{"id":152224,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152224","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6319d5f220c85a68bb9f2444f1b143b402d7c7fd85210785801aa916026d4d42cf599985f5c4a32d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱若華","委員發言時間":"12:26:11 - 12:32:39","影片長度":"00:06:28","會議時間":"2024-05-06T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長王國材「針對台鐵票價上漲暨列車準點率提升作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-06","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-11"},"duration":388,"end_time":"2024-05-06T12:32:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-06T12:26:11+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":501,"blocks":[["邱委員若華：（12時26分）謝謝主席，主席好，請杜董事長。"],["主席：杜董事長請。"],["杜董事長微：委員好。"],["邱委員若華：杜董事長好。我首先想要問，長久以來旅客對臺鐵的信心比較沒有那麼高，董事長，您知道是為什麼嗎？"],["杜董事長微：應該是說我們在安全跟服務方面提供的程度還不夠。"],["邱委員若華：是，長期下來臺鐵確實有行車安全還有服務品質的問題，尤其是班次誤點的情況，這個是主因。對於合理的票價調整研議，本席並不會為了反對而反對，但是安全、服務、準點以及環境務必要提升、改善。王國材部長在今年1月份的時候也提到，臺鐵公司化的時候，包含營運還有安全都要有一定的水準，然後再來談票價的調整。今天也才5月6號，臺鐵公司化至今，營運和安全水準仍待提升，今天談票價要調漲，臺鐵要拿什麼理由讓立院還有民眾來支持這一次的調漲？"],["杜董事長微：是，也就是說，我們在研議，因為現在還沒有提方案出來，我們現在還在研議階段，部長也很明確地表示要到下半年才來討論，在這個階段，我們臺鐵公司會就剛剛講的安全、服務還有形象做配套提出來。"],["邱委員若華：安全、服務還有形象，尤其是班次準點的問題。去年審計部的總決算報告指出，臺鐵對號列車的準點率跟區間車相較下來，部分車次行經特定車站有常態性的延誤，其中自強號列車延誤的次數，前五大車站分別是斗六、員林、宜蘭、嘉義還有松山站，現在還是這5站嗎？有沒有去瞭解？"],["杜董事長微：有，現在這個都已經改善了，現在誤點情形排列在比較前面的是宜蘭線的幾個車站。"],["邱委員若華：原因是什麼？"],["杜董事長微：因為現在宜蘭線我們正在做規模比較大的，包括橋梁的改建還有邊坡的改善，這些都是臨軌工程，臨軌工程對於正在運行的列車來講的話要特別注意，所以我們在那個區段都有慢行或者是特別的一個措施。"],["邱委員若華：董事長您提到這個工程，像其中瑞芳站的誤點率高達93.8%，除了工程的關係還有天災的因素，審計部也指出，臺鐵行車事故及誤點主要肇因是因為設備故障、人為因素，還有司機員的疏失或慣性行為導致，這個部分要怎麼改善？"],["杜董事長微：除了設備以外，尤其是行車運轉操作的同仁，我們會加強教育訓練以及現場實際的考核，其實這些在現在推動的SMS，我們都有納在裡面來做進一步的加強。"],["邱委員若華：教育訓練的部分，現在人員是穩定的嗎？"],["杜董事長微：還算穩定。"],["邱委員若華：我們這邊看到太魯閣事故發生之後，在110年的時候，立法院院會跨黨派的委員也無異議照案通過臺鐵安全還有改革的決議，在同年6月，行政院回復表示，要從三個面向著手，首先是安全再來是安定，包括人員（員工）的安定還有財務的安定，三是轉型，讓臺鐵員工都能安心。