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09:26:05","影片長度":"00:08:32","會議時間":"2024-05-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查本院委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等20人分別擬具「地方稅法通則第四條條文修正草案」等2案。\n【5月6日及8日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-06","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[20,15],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-20,15-1"},"duration":512,"end_time":"2024-05-06T09:26:05+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-06T09:17:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":55,"blocks":[["吳委員秉叡：（9時17分）主席，麻煩請財政部李次長。"],["主席：請李次長。"],["李次長慶華：委員早安。"],["吳委員秉叡：次長早。現在5月是報稅季，今年實施不少新制度，包括成年的年紀現在是18歲，從20歲下降。另外一個大家比較陌生的是受控外國企業（CFC），受我們臺灣人控制的外國企業的繳稅問題。受控外國企業（CFC）要繳稅，財政部在其繳稅之前，因為已經預告今年開始要課了，從去年1月1號實施、今年要課，之前有沒有跟這些CFC擁有者宣導？他們知不知道今年得要這樣子繳稅呢？"],["李次長慶華：有，其實我們從前年報經行政院核定說從112年度開始實施受控外國企業公司法，那個所得稅制要開始了，包含賦稅署還有各地區的國稅局就一直持續在做宣導，宣導的方式包含發布新聞稿做相關的說明，但是最重要的是我們跟所有的會計師公會、記帳士公會還有報稅代理人公會，逐一地去跟公會做詳細的說明，如果企業這方面他們有需求，希望我們能夠對他們一對一輔導的話，我們各地區國稅局也都是派員親自去做相關的輔導。"],["吳委員秉叡：請問這一個新的制度會影響到多少人？然後你估計這可以課到多少稅收呢？"],["李次長慶華：目前我們預估，就是從上市櫃公司的統計資料來看的話，大概會有七成左右的企業，也就是將近1,245家，包含上市櫃企業，因為他們可能都有對外投資的行為，這些企業可能會受到我們CFC稅制的影響，有關稅收的統計，因為近幾年我們其實沒有實際上的統計，但是我們在103年當時有委託過學者研究，估計每年平均國外的盈餘大概有1,295億元，可能影響的稅收大概是55億元，但是因為這幾年其實……"],["吳委員秉叡：這麼少嗎？"],["李次長慶華：是，因為我們有很多，除了這個CFC，它不是你所有每一塊盈餘都要課稅，它基本上還有一些豁免條款，譬如你雖然是在低稅負地區投資，但是你如果在低稅負地區有實質的營運活動，或者是說你即使有獲利，但是因為我們還有一個免稅的門檻，也就是開始課徵的門檻，目前是700萬元，要超過這個額度才會納入CFC課稅的範圍。"],["吳委員秉叡：或是譬如說他設在新加坡，因為新加坡跟我們有租稅協定，所以他在新加坡繳的稅在臺灣可以……"],["李次長慶華：也可以拿回來扣抵，對，而且他在國外繳納的稅額，確實也是可以拿回來扣抵的。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，如果是這樣的話，因為112年度的營利事業所得稅是收到九千多億，然後個人綜合所得稅的部分是收到五千多億，所以去年實收數比預算數多很多，原因主要是這些都有滿大的gap啦！"],["李次長慶華：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：今年你認為呢？你估計今年會不會也這樣子呢？"],["李次長慶華：我們今年在預計預算數的時候，包含我們的營所稅、綜所稅，還有各個稅目，其實我們都已經有採用比較新的估測方式，而且參考了這些上市櫃公司實際上的獲利狀況，還有營運的狀況，因此我們預估在營所稅的方面，到目前為止，我們是覺得跟我們的估測數應該是差不多的，因為去年……"],["吳委員秉叡：你們估多少？"],["李次長慶華：我們今年的預算數，營所稅是估九千多億，但是因為我們已經是覈實估列，所以我們是覺得今年稅收最後實徵的數字，應該是跟我們的預算數差不多，那今年唯一比較……"],["吳委員秉叡：我們要不要打賭？"],["李次長慶華：我覺得我們今年唯一比較沒有把握的是證交稅。"],["吳委員秉叡：不是啦！