{"id":152323,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152323","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9fa9bc2102b9cf714954e50cf754c29c6811336f4541176936499d1b681a2ac7ad7dde790f3a16825ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"11:11:11 - 11:22:47","影片長度":"00:11:36","會議時間":"2024-05-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席就「回首百年放眼未來-故宮定位與部會級博物館公共責任總檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-08","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-11"},"duration":696,"end_time":"2024-05-08T11:22:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-08T11:11:11+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":563,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時11分）那院長就留在臺上，我想跟您請教一下，第一個，我看到您的報告講到故宮博物院的沿革，前面有一句話是，因為國寶文物因緣際會來到臺灣。這個是第一頁上面寫的因緣際會，這個因緣際會真的是把我們的國寶來到臺灣輕描淡寫，你不曉得我們的國寶來到臺灣是多麼的千辛萬苦，當初我們的國寶在南京，當時的有志之士、我們的先賢先烈，為了怕這一批國寶遭受到日軍的摧毀，所以多少人跋山涉水，要躲過日軍飛機的盤旋、炸彈的攻擊，然後跋山涉水的時候千辛萬苦，結果你們對於國寶來臺灣這個事情輕描淡寫，就寫個因緣際會，難怪大家會對於你們保存國寶跟保護故宮的權利覺得很沒有信心嘛！所以今天為什麼一個照片出來大家會炸鍋？當然你們有你們的解釋，你們認為那個人在國寶旁邊3公分簽字是小疏失，你們覺得是小疏失，大家為什麼會覺得很生氣？就是因為你們在無形當中就透露了你們對這些國寶的不重視，所以大家才會那麼的火大。我現在就問院長，請教一下，你認為今天發生的事情，在翠玉白菜旁邊簽字，這是小疏失嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：完全違反博物館專業人員的職業倫理。"],["葉委員元之：是不是小疏失？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講是違反博物館專業人員的……"],["葉委員元之：那是不是小疏失嘛？現在我就問你，是小疏失還是大疏失？這個違反是嚴重的，還是不嚴重的？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為他們非常小心謹慎，國寶也完美無缺的回到故宮……"],["葉委員元之：所以你還是覺得是小疏失，你還是覺得是很小的疏失是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對我……"],["葉委員元之：如果故宮的態度覺得是小疏失，那所有為這些國寶擔心的民眾都白擔心了啦！因為這種問題表現在你們的心態上嘛！你的心態認為是小疏失，代表以後還是可能會出現一樣的狀況。"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個對我來講……"],["葉委員元之：你認不認為是小疏失，你就回答我這個問題，是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我講老實話，這個當然是一個小疏失。"],["葉委員元之：還是小疏失喔！"],["蕭院長宗煌：是一個嚴重的錯誤。"],["葉委員元之：你還是覺得是小疏失！各位，今天有故宮的人在國寶旁邊3公分簽字，故宮院長的態度是小疏失。"],["蕭院長宗煌：嚴重的錯誤。"],["葉委員元之：對於故宮這樣的態度，我深表遺憾，我強力譴責。如果故宮院長認為這是小疏失的話，大家怎麼能夠放心把國寶交給你們啊？我請教一下，那個國寶是翠玉白菜，是真的還假的？"],["蕭院長宗煌：當然是真的。"],["葉委員元之：是真的，結果你這樣對待喔！現在網路上怎麼講你知道嗎？網路上說，哎呀！應該是假的，所以才敢這樣啦！反正故宮很多出來展示的東西也不見得是真的，所以才會是這種態度啦！所有人因為你的小疏失，已經懷疑故宮展示的東西是假的，你知道嗎？你還是覺得是小疏失？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這是一個嚴重的錯誤。"],["葉委員元之：你剛剛說小疏失，現在變嚴重錯誤，到底是小疏失還嚴重錯誤？"],["蕭院長宗煌：當然是一個不經心的小疏失，可是是嚴重的錯誤。"],["葉委員元之：不經心的小疏失，但是是一個嚴重的錯誤，你到底在講什麼？你講的話你的小孩聽得懂嗎？不經意的小疏失，但是是一個嚴重錯誤，今天我們在場非常多的記者朋友，每一個對文字的掌握都很精準，我不知道大家寫這個新聞要怎麼寫，標題叫做：翠玉白菜旁邊3公分寫東西，故宮院長說是一個不經意的小疏失，但是又是一個嚴重錯誤。你覺得是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["葉委員元之：院長，你是不是就是要靠著你這三寸不爛之舌，爭取故宮院長的位置？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這無關去留，因為同仁……"],["葉委員元之：我認為你光是認為這個是一個小疏失，你就可以下臺了啦！還要繼續做喔？"],["蕭院長宗煌：去留由長官決定。"],["葉委員元之：我剛剛已經講了，所有的國寶是大家千辛萬苦運來的，你說是因緣際會，然後發生這種嚴重的事情，全臺灣的人都認為是嚴重的事情，只有你故宮院長認為是小疏失。"],["蕭院長宗煌：千辛萬苦在故宮的院史裡面都有記載，千辛萬苦的確沒有錯。"],["葉委員元之：對，但是你的報告過來就是因緣際會，輕描淡寫，然後對照你們最近做的事情，現在故宮博物院裡面還有多少文物損壞？"],["蕭院長宗煌：故宮文物損壞不能用這樣的一條線去畫……"],["葉委員元之：目前還有多少文物損壞？