{"id":152211,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152211","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6319d5f220c85a68ded5c4cbc6a1a34302d7c7fd85210785801aa916026d4d42d7dcd980b23cef445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡其昌","委員發言時間":"11:17:30 - 11:27:22","影片長度":"00:09:52","會議時間":"2024-05-06T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長王國材「針對台鐵票價上漲暨列車準點率提升作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-06","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-11"},"duration":592,"end_time":"2024-05-06T11:27:22+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-06T11:17:30+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":289,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（11時17分）謝謝主席，請胡次長跟杜董事長。"],["主席：胡次長、杜董。"],["胡次長湘麟：蔡委員你好。"],["蔡委員其昌：兩位好。今天召委特別安排，就臺鐵的票價要上漲跟本席上次質詢提過的準點率來做一個專案報告。在本席的想法上，其實上一次的時間有限。臺鐵已經公司化，但是我覺得臺鐵現在要談漲價，在實務面上我當然知道，不過就算是依照政府對票價訂定的辦法，臺鐵只要一次漲足那相當驚人嘛！好，不要一次漲足，就苦民所苦，你不漲價，就是政府一定要補貼，這個邏輯很簡單，跟電一樣，最好大家都不要漲，可是電不漲是政府買單，就是全民買單。一旦全民買單，用很多電的大戶還是要由小老百姓來幫忙買單，反正全民買單嘛！大戶用電多，他用的人民納稅錢就多，所以漲價的議題事實上很困難，每個委員上來一定都說苦民所苦，最好不要漲，可是不要漲的背後，大家都不知道到底是誰在付這個錢。漲價一定也跟臺鐵的永續經營有關係，臺鐵倒了還是全民買單，所以這是一個很兩難的議題啦！","我站在民意代表的立場，我當然要站在人民那邊，但是也一樣站在人民的角度，從比較高的層次來看待這個問題，事實上它很務實，因為最終還是人民買單，只是沒有直接從人民的口袋拿，間接從他的口袋拿。好，那要漲價，所以漲價的題目很務實，也該理性來討論，但是站在民代的立場，本席認為要漲價之前有兩個問題臺鐵一定要取得人民的認同，至少大家會甘願一點，一個是安全，一個是服務。我們沒有辦法抽象地在這裡談什麼叫安全、什麼叫服務，而應該有一些指標來談一個企業的安全跟服務，特別像是交通事業，安全就是信任，假如你對這個交通運輸事業不信任，你是不可能去搭乘的。當然遇到臺鐵就沒有辦法，因為你們是獨占嘛！不能有第二家鐵路公司，所以我只能選擇你們，因此這時候安全就會變成你們更重要的職責，我也知道你們要成立安全委員會，辦法已經通過了，但是好像還沒有成立。"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告，因為有需要依循的要點跟一些相關規定要經過董事會，董事會在最近這一次已經過了，所以我們這個月一定可以讓它開始運作。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，我要強調的意思是，我非常支持安全委員會的設立，但是我希望這個安全委員會一定是要有功效的安全委員會，它不是3個月開一次會，然後大家聊備一格。你要賦予這個安全委員會實質的功能，怎麼來作為臺鐵公司在安全問題上的建議，甚至怎麼適度地監督，或者是怎麼樣可以讓它在安全的整個SOP機制裡面發揮角色，我認為這些是你在設計這個安全委員會裡面很重要的。","我說信任是一個很長期性的議題，有安全才會有信任，而信任又是長期性的問題，它毀滅很快，只要一次事故或者什麼就毀滅掉你長期建立的信任，所以要建立這個不容易，你必須有很強烈的決心跟耐心來處理這個，因此這是本席對臺鐵的第一個期待，就是你們的安全委員會要儘早成立，這裡面千萬不要都邀請一些聊備一格的人員，大家只是來簽名報到的，你的這些人是要實質可以協助臺鐵在安全的議題上面讓人民來感受。"],["杜董事長微：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：第二個就是服務，民眾是乘客，民眾客訴高或客訴低，我就知道你們服務品質好或不好，為什麼？因為民眾有一個對比組，什麼叫對比組？高鐵就是你們的對比組。現在民眾搭高鐵，你看高鐵班班客滿，連過去下午最沒有人的時間也一票難求，立法委員也常常買不到票，我們也都是一班一班的一直等。你們的對照組就是高鐵，因此你們的服務品質若沒有達到高鐵的水準，我覺得民眾會立刻……不會有太多人去區辨，因為他們認為這背後都是政府嘛！為什麼高鐵可以做得到，而臺鐵做不到？或許臺鐵公司的同仁會覺得我這樣的指責過於嚴苛，因為基本營運條件不同，成立的背景也不同。董事長，你背負的是一個很大的殼，雖然這個殼已經改名字了，從政府改成公司，但殼還是那個殼，你怎麼快速地讓大家改觀，覺得這個服務品質跟高鐵很接近、差不多？這樣你以後要開始漲價或調任何的事情，民眾才會覺得舒服一點，不然的話，他們就是透過我們立法院一直罵。","剛剛大家提到的，包括今天主席安排的準點率議題就是一個指標，這個就很明顯，譬如高鐵的軌道都是封閉的，所以它要準點相對容易得多，對不對？這個我們都很清楚，但是民眾不會這樣覺得，只認為都是軌道運輸，而臺鐵每次就是一定會遲到，這個刻板印象非常強烈。對於你們的整體同仁，董事長，你怎麼帶領大家？整體同仁從民眾去火車站開始的搭乘經驗，你們每一個站務人員都身處服務業了，他不是公務人員、不是當官的，他是在服務業，他的笑容怎麼訓練、他的服裝儀容、親切該如何被表達出來？這些都是放在你身上的重責大任。服務是什麼？除了那些我剛剛講的像準點率這種明確的指標，人民的感受是很直接的，因為他會去高鐵站，他也會去臺鐵站，你怎麼讓他對臺鐵站的感受是很接近的？就是我講的，高鐵永遠是你們的對照組。","你們面臨的挑戰是很大的，除了營運的挑戰，也包含所有的周邊，你沒有把服務品質提升，讓人民感受好，你沒有在安全上得到人民的信任，你要談任何的漲價，我說實在話，阻力都會很大。本席今天沒有太多時間讓你回答，因為時間都很有限，所以我大概就提供這些讓你們可以有一點參考。董事長，挑戰才剛開始，不只這個，因為接下來你們是公司，所以本席接下來也會問你，未來幾年我也會問你，問你什麼問題？