{"id":152205,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152205","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6319d5f220c85a68e1cfb6306cc5837002d7c7fd85210785801aa916026d4d4278ef0510ede47c525ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林國成","委員發言時間":"10:44:06 - 10:51:38","影片長度":"00:07:32","會議時間":"2024-05-06T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長王國材「針對台鐵票價上漲暨列車準點率提升作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-06","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-11"},"duration":452,"end_time":"2024-05-06T10:51:38+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-06T10:44:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":198,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（10時44分）主席，請胡次長，還有杜董事長。"],["主席：請胡次長、杜董。"],["林委員國成：胡次長、杜董。"],["胡次長湘麟：林委員好。"],["林委員國成：整個官方的臺鐵轉為公司化，其目的是什麼？次長跟杜董，一個人20秒，為什麼臺鐵轉為公司化？可以跟本席講一下嗎？"],["胡次長湘麟：我們希望臺鐵的經營能夠有效，能夠永續經營，同時達到安全、便利的目標。"],["林委員國成：好，董事長。"],["杜董事長微：是，就是剛剛次長也有講，我們大概有4個目標：確保安全，提升服務、永續經營，跟我們公司本身要成為一個幸福企業。"],["林委員國成：好，兩位的這種理想化，當然本席也認為OK，但是我今天要跟你探討的，請董事長看一下，第一個，改為公司化之後，福利沒有增加、薪水比別人低，人才流失這個部分。董事長，以2月份招考跟正取來看，為什麼招考不足？"],["杜董事長微：好，跟委員報告，招考不足的因素有幾個，最主要因素是這一次從業人員的招考是分區域，我們也發現在東區這種情形比較顯著，就是在東區，我們招考的情形是比較不理想一點。"],["林委員國成：好，董事長，其實我坦白講，次長所講的，希望你們公司化後能提升它的競爭力，當然在我認為臺鐵完全屬於政府所屬，但是現在轉為公司化，在各種的活潑性、競爭力以及行政法人當中，在這個部分當然有很多，舉例像招標、管理、經營是較為彈性的，所以不要在一開始，這些福利也沒有增加，薪水也比別人低，人才都招不進來，這代表什麼？就代表你們在規劃的過程當中是沒有吸引力的，所以國家的臺鐵轉為國家的公司化企業，這是給你們的很大空間，所以轉為公司化當然就要有企業精神，就要有創新的做法，這不是這樣嗎？董事長。","所以不要死板板的，連一開始……現在失業率這麼高，怎麼會招不到人？招出來的人，請問一下，你們要去學一學人家日本交通事業的鐵道管理，它也是國營，但是它是公司化經營的精神，你知道他們的員工一進來規定158以上或160，那是亭亭玉立的，你是車長、列車長，你應該要有怎麼樣的禮數，就像百貨公司的禮數，看到人是九十度鞠躬的，同樣一件事情，會讓人家的感覺是不一樣的感覺，這才是轉為公司化最主要的原因，不是嗎？所以董事長這個部分，我要拜託你要加強、要加強。"],["杜董事長微：是。"],["林委員國成：第二個，你們現在就要漲票價，可是你這種漲票價，跟老百姓的感覺確確實實是有所差距的，所以我還是要建議董事長，這裡你特別也要加強一下。","最後，董事長，你到屏東潮州巡視，副站長親自跟你陳情，陳情什麼？"],["杜董事長微：這位副站長跟我陳情的是有關於一些站務的設施，還有我們對員工的照顧，還有對旅客規定的要求。"],["林委員國成：好，董事長，因為我的時間也到了，但是我坦白跟你講，員工內部訴訟管道是不暢通的，不要轉為公司化後還是官僚氣息，所有員工不是只有副站長，副站長都可以跟你申訴，可想而知其他的員工會變成怎麼樣，所以這一點你不要被蒙在鼓裡，這一點我要拜託我們董事長特別要去注意，請問一下董事長，你們副總經理有多少？"],["杜董事長微：我們現在有五位。"],["林委員國成：五位，我告訴你，你做的決定，任何一個副總經理就可以推翻你，他認為，我副總就是決定，董事長、總經理講了都沒有用。