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有辦法用這樣一條線畫說什麼叫做損壞，因為文物的保存狀況本來各有優劣，有的保存的情況好，有的本來進宮的狀況……"],["葉委員元之：我現在問你還有多少損壞，你就回答我的問題，不敢講喔？"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是不敢講，我們登保處……"],["葉委員元之：有多少文物損壞嘛？我現在不是問你損壞的原因，我是問你有多少文物現在是損壞還沒修復的，多少？"],["蕭院長宗煌：損壞還沒有修復沒有辦法用這樣的講法……"],["葉委員元之：有多少？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們大概有40件待修的書畫。"],["葉委員元之：還有呢？"],["蕭院長宗煌：如果以現在同仁給我的資料，已送修的圖書文獻108件、書畫92件、器物55件、織品10件正在修復，目前待重裱的有240件，這240件待重裱的並不是說三天或是兩個月就要把它做完，因為要看我們故宮提件展覽的需求，只是說檢測的結果，它的狀況比較劣化，所以有必要去做重裱。"],["葉委員元之：請問一下，剛剛說器物有55件待修復，對不對？這55件是怎麼壞掉的？有多少是人為的？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講，現在查無人為，都是自然的因素，或是因為……"],["葉委員元之：是因為什麼自然因素它會損毀？"],["蕭院長宗煌：進宮的時候，譬如說，有一個官帽，它的珍珠……"],["葉委員元之：進宮之後壞掉多少？"],["蕭院長宗煌：它的珍珠本來就散掉了，或是說一個大的瑪瑙珠，它進來的時候本來就散掉了。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝院長，你說進宮之前就壞掉了……"],["蕭院長宗煌：到了臺北。"],["葉委員元之：你們去年的時候非常公開的開了一個展示會，說我們有3個國寶損壞，有一個是弘治款的小碗、一個是康熙款的瓷碗，還有一個是被你們弄壞的乾隆的青瓷盤，結果你們開了一個展示會展示說你們修好了，還大方地講修復的過程，有吧？"],["蕭院長宗煌：有。"],["葉委員元之：結果我剛剛問你有多少待修復，你講了一大堆，有的是進宮前就壞掉了，到現在都沒有修好，所以你們只做公關是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是，文物的修復並不是說所有的文物都要修，這個基本上來講的話……"],["葉委員元之：那待修的有多少？我問你這個基本的問題你都回答不出來，還要看資料，你一個故宮博物院院長不就是要保管好那些國寶嗎？你還要看資料，你應該倒背如流、如數家珍。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：我剛剛問你問題，你答不出來，還要下面給小抄。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我跟委員報告，所謂損壞的程度不一、要修復的，譬如說有的是天桿那邊黏一下就好了，有的是要把它整平，有的要去背、要重裱，每一個狀況都不一樣，所以沒有辦法講說損壞……"],["葉委員元之：是啦！我剛剛講55個待修復，什麼時候修好？所以是不修，還是怎麼樣？你自己講待修復，然後又說不一定要修，然後又說修復的原因不一樣。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們修復科長說這一季就會修好。"],["葉委員元之：那你剛剛又講一大堆，自己打臉自己喔！"],["蕭院長宗煌：所以我說它的程度不一。"],["葉委員元之：上一次質詢的時候有跟你講到，網路上查到非常多，有人把故宮的圖檔拿去賣，後來去追了沒？"],["蕭院長宗煌：追了，我們有發了公文，也請淘寶網下架。"],["葉委員元之：公文發給誰？我現在又沒有時間了，我簡單秀一下，有幾個問題，第一個，去年曾經有人爆料說廈門有成立一家公司，假冒故宮的名義成立一個台北故宮交流中心，知道這件事吧？"],["蕭院長宗煌：知道。"],["葉委員元之：你們現在的動作是怎麼樣？有去提告嗎？提告了對不對？"],["蕭院長宗煌：有提告。"],["葉委員元之：去年6、7月的時候人家就檢舉了，今年3月才提告，晚了半年。第二個，這是臺灣人在對岸成立的公司，假冒故宮名義招搖撞騙，你們有沒有找臺灣的檢調協助去調查？網友直接講是苗栗的一家公司。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們有找檢調。"],["葉委員元之：有沒有找臺灣的檢調？"],["蕭院長宗煌：有。"],["葉委員元之：那為什麼動作這麼慢？查到了嗎？現在這個問題還持續存在，你知道嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我請處長回答。"],["葉委員元之：處長，現在這個問題還持續存在，你知道嗎？"],["王處長耀鋒：對，甚至我們還追加了被告……"],["葉委員元之：我現在秀給你看，你知不知道現在抖音上面還有台北故宮交流中心，你知道嗎？"],["王處長耀鋒：我們瞭解，我們也在處理，因為這是中國那邊的廠商。"],["葉委員元之：還在耶！去年6、7月人家跟你檢舉，今年3月你提告，現在抖音還有一個台北故宮交流中心的帳號，你現在去跟他對話，他還回你耶！問他說是不是故宮的合法授權，他還說是，結果你告訴我這個你有去追？"],["王處長耀鋒：我們認為這是非常惡劣的廠商，所以正在用司法的途徑跟……"],["葉委員元之：但人家就是還在嘛！","再來我請教一下，你們的報告裡面提到要增加研究能量，其中有一個是參與英國研究院獎助研究計畫「全球召集計畫─中國全球秩序」，院長，這個報告你看過了嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個報告還沒有結案。"],["葉委員元之：沒有結案？結案報告都上傳了，網路上都看得到，還說沒有結案！你知道你們這個報告的結論是什麼嗎？第一個，我不曉得你們去這個跟故宮有什麼關係，還有去研究南非，南非怎麼去瞭解中國的全球秩序？第二個，你知不知道你們參加這個會議之後的結論是什麼？結論是說中國對於南非比較少用文化，所以我們可以用文化去跟南非交流，去鞏固我們的友邦。所以你們故宮的工作到底是保存國寶、研究，還是抗中保臺啊？你們怎麼會去參加這種會議，然後做出這樣的結論？故宮也是搞抗中保臺喔？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，這是參與那次會議的一個報告，並不是所有的研究報告，就是參與那一次會議的。"],["葉委員元之：我就是講你的新的結論嘛！你上面寫的嘛，你的結論就是說中國有跟南非接觸，但比較少用文化交流，所以我們可以多多用文化去跟南非這些國家鞏固彼此邦交，最後一句就是在國際締結擴展友邦的結盟。