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12:59:07","影片長度":"00:07:06","會議時間":"2024-05-06T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長王國材「針對台鐵票價上漲暨列車準點率提升作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-06","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-11"},"duration":426,"end_time":"2024-05-06T12:59:07+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-06T12:52:01+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":590,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時52分）謝謝主席，麻煩請胡次長。"],["主席：胡次長請。"],["胡次長湘麟：委員您好。"],["洪委員孟楷：胡次長，今天應該很多委員都關心臺鐵漲價，本席也關心，尤其是民生的議題。另外看到17年沒有漲價的國道客運，交通部已經先核定了，是允許漲價，有補助三分之二的漲幅。所以請教，到目前為止有沒有收到相關國道業者的詢問或是方案？"],["胡次長湘麟：我請公路總局……"],["洪委員孟楷：簡單回復。"],["陳局長文瑞：是，跟委員報告，因為交通部是5月1日才核定，所以國道客運如果有要調整票價的話，它還要提報到各區監理所。不過我們基本上在短途的部分，TPASS已經有相關補助；中長途部分的話……"],["洪委員孟楷：中長途非TPASS月票的乘客，最高會補助三分之二嘛！"],["陳局長文瑞：三分之二，是。"],["洪委員孟楷：那我們預計匡列多少數額來補助？"],["陳局長文瑞：這個部分，基本上預估的運量，在我們公運的預算裡面足夠支應。"],["洪委員孟楷：有多少？"],["陳局長文瑞：還是要看它的運量，就是說……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有錯，運量，但是你會說足夠代表你們一定有算過啊！"],["陳局長文瑞：是。因為今年他們提出來的，預估可能就是從5月之後，大概整個幾億元預算，我們大概有估算出來。"],["洪委員孟楷：幾億元？"],["陳局長文瑞：這個是不是我們再……"],["洪委員孟楷：這是機密嗎？現在民進黨政府主政之下，什麼都機密，這個不能問，是不是？"],["陳局長文瑞：不是，因為它其實跟相關的運量是有關係的。"],["洪委員孟楷：當然跟相關運量有關係，這也是本席今天討論的。","次長，有講到國道客運調整方案的話，北高票價最高是漲36塊，而今天討論到臺鐵29年凍漲告終，北高票價恐漲300塊，差了十倍。本席覺得，臺鐵也好，國道客運也好，這兩個都是非常重要的大眾運輸。為什麼？因為對於普羅大眾一般的民生來講，這兩個大眾運輸最多人使用，而且可能不分男女老少，收入比較低一點點、高一點的都會利用，對不對？現在國道客運最高漲36塊，可是臺鐵突然間跟我們講要漲300塊，也沒有任何補助措施，或者沒有任何的評估，這樣會不會造成民生的衝擊？國道客運可以編列幾億元來協助，抑制票價緩漲，本席沒有說不漲，如果油價等等上漲，你真的撐不下去，你該調整，不能苛刻或是不能壓榨國道客運嘛！不能壓榨駕駛員，本席同意啊！一樣的道理，為什麼臺鐵你就可以放任300塊、500塊這樣去喊？次長簡單說明一下，好不好？"],["胡次長湘麟：跟委員報告，媒體所報導、講出來的這些票價方案，並不是現在在討論中的這些方案，這個過去相關的資料，媒體取得……，我也必須承認，這是一部分在臺鐵公司試算的過程，但絕對不是現在在討論的方案。"],["洪委員孟楷：試算過程是提出報酬率3%、4%、5%三個方案嘛！所以媒體才會說，如果以5%的方案來比，北高的自強號票價會漲到快300元，所以這還是有所本啊！"],["胡次長湘麟：不是……"],["洪委員孟楷：你沒有最終定案，本席同意。你們自己內部的評估一定是有所本，而最終會落在什麼票價，不得而知，對不對？"],["胡次長湘麟：這個試算我們在討論過程之中，就是有討論到這些問題，所以這件事情在討論，我們部裡頭要求臺鐵公司一定要充分地考慮它自己的營運條件、市場狀況。以剛剛的臺北、高雄為例，它就沒有考慮到我們經常用的，票價是遞遠遞減，距離越長的話……，這個是沒有考慮過的。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有考慮？"],["胡次長湘麟：所以我說這些是試算過程之中，某一些假設算出來的。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，這樣子能不能比較直接的假設，未來最終的方案北高調漲絕對會低於300元？"],["胡次長湘麟：我們還沒有收到數字，我現在不敢跟委員報告。