{"id":152259,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152259","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9fa9bc2102b9cf716a02f6cf4f07b6cb6811336f4541176936499d1b681a2ac7aa518cd20a1dc6235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:27:04 - 09:38:22","影片長度":"00:11:18","會議時間":"2024-05-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席就「回首百年放眼未來-故宮定位與部會級博物館公共責任總檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-08","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-11"},"duration":678,"end_time":"2024-05-08T09:38:22+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-08T09:27:04+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":176,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時27分）謝謝召委，我們是不是請蕭院長？"],["主席：好，有請蕭院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：柯委員早。"],["柯委員志恩：蕭院長早，剛剛萬委員特別問到了有關於新內閣的新生訓練沒有看到你的蹤影，你剛剛回復說沒有被正式徵詢，那私下有徵詢嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：私下耳語很多。"],["柯委員志恩：私下耳語很多，所以基本上應該留任的機率是蠻高的，我現在覺得故宮真的是被我們卓院長跟賴總統給忘掉了，但是我們都不會忘掉故宮，故宮是我們的最愛，也是很多國人的最愛，也就是因為這樣子，所以我想今天會有很多人問你有關於翠玉白菜的事情。你看照片這個動作真的好像在簽收快遞一樣，你剛剛特別提到了翠玉白菜，當然你們有自己的SOP，而且你剛剛說到了，三面都是玻璃，已經做好非常好的防護，對不對？院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["柯委員志恩：所以發現他們兩個才是最大的破口，三面全部都防護好了，他們在這旁邊就像簽快遞一樣，我覺得把這張照片放出去，真的非常令人震撼，而且我也絕對相信不會只有這一次，他們一定常常這樣做，所以才會馬上捕捉到這樣的一個鏡頭。院長，有沒有可能？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，因為他們是在做工作紀錄，因為沒有人會在那個工作間隨便拍照，他們做工作紀錄，為了呈現他們簽署的翠玉白菜……"],["柯委員志恩：我告訴你啦，你這種方式就是完全不對的，一定是有人看不下去啦！"],["蕭院長宗煌：我知道、我知道不對……"],["柯委員志恩：院長，除了這件事情，我想等一下一定有非常多……，你最好有一個說法，對我個人來說，他們兩個站在那邊簽署公文就是對翠玉白菜最大的一個破口，不要告訴我距離有多遠，還是安全範圍，你這種說法沒有辦法說服其他……"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是遠近的問題……"],["柯委員志恩：他們就是不應該做這樣的事情啦！院長，你會不會發現我們的翠玉白菜真的很忙，常常要出宮去，有沒有發現？當然我認為博物館非常重要的部分，我跟你調了有關於出借作業的要點，裡面指的是有關於圖書、文獻、織品等等，他們認為每次展出也要回復養護至少18個月，我們翠玉白菜不需要是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為它是一個異質的文物，所以它的耐候性比較強一點……"],["柯委員志恩：但是你沒有做好保險，還有你有沒有限制它出館的次數？它多久出宮之後還要回宮啊？你有沒有發現，這個做完之後，3月10號在臺南美術館，然後回宮只有幾個月的時間，所以這個部分你們有沒有一套最完整的作法？不管你說它是不是屬於國寶級，它是屬於我們的重要文物，它是每個人都想要去看的，院長你等一下可以回應。還有我為什麼會特別提出來？因為我們接到非常多導遊都在說，他們甚至在你們櫃臺大聲的講，他們想要去看翠玉白菜就發現翠玉白菜出宮到臺南，問題是很多人會想要特別到臺北故宮來看，結果發現翠玉白菜不在，對這些人來說是非常失望的，對不對？院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：的確，可是因為在我到任之前已經形成一個慣例，就是故宮的翠玉白菜要南北院輪流出差，因為肉形石在臺北的話，白菜就在南院……"],["柯委員志恩：要輪流出差，所以我說它很忙啊！我知道啊！所以這裡面進出物的檢測報告，以你們剛剛在那邊簽署公文的狀況，我們大家都會非常的擔心。它到底出宮有多少次？然後你們檢測的SOP以及它的保險，我覺得院長你都要給我一份非常完整的報告，把我們的翠玉白菜還有相關的、重要的出宮成效，請院長給我整理一份，可以嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好，因為故宮有一個現場文物的規定，最主要是書畫類的部分。"],["柯委員志恩：我知道，我剛才有特別提到書畫類這個部分，這不是屬於你剛剛已經提到的，但是它的保險、它的SOP，我還是要強烈的要求部長能夠告訴我，而且北院跟南院當初的定位本來就不一樣，一個是華夏，一個是亞洲，本來就是不一樣，你現在是不太交流，我沒有意見，但是院長，它的定位還有人家的鎮院之寶，要到現場才可以看得到，這是我們非常重要的，我想請院長還是好好考量這一點。"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為故宮南院也是故宮，所以我們不能講說……"],["柯委員志恩：定位不一樣，展出的東西就不一樣。","還有接下來我要問一個非常重要的問題。院長，在禮拜一的文物修復現況當中，最後一頁你有特別提到因應國際局勢，所以你們對於山洞的庫房，要做一個很好的規劃，是不是？還有包括地緣政治。"