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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"昌\", \"start\": 507.744, \"end\": 507.804, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 507.804, \"end\": 507.824, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,205 --> 00:00:11,164\n謝謝主席,是不是可以麻煩有請交通部的胡政志以及台鐵公司的董事長、布董事長\n\n2\n00:00:17,525 --> 00:00:41,015\n喂你好政治好董事長針對台鐵需要的資源去讓這個列車更安全我向來都是非常支持的但是從之前我就發現台鐵不要花一堆錢去做沒有效果的東西我舉一個具體的例子當初\n\n3\n00:00:41,874 --> 00:00:56,331\n普悠瑪的悲劇發生了以後我後來發現我們的後勤次元管理系統搞得亂七八糟的我當時沒有說錯花了快3億嘛耗費了6年多嘛結果一事無成現在在訴訟\n\n4\n00:00:57,512 --> 00:01:26,007\n董事長我的理解沒有錯吧記取之前的教訓我上一次運安會來的時候我就在請教運安會說台鐵去跟政府申請了六千萬這六千萬搞列控4.0到底做出來什麼東西因為這個計畫從一開始的時候從天而降跟台鐵既有的系統根本沒有辦法match\n\n5\n00:01:26,647 --> 00:01:55,090\n沒有辦法銜接所以我就一直去追這一個列控4.0到底從什麼地方而來的結果找了一個亂七八糟的廠商去詐騙他自己在美國得獎的經驗結果後來發現他根本就沒有參與美國的那個自駕車的系統拿假的理律來台灣騙拿到獎了以後結果我們政府一堆補助就給他們\n\n6\n00:01:55,891 --> 00:02:18,513\n我上一次請教運安會的時候運安會給我的結論是這個系統根本沒有辦法用董事長這樣不贊成不贊成所以你認為可以用跟委員報告是他裡面驗證的東西是經過驗證的是可以的但是也要跟委員說實話\n\n7\n00:02:20,194 --> 00:02:34,733\n他裡面有一些驗證完成的東西因為台鐵很大如果台鐵要全盤來接收的話那個成本會很高現在一個最關鍵的問題這個計畫台鐵還要不要再丟錢下去繼續做\n\n8\n00:02:38,670 --> 00:03:03,478\n這個我們要研議就是要研議多久我們預計是要一年來我們繼續再往下看因為我聽到的是在2023年去年1月的時候這個情況視點裡到運安會討論的研討會我聽到的狀況是砲聲隆隆從他的專業性可行性安全性一堆批評全部都出來\n\n9\n00:03:04,946 --> 00:03:30,540\n如果今天花錢做的東西是對於台鐵的安全性真的有幫助而且跟既有的系統可以銜接我相信納稅人會支持但是如果是跟以前的我剛剛所舉的那個例子後勤資源管理系統一樣花了快3億搞了6年多一事無成最後現在進行訴訟監察院也糾正了那又怎麼樣\n\n10\n00:03:31,621 --> 00:03:58,407\n浪費了錢丟到水裡面去全部都追不回來了吧我那天在運安會研討會的時候因為我看到這個狀況所以我就非常有興趣我就去跟運安會要了那一天開研討會的時候的會議記錄我看了會議記錄運安會裡面有非常多的委員提出非常專業的質疑但是我在會議記錄裡面完全沒有看到台鐵有答覆所以我趁今天質詢的時間來請教一下\n\n11\n00:04:00,808 --> 