臺鐵人力不足還有流失的問題，員工沒有辦法安定，難道對行車安全沒有影響嗎？"],["杜董事長微：有，如果人員的安定不夠的話會有影響，我們現在努力的方向，跟委員報告，這一次我們公司轉型，我們的確有一波優退的人退休，離開工作崗位。這個部分我們現在加速招考從業人員，去年我們就錄用特考人員跟營運人員來填補。我不諱言，我們在總人力的部分沒有很大的狀況，但是進來的同仁必須假以時日，讓他有足夠、充足的技術性，這個部分要加強，我們現在都在加強這個部分，包括教育訓練。"],["邱委員若華：因為臺鐵現在的人力招募和遴選的速度趕不上離退，董事長您能保證今年鐵路的運輸還有安全是沒問題的嗎？"],["杜董事長微：應該沒有問題。"],["邱委員若華：應該沒有問題？"],["杜董事長微：對，應該沒有問題。因為我們現在能掌握的包括我們從業人員進用的人力，當然不是完全都非常的理想，但是我們會用其他的方式來補強。"],["邱委員若華：我這邊最後要提到，監察院審計部調查臺鐵安全改革的執行計畫情況，審核通知事項有揭露臺鐵面臨缺信心、缺人力還有缺法制等三缺，審計部是建請臺鐵儘速改善，本席則是要求儘速改善，臺鐵什麼時候可以提供改善報告？"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告，監察院那個部分是在去年下半年提的，當時的確有剛剛委員提到他們調查裡面的情形，但是我們在去年年底之前，那時候還是局，我們就有替公司做一個改善的規劃，現在都在進程上面。剛剛委員提的，的確有審計部講的這些情形，但是現在其實都有改善，包括人力的數量，包括人力進來以後他的工作特質，這個我們都已經有改善。"],["邱委員若華：是，這個報告再請臺鐵公司提供給本席。"],["杜董事長微：好，OK。"],["邱委員若華：好，謝謝董事長。"],["杜董事長微：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝邱若華委員。下面請王鴻薇委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":108,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-11","speakers":["陳雪生","林國成","林沛祥","李昆澤","黃建賓","廖先翔","魯明哲","徐富癸","蔡其昌","陳素月","林俊憲","黃健豪","何欣純","邱若華","王鴻薇","游顥","林德福","洪孟楷","黃國昌","林月琴","張啓楷","黃珊珊","黃仁","許智傑","陳冠廷"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2024-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1134101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長王國材「針對台鐵票價上漲暨列車準點率提升作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134101_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152224","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152224","tool":"pyannote","id":"152224-pyannote"},"job_id":"SDtEuVzQKEGaPUFq","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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\"委\", \"start\": 371.724, \"end\": 