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以有可能會高於300元囉？不是，你剛剛講的……本席接受你的解釋啊！第一，5%的推估，你說這個還沒有經過試算，又說它沒有考慮到越遠遞減，代表越遠、距離越拉長……北高算是最長的距離，相對來講要遞減嘛！所以說那個票價應該要低，不會是像現在媒體推估的5%，然後要300塊。是不是未來最終的方案，在這一波裡面不會高於300元？"],["胡次長湘麟：我只能跟委員報告，原來試算的過程沒有考慮這個，考慮後一定會比那個低。"],["洪委員孟楷：一定會比較低，但是低多少不確定？"],["胡次長湘麟：是不是低於300……"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候會出來？"],["胡次長湘麟：這個現在還不……我們下半年會提到交通部來討論。"],["洪委員孟楷：現任的部長把燙手山芋留給520，反正就是丟給新任部長來決定？沒有打算要幫新部長拆彈的意思？"],["胡次長湘麟：我們現在預定的期程是，下半年請臺鐵公司提出這個……"],["洪委員孟楷：下半年請臺鐵提出來。最後，次長，既然國道客運，我們可以用公務預算做一些補助，讓它漲的票價不至於太多，你說北高最多漲36，吸收三分之二。至於臺鐵相關部分，我覺得就是羊毛出在羊身上，對於一般的普羅大眾來講，對票價的反應其實是很敏感的，而且票價是民生相關的消費。大家都講萬物皆漲，唯有薪水不漲，在這一波的漲價裡面，是不是也要考慮到，如果說我們有些相關公務預算能夠支持的話，也應該要適時地支持。次長，這一點可以承諾嗎？"],["胡次長湘麟：這部分我們會併到將來的這個方案裡頭一併思考。"],["洪委員孟楷：不要讓國人覺得，一樣是大眾運輸工具，北高國道客運只有漲36，臺鐵一次要漲300，十倍的價差，我覺得這會讓國人覺得是大小眼，好不好？謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員發言。","下一位請黃國昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":108,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-11","speakers":["陳雪生","林國成","林沛祥","李昆澤","黃建賓","廖先翔","魯明哲","徐富癸","蔡其昌","陳素月","林俊憲","黃健豪","何欣純","邱若華","王鴻薇","游顥","林德福","洪孟楷","黃國昌","林月琴","張啓楷","黃珊珊","黃仁","許智傑","陳冠廷"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2024-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1134101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長王國材「針對台鐵票價上漲暨列車準點率提升作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134101_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152228","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152228","tool":"pyannote","id":"152228-pyannote"},"job_id":"ZmHCqNUGKGveqRsW","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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{\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 284.699, \"end\": 284.899, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 284.899, \"end\": 285.52, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 285.52, \"end\": 285.72, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 285.72, \"end\": 286.18, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 286.18, \"end\": 