所以故宮現在也在搞抗中保臺喔？拜託你們做點正事好不好？國人希望你們故宮做的事情是把國寶保護好，這是最基本的要求，不要去搞這些有的沒有的。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員，院長請回。","現在休息5分鐘。","休息（11時22分）","繼續開會（11時28分）"],["主席：現在繼續開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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,489 --> 00:00:34,836\n葉元首先跟葉元在這裡鄭重道歉就上次的話就是有失禮的地方就請多多見諒那院長你就由來台上我想跟您請教一下第一個我看到您的報告講到故宮博物院嚴格前面有一句話就是說因為國寶文物因緣際會來到台灣\n\n2\n00:00:37,558 --> 00:00:55,774\n這是第一頁你上面寫的因緣際會這因緣際會真的是把我們國寶來到台灣輕描淡寫你不曉得我們國寶來到台灣是多麼的千辛萬苦當初我們的國寶在南京當時的有志之士我們的先賢先烈為了怕這一批國寶遭受到獄軍的摧毀\n\n3\n00:00:57,515 --> 00:01:25,925\n所以多少人拔山涉水要躲過日軍飛機的盤旋炸彈的攻擊然後過拔山涉水的時候千辛萬苦結果你們對於對國保來台灣這個事情輕描淡寫就寫個因緣際會那難怪大家會對於你們保存國保跟保護故宮的權利會覺得很沒有信心嘛所以今天為什麼一個照片出來大家會炸鍋當然你們有你們的解釋啊你們認為說那個人在旁邊3公分小書師\n\n4\n00:01:28,085 --> 00:01:28,245\n是否小書師?\n\n5\n00:01:54,452 --> 00:01:55,753\n所以你還是覺得是小疏失是不是?\n\n6\n00:02:13,254 --> 00:02:30,310\n你還是覺得很小疏失是不是?如果故宮的態度是覺得小疏失那所有為這些國寶擔心的民眾都白擔心了啦因為這種問題表現在你們心態上嘛你的心態認為小疏失代表以後還是可能會出現一樣狀況啊你那麼認為是小疏失你就回答我這個問題是不是?\n\n7\n00:02:32,372 --> 00:02:35,835\n各位今天有故宮的人在國寶旁邊3公分簽這個字故宮院長的態度是小書師對於故宮的這樣的態度\n\n8\n00:02:53,137 --> 00:03:05,336\n我深表遺憾我強力譴責啊如果故宮院長認為這是小疏失的話大家怎麼能夠放心把國寶交給你們啊我請教一下那個國寶是吹白的還是真還假的\n\n9\n00:03:06,292 --> 00:03:26,932\n當然是真的是真的結果你這樣對待喔現在網路上怎麼講你知道嗎網路上說哎呀應該是假的啦所以才敢這樣啦反正故宮很多出來展示的東西也不見得是真的啦所以才會這種態度啦所有人因為你的小舒斯已經懷疑故宮展示的東西是假的你知道嗎你還是覺得小舒斯\n\n10\n00:03:28,178 --> 00:03:42,551\n這是一個嚴重的錯誤你剛剛說小書詩你現在變嚴重錯誤到底是小書詩的嚴重錯誤當然是一個不經心的小書詩不經心的小書詩但是是一個嚴重錯誤你在講什麼你講的話你的小孩聽得懂嗎\n\n11\n00:03:43,752 --> 00:03:43,972\n你覺得是?\n\n12\n00:04:10,014 --> 00:04:23,783\n葉元之你就是要靠著你這三寸不爛之舌爭取你的故宮院長的位置是不是這無關氣流無關氣流因為同仁我認為你光是認為這個是一個小書師你就可以下台了啦還要繼續做\n\n13\n00:04:29,354 --> 00:04:52,569\n國寶我剛剛跟你講了所有的國寶是大家千辛萬苦運來的你說是因緣際會然後發生這種嚴重的事情全台灣的人都認為是嚴重的事情只有你故宮院長認為是小疏失千辛萬苦是在故宮的院史裡面都有記載千辛萬苦的確沒有錯對但是你報告過來就是因緣際會輕描淡寫然後對照你們最近做的事情我們故宮現在\n\n14\n00:04:57,199 --> 00:05:21,395\n故宮博物院裡面還有多少文物損壞?多少?還有多少文物損壞?還有多少文物損壞?沒有辦法用這樣一條線話說什麼叫做損壞因為文物的保存的狀況本來各有優劣有的保存的情況好有的本來進攻的狀況不好我現在問你還有多少損壞你就回答我的問題不敢講喔\n\n15\n00:05:23,464 --> 00:05:41,172\n有多少文物損壞嗎我現在不是問你損壞的原因我現在是問你有多少文物現在是損壞還沒修復的多少損壞還沒有修復沒有辦法用這樣的講法大概我們有40件的代修的書畫40件代修的書畫還有咧\n\n16\n00:05:45,255 --> 00:05:53,423\n現在的話如果說以現在同仁給我的資料的話以送修的圖書文獻108件然後書畫92件75、55件、織品10件正在修復然後目前代從表的有240件\n\n17\n00:05:59,989 --> 00:06:01,811\n請問一下,剛剛說器物的55件待修復對不對?這55件是怎麼壞掉的?\n\n18\n00:06:22,236 --> 00:06:46,731\n人是人為的基本上來講現在查五人為都是自然的因素或是因爲為什麼自然的因素他會破他會損毀進攻的時候譬如說他有一個官帽他的那個進攻之後壞掉多少他珍珠本來就是散掉了或是說一個一個大的馬老豬他進來的時候就散掉了你說進攻之前就壞掉了你們去年的時候非常的這個\n\n19\n00:06:48,032 --> 00:07:16,150\n公開的開了一個展示會說有三我們有三個國寶損壞嘛對不對有一個是宏志款的一個小碗康熙款的一個瓷碗還有一個是被你們的弄壞的一個乾隆的青瓷盤結果你們開了一個展示會展示說欸我們修好了然後還大方的講說怎麼修復的過程有吧有結果我剛剛問你有多少袋修復你講了一大堆一拖拉鼓然後有的是進攻前就壞掉了你到現在都沒有修好\n\n20\n00:07:17,967 --> 00:07:43,758\n所以你們只做公關是不是?不是,文物的修幻並不是說所有的文物都要修這個基本上來講...沒有,那代修有多少?我問你這基本的問題你都回答不出來還要看資料喔你一個故宮博物院院長不就是要保管好那些國寶嗎?你還要看資料,你應該倒背如流如數家珍欸我跟委員報告...