00:04:12,489\n列控4.0的計畫是台鐵內部經過專業評估而提出來的還是外面上面有大官由上而下丟下來要求台鐵執行的\n\n12\n00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:37,754\n跟委員報告齁這個列控4.0的他是一個POC的一個計畫是請你針對問題回答就好是是所以他在提出的時候我們有針對誰在提出的時候就是我們當時是台鐵局是台鐵局自己提的嗎希望爭取預算來做這個POC是台鐵局自己提的嗎\n\n13\n00:04:40,243 --> 00:05:03,317\n這個是台鐵局提的阿對阿你一開始的時候你為什麼會提這個計畫這個是我的問題嘛這也是運安會委員的問題嘛所以他的問題是說你們是台鐵內部經過專業評估自己提出來的計畫還是外面有人丟進來要求台鐵去做的事情這個應該是台鐵局自己內部做了評估以後認為說來我們繼續看下去齁\n\n14\n00:05:05,999 --> 00:05:22,424\n媒體有報導張景生要求交通部台鐵局在3年內完成200億的全台列控4.0計畫然後呢在那一天研討會的時候台鐵提了一個報告這個報告我去拿來看了\n\n15\n00:05:23,393 --> 00:05:35,140\n在23頁裡面說交通部胡政務次長要台鐵盡快完成列控4.0的後續服務驗證以及商業驗證計畫來請教一下胡次長真的嗎\n\n16\n00:05:40,618 --> 00:06:07,159\n你有做這樣的要求嗎我當時是有提這件事情因為我所了解他們提出來的計畫必須要完成這個螢幕上所談的後續的這些相關的商業驗證所以我要求他們儘快要完成這個好那這個計畫做出來的列控4.0跟台鐵目前所在推的第三代第三代CTS的計畫是可以相match的嗎\n\n17\n00:06:11,733 --> 00:06:13,816\n這兩部分還沒有完全去確認那我覺得問題就來了\n\n18\n00:06:24,710 --> 00:06:39,428\n你現在應該聽得懂為什麼開始在擔心這件事嗎?如果連這件事情都還沒有確認我們就先設建再畫吧三年內要完成200億的全台列控4.0計畫我看到這個啦我其實有點驚訝\n\n19\n00:06:40,689 --> 00:07:03,742\n因為如果是外部的政治力介入為了特定廠商的利益政治力介入去講這種外行的話我雖然不贊成但我可以理解為什麼會發生這樣的事情但我對胡市長的認識是您是一個非常專業的老交通人這兩個還沒有match的情況之下就提這樣子的要求您覺得真的適合嗎\n\n20\n00:07:06,394 --> 00:07:17,270\n我剛我前來提這個要求是當初在列控4.0他應該要完成的這些程序他後面兩次還沒有是針對這件事情你照不贊成再丟200億下去繼續做\n\n21\n00:07:20,461 --> 00:07:38,653\n這要經過審慎評估來董事長接下來會丟200億下去繼續做嗎這要評估報告委員我剛剛有講一年再加上另外半年的一個我們的一個陳報的時間這真的是要經過評估好我希望台鐵齁好好評估喔\n\n22\n00:07:40,094 --> 00:08:04,139\n本於專業啊進行評估啊我的預測啦你們評估一年完以後我自己的預測依照我目前掌握到所有的訊息這個計畫一定無疾而終這個計畫一定無疾而終因為跟你現有的系統根本對接不起來嘛沒有關係我們繼續往下看但我只要求台鐵一件事情進行這件事情評估的時候請本於你們的專業立場\n\n23\n00:08:05,984 --> 00:08:27,824\n不要受到外面的政治力關大學問大帶著廠商莫名其妙的廠商回來就要台鐵拿錢去做這個跟既有的系統根本對接不上莫名其妙的東西請台鐵接下來等於你們的專業好好評估喔不要再繼續浪費錢去做一些沒有用的東西了好謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4205\t11164\t謝謝主席,是不是可以麻煩有請交通部的胡政志以及台鐵公司的董事長、布董事長\n17525\t41015\t喂 你好政治好 