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，因為現在我們在進行北院行政大樓的建置工作，未來跟展品維護、跟展覽無關的同仁會移到山下，所以移到山下之後山洞庫房的東西就會進到研究大樓的地下室……未來會進行山洞庫房的整建。"],["柯委員志恩：好，沒關係，因為時間實在太短了，在最後一頁你竟然說，未來要做戰備物資儲存的準備，你說因為地緣政治的關係，還有戰備物資儲存，請問一下，戰備物資是你提出來，還是國安單位特別提出來的？"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是，同仁他誤解用語，因為我們還是要準備，原來的鐵箱還是要放在裡面，如果有地緣政治危險的時候，那個鐵箱還是要趕快到……"],["柯委員志恩：所以你這裡提的戰備物資並不是要儲存戰備的一些東西？"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是！不是！"],["柯委員志恩：你這邊寫戰備物資真的是嚇死人，但是我還是要請問一下，為什麼會做這樣的一個聯想，因為2022年俄烏戰爭爆發的時候，吳密察前院長曾經跟BBC特別提到，這是我們成立後第一次戰爭應變的演練，而且你有諮詢國安、軍方跟警察單位，有這樣的一回事，對不對？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，跟委員報告，因為故宮被列為重要的國土的一個相關設施，基本上，因為是國土辦列管的單位，所以我們每年都要做演練。"],["柯委員志恩：好，你們吳前院長非常擔心戰爭對故宮設備的一個破壞，還有被敵軍搶奪，他非常擔心，所以你們不管在山洞各方面的防震技術都做好了準備，真的要是發生的話，請問下一步會是什麼？寶物是就地放置呢？還是放到美國、日本還是哪裡呢？"],["蕭院長宗煌：不可能，目前臺灣沒有比故宮更安全的地方。"],["柯委員志恩：所以你完全就像馮明珠前院長說的，故宮文物最安全的地方就在故宮本地？"],["蕭院長宗煌：故宮基本上來講的話，文物都在地下、半地下，或是山洞裡面，所以相對國內其他博物館，我們是最安全的，而且故宮當初的選擇，那個地方的地形、地貌，也是有一些防空上面的考量。"],["柯委員志恩：對我個人來說，文物的保存最重要，在我們的山洞庫房當中，如果它的防震係數跟山下的部分相較，誰比較高？因為現在很多地方地震頻繁，你要由箱轉櫃，對不對？所以對我個人來說，放文物的地方中哪個地方防震係數最高，那個地方就是最安全的，這你同意嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，因為山洞庫房的東西要遷出來，我們現在請中興顧問保全公司來做……"],["柯委員志恩：我只要百分之百確定你說的戰備物資儲存，這個絕對不是如字面上所說的，因為你又開始提到地緣政治，又提到戰爭，嚇死人了！"],["蕭院長宗煌：絕對不是放鞭炮或是放什麼東西。"],["柯委員志恩：戰備物資不是鞭炮，好不好？這已經不是鞭炮等級了，院長！"],["蕭院長宗煌：我知道啦！"],["柯委員志恩：還是要有一點國防知識，拜託！"],["蕭院長宗煌：這是我的一個形容。"],["柯委員志恩：所以完全就是以故宮的等級來去做這樣的處理？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["柯委員志恩：否則你把它搬出來，然後放物資，然後再把它搬回去，這完全不make sense！"],["蕭院長宗煌：就是我們的鐵箱、包裝器材、維護工具等等，是這樣的意思，因為文物遷出來的話，鐵箱還是要有一個地方放。"],["柯委員志恩：所以措辭請清楚一點，我剛剛看到助理拿回來的內容，把我真的是活活的嚇死了，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["柯委員志恩：最後一個，我還是要問到，包括你的人力，史博館因為它的玻璃販賣店擋住紅牆，所以讓很多人有批評，故宮現在要加蓋玻璃屋，也是會擋住黃牆，這之前已經被臺北市文資局否決了，如果這次再被否決，院長你要不要負責？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上，有四家廠商，一家因為做了玻璃入口，然後它雀屏中選得標了，所以他報了第一次，文資局不同意，但是它可以再修訂，修訂以後再送文資局，文資局如果不同意的話，我們會要它變更計畫。"],["柯委員志恩：一定要變更計畫，而且重點是每個人都喜歡拿來跟羅浮宮比，但羅浮宮跟故宮就是不一樣，現在你們的計畫要拆掉兩個樓梯，中間還有所謂玻璃採光的部分，羅浮宮不管是腹地、不管是地震，都跟臺灣完全不一樣，所以院長，不要東施效顰，而且你現在馬上告訴我，要蓋一個這麼大的、一個三層樓的玻璃建築，這個玻璃建築……"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個是南美館，不是故宮未來。"],["柯委員志恩：我知道，所以我現在是告訴你，原來故宮要做的這個部分，我現在以南美館為例來告訴你，你要做一個玻璃圍牆，而南美館的例子已經告訴你，這是要打著傘帶著太陽眼鏡在喝下午茶，因為很熱，好不好？你現在從頭到尾都用玻璃的帷幕，會不會發生同樣的狀況？在所謂的氣候變遷的狀況之下全部都用玻璃，你的冷氣要開到多大才有辦法？我當然知道它是南美館，就是以它的例子告訴你，故宮在做一個文化修復當中，我不要說這是破壞，但你必須把它做一些更好的處理，可是你現在非常堅持要用玻璃帷幕的方法，這部分有很多人是非常有意見的，請好好慎重的考慮，今天因為時間的關係，我還是要請院長慎重，對於我們故宮的保存，要嚴肅的面對，文化界每個人都在看，可不可以？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是，謝謝委員的提醒，我們會謹遵這樣一個指導原則，未來我們會特別關注。"],["柯委員志恩：我還是對玻璃帷幕非常的有意見，因為若是在同樣的地方，它是遮住了整個非常大的一個方向，不是只有我，所以請不要讓國史館一個錯誤的經驗又重新發生在我們的故宮，這是我們國家的寶物，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：報告委員，因為我行政程序還是要走，要不然的話會有履約爭議。"],["柯委員志恩：我當然知道，我只是告訴你，如果它再被否決的話，對於玻璃帷幕的放棄還是再次的修建，請院長不要不要再固著於所謂你們建築師的想法上，這是我們最後的一個提醒。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們會以社會最大的共識來處理。"],["柯委員志恩：好吧！