你認為會不會是因為資本主義下貧富差距變大根本就是不可逆就是一定會這樣子\n\n7\n00:02:21,923 --> 00:02:49,545\n你的認為呢?但是委員我們只能講說我們在稅制在財政部主管的稅制方面我們還是持續在做相關混動的調整但是喔,持續就是擴大阿這是事實阿擺在眼前阿市長30年來貧富差距擴大的感受阿在座各位如果30年前出生這個社會甚至還是念大學的本席相信大多數的人都非常非常的有感不論是當時社會新鮮人的薪資阿\n\n8\n00:02:50,245 --> 00:03:17,738\n又或者是大學時代的房租學會相信30年來的物價變化都會讓大家心有戚戚焉。市長,面對現在大多數民眾的所得多半只有夠生活必要的開銷呼喚房租、水電以及倉位後所剩無幾。財政部幫得了這些人什麼忙?你認為有沒有辦法?\n\n9\n00:03:18,803 --> 00:03:42,692\n我們就是持續做稅制的改善希望能夠透過稅制的改革能夠增加一些政府的收入然後利用這些收入給予這些相關的像行政院組織總處或者是說相關的部會藉由這個移轉性的支出來改善我們這些有必須需要輔助的人民的生活但是事實上他是剛好\n\n10\n00:03:44,039 --> 00:04:03,867\n倒著走啊,他越擴越大,貧富差距啊那你認為是不是這些所剩無幾的這些人啊是不是借錢來投資零股啊期待賺的機會財還是借錢買台股操作當沖可以當沖降稅的誘因來花點風險財又或者是這個\n\n11\n00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:31,695\n小小的去買一些公益彩券抱著大概有一天能夠中大獎這樣的一個美夢市長除了這些有如白日夢的幻想財政部有沒有想過在稅制上能夠更務實去解決實際上貧富差距的辦法到底是什麼?你認為有沒有辦法改善?\n\n12\n00:04:32,836 --> 00:04:51,543\n所以其實委員這個部分當然我們不希望就是民眾因為這個為了投機獲利然後去股市然後做什麼幫充交易這個其實對他們來講也許反而會造成更大的損失所以我們現在是希望就是說我們也配合經濟部來實施所謂的這個鼓勵企業加薪減稅就是中小企業加薪減稅希望讓企業能夠將他的獲利能夠分享或者是回饋給他的員工\n\n13\n00:05:01,767 --> 00:05:07,941\n來後來增加員工的薪資讓他的所得能力增加那這樣子可能是比較正確的做法\n\n14\n00:05:09,373 --> 00:05:36,258\n市長,上個禮拜朱哲銘、朱祖記長說財富最低的20%家庭金融負債30年來增加16倍可能是因為財富槓桿操作太嚴重導致負債顯著的增加因謹慎理財那本席認同這個理財要謹慎這樣的一個必要性只是把財富最低的20%家庭\n\n15\n00:05:37,958 --> 00:05:54,132\n的原因歸咎於理財謹慎程度不夠本席認為恐怕政府難救其辭因為30年來政府為了和國際接軌金融政策的開放性、安全性陸續讓專業金融和\n\n16\n00:05:58,075 --> 00:06:22,177\n知識缺乏的民眾有了更多掉入陷阱的機會例如早期推銷信用卡、現金卡結果成就了許多卡奴這十多年前的新型金融商品的連動債造就了許多金融消費的苦主近年來更是為了推動科技金融致激\n\n17\n00:06:23,098 --> 00:06:50,772\n令利金融消費在無法有效嚇阻這些金融詐騙的環境下讓民眾真的講人心惶惶那我請問次長從剛剛提到的這些金融政策這個歷程去看貧富差距的形成你認為是有錢人轉變為貧窮人容易還是一個由壽星民眾轉變成貧窮人比較有可能您的看法呢\n\n18\n00:06:52,901 --> 00:07:09,235\n當然就是看這個各個民眾他在這個理財的時候他所做的一些安排就是他對他所投資理財的工具是不是真正有充分的認識那我們現在其實財政部能夠配合的措施就是我們希望能夠透過一些就是加強的宣導還有加強對這個金融商品的讓民眾認識金融商品\n\n19\n00:07:14,419 --> 00:07:20,681\n例如透過配合金管會訂定的什麼金融機構洗錢防治辦法還有就是異常帳戶的管理我們來保護我們這些銀行同民眾在銀行的金融機構的資產希望他們不會因為這樣這個做了錯誤的判斷或者是說被不小心被詐騙然後造成他們的損失\n\n20\n00:07:37,685 --> 00:07:47,271\n你認為有錢能害一般壽星的民眾獲取金錢所承受的風險到底是誰比較大?你的看法?市長,因為我認為我感受很深就是在石油還沒有\n\n21\n00:07:55,776 --> 00:07:55,916\n李卓人議員\n\n22\n00:08:16,233 --> 00:08:35,849\n那你要是新北市甚至於你現在達到90、180、80幾乎比比皆是你說現在年輕人要買一個房子談何容易啊對不對要幾千萬的房子他要努力多少年而且他一個月才領到多少薪水所以說我認為這個\n\n23\n00:08:38,609 --> 00:08:41,132\n我認為很多稅改的部分真的要好好的探討\n\n24\n00:08:58,712 --> 00:08:58,732\n市長\n\n25\n00:09:24,380 --> 00:09:53,529\n我最後提一個因為憲法第7條落實於稅法上就是租稅平等原則區分水平平等與垂直平等兩種水平平等是指同樣經濟幾戶人力者應互擔相同的稅捐垂直平等則有不同之戶人力者應互擔不同的稅捐戶人應多繳稅窮人應該要少繳稅是其實我們目前的稅制改革也是往這個方向來我認為這個很重要\n\n26\n00:09:54,189 --> 00:09:54,209\n謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11204\t12005\t財政部理事長\n20595\t46342\t市長早市長我請教因為竹記種族的家庭財務分配統計指出家庭財務的貧富差距從民國80年的16.8倍到110年已擴增到66.9倍那市長30年貧富差距擴大如果按照竹記長所說的未解決貧富差距讓政府\n47222\t65757\t提升企業加薪那意願改善所得分配上政府的責任大那請問稅制改革推動這麼多年為什麼貧富差距不但沒有縮小的跡象反而變得越來越大這到底是稅改不利還是\n66798\t95950\t根本就是沒有辦法從根本上去縮小貧富的差距。你的看法呢?是報告委員其實在這個改善我們這個人民的所得分配的這個效果上面呢我們財政部這幾年也是非常的努力在稅制上面做了非常多優化稅制的措施包含了我們在106年也就是107年時的實施所的稅制優化方案這個優化方案呢將我們這個個人申報綜合所稅的四項扣除了大幅度的調高\n97070\t126267\t另外,我們也在108年有增訂了長期照顧特別扣除額。在去年度也在財委會各委員的支持之下,我們修正了我們的幼兒學前特別扣除額,還有就是租金支出的扣除額,把它從列舉扣除額改定為特別扣除額。其實這幾項的修法都是站在改善民眾基本生活的立場上面,希望能夠對於這些中低所得者\n126787\t140072\t但是事實上是剛剛好相反那你認為會不會是因為資本主義下貧富差距變大根本就是不可逆就是一定會這樣子\n141923\t169545\t你的認為呢?但是委員我們只能講說我們在稅制在財政部主管的稅制方面我們還是持續在做相關混動的調整但是喔,持續就是擴大阿這是事實阿擺在眼前阿市長30年來貧富差距擴大的感受阿在座各位如果30年前出生這個社會甚至還是念大學的本席相信大多數的人都非常非常的有感不論是當時社會新鮮人的薪資阿\n170245\t197738\t又或者是大學時代的房租學會相信30年來的物價變化都會讓大家心有戚戚焉。市長,面對現在大多數民眾的所得多半只有夠生活必要的開銷呼喚房租、水電以及倉位後所剩無幾。