董事長，在漲票價以前，所有的乘客就是你們的資產，你們應該要怎麼做？拜託！你們副總經理之間各司其職，我們尊重，但是董事長跟總經理所講的話，他可以推翻喔？因為時間的關係，我只是提供給董事長，你未來要代表政府經營公司化的臺鐵，跟人家交通事業來對決、來拼生意，不是像你們現在的做法，所以董事長，票價要漲要三思，先做給人家看，再來漲票價啦！你們的服務品質跟人家高鐵的服務品質、跟人家國外的服務品質做個比較以後再來漲票價，這樣才不會造成民怨，所以這一點我特別鼓勵一下我們的次長和董事長，所以這個部分一定要刻不容緩、趕快改進，好不好？"],["胡次長湘麟：謝謝。"],["主席：下一位請李昆澤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":108,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-11","speakers":["陳雪生","林國成","林沛祥","李昆澤","黃建賓","廖先翔","魯明哲","徐富癸","蔡其昌","陳素月","林俊憲","黃健豪","何欣純","邱若華","王鴻薇","游顥","林德福","洪孟楷","黃國昌","林月琴","張啓楷","黃珊珊","黃仁","許智傑","陳冠廷"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2024-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1134101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長王國材「針對台鐵票價上漲暨列車準點率提升作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134101_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152205","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152205","tool":"pyannote","id":"152205-pyannote"},"job_id":"zQ6DvS9VYFeYBUNF","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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{\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 449.88, \"end\": 449.96, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 449.96, \"end\": 449.98, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 449.98, \"end\": 450.04, \"score\": 0.625}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 450.04, \"end\": 450.06, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,913 --> 00:00:29,209\n主席請我們胡次長還有杜董事長好來來胡次長來杜董我想在整個官方的台鐵轉為民運\n\n2\n00:00:32,972 --> 00:00:45,440\n其目的是什麼?市長阿嘎、杜董一個人二十秒為什麼台鐵轉為民營?我們希望台鐵的經營能夠有效能夠永續經營同時達到安全便利的目標好來董事長\n\n3\n00:01:00,410 --> 00:01:28,319\n是就是剛剛次長有講我們大概有四個目標確保安全提升服務永續經營跟我們公司本身要成為一個幸福企業好當然因為兩位這種理想化當然本席也認為OK啦但是我今天要跟你探討的第一來董事長你看一下來第一個\n\n4\n00:01:30,011 --> 00:01:48,985\n改為民營：福利沒有增加：薪水比別人低：人才流失：這個部分來當事定二月份招考：跟贈取為什麼招考不足\n\n5\n00:01:53,111 --> 00:02:18,077\n這個委員報告招考不足因素有幾個最主要因素是我們在這一次我們從業人員的招考我們是分區域的那我們也發現在東區是這種情形比較顯著就是在東區我們招考的這個情形是比較不理想一點好\n\n6\n00:02:19,295 --> 00:02:25,418\n董事長其實我坦白講次長所講的不管你們民營機構他跟這個競爭力啊當然\n\n7\n00:02:32,947 --> 00:02:53,839\n在我的認為台鐵完全屬於政府首屬但是現在轉為民營在各種的活潑性競爭力以及行政法人當中在這個部分當然有很多舉例招標管理經營是較為彈性的\n\n8\n00:02:56,661 --> 00:03:17,494\n所以不要一開始就這些福利也沒有增加薪水也比別人低人才都招不進來這代表什麼就代表你們在規劃的過程當中是沒有吸引力的沒有吸引力的所以國家的台鐵轉為國家的民營企業\n\n9\n00:03:23,420 --> 00:03:33,918\n這是給你們很大空間耶所以當然轉為民營就要有企業精神就要有創新的做法這不是這樣嗎董事長\n\n10\n00:03:35,566 --> 00:03:59,617\n所以不料死板板的連一開始現在事業力這麼高怎麼會招不到人呢那招出來的人請問一下你們要去寫寫人家日本交通事業的這個鐵道管理他也是國營但是他是民營經營的精神\n\n11\n00:04:01,294 --> 00:04:18,567\n你知道喔你知道他們的員工一進來規定158以上或160那是挺挺屹立的你是車長列車長你應該要怎麼樣的禮數就像百貨公司的禮數你看到人\n\n12\n00:04:19,528 --> 00:04:38,974\n看到人他是90度急攻的同樣一件事情會讓人家感覺是不一樣的感覺這才是轉為民營最主要的原因不是嗎所以董事長這個部分我要拜託你要加強來第二個你們現在就要漲票價\n\n13\n00:04:41,115 --> 00:05:07,127\n可是你這種你這種漲票價跟老百姓的感覺確確實實是有所差異的所以我還是要建議董事長你這裡特別也要加強一下來最後來借下一張來董事長你到你到屏東潮州副站長喔親自跟你陳情來陳情什麼\n\n14\n00:05:12,136 --> 00:05:31,989\n這位副總統跟我澄清的是有關於一些戰務的設施還有我們對員工的一個照顧還有對旅客的一個規定的一個要求好那個董事長因為我時間也到但是我坦白跟你講員工內部訴訟管道是不暢通的\n\n15\n00:05:33,442 --> 00:05:34,123\n我們現在有五位五位喔我告訴你喔\n\n16\n00:06:03,885 --> 00:06:17,719\n我告訴你你做的決定任何一個副總經理就可以推翻你他認為我副總就是決定董事長總經理講的都沒有用董事長\n\n17\n00:06:20,140 --> 00:06:41,892\n票價以前人民所有的乘客就是你們的資產所有你們應該要怎麼做拜託你們互中經理背負重感各自起始讓我們尊重但是董事長跟總經理所講的話他可以推翻喔這是\n\n18\n00:06:42,532 --> 00:07:04,000\n因為時間的關係我只是提供給董事長你未來要代表政府經營民營跟人家交通事業來對決來拼生意不是像你們現在的做法所以董事長票價要漲要善失\n\n19\n00:07:04,500 --> 00:07:30,060\n先做給人家看再來漲票價啦你們的服務品質跟人家高鐵的服務品質跟人家國外的服務品質做個比較以後再來漲票價這樣才不會造成民怨所以這點我特別鼓勵我們次長跟我們這個董事長一下所以這個部分一定要趕快刻不容緩趕快改進好不好好謝謝謝謝國政來做一下\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4913\t29209\t主席請我們胡次長還有杜董事長好來來胡次長來杜董我想在整個官方的台鐵轉為民運\n32972\t45440\t其目的是什麼?市長阿嘎、杜董一個人二十秒為什麼台鐵轉為民營?我們希望台鐵的經營能夠有效能夠永續經營同時達到安全便利的目標好來董事長\n60410\t88319\t是就是剛剛次長有講我們大概有四個目標確保安全提升服務永續經營跟我們公司本身要成為一個幸福企業好當然因為兩位這種理想化當然本席也認為OK啦但是我今天要跟你探討的第一來董事長你看一下來第一個\n90011\t108985\t改為民營：福利沒有增加：薪水比別人低：人才流失：這個部分來當事定二月份招考：跟贈取為什麼招考不足\n113111\t138077\t這個委員報告 招考不足因素有幾個最主要因素是我們在這一次我們從業人員的招考我們是分區域的那我們也發現在東區是這種情形比較顯著就是在東區我們招考的這個情形是比較不理想一點好\n139295\t145418\t董事長其實我坦白講次長所講的不管你們民營機構他跟這個競爭力啊當然\n152947\t173839\t在我的認為 台鐵完全屬於政府首屬但是現在轉為民營在各種的活潑性 競爭力以及行政法人當中在這個部分當然有很多舉例 招標 