{"id":152304,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152304","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9fa9bc2102b9cf71a8ee244109418ff26811336f4541176936499d1b681a2ac72b84f17dd0fda0a55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳秀寳","委員發言時間":"10:13:59 - 10:27:38","影片長度":"00:13:39","會議時間":"2024-05-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席就「回首百年放眼未來-故宮定位與部會級博物館公共責任總檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-08","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-11"},"duration":819,"end_time":"2024-05-08T10:27:38+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-08T10:13:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":383,"blocks":[["陳委員秀寳：（10時14分）謝謝主席，請院長。"],["主席：好，有請院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：陳委員早。"],["陳委員秀寳：院長早安。今天其實每一位委員都很關心翠玉白菜的安危，也覺得故宮在保存文物這一塊不夠謹慎，剛才院長您都已經答詢了。這邊本席想要再請教院長的是，目前我們針對文物的保存，是不是有制定相關的遵循事項？"],["蕭院長宗煌：有，其實我們有很多相關的規則。"],["陳委員秀寳：你們是不是應該都會滾動檢討，會不定期的拿出來檢視？"],["蕭院長宗煌：從我去年就任以後，我就要求同仁盤點所有的法規、命令及作業規則，所以已經盤點了一大堆，在下半年我們會出版法規彙編跟作業手冊。"],["陳委員秀寳：是因為還不夠詳細嗎？還是還不夠嚴謹嗎？為什麼會出這樣子的事情呢？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為相關的作業要點或是作業須知、作業準則，就是要點很多，所以它沒有一個……為什麼我說要出版手冊呢？手冊就是要把它統統集結在一起。"],["陳委員秀寳：院長，其實剛才您有答詢過，我知道你有答詢過了，我這邊要要求的就是，你們經過這次的事件之後，把所有的這些SOP全部再檢討過，好嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["陳委員秀寳：希望你們用更嚴謹的態度去對待我們的文物，不能用這麼鬆散的心態來辦理相關事宜。"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，故宮絕對是嚴謹的，但的確是有疏失，這個我們承認。"],["陳委員秀寳：一定要檢討。接下來，今天早上有多位委員都非常關心蕭院長有沒有被徵詢是否會繼續擔任我們故宮的院長，對於未來故宮會由誰繼續帶領，大家都非常地關心，但是本席在這邊的重點是有一個說法讓本席覺得非常地遺憾，就是在新任院長人選還沒有公布之前，有人就用性別當作議題來聲稱如果新任的院長是女性，那國寶就不再是國寶。院長，你覺得這樣的說法恰當嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：國寶永遠是國寶，國寶有兩種，一種是文資局審定的國寶或重要國物；一種是民眾認知的，也就是故宮的人氣國寶，像翠玉白菜。"],["陳委員秀寳：院長，國寶的定義跟新任院長的性別毫無關係……"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有關係。"],["陳委員秀寳：所以本席覺得非常地遺憾，竟然有這樣的言論，明年故宮就要迎來百年的院慶，會面臨很多的挑戰，以及我們也有無限的可能，性別不是適任的標準，專業才是。","院長，針對目前很熱烈討論的現代藝術跟博物館等建築結合的議題，最近史博館的玻璃盒跟故宮的玻璃亭被熱烈的討論並對比。院長，您過去曾擔任文化部次長，如果用文化跟博物館學的角度來看，針對現代建築美學跟博物館建築的新舊風格如何融合，您有什麼看法？"],["蕭院長宗煌：古蹟跟新的建築融合，其實在全世界的範例，並不是沒有這樣的一個範例，但是以故宮的案例，它在2022年招標，有4家廠商投標，1家得標，得標廠商就是造一個玻璃入口，它因為這樣而得標，得標後第一次送臺北市文資局審議，沒有審過，可是我上任之後，我不能剝奪它的修正權，所以基本上我要求它根據社會的意見以及臺北市文資局的意見去做修正，所以它把量體縮小、斜屋頂縮小，但是在我們跟民眾一個公開閱覽的過程裡面，還是有很多的意見，這個部分我們也把所有的媒體報導跟民眾的意見統統再彙整給建築師團隊，請他們去做因應。基本上來講，如果它修訂之後再送臺北市文資局審議有不通過的情況的話，我們就會要求它變更設計。"],["陳委員秀寳：謝謝院長，您有說會彙整相關的意見，其實當初採用玻璃的想法，可能因為覺得它是透明的，對於建築物的遮蔽可能就是比較不會讓民眾覺得很違和。但是如果以史博館的這個例子，因為史博館的玻璃盒真的讓民眾感覺太突兀，但如果你們要參考羅浮宮、大英博物館都有使用玻璃建築這樣子的作法，其實本席在這邊不討論故宮的玻璃亭是不是要興建，這個興建與否不是我關注的焦點，而是在仿古跟現代的爭執中，所謂的去中化就真的想太多、想得太複雜，單純的建築美學與文化的結合，不要滲入太多的政治色彩，也希望在文資法規允許的範圍之內，故宮可以去廣納民間的意見，就像剛剛院長您講的，你們會彙整所有的意見來給建築師參考，對民眾來說，其實能有舒適的空間、順眼不違和的美感才是他們對博物館的期待。","接下來再跟院長來討論，就是故宮跟北榮在昨天有簽署合作備忘錄，宣布今牌人生認知牌卡正式發行，這一份裡面會有60張牌卡還有一個手冊，上面的圖卡其實都是故宮的經典文物，十分細緻，也讓民眾可以藉這個機會來接觸到故宮很珍貴的文物，透過這個圖卡上面的文物引導失智症患者來對話，也促進他們認知能力的訓練，在醫學期刊上，甚至北榮神經醫學中心的副主任對這個圖卡的作用也非常認可，認為這個是真的可以幫助到失智症患者。我非常肯定故宮在推廣樂齡教育這個服務很用心，也希望故宮能持續地來推廣。在這邊請教院長，你們跟北榮簽署合備忘錄之後，有沒有預計如何來推廣這麼好的今牌人生認知牌卡？"],["蕭院長宗煌：有關於3年的合作備忘錄，第一個，我們在持續推動這個牌卡之外，還希望有更進階的，譬如說我們可以利用數位科技讓這個牌卡進入到AR、VR的情況，另外就是未來是不是可以用AI來提升認知，我想這3年的時間我們可以去做研議。"],["陳委員秀寳：比如說，跟衛福部的醫療院所或是教育部的樂齡中心來合作，這個你們有沒有考慮？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們不排除跟所有的醫療院所合作，因為那天我們也跟榮總講，就是說我們儘量、儘量，譬如說我在臺灣博物館的時候就跟臺北聯合醫學中心合作，然後有所謂的社會處方箋，去看醫生，醫生開一個處方說你要去看博物館，類似這樣的情況，我們未來會有更多元的合作。"],["陳委員秀寳：像剛才我這邊問您的時候提到教育部的樂齡中心，我希望你們可以積極、主動的去推廣，因為他們不見得知道……"],["蕭院長宗煌：是，我們會跟教育部樂齡中心及衛福部來聯絡。"],["陳委員秀寳：因為他們不見得知道有這麼好的一個牌卡可以使用，希望後續你們要持續的推展，有這麼好的作品、產品，不要讓它曇花一現，要讓更多的民眾可以使用，也讓故宮的文物可以走入生活中。"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告一下，我們現在北院做的是60件的故宮藏品，我要求故宮南院是以織品為中心，然後把臺灣民俗的八仙綵、102215紅雞肚的那些織品，包括繡花鞋，還有原住民的這些織品都進來……"],["陳委員秀寳：所以說這個牌卡是第一套，還會有第二套、第三套？以後都還會有？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，南院的話，我會要求南院做這個部分。"],["陳委員秀寳：謝謝院長的用心。我再跟主席借一點時間，剛才也有很多位委員問過了，有關於故宮的文物保存修護人員，故宮有超過70萬件的文物，但是我們目前的文物修護人員只有16位，編制內的技術人員有即將退休的，因為員額的關係，你們還遇缺不補，所以代表之後的文物修護人員可能會只剩下13位。依照博物館法的規定，得依預算法設置作業基金，作業基金的用途包括編制外人員人事支出，以自籌收入百分之三十為限。目前我們有4位是透過基金來聘請的，本席記得去年在審查預算的時候，本來你們故宮的文物藝術發展基金編列的業務收入是3億5,885萬，本席有提案增列，所以變成是3億6,885萬，如果依法在百分之三十之內可以作為人事支出的話，故宮應該有很大的空間可以聘請修護人員，請問故宮有沒有這樣的規劃來增加人力？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們希望今年開始故宮的人力慢慢回流，因為門票收入是故宮收入的一個很重要的部分，這樣我們基金有盈餘的話，就可以聘請更多的人員。"],["陳委員秀寳：所以院長有這樣的規劃，就是以這樣的基金來支應擴編人力的部分？