光是營所稅我就可以跟你打賭了，因為我跟你說，我們財政部的同仁其實並不是惡意啦！但是他們都做比較保守的估計，這樣子達成率都可以超過百分之百。"],["李次長慶華：不會、不會，其實我們從去年開始，因為這兩年我們稅收多於預算，實徵數大於預算數的狀況確實是比較……"],["吳委員秉叡：我用一個比較參考的數字給你聽，我們臺灣的GDP就算是去年成長比較少，也有一點多趴。"],["李次長慶華：對。"],["吳委員秉叡：那今年估計要三點多趴？"],["李次長慶華：對，3.43%。"],["吳委員秉叡：也就是說，臺灣這幾年從來沒有minus的，就是在原來的基礎上一直再疊加上去，所以我個人認為你們的估算可能還是偏保守啦！"],["李次長慶華：跟委員報告，其實我們也看了今年最後那個……就是證交所最後公布的上市櫃公司今年財報跟前年的獲利，確實是減損了25.63%，我們去年已經有參考他們可能發生的實際獲利狀況，基本上我們是覺得營所稅的估算應該是趨於覈實，但是在證交稅方面，可能我們就比較沒有把握，為什麼？因為證交稅我們去年在估預算的時候是估3,500億的……"],["吳委員秉叡：成交總數，成交額是包括OTC，還有包括證交所這兩個。"],["李次長慶華：對，上市、上櫃都有，但是今年上市、上櫃公司從1到4月，到目前為止，它每月的成交值都已經超過了5,000億，所以我們覺得證交稅這部分，我們在估測方面可能會有點失準。"],["吳委員秉叡：我跟你說，以我的觀念，國家依法收稅，能夠有多收代表財政健全，然後可以做更多福國利民的事，包括各方面的開支，因為財政是庶政之母，這當然是好事，不是在苛求你們，我們只是要求說，如果你們能夠更精準一點的話，這是希望你們百尺竿頭、更進一步，你越精準，越不讓外界有見縫插針的機會，常有人在那邊拿錯誤的定義跟錯誤的名詞在這裡面給你做文章，搞得你焦頭爛額，讓整個社會更加的紛亂。我是認為其實一個國家的合理稅收，如果你們的估計能夠高達百分之百是最好，上下幾個百分點應該大家都是可以接受的。"],["李次長慶華：是，委員，其實……"],["吳委員秉叡：也不要超過太多，也不要少太多。"],["李次長慶華：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：像過去這兩、三年，其實都差很遠啦！"],["李次長慶華：是，可是跟委員覈實報告，因為過去這兩、三年，事實上很多經濟環境的變化，不是我們可以預測到的，所以真的也是因為這樣的關係、因為疫情的關係，我們也會在估算上面有點失準。但是我們從去年開始就成立稅收估測小組，部長也特別要求我們，今年度還是要繼續召開這個小組，然後聽取一些專家學者的意見，讓我們在估測114年度預算的時候能夠更精準。"],["吳委員秉叡：因為今年的7月開始就要編114年的預算了嘛！"],["李次長慶華：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：115年的預算了嘛！"],["李次長慶華：114年。"],["吳委員秉叡：估114年的是稅收的？"],["李次長慶華：對。"],["吳委員秉叡：因為幸好你繼續當次長，對不對？"],["李次長慶華：是，謝謝委員。"],["吳委員秉叡：我也繼續在這邊，我們今天這個對話，大概半年多之後就可以驗證了，就知道到底有沒有像你講的這樣，如果能夠像你講的這樣當然是很好，如果還是繼續超過很多，那麼就代表你們在估計的時候……"],["李次長慶華：還有精進空間。"],["吳委員秉叡：要更加看好臺灣的經濟啦！"],["李次長慶華：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：現在全世界，臺灣的經濟真的是非常長紅、非常難得的現象，希望你們的估計值也能夠越來越精準。加油！"],["李次長慶華：會，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位質詢請賴士葆賴委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":58,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-20,15-1","speakers":["羅明才","賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","顏寬恒","牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","李彥秀","李坤城","王鴻薇","張宏陸","陳玉珍","張智倫","王世堅","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王美惠","許宇甄","李柏毅"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1134101