董事長針對台鐵需要的資源去讓這個列車更安全我向來都是非常支持的但是從之前我就發現台鐵不要花一堆錢去做沒有效果的東西我舉一個具體的例子當初\n41874\t56331\t普悠瑪的悲劇發生了以後我後來發現我們的後勤次元管理系統搞得亂七八糟的我當時沒有說錯花了快3億嘛耗費了6年多嘛結果一事無成現在在訴訟\n57512\t86007\t董事長我的理解沒有錯吧記取之前的教訓我上一次運安會來的時候我就在請教運安會說台鐵去跟政府申請了六千萬這六千萬搞列控4.0到底做出來什麼東西因為這個計畫從一開始的時候從天而降跟台鐵既有的系統根本沒有辦法match\n86647\t115090\t沒有辦法銜接所以我就一直去追這一個列控4.0到底從什麼地方而來的結果找了一個亂七八糟的廠商去詐騙他自己在美國得獎的經驗結果後來發現他根本就沒有參與美國的那個自駕車的系統拿假的理律來台灣騙拿到獎了以後結果我們政府一堆補助就給他們\n115891\t138513\t我上一次請教運安會的時候運安會給我的結論是這個系統根本沒有辦法用董事長這樣不贊成不贊成所以你認為可以用跟委員報告是他裡面驗證的東西是經過驗證的是可以的但是也要跟委員說實話\n140194\t154733\t他裡面有一些驗證完成的東西因為台鐵很大如果台鐵要全盤來接收的話那個成本會很高現在一個最關鍵的問題這個計畫台鐵還要不要再丟錢下去繼續做\n158670\t183478\t這個我們要研議就是要研議多久我們預計是要一年來我們繼續再往下看因為我聽到的是在2023年去年1月的時候這個情況視點裡到運安會討論的研討會我聽到的狀況是砲聲隆隆從他的專業性可行性安全性一堆批評全部都出來\n184946\t210540\t如果今天花錢做的東西是對於台鐵的安全性真的有幫助而且跟既有的系統可以銜接我相信納稅人會支持但是如果是跟以前的我剛剛所舉的那個例子後勤資源管理系統一樣花了快3億搞了6年多一事無成最後現在進行訴訟監察院也糾正了那又怎麼樣\n211621\t238407\t浪費了錢丟到水裡面去全部都追不回來了吧我那天在運安會研討會的時候因為我看到這個狀況所以我就非常有興趣我就去跟運安會要了那一天開研討會的時候的會議記錄我看了會議記錄運安會裡面有非常多的委員提出非常專業的質疑但是我在會議記錄裡面完全沒有看到台鐵有答覆所以我趁今天質詢的時間來請教一下\n240808\t252489\t列控4.0的計畫是台鐵內部經過專業評估而提出來的還是外面上面有大官由上而下丟下來要求台鐵執行的\n253680\t277754\t跟委員報告齁這個列控4.0的他是一個POC的一個計畫是請你針對問題回答就好是是所以他在提出的時候我們有針對誰在提出的時候就是我們當時是台鐵局是台鐵局自己提的嗎希望爭取預算來做這個POC是台鐵局自己提的嗎\n280243\t303317\t這個是台鐵局提的阿對阿你一開始的時候你為什麼會提這個計畫這個是我的問題嘛這也是運安會委員的問題嘛所以他的問題是說你們是台鐵內部經過專業評估自己提出來的計畫還是外面有人丟進來要求台鐵去做的事情這個應該是台鐵局自己內部做了評估以後認為說來我們繼續看下去齁\n305999\t322424\t媒體有報導張景生要求交通部台鐵局在3年內完成200億的全台列控4.0計畫然後呢在那一天研討會的時候台鐵提了一個報告這個報告我去拿來看了\n323393\t335140\t在23頁裡面說交通部胡政務次長要台鐵盡快完成列控4.0的後續服務驗證以及商業驗證計畫來請教一下胡次長 真的嗎\n340618\t367159\t你有做這樣的要求嗎我當時是有提這件事情因為我所了解他們提出來的計畫必須要完成這個螢幕上所談的後續的這些相關的商業驗證所以我要求他們儘快要完成這個好那這個計畫做出來的列控4.0跟台鐵目前所在推的第三代第三代CTS的計畫是可以相match的嗎\n371733\t373816\t這兩部分還沒有完全去確認那我覺得問題就來了\n384710\t399428\t你現在應該聽得懂為什麼開始在擔心這件事嗎?