{"id":152327,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152327","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9fa9bc2102b9cf71d6dc42d64db9e38b6811336f4541176936499d1b681a2ac791295010ed49b34a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:28:04 - 11:43:10","影片長度":"00:15:06","會議時間":"2024-05-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席就「回首百年放眼未來-故宮定位與部會級博物館公共責任總檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-08","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-11"},"duration":906,"end_time":"2024-05-08T11:43:10+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-08T11:28:04+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":654,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時28分）謝謝主席，麻煩請蕭院長。"],["主席：有請蕭院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：洪委員早。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，故宮明年要迎來百歲的院慶，但520將近，到目前為止，院長續任或是新人選都還不知道，院長會不會覺得心裡不踏實或是有不被尊重的感覺？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講，這是一個憲政的常態，就是政務官的去留……"],["洪委員孟楷：所有的部會首長名單都出來了，只剩故宮院長還沒有出來，這算常態？"],["蕭院長宗煌：以前有啊，前兩天都有啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：前兩天有什麼？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我過去就曾經有過前兩天才收到訊息。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，我現在講的是所有的部會首長名單到520前都已經出來，連次長都出來了，就只剩故宮院長沒有出來，這樣算常態啊？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我想行政院內閣團隊有行政院內閣團隊的考量。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以到目前為止，你也沒有收到新任卓榮泰院長的約詢或是賴清德總統的約詢？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。我們接下來看到，組織重整會不會降級，故宮應不應該降級，因為我們的百年故宮、部會級的博物館，本席以及所有愛護文物的人，大家也都非常關心。院長，你的態度是什麼，故宮需要被降級嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：故宮博物院在整個全世界博物館的範例裡面，院長是部長級，就是館長是部長級、是內閣成員的，在世界上其實是少見，但也是因為故宮博物院有特殊的政治因緣關係，所以做這樣的一個組織設計，未來組織設計要怎麼處理，基本上是行政院的權責。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以也是尊重別人？不是，院長，你今天在故宮博物院一天，你應該是捍衛故宮博物院的尊嚴、捍衛故宮博物院的組織，你的主張是什麼？"],["蕭院長宗煌：有，我個人已經表達了，以目前來講，故宮保留現狀對現階段的發展來講是比較好。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以不應該被降級？"],["蕭院長宗煌：尊重行政院的決定。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，過去您也擔任過很多職務，其實本席剛剛看你被很多委員質詢，本席心裡是五味雜陳，為什麼？我相信你也不會縱容、你也不會允許有策展人員在翠玉白菜旁邊簽字嘛！這不是什麼小瑕疵或嚴重疏失一句話就可以講完的，你的專業在哪裡？