{"id":152231,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152231","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6319d5f220c85a6819799b5ffa3194eb02d7c7fd8521078531dedd6677c477371614a9641f3446d05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"13:14:41 - 13:21:57","影片長度":"00:07:16","會議時間":"2024-05-06T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長王國材「針對台鐵票價上漲暨列車準點率提升作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-06","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-11"},"duration":436,"end_time":"2024-05-06T13:21:57+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-06T13:14:41+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":694,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（13時14分）請部長和杜微杜董事長。"],["主席：好，杜董。"],["杜董事長微：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：還有請次長，不好意思，次長跟杜董事長。","謝謝主席。次長和董事長，3月25日我就問你們部長說，臺鐵和高鐵漲價都是下半年的事嘛！他那天說是，大家在這邊都有聽到對不對？可是這幾天我看到網路上在傳520可能就要漲了。我剛剛有聽你們講了啦，所以今天就確定，不只520前後都不會漲，下半年才會討論這個案子，對不對？那我們比較具體化，來，我們具體化！","其實要漲價一定要經過你們提出票價合理化方案嘛！對不對？董事會通過，臺鐵方面也通過，才會送到交通部，交通部會召開費率審議會。請問目前為止到什麼進度？杜董事長，你們票價合理化方案送出來了嗎？還沒？"],["杜董事長微：沒有。"],["張委員啓楷：還沒哦？"],["杜董事長微：還沒有，我們……"],["張委員啓楷：所以今天已經很明確了，全民都可以安心。"],["杜董事長微：我們的經理部門還在研議。"],["張委員啓楷：今天全臺灣民眾都可以安心，從第一步都還沒踩出來嘛！對不對？臺鐵票價合理化方案還沒有出來，所以這是非常明確的，全民都可以放心了。","第二個我就要問了啊！大概預定什麼時候會送？下半年大概什麼時候？有確定嗎？"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告，因為現在我們是公司，所以這個案子經理部門研議出來以後要董事會通過，我們董事會通過以後才能報部，所以確定的期程我現在沒有辦法……"],["張委員啓楷：我們問政是非常理性的，每一個步驟都很清楚，你第一步沒跨出去，我們清楚地跟大家講說你們沒跨出去，可是有跨出去、到哪一個時間點，我們都要非常明確。你們第一步現在沒跨嘛！就等……"],["杜董事長微：按照我們現在公司的運作還算上軌道，應該是下半年、差不多第3季以後。"],["張委員啓楷：下半年、第3季是什麼時候？"],["杜董事長微：9月。"],["張委員啓楷：好，記起來，9月會送。","照這樣說的話，很好啊！9月……"],["杜董事長微：報告委員，我是指董事會都通過。"],["張委員啓楷：喔！所以臺鐵董事會通過是9月的事情了啦！9月或者10月送到交通部嘛？好不好？今天說的這個時間點應該是最明確的。","談完這個時間，我們來談漲價的幅度。這個幅度很大耶！29年沒漲固然沒有錯，可是吃飯也要慢慢吃啊！像爬階梯一步一步上來啊！你們怎麼像沖天炮「砰」一下，29年沒調，一次就要調到位，而且你們現在提出3個案子，合理報酬率分別是3%、4%、5%，先balance就好了啊！可不可以慢慢來？可以嗎？這個幅度很嚇人耶！報酬率3%要漲到35.62%，4%要40.41%，5%要44.52%，太高了啦！可不可以低一點？