371.744, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,192 --> 00:00:30,276\n謝謝主席主席好請杜董事長杜董事長請委員好好董事長好杜董事長好那首先想要問長久以來旅客對台鐵的信心比較沒有那麼高董事長您知道是為什麼嗎應該是講說我們在安全跟服務做的這個提供的這個程度還不夠\n\n2\n00:00:31,304 --> 00:00:52,890\n是長期下來台鐵確實在行車安全還有服務品質那尤其是班次誤點班次誤點的情況那這個是主因對於合理的票價調整因應本身並不會為了反對而反對但是安全服務還有準點環境的提升改善是是務必的那王國材部長在今年\n\n3\n00:00:53,770 --> 00:01:15,647\n一月份的時候也提到說臺鐵公司化的時候包含營運還有安全一定要都要有一定的水準然後再來談票價的調整那今天也才5月6號臺鐵公司化至今那營運和安全水準仍待提升那今天談票價要調漲臺鐵要拿什麼理由讓利潤還有民眾來支持這一次的調漲\n\n4\n00:01:16,576 --> 00:01:38,863\n是,也就是說我們在這個研議,因為現在還沒有提方案出來我們現在還在研議階段,那部長也很明確的表示說要到下半年才來討論那在這個階段,我們台鐵公司會就剛剛講的安全服務還有我們的這些形象,我們會做配套來提出來\n\n5\n00:01:39,730 --> 00:01:59,092\n是安全服務還有形象那尤其是班次準點的問題那去年審計部的總決算報告指出臺鐵對號列車的準點率相跟區間車相較下來部分車子行進特定的車站有常態性的延誤那其中志強好\n\n6\n00:02:00,333 --> 00:02:18,604\n列車延誤的次數,前五大車站分別是斗六、圓陵、宜蘭、嘉義還有松山站,現在還是這五站嗎?有沒有去了解?有,現在這個都已經改善了,那現在誤點情形,比較排列在前面的是我們宜蘭縣的幾個車站\n\n7\n00:02:22,796 --> 00:02:46,898\n原因是因為現在宜蘭縣我們正在做規模比較大的包括橋樑的改建還有邊坡的改善那這些都是靈軌工程那靈軌工程的話對於正在運行的列車來講的話要特別注意所以我們在那個區段都有慢行或者是特別的一個措施\n\n8\n00:02:47,578 --> 00:03:10,928\n董事長您提到這個工程那像其中的瑞芳站它的霧點率高達93.8%那除了工程的關係還有天災的因素省紀部也指出台鐵行車事故及霧點主要的噪音是因為設備故障人為因素還有司機員的疏失還有關係的行為導致那這個部分要怎麼做改善是\n\n9\n00:03:11,948 --> 00:03:37,204\n這個除了設備以外尤其是我們在操作的在行政運轉操作的同仁這個我們會加強教育訓練以及現場實際的考核來加強其實這些我們在我們現在推動的SMS我們都有納在裡面來做進一步的一個加強是那教育訓練部分現在人員是穩定的嗎現在人員還算穩定\n\n10\n00:03:38,151 --> 00:03:39,672\n臺鐵人力不足還有流失的問題員工沒有辦法安定難道對行車\n\n11\n00:04:07,941 --> 00:04:08,521\n主席\n\n12\n00:04:28,573 --> 00:04:55,164\n那這個部分我們現在是用加速招考從業人員以及去年我們就錄用的特考人員跟營運人員來做填補所以我不會言我們在總人力的部分是沒有很大的狀況但是進來的同仁必須加以時日讓他有這個足夠充足的一個技術性這個部分要加強\n\n13\n00:04:56,024 --> 00:05:21,595\n我們現在都在加強這個部分是因為台鐵現在人力招募和遴選的速度感不上離腿那對於董事長您能保證今年鐵路的運輸還有安全是沒問題的嗎應該沒有問題應該沒有問題對應該沒有問題因為我們現在能掌握的包括我們從業人員禁用的人力當然不是完全都非常的理想但是我們會用其他的方式來補強\n\n14\n00:05:25,218 --> 00:05:47,310\n監察院審計部調查台鐵安全改革的執行計畫情況。審核通知事項有揭露台鐵面臨缺信心、缺能力、還有缺法制的三缺。那審計部是建請台鐵競速改善,本席則是要求競速改善。台鐵什麼時候可以提供改善報告?我跟委員報告,監察院那個是在去年下半年提的。