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查本院委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等20人分別擬具「地方稅法通則第四條條文修正草案」\n等2案","agenda_id":"1134101_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"152173","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152173","tool":"pyannote","id":"152173-pyannote"},"job_id":"NjYioch7C7fmtE0L","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 253.697, \"end\": 253.717, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}]}, {\"start\": 260.612, \"end\": 260.792, \"text\": \"不是啦!\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 260.612, \"end\": 260.692, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 260.692, \"end\": 260.772, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 260.772, \"end\": 260.792, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"!\"}]}, {\"start\": 279.229, \"end\": 304.446, \"text\": \"光是你所說我就可以跟你打賭啦因為我跟你說齁我們財政部的同仁喔他們其實並不是惡意啦但是他們都做比較保守的估計喔這樣子達成率都可以超過百分之百不會不會其實我們從去年開始因為這兩年我們稅收多與預算是增速大於預算數的狀況確實是比較我用一個比較參考的數字給你聽啦齁我們台灣的GDP\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 279.229, \"end\": 279.449, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 279.449, \"end\": 279.549, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 279.549, \"end\": 279.709, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 279.709, \"end\": 279.99, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 279.99, \"end\": 280.07, \"score\": 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00:01:22,948\n其實我們從那個報競行政院核定在前年報競行政院核定所從112年度開始就要實施這個受控企業外國公司法開始那個所得稅即開始我們就包含我們複稅署還有各地去國稅局就一直持續的在做宣導那宣導的方式其實包含了就是我們當然發布新聞稿做相關的說明\n\n5\n00:01:25,109 --> 00:01:33,476\n但是最重要的是我們跟所有的會計師工會、記賬師工會還有這些報稅代言工會逐一的去做工會詳細的說明那如果企業這方面呢他們有需求希望我們能夠對他們一對一的輔導的話我們各地區國稅局也都是派員親自去做相關的輔導\n\n6\n00:01:45,226 --> 00:02:02,321\n請問這個新的制度會影響到多少人?然後你估計這個可以課到多少稅收?目前我們是預估從上市櫃公司的統計資料來看的話大概會有七成左右的企業也就是將近1245家\n\n7\n00:02:05,584 --> 00:02:17,974\n包括上市櫃企業因為他們可能因為都有對外投資的行為那這些企業可能會受到我們CFC稅制的影響那有關稅收的統計因為近幾年我們其實沒有實際上的統計但是我們在103年當時有委託過學者研究大概估計是每年平均大概有盈餘國外的盈餘大概有1295億元那可能影響的稅收大概是55億元\n\n8\n00:02:34,707 --> 00:02:48,415\n但是因為這幾年其實是因為因為我們有很多除了這個CLC它不是你所有的每一塊盈餘都要課稅它基本上還有一些豁免條款比如說你雖然是在低稅負地區投資但是呢你如果在低稅負地區有實質的營運活動\n\n9\n00:03:13,934 --> 00:03:38,269\n那如果是這樣的話,今年預估因為112年度的盈利事業所得稅是收到9000多億然後個人的綜合所得稅的部分是收到5000多億所以去年啊,持收數比預估數比那個預算數多很多原因主要是這些都有蠻大的這個gap啦那你今年你認為呢?