問你的營運目標、你的KPI在哪裡、你營收的比重、你的商品販售、你的票務收入、你其他業外的、你怎麼去帶領公司？這些都是你的挑戰嘛！你們可以得到交通部很大的協助，但是臺鐵本身在營運上面，它未來所要面臨的東西其實是很大的，因為大家都在等新的部長，包括票價的調漲，看起來也要等新部長上任之後來拍板。","次長應該要退休了，所以今天我們來這裡，我在這裡強烈質詢也沒什麼意義，說實在話，我就是祝福，次長辛苦了。董事長任重道遠，新部長怎麼給你支持？這個支持我希望不只是預算的挹注，應該讓臺鐵的經營，特別在服務、安全及創造更多業績的可能上面，你的工作跟觀光署是一致的，周副署長有來，你跟他是一致的，為什麼？因為觀光就是你，你就是觀光，你們兩個其實是一起的，只是我們在業務上把它分開。觀光人口多，觀光署推鐵道旅遊，若你的鐵道做得「離離落茖」，大家去那邊也會罵得很慘，造成它也失敗，你也失敗，所以這個是一體的。","好，時間已經到了，主席已經站很久了，他體重那麼重又站那麼久，我會不好意思，謝謝主席多給我一點時間，也謝謝兩位。"],["主席：謝謝蔡其昌前副院長。","下一位請林沛祥委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":108,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-11","speakers":["陳雪生","林國成","林沛祥","李昆澤","黃建賓","廖先翔","魯明哲","徐富癸","蔡其昌","陳素月","林俊憲","黃健豪","何欣純","邱若華","王鴻薇","游顥","林德福","洪孟楷","黃國昌","林月琴","張啓楷","黃珊珊","黃仁","許智傑","陳冠廷"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2024-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1134101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長王國材「針對台鐵票價上漲暨列車準點率提升作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134101_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152211","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152211","tool":"pyannote","id":"152211-pyannote"},"job_id":"poiQXpYCkZWTUnZd","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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\"end\": 223.56, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 223.56, \"end\": 223.74, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 223.74, \"end\": 224.18, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 224.18, \"end\": 224.601, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 224.601, \"end\": 224.621, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}]}, {\"start\": 227.643, \"end\": 244.868, \"text\": \"作為台鐵公司在安全的問題上面的一個建議甚至適度的怎麼去監督或者怎麼可以讓他在安全的整個SOP的機制裡面他可以發揮角色我認為這個是你在設計這個安全回應裡面很重要的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 227.643, \"end\": 228.363, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 228.363, \"end\": 228.623, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 228.623, \"end\": 228.783, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 228.783, \"end\": 228.863, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 228.863, \"end\": 229.043, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 229.043, \"end\": 229.344, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 229.344, \"end\": 229.604, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 229.604, \"end\": 230.284, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 230.284, \"end\": 230.464, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 230.464, \"end\": 230.664, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 230.664, \"end\": 230.844, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 230.844, \"end\": 231.324, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 231.324, \"end\": 231.944, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 231.944, \"end\": 232.244, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 232.244, \"end\": 