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，當然我們會重新盤點所有的人力，因為剛剛委員資料上面也提到，我們的技工退休後就是遇缺不補，所以現在第一個，我們就是控管院長的司機，院長的司機就是退休不補，然後把那個缺留給比較必要的，接下來的話就控管副院長的司機，也就是說，這個部分我們會整體盤整人力，然後做更有效的運用，讓修護的人力可以增補。"],["陳委員秀寳：謝謝院長、副院長的用心。我這邊再提一下，故宮也有修護實習生，是協助修護人員在進行比較非核心的修護工作、協助工作，這幾年故宮每年錄取大概10到15名的修護實習生，但因為修護空間的搬遷時程不確定，我們現在只收4位，有2位是外籍、2位是本國籍，你們跟教育部青發署洽談的是114年會分到5名喔，請問這5名是額外的名額還是在這10到15名之內？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講是這樣，因為今年我們在整修空間，整修空間就沒有多餘的能量去收納實習生，要不然我們歷年都增長到最高有14位，所以我們希望等到新故宮計畫北院這邊處理好了以後，我們可以5位是外加的，如果以之前最高14位再加5位的話，我們希望實習生可以到20位，可是這會牽涉到一個問題，就是說，南藝大的古物維護研究所到底有沒有那麼多研究生，不可能把所有研究生通通抓來我們這邊實習，所以……"],["陳委員秀寳：儘量搶啊！"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們會努力。"],["陳委員秀寳：這邊請教院長，在故宮實習過的實習生，截至目前為止有83位，我相信他們在故宮實習的寶貴經驗，對我們臺灣培育文物修護人才是有很大的助益，如果這些畢業生以後來故宮這邊應聘、應徵的話，你們會不會優先錄用？"],["蕭院長宗煌：報告委員，故宮修復部門的洪科長就是在故宮實習的，其實我們裡面起碼有三、四位是在故宮實習後到故宮任職的。"],["陳委員秀寳：因為他們有這樣的經驗，也有這樣的默契，所以你們會優先來錄用。院長，有沒有考慮在暑期提供短期的工讀計畫來緩解修護人力的不足？就是這些實習生可以來做短期的支援？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為暑期的話就是實習，實習的話，基本上來講，進入到庫房要經過一個專業的基礎訓練，不是任何人都可以進庫房，因為基本上來講也不是很簡單的一個勤前教育就可以進入，所以工讀生的部分只能做周邊的工作，他不可能進入到修復室裡面。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，謝謝院長，我相信我們民眾對故宮的期待，除了你們在保存文物的這個最大工作之外，對於修護文物人才的培育，我相信民眾也非常的關心，就是我們這樣人才會不會斷層？我們是不是持續有人才、人力可以接應上？所以也希望故宮對於文物修護人員的培訓能夠多加規劃。以上，謝謝。"],["蕭院長宗煌：修復是故宮重中之重，我們會特別注意。"],["主席：謝謝陳秀寳委員，院長請回。","接下來請張雅琳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":64,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-11","speakers":["林宜瑾","萬美玲","柯志恩","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","張雅琳","吳沛憶","吳春城","葉元之","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","林倩綺","范雲","林楚茵","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetin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故宮定位與部會級博物館公共責任\n總檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134301_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"152304","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152304","tool":"pyannote","id":"152304-pyannote"},"job_id":"tPQydswdPUoLbaMs","queued_at":"2024-05-31 10:40:05","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 10:40:46","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152304"},{"time":"2024-05-31 10:40:47","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9fa9bc2102b9cf71a8ee244109418ff26811336f454117696eab1fa219a63fcd2336f55ff0e399365ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-31 10:41:11","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-31 10:41:13","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-05-31 10:41:25","msg":"status: 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{\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 398.512, \"end\": 399.553, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"廣\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 399.553, \"end\": 399.774, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 399.774, \"end\": 400.154, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 400.154, \"end\": 400.334, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"牌\", \"start\": 400.334, \"end\": 400.495, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 400.495, \"end\": 400.655, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 400.655, \"end\": 401.015, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"牌\", \"start\": 401.015, \"end\": 401.256, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"卡\", \"start\": 401.256, \"end\": 401.276, \"score\": 0.998}]}, {\"start\": 403.041, \"end\": 426.279, \"text\": \"第一個三年的合作配合 第一個就持續推動這個牌卡之外的話我們希望說有更進階的就譬如說我們可以利用數位科技然後讓這個牌卡的話可以進入到AR VR的一個情況那另外的話當然就是說未來是不是可以用AI來提升認知的話我想三年的時間的話我們會去做研議\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 403.041, \"end\": 403.141, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 403.141, \"end\": 403.621, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 403.621, \"end\": 403.822, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 403.822, \"end\": 404.002, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 404.002, \"end\": 404.162, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 404.162, \"end\": 404.302, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 404.302, \"end\": 404.442, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 404.442, \"end\": 404.602, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 