\n\n10\n00:03:39,728 --> 00:04:03,490\n您估計今年會不會也會這樣子呢?因為我們今年在預計我們的預算數的時候包含我們的營所稅、中所稅還有各個稅務其實我們都已經有採用比較新的估測方式而且參考了就是這些上市櫃公司它實際上的獲利狀況還有營運的狀況那因此我們預估就是在營所稅的方面到目前為止我們是覺得跟我們的估測數應該是差不多的\n\n11\n00:04:06,212 --> 00:04:13,717\n因為去年﹐我們去年﹐今年的預算數﹐營所稅是估9千多億嗎﹐營所稅\n\n12\n00:04:20,612 --> 00:04:20,792\n不是啦!\n\n13\n00:04:39,229 --> 00:05:04,446\n光是你所說我就可以跟你打賭啦因為我跟你說齁我們財政部的同仁喔他們其實並不是惡意啦但是他們都做比較保守的估計喔這樣子達成率都可以超過百分之百不會不會其實我們從去年開始因為這兩年我們稅收多與預算是增速大於預算數的狀況確實是比較我用一個比較參考的數字給你聽啦齁我們台灣的GDP\n\n14\n00:05:05,836 --> 00:05:22,566\n就算是去年成長比較少也有一點多趴那今年估計要3點多趴也就是說台灣這幾年從來沒有麻辣死的就是在原來的基礎上一直都在疊加上去所以我個人認為喔你們的估算\n\n15\n00:05:23,854 --> 00:05:37,479\n可能還是偏保守各位報告其實我們也看了今年最後那個就是政交所最公佈他們那個上市位公司今年財報跟前年的獲利確實是減損了25.63%所以我們覺得我們去年已經有參考他們可能發生的實際獲利的狀況基本上我們是覺得營所罪的估算應該是趨於何時\n\n16\n00:05:48,743 --> 00:06:00,833\n但是在證交稅方面可能我們就比較沒有把握為什麼因為證交稅我們去年是估3000我們在估預算的時候是估3500億的以成交總數成交額就是包括這個OTC還有包括這個證交所這兩個\n\n17\n00:06:06,897 --> 00:06:34,673\n對,但是今年上市商業公司從1到4月到目前為止他每月的成交局都已經超過了5000億所以我們覺得政交稅這部分可能是我們在顧測方面可能會有點失準的我跟你說以我的觀念國家依法收稅能夠有多收代表財政健全然後可以做更多福國利民的事包括各方面的開支因為財政是肅政之母嘛這當然是好事不是在苛求你們我們只是要求說如果你們能夠\n\n18\n00:06:35,694 --> 00:06:36,694\n我認為一個國家的合理稅收如果你們的估計\n\n19\n00:07:27,022 --> 00:07:28,403\n因為今年的7月開始就要編114年的預算了嘛\n\n20\n00:07:52,578 --> 00:08:16,354\n一百一十五年的預算一億四一億四估一億四的是稅收的對好那因為幸好你繼續當次長對不對那我也繼續在這邊我們今天那個對話到半年多之後就可以驗證就知道到底有沒有像你講的這樣如果能夠像你講的這樣當然是很好那如果還是繼續超過很多的話就代表你們在估計的時候還有精進空間\n\n21\n00:08:17,495 --> 00:08:17,515\n對,謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10598\t11961\t主席麻煩請財政部理事長請理事長\n17960\t39599\t市長早現在5月是報稅季那今年有不少的新制度實施啦包括成年的年紀現在18歲從20歲下降再來另外一個就是大家比較陌生的就是CFC受控外國企業受我們台灣人控制的外國企業這個繳稅的問題那\n43507\t61813\t你這個CFC受供外國企業的這個繳稅,財政部在這個繳稅之前,因為這已經預告今年開始要課了嘛,從去年1月1號實施去年要課,之前有沒有宣導啊這些CFC的這個UO9知不知道今年他們得要這樣子繳稅呢?\n63153\t82948\t其實我們從那個報競行政院核定在前年報競行政院核定所從112年度開始就要實施這個受控企業外國公司法開始那個所得稅即開始我們就包含我們複稅署還有各地去國稅局就一直持續的在做宣導那宣導的方式其實包含了就是我們當然發布新聞稿做相關的說明\n85109\t93476\t但是最重要的是我們跟所有的會計師工會、記賬師工會還有這些報稅代言工會逐一的去做工會詳細的說明那如果企業這方面呢他們有需求希望我們能夠對他們一對一的輔導的話我們各地區國稅局也都是派員親自去做相關的輔導\n105226\t122321\t請問這個新的制度會影響到多少人?