管理 經營是較為彈性的\n176661\t197494\t所以不要一開始就這些福利也沒有增加薪水也比別人低人才都招不進來這代表什麼就代表你們在規劃的過程當中是沒有吸引力的沒有吸引力的所以國家的台鐵轉為國家的民營企業\n203420\t213918\t這是給你們很大空間耶所以當然轉為民營就要有企業精神就要有創新的做法這不是這樣嗎董事長\n215566\t239617\t所以不料死板板的連一開始現在事業力這麼高怎麼會招不到人呢那招出來的人請問一下你們要去寫寫人家日本交通事業的這個鐵道管理他也是國營但是他是民營經營的精神\n241294\t258567\t你知道喔 你知道他們的員工一進來規定158以上或160 那是挺挺屹立的你是車長 列車長 你應該要怎麼樣的禮數就像百貨公司的禮數 你看到人\n259528\t278974\t看到人他是90度急攻的同樣一件事情會讓人家感覺是不一樣的感覺這才是轉為民營最主要的原因不是嗎所以董事長這個部分我要拜託你要加強來第二個你們現在就要漲票價\n281115\t307127\t可是你這種你這種漲票價跟老百姓的感覺確確實實是有所差異的所以我還是要建議董事長你這裡特別也要加強一下來最後來借下一張來董事長你到你到屏東潮州副站長喔親自跟你陳情來陳情什麼\n312136\t331989\t這位副總統跟我澄清的是有關於一些戰務的設施還有我們對員工的一個照顧還有對旅客的一個規定的一個要求好 那個董事長因為我時間也到但是我坦白跟你講員工內部訴訟管道是不暢通的\n333442\t334123\t我們現在有五位五位喔我告訴你喔\n363885\t377719\t我告訴你你做的決定任何一個副總經理就可以推翻你他認為我副總就是決定董事長總經理講的都沒有用董事長\n380140\t401892\t票價以前人民所有的乘客就是你們的資產所有你們應該要怎麼做拜託你們互中經理背負重感各自起始讓我們尊重但是董事長跟總經理所講的話他可以推翻喔這是\n402532\t424000\t因為時間的關係我只是提供給董事長你未來要代表政府經營民營跟人家交通事業來對決來拼生意不是像你們現在的做法所以董事長票價要漲要善失\n424500\t450060\t先做給人家看再來漲票價啦你們的服務品質跟人家高鐵的服務品質跟人家國外的服務品質做個比較以後再來漲票價這樣才不會造成民怨所以這點我特別鼓勵我們次長跟我們這個董事長一下所以這個部分一定要趕快刻不容緩趕快改進好不好好謝謝謝謝國政來做一下\n","txt":"主席請我們胡次長還有杜董事長好來來胡次長來杜董我想在整個官方的台鐵轉為民運\n其目的是什麼?市長阿嘎、杜董一個人二十秒為什麼台鐵轉為民營?我們希望台鐵的經營能夠有效能夠永續經營同時達到安全便利的目標好來董事長\n是就是剛剛次長有講我們大概有四個目標確保安全提升服務永續經營跟我們公司本身要成為一個幸福企業好當然因為兩位這種理想化當然本席也認為OK啦但是我今天要跟你探討的第一來董事長你看一下來第一個\n改為民營：福利沒有增加：薪水比別人低：人才流失：這個部分來當事定二月份招考：跟贈取為什麼招考不足\n這個委員報告 招考不足因素有幾個最主要因素是我們在這一次我們從業人員的招考我們是分區域的那我們也發現在東區是這種情形比較顯著就是在東區我們招考的這個情形是比較不理想一點好\n董事長其實我坦白講次長所講的不管你們民營機構他跟這個競爭力啊當然\n在我的認為 台鐵完全屬於政府首屬但是現在轉為民營在各種的活潑性 競爭力以及行政法人當中在這個部分當然有很多舉例 招標 管理 經營是較為彈性的\n所以不要一開始就這些福利也沒有增加薪水也比別人低人才都招不進來這代表什麼就代表你們在規劃的過程當中是沒有吸引力的沒有吸引力的所以國家的台鐵轉為國家的民營企業\n這是給你們很大空間耶所以當然轉為民營就要有企業精神就要有創新的做法這不是這樣嗎董事長\n所以不料死板板的連一開始現在事業力這麼高怎麼會招不到人呢那招出來的人請問一下你們要去寫寫人家日本交通事業的這個鐵道管理他也是國營但是他是民營經營的精神\n你知道喔 你知道他們的員工一進來規定158以上或160 那是挺挺屹立的你是車長 列車長 你應該要怎麼樣的禮數就像百貨公司的禮數 你看到人\n看到人他是90度急攻的同樣一件事情會讓人家感覺是不一樣的感覺這才是轉為民營最主要的原因不是嗎所以董事長這個部分我要拜託你要加強來第二個你們現在就要漲票價\n可是你這種你這種漲票價跟老百姓的感覺確確實實是有所差異的所以我還是要建議董事長你這裡特別也要加強一下來最後來借下一張來董事長你到你到屏東潮州副站長喔親自跟你陳情來陳情什麼\n這位副總統跟我澄清的是有關於一些戰務的設施還有我們對員工的一個照顧還有對旅客的一個規定的一個要求好 