如果連這件事情都還沒有確認我們就先設建再畫吧三年內要完成200億的全台列控4.0計畫我看到這個啦我其實有點驚訝\n400689\t423742\t因為如果是外部的政治力介入為了特定廠商的利益政治力介入去講這種外行的話我雖然不贊成但我可以理解為什麼會發生這樣的事情但我對胡市長的認識是您是一個非常專業的老交通人這兩個還沒有match的情況之下就提這樣子的要求您覺得真的適合嗎\n426394\t437270\t我剛我前來提這個要求是當初在列控4.0他應該要完成的這些程序他後面兩次還沒有是針對這件事情你照不贊成再丟200億下去繼續做\n440461\t458653\t這要經過審慎評估來 董事長接下來會丟200億下去繼續做嗎這要評估 報告委員我剛剛有講一年再加上另外半年的一個我們的一個陳報的時間這真的是要經過評估好 我希望台鐵齁好好評估喔\n460094\t484139\t本於專業啊進行評估啊我的預測啦你們評估一年完以後我自己的預測依照我目前掌握到所有的訊息這個計畫一定無疾而終這個計畫一定無疾而終因為跟你現有的系統根本對接不起來嘛沒有關係我們繼續往下看但我只要求台鐵一件事情進行這件事情評估的時候請本於你們的專業立場\n485984\t507824\t不要受到外面的政治力關大學問大帶著廠商莫名其妙的廠商回來就要台鐵拿錢去做這個跟既有的系統根本對接不上莫名其妙的東西請台鐵接下來等於你們的專業好好評估喔不要再繼續浪費錢去做一些沒有用的東西了好 謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席,是不是可以麻煩有請交通部的胡政志以及台鐵公司的董事長、布董事長\n喂 你好政治好 董事長針對台鐵需要的資源去讓這個列車更安全我向來都是非常支持的但是從之前我就發現台鐵不要花一堆錢去做沒有效果的東西我舉一個具體的例子當初\n普悠瑪的悲劇發生了以後我後來發現我們的後勤次元管理系統搞得亂七八糟的我當時沒有說錯花了快3億嘛耗費了6年多嘛結果一事無成現在在訴訟\n董事長我的理解沒有錯吧記取之前的教訓我上一次運安會來的時候我就在請教運安會說台鐵去跟政府申請了六千萬這六千萬搞列控4.0到底做出來什麼東西因為這個計畫從一開始的時候從天而降跟台鐵既有的系統根本沒有辦法match\n沒有辦法銜接所以我就一直去追這一個列控4.0到底從什麼地方而來的結果找了一個亂七八糟的廠商去詐騙他自己在美國得獎的經驗結果後來發現他根本就沒有參與美國的那個自駕車的系統拿假的理律來台灣騙拿到獎了以後結果我們政府一堆補助就給他們\n我上一次請教運安會的時候運安會給我的結論是這個系統根本沒有辦法用董事長這樣不贊成不贊成所以你認為可以用跟委員報告是他裡面驗證的東西是經過驗證的是可以的但是也要跟委員說實話\n他裡面有一些驗證完成的東西因為台鐵很大如果台鐵要全盤來接收的話那個成本會很高現在一個最關鍵的問題這個計畫台鐵還要不要再丟錢下去繼續做\n這個我們要研議就是要研議多久我們預計是要一年來我們繼續再往下看因為我聽到的是在2023年去年1月的時候這個情況視點裡到運安會討論的研討會我聽到的狀況是砲聲隆隆從他的專業性可行性安全性一堆批評全部都出來\n如果今天花錢做的東西是對於台鐵的安全性真的有幫助而且跟既有的系統可以銜接我相信納稅人會支持但是如果是跟以前的我剛剛所舉的那個例子後勤資源管理系統一樣花了快3億搞了6年多一事無成最後現在進行訴訟監察院也糾正了那又怎麼樣\n浪費了錢丟到水裡面去全部都追不回來了吧我那天在運安會研討會的時候因為我看到這個狀況所以我就非常有興趣我就去跟運安會要了那一天開研討會的時候的會議記錄我看了會議記錄運安會裡面有非常多的委員提出非常專業的質疑但是我在會議記錄裡面完全沒有看到台鐵有答覆所以我趁今天質詢的時間來請教一下\n列控4.0的計畫是台鐵內部經過專業評估而提出來的還是外面上面有大官由上而下丟下來要求台鐵執行的\n跟委員報告齁這個列控4.0的他是一個POC的一個計畫是請你針對問題回答就好是是所以他在提出的時候我們有針對誰在提出的時候就是我們當時是台鐵局是台鐵局自己提的嗎希望爭取預算來