然後你估計這個可以課到多少稅收?目前我們是預估從上市櫃公司的統計資料來看的話大概會有七成左右的企業也就是將近1245家\n125584\t137974\t包括上市櫃企業因為他們可能因為都有對外投資的行為那這些企業可能會受到我們CFC稅制的影響那有關稅收的統計因為近幾年我們其實沒有實際上的統計但是我們在103年當時有委託過學者研究大概估計是每年平均大概有盈餘國外的盈餘大概有1295億元那可能影響的稅收大概是55億元\n154707\t168415\t但是因為這幾年其實是因為因為我們有很多除了這個CLC它不是你所有的每一塊盈餘都要課稅它基本上還有一些豁免條款比如說你雖然是在低稅負地區投資但是呢你如果在低稅負地區有實質的營運活動\n170316\t193814\t﹚吳秉叡\n193934\t218269\t那如果是這樣的話,今年預估因為112年度的盈利事業所得稅是收到9000多億然後個人的綜合所得稅的部分是收到5000多億所以去年啊,持收數比預估數比那個預算數多很多原因主要是這些都有蠻大的這個gap啦那你今年你認為呢?\n219728\t243490\t您估計今年會不會也會這樣子呢?因為我們今年在預計我們的預算數的時候包含我們的營所稅、中所稅還有各個稅務其實我們都已經有採用比較新的估測方式而且參考了就是這些上市櫃公司它實際上的獲利狀況還有營運的狀況那因此我們預估就是在營所稅的方面到目前為止我們是覺得跟我們的估測數應該是差不多的\n246212\t253717\t因為去年﹐我們去年﹐今年的預算數﹐營所稅是估9千多億嗎﹐營所稅\n260612\t260792\t不是啦!\n279229\t304446\t光是你所說我就可以跟你打賭啦因為我跟你說齁我們財政部的同仁喔他們其實並不是惡意啦但是他們都做比較保守的估計喔這樣子達成率都可以超過百分之百不會不會其實我們從去年開始因為這兩年我們稅收多與預算是增速大於預算數的狀況確實是比較我用一個比較參考的數字給你聽啦齁我們台灣的GDP\n305836\t322566\t就算是去年成長比較少也有一點多趴那今年估計要3點多趴也就是說台灣這幾年從來沒有麻辣死的就是在原來的基礎上一直都在疊加上去所以我個人認為喔你們的估算\n323854\t337479\t可能還是偏保守各位報告其實我們也看了今年最後那個就是政交所最公佈他們那個上市位公司今年財報跟前年的獲利確實是減損了25.63%所以我們覺得我們去年已經有參考他們可能發生的實際獲利的狀況基本上我們是覺得營所罪的估算應該是趨於何時\n348743\t360833\t但是在證交稅方面可能我們就比較沒有把握為什麼因為證交稅我們去年是估3000我們在估預算的時候是估3500億的以成交總數成交額就是包括這個OTC還有包括這個證交所這兩個\n366897\t394673\t對,但是今年上市商業公司從1到4月到目前為止他每月的成交局都已經超過了5000億所以我們覺得政交稅這部分可能是我們在顧測方面可能會有點失準的我跟你說以我的觀念國家依法收稅能夠有多收代表財政健全然後可以做更多福國利民的事包括各方面的開支因為財政是肅政之母嘛這當然是好事不是在苛求你們我們只是要求說如果你們能夠\n395694\t396694\t我認為一個國家的合理稅收如果你們的估計\n422637\t447022\t吳秉叡\n447022\t448403\t因為今年的7月開始就要編114年的預算了嘛\n472578\t496354\t一百一十五年的預算一億四一億四估一億四的是稅收的對好那因為幸好你繼續當次長對不對那我也繼續在這邊我們今天那個對話到半年多之後就可以驗證就知道到底有沒有像你講的這樣如果能夠像你講的這樣當然是很好那如果還是繼續超過很多的話就代表你們在估計的時候還有精進空間\n497495\t497515\t對,謝謝委員\n","txt":"主席麻煩請財政部理事長請理事長\n市長早現在5月是報稅季那今年有不少的新制度實施啦包括成年的年紀現在18歲從20歲下降再來另外一個就是大家比較陌生的就是CFC受控外國企業受我們台灣人控制的外國企業這個繳稅的問題那\n你這個CFC受供外國企業的這個繳稅,財政部在這個繳稅之前,因為這已經預告今年開始要課了嘛,從去年1月1號實施去年要課,之前有沒有宣導啊這些CFC的這個UO9知不知道今年他們得要這樣子繳稅呢?\n其實我們從那個報競行政院核定在前年報競行政院核定所從112年度開始就要實施這個受控企業外國公司法開始那個所得稅即開始我們就包含我們複稅署還有各地去國稅局就一直持續的在做宣導那宣導的方式其實包含了就是我們當然發布新聞稿做相關的說明\n但是最重要的是我們跟所有的會計師工會、記賬師工會還有這些報稅代言工會逐一的去做工會詳細的說明那如果企業這方面呢他們有需求希望我們能夠對他們一對一的輔導的話我們各地區國稅局也都是派員親自去做相關的輔導\n請問這個新的制度會影響到多少人?然後你估計這個可以課到多少稅收?