那個董事長因為我時間也到但是我坦白跟你講員工內部訴訟管道是不暢通的\n我們現在有五位五位喔我告訴你喔\n我告訴你你做的決定任何一個副總經理就可以推翻你他認為我副總就是決定董事長總經理講的都沒有用董事長\n票價以前人民所有的乘客就是你們的資產所有你們應該要怎麼做拜託你們互中經理背負重感各自起始讓我們尊重但是董事長跟總經理所講的話他可以推翻喔這是\n因為時間的關係我只是提供給董事長你未來要代表政府經營民營跟人家交通事業來對決來拼生意不是像你們現在的做法所以董事長票價要漲要善失\n先做給人家看再來漲票價啦你們的服務品質跟人家高鐵的服務品質跟人家國外的服務品質做個比較以後再來漲票價這樣才不會造成民怨所以這點我特別鼓勵我們次長跟我們這個董事長一下所以這個部分一定要趕快刻不容緩趕快改進好不好好謝謝謝謝國政來做一下\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.913 --> 00:29.209\n主席請我們胡次長還有杜董事長好來來胡次長來杜董我想在整個官方的台鐵轉為民運\n\n00:32.972 --> 00:45.440\n其目的是什麼?市長阿嘎、杜董一個人二十秒為什麼台鐵轉為民營?我們希望台鐵的經營能夠有效能夠永續經營同時達到安全便利的目標好來董事長\n\n01:00.410 --> 01:28.319\n是就是剛剛次長有講我們大概有四個目標確保安全提升服務永續經營跟我們公司本身要成為一個幸福企業好當然因為兩位這種理想化當然本席也認為OK啦但是我今天要跟你探討的第一來董事長你看一下來第一個\n\n01:30.011 --> 01:48.985\n改為民營：福利沒有增加：薪水比別人低：人才流失：這個部分來當事定二月份招考：跟贈取為什麼招考不足\n\n01:53.111 --> 02:18.077\n這個委員報告招考不足因素有幾個最主要因素是我們在這一次我們從業人員的招考我們是分區域的那我們也發現在東區是這種情形比較顯著就是在東區我們招考的這個情形是比較不理想一點好\n\n02:19.295 --> 02:25.418\n董事長其實我坦白講次長所講的不管你們民營機構他跟這個競爭力啊當然\n\n02:32.947 --> 02:53.839\n在我的認為台鐵完全屬於政府首屬但是現在轉為民營在各種的活潑性競爭力以及行政法人當中在這個部分當然有很多舉例招標管理經營是較為彈性的\n\n02:56.661 --> 03:17.494\n所以不要一開始就這些福利也沒有增加薪水也比別人低人才都招不進來這代表什麼就代表你們在規劃的過程當中是沒有吸引力的沒有吸引力的所以國家的台鐵轉為國家的民營企業\n\n03:23.420 --> 03:33.918\n這是給你們很大空間耶所以當然轉為民營就要有企業精神就要有創新的做法這不是這樣嗎董事長\n\n03:35.566 --> 03:59.617\n所以不料死板板的連一開始現在事業力這麼高怎麼會招不到人呢那招出來的人請問一下你們要去寫寫人家日本交通事業的這個鐵道管理他也是國營但是他是民營經營的精神\n\n04:01.294 --> 04:18.567\n你知道喔你知道他們的員工一進來規定158以上或160那是挺挺屹立的你是車長列車長你應該要怎麼樣的禮數就像百貨公司的禮數你看到人\n\n04:19.528 --> 04:38.974\n看到人他是90度急攻的同樣一件事情會讓人家感覺是不一樣的感覺這才是轉為民營最主要的原因不是嗎所以董事長這個部分我要拜託你要加強來第二個你們現在就要漲票價\n\n04:41.115 --> 05:07.127\n可是你這種你這種漲票價跟老百姓的感覺確確實實是有所差異的所以我還是要建議董事長你這裡特別也要加強一下來最後來借下一張來董事長你到你到屏東潮州副站長喔親自跟你陳情來陳情什麼\n\n05:12.136 --> 05:31.989\n這位副總統跟我澄清的是有關於一些戰務的設施還有我們對員工的一個照顧還有對旅客的一個規定的一個要求好那個董事長因為我時間也到但是我坦白跟你講員工內部訴訟管道是不暢通的\n\n05:33.442 --> 05:34.123\n我們現在有五位五位喔我告訴你喔\n\n06:03.885 --> 06:17.719\n我告訴你你做的決定任何一個副總經理就可以推翻你他認為我副總就是決定董事長總經理講的都沒有用董事長\n\n06:20.140 --> 06:41.892\n票價以前人民所有的乘客就是你們的資產所有你們應該要怎麼做拜託你們互中經理背負重感各自起始讓我們尊重但是董事長跟總經理所講的話他可以推翻喔這是\n\n06:42.532 --> 07:04.000\n因為時間的關係我只是提供給董事長你未來要代表政府經營民營跟人家交通事業來對決來拼生意不是像你們現在的做法所以董事長票價要漲要善失\n\n07:04.500 --> 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