然後我剛剛問你問題答不出來還要下面給小抄\n\n21\n00:07:44,218 --> 00:08:12,520\n我跟委員報告就是說所謂的損壞的程度不一然後他要修復的有的是譬如說天桿那邊黏一下就好了有的是說要把它整平有的要去背要重裱每一個狀況都不一樣所以沒有辦法講說實在是啦那你到底那你我剛講嘛55個待修復什麼時候要修好嘛所以是不修還是怎麼樣你自己講待修復然後又說不一定要修然後又說修復的原因不一樣我們修復課長說這一季就會修好\n\n22\n00:08:13,223 --> 00:08:27,332\n那你剛剛又講一大堆自己打臉自己喔院長們上一次質詢的時候有跟你講到網路上查到非常多有人把故宮的土檔拿去賣後來去追了沒\n\n23\n00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:57,274\n最後我們也有發了公文也請淘寶往下加發給誰發給公文我現在秀我現在又沒有時間了啦我簡單秀我簡單秀一下齁幾個問題喔第一個去年曾經有人爆料啦說廈門有成立一家公司假冒的故宮的名義成立一個臺北故宮交流中心知道吧知道這是吧知道知道你們現在動作是怎樣有去提告嗎提告了對不對有有提告去年六七月的時候人家要檢舉了今年三月才提告\n\n24\n00:08:59,093 --> 00:09:17,835\n晚了半年以後第二個這是台灣人在對岸成立的公司假冒故宮名義招搖撞騙結果你們有沒有找台灣的檢調協助去調查網友直接的講是苗栗等家公司有沒有找台灣檢調有那為什麼多多多慢查到了嗎\n\n25\n00:09:19,509 --> 00:09:45,555\n現在這個問題還持續存在你知道嗎?處長現在這個問題還持續存在你知道嗎?我先秀給你看你知不知道現在抖音上面你知不知道現在抖音上面還有台北故宮交流中心你知道嗎?還在欸你說你去年6、7月人家跟你檢舉你今年3月你提告現在這個抖音還有一個台北故宮交流中心的帳號你現在去跟他對話他會毀你欸\n\n26\n00:09:47,635 --> 00:09:47,995\n這個報告還沒有結案\n\n27\n00:10:15,663 --> 00:10:33,865\n沒有結案結案報告都上傳了網路上都看得到還沒有結案你知道你們這個報告結論是什麼嗎第一個我不曉得你們去這個跟故宮有什麼關係啦好去研究南非南非怎麼樣去了解中國的全球秩序第二你們知不知道你們參加這個會議之後結論是什麼\n\n28\n00:10:35,486 --> 00:11:00,985\n結論是說中國對於南非比較少用文化啦所以我們可以用文化去跟南非交流去鞏固我們友邦所以你們故宮故宮的工作到底是保存國保研究還是抗中保台啊跟委員報告你們怎麼會參加這種會議然後做出這樣的結論跟委員報告故宮也是搞抗中保台喔這是一個參與那一次會議的一個報告並不是所有的研究的報告我就是講一個新的結論嘛\n\n29\n00:11:02,446 --> 00:11:30,832\n你上面寫的嘛你的結論就是說中國有跟南非他們接觸但是比較少用文化交流所以我們可以多多用文化去跟南非這些國家鞏固彼此邦交最後一句嘛在國際地結擴展友邦的結盟所以故宮現在也在搞鋼空寶台拜託你們做點正事好不好國人希望你們故宮做的事情是把國寶保護好這是最基本的要求不要去搞這些有的沒有的謝謝\n\n30\n00:11:33,919 --> 00:11:35,542\n好謝謝葉元之委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10489\t34836\t葉元首先跟葉元在這裡鄭重道歉就上次的話就是有失禮的地方就請多多見諒那院長你就由來台上我想跟您請教一下第一個我看到您的報告講到故宮博物院嚴格前面有一句話就是說因為國寶文物因緣際會來到台灣\n37558\t55774\t這是第一頁你上面寫的因緣際會這因緣際會真的是把我們國寶來到台灣輕描淡寫你不曉得我們國寶來到台灣是多麼的千辛萬苦當初我們的國寶在南京當時的有志之士我們的先賢先烈為了怕這一批國寶遭受到獄軍的摧毀\n57515\t85925\t所以多少人拔山涉水要躲過日軍飛機的盤旋炸彈的攻擊然後過拔山涉水的時候千辛萬苦結果你們對於對國保來台灣這個事情輕描淡寫就寫個因緣際會那難怪大家會對於你們保存國保跟保護故宮的權利會覺得很沒有信心嘛所以今天為什麼一個照片出來大家會炸鍋當然你們有你們的解釋啊你們認為說那個人在旁邊3公分小書師\n88085\t88245\t是否小書師?\n114452\t115753\t所以你還是覺得是小疏失是不是?\n133254\t150310\t你還是覺得很小疏失是不是?如果故宮的態度是覺得小疏失那所有為這些國寶擔心的民眾都白擔心了啦因為這種問題表現在你們心態上嘛你的心態認為小疏失代表以後還是可能會出現一樣狀況啊你那麼認為是小疏失你就回答我這個問題是不是?\n152372\t155835\t各位今天有故宮的人在國寶旁邊3公分簽這個字故宮院長的態度是小書師對於故宮的這樣的態度\n173137\t185336\t我深表遺憾我強力譴責啊如果故宮院長認為這是小疏失的話大家怎麼能夠放心把國寶交給你們啊我請教一下那個國寶是吹白的還是真還假的\n186292\t206932\t當然是真的是真的結果你這樣對待喔現在網路上怎麼講你知道嗎網路上說哎呀應該是假的啦所以才敢這樣啦反正故宮很多出來展示的東西也不見得是真的啦所以才會這種態度啦所有人因為你的小舒斯已經懷疑故宮展示的東西是假的你知道嗎你還是覺得小舒斯\n208178\t222551\t這是一個嚴重的錯誤你剛剛說小書詩你現在變嚴重錯誤到底是小書詩的嚴重錯誤當然是一個不經心的小書詩不經心的小書詩但是是一個嚴重錯誤你在講什麼你講的話你的小孩聽得懂嗎\n223752\t223972\t你覺得是?\n250014\t263783\t葉元之你就是要靠著你這三寸不爛之舌爭取你的故宮院長的位置是不是這無關氣流無關氣流因為同仁我認為你光是認為這個是一個小書師你就可以下台了啦還要繼續做\n269354\t292569\t國寶我剛剛跟你講了所有的國寶是大家千辛萬苦運來的你說是因緣際會然後發生這種嚴重的事情全台灣的人都認為是嚴重的事情只有你故宮院長認為是小疏失千辛萬苦是在故宮的院史裡面都有記載千辛萬苦的確沒有錯對但是你報告過來就是因緣際會輕描淡寫然後對照你們最近做的事情我們故宮現在\n297199\t321395\t故宮博物院裡面還有多少文物損壞?多少?還有多少文物損壞?還有多少文物損壞?沒有辦法用這樣一條線話說什麼叫做損壞因為文物的保存的狀況本來各有優劣有的保存的情況好有的本來進攻的狀況不好我現在問你還有多少損壞你就回答我的問題不敢講喔\n323464\t341172\t有多少文物損壞嗎我現在不是問你損壞的原因我現在是問你有多少文物現在是損壞還沒修復的多少損壞還沒有修復沒有辦法用這樣的講法大概我們有40件的代修的書畫40件代修的書畫還有咧\n345255\t353423\t現在的話如果說以現在同仁給我的資料的話以送修的圖書文獻108件然後書畫92件75、55件、織品10件正在修復然後目前代從表的有240件\n359989\t361811\t請問一下,剛剛說器物的55件待修復對不對?這55件是怎麼壞掉的?