目前我們是預估從上市櫃公司的統計資料來看的話大概會有七成左右的企業也就是將近1245家\n包括上市櫃企業因為他們可能因為都有對外投資的行為那這些企業可能會受到我們CFC稅制的影響那有關稅收的統計因為近幾年我們其實沒有實際上的統計但是我們在103年當時有委託過學者研究大概估計是每年平均大概有盈餘國外的盈餘大概有1295億元那可能影響的稅收大概是55億元\n但是因為這幾年其實是因為因為我們有很多除了這個CLC它不是你所有的每一塊盈餘都要課稅它基本上還有一些豁免條款比如說你雖然是在低稅負地區投資但是呢你如果在低稅負地區有實質的營運活動\n﹚吳秉叡\n那如果是這樣的話,今年預估因為112年度的盈利事業所得稅是收到9000多億然後個人的綜合所得稅的部分是收到5000多億所以去年啊,持收數比預估數比那個預算數多很多原因主要是這些都有蠻大的這個gap啦那你今年你認為呢?\n您估計今年會不會也會這樣子呢?因為我們今年在預計我們的預算數的時候包含我們的營所稅、中所稅還有各個稅務其實我們都已經有採用比較新的估測方式而且參考了就是這些上市櫃公司它實際上的獲利狀況還有營運的狀況那因此我們預估就是在營所稅的方面到目前為止我們是覺得跟我們的估測數應該是差不多的\n因為去年﹐我們去年﹐今年的預算數﹐營所稅是估9千多億嗎﹐營所稅\n不是啦!\n光是你所說我就可以跟你打賭啦因為我跟你說齁我們財政部的同仁喔他們其實並不是惡意啦但是他們都做比較保守的估計喔這樣子達成率都可以超過百分之百不會不會其實我們從去年開始因為這兩年我們稅收多與預算是增速大於預算數的狀況確實是比較我用一個比較參考的數字給你聽啦齁我們台灣的GDP\n就算是去年成長比較少也有一點多趴那今年估計要3點多趴也就是說台灣這幾年從來沒有麻辣死的就是在原來的基礎上一直都在疊加上去所以我個人認為喔你們的估算\n可能還是偏保守各位報告其實我們也看了今年最後那個就是政交所最公佈他們那個上市位公司今年財報跟前年的獲利確實是減損了25.63%所以我們覺得我們去年已經有參考他們可能發生的實際獲利的狀況基本上我們是覺得營所罪的估算應該是趨於何時\n但是在證交稅方面可能我們就比較沒有把握為什麼因為證交稅我們去年是估3000我們在估預算的時候是估3500億的以成交總數成交額就是包括這個OTC還有包括這個證交所這兩個\n對,但是今年上市商業公司從1到4月到目前為止他每月的成交局都已經超過了5000億所以我們覺得政交稅這部分可能是我們在顧測方面可能會有點失準的我跟你說以我的觀念國家依法收稅能夠有多收代表財政健全然後可以做更多福國利民的事包括各方面的開支因為財政是肅政之母嘛這當然是好事不是在苛求你們我們只是要求說如果你們能夠\n我認為一個國家的合理稅收如果你們的估計\n吳秉叡\n因為今年的7月開始就要編114年的預算了嘛\n一百一十五年的預算一億四一億四估一億四的是稅收的對好那因為幸好你繼續當次長對不對那我也繼續在這邊我們今天那個對話到半年多之後就可以驗證就知道到底有沒有像你講的這樣如果能夠像你講的這樣當然是很好那如果還是繼續超過很多的話就代表你們在估計的時候還有精進空間\n對,謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.598 --> 00:11.961\n主席麻煩請財政部理事長請理事長\n\n00:17.960 --> 00:39.599\n市長早現在5月是報稅季那今年有不少的新制度實施啦包括成年的年紀現在18歲從20歲下降再來另外一個就是大家比較陌生的就是CFC受控外國企業受我們台灣人控制的外國企業這個繳稅的問題那\n\n00:43.507 --> 01:01.813\n你這個CFC受供外國企業的這個繳稅,財政部在這個繳稅之前,因為這已經預告今年開始要課了嘛,從去年1月1號實施去年要課,之前有沒有宣導啊這些CFC的這個UO9知不知道今年他們得要這樣子繳稅呢?\n\n01:03.153 --> 01:22.948\n其實我們從那個報競行政院核定在前年報競行政院核定所從112年度開始就要實施這個受控企業外國公司法開始那個所得稅即開始我們就包含我們複稅署還有各地去國稅局就一直持續的在做宣導那宣導的方式其實包含了就是我們當然發布新聞稿做相關的說明\n\n01:25.109 --> 01:33.476\n但是最重要的是我們跟所有的會計師工會、記賬師工會還有這些報稅代言工會逐一的去做工會詳細的說明那如果企業這方面呢他們有需求希望我們能夠對他們一對一的輔導的話我們各地區國稅局也都是派員親自去做相關的輔導\n\n01:45.226 --> 02:02.321\n請問這個新的制度會影響到多少人?然後你估計這個可以課到多少稅收?