財政部幫得了這些人什麼忙?你認為有沒有辦法?\n198803\t222692\t我們就是持續做稅制的改善希望能夠透過稅制的改革能夠增加一些政府的收入然後利用這些收入給予這些相關的像行政院組織總處或者是說相關的部會藉由這個移轉性的支出來改善我們這些有必須需要輔助的人民的生活但是事實上他是剛好\n224039\t243867\t倒著走啊,他越擴越大,貧富差距啊那你認為是不是這些所剩無幾的這些人啊是不是借錢來投資零股啊期待賺的機會財還是借錢買台股操作當沖可以當沖降稅的誘因來花點風險財又或者是這個\n250240\t271695\t小小的去買一些公益彩券抱著大概有一天能夠中大獎這樣的一個美夢市長除了這些有如白日夢的幻想財政部有沒有想過在稅制上能夠更務實去解決實際上貧富差距的辦法到底是什麼?你認為有沒有辦法改善?\n272836\t291543\t所以其實委員這個部分當然我們不希望就是民眾因為這個為了投機獲利然後去股市然後做什麼幫充交易這個其實對他們來講也許反而會造成更大的損失所以我們現在是希望就是說我們也配合經濟部來實施所謂的這個鼓勵企業加薪減稅就是中小企業加薪減稅希望讓企業能夠將他的獲利能夠分享或者是回饋給他的員工\n301767\t307941\t來後來增加員工的薪資讓他的所得能力增加那這樣子可能是比較正確的做法\n309373\t336258\t市長,上個禮拜朱哲銘、朱祖記長說財富最低的20%家庭金融負債30年來增加16倍可能是因為財富槓桿操作太嚴重導致負債顯著的增加因謹慎理財那本席認同這個理財要謹慎這樣的一個必要性只是把財富最低的20%家庭\n337958\t354132\t的原因歸咎於理財謹慎程度不夠本席認為恐怕政府難救其辭因為30年來政府為了和國際接軌金融政策的開放性、安全性陸續讓專業金融和\n358075\t382177\t知識缺乏的民眾有了更多掉入陷阱的機會例如早期推銷信用卡、現金卡結果成就了許多卡奴這十多年前的新型金融商品的連動債造就了許多金融消費的苦主近年來更是為了推動科技金融致激\n383098\t410772\t令利金融消費在無法有效嚇阻這些金融詐騙的環境下讓民眾真的講人心惶惶那我請問次長從剛剛提到的這些金融政策這個歷程去看貧富差距的形成你認為是有錢人轉變為貧窮人容易還是一個由壽星民眾轉變成貧窮人比較有可能您的看法呢\n412901\t429235\t當然就是看這個各個民眾他在這個理財的時候他所做的一些安排就是他對他所投資理財的工具是不是真正有充分的認識那我們現在其實財政部能夠配合的措施就是我們希望能夠透過一些就是加強的宣導還有加強對這個金融商品的讓民眾認識金融商品\n434419\t440681\t例如透過配合金管會訂定的什麼金融機構洗錢防治辦法還有就是異常帳戶的管理我們來保護我們這些銀行同民眾在銀行的金融機構的資產希望他們不會因為這樣這個做了錯誤的判斷或者是說被不小心被詐騙然後造成他們的損失\n457685\t467271\t你認為有錢能害一般壽星的民眾獲取金錢所承受的風險到底是誰比較大?你的看法?市長,因為我認為我感受很深就是在石油還沒有\n475776\t475916\t李卓人議員\n496233\t515849\t那你要是新北市甚至於你現在達到90、180、80幾乎比比皆是你說現在年輕人要買一個房子談何容易啊對不對要幾千萬的房子他要努力多少年而且他一個月才領到多少薪水所以說我認為這個\n518609\t521132\t我認為很多稅改的部分真的要好好的探討\n538712\t538732\t市長\n564380\t593529\t我最後提一個因為憲法第7條落實於稅法上就是租稅平等原則區分水平平等與垂直平等兩種水平平等是指同樣經濟幾戶人力者應互擔相同的稅捐垂直平等則有不同之戶人力者應互擔不同的稅捐戶人應多繳稅窮人應該要少繳稅是其實我們目前的稅制改革也是往這個方向來我認為這個很重要\n594189\t594209\t謝謝委員\n","txt":"財政部理事長\n市長早市長我請教因為竹記種族的家庭財務分配統計指出家庭財務的貧富差距從民國80年的16.8倍到110年已擴增到66.9倍那市長30年貧富差距擴大如果按照竹記長所說的未解決貧富差距讓政府\n提升企業加薪那意願改善所得分配上政府的責任大那請問稅制改革推動這麼多年為什麼貧富差距不但沒有縮小的跡象反而變得越來越大這到底是稅改不利還是\n根本就是沒有辦法從根本上去縮小貧富的差距。