\n382236\t406731\t人是人為的基本上來講現在查五人為都是自然的因素或是因爲為什麼自然的因素他會破他會損毀進攻的時候譬如說他有一個官帽他的那個進攻之後壞掉多少他珍珠本來就是散掉了或是說一個一個大的馬老豬他進來的時候就散掉了你說進攻之前就壞掉了你們去年的時候非常的這個\n408032\t436150\t公開的開了一個展示會說有三 我們有三個國寶損壞嘛 對不對有一個是宏志款的一個小碗康熙款的一個瓷碗還有一個是被你們的弄壞的一個乾隆的青瓷盤結果你們開了一個展示會展示說欸我們修好了然後還大方的講說怎麼修復的過程有吧有結果我剛剛問你有多少袋修復你講了一大堆一拖拉鼓然後有的是進攻前就壞掉了你到現在都沒有修好\n437967\t463758\t所以你們只做公關是不是?不是,文物的修幻並不是說所有的文物都要修這個基本上來講...沒有,那代修有多少?我問你這基本的問題你都回答不出來還要看資料喔你一個故宮博物院院長不就是要保管好那些國寶嗎?你還要看資料,你應該倒背如流如數家珍欸我跟委員報告...然後我剛剛問你問題答不出來還要下面給小抄\n464218\t492520\t我跟委員報告就是說所謂的損壞的程度不一然後他要修復的有的是譬如說天桿那邊黏一下就好了有的是說要把它整平有的要去背要重裱每一個狀況都不一樣所以沒有辦法講說實在是啦那你到底那你我剛講嘛55個待修復什麼時候要修好嘛所以是不修還是怎麼樣你自己講待修復然後又說不一定要修然後又說修復的原因不一樣我們修復課長說這一季就會修好\n493223\t507332\t那你剛剛又講一大堆自己打臉自己喔院長們上一次質詢的時候有跟你講到網路上查到非常多有人把故宮的土檔拿去賣後來去追了沒\n508560\t537274\t最後我們也有發了公文也請淘寶往下加發給誰 發給公文我現在秀 我現在又沒有時間了啦我簡單秀 我簡單秀一下齁幾個問題喔 第一個去年曾經有人爆料啦說廈門有成立一家公司假冒的故宮的名義成立一個臺北故宮交流中心知道吧 知道這是吧知道 知道你們現在動作是怎樣 有去提告嗎提告了對不對有 有提告去年六七月的時候人家要檢舉了今年三月才提告\n539093\t557835\t晚了半年以後第二個這是台灣人在對岸成立的公司假冒故宮名義招搖撞騙結果你們有沒有找台灣的檢調協助去調查網友直接的講是苗栗等家公司有沒有找台灣檢調有那為什麼多多多慢查到了嗎\n559509\t585555\t現在這個問題還持續存在你知道嗎?處長現在這個問題還持續存在你知道嗎?我先秀給你看你知不知道現在抖音上面你知不知道現在抖音上面還有台北故宮交流中心你知道嗎?還在欸你說你去年6、7月人家跟你檢舉你今年3月你提告現在這個抖音還有一個台北故宮交流中心的帳號你現在去跟他對話他會毀你欸\n587635\t587995\t這個報告還沒有結案\n615663\t633865\t沒有結案 結案報告都上傳了網路上都看得到 還沒有結案你知道你們這個報告結論是什麼嗎第一個 我不曉得你們去這個跟故宮有什麼關係啦好 去研究南非南非怎麼樣去了解中國的全球秩序第二 你們知不知道你們參加這個會議之後結論是什麼\n635486\t660985\t結論是說中國對於南非比較少用文化啦所以我們可以用文化去跟南非交流去鞏固我們友邦所以你們故宮故宮的工作到底是保存國保研究還是抗中保台啊跟委員報告你們怎麼會參加這種會議然後做出這樣的結論跟委員報告故宮也是搞抗中保台喔這是一個參與那一次會議的一個報告並不是所有的研究的報告我就是講一個新的結論嘛\n662446\t690832\t你上面寫的嘛你的結論就是說中國有跟南非他們接觸但是比較少用文化交流所以我們可以多多用文化去跟南非這些國家鞏固彼此邦交最後一句嘛在國際地結擴展友邦的結盟所以故宮現在也在搞鋼空寶台拜託你們做點正事好不好國人希望你們故宮做的事情是把國寶保護好這是最基本的要求不要去搞這些有的沒有的謝謝\n693919\t695542\t好謝謝葉元之委員\n","txt":"葉元首先跟葉元在這裡鄭重道歉就上次的話就是有失禮的地方就請多多見諒那院長你就由來台上我想跟您請教一下第一個我看到您的報告講到故宮博物院嚴格前面有一句話就是說因為國寶文物因緣際會來到台灣\n這是第一頁你上面寫的因緣際會這因緣際會真的是把我們國寶來到台灣輕描淡寫你不曉得我們國寶來到台灣是多麼的千辛萬苦當初我們的國寶在南京當時的有志之士我們的先賢先烈為了怕這一批國寶遭受到獄軍的摧毀\n所以多少人拔山涉水要躲過日軍飛機的盤旋炸彈的攻擊然後過拔山涉水的時候千辛萬苦結果你們對於對國保來台灣這個事情輕描淡寫就寫個因緣際會那難怪大家會對於你們保存國保跟保護故宮的權利會覺得很沒有信心嘛所以今天為什麼一個照片出來大家會炸鍋當然你們有你們的解釋啊你們認為說那個人在旁邊3公分小書師\n是否小書師?\n所以你還是覺得是小疏失是不是?\n你還是覺得很小疏失是不是?如果故宮的態度是覺得小疏失那所有為這些國寶擔心的民眾都白擔心了啦因為這種問題表現在你們心態上嘛你的心態認為小疏失代表以後還是可能會出現一樣狀況啊你那麼認為是小疏失你就回答我這個問題是不是?\n各位今天有故宮的人在國寶旁邊3公分簽這個字故宮院長的態度是小書師對於故宮的這樣的態度\n我深表遺憾我強力譴責啊如果故宮院長認為這是小疏失的話大家怎麼能夠放心把國寶交給你們啊我請教一下那個國寶是吹白的還是真還假的\n當然是真的是真的結果你這樣對待喔現在網路上怎麼講你知道嗎網路上說哎呀應該是假的啦所以才敢這樣啦反正故宮很多出來展示的東西也不見得是真的啦所以才會這種態度啦所有人因為你的小舒斯已經懷疑故宮展示的東西是假的你知道嗎你還是覺得小舒斯\n這是一個嚴重的錯誤你剛剛說小書詩你現在變嚴重錯誤到底是小書詩的嚴重錯誤當然是一個不經心的小書詩不經心的小書詩但是是一個嚴重錯誤你在講什麼你講的話你的小孩聽得懂嗎\n你覺得是?\n葉元之你就是要靠著你這三寸不爛之舌爭取你的故宮院長的位置是不是這無關氣流無關氣流因為同仁我認為你光是認為這個是一個小書師你就可以下台了啦還要繼續做\n國寶我剛剛跟你講了所有的國寶是大家千辛萬苦運來的你說是因緣際會然後發生這種嚴重的事情全台灣的人都認為是嚴重的事情只有你故宮院長認為是小疏失千辛萬苦是在故宮的院史裡面都有記載千辛萬苦的確沒有錯對但是你報告過來就是因緣際會輕描淡寫然後對照你們最近做的事情我們故宮現在\n故宮博物院裡面還有多少文物損壞?多少?還有多少文物損壞?還有多少文物損壞?沒有辦法用這樣一條線話說什麼叫做損壞因為文物的保存的狀況本來各有優劣有的保存的情況好有的本來進攻的狀況不好我現在問你還有多少損壞你就回答我的問題不敢講喔\n有多少文物損壞嗎我現在不是問你損壞的原因我現在是問你有多少文物現在是損壞還沒修復的多少損壞還沒有修復沒有辦法用這樣的講法大概我們有40件的代修的書畫40件代修的書畫還有咧\n現在的話如果說以現在同仁給我的資料的話以送修的圖書文獻108件然後書畫92件75、55件、織品10件正在修復然後目前代從表的有240件\n請問一下,剛剛說器物的55件待修復對不對?這55件是怎麼壞掉的?