為什麼現在左閃右閃、左支右絀，是不是心有罣礙啊？是不是心裡還在想說，我現在講這句話，會不會惹上層不高興？不要政治正確，要用專業判斷，可以嗎？什麼小瑕疵、什麼小失誤？不能做的事情就不能做，不是嗎？國寶之所以為國寶，就在於它的不可逆性，歷史的長流那麼久，我們有幸在2024年還可以看到一千多年前、兩千多年前的文物，或是幾百年前的文物，這都是屬於人類的珍寶，一個不小心，如果今天摔壞了、破碎了，就會造成後代子孫都沒有辦法看到，不是嗎？哪有什麼小疏失、大疏失、嚴重疏失？專業是這樣子的嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我想不只是委員，社會對於故宮博物院是零容忍，這個我非常、非常地瞭解。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我仔細問，這件事情是3月的事情，對不對？到今天是5月8號，5月7號還有人丟出來給委員爆料，再對照現在故宮博物院院長的職務還沒有確認，本席不禁懷疑，是不是內部有派系鬥爭，有人虎視眈眈院長的位置？所以故意在你今天有專案報告的時候，前一天把3月的事情拿出來，讓委員輪流來炮轟你，有沒有這樣的狀況？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我想這是一個恰巧吧，當然不排除有這樣的一個猜測。"],["洪委員孟楷：不排除有這樣的猜測，所以你的位置坐得不是很穩，還是有什麼樣的勢力正虎視眈眈院長的位置？"],["蕭院長宗煌：在故宮博物院基本上來講是沒有秘密，所有故宮博物院的內部狀況，基本上都會有人對外透露，這不是今天才開始，這是行之有年的一個工廠文化。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以代表院長你自己也是寶寶心裡苦，但寶寶不說，是不是？在過去這一段時間其實坐這個位子也坐得如履薄冰、戰戰兢兢。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們儘量在同仁兢兢業業的工作環境下，把故宮的國寶來維護好。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我們不要再打官話。所以現在看起來就是民進黨內部還有在權力鬥爭，院長這個位置還沒有坐實坐穩，現在又爆發這樣的狀況，但是對於我們民意代表來說，要求只有一點，今天不管誰在這個位子上面，對於國寶的保護就是零容忍，就那麼簡單。"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，這個我全然接受。"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在請教，這件3月10號發生的事情，然後還包括有外人進出庫房，事後有沒有進行盤點清查跟檢視庫房裡面的文件？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講都安全入庫，至於南院庫房是一個淨空的空庫，它在做工程……"],["洪委員孟楷：好。有提到是說會提報考紀會，並且對廠商違反規定也會嚴厲處分，目前對內部人員的懲處跟對廠商的懲處是什麼？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對於廠商的懲處，我們會依合約來裁罰；對於同仁的……"],["洪委員孟楷：裁罰最多罰多少錢？"],["蕭院長宗煌：現在他們還沒有處理出來。另外，有關考紀會的懲處，目前我們主席副院長把它退回，請南院重新釐清，然後再重新送懲處的名單。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以到目前為止過了多久的時間？"],["蕭院長宗煌：兩個事情，一個事情是庫房，一個事情是翠玉白菜的事情。翠玉白菜的部分，是因為臺南美術館才剛剛把整個結案報告送過來，目前他們還沒有簽到我這邊來。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，什麼時候會出來？"],["蕭院長宗煌：下個禮拜。"],["洪委員孟楷：下個禮拜？懲處名單以及懲處的內容還有對廠商的處分，對不對？尤其這一次是廠商他直接抽換清潔人員，沒有告知故宮博物院，所以該有的處分下個禮拜會出來，是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：可以。"],["洪委員孟楷：另外3月的時候有故宮的修復計畫說明會，大家看到也有點譁然，說我們要在故宮的大門口設立玻璃亭，當然羅浮宮、大英博物館也有現代化新舊融合的設計，我們也看到了，但是很多人在講的是依照文資法，故宮不是應該辦說明會、公聽會，並且把相關的資料通知居民來參與，但故宮怎麼一開始在網路公告時只有圖片沒有說明，後來要求才揭露部分的簡報檔？