你的看法呢?是報告委員其實在這個改善我們這個人民的所得分配的這個效果上面呢我們財政部這幾年也是非常的努力在稅制上面做了非常多優化稅制的措施包含了我們在106年也就是107年時的實施所的稅制優化方案這個優化方案呢將我們這個個人申報綜合所稅的四項扣除了大幅度的調高\n另外,我們也在108年有增訂了長期照顧特別扣除額。在去年度也在財委會各委員的支持之下,我們修正了我們的幼兒學前特別扣除額,還有就是租金支出的扣除額,把它從列舉扣除額改定為特別扣除額。其實這幾項的修法都是站在改善民眾基本生活的立場上面,希望能夠對於這些中低所得者\n但是事實上是剛剛好相反那你認為會不會是因為資本主義下貧富差距變大根本就是不可逆就是一定會這樣子\n你的認為呢?但是委員我們只能講說我們在稅制在財政部主管的稅制方面我們還是持續在做相關混動的調整但是喔,持續就是擴大阿這是事實阿擺在眼前阿市長30年來貧富差距擴大的感受阿在座各位如果30年前出生這個社會甚至還是念大學的本席相信大多數的人都非常非常的有感不論是當時社會新鮮人的薪資阿\n又或者是大學時代的房租學會相信30年來的物價變化都會讓大家心有戚戚焉。市長,面對現在大多數民眾的所得多半只有夠生活必要的開銷呼喚房租、水電以及倉位後所剩無幾。財政部幫得了這些人什麼忙?你認為有沒有辦法?\n我們就是持續做稅制的改善希望能夠透過稅制的改革能夠增加一些政府的收入然後利用這些收入給予這些相關的像行政院組織總處或者是說相關的部會藉由這個移轉性的支出來改善我們這些有必須需要輔助的人民的生活但是事實上他是剛好\n倒著走啊,他越擴越大,貧富差距啊那你認為是不是這些所剩無幾的這些人啊是不是借錢來投資零股啊期待賺的機會財還是借錢買台股操作當沖可以當沖降稅的誘因來花點風險財又或者是這個\n小小的去買一些公益彩券抱著大概有一天能夠中大獎這樣的一個美夢市長除了這些有如白日夢的幻想財政部有沒有想過在稅制上能夠更務實去解決實際上貧富差距的辦法到底是什麼?你認為有沒有辦法改善?\n所以其實委員這個部分當然我們不希望就是民眾因為這個為了投機獲利然後去股市然後做什麼幫充交易這個其實對他們來講也許反而會造成更大的損失所以我們現在是希望就是說我們也配合經濟部來實施所謂的這個鼓勵企業加薪減稅就是中小企業加薪減稅希望讓企業能夠將他的獲利能夠分享或者是回饋給他的員工\n來後來增加員工的薪資讓他的所得能力增加那這樣子可能是比較正確的做法\n市長,上個禮拜朱哲銘、朱祖記長說財富最低的20%家庭金融負債30年來增加16倍可能是因為財富槓桿操作太嚴重導致負債顯著的增加因謹慎理財那本席認同這個理財要謹慎這樣的一個必要性只是把財富最低的20%家庭\n的原因歸咎於理財謹慎程度不夠本席認為恐怕政府難救其辭因為30年來政府為了和國際接軌金融政策的開放性、安全性陸續讓專業金融和\n知識缺乏的民眾有了更多掉入陷阱的機會例如早期推銷信用卡、現金卡結果成就了許多卡奴這十多年前的新型金融商品的連動債造就了許多金融消費的苦主近年來更是為了推動科技金融致激\n令利金融消費在無法有效嚇阻這些金融詐騙的環境下讓民眾真的講人心惶惶那我請問次長從剛剛提到的這些金融政策這個歷程去看貧富差距的形成你認為是有錢人轉變為貧窮人容易還是一個由壽星民眾轉變成貧窮人比較有可能您的看法呢\n當然就是看這個各個民眾他在這個理財的時候他所做的一些安排就是他對他所投資理財的工具是不是真正有充分的認識那我們現在其實財政部能夠配合的措施就是我們希望能夠透過一些就是加強的宣導還有加強對這個金融商品的讓民眾認識金融商品\n例如透過配合金管會訂定的什麼金融機構洗錢防治辦法還有就是異常帳戶的管理我們來保護我們這些銀行同民眾在銀行的金融機構的資產希望他們不會因為這樣這個做了錯誤的判斷或者是說被不小心被詐騙然後造成他們的損失\n你認為有錢能害一般壽星的民眾獲取金錢所承受的風險到底是誰比較大?