\n人是人為的基本上來講現在查五人為都是自然的因素或是因爲為什麼自然的因素他會破他會損毀進攻的時候譬如說他有一個官帽他的那個進攻之後壞掉多少他珍珠本來就是散掉了或是說一個一個大的馬老豬他進來的時候就散掉了你說進攻之前就壞掉了你們去年的時候非常的這個\n公開的開了一個展示會說有三 我們有三個國寶損壞嘛 對不對有一個是宏志款的一個小碗康熙款的一個瓷碗還有一個是被你們的弄壞的一個乾隆的青瓷盤結果你們開了一個展示會展示說欸我們修好了然後還大方的講說怎麼修復的過程有吧有結果我剛剛問你有多少袋修復你講了一大堆一拖拉鼓然後有的是進攻前就壞掉了你到現在都沒有修好\n所以你們只做公關是不是?不是,文物的修幻並不是說所有的文物都要修這個基本上來講...沒有,那代修有多少?我問你這基本的問題你都回答不出來還要看資料喔你一個故宮博物院院長不就是要保管好那些國寶嗎?你還要看資料,你應該倒背如流如數家珍欸我跟委員報告...然後我剛剛問你問題答不出來還要下面給小抄\n我跟委員報告就是說所謂的損壞的程度不一然後他要修復的有的是譬如說天桿那邊黏一下就好了有的是說要把它整平有的要去背要重裱每一個狀況都不一樣所以沒有辦法講說實在是啦那你到底那你我剛講嘛55個待修復什麼時候要修好嘛所以是不修還是怎麼樣你自己講待修復然後又說不一定要修然後又說修復的原因不一樣我們修復課長說這一季就會修好\n那你剛剛又講一大堆自己打臉自己喔院長們上一次質詢的時候有跟你講到網路上查到非常多有人把故宮的土檔拿去賣後來去追了沒\n最後我們也有發了公文也請淘寶往下加發給誰 發給公文我現在秀 我現在又沒有時間了啦我簡單秀 我簡單秀一下齁幾個問題喔 第一個去年曾經有人爆料啦說廈門有成立一家公司假冒的故宮的名義成立一個臺北故宮交流中心知道吧 知道這是吧知道 知道你們現在動作是怎樣 有去提告嗎提告了對不對有 有提告去年六七月的時候人家要檢舉了今年三月才提告\n晚了半年以後第二個這是台灣人在對岸成立的公司假冒故宮名義招搖撞騙結果你們有沒有找台灣的檢調協助去調查網友直接的講是苗栗等家公司有沒有找台灣檢調有那為什麼多多多慢查到了嗎\n現在這個問題還持續存在你知道嗎?處長現在這個問題還持續存在你知道嗎?我先秀給你看你知不知道現在抖音上面你知不知道現在抖音上面還有台北故宮交流中心你知道嗎?還在欸你說你去年6、7月人家跟你檢舉你今年3月你提告現在這個抖音還有一個台北故宮交流中心的帳號你現在去跟他對話他會毀你欸\n這個報告還沒有結案\n沒有結案 結案報告都上傳了網路上都看得到 還沒有結案你知道你們這個報告結論是什麼嗎第一個 我不曉得你們去這個跟故宮有什麼關係啦好 去研究南非南非怎麼樣去了解中國的全球秩序第二 你們知不知道你們參加這個會議之後結論是什麼\n結論是說中國對於南非比較少用文化啦所以我們可以用文化去跟南非交流去鞏固我們友邦所以你們故宮故宮的工作到底是保存國保研究還是抗中保台啊跟委員報告你們怎麼會參加這種會議然後做出這樣的結論跟委員報告故宮也是搞抗中保台喔這是一個參與那一次會議的一個報告並不是所有的研究的報告我就是講一個新的結論嘛\n你上面寫的嘛你的結論就是說中國有跟南非他們接觸但是比較少用文化交流所以我們可以多多用文化去跟南非這些國家鞏固彼此邦交最後一句嘛在國際地結擴展友邦的結盟所以故宮現在也在搞鋼空寶台拜託你們做點正事好不好國人希望你們故宮做的事情是把國寶保護好這是最基本的要求不要去搞這些有的沒有的謝謝\n好謝謝葉元之委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.489 --> 00:34.836\n葉元首先跟葉元在這裡鄭重道歉就上次的話就是有失禮的地方就請多多見諒那院長你就由來台上我想跟您請教一下第一個我看到您的報告講到故宮博物院嚴格前面有一句話就是說因為國寶文物因緣際會來到台灣\n\n00:37.558 --> 00:55.774\n這是第一頁你上面寫的因緣際會這因緣際會真的是把我們國寶來到台灣輕描淡寫你不曉得我們國寶來到台灣是多麼的千辛萬苦當初我們的國寶在南京當時的有志之士我們的先賢先烈為了怕這一批國寶遭受到獄軍的摧毀\n\n00:57.515 --> 01:25.925\n所以多少人拔山涉水要躲過日軍飛機的盤旋炸彈的攻擊然後過拔山涉水的時候千辛萬苦結果你們對於對國保來台灣這個事情輕描淡寫就寫個因緣際會那難怪大家會對於你們保存國保跟保護故宮的權利會覺得很沒有信心嘛所以今天為什麼一個照片出來大家會炸鍋當然你們有你們的解釋啊你們認為說那個人在旁邊3公分小書師\n\n01:28.085 --> 01:28.245\n是否小書師?\n\n01:54.452 --> 01:55.753\n所以你還是覺得是小疏失是不是?\n\n02:13.254 --> 02:30.310\n你還是覺得很小疏失是不是?如果故宮的態度是覺得小疏失那所有為這些國寶擔心的民眾都白擔心了啦因為這種問題表現在你們心態上嘛你的心態認為小疏失代表以後還是可能會出現一樣狀況啊你那麼認為是小疏失你就回答我這個問題是不是?\n\n02:32.372 --> 02:35.835\n各位今天有故宮的人在國寶旁邊3公分簽這個字故宮院長的態度是小書師對於故宮的這樣的態度\n\n02:53.137 --> 03:05.336\n我深表遺憾我強力譴責啊如果故宮院長認為這是小疏失的話大家怎麼能夠放心把國寶交給你們啊我請教一下那個國寶是吹白的還是真還假的\n\n03:06.292 --> 03:26.932\n當然是真的是真的結果你這樣對待喔現在網路上怎麼講你知道嗎網路上說哎呀應該是假的啦所以才敢這樣啦反正故宮很多出來展示的東西也不見得是真的啦所以才會這種態度啦所有人因為你的小舒斯已經懷疑故宮展示的東西是假的你知道嗎你還是覺得小舒斯\n\n03:28.178 --> 03:42.551\n這是一個嚴重的錯誤你剛剛說小書詩你現在變嚴重錯誤到底是小書詩的嚴重錯誤當然是一個不經心的小書詩不經心的小書詩但是是一個嚴重錯誤你在講什麼你講的話你的小孩聽得懂嗎\n\n03:43.752 --> 03:43.972\n你覺得是?\n\n04:10.014 --> 04:23.783\n葉元之你就是要靠著你這三寸不爛之舌爭取你的故宮院長的位置是不是這無關氣流無關氣流因為同仁我認為你光是認為這個是一個小書師你就可以下台了啦還要繼續做\n\n04:29.354 --> 04:52.569\n國寶我剛剛跟你講了所有的國寶是大家千辛萬苦運來的你說是因緣際會然後發生這種嚴重的事情全台灣的人都認為是嚴重的事情只有你故宮院長認為是小疏失千辛萬苦是在故宮的院史裡面都有記載千辛萬苦的確沒有錯對但是你報告過來就是因緣際會輕描淡寫然後對照你們最近做的事情我們故宮現在\n\n04:57.199 --> 05:21.395\n故宮博物院裡面還有多少文物損壞?多少?還有多少文物損壞?還有多少文物損壞?沒有辦法用這樣一條線話說什麼叫做損壞因為文物的保存的狀況本來各有優劣有的保存的情況好有的本來進攻的狀況不好我現在問你還有多少損壞你就回答我的問題不敢講喔\n\n05:23.464 --> 05:41.172\n有多少文物損壞嗎我現在不是問你損壞的原因我現在是問你有多少文物現在是損壞還沒修復的多少損壞還沒有修復沒有辦法用這樣的講法大概我們有40件的代修的書畫40件代修的書畫還有咧\n\n05:45.255 --> 05:53.423\n現在的話如果說以現在同仁給我的資料的話以送修的圖書文獻108件然後書畫92件75、55件、織品10件正在修復然後目前代從表的有240件\n\n05:59.989 --> 06:01.811\n請問一下,剛剛說器物的55件待修復對不對?