\n\n15\n00:05:48,510 --> 00:06:10,863\n當時的確有這個就是剛剛委員提到他們調查裡面的情形但是我們在去年年底之前我們那時候還是局啦我們就有替公司有做一個改善的一個規劃現在都在進程上面那剛剛委員提的的確這個審計部講的這些情形現在其實都有改善\n\n16\n00:06:11,363 --> 00:06:11,744\n邱若華委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3192\t30276\t謝謝主席主席好請杜董事長杜董事長請委員好好董事長好杜董事長好那首先想要問長久以來旅客對台鐵的信心比較沒有那麼高董事長您知道是為什麼嗎應該是講說我們在安全跟服務做的這個提供的這個程度還不夠\n31304\t52890\t是長期下來 台鐵確實在行車安全還有服務品質那尤其是班次誤點班次誤點的情況那這個是主因對於合理的票價調整因應本身並不會為了反對而反對但是安全服務還有準點環境的提升改善是是務必的那王國材部長在今年\n53770\t75647\t一月份的時候也提到說臺鐵公司化的時候包含營運還有安全一定要都要有一定的水準然後再來談票價的調整那今天也才5月6號臺鐵公司化至今那營運和安全水準仍待提升那今天談票價要調漲臺鐵要拿什麼理由讓利潤還有民眾來支持這一次的調漲\n76576\t98863\t是,也就是說我們在這個研議,因為現在還沒有提方案出來我們現在還在研議階段,那部長也很明確的表示說要到下半年才來討論那在這個階段,我們台鐵公司會就剛剛講的安全服務還有我們的這些形象,我們會做配套來提出來\n99730\t119092\t是安全服務還有形象那尤其是班次準點的問題那去年審計部的總決算報告指出臺鐵對號列車的準點率相跟區間車相較下來部分車子行進特定的車站有常態性的延誤那其中志強好\n120333\t138604\t列車延誤的次數,前五大車站分別是斗六、圓陵、宜蘭、嘉義還有松山站,現在還是這五站嗎?有沒有去了解?有,現在這個都已經改善了,那現在誤點情形,比較排列在前面的是我們宜蘭縣的幾個車站\n142796\t166898\t原因是因為現在宜蘭縣我們正在做規模比較大的包括橋樑的改建還有邊坡的改善那這些都是靈軌工程那靈軌工程的話對於正在運行的列車來講的話要特別注意所以我們在那個區段都有慢行或者是特別的一個措施\n167578\t190928\t董事長您提到這個工程那像其中的瑞芳站它的霧點率高達93.8%那除了工程的關係還有天災的因素省紀部也指出台鐵行車事故及霧點主要的噪音是因為設備故障人為因素還有司機員的疏失還有關係的行為導致那這個部分要怎麼做改善是\n191948\t217204\t這個除了設備以外尤其是我們在操作的在行政運轉操作的同仁這個我們會加強教育訓練以及現場實際的考核來加強其實這些我們在我們現在推動的SMS我們都有納在裡面來做進一步的一個加強是那教育訓練部分現在人員是穩定的嗎現在人員還算穩定\n218151\t219672\t臺鐵人力不足還有流失的問題員工沒有辦法安定難道對行車\n247941\t248521\t主席\n268573\t295164\t那這個部分我們現在是用加速招考從業人員以及去年我們就錄用的特考人員跟營運人員來做填補所以我不會言我們在總人力的部分是沒有很大的狀況但是進來的同仁必須加以時日讓他有這個足夠充足的一個技術性這個部分要加強\n296024\t321595\t我們現在都在加強這個部分是因為台鐵現在人力招募和遴選的速度感不上離腿那對於董事長您能保證今年鐵路的運輸還有安全是沒問題的嗎應該沒有問題應該沒有問題對應該沒有問題因為我們現在能掌握的包括我們從業人員禁用的人力當然不是完全都非常的理想但是我們會用其他的方式來補強\n325218\t347310\t監察院審計部調查台鐵安全改革的執行計畫情況。審核通知事項有揭露台鐵面臨缺信心、缺能力、還有缺法制的三缺。那審計部是建請台鐵競速改善,本席則是要求競速改善。台鐵什麼時候可以提供改善報告?我跟委員報告,監察院那個是在去年下半年提的。