{"id":152230,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152230","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6319d5f220c85a681647c95a9722335202d7c7fd8521078531dedd6677c47737c30ece9fadaa79bc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"13:08:04 - 13:14:20","影片長度":"00:06:16","會議時間":"2024-05-06T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長王國材「針對台鐵票價上漲暨列車準點率提升作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-06","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-11"},"duration":376,"end_time":"2024-05-06T13:14:20+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-06T13:08:04+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":678,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（13時8分）好，請公路局的陳文瑞局長。"],["主席：陳文瑞局長。"],["陳局長文瑞：委員好。"],["林委員月琴：局長好。我們都曉得道路交通安全基本法已經通過了，目前各項法規以基本法為最上位的架構，都要以人本交通跟用路人安全作為最高原則，進行各項法規的調修工作，可是現在不知道各部相關法規的進度跟方向，也希望你們能夠掌握。今天有兩點跟你的工作有非常大的關係，所以也請局長給個明確的答案。首先是針對行人安全的保護，國際媒體說我們事實上是行人地獄，目前看起來國內的道路二法──市區道路條例及其工程設計標準，或是公路法的相關規定當中，都有要求人行道的設置，最新通過的行人交通安全設施條例，也有針對都市計畫區域內一定寬度以上的道路，要求須有分年分期的建設計畫，保障用路人的安全，可是僅止於此，因為針對部分道路的維護管理，現行的法規並沒有要求設置人行道的相關規定。各縣市境內非都市計畫區的道路，除了被編定為公路外，並沒有任何中央法規去做規範，因此像當初彰化三姊弟路口事故的案發地點就是在都市計畫區域之外。臺灣長期以來缺乏完善的都市計畫，不能排除或阻止民眾居住在都市計劃範圍之外，但都市計畫範圍外的公共支持極其有限，因此會發生這樣的事情。","我當然知道公路局針對此案非常有效率也很積極，馬上諮詢各界專家學者，立即提出改善計畫與會勘，很快就在一個月內改善完工。這麼快速我們當然肯認，可是我這邊要提醒的是，正如我前面所提的，對於這種類型的孤兒道路，我建議未來都應該以減少衝突點做為核心的改善原則。大家看一下本席所示這張圖片的左手邊，就可以知道其中有16個衝突點，如果採用MUT的做法是相當可行的，可是並沒有這樣採用，因為你們沒有諮詢到更多專家學者來採用這種方法。雖然這個案子已經完成了，不過我還是要建議，未來交通部是不是應該在改善方案中參採更多專業意見，而不是做了以後，下次事情又再發生，這樣到底我們有多少人命可以來買單呢？反而是在這麼匆忙當中，沒有完備的話，基本上還是沒有辦法解決問題。","在整個道安的基本規定裡面，政府應調和法規，提升車輛安全。過去我們在車輛型式的調和上，M類、N類和O類車型一直以來都是跟UNECE同步，但是L類似乎存在許多缺口，L4、L6及L7就不在調和範圍內。排除L4、L6及L7車型，會影響國內民眾權益，像L4，我長期關心兒少安全，它用於乘載兒童，而且安全性優於現在交通部在討論的兒童機車座椅。一旦使用兒童機車座椅，孩子在發生車禍的時候會沒辦法脫身，可是這竟然是被你們排除的。","所以我在此主張，中央道路主管機關應該儘速一元化，重新打造合理的各級道路法制；還有，針對交通工程的改善，是不是要減少衝突點如MUT的作法？此外，車輛型式是不是儘速與國際法規接軌，提供國內民眾使用安全的車輛？我不知道這3點局長最後是不是可以給我一個答復？如果不行的話，是不是在1個月內提出具體的回復？"],["陳局長文瑞：是。跟委員報告，整個公路系統的部分，根據公路法第五十八條，進入市區道路的話，相關的人行道等設計標準都是要比照市區道路，另外，在路段外的，如果是非都區域的話，我們其實也在檢討公路本身整體的斷面，譬如說有些空間、路肩可以縮的話，我們就可以來增設人行道。