做這個POC是台鐵局自己提的嗎\n這個是台鐵局提的阿對阿你一開始的時候你為什麼會提這個計畫這個是我的問題嘛這也是運安會委員的問題嘛所以他的問題是說你們是台鐵內部經過專業評估自己提出來的計畫還是外面有人丟進來要求台鐵去做的事情這個應該是台鐵局自己內部做了評估以後認為說來我們繼續看下去齁\n媒體有報導張景生要求交通部台鐵局在3年內完成200億的全台列控4.0計畫然後呢在那一天研討會的時候台鐵提了一個報告這個報告我去拿來看了\n在23頁裡面說交通部胡政務次長要台鐵盡快完成列控4.0的後續服務驗證以及商業驗證計畫來請教一下胡次長 真的嗎\n你有做這樣的要求嗎我當時是有提這件事情因為我所了解他們提出來的計畫必須要完成這個螢幕上所談的後續的這些相關的商業驗證所以我要求他們儘快要完成這個好那這個計畫做出來的列控4.0跟台鐵目前所在推的第三代第三代CTS的計畫是可以相match的嗎\n這兩部分還沒有完全去確認那我覺得問題就來了\n你現在應該聽得懂為什麼開始在擔心這件事嗎?如果連這件事情都還沒有確認我們就先設建再畫吧三年內要完成200億的全台列控4.0計畫我看到這個啦我其實有點驚訝\n因為如果是外部的政治力介入為了特定廠商的利益政治力介入去講這種外行的話我雖然不贊成但我可以理解為什麼會發生這樣的事情但我對胡市長的認識是您是一個非常專業的老交通人這兩個還沒有match的情況之下就提這樣子的要求您覺得真的適合嗎\n我剛我前來提這個要求是當初在列控4.0他應該要完成的這些程序他後面兩次還沒有是針對這件事情你照不贊成再丟200億下去繼續做\n這要經過審慎評估來 董事長接下來會丟200億下去繼續做嗎這要評估 報告委員我剛剛有講一年再加上另外半年的一個我們的一個陳報的時間這真的是要經過評估好 我希望台鐵齁好好評估喔\n本於專業啊進行評估啊我的預測啦你們評估一年完以後我自己的預測依照我目前掌握到所有的訊息這個計畫一定無疾而終這個計畫一定無疾而終因為跟你現有的系統根本對接不起來嘛沒有關係我們繼續往下看但我只要求台鐵一件事情進行這件事情評估的時候請本於你們的專業立場\n不要受到外面的政治力關大學問大帶著廠商莫名其妙的廠商回來就要台鐵拿錢去做這個跟既有的系統根本對接不上莫名其妙的東西請台鐵接下來等於你們的專業好好評估喔不要再繼續浪費錢去做一些沒有用的東西了好 謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.205 --> 00:11.164\n謝謝主席,是不是可以麻煩有請交通部的胡政志以及台鐵公司的董事長、布董事長\n\n00:17.525 --> 00:41.015\n喂你好政治好董事長針對台鐵需要的資源去讓這個列車更安全我向來都是非常支持的但是從之前我就發現台鐵不要花一堆錢去做沒有效果的東西我舉一個具體的例子當初\n\n00:41.874 --> 00:56.331\n普悠瑪的悲劇發生了以後我後來發現我們的後勤次元管理系統搞得亂七八糟的我當時沒有說錯花了快3億嘛耗費了6年多嘛結果一事無成現在在訴訟\n\n00:57.512 --> 01:26.007\n董事長我的理解沒有錯吧記取之前的教訓我上一次運安會來的時候我就在請教運安會說台鐵去跟政府申請了六千萬這六千萬搞列控4.0到底做出來什麼東西因為這個計畫從一開始的時候從天而降跟台鐵既有的系統根本沒有辦法match\n\n01:26.647 --> 01:55.090\n沒有辦法銜接所以我就一直去追這一個列控4.0到底從什麼地方而來的結果找了一個亂七八糟的廠商去詐騙他自己在美國得獎的經驗結果後來發現他根本就沒有參與美國的那個自駕車的系統拿假的理律來台灣騙拿到獎了以後結果我們政府一堆補助就給他們\n\n01:55.891 --> 02:18.513\n我上一次請教運安會的時候運安會給我的結論是這個系統根本沒有辦法用董事長這樣不贊成不贊成所以你認為可以用跟委員報告是他裡面驗證的東西是經過驗證的是可以的但是也要跟委員說實話\n\n02:20.194 --> 02:34.733\n他裡面有一些驗證完成的東西因為台鐵很大如果台鐵要全盤來接收的話那個成本會很高現在一個最關鍵的問題這個計畫台鐵還要不要再丟錢下去繼續做\n\n02:38.670 --> 03:03.478\n這個我們要研議就是要研議多久我們預計是要一年來我們繼續再往下看因為我聽到的是在2023年去年1月的時候這個情況視點裡到運安會討論的研討會我聽到的狀況是砲聲隆隆從他的專業性可行性安全性一堆批評全部都出來\n\n03:04.946 --> 03:30.540\n如果今天花錢做的東西是對於台鐵的安全性真的有幫助而且跟既有的系統可以銜接我相信納稅人會支持但是如果是跟以前的我剛剛所舉的那個例子後勤資源管理系統一樣花了快3億搞了6年多一事無成最後現在進行訴訟監察院也糾正了那又怎麼樣\n\n03:31.621 --> 03:58.407\n浪費了錢丟到水裡面去全部都追不回來了吧我那天在運安會研討會的時候因為我看到這個狀況所以我就非常有興趣我就去跟運安會要了那一天開研討會的時候的會議記錄我看了會議記錄運安會裡面有非常多的委員提出非常專業的質疑但是我在會議記錄裡面完全沒有看到台鐵有答覆所以我趁今天質詢的時間來請教一下\n\n04:00.808 --> 04:12.489\n列控4.0的計畫是台鐵內部經過專業評估而提出來的還是外面上面有大官由上而下丟下來要求台鐵執行的\n\n04:13.680 --> 04:37.754\n跟委員報告齁這個列控4.0的他是一個POC的一個計畫是請你針對問題回答就好是是所以他在提出的時候我們有針對誰在提出的時候就是我們當時是台鐵局是台鐵局自己提的嗎希望爭取預算來做這個POC是台鐵局自己提的嗎\n\n04:40.243 --> 05:03.317\n這個是台鐵局提的阿對阿你一開始的時候你為什麼會提這個計畫這個是我的問題嘛這也是運安會委員的問題嘛所以他的問題是說你們是台鐵內部經過專業評估自己提出來的計畫還是外面有人丟進來要求台鐵去做的事情這個應該是台鐵局自己內部做了評估以後認為說來我們繼續看下去齁\n\n05:05.999 --> 05:22.424\n媒體有報導張景生要求交通部台鐵局在3年內完成200億的全台列控4.0計畫然後呢在那一天研討會的時候台鐵提了一個報告這個報告我去拿來看了\n\n05:23.393 --> 05:35.140\n在23頁裡面說交通部胡政務次長要台鐵盡快完成列控4.0的後續服務驗證以及商業驗證計畫來請教一下胡次長真的嗎\n\n05:40.618 --> 06:07.159\n你有做這樣的要求嗎我當時是有提這件事情因為我所了解他們提出來的計畫必須要完成這個螢幕上所談的後續的這些相關的商業驗證所以我要求他們儘快要完成這個好那這個計畫做出來的列控4.0跟台鐵目前所在推的第三代第三代CTS的計畫是可以相match的嗎\n\n06:11.733 --> 06:13.816\n這兩部分還沒有完全去確認那我覺得問題就來了\n\n06:24.710 --> 06:39.428\n你現在應該聽得懂為什麼開始在擔心這件事嗎?如果連這件事情都還沒有確認我們就先設建再畫吧三年內要完成200億的全台列控4.0計畫我看到這個啦我其實有點驚訝\n\n06:40.689 --> 07:03.742\n因為如果是外部的政治力介入為了特定廠商的利益政治力介入去講這種外行的話我雖然不贊成但我可以理解為什麼會發生這樣的事情但我對胡市長的認識是您是一個非常專業的老交通人這兩個還沒有match的情況之下就提這樣子的要求您覺得真的適合嗎\n\n07:06.394 --> 07:17.270\n我剛我前來提這個要求是當初在列控4.0他應該要完成的這些程序他後面兩次還沒有是針對這件事情你照不贊成再丟200億下去繼續做\n\n07:20.461 --> 07:38.653\n這要經過審慎評估來董事長接下來會丟200億下去繼續做嗎這要評估報告委員我剛剛有講一年再加上另外半年的一個我們的一個陳報的時間這真的是要經過評估好我希望台鐵齁好好評估喔\n\n07:40.094 --> 08:04.139\n本於專業啊進行評估啊我的預測啦你們評估一年完以後我自己的預測依照我目前掌握到所有的訊息這個計畫一定無疾而終這個計畫一定無疾而終因為跟你現有的系統根本對接不起來嘛沒有關係我們繼續往下看但我只要求台鐵一件事情進行這件事情評估的時候請本於你們的專業立場\n\n08:05.984 --> 08:27.824\n不要受到外面的政治力關大學問大帶著廠商莫名其妙的廠商回來就要台鐵拿錢去做這個跟既有的系統根本對接不上莫名其妙的東西請台鐵接下來等於你們的專業好好評估喔不要再繼續浪費錢去做一些沒有用的東西了好謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.205,"end":11.164,"text":"謝謝主席,是不是可以麻煩有請交通部的胡政志以及台鐵公司的董事長、布董事長"},{"start":17.525,"end":41.015,"text":"喂 你好政治好 董事長針對台鐵需要的資源去讓這個列車更安全我向來都是非常支持的但是從之前我就發現台鐵不要花一堆錢去做沒有效果的東西我舉一個具體的例子當初"},{"start":41.874,"end":56.331,"text":"普悠瑪的悲劇發生了以後我後來發現我們的後勤次元管理系統搞得亂七八糟的我當時沒有說錯花了快3億嘛耗費了6年多嘛結果一事無成現在在訴訟"},{"start":57.512,"end":86.007,"text":"董事長我的理解沒有錯吧記取之前的教訓我上一次運安會來的時候我就在請教運安會說台鐵去跟政府申請了六千萬這六千萬搞列控4.0到底做出來什麼東西因為這個計畫從一開始的時候從天而降跟台鐵既有的系統根本沒有辦法match"},{"start":86.647,"end":115.09,"text":"沒有辦法銜接所以我就一直去追這一個列控4.0到底從什麼地方而來的結果找了一個亂七八糟的廠商去詐騙他自己在美國得獎的經驗結果後來發現他根本就沒有參與美國的那個自駕車的系統拿假的理律來台灣騙拿到獎了以後結果我們政府一堆補助就給他們"},{"start":115.891,"end":138.513,"text":"我上一次請教運安會的時候運安會給我的結論是這個系統根本沒有辦法用董事長這樣不贊成不贊成所以你認為可以用跟委員報告是他裡面驗證的東西是經過驗證的是可以的但是也要跟委員說實話"},{"start":140.194,"end":154.733,"text":"他裡面有一些驗證完成的東西因為台鐵很大如果台鐵要全盤來接收的話那個成本會很高現在一個最關鍵的問題這個計畫台鐵還要不要再丟錢下去繼續做"},{"start":158.67,"end":183.478,"text":"這個我們要研議就是要研議多久我們預計是要一年來我們繼續再往下看因為我聽到的是在2023年去年1月的時候這個情況視點裡到運安會討論的研討會我聽到的狀況是砲聲隆隆從他的專業性可行性安全性一堆批評全部都出來"},{"start":184.946,"end":210.54,"text":"如果今天花錢做的東西是對於台鐵的安全性真的有幫助而且跟既有的系統可以銜接我相信納稅人會支持但是如果是跟以前的我剛剛所舉的那個例子後勤資源管理系統一樣花了快3億搞了6年多一事無成最後現在進行訴訟監察院也糾正了那又怎麼樣"},{"start":211.621,"end":238.407,"text":"浪費了錢丟到水裡面去全部都追不回來了吧我那天在運安會研討會的時候因為我看到這個狀況所以我就非常有興趣我就去跟運安會要了那一天開研討會的時候的會議記錄我看了會議記錄運安會裡面有非常多的委員提出非常專業的質疑但是我在會議記錄裡面完全沒有看到台鐵有答覆所以我趁今天質詢的時間來請教一下"},{"start":240.808