幅度漲少一點！"],["胡次長湘麟：報告委員，我前面跟其他委員回答的是，這是我們試算過程中，把3%、4%、5%放進去計算可能的結果，但是最後的方案還沒有研擬，因為這些試算的結果還得考慮一些其他的條件……"],["張委員啓楷：對、對、對。"],["胡次長湘麟：所以這個還不算方案。"],["張委員啓楷：次長，所以你們現在用的3%、4%、5%，其中最低的是3%，其實3%也很高耶！這有兩個解決方式，第一個是從3%再降一點點，第二個就是分年分梯，就是我說的像爬樓梯，不要29年沒吃飯，一次吃那麼多，我跟你說，這樣會脹死！是不是這樣？我們以前讀書，杜甫是不是就這樣？好不好？可不可以不要像沖天炮那樣，29年沒漲，一下子全部都上來？分年分梯，考慮一下，好不好？"],["胡次長湘麟：好。"],["張委員啓楷：把這個納入一個很重要的考量。不然老實說，你看這個幅度喔！臺北到高雄的自強號如果一次要這樣漲，一下子要漲300塊，一般民眾聽到自強號一下子漲300塊也是很嚇人啊！而且漲完之後，我看其他同仁剛剛也在問，這樣已經接近高鐵的自由座的票價了耶！你這樣有競爭力嗎？杜董事長，這個都要考慮進去，好不好？第一個，不要一下子讓民眾覺得好像漲太多，第二個，也不要讓民眾覺得好像馬上跟高鐵一樣，這樣可能競爭力也會有問題。","另外，我問一個高鐵的事情，政府是高鐵的最大股東，高鐵票價下半年也會漲嗎？"],["胡次長湘麟：今年沒有提到任何票價要漲的……"],["張委員啓楷：好，這也是個好消息。高鐵沒有要漲喔！此話當真？次長。"],["胡次長湘麟：我們到現在為止，沒有收到任何有關高鐵票價要漲的訊息。"],["張委員啓楷：OK，所以很有可能下半年也不見得會漲。","我們最後來談一個比較對物價的影響的問題。大家看我這個圖，這對政府跟人民來說其實很重要，臺鐵29年沒有漲，大家不會說不合理到叫它不要漲，可是你要注意那個時間點，不要造成雙颱效應。因為老實說，只要電價漲完之後，任何的漲價都會變成雙颱效應，尤其大眾運輸又很重要，臺鐵如果再加進來就變成漲價火車頭了耶。","你看這個圖，我剛剛講了，左邊這個漲電價，通勤交通的這個價格如果一漲的話，那就非常不得了了。然後現在更嚴重了，我們臺灣最近開始通膨了，物價已經上漲了，對不對？實質的薪資還倒退，這四個東西加在一起對臺灣的發展是不好的。既然是國營事業，我們人在公門好修行嘛！我們要做好事情對不對？所以一定要注意。一個就是我剛剛講的，不要沖天炮，要分梯來、慢慢來，我們有可以解決的方式。","第二，還有一個解決的方案，時間點往後一點點。有兩個很重要的，我要提醒大家，第一個，雖然4月1號就漲了電價對不對？可是你什麼時候會收到帳單（電費單）？6月嘛！第二個，還有一個更嚴重的喔！6、7、8、9夏季電價都來了，對不對？所以我拜託一下，臺鐵真的要調價，就像我剛才講的，至少、至少一定要在10月以後才開始討論，好不好？如果可以，10月開始討論，就是剛才講的9月送，10月才開始討論，避開剛剛講到電費的漲價，然後最好、最好是明年再漲。","今天我們的主席講了2次很英明的話，陳雪生說不要雪上加霜，好不好？不要雪上加霜。"],["主席：謝謝啦、謝謝啦！"],["張委員啓楷：所以拜託一下，我們也跟主席講的一樣，不要雪上加霜，不要讓雙颱效應聚在一起，不然對人民衝擊太大，儘可能10月以後，甚至可能的話，延到明年好不好？一起來努力好不好？好，謝謝次長，也謝謝董事長。"],["主席：謝謝張啓楷委員。"],["張委員啓楷：謝謝不要雪上加霜的主席，感謝、謝謝大家。"],["主席：謝謝張啓楷委員的發言。","下面請顏寬恒委員發言，顏寬恒、顏寬恒，不在。","賴士葆委員發言，賴士葆、賴士葆，不在。","陳培瑜委員發言，陳培瑜、陳培瑜，不在。","陳俊宇委員發言，陳俊宇、陳俊宇，不在。","登記質詢委員均已發言完畢，作以下的決定：一、報告及詢答完畢；二、委員黃珊珊、黃仁、黃建賓、許智傑、陳冠廷所提書面質詢列入紀錄並刊登公報；三、委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面諮詢或未及答復部分，請交通部儘速以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":108,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-11","speakers":["陳雪生","林國成","林沛祥","李昆澤","黃建賓","廖先翔","魯明哲","徐富癸","蔡其昌","陳素月","林俊憲","黃健豪","何欣純","邱若華","王鴻薇","游顥","林德福","洪孟楷","黃國昌","林月琴","張