286.54, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 286.54, \"end\": 286.8, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 286.8, \"end\": 286.94, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 286.94, \"end\": 287.541, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"某\", \"start\": 287.541, \"end\": 287.721, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 287.721, \"end\": 287.801, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 287.801, \"end\": 288.001, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 288.001, \"end\": 288.261, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", 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\"好\", \"start\": 423.333, \"end\": 423.653, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 423.653, \"end\": 424.334, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"洪\", \"start\": 424.334, \"end\": 424.514, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"孟\", \"start\": 424.514, \"end\": 424.794, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"楷\", \"start\": 424.794, \"end\": 425.135, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 425.135, \"end\": 425.155, \"score\": 0.085}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,932 --> 00:00:03,678\n好主席謝謝麻煩請胡次長胡次長請\n\n2\n00:00:14,426 --> 00:00:37,479\n今天應該很多的委員都關心所謂的台鐵漲價本席也關心尤其是民生的議題那另外有看到說17年沒有漲價的國道客運交通部是已經先核定了是允許漲價那有補助所謂的三分之二的一個漲幅所以請教到目前為止有沒有收到相關國道客運業者的詢問或是方案\n\n3\n00:00:38,208 --> 00:01:04,802\n那個我請簡單回復是是跟委員報告目前因為剛交通部是5月1號才核定所以我們就是會國道科學院如果說有要這個調整票價的話他還要提報到我們各區監理所那不過我們基本上就是說已經有這個短途的部分在TPS的部分已經有相關的一個補助了那這個中長途的部分的話那個\n\n4\n00:01:05,722 --> 00:01:31,108\n中長途非T-pass月票的乘客最高會補助三分之二嗎?那我們匡列了多少元額來去做補助?預計這個部分的話就是說基本上就是說我們預估的這個運量的話在我們的這個公運的預算裡面是足夠可以來支應的的多少啊?還是要看他的運量沒有錯運量但是你會說足夠那代表說你們一定有算過啊是啊\n\n5\n00:01:32,968 --> 00:01:54,097\n就是因為這個今年的大概就是說他們提出來的就是預估就是可能就是從5月5月之後的那大概就是說整個的一個就是幾億元的預算我們大概有估算出來啦幾億元這是機密嗎現在民進黨政府主政之下什麼都機密這個不能問是不是\n\n6\n00:01:55,298 --> 00:02:14,831\n就是因為他其實跟相關的運量是有關係的是當然跟相關運量有關係這也是本席今天在討論來次長因為有講到說我們如果說國道客運調整方案的話北高票價最高是漲36塊那今天討論到台鐵29年動漲告終北高票價恐漲300塊差了10倍\n\n7\n00:02:22,111 --> 00:02:49,482\n本席也覺得台鐵也好國道客運也好這兩個都是非常重要的大眾運輸為什麼因為對於普羅大眾一般的民生來講這兩個大眾運輸是最多人使用而且可能是不分男女老少或不分收入比較低一點點收入比較高一點點都會利用對不對那你現在一個國道客運最高36塊可是台鐵突然間跟我們講說要漲300塊\n\n8\n00:02:51,616 --> 00:02:59,487\n那我們也沒有任何的補助措施或者是沒有任何的評估那這樣會不會造成民生的衝擊\n\n9\n00:03:01,797 --> 00:03:25,823\n國道客運可以編列幾億元來去協助不管是抑制這個票價還漲本席沒有說不漲如果說真的你油價等等上漲你真的撐不下去你該調整不能苛刻或是不能壓榨我們的國道客運嘛不能壓榨駕駛員本席同意啊那但一樣的道理啊為什麼你台鐵你就可以放任300塊500塊這樣去喊\n\n10\n00:03:29,066 --> 00:03:50,842\n市長簡單說明一下好不好跟委員報告媒體所報導的那些長出來的這些票價方案並不是現在在討論中的這些方案這個在過去相關的資料媒體取得我也必須承認這是一部分在台鐵公司試算過程但是絕對不是現在在討論的方案試算過程是提出報酬率3%、4%、5%三個方案嘛\n\n11\n00:03:52,563 --> 00:03:57,551\n所以媒體才會講說如果說以5%的方案來比的話北高的志強票志強號的票價會漲到快300元嗎\n\n12\n00:04:01,041 --> 00:04:01,741\n這個事順我們在討論過程之中就是有討論到這些問題所以\n\n13\n00:04:22,908 --> 00:04:49,542\n這件事情在討論我們部裡頭要求臺鐵公司一定要充分的去考慮一些其實他的自己的營運條件市場的狀況以剛剛臺北高雄為例他就沒有考慮到我們經常用的所謂這個這個票價是遞遠遞減距離越長這個是沒有考慮過的所以我說這些是試算過程之中某一些假設算出來那這樣子能不能\n\n14\n00:04:50,242 --> 00:05:09,765\n比較直接假設就是未來最終的方案絕對調漲北高會低於300元現在我們還沒有收到數字我現在不敢跟委員報告所以你有可能會高於300元喔不是你剛剛講的你剛剛本席接受你的解釋啊第一5%的推估\n\n15\n00:05:10,785 --> 00:05:31,177\n你說這個還沒有經過試算又說他沒有考慮到說越遠地減所以代表說越遠距離越拉長北高算是最長距離了嘛相對來講要地減嘛所以說那個票價應該要低嘛不會是像現在媒體推估的5%然後要300塊啊所以是不是未來最終方案在這一波裡面不會高於300元\n\n16\n00:05:32,093 --> 00:05:56,990\n我只能跟委員報告,原來試算的過程是沒有考慮,那考慮這個一定會比那個低一定會比較低,但低多少,不確定,什麼時候會出來這個現在還不,在我們下半年會提到交通部來考慮現任的部長探索3億就留給520,反正就丟給新任部長來決定沒有打算要幫新部長拆彈的意思\n\n17\n00:05:57,992 --> 00:06:19,890\n我們現在預定期程是下半年請台鐵公司提出來的這個報告下半年請台鐵提出來那最後啦次長既然國道客運我們可以用公務預算也去做一些補助讓他的漲的票價不至於太多你說北高最多漲36吸收三分之二那台鐵相關部分我覺得羊毛出在羊身上\n\n18\n00:06:20,871 --> 00:06:39,878\n對於一般的普羅大眾來講票價的反應其實是很敏感而且票價連隨著就是民生的相關的一個消費大家都講萬物皆漲唯有薪水不漲在這一波的漲價裡面是不是也要考慮到如果說我們能夠有些相關公務預算能夠支持的話也應該要適時的支持市長這點可以承諾嗎\n\n19\n00:06:41,731 --> 00:07:05,155\n這部分我們變到原來的將來的這個方案裡頭一邊來思考是不要讓國人覺得一樣一樣是這個大眾運輸工具北高國道客運只有漲36台鐵一次要漲300十倍的價差我覺得這會讓國人覺得是說這是大小眼好不好謝謝好謝謝洪孟楷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1932\t3678\t好 主席謝謝 麻煩請胡次長胡次長請\n14426\t37479\t今天應該很多的委員都關心所謂的台鐵漲價本席也關心尤其是民生的議題那另外有看到說17年沒有漲價的國道客運交通部是已經先核定了是允許漲價那有補助所謂的三分之二的一個漲幅所以請教到目前為止有沒有收到相關國道客運業者的詢問或是方案\n38208\t64802\t那個我請 簡單回復是是跟委員報告目前因為剛交通部是5月1號才核定所以我們就是會國道科學院如果說有要這個調整票價的話他還要提報到我們各區監理所那不過我們基本上就是說已經有這個短途的部分在TPS的部分已經有相關的一個補助了那這個中長途的部分的話那個\n65722\t91108\t中長途非T-pass月票的乘客最高會補助三分之二嗎?那我們匡列了多少元額來去做補助?預計這個部分的話就是說基本上就是說我們預估的這個運量的話在我們的這個公運的預算裡面是足夠可以來支應的的多少啊?