\n348510\t370863\t當時的確有這個就是剛剛委員提到他們調查裡面的情形但是我們在去年年底之前我們那時候還是局啦我們就有替公司有做一個改善的一個規劃現在都在進程上面那剛剛委員提的的確這個審計部講的這些情形現在其實都有改善\n371363\t371744\t邱若華委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席主席好請杜董事長杜董事長請委員好好董事長好杜董事長好那首先想要問長久以來旅客對台鐵的信心比較沒有那麼高董事長您知道是為什麼嗎應該是講說我們在安全跟服務做的這個提供的這個程度還不夠\n是長期下來 台鐵確實在行車安全還有服務品質那尤其是班次誤點班次誤點的情況那這個是主因對於合理的票價調整因應本身並不會為了反對而反對但是安全服務還有準點環境的提升改善是是務必的那王國材部長在今年\n一月份的時候也提到說臺鐵公司化的時候包含營運還有安全一定要都要有一定的水準然後再來談票價的調整那今天也才5月6號臺鐵公司化至今那營運和安全水準仍待提升那今天談票價要調漲臺鐵要拿什麼理由讓利潤還有民眾來支持這一次的調漲\n是,也就是說我們在這個研議,因為現在還沒有提方案出來我們現在還在研議階段,那部長也很明確的表示說要到下半年才來討論那在這個階段,我們台鐵公司會就剛剛講的安全服務還有我們的這些形象,我們會做配套來提出來\n是安全服務還有形象那尤其是班次準點的問題那去年審計部的總決算報告指出臺鐵對號列車的準點率相跟區間車相較下來部分車子行進特定的車站有常態性的延誤那其中志強好\n列車延誤的次數,前五大車站分別是斗六、圓陵、宜蘭、嘉義還有松山站,現在還是這五站嗎?有沒有去了解?有,現在這個都已經改善了,那現在誤點情形,比較排列在前面的是我們宜蘭縣的幾個車站\n原因是因為現在宜蘭縣我們正在做規模比較大的包括橋樑的改建還有邊坡的改善那這些都是靈軌工程那靈軌工程的話對於正在運行的列車來講的話要特別注意所以我們在那個區段都有慢行或者是特別的一個措施\n董事長您提到這個工程那像其中的瑞芳站它的霧點率高達93.8%那除了工程的關係還有天災的因素省紀部也指出台鐵行車事故及霧點主要的噪音是因為設備故障人為因素還有司機員的疏失還有關係的行為導致那這個部分要怎麼做改善是\n這個除了設備以外尤其是我們在操作的在行政運轉操作的同仁這個我們會加強教育訓練以及現場實際的考核來加強其實這些我們在我們現在推動的SMS我們都有納在裡面來做進一步的一個加強是那教育訓練部分現在人員是穩定的嗎現在人員還算穩定\n臺鐵人力不足還有流失的問題員工沒有辦法安定難道對行車\n主席\n那這個部分我們現在是用加速招考從業人員以及去年我們就錄用的特考人員跟營運人員來做填補所以我不會言我們在總人力的部分是沒有很大的狀況但是進來的同仁必須加以時日讓他有這個足夠充足的一個技術性這個部分要加強\n我們現在都在加強這個部分是因為台鐵現在人力招募和遴選的速度感不上離腿那對於董事長您能保證今年鐵路的運輸還有安全是沒問題的嗎應該沒有問題應該沒有問題對應該沒有問題因為我們現在能掌握的包括我們從業人員禁用的人力當然不是完全都非常的理想但是我們會用其他的方式來補強\n監察院審計部調查台鐵安全改革的執行計畫情況。審核通知事項有揭露台鐵面臨缺信心、缺能力、還有缺法制的三缺。那審計部是建請台鐵競速改善,本席則是要求競速改善。台鐵什麼時候可以提供改善報告?我跟委員報告,監察院那個是在去年下半年提的。\n當時的確有這個就是剛剛委員提到他們調查裡面的情形但是我們在去年年底之前我們那時候還是局啦我們就有替公司有做一個改善的一個規劃現在都在進程上面那剛剛委員提的的確這個審計部講的這些情形現在其實都有改善\n邱若華委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.192 --> 00:30.276\n謝謝主席主席好請杜董事長杜董事長請委員好好董事長好杜董事長好那首先想要問長久以來旅客對台鐵的信心比較沒有那麼高董事長您知道是為什麼嗎應該是講說我們在安全跟服務做的這個提供的這個程度還不夠\n\n00:31.304 --> 00:52.890\n是長期下來台鐵確實在行車安全還有服務品質那尤其是班次誤點班次誤點的情況那這個是主因對於合理的票價調整因應本身並不會為了反對而反對但是安全服務還有準點環境的提升改善是是務必的那王國材部長在今年\n\n00:53.770 --> 