這55件是怎麼壞掉的?\n\n06:22.236 --> 06:46.731\n人是人為的基本上來講現在查五人為都是自然的因素或是因爲為什麼自然的因素他會破他會損毀進攻的時候譬如說他有一個官帽他的那個進攻之後壞掉多少他珍珠本來就是散掉了或是說一個一個大的馬老豬他進來的時候就散掉了你說進攻之前就壞掉了你們去年的時候非常的這個\n\n06:48.032 --> 07:16.150\n公開的開了一個展示會說有三我們有三個國寶損壞嘛對不對有一個是宏志款的一個小碗康熙款的一個瓷碗還有一個是被你們的弄壞的一個乾隆的青瓷盤結果你們開了一個展示會展示說欸我們修好了然後還大方的講說怎麼修復的過程有吧有結果我剛剛問你有多少袋修復你講了一大堆一拖拉鼓然後有的是進攻前就壞掉了你到現在都沒有修好\n\n07:17.967 --> 07:43.758\n所以你們只做公關是不是?不是,文物的修幻並不是說所有的文物都要修這個基本上來講...沒有,那代修有多少?我問你這基本的問題你都回答不出來還要看資料喔你一個故宮博物院院長不就是要保管好那些國寶嗎?你還要看資料,你應該倒背如流如數家珍欸我跟委員報告...然後我剛剛問你問題答不出來還要下面給小抄\n\n07:44.218 --> 08:12.520\n我跟委員報告就是說所謂的損壞的程度不一然後他要修復的有的是譬如說天桿那邊黏一下就好了有的是說要把它整平有的要去背要重裱每一個狀況都不一樣所以沒有辦法講說實在是啦那你到底那你我剛講嘛55個待修復什麼時候要修好嘛所以是不修還是怎麼樣你自己講待修復然後又說不一定要修然後又說修復的原因不一樣我們修復課長說這一季就會修好\n\n08:13.223 --> 08:27.332\n那你剛剛又講一大堆自己打臉自己喔院長們上一次質詢的時候有跟你講到網路上查到非常多有人把故宮的土檔拿去賣後來去追了沒\n\n08:28.560 --> 08:57.274\n最後我們也有發了公文也請淘寶往下加發給誰發給公文我現在秀我現在又沒有時間了啦我簡單秀我簡單秀一下齁幾個問題喔第一個去年曾經有人爆料啦說廈門有成立一家公司假冒的故宮的名義成立一個臺北故宮交流中心知道吧知道這是吧知道知道你們現在動作是怎樣有去提告嗎提告了對不對有有提告去年六七月的時候人家要檢舉了今年三月才提告\n\n08:59.093 --> 09:17.835\n晚了半年以後第二個這是台灣人在對岸成立的公司假冒故宮名義招搖撞騙結果你們有沒有找台灣的檢調協助去調查網友直接的講是苗栗等家公司有沒有找台灣檢調有那為什麼多多多慢查到了嗎\n\n09:19.509 --> 09:45.555\n現在這個問題還持續存在你知道嗎?處長現在這個問題還持續存在你知道嗎?我先秀給你看你知不知道現在抖音上面你知不知道現在抖音上面還有台北故宮交流中心你知道嗎?還在欸你說你去年6、7月人家跟你檢舉你今年3月你提告現在這個抖音還有一個台北故宮交流中心的帳號你現在去跟他對話他會毀你欸\n\n09:47.635 --> 09:47.995\n這個報告還沒有結案\n\n10:15.663 --> 10:33.865\n沒有結案結案報告都上傳了網路上都看得到還沒有結案你知道你們這個報告結論是什麼嗎第一個我不曉得你們去這個跟故宮有什麼關係啦好去研究南非南非怎麼樣去了解中國的全球秩序第二你們知不知道你們參加這個會議之後結論是什麼\n\n10:35.486 --> 11:00.985\n結論是說中國對於南非比較少用文化啦所以我們可以用文化去跟南非交流去鞏固我們友邦所以你們故宮故宮的工作到底是保存國保研究還是抗中保台啊跟委員報告你們怎麼會參加這種會議然後做出這樣的結論跟委員報告故宮也是搞抗中保台喔這是一個參與那一次會議的一個報告並不是所有的研究的報告我就是講一個新的結論嘛\n\n11:02.446 --> 11:30.832\n你上面寫的嘛你的結論就是說中國有跟南非他們接觸但是比較少用文化交流所以我們可以多多用文化去跟南非這些國家鞏固彼此邦交最後一句嘛在國際地結擴展友邦的結盟所以故宮現在也在搞鋼空寶台拜託你們做點正事好不好國人希望你們故宮做的事情是把國寶保護好這是最基本的要求不要去搞這些有的沒有的謝謝\n\n11:33.919 --> 11:35.542\n好謝謝葉元之委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.489,"end":34.836,"text":"葉元首先跟葉元在這裡鄭重道歉就上次的話就是有失禮的地方就請多多見諒那院長你就由來台上我想跟您請教一下第一個我看到您的報告講到故宮博物院嚴格前面有一句話就是說因為國寶文物因緣際會來到台灣"},{"start":37.558,"end":55.774,"text":"這是第一頁你上面寫的因緣際會這因緣際會真的是把我們國寶來到台灣輕描淡寫你不曉得我們國寶來到台灣是多麼的千辛萬苦當初我們的國寶在南京當時的有志之士我們的先賢先烈為了怕這一批國寶遭受到獄軍的摧毀"},{"start":57.515,"end":85.925,"text":"所以多少人拔山涉水要躲過日軍飛機的盤旋炸彈的攻擊然後過拔山涉水的時候千辛萬苦結果你們對於對國保來台灣這個事情輕描淡寫就寫個因緣際會那難怪大家會對於你們保存國保跟保護故宮的權利會覺得很沒有信心嘛所以今天為什麼一個照片出來大家會炸鍋當然你們有你們的解釋啊你們認為說那個人在旁邊3公分小書師"},{"start":88.085,"end":88.245,"text":"是否小書師?"},{"start":114.452,"end":115.753,"text":"所以你還是覺得是小疏失是不是?"},{"start":133.254,"end":150.31,"text":"你還是覺得很小疏失是不是?如果故宮的態度是覺得小疏失那所有為這些國寶擔心的民眾都白擔心了啦因為這種問題表現在你們心態上嘛你的心態認為小疏失代表以後還是可能會出現一樣狀況啊你那麼認為是小疏失你就回答我這個問題是不是?"},{"start":152.372,"end":155.835,"text":"各位今天有故宮的人在國寶旁邊3公分簽這個字故宮院長的態度是小書師對於故宮的這樣的態度"},{"start":173.137,"end":185.336,"text":"我深表遺憾我強力譴責啊如果故宮院長認為這是小疏失的話大家怎麼能夠放心把國寶交給你們啊我請教一下那個國寶是吹白的還是真還假的"},{"start":186.292,"end":206.932,"text":"當然是真的是真的結果你這樣對待喔現在網路上怎麼講你知道嗎網路上說哎呀應該是假的啦所以才敢這樣啦反正故宮很多出來展示的東西也不見得是真的啦所以才會這種態度啦所有人因為你的小舒斯已經懷疑故宮展示的東西是假的你知道嗎你還是覺得小舒斯"},{"start":208.178,"end":222.551,"text":"這是一個嚴重的錯誤你剛剛說小書詩你現在變嚴重錯誤到底是小書詩的嚴重錯誤當然是一個不經心的小書詩不經心的小書詩但是是一個嚴重錯誤你在講什麼你講的話你的小孩聽得懂嗎"},{"start":223.752,"end":223.972,"text":"你覺得是?"