我們想請教到底是在搞神秘，還是說現在你要大開大闔、大破大立，針對百年故宮做一個相關的競圖設計，那現在不是更應該說服大家、讓大家知道、讓大家來參與嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，跟委員報告，工程的發包跟設計概念、審查跟進入到實體設計、細部設計，它是一個流程，這個流程該在什麼時候做公開說明、該什麼時候送審議，它是有一個節奏，不是說我三天就決定這樣做、兩天就決定這樣做，所以這個部分我們會依照整個文資的審議程序送文資審議，因為之前送……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在到哪一個進度？"],["蕭院長宗煌：現在的話，第一次的文資審議沒有通過，沒有通過的話，我不能沒收廠商修正計畫的權利，所以它在修正計畫之後，我們也把所有的媒體報導跟民意的資訊給設計團隊，請他們調整，如果他們調整之後……"],["洪委員孟楷：那第二次的修正計畫什麼時候會進行？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講，這就要變成是他們調整了，因為原來再怎麼規劃也都是……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有，院長，我們現在溝通一個觀念啦！因為今天消息出來媒體譁然是說為什麼會在大門口的部分，其實對故宮來講，這個百年設計你還在做玻璃罩……"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是、不是……"],["洪委員孟楷：然後你變成放任廠商去做設計計畫，這樣有點奇怪啊！"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是，這是之前2022年招標的時候，有四個廠商，裡面有一個廠商設計了一個玻璃入口……"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我建議不要比中指。"],["蕭院長宗煌：它雀屏中選，所以……"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，這樣子感覺是對本席跟立院不尊重。"],["蕭院長宗煌：對不起、對不起，我……"],["洪委員孟楷：我知道你不是有心的，但是不要讓媒體拍到這個畫面，這樣不好。"],["蕭院長宗煌：對不起、對不起，鄭重道歉。我是比一、二、三、四，四家裡面有一家雀屏中選，但我現在連比都不敢比。但是因為它設計了那個玻璃入口所以雀屏中選，之後如果我把它取消的話，那會有履約爭議的，因為其他三家會說我們在玩假球，所以如果是經過一個審議程序，它沒有通過，它就是要變更設計了，但是我現在不能沒收它修正的權利。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，本席今天質疑的地方在哪裡？在於3月媒體報導出來的時候造成譁然，大家覺得怎麼突然間會是這樣的一個方向？還有更重要的是……"],["蕭院長宗煌：那是一個設計概念而已。"],["洪委員孟楷：對，退一萬步講，之後會不會人走茶涼，假設520掀開名單不是你，會不會下一個院長來又有下一個院長的想法，又完全變更設計？到最後國人就不知道百年故宮的形狀到底要長什麼樣？最合理的方式應該是先彙集大家的意見，至少有一個一致的方向，我們再來做。"],["蕭院長宗煌：關於這個部分，剛剛委員指教的是我們已經把所有的民意跟媒體報導給那個設計團隊……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，設計團隊什麼時候會再第二次出來？"],["蕭院長宗煌：設計團隊在送到文資審議之前，我們會再召開說明會，甚至邀請建築界的專家學者來共同參與……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，這個時程是什麼時候？"],["蕭院長宗煌：送出去的時候當然……"],["洪委員孟楷：你還會再召開說明會，還會再召集專家學者，那這個時程會在什麼時候？"],["蕭院長宗煌：下一任院長。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼？"],["蕭院長宗煌：下一任院長。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你是準備要走人了，是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有啦，基本上來講，以現在的時程安排，差不多也要到5月之後。"],["洪委員孟楷：5月嘛？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：5月就是這個月，所以這個月月底前會再召開說明會？"],["蕭院長宗煌：5月之後，對啊，大概6月份我們來召開。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，院長，我們輕鬆歸輕鬆，但是不能把方便當隨便啦！"],["蕭院長宗煌：我知道。"