404.602, \"end\": 405.042, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 405.042, \"end\": 405.143, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 405.143, \"end\": 405.483, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 405.483, \"end\": 405.703, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 740.074, \"end\": 740.254, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 740.254, \"end\": 740.434, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 740.434, \"end\": 740.554, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 740.554, \"end\": 740.774, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"故\", \"start\": 740.774, \"end\": 740.894, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"宮\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"習\"}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 740.894, \"end\": 741.134, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 741.134, \"end\": 741.315, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"故\", \"start\": 741.315, \"end\": 741.415, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"宮\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 741.415, \"end\": 741.435, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 741.435, \"end\": 741.455, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 743.621, \"end\": 757.686, \"text\": \"所以說因為他們有這樣的經驗也有這樣的默契所以你們會優先的來入用那有沒有考慮說在暑期的時候提供短期的公讀計畫來緩解修復人力的不足就是這些實習生他們可以來在短期的支援\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 743.621, \"end\": 743.781, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 743.781, \"end\": 744.081, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 744.081, \"end\": 744.341, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 744.341, \"end\": 744.561, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 744.561, \"end\": 744.881, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 744.881, \"end\": 745.402, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"驗\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 745.402, \"end\": 745.502, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 745.502, \"end\": 745.782, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 745.782, \"end\": 745.902, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"默\", \"start\": 745.902, \"end\": 746.162, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"契\", \"start\": 746.162, \"end\": 746.362, \"score\": 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\"end\": 753.384, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 753.384, \"end\": 753.745, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"復\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 753.745, \"end\": 753.885, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 753.885, \"end\": 753.985, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 753.985, \"end\": 754.125, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 754.125, \"end\": 754.345, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"足\", \"start\": 754.345, \"end\": 754.525, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 754.525, \"end\": 754.625, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 754.625, \"end\": 754.965, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 754.965, \"end\": 755.405, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"習\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 755.405, \"end\": 755.625, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 755.625, \"end\": 755.885, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 755.885, \"end\": 756.005, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 756.005, \"end\": 756.405, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 756.405, \"end\": 756.585, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"短\", \"start\": 756.585, \"end\": 756.846, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 756.846, \"end\": 757.246, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 757.246, \"end\": 757.506, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 757.506, \"end\": 757.666, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"援\", \"start\": 757.666, \"end\": 757.686, \"score\": 0.055}]}, {\"start\": 759.437, \"end\": 