啓楷","黃珊珊","黃仁","許智傑","陳冠廷"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2024-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1134101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長王國材「針對台鐵票價上漲暨列車準點率提升作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134101_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152231","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152231","tool":"pyannote","id":"152231-pyannote"},"job_id":"yJQ3SKDEklnpetUn","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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\"end\": 410.578, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 410.578, \"end\": 410.598, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"啓\"}, {\"word\": \"楷\", \"start\": 411.358, \"end\": 412.018, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 412.018, \"end\": 412.098, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 412.098, \"end\": 412.118, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,591 --> 00:00:07,672\n市長跟杜董事長\n\n2\n00:00:24,290 --> 00:00:26,431\n主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席\n\n3\n00:00:40,658 --> 00:00:58,644\n不過今天早上我剛有聽你們講的啦所以我們今天就確定不只520前後不會漲下半年才會討論這個案子對不對那我們比較具體化來我們具體化其實要漲價一定要經過你們提這個票價合理方案嘛對不對啊當時我會過台鐵這邊過才送到交通部嘛\n\n4\n00:01:00,020 --> 00:01:26,228\n政府會開這個費力的審議會嘛到目前為止到什麼進度杜董事長你們那個案子票價合理化方案還沒上座還沒還沒有所以今天很明確的今天全民都可以安心先全台灣民眾都可以安心從第一步都還沒踩出來嘛對不對所以台鐵案子票價合理化還沒出來所以我們是非常明確的全民都可以放心了那第一個我要問的啊\n\n5\n00:01:27,148 --> 00:01:29,634\n大概預定什麼時候會送?下半年大概什麼時候?\n\n6\n00:01:32,392 --> 00:01:56,392\n這個幹委員報告因為現在我們公司嘛所以這案子經理部門一出來以後要董事會通過我們董事會通過以後才能報布所以確定的期程我現在沒有辦法跟委員你看我問這個是非常理性的每一個步驟都很清楚你第一步沒跨出去我們清楚跟他講說你沒跨出去可是有跨出去到哪一個時間點我們都要非常明確第一步現在沒跨嘛就等\n\n7\n00:01:58,954 --> 00:02:11,161\n應該照我們現在公司的運作還算上軌道應該是下半年的差不多第三季以後下半年第三季下半年第三季是什麼時候\n\n8\n00:02:15,487 --> 00:02:18,149\n今天這個時間點應該是最明確的那我們談完這個10千我們再談漲價的這個幅度\n\n9\n00:02:41,698 --> 00:02:49,993\n這幅度很大耶你只要九年沒去沒問題啦吃飯你要慢慢吃啊像爬階梯一步一步上來啊你怎麼像充電棒碰一下\n\n10\n00:02:50,987 --> 