你的看法?市長,因為我認為我感受很深就是在石油還沒有\n李卓人議員\n那你要是新北市甚至於你現在達到90、180、80幾乎比比皆是你說現在年輕人要買一個房子談何容易啊對不對要幾千萬的房子他要努力多少年而且他一個月才領到多少薪水所以說我認為這個\n我認為很多稅改的部分真的要好好的探討\n市長\n我最後提一個因為憲法第7條落實於稅法上就是租稅平等原則區分水平平等與垂直平等兩種水平平等是指同樣經濟幾戶人力者應互擔相同的稅捐垂直平等則有不同之戶人力者應互擔不同的稅捐戶人應多繳稅窮人應該要少繳稅是其實我們目前的稅制改革也是往這個方向來我認為這個很重要\n謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.204 --> 00:12.005\n財政部理事長\n\n00:20.595 --> 00:46.342\n市長早市長我請教因為竹記種族的家庭財務分配統計指出家庭財務的貧富差距從民國80年的16.8倍到110年已擴增到66.9倍那市長30年貧富差距擴大如果按照竹記長所說的未解決貧富差距讓政府\n\n00:47.222 --> 01:05.757\n提升企業加薪那意願改善所得分配上政府的責任大那請問稅制改革推動這麼多年為什麼貧富差距不但沒有縮小的跡象反而變得越來越大這到底是稅改不利還是\n\n01:06.798 --> 01:35.950\n根本就是沒有辦法從根本上去縮小貧富的差距。你的看法呢?是報告委員其實在這個改善我們這個人民的所得分配的這個效果上面呢我們財政部這幾年也是非常的努力在稅制上面做了非常多優化稅制的措施包含了我們在106年也就是107年時的實施所的稅制優化方案這個優化方案呢將我們這個個人申報綜合所稅的四項扣除了大幅度的調高\n\n01:37.070 --> 02:06.267\n另外,我們也在108年有增訂了長期照顧特別扣除額。在去年度也在財委會各委員的支持之下,我們修正了我們的幼兒學前特別扣除額,還有就是租金支出的扣除額,把它從列舉扣除額改定為特別扣除額。其實這幾項的修法都是站在改善民眾基本生活的立場上面,希望能夠對於這些中低所得者\n\n02:06.787 --> 02:20.072\n但是事實上是剛剛好相反那你認為會不會是因為資本主義下貧富差距變大根本就是不可逆就是一定會這樣子\n\n02:21.923 --> 02:49.545\n你的認為呢?但是委員我們只能講說我們在稅制在財政部主管的稅制方面我們還是持續在做相關混動的調整但是喔,持續就是擴大阿這是事實阿擺在眼前阿市長30年來貧富差距擴大的感受阿在座各位如果30年前出生這個社會甚至還是念大學的本席相信大多數的人都非常非常的有感不論是當時社會新鮮人的薪資阿\n\n02:50.245 --> 03:17.738\n又或者是大學時代的房租學會相信30年來的物價變化都會讓大家心有戚戚焉。市長,面對現在大多數民眾的所得多半只有夠生活必要的開銷呼喚房租、水電以及倉位後所剩無幾。財政部幫得了這些人什麼忙?你認為有沒有辦法?