781.258, \"text\": \"因為暑期的話就是實習那實習的話基本上來講的話進入到庫房要經過一個專業的基礎訓練不是任何人都可以進庫房因為基本上來講的話也不是說很簡單的一個行前教育就可以進入所以這個部分的話公讀生的部分他只能做周邊的一個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 759.437, \"end\": 760.838, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"暑\", \"start\": 760.838, \"end\": 761.099, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 761.099, \"end\": 761.279, \"score\": 0.902}, 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\"宮\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 808.057, \"end\": 808.157, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 808.157, \"end\": 808.338, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 808.338, \"end\": 808.558, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 808.558, \"end\": 809.058, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"復\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 809.058, \"end\": 809.198, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 809.198, \"end\": 809.599, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 809.599, \"end\": 809.759, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"培\", \"start\": 809.759, \"end\": 810.179, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"訓\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 810.179, \"end\": 810.579, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 810.579, \"end\": 810.86, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 810.86, \"end\": 811.0, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 811.0, \"end\": 811.02, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 811.02, \"end\": 811.04, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:00,409\n秀寳委員\n\n2\n00:00:19,934 --> 00:00:39,659\n陳委員早院長早安那今天其實每位委員都很關心我們翠玉白菜的安委也覺得我們故宮在保存文物這一塊不夠謹慎那剛才院長你都已經答詢了這邊本席想要再請教院長是說目前我們針對文物的保存是不是有制定相關的遵循的事項\n\n3\n00:00:41,501 --> 00:01:05,435\n有其實我們有很多相關的規則我們是不是應該都會滾動檢討會不定期的拿出來解釋對就是從我今年就任以後我就要求同仁盤點所有的法規命令然後那個什麼作業規則所以我們已經盤點了一大堆就是在下半年的話我們會出版那所以是因為還不夠詳細嗎還是說還不夠嚴謹嗎為什麼會出這樣子的事情\n\n4\n00:01:10,097 --> 00:01:34,866\n因為相關的作業要點或是作業希致作業準則的話就是有點善就是說這個要點會很多所以他沒有一個就為什麼我說我要出版手冊呢?手冊就是要把它通通集結在我這邊要要求就是說你們經過這次的事件之後再把所有的這些SOP全部再檢討過好嗎?是\n\n5\n00:01:36,647 --> 00:01:41,777\n希望說我們用更嚴謹的態度對待我們的文物不能用這麼鬆散的心態來辦理相關事宜故宮絕對是嚴謹的但是的確是有疏失這個我們承認\n\n6\n00:01:48,479 --> 00:01:56,583\n一定要檢討那接下來呢今天早上也多位委員都非常的關心蕭院長你有沒有被徵詢是不是會繼續來擔任我們故宮的院長對未來故宮會由誰繼續帶領大家都非常的關心但是本席在這邊的重點是有一個說法讓我本席覺得非常的遺憾\n\n7\n00:02:08,189 --> 00:02:13,433\n就是在新任院長還沒有人選沒有公布之前呢有人就用性別當作議題來聲稱如果新任的院長是女性那國寶就不再是國寶院長你覺得這樣的說法恰當嗎\n\n8\n00:02:21,818 --> 00:02:46,327\n國寶永遠是國寶,國寶的話有兩種,一種的話是我們自己審定的國寶中藥國物,一種是民眾認知的,就故宮的人氣國寶,像崔一白猜黑。國寶的定義跟新任院長的性別毫無關係,所以本席覺得非常的遺憾,竟然有這樣的言論,那明年故宮就要迎來百年的院慶,會面臨很多的挑戰,我們也有無限的可能,性別不是適應的標準,專業才是。\n\n9\n00:02:49,008 --> 00:02:56,594\n好接下來院長針對我們目前很熱烈討論的現代藝術跟博物館等建築結合的這個議題最近這個史博館的玻璃盒跟故宮的玻璃亭被熱烈的討論並對比那院長您過去曾擔任文化部次長如果用文化跟博物館學的角度來看\n\n10\n00:03:14,489 --> 00:03:21,465\n針對說現代建築美學跟博物館的建築的新舊風格這樣如何融合,您有什麼看法?\n\n11\n00:03:23,364 --> 00:03:43,041\n古蹟跟新的建築融合其實在全世界的範例就是說並不是沒有有這樣的一個範例但是因為故宮的案例的話是2022年就是他招標然後就是有廠商四家廠商有一家得標得標的廠商的話他就是造一個玻璃入口那因為他\n\n12\n00:03:43,962 --> 00:04:10,535\n因為這樣他得標了那得標的話當然第一次送那個臺北市文集審沒有審過可是我上任之後我不能剝奪他的修正權所以基本上來講的話我要求他根據社會的意見然後還有那個臺北市文集集的意見去做修正所以他把量體縮小了把那個協議頂縮小了但是在我們跟民眾的一個公開夜燃的過程裡面還是有很多的意見\n\n13\n00:04:11,175 --> 00:04:11,195\n陳秀寳議員\n\n14\n00:04:26,580 --> 00:04:28,342\n謝謝院長您有說會彙整相關的意見那其實當初採用玻璃的想法可能因為覺得它是透明的對於這個建築物的遮蔽可能就是比較不會讓民眾覺得很違和\n\n15\n00:04:43,058 --> 00:05:09,688\n但是如果說史博館的這個例子因為史博館的玻璃盒真的讓民眾感覺太突兀但如果說你們要參考羅浮宮、大英博物館都有使用這個玻璃建築這樣子的做法呢其實本席在這邊我不討論說我們這個故宮的玻璃亭是不是要興建這個興建與否不是我關注的焦點而是說在反古跟現代爭執中所謂的去中化就真的想太多想得太複雜\n\n16\n00:05:10,868 --> 00:05:11,208\n接下來再跟院長來討論\n\n17\n00:05:39,326 --> 00:05:49,917\n就是故宮跟北榮在昨天有簽署合作備忘錄宣布這個金牌人生認知的這個牌卡正式發行那這次一份裡面會有60張的牌卡還有一個手冊那上面的圖卡其實都是故宮的經典文物啦十分的細緻也讓民眾可以藉這個機會來接觸到我們故宮很珍貴的這些文物\n\n18\n00:06:02,509 --> 00:06:22,211\n那透過這個圖卡上面的文物來引導這個失智症的患者來對話呢也促進他們認知能力的訓練那在醫學期刊上啦甚至說北榮神經醫學中心的副職人對這個圖卡的這個作用呢也非常的認可就是說其實這個真的也可以幫助到失智症患者\n\n19\n00:06:23,353 --> 00:06:41,276\n我非常肯定說我們故宮在推廣樂齡教育這個服務也很用心也希望說故宮你們能持續的來推廣那在這邊請問叫院長就是說你們跟北榮簽署的這個合作備忘錄之後呢有沒有預計如何來推廣這個這麼好的這個金牌人生這個牌卡\n\n20\n00:06:43,041 --> 00:07:06,279\n第一個三年的合作配合第一個就持續推動這個牌卡之外的話我們希望說有更進階的就譬如說我們可以利用數位科技然後讓這個牌卡的話可以進入到ARVR的一個情況那另外的話當然就是說未來是不是可以用AI來提升認知的話我想三年的時間的話我們會去做研議\n\n21\n00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:13,337\n那比如說跟衛福部的醫療院所或是教育部的樂齡中心來合作這個你們有沒有考慮?