00:02:51,107\n張啓楷議員：張啓楷\n\n11\n00:03:16,115 --> 00:03:41,096\n報告委員我前面跟其他委員回答是這個您算出來這個是我們是在試算過程中在計算放進去3%、4%、5%我們再計算可能結果但是最後的方案還沒有還沒有研擬因為這些試算的結果還得要考慮其他的一些條件所以這個還不算方案市長所以你要提3、4、5嘛統計就3%3%也很高耶\n\n12\n00:03:45,835 --> 00:04:12,142\n有兩個要我奉行嘛第一個從3%再降一點點那第二個就是分聯分梯的我剛才說的那被人家推啦你不是說你沒吃飯吃那麼多你重視我你說對不對是不是這樣我們以前在台下那個水渡浮是不是就是這樣子好不好可不可以不要沖天泡這樣一下29連美漲全部都上來分聯分梯考慮一下好不好把這個納入一個很重要的考量我剛才說你看你看這個幅度喔\n\n13\n00:04:13,083 --> 00:04:27,866\n你看那個台北到高雄那個自強號你如果一次要這樣漲一下要漲300塊欸一般民眾聽到自強號一下漲300塊也是很嚇人啊而且你漲完之後我看其他同仁剛剛也在問啊你是接近那個高鐵的那個自由座的欸\n\n14\n00:04:29,386 --> 00:04:57,565\n你這樣有競爭力嗎?杜董事長這個都要考慮好不好第一個不要一下子讓民眾覺得說好像漲太多然後第二個也不要讓民眾覺得說好像一下子你要馬上跟高鐵高鐵在一樣你這樣可能競爭力也有問題啦你我問一下高鐵的事情好不好高鐵你們政府是最大股東嘛高鐵下半年會漲嗎?今年沒有任何提到票價要漲的喔這也是個好消息喔各地會不會去齁有齁當真\n\n15\n00:04:59,716 --> 00:05:27,788\n此話當真?次長我們到現在為止沒有說到任何有關於高鐵票價要漲的事所以很有可能下半年也不見得會漲啦OK來我們最後來談一個比較談物價的影響的問題大家看我這個圖現在其實對政府跟對人民來說很重要就是說高鐵29台鐵29年沒有漲大家不會說不合理到說將要不要漲可是你要注意那個時間點\n\n16\n00:05:29,514 --> 00:05:34,418\n臺鐵又一百個變漲價的火車頭你看這個圖我剛剛講的左邊這個漲電價通勤交通的這個價格如果一漲的話那就非常不得了然後現在更嚴重了臺灣最近開始通膨物價已經上漲了對不對實質的薪資還倒退\n\n17\n00:05:57,054 --> 00:06:17,599\n這四個名字加起來對台北的發展是不好的啊既然是國營事業啊我們人在關門好休閒嘛不然怎麼做好事情對不對所以一定要注意一個就是我剛剛講不要沖天炮分梯來沒有沒有那有改觀的方式第二還有一個解決的方案時間點往後一點點齁有兩個很重要我提醒大家了第一雖然事業一躍就漲了電價對不對可是人家是想要消頓電費單六月嘛那第二個還有一個更更嚴重的齁\n\n18\n00:06:27,411 --> 00:06:50,598\n6、7、8、9,夏季電價都來對不對所以我拜託一下,台鐵真的要調節,我們剛才講的至少至少,一定要在10月以後才開始討論好不好讓人家可以稍微開始討論,剛才講的,到未來稍微開始討論避開剛剛講的這個電費的這個漲價然後讓最好最好明年以後再去今天我們的主席講了很英明的話講了兩次陳雪生說不要雪上加霜好不好\n\n19\n00:06:51,358 --> 00:06:52,118\n謝謝張啓楷委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5591\t7672\t市長跟杜董事長\n24290\t26431\t主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席\n40658\t58644\t不過今天早上我剛有聽你們講的啦所以我們今天就確定不只520前後不會漲下半年才會討論這個案子對不對那我們比較具體化來我們具體化其實要漲價一定要經過你們提這個票價合理方案嘛對不對啊當時我會過台鐵這邊過才送到交通部嘛\n60020\t86228\t政府會開這個費力的審議會嘛到目前為止到什麼進度杜董事長你們那個案子票價合理化方案還沒上座還沒還沒有所以今天很明確的今天全民都可以安心先全台灣民眾都可以安心從第一步都還沒踩出來嘛對不對所以台鐵案子票價合理化還沒出來所以我們是非常明確的全民都可以放心了那第一個我要問的啊\n87148\t89634\t大概預定什麼時候會送?下半年大概什麼時候?