232.905, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"適\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 232.905, \"end\": 233.065, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 233.065, \"end\": 233.245, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 233.245, \"end\": 233.525, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 233.525, \"end\": 234.025, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"督\", \"start\": 234.025, \"end\": 234.765, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 234.765, \"end\": 234.945, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 234.945, \"end\": 235.145, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 235.145, \"end\": 235.545, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 235.545, \"end\": 235.725, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 235.725, \"end\": 236.045, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 236.045, \"end\": 236.666, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 236.666, \"end\": 236.926, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 236.926, \"end\": 237.206, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 237.206, \"end\": 237.486, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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240.607, \"end\": 241.447, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 241.447, \"end\": 241.947, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 241.947, \"end\": 242.647, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 242.647, \"end\": 242.747, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 242.747, \"end\": 243.468, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 243.468, \"end\": 243.548, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 243.548, \"end\": 243.728, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 243.728, \"end\": 243.968, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 243.968, \"end\": 244.148, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 244.148, \"end\": 244.388, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 244.388, \"end\": 244.608, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"要\", 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\"間\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 585.951, \"end\": 586.251, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 586.251, \"end\": 586.331, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 586.331, \"end\": 586.351, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,109 --> 00:00:09,321\n副院長我稍微要低一點謝謝主席請胡市長跟杜董市長兩位好\n\n2\n00:00:19,017 --> 00:00:42,304\n今天這個召委特別安排就台鐵的票價要上漲跟本席上次諮詢提過的那個準點率的事情來做的一個專案報告那本席的想法上其實上一次因為時間有限台鐵因為公司化但是我覺得台鐵現在要談漲價\n\n3\n00:00:44,520 --> 00:01:12,293\n他面臨在實務面上我當然知道嘛依照這個就算依照這個政府對票價定定的辦法台鐵只要一次漲足那是相當驚人好那不要一次漲足啦就苦民所苦你不漲價就是政府一定要補貼嘛這個邏輯很簡單跟電一樣嘛最好大家都不要漲可是電不漲就是全民買政府買單就是全民買單那全民買單裡面就要叫\n\n4\n00:01:13,914 --> 00:01:35,979\n大戶用很多電的人還是要叫小老百姓要幫大戶來買單嘛因為反正全民買單嘛所以大戶用電多他用了人民的納稅錢就多嘛所以漲價的議題事實上很困難每個委員上來一定都說苦民說苦最好不要漲可是不要漲的背後大家都不知道是誰到底誰在付這個錢嘛\n\n5\n00:01:37,574 --> 00:02:01,404\n那漲價呢一定也要這個也跟台鐵的永續經營有關係嘛台鐵倒了還是全民買單所以這個是一個很兩難的議題啦站在人民代我作為民意代表的立場我當然要站在人民嘛但是站在也一樣站在人民的角度比較高層次來看待這個問題事實上他\n\n6\n00:02:04,650 --> 00:02:31,121\n他很務實因為你最終還是人民來買單只是沒有直接從人民的口袋拿間接從他的口袋拿好那要漲價所以漲價的題目很務實也該理性來討論但是站在民代的立場本席認為要漲價之前有兩個問題我認為台鐵一定要取得人民的同意的至少說大家甘願一點一個叫安全一個叫服務\n\n7\n00:02:32,486 --> 00:03:00,957\n那安全跟服務沒有辦法抽象在這裡談什麼叫安全什麼叫服務我們應該有一些指標來談一個企業的安全跟服務特別是像交通事業安全就是信任沒有你對這個交通運輸事業不信任你是不可能去打他的那當然你台鐵沒有辦法因為你是獨佔我不能有第二家鐵路公司所以我只能選擇你所以這時候安全就會變成我們更重要的職責\n\n8\n00:03:02,455 --> 00:03:28,168\n所以我也知道你們要成立那個叫做安全委員會辦法已經通過了但是好像還沒有成立這個跟委員報告齁因為有需要依循的要點跟一些相關規定要經過董事會那董事會在就是最近這一次已經過了所以我們這個月一定可以讓他開始來運作\n\n9\n00:03:29,068 --> 00:03:44,621\n那我要強調的意思是說我支持非常支持安全委員會的設立但是我希望這安全委員會他一定要有功效的安全委員會他不是一個三個月開一次會然後大家了備一個你要賦予這個安全委員會有實質怎麼來\n\n10\n00:03:47,643 --> 00:04:04,868\n作為台鐵公司在安全的問題上面的一個建議甚至適度的怎麼去監督或者怎麼可以讓他在安全的整個SOP的機制裡面他可以發揮角色我認為這個是你在設計這個安全回應裡面很重要的\n\n11\n00:04:06,038 --> 00:04:25,721\n我說信任是一個很長期性的議題就安全才會有信任而信任又是長期性的問題它毀滅很快它一次一次事故或者什麼它就毀滅掉你長期建立所以要建立這個不容易但你必須要花很你有很強烈的決心跟耐心來處理這個\n\n12\n00:04:27,142 --> 00:04:44,935\n所以這個是本席對台鐵第一個期待就你的安全委員會盡早趕快成立這裡面的人員千萬不要都邀請一些了備一格大家只是來簽名報到的你要這些人要實質可以協助台鐵在安全的議題上面讓人民來感受\n\n13\n00:04:45,996 --> 00:05:01,590\n那第二個就服務嘛那服務當然啦民眾是乘客民眾客數高跟客數低我就知道你服務品質好跟不好嘛為什麼因為民眾有一個對比組啦什麼叫對比組高鐵就是你的對比組\n\n14\n00:05:02,611 --> 00:05:22,751\n現在民眾搭高鐵現在你看高鐵班班客滿連過去那個下午最沒有人的時間也一票難求立法委員也常常買不到票我們也都是一班一班的一直等所以你的對照組就是高鐵所以你的服務品質你沒有達到高鐵那個水準\n\n15\n00:05:23,735 --> 00:05:50,589\n我覺得民眾會馬上立刻不會有人太多去區別他認為這個都是背後都是政府那為什麼台鐵可以做得到高鐵你做不到或許台鐵公司的同仁會覺得我這樣的指責過於嚴苛因為基本營運條件不同成立的背景也不同董事長你背負的是一個很大的殼雖然這個殼已經把你改名字了從政府把你改成公司但殼還是那個殼\n\n16\n00:05:52,148 --> 00:06:10,243\n所以你怎麼快速的讓人家改變你覺得這個服務品質跟高鐵很接近差不多你以後要開始調漲價調任何的事情民眾才會覺得舒服一點不然的話他就是透過我們立法院一直罵\n\n17\n00:06:11,229 --> 00:06:37,287\n那剛剛大家提到今天包括主席安排這個準點率就是一個指標嘛這個就是很明顯譬如說他老是因為高鐵他封閉啦他的軌道都是封閉啦所以他要準點相對容易多嘛對不對這個我們都很清楚但是民眾不會這樣覺得這都是軌道運輸啊啊你這台鐵喔大概就是一定會遲到欸這個刻板印象非常強烈\n\n18\n00:06:38,137 --> 00:07:03,984\n那我們的整體的同仁董事長你怎麼帶領大家這個整體同仁的從民眾去火車站開始的搭乘經驗我們每一個站務人員他不在他是服務業的他不是公務人員他不是當官的他是服務業所以他的笑容怎麼訓練他的服裝儀容怎麼親切該如何被表達出來這個都是\n\n19\n00:07:06,502 --> 00:07:29,740\n放在你身上的重責大任嘛服務是什麼除了那些我剛剛講像準點率這種明確的指標他從人民的感受是很直接的因為他會去高鐵站他也會去台鐵站那你怎麼讓台鐵站他的那個感受是很接近我就講永遠高鐵是你的對照組所以你們的面臨的挑戰是很大的\n\n20\n00:07:30,595 --> 00:07:54,889\n除了你的營運的挑戰你所有的這些周邊你沒有談沒有把服務品質提升讓人民感受好你沒有在安全上得到人民的信任你要談任何的漲價我說實在話主力都會很大所以本席今天沒有太多時間讓你回答因為時間都很有限所以我大概我就提供這個讓你們可以有一點這個參考那\n\n21\n00:07:56,909 --> 00:08:21,408\n董事長那個挑戰才剛開始不只這個因為你接下來你是公司所以本席也接下來會問你未來幾年我會問你問你什麼問題問你說你的營運目標你的KPI在哪裡你營收的比重你的商品販售你的票物收入你的其他業外的你怎麼去弄這個公司這個都是你的挑戰\n\n22\n00:08:22,762 --> 00:08:40,323\n所以你可以得到交通部很大的協助但是台鐵本身在營運上面他未來所要面臨的東西其實是很大的那因為大家都在等新的部長包括票價的調漲看起來也要等新的部長上任之後來拍板\n\n23\n00:08:41,605 --> 00:08:59,944\n那次長應該要退休了所以今天我們來這裡我在這裡強烈質詢也沒什麼意義說實在話那我就祝福次長辛苦了董事長你任重道遠新的部長怎麼給你支持這個支持我希望不是只是預算的挹注\n\n24\n00:09:00,925 --> 00:09:24,016\n他應該在經營讓台鐵的經營特別在服務安全跟創造更多的業績的可能上面你的工作跟觀光署是一致的那個周副署長有來你跟他是一致的為什麼因為觀光就是你你就是觀光你們兩個其實是一起的只是我們業務上把它分開來觀光人口多大家對台鐵\n\n25\n00:09:25,177 --> 