\n\n22\n00:07:14,578 --> 00:07:37,451\n我們不排除跟所有的醫療院所合作因為在那天的話我們也跟榮總講就是說我們盡量盡量譬如說我在臺灣博物館的時候我們就跟那個臺北聯合醫學中心去合作然後有那個所謂的社會處方簽去看醫生醫生開一個處方說你要去看博物館類似這樣的情況的話我們未來的話有更多人的合作\n\n23\n00:07:39,313 --> 00:07:45,300\n教育部的熱靈中心希望你們可以積極主動推廣是,我們跟在部熱靈中心跟衛福部會來聯絡\n\n24\n00:07:47,406 --> 00:07:47,586\n臺灣的民俗的\n\n25\n00:08:15,498 --> 00:08:19,720\n有很多位委員有問過了關於我們故宮文物這些我們的保存人員我們的修復人員\n\n26\n00:08:43,110 --> 00:08:50,373\n故宮有超過70萬件的文物但是我們目前文物修復人員只有16位那在編制內的技術人員有即將退休的那因為原額你們還欲缺不補所以代表之後呢之後的文物修復人員可能會只剩下13位那依照博物館法的規定預算法可以設置就是設置作業基金那作業基金呢可以作為編制外人員的人事支出以自籌30%為限\n\n27\n00:09:12,523 --> 00:09:18,329\n那目前我們有四位是透過基金來聘請的那本席記得去年在審查預算的時候呢本來你們故宮的文物藝術發展基金編列的業務收入是3億5885萬那本席有提增列所以變成是3億6885萬那如果說依法在30%之內可以作為人事支出的話\n\n28\n00:09:36,547 --> 00:09:37,828\n所以院長有這樣的規劃就是說以這樣的基金來支應擴編人力的這個部分\n\n29\n00:10:04,180 --> 00:10:30,157\n對那當然就是說我們會重新盤點所有的人力因為剛剛委員資料上面也講說我們的巨工就是退休一切不補所以現在第一個的話我們就控管那個院長的司機院長司機的話退休不補然後把那個錢留給那個留給那個必要的接下來的話就控管副院長的司機就是說他這個部分的話我想我們會\n\n30\n00:10:31,218 --> 00:10:37,461\n謝謝院長副院長您用心我再提一下我們故宮也有修復實習生是協助修復人員在進行比較非核心的修復工作一些協助的工作這幾年故宮單位都會入企每年入企大概10到15名的修復實習生\n\n31\n00:10:53,829 --> 00:11:13,822\n再來呢如果說因為修復空間搬遷這個時程不確定我們現在只死收四位有兩位外籍兩位是本國籍那你們這邊跟教育部清發署洽談了114年你們會分到有五名那這五名是額外的名額還是在這十到十五名之內\n\n32\n00:11:15,603 --> 00:11:30,883\n基本上來講的話是這樣就是因為今年的話今年的話是因為我們在整修空間整修空間的話沒有多餘的能量去收納實習生要不然的話我們歷年都增長到最高有14位所以我們希望說等到新故宮計畫\n\n33\n00:11:32,205 --> 00:11:32,385\n陳秀寳議員陳秀寳\n\n34\n00:11:54,275 --> 00:12:21,455\n這邊請教院長在故宮實習過的實習生截至目前為止有83位那我相信說他們在故宮實習這個寶貴的經驗對我們台灣培育這個文物的修復人才是有很大的注意那如果說這些畢業生以後來我們故宮這邊應徵的話你們會不會優先入用報告就是故宮的我們的修務的那個洪科長就是在故宮實習的其實我們裡面起碼有三四位是在故宮實習後來到故宮任職的\n\n35\n00:12:23,621 --> 00:12:37,686\n所以說因為他們有這樣的經驗也有這樣的默契所以你們會優先的來入用那有沒有考慮說在暑期的時候提供短期的公讀計畫來緩解修復人力的不足就是這些實習生他們可以來在短期的支援\n\n36\n00:12:39,437 --> 00:13:01,258\n因為暑期的話就是實習那實習的話基本上來講的話進入到庫房要經過一個專業的基礎訓練不是任何人都可以進庫房因為基本上來講的話也不是說很簡單的一個行前教育就可以進入所以這個部分的話公讀生的部分他只能做周邊的一個\n\n37\n00:13:02,219 --> 00:13:02,239\n陳秀寳議員\n\n38\n00:13:27,597 --> 00:13:31,040\n故宮對於文化修復的人員的培訓能夠多加規劃以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t409\t秀寳委員\n19934\t39659\t陳委員早院長早安那今天其實每位委員都很關心我們翠玉白菜的安委也覺得我們故宮在保存文物這一塊不夠謹慎那剛才院長你都已經答詢了這邊本席想要再請教院長是說目前我們針對文物的保存是不是有制定相關的遵循的事項\n41501\t65435\t有其實我們有很多相關的規則我們是不是應該都會滾動檢討會不定期的拿出來解釋對 就是從我今年就任以後我就要求同仁盤點所有的法規命令然後那個什麼作業規則所以我們已經盤點了一大堆就是在下半年的話我們會出版那所以是因為還不夠詳細嗎還是說還不夠嚴謹嗎為什麼會出這樣子的事情\n70097\t94866\t因為相關的作業要點或是作業希致作業準則的話就是有點善就是說這個要點會很多所以他沒有一個就為什麼我說我要出版手冊呢?手冊就是要把它通通集結在我這邊要要求就是說你們經過這次的事件之後再把所有的這些SOP全部再檢討過好嗎?是\n96647\t101777\t希望說我們用更嚴謹的態度對待我們的文物不能用這麼鬆散的心態來辦理相關事宜故宮絕對是嚴謹的但是的確是有疏失這個我們承認\n108479\t116583\t一定要檢討那接下來呢今天早上也多位委員都非常的關心蕭院長你有沒有被徵詢是不是會繼續來擔任我們故宮的院長對未來故宮會由誰繼續帶領大家都非常的關心但是本席在這邊的重點是有一個說法讓我本席覺得非常的遺憾\n128189\t133433\t就是在新任院長還沒有人選沒有公布之前呢有人就用性別當作議題來聲稱如果新任的院長是女性那國寶就不再是國寶院長你覺得這樣的說法恰當嗎\n141818\t166327\t國寶永遠是國寶,國寶的話有兩種,一種的話是我們自己審定的國寶中藥國物,一種是民眾認知的,就故宮的人氣國寶,像崔一白猜黑。國寶的定義跟新任院長的性別毫無關係,所以本席覺得非常的遺憾,竟然有這樣的言論,那明年故宮就要迎來百年的院慶,會面臨很多的挑戰,我們也有無限的可能,性別不是適應的標準,專業才是。\n169008\t176594\t好 接下來院長針對我們目前很熱烈討論的現代藝術跟博物館等建築結合的這個議題最近這個史博館的玻璃盒跟故宮的玻璃亭被熱烈的討論並對比那院長您過去曾擔任文化部次長如果用文化跟博物館學的角度來看\n194489\t201465\t針對說現代建築美學跟博物館的建築的新舊風格這樣如何融合,您有什麼看法?\n203364\t223041\t古蹟跟新的建築融合其實在全世界的範例就是說並不是沒有有這樣的一個範例但是因為故宮的案例的話是2022年就是他招標然後就是有廠商四家廠商有一家得標得標的廠商的話他就是造一個玻璃入口那因為他\n223962\t250535\t因為這樣他得標了那得標的話當然第一次送那個臺北市文集審沒有審過可是我上任之後我不能剝奪他的修正權所以基本上來講的話我要求他根據社會的意見然後還有那個臺北市文集集的意見去做修正所以他把量體縮小了把那個協議頂縮小了但是在我們跟民眾的一個公開夜燃的過程裡面還是有很多的意見\n251175\t251195\t陳秀寳議員\n266580\t268342\t謝謝院長您有說會彙整相關的意見那其實當初採用玻璃的想法可能因為覺得它是透明的對於這個建築物的遮蔽可能就是比較不會讓民眾覺得很違和\n283058\t309688\t但是如果說史博館的這個例子因為史博館的玻璃盒真的讓民眾感覺太突兀但如果說你們要參考羅浮宮、大英博物館都有使用這個玻璃建築這樣子的做法呢其實本席在這邊我不討論說我們這個故宮的玻璃亭是不是要興建這個興建與否不是我關注的焦點而是說在反古跟現代爭執中所謂的去中化就真的想太多想得太複雜\n310868\t311208\t接下來再跟院長來討論\n339326\t349917\t就是故宮跟北榮在昨天有簽署合作備忘錄宣布這個金牌人生認知的這個牌卡正式發行那這次一份裡面會有60張的牌卡還有一個手冊那上面的圖卡其實都是故宮的經典文物啦 十分的細緻也讓民眾可以藉這個機會來接觸到我們故宮很珍貴的這些文物\n362509\t382211\t那透過這個圖卡上面的文物來引導這個失智症的患者來對話呢也促進他們認知能力的訓練那在醫學期刊上啦甚至說北榮神經醫學中心的副職人對這個圖卡的這個作用呢也非常的認可就是說其實這個真的也可以幫助到失智症患者\n383353\t401276\t我非常肯定說我們故宮在推廣樂齡教育這個服務也很用心也希望說故宮你們能持續的來推廣那在這邊請問叫院長就是說你們跟北榮簽署的這個合作備忘錄之後呢有沒有預計如何來推廣這個這麼好的這個金牌人生這個牌卡\n403041\t426279\t第一個三年的合作配合 第一個就持續推動這個牌卡之外的話我們希望說有更進階的就譬如說我們可以利用數位科技然後讓這個牌卡的話可以進入到AR VR的一個情況那另外的話當然就是說未來是不是可以用AI來提升認知的話我想三年的時間的話我們會去做研議\n427040\t433337\t那比如說跟衛福部的醫療院所或是教育部的樂齡中心來合作這個你們有沒有考慮?