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在在問的是時程，你剛剛已經講了，我們會在第二次的設計變更之前再開說明會以及找專家學者，這個時程預定會在什麼時候？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為工程是黃副院長……"],["洪委員孟楷：你講出來的事情媒體會關注，媒體關注就會報導，有興趣的民眾大家就會去參與說明會，你現在要的是大家來參與說明會，而不是你今天偷偷摸摸辦了說明會，大家卻不知道，之後出來大家再譁然，你再說有啊！我們5月辦過說明會，不是這樣嘛！"],["蕭院長宗煌：說明會都有公告，不是偷偷摸摸，說明會都有公告。"],["洪委員孟楷：對，我不是要過場，我要的是院長告訴我們，既然3月出來大家譁然，現在你也講了會從善如流再召開說明會，那說明會什麼時候召開我們就告訴大家，比如說我們6月會有說明會，有興趣的媒體拜託大家來說明會瞭解一下，來。"],["黃副院長永泰：跟委員報告一下，我們資料已經在4月底送文化部文資會了，接下來我們會在6月……"],["洪委員孟楷：6月？"],["黃副院長永泰：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：6月擇一天開說明會，是不是？"],["黃副院長永泰：審查。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我這樣說啦！就是我不能僭越職權啦！其實委員……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以沒有說明會？"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是，委員也可以安排一個故宮考察，然後我們……"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，現在不是叫我們安排考察，奇怪！"],["蕭院長宗煌：說明會6月會辦。"],["洪委員孟楷：我在質詢你，你剛剛講有說明會，現在又說沒有了？所以根本沒有說明會，是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：6月會辦，跟同仁協調了，6月我們會辦一個說明會，邀請建築界的專業人員來。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，6月會辦針對故宮大門口這一個工程的說明會，也請時間地點確認之後，發函給本席以及教育及文化委員會的委員並且廣為周知，希望能夠邀請有興趣及關心的民眾共同參與，這樣可以嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：可以。"],["洪委員孟楷：最後，這一次翠玉白菜是因為518博物館節，我們南院有辦活動，那北院呢？"],["蕭院長宗煌：北院的國際博物館日也有辦活動，不同的活動。"],["洪委員孟楷：但我剛剛上來之前查你們官網並沒有看到任何一個關於518的活動，還有，明年是故宮百年，百歲的院慶，我們現在有沒有策劃特殊的展覽？"],["蕭院長宗煌：有一個故宮100plus的完整計畫。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，請在今天下班前給本席針對518博物館日北院的活動以及明年百歲院慶的相關計畫，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：OK，依照委員指示辦理。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們一起共同來慶祝，至少這個是臺灣的大事，我們中華民國的大事，也是世界的大事，我們都希望故宮把它辦好，謝謝。"],["蕭院長宗煌：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。接下來請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":64,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-11","speakers":["林宜瑾","萬美玲","柯志恩","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","張雅琳","吳沛憶","吳春城","葉元之","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","林倩綺","范雲","林楚茵","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1134301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席就「回首百年放眼未來─ 