\n92392\t116392\t這個幹委員報告因為現在我們公司嘛所以這案子經理部門一出來以後要董事會通過我們董事會通過以後才能報布所以確定的期程我現在沒有辦法跟委員你看我問這個是非常理性的每一個步驟都很清楚你第一步沒跨出去我們清楚跟他講說你沒跨出去可是有跨出去到哪一個時間點我們都要非常明確第一步現在沒跨嘛就等\n118954\t131161\t應該照我們現在公司的運作還算上軌道應該是下半年的差不多第三季以後下半年第三季下半年第三季是什麼時候\n135487\t138149\t今天這個時間點應該是最明確的那我們談完這個10千我們再談漲價的這個幅度\n161698\t169993\t這幅度很大耶你只要九年沒去沒問題啦吃飯你要慢慢吃啊像爬階梯一步一步上來啊你怎麼像充電棒碰一下\n170987\t171107\t張啓楷議員：張啓楷\n196115\t221096\t報告委員我前面跟其他委員回答是這個您算出來這個是我們是在試算過程中在計算放進去3%、4%、5%我們再計算可能結果但是最後的方案還沒有還沒有研擬因為這些試算的結果還得要考慮其他的一些條件所以這個還不算方案市長所以你要提3、4、5嘛統計就3%3%也很高耶\n225835\t252142\t有兩個要我奉行嘛第一個從3%再降一點點那第二個就是分聯分梯的我剛才說的那被人家推啦你不是說你沒吃飯吃那麼多你重視我你說對不對是不是這樣我們以前在台下那個水渡浮是不是就是這樣子好不好可不可以不要沖天泡這樣一下29連美漲全部都上來分聯分梯考慮一下好不好把這個納入一個很重要的考量我剛才說你看你看這個幅度喔\n253083\t267866\t你看那個台北到高雄那個自強號你如果一次要這樣漲一下要漲300塊欸一般民眾聽到自強號一下漲300塊也是很嚇人啊而且你漲完之後我看其他同仁剛剛也在問啊你是接近那個高鐵的那個自由座的欸\n269386\t297565\t你這樣有競爭力嗎?杜董事長這個都要考慮好不好第一個不要一下子讓民眾覺得說好像漲太多然後第二個也不要讓民眾覺得說好像一下子你要馬上跟高鐵高鐵在一樣你這樣可能競爭力也有問題啦你我問一下高鐵的事情好不好高鐵你們政府是最大股東嘛高鐵下半年會漲嗎?今年沒有任何提到票價要漲的喔這也是個好消息喔各地會不會去齁有齁當真\n299716\t327788\t此話當真?次長我們到現在為止沒有說到任何有關於高鐵票價要漲的事所以很有可能下半年也不見得會漲啦OK來我們最後來談一個比較談物價的影響的問題大家看我這個圖現在其實對政府跟對人民來說很重要就是說高鐵29台鐵29年沒有漲大家不會說不合理到說將要不要漲可是你要注意那個時間點\n329514\t334418\t臺鐵又一百個變漲價的火車頭你看這個圖我剛剛講的左邊這個漲電價通勤交通的這個價格如果一漲的話那就非常不得了然後現在更嚴重了臺灣最近開始通膨物價已經上漲了對不對實質的薪資還倒退\n357054\t377599\t這四個名字加起來對台北的發展是不好的啊既然是國營事業啊我們人在關門好休閒嘛不然怎麼做好事情對不對所以一定要注意一個就是我剛剛講不要沖天炮分梯來沒有沒有那有改觀的方式第二還有一個解決的方案時間點往後一點點齁有兩個很重要我提醒大家了第一雖然事業一躍就漲了電價對不對可是人家是想要消頓電費單六月嘛那第二個還有一個更更嚴重的齁\n387411\t410598\t6、7、8、9,夏季電價都來對不對所以我拜託一下,台鐵真的要調節,我們剛才講的至少至少,一定要在10月以後才開始討論好不好讓人家可以稍微開始討論,剛才講的,到未來稍微開始討論避開剛剛講的這個電費的這個漲價然後讓最好最好明年以後再去今天我們的主席講了很英明的話講了兩次陳雪生說不要雪上加霜好不好\n411358\t412118\t謝謝張啓楷委員發言\n","txt":"市長跟杜董事長\n主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席\n不過今天早上我剛有聽你們講的啦所以我們今天就確定不只520前後不會漲下半年才會討論這個案子對不對那我們比較具體化來我們具體化其實要漲價一定要經過你們提這個票價合理方案嘛對不對啊當時我會過台鐵這邊過才送到交通部嘛\n政府會開這個費力的審議會嘛到目前為止到什麼進度杜董事長你們那個案子票價合理化方案還沒上座還沒還沒有所以今天很明確的今天全民都可以安心先全台灣民眾都可以安心從第一步都還沒踩出來嘛對不對所以台鐵案子票價合理化還沒出來所以我們是非常明確的全民都可以放心了那第一個我要問的啊\n大概預定什麼時候會送?下半年大概什麼時候?