\n434578\t457451\t我們不排除跟所有的醫療院所合作因為在那天的話我們也跟榮總講就是說我們盡量盡量譬如說我在臺灣博物館的時候我們就跟那個臺北聯合醫學中心去合作然後有那個所謂的社會處方簽去看醫生醫生開一個處方說你要去看博物館類似這樣的情況的話我們未來的話有更多人的合作\n459313\t465300\t教育部的熱靈中心希望你們可以積極主動推廣是,我們跟在部熱靈中心跟衛福部會來聯絡\n467406\t467586\t臺灣的民俗的\n495498\t499720\t有很多位委員有問過了關於我們故宮文物這些我們的保存人員我們的修復人員\n523110\t530373\t故宮有超過70萬件的文物但是我們目前文物修復人員只有16位那在編制內的技術人員有即將退休的那因為原額你們還欲缺不補所以代表之後呢之後的文物修復人員可能會只剩下13位那依照博物館法的規定預算法可以設置就是設置作業基金那作業基金呢可以作為編制外人員的人事支出以自籌30%為限\n552523\t558329\t那目前我們有四位是透過基金來聘請的那本席記得去年在審查預算的時候呢本來你們故宮的文物藝術發展基金編列的業務收入是3億5885萬那本席有提增列所以變成是3億6885萬那如果說依法在30%之內可以作為人事支出的話\n576547\t577828\t所以院長有這樣的規劃就是說以這樣的基金來支應擴編人力的這個部分\n604180\t630157\t對那當然就是說我們會重新盤點所有的人力因為剛剛委員資料上面也講說我們的巨工就是退休一切不補所以現在第一個的話我們就控管那個院長的司機院長司機的話退休不補然後把那個錢留給那個留給那個必要的接下來的話就控管副院長的司機就是說他這個部分的話我想我們會\n631218\t637461\t謝謝院長 副院長您用心我再提一下我們故宮也有修復實習生是協助修復人員在進行比較非核心的修復工作一些協助的工作這幾年故宮單位都會入企每年入企大概10到15名的修復實習生\n653829\t673822\t再來呢 如果說因為修復空間 搬遷這個時程不確定我們現在只死收四位 有兩位外籍 兩位是本國籍那你們這邊跟教育部清發署洽談了114年你們會分到有五名那這五名是額外的名額還是在這十到十五名之內\n675603\t690883\t基本上來講的話是這樣就是因為今年的話今年的話是因為我們在整修空間整修空間的話沒有多餘的能量去收納實習生要不然的話我們歷年都增長到最高有14位所以我們希望說等到新故宮計畫\n692205\t692385\t陳秀寳議員陳秀寳\n714275\t741455\t這邊請教院長在故宮實習過的實習生截至目前為止有83位那我相信說他們在故宮實習這個寶貴的經驗對我們台灣培育這個文物的修復人才是有很大的注意那如果說這些畢業生以後來我們故宮這邊應徵的話你們會不會優先入用報告就是故宮的我們的修務的那個洪科長就是在故宮實習的其實我們裡面起碼有三四位是在故宮實習後來到故宮任職的\n743621\t757686\t所以說因為他們有這樣的經驗也有這樣的默契所以你們會優先的來入用那有沒有考慮說在暑期的時候提供短期的公讀計畫來緩解修復人力的不足就是這些實習生他們可以來在短期的支援\n759437\t781258\t因為暑期的話就是實習那實習的話基本上來講的話進入到庫房要經過一個專業的基礎訓練不是任何人都可以進庫房因為基本上來講的話也不是說很簡單的一個行前教育就可以進入所以這個部分的話公讀生的部分他只能做周邊的一個\n782219\t782239\t陳秀寳議員\n807597\t811040\t故宮對於文化修復的人員的培訓能夠多加規劃以上謝謝\n","txt":"秀寳委員\n陳委員早院長早安那今天其實每位委員都很關心我們翠玉白菜的安委也覺得我們故宮在保存文物這一塊不夠謹慎那剛才院長你都已經答詢了這邊本席想要再請教院長是說目前我們針對文物的保存是不是有制定相關的遵循的事項\n有其實我們有很多相關的規則我們是不是應該都會滾動檢討會不定期的拿出來解釋對 就是從我今年就任以後我就要求同仁盤點所有的法規命令然後那個什麼作業規則所以我們已經盤點了一大堆就是在下半年的話我們會出版那所以是因為還不夠詳細嗎還是說還不夠嚴謹嗎為什麼會出這樣子的事情\n因為相關的作業要點或是作業希致作業準則的話就是有點善就是說這個要點會很多所以他沒有一個就為什麼我說我要出版手冊呢?手冊就是要把它通通集結在我這邊要要求就是說你們經過這次的事件之後再把所有的這些SOP全部再檢討過好嗎?是\n希望說我們用更嚴謹的態度對待我們的文物不能用這麼鬆散的心態來辦理相關事宜故宮絕對是嚴謹的但是的確是有疏失這個我們承認\n一定要檢討那接下來呢今天早上也多位委員都非常的關心蕭院長你有沒有被徵詢是不是會繼續來擔任我們故宮的院長對未來故宮會由誰繼續帶領大家都非常的關心但是本席在這邊的重點是有一個說法讓我本席覺得非常的遺憾\n就是在新任院長還沒有人選沒有公布之前呢有人就用性別當作議題來聲稱如果新任的院長是女性那國寶就不再是國寶院長你覺得這樣的說法恰當嗎\n國寶永遠是國寶,國寶的話有兩種,一種的話是我們自己審定的國寶中藥國物,一種是民眾認知的,就故宮的人氣國寶,像崔一白猜黑。國寶的定義跟新任院長的性別毫無關係,所以本席覺得非常的遺憾,竟然有這樣的言論,那明年故宮就要迎來百年的院慶,會面臨很多的挑戰,我們也有無限的可能,性別不是適應的標準,專業才是。\n好 接下來院長針對我們目前很熱烈討論的現代藝術跟博物館等建築結合的這個議題最近這個史博館的玻璃盒跟故宮的玻璃亭被熱烈的討論並對比那院長您過去曾擔任文化部次長如果用文化跟博物館學的角度來看\n針對說現代建築美學跟博物館的建築的新舊風格這樣如何融合,您有什麼看法?\n古蹟跟新的建築融合其實在全世界的範例就是說並不是沒有有這樣的一個範例但是因為故宮的案例的話是2022年就是他招標然後就是有廠商四家廠商有一家得標得標的廠商的話他就是造一個玻璃入口那因為他\n因為這樣他得標了那得標的話當然第一次送那個臺北市文集審沒有審過可是我上任之後我不能剝奪他的修正權所以基本上來講的話我要求他根據社會的意見然後還有那個臺北市文集集的意見去做修正所以他把量體縮小了把那個協議頂縮小了但是在我們跟民眾的一個公開夜燃的過程裡面還是有很多的意見\n陳秀寳議員\n謝謝院長您有說會彙整相關的意見那其實當初採用玻璃的想法可能因為覺得它是透明的對於這個建築物的遮蔽可能就是比較不會讓民眾覺得很違和\n但是如果說史博館的這個例子因為史博館的玻璃盒真的讓民眾感覺太突兀但如果說你們要參考羅浮宮、大英博物館都有使用這個玻璃建築這樣子的做法呢其實本席在這邊我不討論說我們這個故宮的玻璃亭是不是要興建這個興建與否不是我關注的焦點而是說在反古跟現代爭執中所謂的去中化就真的想太多想得太複雜\n接下來再跟院長來討論\n就是故宮跟北榮在昨天有簽署合作備忘錄宣布這個金牌人生認知的這個牌卡正式發行那這次一份裡面會有60張的牌卡還有一個手冊那上面的圖卡其實都是故宮的經典文物啦 十分的細緻也讓民眾可以藉這個機會來接觸到我們故宮很珍貴的這些文物\n那透過這個圖卡上面的文物來引導這個失智症的患者來對話呢也促進他們認知能力的訓練那在醫學期刊上啦甚至說北榮神經醫學中心的副職人對這個圖卡的這個作用呢也非常的認可就是說其實這個真的也可以幫助到失智症患者\n我非常肯定說我們故宮在推廣樂齡教育這個服務也很用心也希望說故宮你們能持續的來推廣那在這邊請問叫院長就是說你們跟北榮簽署的這個合作備忘錄之後呢有沒有預計如何來推廣這個這麼好的這個金牌人生這個牌卡\n第一個三年的合作配合 第一個就持續推動這個牌卡之外的話我們希望說有更進階的就譬如說我們可以利用數位科技然後讓這個牌卡的話可以進入到AR VR的一個情況那另外的話當然就是說未來是不是可以用AI來提升認知的話我想三年的時間的話我們會去做研議\n那比如說跟衛福部的醫療院所或是教育部的樂齡中心來合作這個你們有沒有考慮?\n我們不排除跟所有的醫療院所合作因為在那天的話我們也跟榮總講就是說我們盡量盡量譬如說我在臺灣博物館的時候我們就跟那個臺北聯合醫學中心去合作然後有那個所謂的社會處方簽去看醫生醫生開一個處方說你要去看博物館類似這樣的情況的話我們未來的話有更多人的合作\n教育部的熱靈中心希望你們可以積極主動推廣是,我們跟在部熱靈中心跟衛福部會來聯絡\n臺灣的民俗的\n有很多位委員有問過了關於我們故宮文物這些我們的保存人員我們的修復人員\n故宮有超過70萬件的文物但是我們目前文物修復人員只有16位那在編制內的技術人員有即將退休的那因為原額你們還欲缺不補所以代表之後呢之後的文物修復人員可能會只剩下13位那依照博物館法的規定預算法可以設置就是設置作業基金那作業基金呢可以作為編制外人員的人事支出以自籌30%為限\n那目前我們有四位是透過基金來聘請的那本席記得去年在審查預算的時候呢本來你們故宮的文物藝術發展基金編列的業務收入是3億5885萬那本席有提增列所以變成是3億6885萬那如果說依法在30%之內可以作為人事支出的話\n所以院長有這樣的規劃就是說以這樣的基金來支應擴編人力的這個部分\n對那當然就是說我們會重新盤點所有的人力因為剛剛委員資料上面也講說我們的巨工就是退休一切不補所以現在第一個的話我們就控管那個院長的司機院長司機的話退休不補然後把那個錢留給那個留給那個必要的接下來的話就控管副院長的司機就是說他這個部分的話我想我們會\n謝謝院長 副院長您用心我再提一下我們故宮也有修復實習生是協助修復人員在進行比較非核心的修復工作一些協助的工作這幾年故宮單位都會入企每年入企大概10到15名的修復實習生\n再來呢 如果說因為修復空間 搬遷這個時程不確定我們現在只死收四位 有兩位外籍 兩位是本國籍那你們這邊跟教育部清發署洽談了114年你們會分到有五名那這五名是額外的名額還是在這十到十五名之內\n基本上來講的話是這樣就是因為今年的話今年的話是因為我們在整修空間整修空間的話沒有多餘的能量去收納實習生要不然的話我們歷年都增長到最高有14位所以我們希望說等到新故宮計畫\n陳秀寳議員陳秀寳\n這邊請教院長在故宮實習過的實習生截至目前為止有83位那我相信說他們在故宮實習這個寶貴的經驗對我們台灣培育這個文物的修復人才是有很大的注意那如果說這些畢業生以後來我們故宮這邊應徵的話你們會不會優先入用報告就是故宮的我們的修務的那個洪科長就是在故宮實習的其實我們裡面起碼有三四位是在故宮實習後來到故宮任職的\n所以說因為他們有這樣的經驗也有這樣的默契所以你們會優先的來入用那有沒有考慮說在暑期的時候提供短期的公讀計畫來緩解修復人力的不足就是這些實習生他們可以來在短期的支援\n因為暑期的話就是實習那實習的話基本上來講的話進入到庫房要經過一個專業的基礎訓練不是任何人都可以進庫房因為基本上來講的話也不是說很簡單的一個行前教育就可以進入所以這個部分的話公讀生的部分他只能做周邊的一個\n陳秀寳議員\n故宮對於文化修復的人員的培訓能夠多加規劃以上謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:00.409\n秀寳委員\n\n00:19.934 --> 00:39.659\n陳委員早院長早安那今天其實每位委員都很關心我們翠玉白菜的安委也覺得我們故宮在保存文物這一塊不夠謹慎那剛才院長你都已經答詢了這邊本席想要再請教院長是說目前我們針對文物的保存是不是有制定相關的遵循的事項\n\n00:41.501 --> 01:05.435\n有其實我們有很多相關的規則我們是不是應該都會滾動檢討會不定期的拿出來解釋對就是從我今年就任以後我就要求同仁盤點所有的法規命令然後那個什麼作業規則所以我們已經盤點了一大堆就是在下半年的話我們會出版那所以是因為還不夠詳細嗎還是說還不夠嚴謹嗎為什麼會出這樣子的事情\n\n01:10.097 --> 01:34.866\n因為相關的作業要點或是作業希致作業準則的話就是有點善就是說這個要點會很多所以他沒有一個就為什麼我說我要出版手冊呢?