我希望下個會期站在我前面的應該還是你，不管是公開或是私下的徵詢，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩召委，院長請回。我們接下來請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":64,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-11","speakers":["林宜瑾","萬美玲","柯志恩","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","張雅琳","吳沛憶","吳春城","葉元之","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","林倩綺","范雲","林楚茵","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1134301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席就「回首百年放眼未來─ 故宮定位與部會級博物館公共責任\n總檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134301_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"152259","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152259","tool":"pyannote","id":"152259-pyannote"},"job_id":"0aryUuspiH3t5u6j","queued_at":"2024-05-31 11:06:58","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 11:07:51","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152259"},{"time":"2024-05-31 11:07:52","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9fa9bc2102b9cf716a02f6cf4f07b6cb6811336f45411769853c524fae1df1f24f1e67c654a2dd135ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-31 11:08:14","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-31 11:08:16","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-05-31 11:08:27","msg":"status: 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\"end\": 671.727, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 671.727, \"end\": 671.827, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 671.827, \"end\": 671.967, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 671.967, \"end\": 672.107, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 672.107, \"end\": 672.227, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 672.227, \"end\": 672.668, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 672.668, \"end\": 672.828, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 672.828, \"end\": 672.948, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 672.948, \"end\": 673.148, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 673.148, \"end\": 673.228, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 673.228, \"end\": 673.248, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 673.248, \"end\": 673.428, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 673.428, \"end\": 673.528, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 673.528, \"end\": 673.668, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 673.668, \"end\": 673.809, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 673.809, \"end\": 674.089, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 674.089, \"end\": 674.189, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 674.189, \"end\": 674.349, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"私\", \"start\": 674.349, \"end\": 674.449, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 674.449, \"end\": 674.589, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 674.589, \"end\": 674.689, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"徵\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 674.689, \"end\": 674.709, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,363 --> 00:00:09,385\n蕭院長,關於我們新內閣的新生訓練是沒有看到你的蹤影,你剛剛回覆說沒有被正式來徵詢,私下有徵詢嗎?