00:09:46,351\n觀光署推鐵道旅遊,你的鐵道做到你離落落,大家去那邊也要死那這個他也失敗,你也失敗嘛,所以這個是一體的,這是一體的好啦時間已經到了,主席已經站很久了啦,不好意思,他體重那麼重又站那麼久,不好意思那謝謝主席,多給我一點時間,那也謝謝兩位,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n109\t9321\t副院長我稍微要低一點謝謝主席請胡市長跟杜董市長兩位好\n19017\t42304\t今天這個召委特別安排就台鐵的票價要上漲跟本席上次諮詢提過的那個準點率的事情來做的一個專案報告那本席的想法上其實上一次因為時間有限台鐵因為公司化但是我覺得台鐵現在要談漲價\n44520\t72293\t他面臨在實務面上我當然知道嘛依照這個就算依照這個政府對票價定定的辦法台鐵只要一次漲足那是相當驚人好那不要一次漲足啦就苦民所苦你不漲價就是政府一定要補貼嘛這個邏輯很簡單跟電一樣嘛最好大家都不要漲可是電不漲就是全民買政府買單就是全民買單那全民買單裡面就要叫\n73914\t95979\t大戶用很多電的人還是要叫小老百姓要幫大戶來買單嘛因為反正全民買單嘛所以大戶用電多他用了人民的納稅錢就多嘛所以漲價的議題事實上很困難每個委員上來一定都說苦民說苦最好不要漲可是不要漲的背後大家都不知道是誰到底誰在付這個錢嘛\n97574\t121404\t那漲價呢一定也要這個也跟台鐵的永續經營有關係嘛台鐵倒了還是全民買單所以這個是一個很兩難的議題啦站在人民代我作為民意代表的立場我當然要站在人民嘛但是站在也一樣站在人民的角度比較高層次來看待這個問題事實上他\n124650\t151121\t他很務實因為你最終還是人民來買單只是沒有直接從人民的口袋拿間接從他的口袋拿好那要漲價所以漲價的題目很務實也該理性來討論但是站在民代的立場本席認為要漲價之前有兩個問題我認為台鐵一定要取得人民的同意的至少說大家甘願一點一個叫安全一個叫服務\n152486\t180957\t那安全跟服務沒有辦法抽象在這裡談什麼叫安全什麼叫服務我們應該有一些指標來談一個企業的安全跟服務特別是像交通事業安全就是信任沒有你對這個交通運輸事業不信任你是不可能去打他的那當然你台鐵沒有辦法因為你是獨佔我不能有第二家鐵路公司所以我只能選擇你所以這時候安全就會變成我們更重要的職責\n182455\t208168\t所以我也知道你們要成立那個叫做安全委員會辦法已經通過了但是好像還沒有成立這個跟委員報告齁因為有需要依循的要點跟一些相關規定要經過董事會那董事會在就是最近這一次已經過了所以我們這個月一定可以讓他開始來運作\n209068\t224621\t那我要強調的意思是說我支持非常支持安全委員會的設立但是我希望這安全委員會他一定要有功效的安全委員會他不是一個三個月開一次會然後大家了備一個你要賦予這個安全委員會有實質怎麼來\n227643\t244868\t作為台鐵公司在安全的問題上面的一個建議甚至適度的怎麼去監督或者怎麼可以讓他在安全的整個SOP的機制裡面他可以發揮角色我認為這個是你在設計這個安全回應裡面很重要的\n246038\t265721\t我說信任是一個很長期性的議題就安全才會有信任而信任又是長期性的問題它毀滅很快它一次一次事故或者什麼它就毀滅掉你長期建立所以要建立這個不容易但你必須要花很你有很強烈的決心跟耐心來處理這個\n267142\t284935\t所以這個是本席對台鐵第一個期待就你的安全委員會盡早趕快成立這裡面的人員千萬不要都邀請一些了備一格大家只是來簽名報到的你要這些人要實質可以協助台鐵在安全的議題上面讓人民來感受\n285996\t301590\t那第二個就服務嘛那服務當然啦民眾是乘客民眾客數高跟客數低我就知道你服務品質好跟不好嘛為什麼因為民眾有一個對比組啦什麼叫對比組高鐵就是你的對比組\n302611\t322751\t現在民眾搭高鐵現在你看高鐵班班客滿連過去那個下午最沒有人的時間也一票難求立法委員也常常買不到票我們也都是一班一班的一直等所以你的對照組就是高鐵所以你的服務品質你沒有達到高鐵那個水準\n323735\t350589\t我覺得民眾會馬上立刻不會有人太多去區別他認為這個都是背後都是政府那為什麼台鐵可以做得到高鐵你做不到或許台鐵公司的同仁會覺得我這樣的指責過於嚴苛因為基本營運條件不同成立的背景也不同董事長你背負的是一個很大的殼雖然這個殼已經把你改名字了從政府把你改成公司但殼還是那個殼\n352148\t370243\t所以你怎麼快速的讓人家改變你覺得這個服務品質跟高鐵很接近差不多你以後要開始調漲價調任何的事情民眾才會覺得舒服一點不然的話他就是透過我們立法院一直罵\n371229\t397287\t那剛剛大家提到今天包括主席安排這個準點率就是一個指標嘛這個就是很明顯譬如說他老是因為高鐵他封閉啦他的軌道都是封閉啦所以他要準點相對容易多嘛對不對這個我們都很清楚但是民眾不會這樣覺得這都是軌道運輸啊啊你這台鐵喔大概就是一定會遲到欸這個刻板印象非常強烈\n398137\t423984\t那我們的整體的同仁董事長你怎麼帶領大家這個整體同仁的從民眾去火車站開始的搭乘經驗我們每一個站務人員他不在他是服務業的他不是公務人員他不是當官的他是服務業所以他的笑容怎麼訓練他的服裝儀容怎麼親切該如何被表達出來這個都是\n426502\t449740\t放在你身上的重責大任嘛服務是什麼除了那些我剛剛講像準點率這種明確的指標他從人民的感受是很直接的因為他會去高鐵站他也會去台鐵站那你怎麼讓台鐵站他的那個感受是很接近我就講永遠高鐵是你的對照組所以你們的面臨的挑戰是很大的\n450595\t474889\t除了你的營運的挑戰你所有的這些周邊你沒有談沒有把服務品質提升讓人民感受好你沒有在安全上得到人民的信任你要談任何的漲價我說實在話主力都會很大所以本席今天沒有太多時間讓你回答因為時間都很有限所以我大概我就提供這個讓你們可以有一點這個參考那\n476909\t501408\t董事長那個挑戰才剛開始不只這個因為你接下來你是公司所以本席也接下來會問你未來幾年我會問你問你什麼問題問你說你的營運目標你的KPI在哪裡你營收的比重你的商品販售你的票物收入你的其他業外的你怎麼去弄這個公司這個都是你的挑戰\n502762\t520323\t所以你可以得到交通部很大的協助但是台鐵本身在營運上面他未來所要面臨的東西其實是很大的那因為大家都在等新的部長包括票價的調漲看起來也要等新的部長上任之後來拍板\n521605\t539944\t那次長應該要退休了所以今天我們來這裡我在這裡強烈質詢也沒什麼意義說實在話那我就祝福次長辛苦了董事長你任重道遠新的部長怎麼給你支持這個支持我希望不是只是預算的挹注\n540925\t564016\t他應該在經營讓台鐵的經營特別在服務安全跟創造更多的業績的可能上面你的工作跟觀光署是一致的那個周副署長有來你跟他是一致的為什麼因為觀光就是你你就是觀光你們兩個其實是一起的只是我們業務上把它分開來觀光人口多大家對台鐵\n565177\t586351\t觀光署推鐵道旅遊,你的鐵道做到你離落落,大家去那邊也要死那這個他也失敗,你也失敗嘛,所以這個是一體的,這是一體的好啦時間已經到了,主席已經站很久了啦,不好意思,他體重那麼重又站那麼久,不好意思那謝謝主席,多給我一點時間,那也謝謝兩位,謝謝\n","txt":"副院長我稍微要低一點謝謝主席請胡市長跟杜董市長兩位好\n今天這個召委特別安排就台鐵的票價要上漲跟本席上次諮詢提過的那個準點率的事情來做的一個專案報告那本席的想法上其實上一次因為時間有限台鐵因為公司化但是我覺得台鐵現在要談漲價\n他面臨在實務面上我當然知道嘛依照這個就算依照這個政府對票價定定的辦法台鐵只要一次漲足那是相當驚人好那不要一次漲足啦就苦民所苦你不漲價就是政府一定