\n這個幹委員報告因為現在我們公司嘛所以這案子經理部門一出來以後要董事會通過我們董事會通過以後才能報布所以確定的期程我現在沒有辦法跟委員你看我問這個是非常理性的每一個步驟都很清楚你第一步沒跨出去我們清楚跟他講說你沒跨出去可是有跨出去到哪一個時間點我們都要非常明確第一步現在沒跨嘛就等\n應該照我們現在公司的運作還算上軌道應該是下半年的差不多第三季以後下半年第三季下半年第三季是什麼時候\n今天這個時間點應該是最明確的那我們談完這個10千我們再談漲價的這個幅度\n這幅度很大耶你只要九年沒去沒問題啦吃飯你要慢慢吃啊像爬階梯一步一步上來啊你怎麼像充電棒碰一下\n張啓楷議員：張啓楷\n報告委員我前面跟其他委員回答是這個您算出來這個是我們是在試算過程中在計算放進去3%、4%、5%我們再計算可能結果但是最後的方案還沒有還沒有研擬因為這些試算的結果還得要考慮其他的一些條件所以這個還不算方案市長所以你要提3、4、5嘛統計就3%3%也很高耶\n有兩個要我奉行嘛第一個從3%再降一點點那第二個就是分聯分梯的我剛才說的那被人家推啦你不是說你沒吃飯吃那麼多你重視我你說對不對是不是這樣我們以前在台下那個水渡浮是不是就是這樣子好不好可不可以不要沖天泡這樣一下29連美漲全部都上來分聯分梯考慮一下好不好把這個納入一個很重要的考量我剛才說你看你看這個幅度喔\n你看那個台北到高雄那個自強號你如果一次要這樣漲一下要漲300塊欸一般民眾聽到自強號一下漲300塊也是很嚇人啊而且你漲完之後我看其他同仁剛剛也在問啊你是接近那個高鐵的那個自由座的欸\n你這樣有競爭力嗎?杜董事長這個都要考慮好不好第一個不要一下子讓民眾覺得說好像漲太多然後第二個也不要讓民眾覺得說好像一下子你要馬上跟高鐵高鐵在一樣你這樣可能競爭力也有問題啦你我問一下高鐵的事情好不好高鐵你們政府是最大股東嘛高鐵下半年會漲嗎?今年沒有任何提到票價要漲的喔這也是個好消息喔各地會不會去齁有齁當真\n此話當真?次長我們到現在為止沒有說到任何有關於高鐵票價要漲的事所以很有可能下半年也不見得會漲啦OK來我們最後來談一個比較談物價的影響的問題大家看我這個圖現在其實對政府跟對人民來說很重要就是說高鐵29台鐵29年沒有漲大家不會說不合理到說將要不要漲可是你要注意那個時間點\n臺鐵又一百個變漲價的火車頭你看這個圖我剛剛講的左邊這個漲電價通勤交通的這個價格如果一漲的話那就非常不得了然後現在更嚴重了臺灣最近開始通膨物價已經上漲了對不對實質的薪資還倒退\n這四個名字加起來對台北的發展是不好的啊既然是國營事業啊我們人在關門好休閒嘛不然怎麼做好事情對不對所以一定要注意一個就是我剛剛講不要沖天炮分梯來沒有沒有那有改觀的方式第二還有一個解決的方案時間點往後一點點齁有兩個很重要我提醒大家了第一雖然事業一躍就漲了電價對不對可是人家是想要消頓電費單六月嘛那第二個還有一個更更嚴重的齁\n6、7、8、9,夏季電價都來對不對所以我拜託一下,台鐵真的要調節,我們剛才講的至少至少,一定要在10月以後才開始討論好不好讓人家可以稍微開始討論,剛才講的,到未來稍微開始討論避開剛剛講的這個電費的這個漲價然後讓最好最好明年以後再去今天我們的主席講了很英明的話講了兩次陳雪生說不要雪上加霜好不好\n謝謝張啓楷委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.591 --> 00:07.672\n市長跟杜董事長\n\n00:24.290 --> 00:26.431\n主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席\n\n00:40.658 --> 00:58.644\n不過今天早上我剛有聽你們講的啦所以我們今天就確定不只520前後不會漲下半年才會討論這個案子對不對那我們比較具體化來我們具體化其實要漲價一定要經過你們提這個票價合理方案嘛對不對啊當時我會過台鐵這邊過才送到交通部嘛\n\n01:00.020 --> 01:26.228\n政府會開這個費力的審議會嘛到目前為止到什麼進度杜董事長你們那個案子票價合理化方案還沒上座還沒還沒有所以今天很明確的今天全民都可以安心先全台灣民眾都可以安心從第一步都還沒踩出來嘛對不對所以台鐵案子票價合理化還沒出來所以我們是非常明確的全民都可以放心了那第一個我要問的啊\n\n01:27.148 --> 01:29.634\n大概預定什麼時候會送?下半年大概什麼時候?