所以整個人本空間的增設部分其實是包括內政部國土署和交通部公路局，另外就是行政院也已經核定，因為道路的權屬有很多單位，所以整個道路的規劃指引，交通部這邊也會提出來……"],["林委員月琴：局長，尤其是彰化那件事情，你是不是可以在1個月內回復？還有我剛剛說的這3點也請提出說明。我覺得不是感覺改得很快速，基本上卻沒有改到位，我就是擔心下次再度發生事情的時候，我們再來檢討就來不及了！"],["陳局長文瑞：瞭解、瞭解，每一次的會勘基本上包括交通、警察和相關的專家學者都有邀請，不過或許……"],["林委員月琴：可不可以更多元？真的大家都在關心這些，而且他們有引進一些國外比較先進的做法，是不是可以來考量？"],["陳局長文瑞：瞭解、瞭解。"],["林委員月琴：好，以上。"],["陳局長文瑞：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林月琴委員發言。","下一位請黃建賓委員發言。黃建賓，黃建賓不在。","陳雪生委員發言。陳雪生棄權。","陳冠廷委員發言。陳冠廷，陳冠廷不在。","請張啓楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":108,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-11","speakers":["陳雪生","林國成","林沛祥","李昆澤","黃建賓","廖先翔","魯明哲","徐富癸","蔡其昌","陳素月","林俊憲","黃健豪","何欣純","邱若華","王鴻薇","游顥","林德福","洪孟楷","黃國昌","林月琴","張啓楷","黃珊珊","黃仁","許智傑","陳冠廷"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2024-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1134101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長王國材「針對台鐵票價上漲暨列車準點率提升作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134101_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152230","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152230","tool":"pyannote","id":"152230-pyannote"},"job_id":"C4V9tIaVIPJr2NXS","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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00:00:41,270\n目前各項法規以基本法為最上位的架構的話都要以人本交通跟我們的用戶安全來作為最高原則來進行各項法規的調修工作可是現在不知道各部的相關的法規的進度跟方向\n\n3\n00:00:42,051 --> 00:00:42,732\n針對於行人安全的保護\n\n4\n00:00:58,288 --> 00:01:16,064\n今天納上我們的國際媒體裡邊講說我們事實上是行人地獄的時候可是目前看起來在目前國內的道路二法我們的市區道路條例跟其工程的設計標準或是公路法的相關規定當中都有要求人行道的一個設置\n\n5\n00:01:17,445 --> 00:01:18,305\n所以再看﹖\n\n6\n00:01:44,051 --> 00:01:45,432\n張安化三姐弟的入口發生案發的地點\n\n7\n00:02:01,909 --> 00:02:02,369\n李卓人議員\n\n8\n00:02:16,664 --> 00:02:16,844\n李慧琼議員\n\n9\n00:02:39,108 --> 00:02:53,876\n這麼快速當然我們去肯認這個快速可是這邊我要提醒的是正如我前面所提的這類型的孤兒道路改善原則上我建議未來都應該以減少衝突點作為核心原則看到左手邊就可以知道有16個衝突點\n\n10\n00:02:55,757 --> 00:03:11,981\n那可是如果採行是MUT的做法的話相當可行可是並沒有這樣採用因為你沒有諮詢到更多的專家學者來採用這種方法雖然這個案子你現在完成了不過我還是要建議未來交通部是不是應該在改善方案當中參採更多的專業意見\n\n11\n00:03:14,222 --> 00:03:24,510\n而不是做了下一次事情又再發生那到底我們有多少人命可以來買單咧那反而你這麼匆忙當中沒有完備的話那基本上沒有辦法解決問題\n\n12\n00:03:28,264 --> 