要補貼嘛這個邏輯很簡單跟電一樣嘛最好大家都不要漲可是電不漲就是全民買政府買單就是全民買單那全民買單裡面就要叫\n大戶用很多電的人還是要叫小老百姓要幫大戶來買單嘛因為反正全民買單嘛所以大戶用電多他用了人民的納稅錢就多嘛所以漲價的議題事實上很困難每個委員上來一定都說苦民說苦最好不要漲可是不要漲的背後大家都不知道是誰到底誰在付這個錢嘛\n那漲價呢一定也要這個也跟台鐵的永續經營有關係嘛台鐵倒了還是全民買單所以這個是一個很兩難的議題啦站在人民代我作為民意代表的立場我當然要站在人民嘛但是站在也一樣站在人民的角度比較高層次來看待這個問題事實上他\n他很務實因為你最終還是人民來買單只是沒有直接從人民的口袋拿間接從他的口袋拿好那要漲價所以漲價的題目很務實也該理性來討論但是站在民代的立場本席認為要漲價之前有兩個問題我認為台鐵一定要取得人民的同意的至少說大家甘願一點一個叫安全一個叫服務\n那安全跟服務沒有辦法抽象在這裡談什麼叫安全什麼叫服務我們應該有一些指標來談一個企業的安全跟服務特別是像交通事業安全就是信任沒有你對這個交通運輸事業不信任你是不可能去打他的那當然你台鐵沒有辦法因為你是獨佔我不能有第二家鐵路公司所以我只能選擇你所以這時候安全就會變成我們更重要的職責\n所以我也知道你們要成立那個叫做安全委員會辦法已經通過了但是好像還沒有成立這個跟委員報告齁因為有需要依循的要點跟一些相關規定要經過董事會那董事會在就是最近這一次已經過了所以我們這個月一定可以讓他開始來運作\n那我要強調的意思是說我支持非常支持安全委員會的設立但是我希望這安全委員會他一定要有功效的安全委員會他不是一個三個月開一次會然後大家了備一個你要賦予這個安全委員會有實質怎麼來\n作為台鐵公司在安全的問題上面的一個建議甚至適度的怎麼去監督或者怎麼可以讓他在安全的整個SOP的機制裡面他可以發揮角色我認為這個是你在設計這個安全回應裡面很重要的\n我說信任是一個很長期性的議題就安全才會有信任而信任又是長期性的問題它毀滅很快它一次一次事故或者什麼它就毀滅掉你長期建立所以要建立這個不容易但你必須要花很你有很強烈的決心跟耐心來處理這個\n所以這個是本席對台鐵第一個期待就你的安全委員會盡早趕快成立這裡面的人員千萬不要都邀請一些了備一格大家只是來簽名報到的你要這些人要實質可以協助台鐵在安全的議題上面讓人民來感受\n那第二個就服務嘛那服務當然啦民眾是乘客民眾客數高跟客數低我就知道你服務品質好跟不好嘛為什麼因為民眾有一個對比組啦什麼叫對比組高鐵就是你的對比組\n現在民眾搭高鐵現在你看高鐵班班客滿連過去那個下午最沒有人的時間也一票難求立法委員也常常買不到票我們也都是一班一班的一直等所以你的對照組就是高鐵所以你的服務品質你沒有達到高鐵那個水準\n我覺得民眾會馬上立刻不會有人太多去區別他認為這個都是背後都是政府那為什麼台鐵可以做得到高鐵你做不到或許台鐵公司的同仁會覺得我這樣的指責過於嚴苛因為基本營運條件不同成立的背景也不同董事長你背負的是一個很大的殼雖然這個殼已經把你改名字了從政府把你改成公司但殼還是那個殼\n所以你怎麼快速的讓人家改變你覺得這個服務品質跟高鐵很接近差不多你以後要開始調漲價調任何的事情民眾才會覺得舒服一點不然的話他就是透過我們立法院一直罵\n那剛剛大家提到今天包括主席安排這個準點率就是一個指標嘛這個就是很明顯譬如說他老是因為高鐵他封閉啦他的軌道都是封閉啦所以他要準點相對容易多嘛對不對這個我們都很清楚但是民眾不會這樣覺得這都是軌道運輸啊啊你這台鐵喔大概就是一定會遲到欸這個刻板印象非常強烈\n那我們的整體的同仁董事長你怎麼帶領大家這個整體同仁的從民眾去火車站開始的搭乘經驗我們每一個站務人員他不在他是服務業的他不是公務人員他不是當官的他是服務業所以他的笑容怎麼訓練他的服裝儀容怎麼親切該如何被表達出來這個都是\n放在你身上的重責大任嘛服務是什麼除了那些我剛剛講像準點率這種明確的指標他從人民的感受是很直接的因為他會去高鐵站他也會去台鐵站那你怎麼讓台鐵站他的那個感受是很接近我就講永遠高鐵是你的對照組所以你們的面臨的挑戰是很大的\n除了你的營運的挑戰你所有的這些周邊你沒有談沒有把服務品質提升讓人民感受好你沒有在安全上得到人民的信任你要談任何的漲價我說實在話主力都會很大所以本席今天沒有太多時間讓你回答因為時間都很有限所以我大概我就提供這個讓你們可以有一點這個參考那\n董事長那個挑戰才剛開始不只這個因為你接下來你是公司所以本席也接下來會問你未來幾年我會問你問你什麼問題問你說你的營運目標你的KPI在哪裡你營收的比重你的商品販售你的票物收入你的其他業外的你怎麼去弄這個公司這個都是你的挑戰\n所以你可以得到交通部很大的協助但是台鐵本身在營運上面他未來所要面臨的東西其實是很大的那因為大家都在等新的部長包括票價的調漲看起來也要等新的部長上任之後來拍板\n那次長應該要退休了所以今天我們來這裡我在這裡強烈質詢也沒什麼意義說實在話那我就祝福次長辛苦了董事長你任重道遠新的部長怎麼給你支持這個支持我希望不是只是預算的挹注\n他應該在經營讓台鐵的經營特別在服務安全跟創造更多的業績的可能上面你的工作跟觀光署是一致的那個周副署長有來你跟他是一致的為什麼因為觀光就是你你就是觀光你們兩個其實是一起的只是我們業務上把它分開來觀光人口多大家對台鐵\n觀光署推鐵道旅遊,你的鐵道做到你離落落,大家去那邊也要死那這個他也失敗,你也失敗嘛,所以這個是一體的,這是一體的好啦時間已經到了,主席已經站很久了啦,不好意思,他體重那麼重又站那麼久,不好意思那謝謝主席,多給我一點時間,那也謝謝兩位,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.109 --> 00:09.321\n副院長我稍微要低一點謝謝主席請胡市長跟杜董市長兩位好\n\n00:19.017 --> 00:42.304\n今天這個召委特別安排就台鐵的票價要上漲跟本席上次諮詢提過的那個準點率的事情來做的一個專案報告那本席的想法上其實上一次因為時間有限台鐵因為公司化但是我覺得台鐵現在要談漲價\n\n00:44.520 --> 01:12.293\n他面臨在實務面上我當然知道嘛依照這個就算依照這個政府對票價定定的辦法台鐵只要一次漲足那是相當驚人好那不要一次漲足啦就苦民所苦你不漲價就是政府一定要補貼嘛這個邏輯很簡單跟電一樣嘛最好大家都不要漲可是電不漲就是全民買政府買單就是全民買單那全民買單裡面就要叫\n\n01:13.914 --> 01:35.979\n大戶用很多電的人還是要叫小老百姓要幫大戶來買單嘛因為反正全民買單嘛所以大戶用電多他用了人民的納稅錢就多嘛所以漲價的議題事實上很困難每個委員上來一定都說苦民說苦最好不要漲可是不要漲的背後大家都不知道是誰到底誰在付這個錢嘛\n\n01:37.574 --> 02:01.404\n那漲價呢一定也要這個也跟台鐵的永續經營有關係嘛台鐵倒了還是全民買單所以這個是一個很兩難的議題啦站在人民代我作為民意代表的立場我當然要站在人民嘛但是站在也一樣站在人民的角度比較高層次來看待這個問題事實上他\n\n02:04.650 --> 