01:15.647\n一月份的時候也提到說臺鐵公司化的時候包含營運還有安全一定要都要有一定的水準然後再來談票價的調整那今天也才5月6號臺鐵公司化至今那營運和安全水準仍待提升那今天談票價要調漲臺鐵要拿什麼理由讓利潤還有民眾來支持這一次的調漲\n\n01:16.576 --> 01:38.863\n是,也就是說我們在這個研議,因為現在還沒有提方案出來我們現在還在研議階段,那部長也很明確的表示說要到下半年才來討論那在這個階段,我們台鐵公司會就剛剛講的安全服務還有我們的這些形象,我們會做配套來提出來\n\n01:39.730 --> 01:59.092\n是安全服務還有形象那尤其是班次準點的問題那去年審計部的總決算報告指出臺鐵對號列車的準點率相跟區間車相較下來部分車子行進特定的車站有常態性的延誤那其中志強好\n\n02:00.333 --> 02:18.604\n列車延誤的次數,前五大車站分別是斗六、圓陵、宜蘭、嘉義還有松山站,現在還是這五站嗎?有沒有去了解?有,現在這個都已經改善了,那現在誤點情形,比較排列在前面的是我們宜蘭縣的幾個車站\n\n02:22.796 --> 02:46.898\n原因是因為現在宜蘭縣我們正在做規模比較大的包括橋樑的改建還有邊坡的改善那這些都是靈軌工程那靈軌工程的話對於正在運行的列車來講的話要特別注意所以我們在那個區段都有慢行或者是特別的一個措施\n\n02:47.578 --> 03:10.928\n董事長您提到這個工程那像其中的瑞芳站它的霧點率高達93.8%那除了工程的關係還有天災的因素省紀部也指出台鐵行車事故及霧點主要的噪音是因為設備故障人為因素還有司機員的疏失還有關係的行為導致那這個部分要怎麼做改善是\n\n03:11.948 --> 03:37.204\n這個除了設備以外尤其是我們在操作的在行政運轉操作的同仁這個我們會加強教育訓練以及現場實際的考核來加強其實這些我們在我們現在推動的SMS我們都有納在裡面來做進一步的一個加強是那教育訓練部分現在人員是穩定的嗎現在人員還算穩定\n\n03:38.151 --> 03:39.672\n臺鐵人力不足還有流失的問題員工沒有辦法安定難道對行車\n\n04:07.941 --> 04:08.521\n主席\n\n04:28.573 --> 04:55.164\n那這個部分我們現在是用加速招考從業人員以及去年我們就錄用的特考人員跟營運人員來做填補所以我不會言我們在總人力的部分是沒有很大的狀況但是進來的同仁必須加以時日讓他有這個足夠充足的一個技術性這個部分要加強\n\n04:56.024 --> 05:21.595\n我們現在都在加強這個部分是因為台鐵現在人力招募和遴選的速度感不上離腿那對於董事長您能保證今年鐵路的運輸還有安全是沒問題的嗎應該沒有問題應該沒有問題對應該沒有問題因為我們現在能掌握的包括我們從業人員禁用的人力當然不是完全都非常的理想但是我們會用其他的方式來補強\n\n05:25.218 --> 05:47.310\n監察院審計部調查台鐵安全改革的執行計畫情況。審核通知事項有揭露台鐵面臨缺信心、缺能力、還有缺法制的三缺。那審計部是建請台鐵競速改善,本席則是要求競速改善。台鐵什麼時候可以提供改善報告?我跟委員報告,監察院那個是在去年下半年提的。\n\n05:48.510 --> 06:10.863\n當時的確有這個就是剛剛委員提到他們調查裡面的情形但是我們在去年年底之前我們那時候還是局啦我們就有替公司有做一個改善的一個規劃現在都在進程上面那剛剛委員提的的確這個審計部講的這些情形現在其實都有改善\n\n06:11.363 --> 06:11.744\n邱若華委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.192,"end":30.276,"text":"謝謝主席主席好請杜董事長杜董事長請委員好好董事長好杜董事長好那首先想要問長久以來旅客對台鐵的信心比較沒有那麼高董事長您知道是為什麼嗎應該是講說我們在安全跟服務做的這個提供的這個程度還不夠"},{"start":31.304,"end":52.89,"text":"是長期下來 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