},{"start":250.014,"end":263.783,"text":"葉元之你就是要靠著你這三寸不爛之舌爭取你的故宮院長的位置是不是這無關氣流無關氣流因為同仁我認為你光是認為這個是一個小書師你就可以下台了啦還要繼續做"},{"start":269.354,"end":292.569,"text":"國寶我剛剛跟你講了所有的國寶是大家千辛萬苦運來的你說是因緣際會然後發生這種嚴重的事情全台灣的人都認為是嚴重的事情只有你故宮院長認為是小疏失千辛萬苦是在故宮的院史裡面都有記載千辛萬苦的確沒有錯對但是你報告過來就是因緣際會輕描淡寫然後對照你們最近做的事情我們故宮現在"},{"start":297.199,"end":321.395,"text":"故宮博物院裡面還有多少文物損壞?多少?還有多少文物損壞?還有多少文物損壞?沒有辦法用這樣一條線話說什麼叫做損壞因為文物的保存的狀況本來各有優劣有的保存的情況好有的本來進攻的狀況不好我現在問你還有多少損壞你就回答我的問題不敢講喔"},{"start":323.464,"end":341.172,"text":"有多少文物損壞嗎我現在不是問你損壞的原因我現在是問你有多少文物現在是損壞還沒修復的多少損壞還沒有修復沒有辦法用這樣的講法大概我們有40件的代修的書畫40件代修的書畫還有咧"},{"start":345.255,"end":353.423,"text":"現在的話如果說以現在同仁給我的資料的話以送修的圖書文獻108件然後書畫92件75、55件、織品10件正在修復然後目前代從表的有240件"},{"start":359.989,"end":361.811,"text":"請問一下,剛剛說器物的55件待修復對不對?這55件是怎麼壞掉的?"},{"start":382.236,"end":406.731,"text":"人是人為的基本上來講現在查五人為都是自然的因素或是因爲為什麼自然的因素他會破他會損毀進攻的時候譬如說他有一個官帽他的那個進攻之後壞掉多少他珍珠本來就是散掉了或是說一個一個大的馬老豬他進來的時候就散掉了你說進攻之前就壞掉了你們去年的時候非常的這個"},{"start":408.032,"end":436.15,"text":"公開的開了一個展示會說有三 我們有三個國寶損壞嘛 對不對有一個是宏志款的一個小碗康熙款的一個瓷碗還有一個是被你們的弄壞的一個乾隆的青瓷盤結果你們開了一個展示會展示說欸我們修好了然後還大方的講說怎麼修復的過程有吧有結果我剛剛問你有多少袋修復你講了一大堆一拖拉鼓然後有的是進攻前就壞掉了你到現在都沒有修好"},{"start":437.967,"end":463.758,"text":"所以你們只做公關是不是?不是,文物的修幻並不是說所有的文物都要修這個基本上來講...沒有,那代修有多少?我問你這基本的問題你都回答不出來還要看資料喔你一個故宮博物院院長不就是要保管好那些國寶嗎?你還要看資料,你應該倒背如流如數家珍欸我跟委員報告...然後我剛剛問你問題答不出來還要下面給小抄"},{"start":464.218,"end":492.52,"text":"我跟委員報告就是說所謂的損壞的程度不一然後他要修復的有的是譬如說天桿那邊黏一下就好了有的是說要把它整平有的要去背要重裱每一個狀況都不一樣所以沒有辦法講說實在是啦那你到底那你我剛講嘛55個待修復什麼時候要修好嘛所以是不修還是怎麼樣你自己講待修復然後又說不一定要修然後又說修復的原因不一樣我們修復課長說這一季就會修好"},{"start":493.223,"end":507.332,"text":"那你剛剛又講一大堆自己打臉自己喔院長們上一次質詢的時候有跟你講到網路上查到非常多有人把故宮的土檔拿去賣後來去追了沒"},{"start":508.56,"end":537.274,"text":"最後我們也有發了公文也請淘寶往下加發給誰 發給公文我現在秀 我現在又沒有時間了啦我簡單秀 我簡單秀一下齁幾個問題喔 第一個去年曾經有人爆料啦說廈門有成立一家公司假冒的故宮的名義成立一個臺北故宮交流中心知道吧 知道這是吧知道 知道你們現在動作是怎樣 有去提告嗎提告了對不對有 有提告去年六七月的時候人家要檢舉了今年三月才提告"},{"start":539.093,"end":557.835,"text":"晚了半年以後第二個這是台灣人在對岸成立的公司假冒故宮名義招搖撞騙結果你們有沒有找台灣的檢調協助去調查網友直接的講是苗栗等家公司有沒有找台灣檢調有那為什麼多多多慢查到了嗎"},{"start":559.509,"end":585.555,"text":"現在這個問題還持續存在你知道嗎?處長現在這個問題還持續存在你知道嗎?我先秀給你看你知不知道現在抖音上面你知不知道現在抖音上面還有台北故宮交流中心你知道嗎?還在欸你說你去年6、7月人家跟你檢舉你今年3月你提告現在這個抖音還有一個台北故宮交流中心的帳號你現在去跟他對話他會毀你欸"},{"start":587.635,"end":587.995,"text":"這個報告還沒有結案"},{"start":615.663,"end":633.865,"text":"沒有結案 結案報告都上傳了網路上都看得到 還沒有結案你知道你們這個報告結論是什麼嗎第一個 我不曉得你們去這個跟故宮有什麼關係啦好 去研究南非南非怎麼樣去了解中國的全球秩序第二 你們知不知道你們參加這個會議之後結論是什麼"},{"start":635.486,"end":660.985,"text":"結論是說中國對於南非比較少用文化啦所以我們可以用文化去跟南非交流去鞏固我們友邦所以你們故宮故宮的工作到底是保存國保研究還是抗中保台啊跟委員報告你們怎麼會參加這種會議然後做出這樣的結論跟委員報告故宮也是搞抗中保台喔這是一個參與那一次會議的一個報告並不是所有的研究的報告我就是講一個新的結論嘛"},{"start":662.446,"end":690.832,"text":"你上面寫的嘛你的結論就是說中國有跟南非他們接觸但是比較少用文化交流所以我們可以多多用文化去跟南非這些國家鞏固彼此邦交最後一句嘛在國際地結擴展友邦的結盟所以故宮現在也在搞鋼空寶台拜託你們做點正事好不好國人希望你們故宮做的事情是把國寶保護好這是最基本的要求不要去搞這些有的沒有的謝謝"},{"start":693.919,"end":695.542,"text":"好謝謝葉元之委員"}]}}}}