\n\n2\n00:00:28,943 --> 00:00:31,627\n故宮是我們的最愛,也是很多國人的最愛。\n\n3\n00:00:45,225 --> 00:00:45,325\n李卓人議員\n\n4\n00:01:08,698 --> 00:01:08,838\n院長有沒有可能?\n\n5\n00:01:28,860 --> 00:01:32,585\n我告訴你啦你這種方式就是完全不對的一定是有人看不下\n\n6\n00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:44,281\n這不是演進的問題不是演進的問題\n\n7\n00:02:05,658 --> 00:02:05,698\n主席\n\n8\n00:02:25,627 --> 00:02:34,535\n因為他是一個益職的文物所以他的耐厚性比較強一點但是你有沒有做好一個像是保險還有你有沒有限制他出館的這個次數然後他多久出宮之後還要回宮啊你有沒有發現你看這個做完之後3月10號在台南美術館然後呢你在故宮還要回宮只有幾個月的時間所以這個部分來說的話你們有沒有一套最完整的一個做法\n\n9\n00:02:50,950 --> 00:02:51,230\n蔡玉白蔡出宮臺南\n\n10\n00:03:11,757 --> 00:03:37,070\n問題是很多人就會想要特別到我們臺北的故宮來去看就你發現你翠玉白菜不在那對這些人來說的話是非常失望的對不對院長的確可是因為在我到任之前的話他已經形成一個慣例就是故宮的翠玉白菜的話他南北宴要輪流出差因為肉行時在臺北的話白菜就要輪流出差所以我說他很忙啊\n\n11\n00:03:37,330 --> 00:03:38,090\n因為故宮有一個現場輪入的規定當然最主要是書畫類的部分\n\n12\n00:04:04,218 --> 00:04:04,698\n因為故宮南院也是故宮所以我們不能講說\n\n13\n00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:34,120\n李卓人議員\n\n14\n00:04:53,467 --> 00:05:19,635\n跟委員報告一下就是因為現在我們在進行北宴的一個行政大樓的一個建置工作未來的話跟展品維護跟展覽無關的同仁會移到山下所以移到山下之後山洞庫房的東西就會進到研究大樓的地下室好沒關係你的最後一言最後一言因為時間實在太短了最後一言你竟然說為了做未來要做戰備物資儲存的準備\n\n15\n00:05:22,877 --> 00:05:40,311\n地緣政治的關係,戰備物資儲存,請問戰備物資是你提出來還是國安單位特別提出來的?不是同仁的話,他誤解用意,就是說因為我們還是要準備原來的鐵箱還是要放在裡面,如果說有地緣政治危險的時候,那個鐵箱還是要趕快到\n\n16\n00:05:41,011 --> 00:05:46,934\n所以你這個戰備物資並不是要儲存戰備的一些部分那你這邊寫戰備物資嚇死人但是我還是要請問一下為什麼會做這樣的一個聯想因為在這個我們2022年的時候惡霧戰爭爆發吳密查前院長曾經跟BBC特別提到了這是我們成立第一次戰爭應變的演練而且你諮詢的國安軍方跟警察單位請問有這樣的一回事對不對\n\n17\n00:06:08,142 --> 00:06:23,091\n對跟委員報告因為故宮被列為重要的國土的一個相關設施所以基本上來講國土辦列管的單位所以我們每年都要做演練好那你對你們剛吳前院長非常擔心戰爭對故宮的設備的一個破壞還有被敵軍搶奪他非常擔心所以你們不管在煽動各方面的防震技術做好的準備那我請問真的要是發生的話請問下一步會是什麼\n\n18\n00:06:33,737 --> 00:06:35,620\n你完全就像馮明珠前院長說的故宮文物最安全的地方就在故宮本地\n\n19\n00:06:49,238 --> 00:07:06,810\n因為故宮基本上來講文物都在地下半地下或是山洞裡面所以相對國內其他的博物館的話我們是最安全的而且故宮當初的選擇那個地方的地形、地貌來講的話它就是有一些黃空上面的一個考量\n\n20\n00:07:07,210 --> 00:07:28,469\n所以對我個人來說文物的保存最重要你說在我們的這個山洞庫房當中如果它的防震係數跟山下的部分來說的話誰比較高山洞的防護係數跟因為你相信很多地方你的地震頻繁嘛你要由鄉轉貴嘛對不對所以對我個人來說文物的地方是哪個地方防震係數最高就哪個地方是最安全的這你同意吧\n\n21\n00:07:28,689 --> 00:07:34,191\n我只要百分之百確定你說的戰備物資儲存這個絕對不是你們如字面上所說因為你又開始提到地緣政治又提到戰爭絕對不是放鞭炮放什麼東西戰備物資不是鞭炮好不好就已經不是鞭炮等級了院長我知道啦我形容啦我形容啦我形容\n\n22\n00:07:54,940 --> 00:07:56,681\n我們的鐵箱包裝器材維護工具是這樣的意思因為鐵箱的話文物遷出來的話鐵箱還是要有一個地方放\n\n23\n00:08:14,346 --> 00:08:39,107\n所以說措辭請清楚一點我剛剛看助理拿回來今天把我活活的嚇死了好不好還有就是最後一個我還是要問到包括你的人力就是這個史博館裡面我們往後面史博館因為他的玻璃販賣店擋住紅牆所以讓很多人很多批評故宮現在你要加蓋玻璃我擋上黃牆之前已經被臺北市的文資局否決了如果這次再被否決院長你要不要負責\n\n24\n00:08:40,638 --> 00:08:57,323\n基本上來講的話有4家廠商一家的話做了玻璃入口然後他竊屏中險得標了所以他報了第一次文資局不同意但是他可以再修訂修訂以後再送文資局文資局如果不同意的話我們要他變更計畫\n\n25\n00:08:58,243 --> 00:08:58,723\n這是南美館這個不是故宮未來這是南美館\n\n26\n00:09:27,952 --> 00:09:56,689\n我知道了所以我現在告訴你原來要做個故宮的這個部分裡面我只從南美館來告訴你要做個玻璃圍牆南美館已經告訴你打著傘戴著太陽眼鏡在喝下午茶因為做Ryde好不好你現在從頭到尾都要用玻璃的圍幕會不會發生同樣的狀況在所謂的這個氣候變遷的狀況之下全部用玻璃你的冷氣要開到多大才有辦法我當然知道它是南美館就是以它的例子告訴你故宮在這樣一個文化修復當中你要破壞\n\n27\n00:09:57,489 --> 00:09:59,050\n請好好慎重我今天時間的關係我還是要請著院長你要慎重對於我們的故宮的保存要免嚴肅的面帶文化界每個人都在看可不可以\n\n28\n00:10:23,706 --> 00:10:46,290\n我還是對玻璃帷幕非常的有意見因為你若在同樣的地方他是遮住了整個非常大的一個方向不是只有我不要以國使館錯誤的一個經驗請不要讓他自己的經驗又重新發生在我們的故宮這才是我們國家的寶物好不好\n\n29\n00:10:46,610 --> 00:11:14,709\n報告委員因為我行政程序還是要走要不然的話會有禮業爭議我當然知道啦我只是告訴你如果他再被否決的話請你們好好的對於玻璃的放棄還是再出的修建請院長不要不要再顧著於這個所謂你們建築師的想法吧這是我們最後的一個提醒我想我們會以社會最大的共識來做好吧我希望在下一個會期裡面站在我前面的應該還是你了好不好不管是公開或是私下的徵詢好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6363\t9385\t蕭院長,關於我們新內閣的新生訓練是沒有看到你的蹤影,你剛剛回覆說沒有被正式來徵詢,私下有徵詢嗎?\n28943\t31627\t故宮是我們的最愛,也是很多國人的最愛。\n45225\t45325\t李卓人議員\n68698\t68838\t院長有沒有可能?\n88860\t92585\t我告訴你啦你這種方式就是完全不對的一定是有人看不下\n103760\t104281\t這不是演進的問題不是演進的問題\n125658\t125698\t主席\n145627\t154535\t因為他是一個益職的文物所以他的耐厚性比較強一點但是你有沒有做好一個像是保險還有你有沒有限制他出館的這個次數然後他多久出宮之後還要回宮啊你有沒有發現你看這個做完之後3月10號在台南美術館然後呢你在故宮還要回宮只有幾個月的時間所以這個部分來說的話你們有沒有一套最完整的一個做法\n170950\t171230\t蔡玉白蔡出宮臺南\n191757\t217070\t問題是很多人就會想要特別到我們臺北的故宮來去看就你發現你翠玉白菜不在那對這些人來說的話是非常失望的對不對院長的確可是因為在我到任之前的話他已經形成一個慣例就是故宮的翠玉白菜的話他南北宴要輪流出差因為肉行時在臺北的話白菜就要輪流出差所以我說他很忙啊\n217330\t218090\t因為故宮有一個現場輪入的規定當然最主要是書畫類的部分\n244218\t244698\t因為故宮南院也是故宮所以我們不能講說\n273800\t274120\t李卓人議員\n293467\t319635\t跟委員報告一下就是因為現在我們在進行北宴的一個行政大樓的一個建置工作未來的話跟展品維護跟展覽無關的同仁會移到山下所以移到山下之後山洞庫房的東西就會進到研究大樓的地下室好沒關係你的最後一言最後一言因為時間實在太短了最後一言你竟然說為了做未來要做戰備物資儲存的準備\n322877\t340311\t地緣政治的關係,戰備物資儲存,請問戰備物資是你提出來還是國安單位特別提出來的?不是同仁的話,他誤解用意,就是說因為我們還是要準備原來的鐵箱還是要放在裡面,如果說有地緣政治危險的時候,那個鐵箱還是要趕快到\n341011\t346934\t所以你這個戰備物資並不是要儲存戰備的一些部分那你這邊寫戰備物資嚇死人但是我還是要請問一下為什麼會做這樣的一個聯想因為在這個我們2022年的時候惡霧戰爭爆發吳密查前院長曾經跟BBC特別提到了這是我們成立第一次戰爭應變的演練而且你諮詢的國安軍方跟警察單位請問有這樣的一回事對不對\n368142\t383091\t對跟委員報告因為故宮被列為重要的國土的一個相關設施所以基本上來講國土辦列管的單位所以我們每年都要做演練好那你對你們剛吳前院長非常擔心戰爭對故宮的設備的一個破壞還有被敵軍搶奪他非常擔心所以你們不管在煽動各方面的防震技術做好的準備那我請問真的要是發生的話請問下一步會是什麼\n393737\t395620\t你完全就像馮明珠前院長說的故宮文物最安全的地方就在故宮本地\n409238\t426810\t因為故宮基本上來講文物都在地下半地下或是山洞裡面所以相對國內其他的博物館的話我們是最安全的而且故宮當初的選擇那個地方的地形、地貌來講的話它就是有一些黃空上面的一個考量\n427210\t448469\t所以對我個人來說文物的保存最重要你說在我們的這個山洞庫房當中如果它的防震係數跟山下的部分來說的話誰比較高山洞的防護係數跟因為你相信很多地方你的地震頻繁嘛你要由鄉轉貴嘛對不對所以對我個人來說文物的地方是哪個地方防震係數最高就哪個地方是最安全的這你同意吧\n448689\t454191\t我只要百分之百確定你說的戰備物資儲存這個絕對不是你們如字面上所說因為你又開始提到地緣政治又提到戰爭絕對不是放鞭炮放什麼東西戰備物資不是鞭炮好不好就已經不是鞭炮等級了院長我知道啦我形容啦我形容啦我形容\n474940\t476681\t我們的鐵箱包裝器材維護工具是這樣的意思因為鐵箱的話文物遷出來的話鐵箱還是要有一個地方放\n494346\t519107\t所以說措辭請清楚一點我剛剛看助理拿回來今天把我活活的嚇死了好不好還有就是最後一個我還是要問到包括你的人力就是這個史博館裡面我們往後面史博館因為他的玻璃販賣店擋住紅牆所以讓很多人很多批評故宮現在你要加蓋玻璃我擋上黃牆之前已經被臺北市的文資局否決了如果這次再被否決院長你要不要負責\n520638\t537323\t基本上來講的話有4家廠商一家的話做了玻璃入口然後他竊屏中險得標了所以他報了第一次文資局不同意但是他可以再修訂修訂以後再送文資局文資局如果不同意的話我們要他變更計畫\n538243\t538723\t這是南美館 這個不是故宮未來這是南美館\n567952\t596689\t我知道了所以我現在告訴你原來要做個故宮的這個部分裡面我只從南美館來告訴你要做個玻璃圍牆南美館已經告訴你打著傘戴著太陽眼鏡在喝下午茶因為做Ryde好不好你現在從頭到尾都要用玻璃的圍幕會不會發生同樣的狀況在所謂的這個氣候變遷的狀況之下全部用玻璃你的冷氣要開到多大才有辦法我當然知道它是南美館就是以它的例子告訴你故宮在這樣一個文化修復當中你要破壞\n597489\t599050\t請好好慎重我今天時間的關係我還是要請著院長你要慎重對於我們的故宮的保存要免嚴肅的面帶文化界每個人都在看可不可以\n623706\t646290\t我還是對玻璃帷幕非常的有意見因為你若在同樣的地方他是遮住了整個非常大的一個方向不是只有我不要以國使館錯誤的一個經驗請不要讓他自己的經驗又重新發生在我們的故宮這才是我們國家的寶物好不好\n646610\t674709\t報告委員因為我行政程序還是要走要不然的話會有禮業爭議我當然知道啦我只是告訴你如果他再被否決的話請你們好好的對於玻璃的放棄還是再出的修建請院長不要不要再顧著於這個所謂你們建築師的想法吧這是我們最後的一個提醒我想我們會以社會最大的共識來做好吧我希望在下一個會期裡面站在我前面的應該還是你了好不好不管是公開或是私下的徵詢好謝謝\n","txt":"蕭院長,關於我們新內閣的新生訓練是沒有看到你的蹤影,你剛剛回覆說沒有被正式來徵詢,私下有徵詢嗎?