\n\n01:32.392 --> 01:56.392\n這個幹委員報告因為現在我們公司嘛所以這案子經理部門一出來以後要董事會通過我們董事會通過以後才能報布所以確定的期程我現在沒有辦法跟委員你看我問這個是非常理性的每一個步驟都很清楚你第一步沒跨出去我們清楚跟他講說你沒跨出去可是有跨出去到哪一個時間點我們都要非常明確第一步現在沒跨嘛就等\n\n01:58.954 --> 02:11.161\n應該照我們現在公司的運作還算上軌道應該是下半年的差不多第三季以後下半年第三季下半年第三季是什麼時候\n\n02:15.487 --> 02:18.149\n今天這個時間點應該是最明確的那我們談完這個10千我們再談漲價的這個幅度\n\n02:41.698 --> 02:49.993\n這幅度很大耶你只要九年沒去沒問題啦吃飯你要慢慢吃啊像爬階梯一步一步上來啊你怎麼像充電棒碰一下\n\n02:50.987 --> 02:51.107\n張啓楷議員：張啓楷\n\n03:16.115 --> 03:41.096\n報告委員我前面跟其他委員回答是這個您算出來這個是我們是在試算過程中在計算放進去3%、4%、5%我們再計算可能結果但是最後的方案還沒有還沒有研擬因為這些試算的結果還得要考慮其他的一些條件所以這個還不算方案市長所以你要提3、4、5嘛統計就3%3%也很高耶\n\n03:45.835 --> 04:12.142\n有兩個要我奉行嘛第一個從3%再降一點點那第二個就是分聯分梯的我剛才說的那被人家推啦你不是說你沒吃飯吃那麼多你重視我你說對不對是不是這樣我們以前在台下那個水渡浮是不是就是這樣子好不好可不可以不要沖天泡這樣一下29連美漲全部都上來分聯分梯考慮一下好不好把這個納入一個很重要的考量我剛才說你看你看這個幅度喔\n\n04:13.083 --> 04:27.866\n你看那個台北到高雄那個自強號你如果一次要這樣漲一下要漲300塊欸一般民眾聽到自強號一下漲300塊也是很嚇人啊而且你漲完之後我看其他同仁剛剛也在問啊你是接近那個高鐵的那個自由座的欸\n\n04:29.386 --> 04:57.565\n你這樣有競爭力嗎?杜董事長這個都要考慮好不好第一個不要一下子讓民眾覺得說好像漲太多然後第二個也不要讓民眾覺得說好像一下子你要馬上跟高鐵高鐵在一樣你這樣可能競爭力也有問題啦你我問一下高鐵的事情好不好高鐵你們政府是最大股東嘛高鐵下半年會漲嗎?今年沒有任何提到票價要漲的喔這也是個好消息喔各地會不會去齁有齁當真\n\n04:59.716 --> 05:27.788\n此話當真?次長我們到現在為止沒有說到任何有關於高鐵票價要漲的事所以很有可能下半年也不見得會漲啦OK來我們最後來談一個比較談物價的影響的問題大家看我這個圖現在其實對政府跟對人民來說很重要就是說高鐵29台鐵29年沒有漲大家不會說不合理到說將要不要漲可是你要注意那個時間點\n\n05:29.514 --> 05:34.418\n臺鐵又一百個變漲價的火車頭你看這個圖我剛剛講的左邊這個漲電價通勤交通的這個價格如果一漲的話那就非常不得了然後現在更嚴重了臺灣最近開始通膨物價已經上漲了對不對實質的薪資還倒退\n\n05:57.054 --> 06:17.599\n這四個名字加起來對台北的發展是不好的啊既然是國營事業啊我們人在關門好休閒嘛不然怎麼做好事情對不對所以一定要注意一個就是我剛剛講不要沖天炮分梯來沒有沒有那有改觀的方式第二還有一個解決的方案時間點往後一點點齁有兩個很重要我提醒大家了第一雖然事業一躍就漲了電價對不對可是人家是想要消頓電費單六月嘛那第二個還有一個更更嚴重的齁\n\n06:27.411 --> 06:50.598\n6、7、8、9,夏季電價都來對不對所以我拜託一下,台鐵真的要調節,我們剛才講的至少至少,一定要在10月以後才開始討論好不好讓人家可以稍微開始討論,剛才講的,到未來稍微開始討論避開剛剛講的這個電費的這個漲價然後讓最好最好明年以後再去今天我們的主席講了很英明的話講了兩次陳雪生說不要雪上加霜好不好\n\n06:51.358 --> 06:52.118\n謝謝張啓楷委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.591,"end":7.672,"text":"市長跟杜董事長"},{"start":24.29,"end":26.431,"text":"主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席、主席"},{"start":40.658,"end":58.644,"text":"不過今天早上我剛有聽你們講的啦所以我們今天就確定不只520前後不會漲下半年才會討論這個案子對不對那我們比較具體化來我們具體化其實要漲價一定要經過你們提這個票價合理方案嘛對不對啊當時我會過台鐵這邊過才送到交通部嘛"},{"start":60.02,"end":86.228,"text":"政府會開這個費力的審議會嘛到目前為止到什麼進度杜董事長你們那個案子票價合理化方案還沒上座還沒還沒有所以今天很明確的今天全民都可以安心先全台灣民眾都可以安心從第一步都還沒踩出來嘛對不對所以台鐵案子票價合理化還沒出來所以我們是非常明確的全民都可以放心了那第一個我要問的啊"},{"start":87.148,"end":89.634,"text":"大概預定什麼時候會送?