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00:00:47,870\n呃洪委員長院長故宮明年要迎來百歲的院慶啊但520將近到目前為止院長續任或是新人選都還不知道院長會不會覺得心裡不踏實或是有不尊重的感覺呃基本上來講這是一個憲政的常態就是說那個所有的部會首長都出來了只剩故宮院長還沒有出來這算常態啊呃以前有啊以前前兩天都有啊\n\n3\n00:00:48,567 --> 00:00:53,510\n所以到目前為止你也沒有受到不管是新任卓榮泰院長的一個約詢或是賴清德總統的約詢\n\n4\n00:01:17,895 --> 00:01:37,734\n沒有沒有好那我們現在也看到組織重整會不會降級故宮應不應該因為今天我們看到百年故宮部會級的博物館本席以及我們所有愛護文物的人大家也都非常關心院長你的態度是什麼故宮需要被降級嗎\n\n5\n00:01:39,691 --> 00:02:05,206\n故宮博物院在整個全世界博物館的範例裡面的話就是院長是部長級就館長是部長級的是那個成員的話在世界上其實是少見但是也是因為故宮博物院有特殊的一個政治因緣關係所以他做這樣的一個組織設計那未來的話組織設計怎麼處理的話基本上來講的話是行政院的前者\n\n6\n00:02:05,970 --> 00:02:30,399\n也是尊重別人不是院長你今天在故宮博物院一天你應該是捍衛故宮博物院的尊嚴捍衛故宮博物院的主持你的主張是什麼我個人已經表達了以目前來講的話故宮保留現狀的話對現階段的發展來講的話是比較好所以不應該被降級尊重行政院的決定院長\n\n7\n00:02:32,482 --> 00:02:55,320\n過去您也擔任過很多的職務其實本席剛剛看你被很多委員來質詢本席心裡是五味雜陳啊為什麼我相信你也不會縱容你也不會允許說我們有策展人員在翠玉白菜旁邊簽字嘛這不是什麼小瑕疵或嚴重疏失一句話就可以講完了你的專業在哪裡為什麼現在左閃右閃左支右觸\n\n8\n00:03:01,434 --> 00:03:16,329\n是不是心有掛礙啊是不是心裡還在想說我現在講這句話會不會惹上層不高興不要政治正確用專業判斷可以嗎什麼小瑕疵什麼小失誤不能做的事情就不能做不是嗎國保之所以為國保就在於它的不可逆性\n\n9\n00:03:24,299 --> 00:03:47,635\n歷史的長留那麼久我們現在有幸在2024年還可以看到一千多年前兩千多年前的文物或是說幾百年前的文物這都是屬於人類的珍寶一個不小心如果今天摔壞了破碎了那個是後代子孫都沒有辦法看到的不是嗎那哪有什麼小書師大書師嚴重書師專業是這樣子的嗎\n\n10\n00:03:53,919 --> 00:04:19,066\n我想社會對故宮博物院不只是委員對故宮是零容忍這個我非常非常的了解來院長我只是問這件事情是3月的事情對不對那到今天是5月8號5月7號還有人丟出來給委員爆料再對照現在故宮博物院院長職務還沒有確認本席不經懷疑\n\n11\n00:04:21,081 --> 00:04:49,670\n是不是內部有派系鬥爭有人虎視眈眈院長的位置所以故意在你今天有專案報告的時候前一天把3月的事情拿出來讓委員輪流來砲轟你有沒有這樣的狀況我想這是一個恰巧吧那當然不排除有這樣的一個猜測不排除有這樣的猜測所以你的位置坐不是很穩喔還是有什麼樣的勢力正虎視眈眈\n\n12\n00:04:51,465 --> 00:04:53,466\n所以代表院長你也自己寶寶心裡苦寶寶不說\n\n13\n00:05:16,987 --> 00:05:20,592\n過去這段時間其實坐這個位置也坐得如履薄冰戰戰兢兢\n\n14\n00:05:22,864 --> 00:05:49,867\n我們盡量盡量在同仁兢兢業業的一個工作環境下然後把故宮整個保護為好來啦院長我們不要再打官話這樣子所以現在看起來就是民進黨內部還有在全力鬥爭院長這個位置還沒有坐實坐穩那現在又有爆發這樣的狀況但是對於我們民意代表要求只有一點今天不管誰在這個位置上面對於國保的保護就是玲瓏人\n\n15\n00:05:50,808 --> 00:06:03,968\n就那麼簡單所以我現在請教我現在請教在這一件3月10號發生的事情裡面然後還有包括說有外人進出庫房那後面事後有沒有進行盤點清查跟檢視庫房裡面的文件\n\n16\n00:06:04,851 --> 00:06:05,332\n對內部人員的懲處跟對廠商的懲處是什麼?\n\n17\n00:06:21,910 --> 00:06:43,327\n廠商的懲處的話,我們會一合一來裁判。現在他們還沒有處理出來。那另外的話,就是有關考機會的懲處的話,目前就是我們主席和副院長把他退回,請南院的話重新釐清,然後再重新送懲處的名單。\n\n18\n00:06:44,372 --> 00:07:03,547\n所以到目前為止過了多久的時間啊兩個事情一個事情的話是庫房一個事情的話是吹白菜的事情吹白菜的話是因為台南美術館的話他才把那個整個結案報告送過來那目前的話他們還沒有簽到好什麼時候會出來下個禮拜\n\n19\n00:07:06,305 --> 00:07:06,665\n是不是?