還是要看他的運量沒有錯運量但是你會說足夠那代表說你們一定有算過啊是啊\n92968\t114097\t就是因為這個今年的大概就是說他們提出來的就是預估就是可能就是從5月5月之後的那大概就是說整個的一個就是幾億元的預算我們大概有估算出來啦幾億元這是機密嗎現在民進黨政府主政之下什麼都機密這個不能問是不是\n115298\t134831\t就是因為他其實跟相關的運量是有關係的是當然跟相關運量有關係這也是本席今天在討論來 次長因為有講到說我們如果說國道客運調整方案的話北高票價最高是漲36塊那今天討論到台鐵29年動漲告終北高票價恐漲300塊差了10倍\n142111\t169482\t本席也覺得 台鐵也好 國道客運也好這兩個都是非常重要的大眾運輸為什麼 因為對於普羅大眾一般的民生來講這兩個大眾運輸是最多人使用而且可能是不分男女老少或不分收入比較低一點點收入比較高一點點都會利用 對不對那你現在一個國道客運最高36塊可是台鐵突然間跟我們講說要漲300塊\n171616\t179487\t那我們也沒有任何的補助措施或者是沒有任何的評估那這樣會不會造成民生的衝擊\n181797\t205823\t國道客運可以編列幾億元來去協助不管是抑制這個票價還漲本席沒有說不漲如果說真的你油價等等上漲你真的撐不下去你該調整不能苛刻或是不能壓榨我們的國道客運嘛不能壓榨駕駛員本席同意啊那但一樣的道理啊為什麼你台鐵你就可以放任300塊500塊這樣去喊\n209066\t230842\t市長簡單說明一下好不好跟委員報告媒體所報導的那些長出來的這些票價方案並不是現在在討論中的這些方案這個在過去相關的資料媒體取得我也必須承認這是一部分在台鐵公司試算過程但是絕對不是現在在討論的方案試算過程是提出報酬率3%、4%、5%三個方案嘛\n232563\t237551\t所以媒體才會講說如果說以5%的方案來比的話北高的志強票志強號的票價會漲到快300元嗎\n241041\t241741\t這個事順我們在討論過程之中就是有討論到這些問題所以\n262908\t289542\t這件事情在討論我們部裡頭要求臺鐵公司一定要充分的去考慮一些其實他的自己的營運條件市場的狀況以剛剛臺北高雄為例他就沒有考慮到我們經常用的所謂這個這個票價是遞遠遞減距離越長這個是沒有考慮過的所以我說這些是試算過程之中某一些假設算出來那這樣子能不能\n290242\t309765\t比較直接假設就是未來最終的方案絕對調漲北高會低於300元現在我們還沒有收到數字我現在不敢跟委員報告所以你有可能會高於300元喔不是你剛剛講的你剛剛本席接受你的解釋啊第一5%的推估\n310785\t331177\t你說這個還沒有經過試算又說他沒有考慮到說越遠地減所以代表說越遠距離越拉長北高算是最長距離了嘛相對來講要地減嘛所以說那個票價應該要低嘛不會是像現在媒體推估的5%然後要300塊啊所以是不是未來最終方案在這一波裡面不會高於300元\n332093\t356990\t我只能跟委員報告,原來試算的過程是沒有考慮,那考慮這個一定會比那個低一定會比較低,但低多少,不確定,什麼時候會出來這個現在還不,在我們下半年會提到交通部來考慮現任的部長探索3億就留給520,反正就丟給新任部長來決定沒有打算要幫新部長拆彈的意思\n357992\t379890\t我們現在預定期程是下半年請台鐵公司提出來的這個報告下半年請台鐵提出來那最後啦 次長既然國道客運我們可以用公務預算也去做一些補助讓他的漲的票價不至於太多你說北高最多漲36吸收三分之二那台鐵相關部分我覺得羊毛出在羊身上\n380871\t399878\t對於一般的普羅大眾來講票價的反應其實是很敏感而且票價連隨著就是民生的相關的一個消費大家都講萬物皆漲唯有薪水不漲在這一波的漲價裡面是不是也要考慮到如果說我們能夠有些相關公務預算能夠支持的話也應該要適時的支持市長這點可以承諾嗎\n401731\t425155\t這部分我們變到原來的將來的這個方案裡頭一邊來思考是不要讓國人覺得一樣一樣是這個大眾運輸工具北高國道客運只有漲36台鐵一次要漲300十倍的價差我覺得這會讓國人覺得是說這是大小眼好不好謝謝好謝謝洪孟楷委員\n","txt":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請胡次長胡次長請\n今天應該很多的委員都關心所謂的台鐵漲價本席也關心尤其是民生的議題那另外有看到說17年沒有漲價的國道客運交通部是已經先核定了是允許漲價那有補助所謂的三分之二的一個漲幅所以請教到目前為止有沒有收到相關國道客運業者的詢問或是方案\n那個我請 簡單回復是是跟委員報告目前因為剛交通部是5月1號才核定所以我們就是會國道科學院如果說有要這個調整票價的話他還要提報到我們各區監理所那不過我們基本上就是說已經有這個短途的部分在TPS的部分已經有相關的一個補助了那這個中長途的部分的話那個\n中長途非T-pass月票的乘客最高會補助三分之二嗎?那我們匡列了多少元額來去做補助?預計這個部分的話就是說基本上就是說我們預估的這個運量的話在我們的這個公運的預算裡面是足夠可以來支應的的多少啊?