下半年大概什麼時候?"},{"start":92.392,"end":116.392,"text":"這個幹委員報告因為現在我們公司嘛所以這案子經理部門一出來以後要董事會通過我們董事會通過以後才能報布所以確定的期程我現在沒有辦法跟委員你看我問這個是非常理性的每一個步驟都很清楚你第一步沒跨出去我們清楚跟他講說你沒跨出去可是有跨出去到哪一個時間點我們都要非常明確第一步現在沒跨嘛就等"},{"start":118.954,"end":131.161,"text":"應該照我們現在公司的運作還算上軌道應該是下半年的差不多第三季以後下半年第三季下半年第三季是什麼時候"},{"start":135.487,"end":138.149,"text":"今天這個時間點應該是最明確的那我們談完這個10千我們再談漲價的這個幅度"},{"start":161.698,"end":169.993,"text":"這幅度很大耶你只要九年沒去沒問題啦吃飯你要慢慢吃啊像爬階梯一步一步上來啊你怎麼像充電棒碰一下"},{"start":170.987,"end":171.107,"text":"張啓楷議員：張啓楷"},{"start":196.115,"end":221.096,"text":"報告委員我前面跟其他委員回答是這個您算出來這個是我們是在試算過程中在計算放進去3%、4%、5%我們再計算可能結果但是最後的方案還沒有還沒有研擬因為這些試算的結果還得要考慮其他的一些條件所以這個還不算方案市長所以你要提3、4、5嘛統計就3%3%也很高耶"},{"start":225.835,"end":252.142,"text":"有兩個要我奉行嘛第一個從3%再降一點點那第二個就是分聯分梯的我剛才說的那被人家推啦你不是說你沒吃飯吃那麼多你重視我你說對不對是不是這樣我們以前在台下那個水渡浮是不是就是這樣子好不好可不可以不要沖天泡這樣一下29連美漲全部都上來分聯分梯考慮一下好不好把這個納入一個很重要的考量我剛才說你看你看這個幅度喔"},{"start":253.083,"end":267.866,"text":"你看那個台北到高雄那個自強號你如果一次要這樣漲一下要漲300塊欸一般民眾聽到自強號一下漲300塊也是很嚇人啊而且你漲完之後我看其他同仁剛剛也在問啊你是接近那個高鐵的那個自由座的欸"},{"start":269.386,"end":297.565,"text":"你這樣有競爭力嗎?杜董事長這個都要考慮好不好第一個不要一下子讓民眾覺得說好像漲太多然後第二個也不要讓民眾覺得說好像一下子你要馬上跟高鐵高鐵在一樣你這樣可能競爭力也有問題啦你我問一下高鐵的事情好不好高鐵你們政府是最大股東嘛高鐵下半年會漲嗎?今年沒有任何提到票價要漲的喔這也是個好消息喔各地會不會去齁有齁當真"},{"start":299.716,"end":327.788,"text":"此話當真?次長我們到現在為止沒有說到任何有關於高鐵票價要漲的事所以很有可能下半年也不見得會漲啦OK來我們最後來談一個比較談物價的影響的問題大家看我這個圖現在其實對政府跟對人民來說很重要就是說高鐵29台鐵29年沒有漲大家不會說不合理到說將要不要漲可是你要注意那個時間點"},{"start":329.514,"end":334.418,"text":"臺鐵又一百個變漲價的火車頭你看這個圖我剛剛講的左邊這個漲電價通勤交通的這個價格如果一漲的話那就非常不得了然後現在更嚴重了臺灣最近開始通膨物價已經上漲了對不對實質的薪資還倒退"},{"start":357.054,"end":377.599,"text":"這四個名字加起來對台北的發展是不好的啊既然是國營事業啊我們人在關門好休閒嘛不然怎麼做好事情對不對所以一定要注意一個就是我剛剛講不要沖天炮分梯來沒有沒有那有改觀的方式第二還有一個解決的方案時間點往後一點點齁有兩個很重要我提醒大家了第一雖然事業一躍就漲了電價對不對可是人家是想要消頓電費單六月嘛那第二個還有一個更更嚴重的齁"},{"start":387.411,"end":410.598,"text":"6、7、8、9,夏季電價都來對不對所以我拜託一下,台鐵真的要調節,我們剛才講的至少至少,一定要在10月以後才開始討論好不好讓人家可以稍微開始討論,剛才講的,到未來稍微開始討論避開剛剛講的這個電費的這個漲價然後讓最好最好明年以後再去今天我們的主席講了很英明的話講了兩次陳雪生說不要雪上加霜好不好"},{"start":411.358,"end":412.118,"text":"謝謝張啓楷委員發言"}]}}}}