\n故宮是我們的最愛,也是很多國人的最愛。\n李卓人議員\n院長有沒有可能?\n我告訴你啦你這種方式就是完全不對的一定是有人看不下\n這不是演進的問題不是演進的問題\n主席\n因為他是一個益職的文物所以他的耐厚性比較強一點但是你有沒有做好一個像是保險還有你有沒有限制他出館的這個次數然後他多久出宮之後還要回宮啊你有沒有發現你看這個做完之後3月10號在台南美術館然後呢你在故宮還要回宮只有幾個月的時間所以這個部分來說的話你們有沒有一套最完整的一個做法\n蔡玉白蔡出宮臺南\n問題是很多人就會想要特別到我們臺北的故宮來去看就你發現你翠玉白菜不在那對這些人來說的話是非常失望的對不對院長的確可是因為在我到任之前的話他已經形成一個慣例就是故宮的翠玉白菜的話他南北宴要輪流出差因為肉行時在臺北的話白菜就要輪流出差所以我說他很忙啊\n因為故宮有一個現場輪入的規定當然最主要是書畫類的部分\n因為故宮南院也是故宮所以我們不能講說\n李卓人議員\n跟委員報告一下就是因為現在我們在進行北宴的一個行政大樓的一個建置工作未來的話跟展品維護跟展覽無關的同仁會移到山下所以移到山下之後山洞庫房的東西就會進到研究大樓的地下室好沒關係你的最後一言最後一言因為時間實在太短了最後一言你竟然說為了做未來要做戰備物資儲存的準備\n地緣政治的關係,戰備物資儲存,請問戰備物資是你提出來還是國安單位特別提出來的?不是同仁的話,他誤解用意,就是說因為我們還是要準備原來的鐵箱還是要放在裡面,如果說有地緣政治危險的時候,那個鐵箱還是要趕快到\n所以你這個戰備物資並不是要儲存戰備的一些部分那你這邊寫戰備物資嚇死人但是我還是要請問一下為什麼會做這樣的一個聯想因為在這個我們2022年的時候惡霧戰爭爆發吳密查前院長曾經跟BBC特別提到了這是我們成立第一次戰爭應變的演練而且你諮詢的國安軍方跟警察單位請問有這樣的一回事對不對\n對跟委員報告因為故宮被列為重要的國土的一個相關設施所以基本上來講國土辦列管的單位所以我們每年都要做演練好那你對你們剛吳前院長非常擔心戰爭對故宮的設備的一個破壞還有被敵軍搶奪他非常擔心所以你們不管在煽動各方面的防震技術做好的準備那我請問真的要是發生的話請問下一步會是什麼\n你完全就像馮明珠前院長說的故宮文物最安全的地方就在故宮本地\n因為故宮基本上來講文物都在地下半地下或是山洞裡面所以相對國內其他的博物館的話我們是最安全的而且故宮當初的選擇那個地方的地形、地貌來講的話它就是有一些黃空上面的一個考量\n所以對我個人來說文物的保存最重要你說在我們的這個山洞庫房當中如果它的防震係數跟山下的部分來說的話誰比較高山洞的防護係數跟因為你相信很多地方你的地震頻繁嘛你要由鄉轉貴嘛對不對所以對我個人來說文物的地方是哪個地方防震係數最高就哪個地方是最安全的這你同意吧\n我只要百分之百確定你說的戰備物資儲存這個絕對不是你們如字面上所說因為你又開始提到地緣政治又提到戰爭絕對不是放鞭炮放什麼東西戰備物資不是鞭炮好不好就已經不是鞭炮等級了院長我知道啦我形容啦我形容啦我形容\n我們的鐵箱包裝器材維護工具是這樣的意思因為鐵箱的話文物遷出來的話鐵箱還是要有一個地方放\n所以說措辭請清楚一點我剛剛看助理拿回來今天把我活活的嚇死了好不好還有就是最後一個我還是要問到包括你的人力就是這個史博館裡面我們往後面史博館因為他的玻璃販賣店擋住紅牆所以讓很多人很多批評故宮現在你要加蓋玻璃我擋上黃牆之前已經被臺北市的文資局否決了如果這次再被否決院長你要不要負責\n基本上來講的話有4家廠商一家的話做了玻璃入口然後他竊屏中險得標了所以他報了第一次文資局不同意但是他可以再修訂修訂以後再送文資局文資局如果不同意的話我們要他變更計畫\n這是南美館 這個不是故宮未來這是南美館\n我知道了所以我現在告訴你原來要做個故宮的這個部分裡面我只從南美館來告訴你要做個玻璃圍牆南美館已經告訴你打著傘戴著太陽眼鏡在喝下午茶因為做Ryde好不好你現在從頭到尾都要用玻璃的圍幕會不會發生同樣的狀況在所謂的這個氣候變遷的狀況之下全部用玻璃你的冷氣要開到多大才有辦法我當然知道它是南美館就是以它的例子告訴你故宮在這樣一個文化修復當中你要破壞\n請好好慎重我今天時間的關係我還是要請著院長你要慎重對於我們的故宮的保存要免嚴肅的面帶文化界每個人都在看可不可以\n我還是對玻璃帷幕非常的有意見因為你若在同樣的地方他是遮住了整個非常大的一個方向不是只有我不要以國使館錯誤的一個經驗請不要讓他自己的經驗又重新發生在我們的故宮這才是我們國家的寶物好不好\n報告委員因為我行政程序還是要走要不然的話會有禮業爭議我當然知道啦我只是告訴你如果他再被否決的話請你們好好的對於玻璃的放棄還是再出的修建請院長不要不要再顧著於這個所謂你們建築師的想法吧這是我們最後的一個提醒我想我們會以社會最大的共識來做好吧我希望在下一個會期裡面站在我前面的應該還是你了好不好不管是公開或是私下的徵詢好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.363 --> 00:09.385\n蕭院長,關於我們新內閣的新生訓練是沒有看到你的蹤影,你剛剛回覆說沒有被正式來徵詢,私下有徵詢嗎?\n\n00:28.943 --> 00:31.627\n故宮是我們的最愛,也是很多國人的最愛。\n\n00:45.225 --> 00:45.325\n李卓人議員\n\n01:08.698 --> 01:08.838\n院長有沒有可能?