02:31.121\n他很務實因為你最終還是人民來買單只是沒有直接從人民的口袋拿間接從他的口袋拿好那要漲價所以漲價的題目很務實也該理性來討論但是站在民代的立場本席認為要漲價之前有兩個問題我認為台鐵一定要取得人民的同意的至少說大家甘願一點一個叫安全一個叫服務\n\n02:32.486 --> 03:00.957\n那安全跟服務沒有辦法抽象在這裡談什麼叫安全什麼叫服務我們應該有一些指標來談一個企業的安全跟服務特別是像交通事業安全就是信任沒有你對這個交通運輸事業不信任你是不可能去打他的那當然你台鐵沒有辦法因為你是獨佔我不能有第二家鐵路公司所以我只能選擇你所以這時候安全就會變成我們更重要的職責\n\n03:02.455 --> 03:28.168\n所以我也知道你們要成立那個叫做安全委員會辦法已經通過了但是好像還沒有成立這個跟委員報告齁因為有需要依循的要點跟一些相關規定要經過董事會那董事會在就是最近這一次已經過了所以我們這個月一定可以讓他開始來運作\n\n03:29.068 --> 03:44.621\n那我要強調的意思是說我支持非常支持安全委員會的設立但是我希望這安全委員會他一定要有功效的安全委員會他不是一個三個月開一次會然後大家了備一個你要賦予這個安全委員會有實質怎麼來\n\n03:47.643 --> 04:04.868\n作為台鐵公司在安全的問題上面的一個建議甚至適度的怎麼去監督或者怎麼可以讓他在安全的整個SOP的機制裡面他可以發揮角色我認為這個是你在設計這個安全回應裡面很重要的\n\n04:06.038 --> 04:25.721\n我說信任是一個很長期性的議題就安全才會有信任而信任又是長期性的問題它毀滅很快它一次一次事故或者什麼它就毀滅掉你長期建立所以要建立這個不容易但你必須要花很你有很強烈的決心跟耐心來處理這個\n\n04:27.142 --> 04:44.935\n所以這個是本席對台鐵第一個期待就你的安全委員會盡早趕快成立這裡面的人員千萬不要都邀請一些了備一格大家只是來簽名報到的你要這些人要實質可以協助台鐵在安全的議題上面讓人民來感受\n\n04:45.996 --> 05:01.590\n那第二個就服務嘛那服務當然啦民眾是乘客民眾客數高跟客數低我就知道你服務品質好跟不好嘛為什麼因為民眾有一個對比組啦什麼叫對比組高鐵就是你的對比組\n\n05:02.611 --> 05:22.751\n現在民眾搭高鐵現在你看高鐵班班客滿連過去那個下午最沒有人的時間也一票難求立法委員也常常買不到票我們也都是一班一班的一直等所以你的對照組就是高鐵所以你的服務品質你沒有達到高鐵那個水準\n\n05:23.735 --> 05:50.589\n我覺得民眾會馬上立刻不會有人太多去區別他認為這個都是背後都是政府那為什麼台鐵可以做得到高鐵你做不到或許台鐵公司的同仁會覺得我這樣的指責過於嚴苛因為基本營運條件不同成立的背景也不同董事長你背負的是一個很大的殼雖然這個殼已經把你改名字了從政府把你改成公司但殼還是那個殼\n\n05:52.148 --> 06:10.243\n所以你怎麼快速的讓人家改變你覺得這個服務品質跟高鐵很接近差不多你以後要開始調漲價調任何的事情民眾才會覺得舒服一點不然的話他就是透過我們立法院一直罵\n\n06:11.229 --> 06:37.287\n那剛剛大家提到今天包括主席安排這個準點率就是一個指標嘛這個就是很明顯譬如說他老是因為高鐵他封閉啦他的軌道都是封閉啦所以他要準點相對容易多嘛對不對這個我們都很清楚但是民眾不會這樣覺得這都是軌道運輸啊啊你這台鐵喔大概就是一定會遲到欸這個刻板印象非常強烈\n\n06:38.137 --> 07:03.984\n那我們的整體的同仁董事長你怎麼帶領大家這個整體同仁的從民眾去火車站開始的搭乘經驗我們每一個站務人員他不在他是服務業的他不是公務人員他不是當官的他是服務業所以他的笑容怎麼訓練他的服裝儀容怎麼親切該如何被表達出來這個都是\n\n07:06.502 --> 07:29.740\n放在你身上的重責大任嘛服務是什麼除了那些我剛剛講像準點率這種明確的指標他從人民的感受是很直接的因為他會去高鐵站他也會去台鐵站那你怎麼讓台鐵站他的那個感受是很接近我就講永遠高鐵是你的對照組所以你們的面臨的挑戰是很大的\n\n07:30.595 --> 07:54.889\n除了你的營運的挑戰你所有的這些周邊你沒有談沒有把服務品質提升讓人民感受好你沒有在安全上得到人民的信任你要談任何的漲價我說實在話主力都會很大所以本席今天沒有太多時間讓你回答因為時間都很有限所以我大概我就提供這個讓你們可以有一點這個參考那\n\n07:56.909 --> 08:21.408\n董事長那個挑戰才剛開始不只這個因為你接下來你是公司所以本席也接下來會問你未來幾年我會問你問你什麼問題問你說你的營運目標你的KPI在哪裡你營收的比重你的商品販售你的票物收入你的其他業外的你怎麼去弄這個公司這個都是你的挑戰\n\n08:22.762 --> 08:40.323\n所以你可以得到交通部很大的協助但是台鐵本身在營運上面他未來所要面臨的東西其實是很大的那因為大家都在等新的部長包括票價的調漲看起來也要等新的部長上任之後來拍板\n\n08:41.605 --> 08:59.944\n那次長應該要退休了所以今天我們來這裡我在這裡強烈質詢也沒什麼意義說實在話那我就祝福次長辛苦了董事長你任重道遠新的部長怎麼給你支持這個支持我希望不是只是預算的挹注\n\n09:00.925 --> 09:24.016\n他應該在經營讓台鐵的經營特別在服務安全跟創造更多的業績的可能上面你的工作跟觀光署是一致的那個周副署長有來你跟他是一致的為什麼因為觀光就是你你就是觀光你們兩個其實是一起的只是我們業務上把它分開來觀光人口多大家對台鐵\n\n09:25.177 --> 09:46.351\n觀光署推鐵道旅遊,你的鐵道做到你離落落,大家去那邊也要死那這個他也失敗,你也失敗嘛,所以這個是一體的,這是一體的好啦時間已經到了,主席已經站很久了啦,不好意思,他體重那麼重又站那麼久,不好意思那謝謝主席,多給我一點時間,那也謝謝兩位,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.109,"end":9.321,"text":"副院長我稍微要低一點謝謝主席請胡市長跟杜董市長兩位好"},{"start":19.017,"end":42.304,"text":"今天這個召委特別安排就台鐵的票價要上漲跟本席上次諮詢提過的那個準點率的事情來做的一個專案報告那本席的想法上其實上一次因為時間有限台鐵因為公司化但是我覺得台鐵現在要談漲價"},{"start":44.52,"end":72.293,"text":"他面臨在實務面上我當然知道嘛依照這個就算依照這個政府對票價定定的辦法台鐵只要一次漲足那是相當驚人好那不要一次漲足啦就苦民所苦你不漲價就是政府一定要補貼嘛這個邏輯很簡單跟電一樣嘛最好大家都不要漲可是電不漲就是全民買政府買單就是全民買單那全民買單裡面就要叫"},{"start":73.914,"end":95.979,"text":"大戶用很多電的人還是要叫小老百姓要幫大戶來買單嘛因為反正全民買單嘛所以大戶用電多他用了人民的納稅錢就多嘛所以漲價的議題事實上很困難每個委員上來一定都說苦民說苦