還是要看他的運量沒有錯運量但是你會說足夠那代表說你們一定有算過啊是啊\n就是因為這個今年的大概就是說他們提出來的就是預估就是可能就是從5月5月之後的那大概就是說整個的一個就是幾億元的預算我們大概有估算出來啦幾億元這是機密嗎現在民進黨政府主政之下什麼都機密這個不能問是不是\n就是因為他其實跟相關的運量是有關係的是當然跟相關運量有關係這也是本席今天在討論來 次長因為有講到說我們如果說國道客運調整方案的話北高票價最高是漲36塊那今天討論到台鐵29年動漲告終北高票價恐漲300塊差了10倍\n本席也覺得 台鐵也好 國道客運也好這兩個都是非常重要的大眾運輸為什麼 因為對於普羅大眾一般的民生來講這兩個大眾運輸是最多人使用而且可能是不分男女老少或不分收入比較低一點點收入比較高一點點都會利用 對不對那你現在一個國道客運最高36塊可是台鐵突然間跟我們講說要漲300塊\n那我們也沒有任何的補助措施或者是沒有任何的評估那這樣會不會造成民生的衝擊\n國道客運可以編列幾億元來去協助不管是抑制這個票價還漲本席沒有說不漲如果說真的你油價等等上漲你真的撐不下去你該調整不能苛刻或是不能壓榨我們的國道客運嘛不能壓榨駕駛員本席同意啊那但一樣的道理啊為什麼你台鐵你就可以放任300塊500塊這樣去喊\n市長簡單說明一下好不好跟委員報告媒體所報導的那些長出來的這些票價方案並不是現在在討論中的這些方案這個在過去相關的資料媒體取得我也必須承認這是一部分在台鐵公司試算過程但是絕對不是現在在討論的方案試算過程是提出報酬率3%、4%、5%三個方案嘛\n所以媒體才會講說如果說以5%的方案來比的話北高的志強票志強號的票價會漲到快300元嗎\n這個事順我們在討論過程之中就是有討論到這些問題所以\n這件事情在討論我們部裡頭要求臺鐵公司一定要充分的去考慮一些其實他的自己的營運條件市場的狀況以剛剛臺北高雄為例他就沒有考慮到我們經常用的所謂這個這個票價是遞遠遞減距離越長這個是沒有考慮過的所以我說這些是試算過程之中某一些假設算出來那這樣子能不能\n比較直接假設就是未來最終的方案絕對調漲北高會低於300元現在我們還沒有收到數字我現在不敢跟委員報告所以你有可能會高於300元喔不是你剛剛講的你剛剛本席接受你的解釋啊第一5%的推估\n你說這個還沒有經過試算又說他沒有考慮到說越遠地減所以代表說越遠距離越拉長北高算是最長距離了嘛相對來講要地減嘛所以說那個票價應該要低嘛不會是像現在媒體推估的5%然後要300塊啊所以是不是未來最終方案在這一波裡面不會高於300元\n我只能跟委員報告,原來試算的過程是沒有考慮,那考慮這個一定會比那個低一定會比較低,但低多少,不確定,什麼時候會出來這個現在還不,在我們下半年會提到交通部來考慮現任的部長探索3億就留給520,反正就丟給新任部長來決定沒有打算要幫新部長拆彈的意思\n我們現在預定期程是下半年請台鐵公司提出來的這個報告下半年請台鐵提出來那最後啦 次長既然國道客運我們可以用公務預算也去做一些補助讓他的漲的票價不至於太多你說北高最多漲36吸收三分之二那台鐵相關部分我覺得羊毛出在羊身上\n對於一般的普羅大眾來講票價的反應其實是很敏感而且票價連隨著就是民生的相關的一個消費大家都講萬物皆漲唯有薪水不漲在這一波的漲價裡面是不是也要考慮到如果說我們能夠有些相關公務預算能夠支持的話也應該要適時的支持市長這點可以承諾嗎\n這部分我們變到原來的將來的這個方案裡頭一邊來思考是不要讓國人覺得一樣一樣是這個大眾運輸工具北高國道客運只有漲36台鐵一次要漲300十倍的價差我覺得這會讓國人覺得是說這是大小眼好不好謝謝好謝謝洪孟楷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.932 --> 00:03.678\n好主席謝謝麻煩請胡次長胡次長請\n\n00:14.426 --> 00:37.479\n今天應該很多的委員都關心所謂的台鐵漲價本席也關心尤其是民生的議題那另外有看到說17年沒有漲價的國道客運交通部是已經先核定了是允許漲價那有補助所謂的三分之二的一個漲幅所以請教到目前為止有沒有收到相關國道客運業者的詢問或是方案\n\n00:38.208 --> 01:04.802\n那個我請簡單回復是是跟委員報告目前因為剛交通部是5月1號才核定所以我們就是會國道科學院如果說有要這個調整票價的話他還要提報到我們各區監理所那不過我們基本上就是說已經有這個短途的部分在TPS的部分已經有相關的一個補助了那這個中長途的部分的話那個\n\n01:05.722 --> 01:31.108\n中長途非T-pass月票的乘客最高會補助三分之二嗎?那我們匡列了多少元額來去做補助?預計這個部分的話就是說基本上就是說我們預估的這個運量的話在我們的這個公運的預算裡面是足夠可以來支應的的多少啊?