目前我們是預估從上市櫃公司的統計資料來看的話大概會有七成左右的企業也就是將近1245家\n\n02:05.584 --> 02:17.974\n包括上市櫃企業因為他們可能因為都有對外投資的行為那這些企業可能會受到我們CFC稅制的影響那有關稅收的統計因為近幾年我們其實沒有實際上的統計但是我們在103年當時有委託過學者研究大概估計是每年平均大概有盈餘國外的盈餘大概有1295億元那可能影響的稅收大概是55億元\n\n02:34.707 --> 02:48.415\n但是因為這幾年其實是因為因為我們有很多除了這個CLC它不是你所有的每一塊盈餘都要課稅它基本上還有一些豁免條款比如說你雖然是在低稅負地區投資但是呢你如果在低稅負地區有實質的營運活動\n\n03:13.934 --> 03:38.269\n那如果是這樣的話,今年預估因為112年度的盈利事業所得稅是收到9000多億然後個人的綜合所得稅的部分是收到5000多億所以去年啊,持收數比預估數比那個預算數多很多原因主要是這些都有蠻大的這個gap啦那你今年你認為呢?\n\n03:39.728 --> 04:03.490\n您估計今年會不會也會這樣子呢?因為我們今年在預計我們的預算數的時候包含我們的營所稅、中所稅還有各個稅務其實我們都已經有採用比較新的估測方式而且參考了就是這些上市櫃公司它實際上的獲利狀況還有營運的狀況那因此我們預估就是在營所稅的方面到目前為止我們是覺得跟我們的估測數應該是差不多的\n\n04:06.212 --> 04:13.717\n因為去年﹐我們去年﹐今年的預算數﹐營所稅是估9千多億嗎﹐營所稅\n\n04:20.612 --> 04:20.792\n不是啦!\n\n04:39.229 --> 05:04.446\n光是你所說我就可以跟你打賭啦因為我跟你說齁我們財政部的同仁喔他們其實並不是惡意啦但是他們都做比較保守的估計喔這樣子達成率都可以超過百分之百不會不會其實我們從去年開始因為這兩年我們稅收多與預算是增速大於預算數的狀況確實是比較我用一個比較參考的數字給你聽啦齁我們台灣的GDP\n\n05:05.836 --> 05:22.566\n就算是去年成長比較少也有一點多趴那今年估計要3點多趴也就是說台灣這幾年從來沒有麻辣死的就是在原來的基礎上一直都在疊加上去所以我個人認為喔你們的估算\n\n05:23.854 --> 05:37.479\n可能還是偏保守各位報告其實我們也看了今年最後那個就是政交所最公佈他們那個上市位公司今年財報跟前年的獲利確實是減損了25.63%所以我們覺得我們去年已經有參考他們可能發生的實際獲利的狀況基本上我們是覺得營所罪的估算應該是趨於何時\n\n05:48.743 --> 06:00.833\n但是在證交稅方面可能我們就比較沒有把握為什麼因為證交稅我們去年是估3000我們在估預算的時候是估3500億的以成交總數成交額就是包括這個OTC還有包括這個證交所這兩個\n\n06:06.897 --> 06:34.673\n對,但是今年上市商業公司從1到4月到目前為止他每月的成交局都已經超過了5000億所以我們覺得政交稅這部分可能是我們在顧測方面可能會有點失準的我跟你說以我的觀念國家依法收稅能夠有多收代表財政健全然後可以做更多福國利民的事包括各方面的開支因為財政是肅政之母嘛這當然是好事不是在苛求你們我們只是要求說如果你們能夠\n\n06:35.694 --> 06:36.694\n我認為一個國家的合理稅收如果你們的估計\n\n07:27.022 --> 07:28.403\n因為今年的7月開始就要編114年的預算了嘛\n\n07:52.578 --> 08:16.354\n一百一十五年的預算一億四一億四估一億四的是稅收的對好那因為幸好你繼續當次長對不對那我也繼續在這邊我們今天那個對話到半年多之後就可以驗證就知道到底有沒有像你講的這樣如果能夠像你講的這樣當然是很好那如果還是繼續超過很多的話就代表你們在估計的時候還有精進空間\n\n08:17.495 --> 08:17.515\n對,謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.598,"end":11.961,"text":"主席麻煩請財政部理事長請理事長"},{"start":17.96,"end":39.599,"text":"市長早現在5月是報稅季那今年有不少的新制度實施啦包括成年的年紀現在18歲從20歲下降再來另外一個就是大家比較陌生的就是CFC受控外國企業受我們台灣人控制的外國企業這個繳稅的問題那"},{"start":43.507,"end":61.813,"text":"你這個CFC受供外國企業的這個繳稅,財政部在這個繳稅之前,因為這已經預告今年開始要課了嘛,從去年1月1號實施去年要課,之前有沒有宣導啊這些CFC的這個UO9知不知道今年他們得要這樣子繳稅呢?"},{"start":63.153,"end":82.948,"text":"其實我們從那個報競行政院核定在前年報競行政院核定所從112年度開始就要實施這個受控企業外國公司法開始那個所得稅即開始我們就包含我們複稅署還有各地去國稅局就一直持續的在做宣導那宣導的方式其實包含了就是我們當然發布新聞稿做相關的說明"},{"start":85.109,"end":93.476,"text":"但是最重要的是我們跟所有的會計師工會、記賬師工會還有這些報稅代言工會逐一的去做工會詳細的說明那如果企業這方面呢他們有需求希望我們能夠對他們一對一的輔導的話我們各地區國稅局也都是派員親自去做相關的輔導"},{"start":105.226,"end":122.321,"text":"請問這個新的制度會影響到多少人?