\n\n03:18.803 --> 03:42.692\n我們就是持續做稅制的改善希望能夠透過稅制的改革能夠增加一些政府的收入然後利用這些收入給予這些相關的像行政院組織總處或者是說相關的部會藉由這個移轉性的支出來改善我們這些有必須需要輔助的人民的生活但是事實上他是剛好\n\n03:44.039 --> 04:03.867\n倒著走啊,他越擴越大,貧富差距啊那你認為是不是這些所剩無幾的這些人啊是不是借錢來投資零股啊期待賺的機會財還是借錢買台股操作當沖可以當沖降稅的誘因來花點風險財又或者是這個\n\n04:10.240 --> 04:31.695\n小小的去買一些公益彩券抱著大概有一天能夠中大獎這樣的一個美夢市長除了這些有如白日夢的幻想財政部有沒有想過在稅制上能夠更務實去解決實際上貧富差距的辦法到底是什麼?你認為有沒有辦法改善?\n\n04:32.836 --> 04:51.543\n所以其實委員這個部分當然我們不希望就是民眾因為這個為了投機獲利然後去股市然後做什麼幫充交易這個其實對他們來講也許反而會造成更大的損失所以我們現在是希望就是說我們也配合經濟部來實施所謂的這個鼓勵企業加薪減稅就是中小企業加薪減稅希望讓企業能夠將他的獲利能夠分享或者是回饋給他的員工\n\n05:01.767 --> 05:07.941\n來後來增加員工的薪資讓他的所得能力增加那這樣子可能是比較正確的做法\n\n05:09.373 --> 05:36.258\n市長,上個禮拜朱哲銘、朱祖記長說財富最低的20%家庭金融負債30年來增加16倍可能是因為財富槓桿操作太嚴重導致負債顯著的增加因謹慎理財那本席認同這個理財要謹慎這樣的一個必要性只是把財富最低的20%家庭\n\n05:37.958 --> 05:54.132\n的原因歸咎於理財謹慎程度不夠本席認為恐怕政府難救其辭因為30年來政府為了和國際接軌金融政策的開放性、安全性陸續讓專業金融和\n\n05:58.075 --> 06:22.177\n知識缺乏的民眾有了更多掉入陷阱的機會例如早期推銷信用卡、現金卡結果成就了許多卡奴這十多年前的新型金融商品的連動債造就了許多金融消費的苦主近年來更是為了推動科技金融致激\n\n06:23.098 --> 06:50.772\n令利金融消費在無法有效嚇阻這些金融詐騙的環境下讓民眾真的講人心惶惶那我請問次長從剛剛提到的這些金融政策這個歷程去看貧富差距的形成你認為是有錢人轉變為貧窮人容易還是一個由壽星民眾轉變成貧窮人比較有可能您的看法呢\n\n06:52.901 --> 07:09.235\n當然就是看這個各個民眾他在這個理財的時候他所做的一些安排就是他對他所投資理財的工具是不是真正有充分的認識那我們現在其實財政部能夠配合的措施就是我們希望能夠透過一些就是加強的宣導還有加強對這個金融商品的讓民眾認識金融商品\n\n07:14.419 --> 07:20.681\n例如透過配合金管會訂定的什麼金融機構洗錢防治辦法還有就是異常帳戶的管理我們來保護我們這些銀行同民眾在銀行的金融機構的資產希望他們不會因為這樣這個做了錯誤的判斷或者是說被不小心被詐騙然後造成他們的損失\n\n07:37.685 --> 07:47.271\n你認為有錢能害一般壽星的民眾獲取金錢所承受的風險到底是誰比較大?你的看法?市長,因為我認為我感受很深就是在石油還沒有\n\n07:55.776 --> 07:55.916\n李卓人議員\n\n08:16.233 --> 08:35.849\n那你要是新北市甚至於你現在達到90、180、80幾乎比比皆是你說現在年輕人要買一個房子談何容易啊對不對要幾千萬的房子他要努力多少年而且他一個月才領到多少薪水所以說我認為這個\n\n08:38.609 --> 08:41.132\n我認為很多稅改的部分真的要好好的探討\n\n08:58.712 --> 08:58.732\n市長\n\n09:24.380 --> 09:53.529\n我最後提一個因為憲法第7條落實於稅法上就是租稅平等原則區分水平平等與垂直平等兩種水平平等是指同樣經濟幾戶人力者應互擔相同的稅捐垂直平等則有不同之戶人力者應互擔不同的稅捐戶人應多繳稅窮人應該要少繳稅是其實我們目前的稅制改革也是往這個方向來我認為這個很重要\n\n09:54.189 --> 09:54.209\n謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.204,"end":12.005,"text":"財政部理事長"},{"start":20.595,"end":46.342,"text":"市長早市長我請教因為竹記種族的家庭財務分配統計指出家庭財務的貧富差距從民國80年的16.8倍到110年已擴增到66.9倍那市長30年貧富差距擴大如果按照竹記長所說的未解決貧富差距讓政府"},{"start":47.222,"end":65.757,"text":"提升企業加薪那意願改善所得分配上政府的責任大那請問稅制改革推動這麼多年為什麼貧富差距不但沒有縮小的跡象反而變得越來越大這到底是稅改不利還是"},{"start":66.798,"end":95.95,"text":"根本就是沒有辦法從根本上去縮小貧富的差距。你的看法呢?是報告委員其實在這個改善我們這個人民的所得分配的這個效果上面呢我們財政部這幾年也是非常的努力在稅制上面做了非常多優化稅制的措施包含了我們在106年也就是107年時的實施所的稅制優化方案這個優化方案呢將我們這個個人申報綜合所稅的四項扣除了大幅度的調高"},{"start":97.07,"end":126.267,"text":"另外,我們也在108年有增訂了長期照顧特別扣除額。在去年度也在財委會各委員的支持之下,我們修正了我們的幼兒學前特別扣除額,還有就是租金支出的扣除額,把它從列舉扣除額改定為特別扣除額。其實這幾項的修法都是站在改善民眾基本生活的立場上面,希望能夠對於這些中低所得者"},{"start":126.787,"end":140.072,"text":"但是事實上是剛剛好相反那你認為會不會是因為資本主義下貧富差距變大根本就是不可逆就是一定會這樣子"},{"start":141.923,"end":169.545,"text":"你的認為呢?但是委員我們只能講說我們在稅制在財政部主管的稅制方面我們還是持續在做相關混動的調整但是喔,持續就是擴大阿這是事實阿擺在眼前阿市長30年來貧富差距擴大的感受阿在座各位如果30年前出生這個社會甚至還是念大學的本席相信大多數的人都非常非常的有感不論是當時社會新鮮人的薪資阿"},{"start":170.245,"end":197.738,"text":"又或者是大學時代的房租學會相信30年來的物價變化都會讓大家心有戚戚焉。市長,面對現在大多數民眾的所得多半只有夠生活必要的開銷呼喚房租、水電以及倉位後所剩無幾。財政部幫得了這些人什麼忙?你認為有沒有辦法?"},{"start":198.803,"end":222.692,"text":"我們就是持續做稅制的改善希望能夠透過稅制的改革能夠增加一些政府的收入然後利用這些收入給予這些相關的像行政院組織總處或者是說相關的部會藉由這個移轉性的支出來改善我們這些有必須需要輔助的人民的生活但是事實上他是剛好"},{"start":224.039,"end":243.867,"text":"倒著走啊,他越擴越大,貧富差距啊那你認為是不是這些所剩無幾的這些人啊是不是借錢來投資零股啊期待賺的機會財還是借錢買台股操作當沖可以當沖降稅的誘因來花點風險財又或者是這個"},{"start":250.24,"end":271.695,"text":"小小的去買一些公益彩券抱著大概有一天能夠中大獎這樣的一個美夢市長除了這些有如白日夢的幻想財政部有沒有想過在稅制上能夠更務實去解決實際上貧富差距的辦法到底是什麼?你認為有沒有辦法改善?"