,"end":252.489,"text":"列控4.0的計畫是台鐵內部經過專業評估而提出來的還是外面上面有大官由上而下丟下來要求台鐵執行的"},{"start":253.68,"end":277.754,"text":"跟委員報告齁這個列控4.0的他是一個POC的一個計畫是請你針對問題回答就好是是所以他在提出的時候我們有針對誰在提出的時候就是我們當時是台鐵局是台鐵局自己提的嗎希望爭取預算來做這個POC是台鐵局自己提的嗎"},{"start":280.243,"end":303.317,"text":"這個是台鐵局提的阿對阿你一開始的時候你為什麼會提這個計畫這個是我的問題嘛這也是運安會委員的問題嘛所以他的問題是說你們是台鐵內部經過專業評估自己提出來的計畫還是外面有人丟進來要求台鐵去做的事情這個應該是台鐵局自己內部做了評估以後認為說來我們繼續看下去齁"},{"start":305.999,"end":322.424,"text":"媒體有報導張景生要求交通部台鐵局在3年內完成200億的全台列控4.0計畫然後呢在那一天研討會的時候台鐵提了一個報告這個報告我去拿來看了"},{"start":323.393,"end":335.14,"text":"在23頁裡面說交通部胡政務次長要台鐵盡快完成列控4.0的後續服務驗證以及商業驗證計畫來請教一下胡次長 真的嗎"},{"start":340.618,"end":367.159,"text":"你有做這樣的要求嗎我當時是有提這件事情因為我所了解他們提出來的計畫必須要完成這個螢幕上所談的後續的這些相關的商業驗證所以我要求他們儘快要完成這個好那這個計畫做出來的列控4.0跟台鐵目前所在推的第三代第三代CTS的計畫是可以相match的嗎"},{"start":371.733,"end":373.816,"text":"這兩部分還沒有完全去確認那我覺得問題就來了"},{"start":384.71,"end":399.428,"text":"你現在應該聽得懂為什麼開始在擔心這件事嗎?如果連這件事情都還沒有確認我們就先設建再畫吧三年內要完成200億的全台列控4.0計畫我看到這個啦我其實有點驚訝"},{"start":400.689,"end":423.742,"text":"因為如果是外部的政治力介入為了特定廠商的利益政治力介入去講這種外行的話我雖然不贊成但我可以理解為什麼會發生這樣的事情但我對胡市長的認識是您是一個非常專業的老交通人這兩個還沒有match的情況之下就提這樣子的要求您覺得真的適合嗎"},{"start":426.394,"end":437.27,"text":"我剛我前來提這個要求是當初在列控4.0他應該要完成的這些程序他後面兩次還沒有是針對這件事情你照不贊成再丟200億下去繼續做"},{"start":440.461,"end":458.653,"text":"這要經過審慎評估來 董事長接下來會丟200億下去繼續做嗎這要評估 報告委員我剛剛有講一年再加上另外半年的一個我們的一個陳報的時間這真的是要經過評估好 我希望台鐵齁好好評估喔"},{"start":460.094,"end":484.139,"text":"本於專業啊進行評估啊我的預測啦你們評估一年完以後我自己的預測依照我目前掌握到所有的訊息這個計畫一定無疾而終這個計畫一定無疾而終因為跟你現有的系統根本對接不起來嘛沒有關係我們繼續往下看但我只要求台鐵一件事情進行這件事情評估的時候請本於你們的專業立場"},{"start":485.984,"end":507.824,"text":"不要受到外面的政治力關大學問大帶著廠商莫名其妙的廠商回來就要台鐵拿錢去做這個跟既有的系統根本對接不上莫名其妙的東西請台鐵接下來等於你們的專業好好評估喔不要再繼續浪費錢去做一些沒有用的東西了好 謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員"}]}}}}