00:03:50,670\n整個端基本的法規規定裡邊整個要調合法規來提升我們的車輛安全所以過去我們的車輛的形式的調合當中N類跟O類一直以來都是用UNECE來做同步可是在L類似乎看起來都存在很多缺口下一頁\n\n13\n00:03:52,550 --> 00:04:09,474\nL4L6L7就是不是在你的調和範圍內所以你排除L4L6L7的一個車型所以會影響國內的民眾權益像L4我一直長期關心兒少安全他用於承載兒童而且他安全性由於現在交通部在討論的用機車兒童機車作業\n\n14\n00:04:12,935 --> 00:04:16,378\n所以在這邊我就主張是不是中央道路主管機關應該儘速一元化重新打造合理的各級\n\n15\n00:04:30,510 --> 00:04:51,907\n道路的法制還有針對我們交通工程的改善是不是要減少衝突點像比如MUT的做法還有車輛的形式是不是禁訴跟國際法規接軌來提供國內民眾使用安全的車輛我不知道這三點局長這邊最後是不是給我一個答覆那如果不行的話是不是在一個月內提出具體的回覆\n\n16\n00:04:52,387 --> 00:05:18,156\n是跟委員報告就是說整個的像公路系統部分的話目前在公路法58條就是說進入到市區道路的話相關的人行道的一些設計標準都是要比照市區道路那另外在路段外的如果是非非都區域的話其實我們公路本身其實也在檢討整整體的斷面比如說有一些的空間路間可以說的話其實我們就可以來偵測人行道所以我想\n\n17\n00:05:18,876 --> 00:05:19,537\n尤其彰化那件事情\n\n18\n00:05:43,277 --> 00:05:43,717\n瞭解瞭解\n\n19\n00:06:14,541 --> 00:06:16,127\n好,謝謝林月琴委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5556\t8161\t陳文瑞 陳局長\n25379\t41270\t目前各項法規以基本法為最上位的架構的話都要以人本交通跟我們的用戶安全來作為最高原則來進行各項法規的調修工作可是現在不知道各部的相關的法規的進度跟方向\n42051\t42732\t針對於行人安全的保護\n58288\t76064\t今天納上我們的國際媒體裡邊講說我們事實上是行人地獄的時候可是目前看起來在目前國內的道路二法我們的市區道路條例跟其工程的設計標準或是公路法的相關規定當中都有要求人行道的一個設置\n77445\t78305\t所以再看﹖\n104051\t105432\t張安化三姐弟的入口發生案發的地點\n121909\t122369\t李卓人議員\n136664\t136844\t李慧琼議員\n159108\t173876\t這麼快速當然我們去肯認這個快速可是這邊我要提醒的是正如我前面所提的這類型的孤兒道路改善原則上我建議未來都應該以減少衝突點作為核心原則看到左手邊就可以知道有16個衝突點\n175757\t191981\t那可是如果採行是MUT的做法的話相當可行可是並沒有這樣採用因為你沒有諮詢到更多的專家學者來採用這種方法雖然這個案子你現在完成了不過我還是要建議未來交通部是不是應該在改善方案當中參採更多的專業意見\n194222\t204510\t而不是做了下一次事情又再發生那到底我們有多少人命可以來買單咧那反而你這麼匆忙當中沒有完備的話那基本上沒有辦法解決問題\n208264\t230670\t整個端基本的法規規定裡邊整個要調合法規來提升我們的車輛安全所以過去我們的車輛的形式的調合當中N類跟O類一直以來都是用UNECE來做同步可是在L類似乎看起來都存在很多缺口下一頁\n232550\t249474\tL4 L6 L7就是不是在你的調和範圍內所以你排除L4 L6 L7的一個車型所以會影響國內的民眾權益像L4我一直長期關心兒少安全他用於承載兒童而且他安全性由於現在交通部在討論的用機車兒童機車作業\n252935\t256378\t所以在這邊我就主張是不是中央道路主管機關應該儘速一元化重新打造合理的各級\n270510\t291907\t道路的法制還有針對我們交通工程的改善是不是要減少衝突點像比如MUT的做法還有車輛的形式是不是禁訴跟國際法規接軌來提供國內民眾使用安全的車輛我不知道這三點局長這邊最後是不是給我一個答覆那如果不行的話是不是在一個月內提出具體的回覆\n292387\t318156\t是跟委員報告就是說整個的像公路系統部分的話目前在公路法58條就是說進入到市區道路的話相關的人行道的一些設計標準都是要比照市區道路那另外在路段外的如果是非非都區域的話其實我們公路本身其實也在檢討整整體的斷面比如說有一些的空間路間可以說的話其實我們就可以來偵測人行道所以我想\n318876\t319537\t尤其彰化那件事情\n343277\t343717\t瞭解 瞭解\n374541\t376127\t好,謝謝林月琴委員發言\n","txt":"陳文瑞 