},{"start":272.836,"end":291.543,"text":"所以其實委員這個部分當然我們不希望就是民眾因為這個為了投機獲利然後去股市然後做什麼幫充交易這個其實對他們來講也許反而會造成更大的損失所以我們現在是希望就是說我們也配合經濟部來實施所謂的這個鼓勵企業加薪減稅就是中小企業加薪減稅希望讓企業能夠將他的獲利能夠分享或者是回饋給他的員工"},{"start":301.767,"end":307.941,"text":"來後來增加員工的薪資讓他的所得能力增加那這樣子可能是比較正確的做法"},{"start":309.373,"end":336.258,"text":"市長,上個禮拜朱哲銘、朱祖記長說財富最低的20%家庭金融負債30年來增加16倍可能是因為財富槓桿操作太嚴重導致負債顯著的增加因謹慎理財那本席認同這個理財要謹慎這樣的一個必要性只是把財富最低的20%家庭"},{"start":337.958,"end":354.132,"text":"的原因歸咎於理財謹慎程度不夠本席認為恐怕政府難救其辭因為30年來政府為了和國際接軌金融政策的開放性、安全性陸續讓專業金融和"},{"start":358.075,"end":382.177,"text":"知識缺乏的民眾有了更多掉入陷阱的機會例如早期推銷信用卡、現金卡結果成就了許多卡奴這十多年前的新型金融商品的連動債造就了許多金融消費的苦主近年來更是為了推動科技金融致激"},{"start":383.098,"end":410.772,"text":"令利金融消費在無法有效嚇阻這些金融詐騙的環境下讓民眾真的講人心惶惶那我請問次長從剛剛提到的這些金融政策這個歷程去看貧富差距的形成你認為是有錢人轉變為貧窮人容易還是一個由壽星民眾轉變成貧窮人比較有可能您的看法呢"},{"start":412.901,"end":429.235,"text":"當然就是看這個各個民眾他在這個理財的時候他所做的一些安排就是他對他所投資理財的工具是不是真正有充分的認識那我們現在其實財政部能夠配合的措施就是我們希望能夠透過一些就是加強的宣導還有加強對這個金融商品的讓民眾認識金融商品"},{"start":434.419,"end":440.681,"text":"例如透過配合金管會訂定的什麼金融機構洗錢防治辦法還有就是異常帳戶的管理我們來保護我們這些銀行同民眾在銀行的金融機構的資產希望他們不會因為這樣這個做了錯誤的判斷或者是說被不小心被詐騙然後造成他們的損失"},{"start":457.685,"end":467.271,"text":"你認為有錢能害一般壽星的民眾獲取金錢所承受的風險到底是誰比較大?你的看法?市長,因為我認為我感受很深就是在石油還沒有"},{"start":475.776,"end":475.916,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":496.233,"end":515.849,"text":"那你要是新北市甚至於你現在達到90、180、80幾乎比比皆是你說現在年輕人要買一個房子談何容易啊對不對要幾千萬的房子他要努力多少年而且他一個月才領到多少薪水所以說我認為這個"},{"start":518.609,"end":521.132,"text":"我認為很多稅改的部分真的要好好的探討"},{"start":538.712,"end":538.732,"text":"市長"},{"start":564.38,"end":593.529,"text":"我最後提一個因為憲法第7條落實於稅法上就是租稅平等原則區分水平平等與垂直平等兩種水平平等是指同樣經濟幾戶人力者應互擔相同的稅捐垂直平等則有不同之戶人力者應互擔不同的稅捐戶人應多繳稅窮人應該要少繳稅是其實我們目前的稅制改革也是往這個方向來我認為這個很重要"},{"start":594.189,"end":594.209,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}}}}