手冊就是要把它通通集結在我這邊要要求就是說你們經過這次的事件之後再把所有的這些SOP全部再檢討過好嗎?是\n\n01:36.647 --> 01:41.777\n希望說我們用更嚴謹的態度對待我們的文物不能用這麼鬆散的心態來辦理相關事宜故宮絕對是嚴謹的但是的確是有疏失這個我們承認\n\n01:48.479 --> 01:56.583\n一定要檢討那接下來呢今天早上也多位委員都非常的關心蕭院長你有沒有被徵詢是不是會繼續來擔任我們故宮的院長對未來故宮會由誰繼續帶領大家都非常的關心但是本席在這邊的重點是有一個說法讓我本席覺得非常的遺憾\n\n02:08.189 --> 02:13.433\n就是在新任院長還沒有人選沒有公布之前呢有人就用性別當作議題來聲稱如果新任的院長是女性那國寶就不再是國寶院長你覺得這樣的說法恰當嗎\n\n02:21.818 --> 02:46.327\n國寶永遠是國寶,國寶的話有兩種,一種的話是我們自己審定的國寶中藥國物,一種是民眾認知的,就故宮的人氣國寶,像崔一白猜黑。國寶的定義跟新任院長的性別毫無關係,所以本席覺得非常的遺憾,竟然有這樣的言論,那明年故宮就要迎來百年的院慶,會面臨很多的挑戰,我們也有無限的可能,性別不是適應的標準,專業才是。\n\n02:49.008 --> 02:56.594\n好接下來院長針對我們目前很熱烈討論的現代藝術跟博物館等建築結合的這個議題最近這個史博館的玻璃盒跟故宮的玻璃亭被熱烈的討論並對比那院長您過去曾擔任文化部次長如果用文化跟博物館學的角度來看\n\n03:14.489 --> 03:21.465\n針對說現代建築美學跟博物館的建築的新舊風格這樣如何融合,您有什麼看法?\n\n03:23.364 --> 03:43.041\n古蹟跟新的建築融合其實在全世界的範例就是說並不是沒有有這樣的一個範例但是因為故宮的案例的話是2022年就是他招標然後就是有廠商四家廠商有一家得標得標的廠商的話他就是造一個玻璃入口那因為他\n\n03:43.962 --> 04:10.535\n因為這樣他得標了那得標的話當然第一次送那個臺北市文集審沒有審過可是我上任之後我不能剝奪他的修正權所以基本上來講的話我要求他根據社會的意見然後還有那個臺北市文集集的意見去做修正所以他把量體縮小了把那個協議頂縮小了但是在我們跟民眾的一個公開夜燃的過程裡面還是有很多的意見\n\n04:11.175 --> 04:11.195\n陳秀寳議員\n\n04:26.580 --> 04:28.342\n謝謝院長您有說會彙整相關的意見那其實當初採用玻璃的想法可能因為覺得它是透明的對於這個建築物的遮蔽可能就是比較不會讓民眾覺得很違和\n\n04:43.058 --> 05:09.688\n但是如果說史博館的這個例子因為史博館的玻璃盒真的讓民眾感覺太突兀但如果說你們要參考羅浮宮、大英博物館都有使用這個玻璃建築這樣子的做法呢其實本席在這邊我不討論說我們這個故宮的玻璃亭是不是要興建這個興建與否不是我關注的焦點而是說在反古跟現代爭執中所謂的去中化就真的想太多想得太複雜\n\n05:10.868 --> 05:11.208\n接下來再跟院長來討論\n\n05:39.326 --> 05:49.917\n就是故宮跟北榮在昨天有簽署合作備忘錄宣布這個金牌人生認知的這個牌卡正式發行那這次一份裡面會有60張的牌卡還有一個手冊那上面的圖卡其實都是故宮的經典文物啦十分的細緻也讓民眾可以藉這個機會來接觸到我們故宮很珍貴的這些文物\n\n06:02.509 --> 06:22.211\n那透過這個圖卡上面的文物來引導這個失智症的患者來對話呢也促進他們認知能力的訓練那在醫學期刊上啦甚至說北榮神經醫學中心的副職人對這個圖卡的這個作用呢也非常的認可就是說其實這個真的也可以幫助到失智症患者\n\n06:23.353 --> 06:41.276\n我非常肯定說我們故宮在推廣樂齡教育這個服務也很用心也希望說故宮你們能持續的來推廣那在這邊請問叫院長就是說你們跟北榮簽署的這個合作備忘錄之後呢有沒有預計如何來推廣這個這麼好的這個金牌人生這個牌卡\n\n06:43.041 --> 07:06.279\n第一個三年的合作配合第一個就持續推動這個牌卡之外的話我們希望說有更進階的就譬如說我們可以利用數位科技然後讓這個牌卡的話可以進入到ARVR的一個情況那另外的話當然就是說未來是不是可以用AI來提升認知的話我想三年的時間的話我們會去做研議\n\n07:07.040 --> 07:13.337\n那比如說跟衛福部的醫療院所或是教育部的樂齡中心來合作這個你們有沒有考慮?\n\n07:14.578 --> 07:37.451\n我們不排除跟所有的醫療院所合作因為在那天的話我們也跟榮總講就是說我們盡量盡量譬如說我在臺灣博物館的時候我們就跟那個臺北聯合醫學中心去合作然後有那個所謂的社會處方簽去看醫生醫生開一個處方說你要去看博物館類似這樣的情況的話我們未來的話有更多人的合作\n\n07:39.313 --> 07:45.300\n教育部的熱靈中心希望你們可以積極主動推廣是,我們跟在部熱靈中心跟衛福部會來聯絡\n\n07:47.406 --> 07:47.586\n臺灣的民俗的\n\n08:15.498 --> 08:19.720\n有很多位委員有問過了關於我們故宮文物這些我們的保存人員我們的修復人員\n\n08:43.110 --> 08:50.373\n故宮有超過70萬件的文物但是我們目前文物修復人員只有16位那在編制內的技術人員有即將退休的那因為原額你們還欲缺不補所以代表之後呢之後的文物修復人員可能會只剩下13位那依照博物館法的規定預算法可以設置就是設置作業基金那作業基金呢可以作為編制外人員的人事支出以自籌30%為限\n\n09:12.523 --> 09:18.329\n那目前我們有四位是透過基金來聘請的那本席記得去年在審查預算的時候呢本來你們故宮的文物藝術發展基金編列的業務收入是3億5885萬那本席有提增列所以變成是3億6885萬那如果說依法在30%之內可以作為人事支出的話\n\n09:36.547 --> 09:37.828\n所以院長有這樣的規劃就是說以這樣的基金來支應擴編人力的這個部分\n\n10:04.180 --> 10:30.157\n對那當然就是說我們會重新盤點所有的人力因為剛剛委員資料上面也講說我們的巨工就是退休一切不補所以現在第一個的話我們就控管那個院長的司機院長司機的話退休不補然後把那個錢留給那個留給那個必要的接下來的話就控管副院長的司機就是說他這個部分的話我想我們會\n\n10:31.218 --> 10:37.461\n謝謝院長副院長您用心我再提一下我們故宮也有修復實習生是協助修復人員在進行比較非核心的修復工作一些協助的工作這幾年故宮單位都會入企每年入企大概10到15名的修復實習生\n\n10:53.829 --> 11:13.822\n再來呢如果說因為修復空間搬遷這個時程不確定我們現在只死收四位有兩位外籍兩位是本國籍那你們這邊跟教育部清發署洽談了114年你們會分到有五名那這五名是額外的名額還是在這十到十五名之內\n\n11:15.603 --> 11:30.883\n基本上來講的話是這樣就是因為今年的話今年的話是因為我們在整修空間整修空間的話沒有多餘的能量去收納實習生要不然的話我們歷年都增長到最高有14位所以我們希望說等到新故宮計畫\n\n11:32.205 --> 11:32.385\n陳秀寳議員陳秀寳\n\n11:54.275 --> 12:21.455\n這邊請教院長在故宮實習過的實習生截至目前為止有83位那我相信說他們在故宮實習這個寶貴的經驗對我們台灣培育這個文物的修復人才是有很大的注意那如果說這些畢業生以後來我們故宮這邊應徵的話你們會不會優先入用報告就是故宮的我們的修務的那個洪科長就是在故宮實習的其實我們裡面起碼有三四位是在故宮實習後來到故宮任職的\n\n12:23.621 --> 12:37.686\n所以說因為他們有這樣的經驗也有這樣的默契所以你們會優先的來入用那有沒有考慮說在暑期的時候提供短期的公讀計畫來緩解修復人力的不足就是這些實習生他們可以來在短期的支援\n\n12:39.437 --> 13:01.258\n因為暑期的話就是實習那實習的話基本上來講的話進入到庫房要經過一個專業的基礎訓練不是任何人都可以進庫房因為基本上來講的話也不是說很簡單的一個行前教育就可以進入所以這個部分的話公讀生的部分他只能做周邊的一個\n\n13:02.219 --> 13:02.239\n陳秀寳議員\n\n13:27.597 --> 13:31.040\n故宮對於文化修復的人員的培訓能夠多加規劃以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.409,"text":"秀寳委員"},{"start":19.934,"end":39.659,"text":"陳委員早院長早安那今天其實每位委員都很關心我們翠玉白菜的安委也覺得我們故宮在保存文物這一塊不夠謹慎那剛才院長你都已經答詢了這邊本席想要再請教院長是說目前我們針對文物的保存是不是有制定相關的遵循的事項"},{"start":41.501,"end":65.435,"text":"有其實我們有很多相關的規則我們是不是應該都會滾動檢討會不定期的拿出來解釋對 就是從我今年就任以後我就要求同仁盤點所有的法規命令然後那個什麼作業規則所以我們已經盤點了一大堆就是在下半年的話我們會出版那所以是因為還不夠詳細嗎還是說還不夠嚴謹嗎為什麼會出這樣子的事情"},{"start":70.097,"end":94.866,"text":"因為相關的作業要點或是作業希致作業準則的話就是有點善就是說這個要點會很多所以他沒有一個就為什麼我說我要出版手冊呢?