\n\n01:28.860 --> 01:32.585\n我告訴你啦你這種方式就是完全不對的一定是有人看不下\n\n01:43.760 --> 01:44.281\n這不是演進的問題不是演進的問題\n\n02:05.658 --> 02:05.698\n主席\n\n02:25.627 --> 02:34.535\n因為他是一個益職的文物所以他的耐厚性比較強一點但是你有沒有做好一個像是保險還有你有沒有限制他出館的這個次數然後他多久出宮之後還要回宮啊你有沒有發現你看這個做完之後3月10號在台南美術館然後呢你在故宮還要回宮只有幾個月的時間所以這個部分來說的話你們有沒有一套最完整的一個做法\n\n02:50.950 --> 02:51.230\n蔡玉白蔡出宮臺南\n\n03:11.757 --> 03:37.070\n問題是很多人就會想要特別到我們臺北的故宮來去看就你發現你翠玉白菜不在那對這些人來說的話是非常失望的對不對院長的確可是因為在我到任之前的話他已經形成一個慣例就是故宮的翠玉白菜的話他南北宴要輪流出差因為肉行時在臺北的話白菜就要輪流出差所以我說他很忙啊\n\n03:37.330 --> 03:38.090\n因為故宮有一個現場輪入的規定當然最主要是書畫類的部分\n\n04:04.218 --> 04:04.698\n因為故宮南院也是故宮所以我們不能講說\n\n04:33.800 --> 04:34.120\n李卓人議員\n\n04:53.467 --> 05:19.635\n跟委員報告一下就是因為現在我們在進行北宴的一個行政大樓的一個建置工作未來的話跟展品維護跟展覽無關的同仁會移到山下所以移到山下之後山洞庫房的東西就會進到研究大樓的地下室好沒關係你的最後一言最後一言因為時間實在太短了最後一言你竟然說為了做未來要做戰備物資儲存的準備\n\n05:22.877 --> 05:40.311\n地緣政治的關係,戰備物資儲存,請問戰備物資是你提出來還是國安單位特別提出來的?不是同仁的話,他誤解用意,就是說因為我們還是要準備原來的鐵箱還是要放在裡面,如果說有地緣政治危險的時候,那個鐵箱還是要趕快到\n\n05:41.011 --> 05:46.934\n所以你這個戰備物資並不是要儲存戰備的一些部分那你這邊寫戰備物資嚇死人但是我還是要請問一下為什麼會做這樣的一個聯想因為在這個我們2022年的時候惡霧戰爭爆發吳密查前院長曾經跟BBC特別提到了這是我們成立第一次戰爭應變的演練而且你諮詢的國安軍方跟警察單位請問有這樣的一回事對不對\n\n06:08.142 --> 06:23.091\n對跟委員報告因為故宮被列為重要的國土的一個相關設施所以基本上來講國土辦列管的單位所以我們每年都要做演練好那你對你們剛吳前院長非常擔心戰爭對故宮的設備的一個破壞還有被敵軍搶奪他非常擔心所以你們不管在煽動各方面的防震技術做好的準備那我請問真的要是發生的話請問下一步會是什麼\n\n06:33.737 --> 06:35.620\n你完全就像馮明珠前院長說的故宮文物最安全的地方就在故宮本地\n\n06:49.238 --> 07:06.810\n因為故宮基本上來講文物都在地下半地下或是山洞裡面所以相對國內其他的博物館的話我們是最安全的而且故宮當初的選擇那個地方的地形、地貌來講的話它就是有一些黃空上面的一個考量\n\n07:07.210 --> 07:28.469\n所以對我個人來說文物的保存最重要你說在我們的這個山洞庫房當中如果它的防震係數跟山下的部分來說的話誰比較高山洞的防護係數跟因為你相信很多地方你的地震頻繁嘛你要由鄉轉貴嘛對不對所以對我個人來說文物的地方是哪個地方防震係數最高就哪個地方是最安全的這你同意吧\n\n07:28.689 --> 07:34.191\n我只要百分之百確定你說的戰備物資儲存這個絕對不是你們如字面上所說因為你又開始提到地緣政治又提到戰爭絕對不是放鞭炮放什麼東西戰備物資不是鞭炮好不好就已經不是鞭炮等級了院長我知道啦我形容啦我形容啦我形容\n\n07:54.940 --> 07:56.681\n我們的鐵箱包裝器材維護工具是這樣的意思因為鐵箱的話文物遷出來的話鐵箱還是要有一個地方放\n\n08:14.346 --> 08:39.107\n所以說措辭請清楚一點我剛剛看助理拿回來今天把我活活的嚇死了好不好還有就是最後一個我還是要問到包括你的人力就是這個史博館裡面我們往後面史博館因為他的玻璃販賣店擋住紅牆所以讓很多人很多批評故宮現在你要加蓋玻璃我擋上黃牆之前已經被臺北市的文資局否決了如果這次再被否決院長你要不要負責\n\n08:40.638 --> 08:57.323\n基本上來講的話有4家廠商一家的話做了玻璃入口然後他竊屏中險得標了所以他報了第一次文資局不同意但是他可以再修訂修訂以後再送文資局文資局如果不同意的話我們要他變更計畫\n\n08:58.243 --> 08:58.723\n這是南美館這個不是故宮未來這是南美館\n\n09:27.952 --> 09:56.689\n我知道了所以我現在告訴你原來要做個故宮的這個部分裡面我只從南美館來告訴你要做個玻璃圍牆南美館已經告訴你打著傘戴著太陽眼鏡在喝下午茶因為做Ryde好不好你現在從頭到尾都要用玻璃的圍幕會不會發生同樣的狀況在所謂的這個氣候變遷的狀況之下全部用玻璃你的冷氣要開到多大才有辦法我當然知道它是南美館就是以它的例子告訴你故宮在這樣一個文化修復當中你要破壞\n\n09:57.489 --> 09:59.050\n請好好慎重我今天時間的關係我還是要請著院長你要慎重對於我們的故宮的保存要免嚴肅的面帶文化界每個人都在看可不可以\n\n10:23.706 --> 10:46.290\n我還是對玻璃帷幕非常的有意見因為你若在同樣的地方他是遮住了整個非常大的一個方向不是只有我不要以國使館錯誤的一個經驗請不要讓他自己的經驗又重新發生在我們的故宮這才是我們國家的寶物好不好\n\n10:46.610 --> 11:14.709\n報告委員因為我行政程序還是要走要不然的話會有禮業爭議我當然知道啦我只是告訴你如果他再被否決的話請你們好好的對於玻璃的放棄還是再出的修建請院長不要不要再顧著於這個所謂你們建築師的想法吧這是我們最後的一個提醒我想我們會以社會最大的共識來做好吧我希望在下一個會期裡面站在我前面的應該還是你了好不好不管是公開或是私下的徵詢好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.363,"end":9.385,"text":"蕭院長,關於我們新內閣的新生訓練是沒有看到你的蹤影,你剛剛回覆說沒有被正式來徵詢,私下有徵詢嗎?"},{"start":28.943,"end":31.627,"text":"故宮是我們的最愛,也是很多國人的最愛。"},{"start":45.225,"end":45.325,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":68.698,"end":68.838,"text":"院長有沒有可能?"