還是要看他的運量沒有錯運量但是你會說足夠那代表說你們一定有算過啊是啊\n\n01:32.968 --> 01:54.097\n就是因為這個今年的大概就是說他們提出來的就是預估就是可能就是從5月5月之後的那大概就是說整個的一個就是幾億元的預算我們大概有估算出來啦幾億元這是機密嗎現在民進黨政府主政之下什麼都機密這個不能問是不是\n\n01:55.298 --> 02:14.831\n就是因為他其實跟相關的運量是有關係的是當然跟相關運量有關係這也是本席今天在討論來次長因為有講到說我們如果說國道客運調整方案的話北高票價最高是漲36塊那今天討論到台鐵29年動漲告終北高票價恐漲300塊差了10倍\n\n02:22.111 --> 02:49.482\n本席也覺得台鐵也好國道客運也好這兩個都是非常重要的大眾運輸為什麼因為對於普羅大眾一般的民生來講這兩個大眾運輸是最多人使用而且可能是不分男女老少或不分收入比較低一點點收入比較高一點點都會利用對不對那你現在一個國道客運最高36塊可是台鐵突然間跟我們講說要漲300塊\n\n02:51.616 --> 02:59.487\n那我們也沒有任何的補助措施或者是沒有任何的評估那這樣會不會造成民生的衝擊\n\n03:01.797 --> 03:25.823\n國道客運可以編列幾億元來去協助不管是抑制這個票價還漲本席沒有說不漲如果說真的你油價等等上漲你真的撐不下去你該調整不能苛刻或是不能壓榨我們的國道客運嘛不能壓榨駕駛員本席同意啊那但一樣的道理啊為什麼你台鐵你就可以放任300塊500塊這樣去喊\n\n03:29.066 --> 03:50.842\n市長簡單說明一下好不好跟委員報告媒體所報導的那些長出來的這些票價方案並不是現在在討論中的這些方案這個在過去相關的資料媒體取得我也必須承認這是一部分在台鐵公司試算過程但是絕對不是現在在討論的方案試算過程是提出報酬率3%、4%、5%三個方案嘛\n\n03:52.563 --> 03:57.551\n所以媒體才會講說如果說以5%的方案來比的話北高的志強票志強號的票價會漲到快300元嗎\n\n04:01.041 --> 04:01.741\n這個事順我們在討論過程之中就是有討論到這些問題所以\n\n04:22.908 --> 04:49.542\n這件事情在討論我們部裡頭要求臺鐵公司一定要充分的去考慮一些其實他的自己的營運條件市場的狀況以剛剛臺北高雄為例他就沒有考慮到我們經常用的所謂這個這個票價是遞遠遞減距離越長這個是沒有考慮過的所以我說這些是試算過程之中某一些假設算出來那這樣子能不能\n\n04:50.242 --> 05:09.765\n比較直接假設就是未來最終的方案絕對調漲北高會低於300元現在我們還沒有收到數字我現在不敢跟委員報告所以你有可能會高於300元喔不是你剛剛講的你剛剛本席接受你的解釋啊第一5%的推估\n\n05:10.785 --> 05:31.177\n你說這個還沒有經過試算又說他沒有考慮到說越遠地減所以代表說越遠距離越拉長北高算是最長距離了嘛相對來講要地減嘛所以說那個票價應該要低嘛不會是像現在媒體推估的5%然後要300塊啊所以是不是未來最終方案在這一波裡面不會高於300元\n\n05:32.093 --> 05:56.990\n我只能跟委員報告,原來試算的過程是沒有考慮,那考慮這個一定會比那個低一定會比較低,但低多少,不確定,什麼時候會出來這個現在還不,在我們下半年會提到交通部來考慮現任的部長探索3億就留給520,反正就丟給新任部長來決定沒有打算要幫新部長拆彈的意思\n\n05:57.992 --> 06:19.890\n我們現在預定期程是下半年請台鐵公司提出來的這個報告下半年請台鐵提出來那最後啦次長既然國道客運我們可以用公務預算也去做一些補助讓他的漲的票價不至於太多你說北高最多漲36吸收三分之二那台鐵相關部分我覺得羊毛出在羊身上\n\n06:20.871 --> 06:39.878\n對於一般的普羅大眾來講票價的反應其實是很敏感而且票價連隨著就是民生的相關的一個消費大家都講萬物皆漲唯有薪水不漲在這一波的漲價裡面是不是也要考慮到如果說我們能夠有些相關公務預算能夠支持的話也應該要適時的支持市長這點可以承諾嗎\n\n06:41.731 --> 07:05.155\n這部分我們變到原來的將來的這個方案裡頭一邊來思考是不要讓國人覺得一樣一樣是這個大眾運輸工具北高國道客運只有漲36台鐵一次要漲300十倍的價差我覺得這會讓國人覺得是說這是大小眼好不好謝謝好謝謝洪孟楷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.932,"end":3.678,"text":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請胡次長胡次長請"},{"start":14.426,"end":37.479,"text":"今天應該很多的委員都關心所謂的台鐵漲價本席也關心尤其是民生的議題那另外有看到說17年沒有漲價的國道客運交通部是已經先核定了是允許漲價那有補助所謂的三分之二的一個漲幅所以請教到目前為止有沒有收到相關國道客運業者的詢問或是方案"},{"start":38.208,"end":64.802,"text":"那個我請 簡單回復是是跟委員報告目前因為剛交通部是5月1號才核定所以我們就是會國道科學院如果說有要這個調整票價的話他還要提報到我們各區監理所那不過我們基本上就是說已經有這個短途的部分在TPS的部分已經有相關的一個補助了那這個中長途的部分的話那個"},{"start":65.722,"end":91.108,"text":"中長途非T-pass月票的乘客最高會補助三分之二嗎?那我們匡列了多少元額來去做補助?