手冊就是要把它通通集結在我這邊要要求就是說你們經過這次的事件之後再把所有的這些SOP全部再檢討過好嗎?是"},{"start":96.647,"end":101.777,"text":"希望說我們用更嚴謹的態度對待我們的文物不能用這麼鬆散的心態來辦理相關事宜故宮絕對是嚴謹的但是的確是有疏失這個我們承認"},{"start":108.479,"end":116.583,"text":"一定要檢討那接下來呢今天早上也多位委員都非常的關心蕭院長你有沒有被徵詢是不是會繼續來擔任我們故宮的院長對未來故宮會由誰繼續帶領大家都非常的關心但是本席在這邊的重點是有一個說法讓我本席覺得非常的遺憾"},{"start":128.189,"end":133.433,"text":"就是在新任院長還沒有人選沒有公布之前呢有人就用性別當作議題來聲稱如果新任的院長是女性那國寶就不再是國寶院長你覺得這樣的說法恰當嗎"},{"start":141.818,"end":166.327,"text":"國寶永遠是國寶,國寶的話有兩種,一種的話是我們自己審定的國寶中藥國物,一種是民眾認知的,就故宮的人氣國寶,像崔一白猜黑。國寶的定義跟新任院長的性別毫無關係,所以本席覺得非常的遺憾,竟然有這樣的言論,那明年故宮就要迎來百年的院慶,會面臨很多的挑戰,我們也有無限的可能,性別不是適應的標準,專業才是。"},{"start":169.008,"end":176.594,"text":"好 接下來院長針對我們目前很熱烈討論的現代藝術跟博物館等建築結合的這個議題最近這個史博館的玻璃盒跟故宮的玻璃亭被熱烈的討論並對比那院長您過去曾擔任文化部次長如果用文化跟博物館學的角度來看"},{"start":194.489,"end":201.465,"text":"針對說現代建築美學跟博物館的建築的新舊風格這樣如何融合,您有什麼看法?"},{"start":203.364,"end":223.041,"text":"古蹟跟新的建築融合其實在全世界的範例就是說並不是沒有有這樣的一個範例但是因為故宮的案例的話是2022年就是他招標然後就是有廠商四家廠商有一家得標得標的廠商的話他就是造一個玻璃入口那因為他"},{"start":223.962,"end":250.535,"text":"因為這樣他得標了那得標的話當然第一次送那個臺北市文集審沒有審過可是我上任之後我不能剝奪他的修正權所以基本上來講的話我要求他根據社會的意見然後還有那個臺北市文集集的意見去做修正所以他把量體縮小了把那個協議頂縮小了但是在我們跟民眾的一個公開夜燃的過程裡面還是有很多的意見"},{"start":251.175,"end":251.195,"text":"陳秀寳議員"},{"start":266.58,"end":268.342,"text":"謝謝院長您有說會彙整相關的意見那其實當初採用玻璃的想法可能因為覺得它是透明的對於這個建築物的遮蔽可能就是比較不會讓民眾覺得很違和"},{"start":283.058,"end":309.688,"text":"但是如果說史博館的這個例子因為史博館的玻璃盒真的讓民眾感覺太突兀但如果說你們要參考羅浮宮、大英博物館都有使用這個玻璃建築這樣子的做法呢其實本席在這邊我不討論說我們這個故宮的玻璃亭是不是要興建這個興建與否不是我關注的焦點而是說在反古跟現代爭執中所謂的去中化就真的想太多想得太複雜"},{"start":310.868,"end":311.208,"text":"接下來再跟院長來討論"},{"start":339.326,"end":349.917,"text":"就是故宮跟北榮在昨天有簽署合作備忘錄宣布這個金牌人生認知的這個牌卡正式發行那這次一份裡面會有60張的牌卡還有一個手冊那上面的圖卡其實都是故宮的經典文物啦 十分的細緻也讓民眾可以藉這個機會來接觸到我們故宮很珍貴的這些文物"},{"start":362.509,"end":382.211,"text":"那透過這個圖卡上面的文物來引導這個失智症的患者來對話呢也促進他們認知能力的訓練那在醫學期刊上啦甚至說北榮神經醫學中心的副職人對這個圖卡的這個作用呢也非常的認可就是說其實這個真的也可以幫助到失智症患者"},{"start":383.353,"end":401.276,"text":"我非常肯定說我們故宮在推廣樂齡教育這個服務也很用心也希望說故宮你們能持續的來推廣那在這邊請問叫院長就是說你們跟北榮簽署的這個合作備忘錄之後呢有沒有預計如何來推廣這個這麼好的這個金牌人生這個牌卡"},{"start":403.041,"end":426.279,"text":"第一個三年的合作配合 第一個就持續推動這個牌卡之外的話我們希望說有更進階的就譬如說我們可以利用數位科技然後讓這個牌卡的話可以進入到AR VR的一個情況那另外的話當然就是說未來是不是可以用AI來提升認知的話我想三年的時間的話我們會去做研議"},{"start":427.04,"end":433.337,"text":"那比如說跟衛福部的醫療院所或是教育部的樂齡中心來合作這個你們有沒有考慮?"},{"start":434.578,"end":457.451,"text":"我們不排除跟所有的醫療院所合作因為在那天的話我們也跟榮總講就是說我們盡量盡量譬如說我在臺灣博物館的時候我們就跟那個臺北聯合醫學中心去合作然後有那個所謂的社會處方簽去看醫生醫生開一個處方說你要去看博物館類似這樣的情況的話我們未來的話有更多人的合作"},{"start":459.313,"end":465.3,"text":"教育部的熱靈中心希望你們可以積極主動推廣是,我們跟在部熱靈中心跟衛福部會來聯絡"},{"start":467.406,"end":467.586,"text":"臺灣的民俗的"},{"start":495.498,"end":499.72,"text":"有很多位委員有問過了關於我們故宮文物這些我們的保存人員我們的修復人員"},{"start":523.11,"end":530.373,"text":"故宮有超過70萬件的文物但是我們目前文物修復人員只有16位那在編制內的技術人員有即將退休的那因為原額你們還欲缺不補所以代表之後呢之後的文物修復人員可能會只剩下13位那依照博物館法的規定預算法可以設置就是設置作業基金那作業基金呢可以作為編制外人員的人事支出以自籌30%為限"},{"start":552.523,"end":558.329,"text":"那目前我們有四位是透過基金來聘請的那本席記得去年在審查預算的時候呢本來你們故宮的文物藝術發展基金編列的業務收入是3億5885萬那本席有提增列所以變成是3億6885萬那如果說依法在30%之內可以作為人事支出的話"},{"start":576.547,"end":577.828,"text":"所以院長有這樣的規劃就是說以這樣的基金來支應擴編人力的這個部分"},{"start":604.18,"end":630.157,"text":"對那當然就是說我們會重新盤點所有的人力因為剛剛委員資料上面也講說我們的巨工就是退休一切不補所以現在第一個的話我們就控管那個院長的司機院長司機的話退休不補然後把那個錢留給那個留給那個必要的接下來的話就控管副院長的司機就是說他這個部分的話我想我們會"},{"start":631.218,"end":637.461,"text":"謝謝院長 副院長您用心我再提一下我們故宮也有修復實習生是協助修復人員在進行比較非核心的修復工作一些協助的工作這幾年故宮單位都會入企每年入企大概10到15名的修復實習生"},{"start":653.829,"end":673.822,"text":"再來呢 如果說因為修復空間 搬遷這個時程不確定我們現在只死收四位 有兩位外籍 兩位是本國籍那你們這邊跟教育部清發署洽談了114年你們會分到有五名那這五名是額外的名額還是在這十到十五名之內"},{"start":675.603,"end":690.883,"text":"基本上來講的話是這樣就是因為今年的話今年的話是因為我們在整修空間整修空間的話沒有多餘的能量去收納實習生要不然的話我們歷年都增長到最高有14位所以我們希望說等到新故宮計畫"},{"start":692.205,"end":692.385,"text":"陳秀寳議員陳秀寳"},{"start":714.275,"end":741.455,"text":"這邊請教院長在故宮實習過的實習生截至目前為止有83位那我相信說他們在故宮實習這個寶貴的經驗對我們台灣培育這個文物的修復人才是有很大的注意那如果說這些畢業生以後來我們故宮這邊應徵的話你們會不會優先入用報告就是故宮的我們的修務的那個洪科長就是在故宮實習的其實我們裡面起碼有三四位是在故宮實習後來到故宮任職的"},{"start":743.621,"end":757.686,"text":"所以說因為他們有這樣的經驗也有這樣的默契所以你們會優先的來入用那有沒有考慮說在暑期的時候提供短期的公讀計畫來緩解修復人力的不足就是這些實習生他們可以來在短期的支援"},{"start":759.437,"end":781.258,"text":"因為暑期的話就是實習那實習的話基本上來講的話進入到庫房要經過一個專業的基礎訓練不是任何人都可以進庫房因為基本上來講的話也不是說很簡單的一個行前教育就可以進入所以這個部分的話公讀生的部分他只能做周邊的一個"},{"start":782.219,"end":782.239,"text":"陳秀寳議員"},{"start":807.597,"end":811.04,"text":"故宮對於文化修復的人員的培訓能夠多加規劃以上謝謝"}]}}}}