},{"start":88.86,"end":92.585,"text":"我告訴你啦你這種方式就是完全不對的一定是有人看不下"},{"start":103.76,"end":104.281,"text":"這不是演進的問題不是演進的問題"},{"start":125.658,"end":125.698,"text":"主席"},{"start":145.627,"end":154.535,"text":"因為他是一個益職的文物所以他的耐厚性比較強一點但是你有沒有做好一個像是保險還有你有沒有限制他出館的這個次數然後他多久出宮之後還要回宮啊你有沒有發現你看這個做完之後3月10號在台南美術館然後呢你在故宮還要回宮只有幾個月的時間所以這個部分來說的話你們有沒有一套最完整的一個做法"},{"start":170.95,"end":171.23,"text":"蔡玉白蔡出宮臺南"},{"start":191.757,"end":217.07,"text":"問題是很多人就會想要特別到我們臺北的故宮來去看就你發現你翠玉白菜不在那對這些人來說的話是非常失望的對不對院長的確可是因為在我到任之前的話他已經形成一個慣例就是故宮的翠玉白菜的話他南北宴要輪流出差因為肉行時在臺北的話白菜就要輪流出差所以我說他很忙啊"},{"start":217.33,"end":218.09,"text":"因為故宮有一個現場輪入的規定當然最主要是書畫類的部分"},{"start":244.218,"end":244.698,"text":"因為故宮南院也是故宮所以我們不能講說"},{"start":273.8,"end":274.12,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":293.467,"end":319.635,"text":"跟委員報告一下就是因為現在我們在進行北宴的一個行政大樓的一個建置工作未來的話跟展品維護跟展覽無關的同仁會移到山下所以移到山下之後山洞庫房的東西就會進到研究大樓的地下室好沒關係你的最後一言最後一言因為時間實在太短了最後一言你竟然說為了做未來要做戰備物資儲存的準備"},{"start":322.877,"end":340.311,"text":"地緣政治的關係,戰備物資儲存,請問戰備物資是你提出來還是國安單位特別提出來的?不是同仁的話,他誤解用意,就是說因為我們還是要準備原來的鐵箱還是要放在裡面,如果說有地緣政治危險的時候,那個鐵箱還是要趕快到"},{"start":341.011,"end":346.934,"text":"所以你這個戰備物資並不是要儲存戰備的一些部分那你這邊寫戰備物資嚇死人但是我還是要請問一下為什麼會做這樣的一個聯想因為在這個我們2022年的時候惡霧戰爭爆發吳密查前院長曾經跟BBC特別提到了這是我們成立第一次戰爭應變的演練而且你諮詢的國安軍方跟警察單位請問有這樣的一回事對不對"},{"start":368.142,"end":383.091,"text":"對跟委員報告因為故宮被列為重要的國土的一個相關設施所以基本上來講國土辦列管的單位所以我們每年都要做演練好那你對你們剛吳前院長非常擔心戰爭對故宮的設備的一個破壞還有被敵軍搶奪他非常擔心所以你們不管在煽動各方面的防震技術做好的準備那我請問真的要是發生的話請問下一步會是什麼"},{"start":393.737,"end":395.62,"text":"你完全就像馮明珠前院長說的故宮文物最安全的地方就在故宮本地"},{"start":409.238,"end":426.81,"text":"因為故宮基本上來講文物都在地下半地下或是山洞裡面所以相對國內其他的博物館的話我們是最安全的而且故宮當初的選擇那個地方的地形、地貌來講的話它就是有一些黃空上面的一個考量"},{"start":427.21,"end":448.469,"text":"所以對我個人來說文物的保存最重要你說在我們的這個山洞庫房當中如果它的防震係數跟山下的部分來說的話誰比較高山洞的防護係數跟因為你相信很多地方你的地震頻繁嘛你要由鄉轉貴嘛對不對所以對我個人來說文物的地方是哪個地方防震係數最高就哪個地方是最安全的這你同意吧"},{"start":448.689,"end":454.191,"text":"我只要百分之百確定你說的戰備物資儲存這個絕對不是你們如字面上所說因為你又開始提到地緣政治又提到戰爭絕對不是放鞭炮放什麼東西戰備物資不是鞭炮好不好就已經不是鞭炮等級了院長我知道啦我形容啦我形容啦我形容"},{"start":474.94,"end":476.681,"text":"我們的鐵箱包裝器材維護工具是這樣的意思因為鐵箱的話文物遷出來的話鐵箱還是要有一個地方放"},{"start":494.346,"end":519.107,"text":"所以說措辭請清楚一點我剛剛看助理拿回來今天把我活活的嚇死了好不好還有就是最後一個我還是要問到包括你的人力就是這個史博館裡面我們往後面史博館因為他的玻璃販賣店擋住紅牆所以讓很多人很多批評故宮現在你要加蓋玻璃我擋上黃牆之前已經被臺北市的文資局否決了如果這次再被否決院長你要不要負責"},{"start":520.638,"end":537.323,"text":"基本上來講的話有4家廠商一家的話做了玻璃入口然後他竊屏中險得標了所以他報了第一次文資局不同意但是他可以再修訂修訂以後再送文資局文資局如果不同意的話我們要他變更計畫"},{"start":538.243,"end":538.723,"text":"這是南美館 這個不是故宮未來這是南美館"},{"start":567.952,"end":596.689,"text":"我知道了所以我現在告訴你原來要做個故宮的這個部分裡面我只從南美館來告訴你要做個玻璃圍牆南美館已經告訴你打著傘戴著太陽眼鏡在喝下午茶因為做Ryde好不好你現在從頭到尾都要用玻璃的圍幕會不會發生同樣的狀況在所謂的這個氣候變遷的狀況之下全部用玻璃你的冷氣要開到多大才有辦法我當然知道它是南美館就是以它的例子告訴你故宮在這樣一個文化修復當中你要破壞"},{"start":597.489,"end":599.05,"text":"請好好慎重我今天時間的關係我還是要請著院長你要慎重對於我們的故宮的保存要免嚴肅的面帶文化界每個人都在看可不可以"},{"start":623.706,"end":646.29,"text":"我還是對玻璃帷幕非常的有意見因為你若在同樣的地方他是遮住了整個非常大的一個方向不是只有我不要以國使館錯誤的一個經驗請不要讓他自己的經驗又重新發生在我們的故宮這才是我們國家的寶物好不好"},{"start":646.61,"end":674.709,"text":"報告委員因為我行政程序還是要走要不然的話會有禮業爭議我當然知道啦我只是告訴你如果他再被否決的話請你們好好的對於玻璃的放棄還是再出的修建請院長不要不要再顧著於這個所謂你們建築師的想法吧這是我們最後的一個提醒我想我們會以社會最大的共識來做好吧我希望在下一個會期裡面站在我前面的應該還是你了好不好不管是公開或是私下的徵詢好謝謝"}]}}}}