然後你估計這個可以課到多少稅收?目前我們是預估從上市櫃公司的統計資料來看的話大概會有七成左右的企業也就是將近1245家"},{"start":125.584,"end":137.974,"text":"包括上市櫃企業因為他們可能因為都有對外投資的行為那這些企業可能會受到我們CFC稅制的影響那有關稅收的統計因為近幾年我們其實沒有實際上的統計但是我們在103年當時有委託過學者研究大概估計是每年平均大概有盈餘國外的盈餘大概有1295億元那可能影響的稅收大概是55億元"},{"start":154.707,"end":168.415,"text":"但是因為這幾年其實是因為因為我們有很多除了這個CLC它不是你所有的每一塊盈餘都要課稅它基本上還有一些豁免條款比如說你雖然是在低稅負地區投資但是呢你如果在低稅負地區有實質的營運活動"},{"start":170.316,"end":193.814,"text":"﹚吳秉叡"},{"start":193.934,"end":218.269,"text":"那如果是這樣的話,今年預估因為112年度的盈利事業所得稅是收到9000多億然後個人的綜合所得稅的部分是收到5000多億所以去年啊,持收數比預估數比那個預算數多很多原因主要是這些都有蠻大的這個gap啦那你今年你認為呢?"},{"start":219.728,"end":243.49,"text":"您估計今年會不會也會這樣子呢?因為我們今年在預計我們的預算數的時候包含我們的營所稅、中所稅還有各個稅務其實我們都已經有採用比較新的估測方式而且參考了就是這些上市櫃公司它實際上的獲利狀況還有營運的狀況那因此我們預估就是在營所稅的方面到目前為止我們是覺得跟我們的估測數應該是差不多的"},{"start":246.212,"end":253.717,"text":"因為去年﹐我們去年﹐今年的預算數﹐營所稅是估9千多億嗎﹐營所稅"},{"start":260.612,"end":260.792,"text":"不是啦!"},{"start":279.229,"end":304.446,"text":"光是你所說我就可以跟你打賭啦因為我跟你說齁我們財政部的同仁喔他們其實並不是惡意啦但是他們都做比較保守的估計喔這樣子達成率都可以超過百分之百不會不會其實我們從去年開始因為這兩年我們稅收多與預算是增速大於預算數的狀況確實是比較我用一個比較參考的數字給你聽啦齁我們台灣的GDP"},{"start":305.836,"end":322.566,"text":"就算是去年成長比較少也有一點多趴那今年估計要3點多趴也就是說台灣這幾年從來沒有麻辣死的就是在原來的基礎上一直都在疊加上去所以我個人認為喔你們的估算"},{"start":323.854,"end":337.479,"text":"可能還是偏保守各位報告其實我們也看了今年最後那個就是政交所最公佈他們那個上市位公司今年財報跟前年的獲利確實是減損了25.63%所以我們覺得我們去年已經有參考他們可能發生的實際獲利的狀況基本上我們是覺得營所罪的估算應該是趨於何時"},{"start":348.743,"end":360.833,"text":"但是在證交稅方面可能我們就比較沒有把握為什麼因為證交稅我們去年是估3000我們在估預算的時候是估3500億的以成交總數成交額就是包括這個OTC還有包括這個證交所這兩個"},{"start":366.897,"end":394.673,"text":"對,但是今年上市商業公司從1到4月到目前為止他每月的成交局都已經超過了5000億所以我們覺得政交稅這部分可能是我們在顧測方面可能會有點失準的我跟你說以我的觀念國家依法收稅能夠有多收代表財政健全然後可以做更多福國利民的事包括各方面的開支因為財政是肅政之母嘛這當然是好事不是在苛求你們我們只是要求說如果你們能夠"},{"start":395.694,"end":396.694,"text":"我認為一個國家的合理稅收如果你們的估計"},{"start":422.637,"end":447.022,"text":"吳秉叡"},{"start":447.022,"end":448.403,"text":"因為今年的7月開始就要編114年的預算了嘛"},{"start":472.578,"end":496.354,"text":"一百一十五年的預算一億四一億四估一億四的是稅收的對好那因為幸好你繼續當次長對不對那我也繼續在這邊我們今天那個對話到半年多之後就可以驗證就知道到底有沒有像你講的這樣如果能夠像你講的這樣當然是很好那如果還是繼續超過很多的話就代表你們在估計的時候還有精進空間"},{"start":497.495,"end":497.515,"text":"對,謝謝委員"}]}}}}