陳局長\n目前各項法規以基本法為最上位的架構的話都要以人本交通跟我們的用戶安全來作為最高原則來進行各項法規的調修工作可是現在不知道各部的相關的法規的進度跟方向\n針對於行人安全的保護\n今天納上我們的國際媒體裡邊講說我們事實上是行人地獄的時候可是目前看起來在目前國內的道路二法我們的市區道路條例跟其工程的設計標準或是公路法的相關規定當中都有要求人行道的一個設置\n所以再看﹖\n張安化三姐弟的入口發生案發的地點\n李卓人議員\n李慧琼議員\n這麼快速當然我們去肯認這個快速可是這邊我要提醒的是正如我前面所提的這類型的孤兒道路改善原則上我建議未來都應該以減少衝突點作為核心原則看到左手邊就可以知道有16個衝突點\n那可是如果採行是MUT的做法的話相當可行可是並沒有這樣採用因為你沒有諮詢到更多的專家學者來採用這種方法雖然這個案子你現在完成了不過我還是要建議未來交通部是不是應該在改善方案當中參採更多的專業意見\n而不是做了下一次事情又再發生那到底我們有多少人命可以來買單咧那反而你這麼匆忙當中沒有完備的話那基本上沒有辦法解決問題\n整個端基本的法規規定裡邊整個要調合法規來提升我們的車輛安全所以過去我們的車輛的形式的調合當中N類跟O類一直以來都是用UNECE來做同步可是在L類似乎看起來都存在很多缺口下一頁\nL4 L6 L7就是不是在你的調和範圍內所以你排除L4 L6 L7的一個車型所以會影響國內的民眾權益像L4我一直長期關心兒少安全他用於承載兒童而且他安全性由於現在交通部在討論的用機車兒童機車作業\n所以在這邊我就主張是不是中央道路主管機關應該儘速一元化重新打造合理的各級\n道路的法制還有針對我們交通工程的改善是不是要減少衝突點像比如MUT的做法還有車輛的形式是不是禁訴跟國際法規接軌來提供國內民眾使用安全的車輛我不知道這三點局長這邊最後是不是給我一個答覆那如果不行的話是不是在一個月內提出具體的回覆\n是跟委員報告就是說整個的像公路系統部分的話目前在公路法58條就是說進入到市區道路的話相關的人行道的一些設計標準都是要比照市區道路那另外在路段外的如果是非非都區域的話其實我們公路本身其實也在檢討整整體的斷面比如說有一些的空間路間可以說的話其實我們就可以來偵測人行道所以我想\n尤其彰化那件事情\n瞭解 瞭解\n好,謝謝林月琴委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.556 --> 00:08.161\n陳文瑞陳局長\n\n00:25.379 --> 00:41.270\n目前各項法規以基本法為最上位的架構的話都要以人本交通跟我們的用戶安全來作為最高原則來進行各項法規的調修工作可是現在不知道各部的相關的法規的進度跟方向\n\n00:42.051 --> 00:42.732\n針對於行人安全的保護\n\n00:58.288 --> 01:16.064\n今天納上我們的國際媒體裡邊講說我們事實上是行人地獄的時候可是目前看起來在目前國內的道路二法我們的市區道路條例跟其工程的設計標準或是公路法的相關規定當中都有要求人行道的一個設置\n\n01:17.445 --> 01:18.305\n所以再看﹖\n\n01:44.051 --> 01:45.432\n張安化三姐弟的入口發生案發的地點\n\n02:01.909 --> 02:02.369\n李卓人議員\n\n02:16.664 --> 02:16.844\n李慧琼議員\n\n02:39.108 --> 02:53.876\n這麼快速當然我們去肯認這個快速可是這邊我要提醒的是正如我前面所提的這類型的孤兒道路改善原則上我建議未來都應該以減少衝突點作為核心原則看到左手邊就可以知道有16個衝突點\n\n02:55.757 --> 03:11.981\n那可是如果採行是MUT的做法的話相當可行可是並沒有這樣採用因為你沒有諮詢到更多的專家學者來採用這種方法雖然這個案子你現在完成了不過我還是要建議未來交通部是不是應該在改善方案當中參採更多的專業意見\n\n03:14.222 --> 03:24.510\n而不是做了下一次事情又再發生那到底我們有多少人命可以來買單咧那反而你這麼匆忙當中沒有完備的話那基本上沒有辦法解決問題\n\n03:28.264 --> 03:50.670\n整個端基本的法規規定裡邊整個要調合法規來提升我們的車輛安全所以過去我們的車輛的形式的調合當中N類跟O類一直以來都是用UNECE來做同步可是在L類似乎看起來都存在很多缺口下一頁\n\n03:52.550 --> 04:09.474\nL4L6L7就是不是在你的調和範圍內所以你排除L4L6L7的一個車型所以會影響國內的民眾權益像L4我一直長期關心兒少安全他用於承載兒童而且他安全性由於現在交通部在討論的用機車兒童機車作業\n\n04:12.935 --> 04:16.378\n所以在這邊我就主張是不是中央道路主管機關應該儘速一元化重新打造合理的各級\n\n04:30.510 --> 04:51.907\n道路的法制還有針對我們交通工程的改善是不是要減少衝突點像比如MUT的做法還有車輛的形式是不是禁訴跟國際法規接軌來提供國內民眾使用安全的車輛我不知道這三點局長這邊最後是不是給我一個答覆那如果不行的話是不是在一個月內提出具體的回覆\n\n04:52.387 --> 05:18.156\n是跟委員報告就是說整個的像公路系統部分的話目前在公路法58條就是說進入到市區道路的話相關的人行道的一些設計標準都是要比照市區道路那另外在路段外的如果是非非都區域的話其實我們公路本身其實也在檢討整整體的斷面比如說有一些的空間路間可以說的話其實我們就可以來偵測人行道所以我想\n\n05:18.876 --> 05:19.537\n尤其彰化那件事情\n\n05:43.277 --> 05:43.717\n瞭解瞭解\n\n06:14.541 --> 06:16.127\n好,謝謝林月琴委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.556,"end":8.161,"text":"陳文瑞 陳局長"},{"start":25.379,"end":41.27,"text":"目前各項法規以基本法為最上位的架構的話都要以人本交通跟我們的用戶安全來作為最高原則來進行各項法規的調修工作可是現在不知道各部的相關的法規的進度跟方向"},{"start":42.051,"end":42.732,"text":"針對於行人安全的保護"},{"start":58.288,"end":76.064,"text":"今天納上我們的國際媒體裡邊講說我們事實上是行人地獄的時候可是目前看起來在目前國內的道路二法我們的市區道路條例跟其工程的設計標準或是公路法的相關規定當中都有要求人行道的一個設置"},{"start":77.445,"end":78.305,"text":"所以再看﹖"},{"start":104.051,"end":105.432,"text":"張安化三姐弟的入口發生案發的地點"},{"start":121.909,"end":122.369,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":136.664,"end":136.844,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":159.108,"end":173.876,"text":"這麼快速當然我們去肯認這個快速可是這邊我要提醒的是正如我前面所提的這類型的孤兒道路改善原則上我建議未來都應該以減少衝突點作為核心原則看到左手邊就可以知道有16個衝突點"},{"start":175.757,"end":191.981,"text":"那可是如果採行是MUT的做法的話相當可行可是並沒有這樣採用因為你沒有諮詢到更多的專家學者來採用這種方法雖然這個案子你現在完成了不過我還是要建議未來交通部是不是應該在改善方案當中參採更多的專業意見"},{"start":194.222,"end":204.51,"text":"而不是做了下一次事情又再發生那到底我們有多少人命可以來買單咧那反而你這麼匆忙當中沒有完備的話那基本上沒有辦法解決問題"},{"start":208.264,"end":230.67,"text":"整個端基本的法規規定裡邊整個要調合法規來提升我們的車輛安全所以過去我們的車輛的形式的調合當中N類跟O類一直以來都是用UNECE來做同步可是在L類似乎看起來都存在很多缺口下一頁"},{"start":232.55,"end":249.474,"text":"L4 L6 L7就是不是在你的調和範圍內所以你排除L4 L6 L7的一個車型所以會影響國內的民眾權益像L4我一直長期關心兒少安全他用於承載兒童而且他安全性由於現在交通部在討論的用機車兒童機車作業"},{"start":252.935,"end":256.378,"text":"所以在這邊我就主張是不是中央道路主管機關應該儘速一元化重新打造合理的各級"},{"start":270.51,"end":291.907,"text":"道路的法制還有針對我們交通工程的改善是不是要減少衝突點像比如MUT的做法還有車輛的形式是不是禁訴跟國際法規接軌來提供國內民眾使用安全的車輛我不知道這三點局長這邊最後是不是給我一個答覆那如果不行的話是不是在一個月內提出具體的回覆"},{"start":292.387,"end":318.156,"text":"是跟委員報告就是說整個的像公路系統部分的話目前在公路法58條就是說進入到市區道路的話相關的人行道的一些設計標準都是要比照市區道路那另外在路段外的如果是非非都區域的話其實我們公路本身其實也在檢討整整體的斷面比如說有一些的空間路間可以說的話其實我們就可以來偵測人行道所以我想"},{"start":318.876,"end":319.537,"text":"尤其彰化那件事情"},{"start":343.277,"end":343.717,"text":"瞭解 瞭解"},{"start":374.541,"end":376.127,"text":"好,謝謝林月琴委員發言"}]}}}}