最好不要漲可是不要漲的背後大家都不知道是誰到底誰在付這個錢嘛"},{"start":97.574,"end":121.404,"text":"那漲價呢一定也要這個也跟台鐵的永續經營有關係嘛台鐵倒了還是全民買單所以這個是一個很兩難的議題啦站在人民代我作為民意代表的立場我當然要站在人民嘛但是站在也一樣站在人民的角度比較高層次來看待這個問題事實上他"},{"start":124.65,"end":151.121,"text":"他很務實因為你最終還是人民來買單只是沒有直接從人民的口袋拿間接從他的口袋拿好那要漲價所以漲價的題目很務實也該理性來討論但是站在民代的立場本席認為要漲價之前有兩個問題我認為台鐵一定要取得人民的同意的至少說大家甘願一點一個叫安全一個叫服務"},{"start":152.486,"end":180.957,"text":"那安全跟服務沒有辦法抽象在這裡談什麼叫安全什麼叫服務我們應該有一些指標來談一個企業的安全跟服務特別是像交通事業安全就是信任沒有你對這個交通運輸事業不信任你是不可能去打他的那當然你台鐵沒有辦法因為你是獨佔我不能有第二家鐵路公司所以我只能選擇你所以這時候安全就會變成我們更重要的職責"},{"start":182.455,"end":208.168,"text":"所以我也知道你們要成立那個叫做安全委員會辦法已經通過了但是好像還沒有成立這個跟委員報告齁因為有需要依循的要點跟一些相關規定要經過董事會那董事會在就是最近這一次已經過了所以我們這個月一定可以讓他開始來運作"},{"start":209.068,"end":224.621,"text":"那我要強調的意思是說我支持非常支持安全委員會的設立但是我希望這安全委員會他一定要有功效的安全委員會他不是一個三個月開一次會然後大家了備一個你要賦予這個安全委員會有實質怎麼來"},{"start":227.643,"end":244.868,"text":"作為台鐵公司在安全的問題上面的一個建議甚至適度的怎麼去監督或者怎麼可以讓他在安全的整個SOP的機制裡面他可以發揮角色我認為這個是你在設計這個安全回應裡面很重要的"},{"start":246.038,"end":265.721,"text":"我說信任是一個很長期性的議題就安全才會有信任而信任又是長期性的問題它毀滅很快它一次一次事故或者什麼它就毀滅掉你長期建立所以要建立這個不容易但你必須要花很你有很強烈的決心跟耐心來處理這個"},{"start":267.142,"end":284.935,"text":"所以這個是本席對台鐵第一個期待就你的安全委員會盡早趕快成立這裡面的人員千萬不要都邀請一些了備一格大家只是來簽名報到的你要這些人要實質可以協助台鐵在安全的議題上面讓人民來感受"},{"start":285.996,"end":301.59,"text":"那第二個就服務嘛那服務當然啦民眾是乘客民眾客數高跟客數低我就知道你服務品質好跟不好嘛為什麼因為民眾有一個對比組啦什麼叫對比組高鐵就是你的對比組"},{"start":302.611,"end":322.751,"text":"現在民眾搭高鐵現在你看高鐵班班客滿連過去那個下午最沒有人的時間也一票難求立法委員也常常買不到票我們也都是一班一班的一直等所以你的對照組就是高鐵所以你的服務品質你沒有達到高鐵那個水準"},{"start":323.735,"end":350.589,"text":"我覺得民眾會馬上立刻不會有人太多去區別他認為這個都是背後都是政府那為什麼台鐵可以做得到高鐵你做不到或許台鐵公司的同仁會覺得我這樣的指責過於嚴苛因為基本營運條件不同成立的背景也不同董事長你背負的是一個很大的殼雖然這個殼已經把你改名字了從政府把你改成公司但殼還是那個殼"},{"start":352.148,"end":370.243,"text":"所以你怎麼快速的讓人家改變你覺得這個服務品質跟高鐵很接近差不多你以後要開始調漲價調任何的事情民眾才會覺得舒服一點不然的話他就是透過我們立法院一直罵"},{"start":371.229,"end":397.287,"text":"那剛剛大家提到今天包括主席安排這個準點率就是一個指標嘛這個就是很明顯譬如說他老是因為高鐵他封閉啦他的軌道都是封閉啦所以他要準點相對容易多嘛對不對這個我們都很清楚但是民眾不會這樣覺得這都是軌道運輸啊啊你這台鐵喔大概就是一定會遲到欸這個刻板印象非常強烈"},{"start":398.137,"end":423.984,"text":"那我們的整體的同仁董事長你怎麼帶領大家這個整體同仁的從民眾去火車站開始的搭乘經驗我們每一個站務人員他不在他是服務業的他不是公務人員他不是當官的他是服務業所以他的笑容怎麼訓練他的服裝儀容怎麼親切該如何被表達出來這個都是"},{"start":426.502,"end":449.74,"text":"放在你身上的重責大任嘛服務是什麼除了那些我剛剛講像準點率這種明確的指標他從人民的感受是很直接的因為他會去高鐵站他也會去台鐵站那你怎麼讓台鐵站他的那個感受是很接近我就講永遠高鐵是你的對照組所以你們的面臨的挑戰是很大的"},{"start":450.595,"end":474.889,"text":"除了你的營運的挑戰你所有的這些周邊你沒有談沒有把服務品質提升讓人民感受好你沒有在安全上得到人民的信任你要談任何的漲價我說實在話主力都會很大所以本席今天沒有太多時間讓你回答因為時間都很有限所以我大概我就提供這個讓你們可以有一點這個參考那"},{"start":476.909,"end":501.408,"text":"董事長那個挑戰才剛開始不只這個因為你接下來你是公司所以本席也接下來會問你未來幾年我會問你問你什麼問題問你說你的營運目標你的KPI在哪裡你營收的比重你的商品販售你的票物收入你的其他業外的你怎麼去弄這個公司這個都是你的挑戰"},{"start":502.762,"end":520.323,"text":"所以你可以得到交通部很大的協助但是台鐵本身在營運上面他未來所要面臨的東西其實是很大的那因為大家都在等新的部長包括票價的調漲看起來也要等新的部長上任之後來拍板"},{"start":521.605,"end":539.944,"text":"那次長應該要退休了所以今天我們來這裡我在這裡強烈質詢也沒什麼意義說實在話那我就祝福次長辛苦了董事長你任重道遠新的部長怎麼給你支持這個支持我希望不是只是預算的挹注"},{"start":540.925,"end":564.016,"text":"他應該在經營讓台鐵的經營特別在服務安全跟創造更多的業績的可能上面你的工作跟觀光署是一致的那個周副署長有來你跟他是一致的為什麼因為觀光就是你你就是觀光你們兩個其實是一起的只是我們業務上把它分開來觀光人口多大家對台鐵"},{"start":565.177,"end":586.351,"text":"觀光署推鐵道旅遊,你的鐵道做到你離落落,大家去那邊也要死那這個他也失敗,你也失敗嘛,所以這個是一體的,這是一體的好啦時間已經到了,主席已經站很久了啦,不好意思,他體重那麼重又站那麼久,不好意思那謝謝主席,多給我一點時間,那也謝謝兩位,謝謝"}]}}}}