預計這個部分的話就是說基本上就是說我們預估的這個運量的話在我們的這個公運的預算裡面是足夠可以來支應的的多少啊?還是要看他的運量沒有錯運量但是你會說足夠那代表說你們一定有算過啊是啊"},{"start":92.968,"end":114.097,"text":"就是因為這個今年的大概就是說他們提出來的就是預估就是可能就是從5月5月之後的那大概就是說整個的一個就是幾億元的預算我們大概有估算出來啦幾億元這是機密嗎現在民進黨政府主政之下什麼都機密這個不能問是不是"},{"start":115.298,"end":134.831,"text":"就是因為他其實跟相關的運量是有關係的是當然跟相關運量有關係這也是本席今天在討論來 次長因為有講到說我們如果說國道客運調整方案的話北高票價最高是漲36塊那今天討論到台鐵29年動漲告終北高票價恐漲300塊差了10倍"},{"start":142.111,"end":169.482,"text":"本席也覺得 台鐵也好 國道客運也好這兩個都是非常重要的大眾運輸為什麼 因為對於普羅大眾一般的民生來講這兩個大眾運輸是最多人使用而且可能是不分男女老少或不分收入比較低一點點收入比較高一點點都會利用 對不對那你現在一個國道客運最高36塊可是台鐵突然間跟我們講說要漲300塊"},{"start":171.616,"end":179.487,"text":"那我們也沒有任何的補助措施或者是沒有任何的評估那這樣會不會造成民生的衝擊"},{"start":181.797,"end":205.823,"text":"國道客運可以編列幾億元來去協助不管是抑制這個票價還漲本席沒有說不漲如果說真的你油價等等上漲你真的撐不下去你該調整不能苛刻或是不能壓榨我們的國道客運嘛不能壓榨駕駛員本席同意啊那但一樣的道理啊為什麼你台鐵你就可以放任300塊500塊這樣去喊"},{"start":209.066,"end":230.842,"text":"市長簡單說明一下好不好跟委員報告媒體所報導的那些長出來的這些票價方案並不是現在在討論中的這些方案這個在過去相關的資料媒體取得我也必須承認這是一部分在台鐵公司試算過程但是絕對不是現在在討論的方案試算過程是提出報酬率3%、4%、5%三個方案嘛"},{"start":232.563,"end":237.551,"text":"所以媒體才會講說如果說以5%的方案來比的話北高的志強票志強號的票價會漲到快300元嗎"},{"start":241.041,"end":241.741,"text":"這個事順我們在討論過程之中就是有討論到這些問題所以"},{"start":262.908,"end":289.542,"text":"這件事情在討論我們部裡頭要求臺鐵公司一定要充分的去考慮一些其實他的自己的營運條件市場的狀況以剛剛臺北高雄為例他就沒有考慮到我們經常用的所謂這個這個票價是遞遠遞減距離越長這個是沒有考慮過的所以我說這些是試算過程之中某一些假設算出來那這樣子能不能"},{"start":290.242,"end":309.765,"text":"比較直接假設就是未來最終的方案絕對調漲北高會低於300元現在我們還沒有收到數字我現在不敢跟委員報告所以你有可能會高於300元喔不是你剛剛講的你剛剛本席接受你的解釋啊第一5%的推估"},{"start":310.785,"end":331.177,"text":"你說這個還沒有經過試算又說他沒有考慮到說越遠地減所以代表說越遠距離越拉長北高算是最長距離了嘛相對來講要地減嘛所以說那個票價應該要低嘛不會是像現在媒體推估的5%然後要300塊啊所以是不是未來最終方案在這一波裡面不會高於300元"},{"start":332.093,"end":356.99,"text":"我只能跟委員報告,原來試算的過程是沒有考慮,那考慮這個一定會比那個低一定會比較低,但低多少,不確定,什麼時候會出來這個現在還不,在我們下半年會提到交通部來考慮現任的部長探索3億就留給520,反正就丟給新任部長來決定沒有打算要幫新部長拆彈的意思"},{"start":357.992,"end":379.89,"text":"我們現在預定期程是下半年請台鐵公司提出來的這個報告下半年請台鐵提出來那最後啦 次長既然國道客運我們可以用公務預算也去做一些補助讓他的漲的票價不至於太多你說北高最多漲36吸收三分之二那台鐵相關部分我覺得羊毛出在羊身上"},{"start":380.871,"end":399.878,"text":"對於一般的普羅大眾來講票價的反應其實是很敏感而且票價連隨著就是民生的相關的一個消費大家都講萬物皆漲唯有薪水不漲在這一波的漲價裡面是不是也要考慮到如果說我們能夠有些相關公務預算能夠支持的話也應該要適時的支持市長這點可以承諾嗎"},{"start":401.731,"end":425.155,"text":"這部分我們變到原來的將來的這個方案裡頭一邊來思考是不要讓國人覺得一樣一樣是這個大眾運輸工具北高國道客運只有漲36台鐵一次要漲300十倍的價差我覺得這會讓國人覺得是說這是大小眼好不好謝謝好謝謝洪孟楷委員"}]}}}}