可以\n\n20\n00:07:24,673 --> 00:07:49,682\n另外3月的時候有故宮的修復計畫說明會大家看到也有點嘩然是說我們要在故宮的大門口設定玻璃亭那當然羅浮宮、大英博物館也有現代化新舊融合的設計我們也看到了但是很多人講是說以依照文資法故宮不是應該早辦說明會、公聽會並且把相關的資料通知居民來參與\n\n21\n00:07:50,902 --> 00:08:00,314\n但故宮怎麼一開始在網路公告只有圖片沒有說明後來要求才揭露部分的簡報檔那我們想請教到底是在搞神秘還是說現在\n\n22\n00:08:01,795 --> 00:08:22,149\n你要大開大立大破大合針對百年故宮來做相關的一個淨土設計那不是更應該現在就說服跟讓大家知道讓大家來參與嗎跟委員報告就是工程的花包跟設計概念然後審查跟進入到實際設計細部設計他是一個流程\n\n23\n00:08:26,272 --> 00:08:26,873\n現在到哪一個進度?\n\n24\n00:08:45,609 --> 00:08:49,453\n那第二次的修正計畫什麼時候會進行?\n\n25\n00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:27,698\n這個基本上來講的話就要變成是他們調整的因為原來的話再怎麼規劃的話也都是……沒有院長我們現在溝通一個觀念啦我是說因為今天出來大家媒體滑爛是說為什麼會在大門口的部分其實對故宮來講這個百年設計你還在做這個玻璃罩然後你變成是放任廠商去做設計計畫這樣也有點奇怪啊\n\n26\n00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:58,479\n這是之前22年招標的時候有四個廠商四個廠商裡面有一個廠商設計一個玻璃入口院長我建議不要補充紙他竊評重嫌院長這樣子感覺是對本席跟立院不尊重對不起我知道我知道你不是有心的對但是不要讓媒體拍到這畫面不好對不起鄭重道歉就說四家我比一二三四四家裡面有一家竊評重嫌我現在連比都不敢比\n\n27\n00:09:59,360 --> 00:09:59,380\n委員長\n\n28\n00:10:22,961 --> 00:10:47,957\n本席今天質疑的地方在哪裡在於是說3月的時候媒體報導出來說華蘭大家會覺得是說怎麼會突然間這樣的一個方向那還有更重要的是我退一萬步講阿會不會之後人走茶樑如果說假設520真的先開名單不是你那會不會之後下一個院長來又有下一個院長的想法完全又變更設計\n\n29\n00:10:49,690 --> 00:11:01,419\n那到最後國人就不知道說我的百年故宮到底你的形狀要長什麼樣那最合理的方式不是應該是先匯集大家的意見至少有一個一致的方向我們再來做\n\n30\n00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:31,021\n我想這個部分的話剛委員指教的是就是說我們已經把所有的名譽跟媒體報導給那個設計團隊設計團隊什麼時候會再第二次出來設計團隊要送出去之前在送到文資審議之前的話我們會再召開說明會甚至邀請建築界的專家寫者然後來共同參與然後就是說這個時程是什麼時候送出去的時候\n\n31\n00:11:32,642 --> 00:11:58,793\n你還會再召開說明會還會再召集專家學者那這個時辰會在什麼時候下一任院長所以你是準備要走人了是不是沒有啦沒有啦基本上來講以現在的時辰安排的話就差不多也要到五月之後五月嘛五月就是這個月所以這個月月底前會再召開說明會五月之後啊對啊五月之後就是大概六月份我們來召開\n\n32\n00:12:00,356 --> 00:12:21,531\n院長我們輕鬆歸輕鬆但是不能把方便當隨便我知道我現在在問的是時程就是說你剛剛已經講了我們會在第二次的設計變更之前再開說明會以及找專家學者那這個時程會預定在什麼時候工程是我們那個洪副院長是對你講出來的事情媒體會關注媒體關注會報導有興趣的民眾說明會大家就會去參與\n\n33\n00:12:26,338 --> 00:12:51,809\n你現在要的是說明會大家來參與而不是說你今天偷偷摸摸辦了說明會大家不知道然後之後出來之後大家在划籃你再講說有啊五月辦過說明會不是這樣嘛對我不是要過場我要的是院長告訴我們既然三月出來大家有划籃那現在你也講了我們會從善如流再召開說明會那說明會什麼時候我們就告訴大家我們譬如六月會有說明會\n\n34\n00:12:52,509 --> 00:13:13,528\n有興趣的媒體拜託大家來說明會了解一下來跟委員報告一下那我們資料已經在4月底送文字會了那接下來我們會在6月6月6月則一天開說明會是不是\n\n35\n00:13:16,030 --> 00:13:22,231\n請問我再質詢你你剛講說有說明會現在又說沒有了所以根本沒有說明會是不是六月會辦\n\n36\n00:13:39,995 --> 00:14:05,222\n6月會辦跟同仁協調了6月我們會辦一個說明會邀請建築界的專業人員來6月會辦針對故宮大門口的這個工程的說明會那也請時間地點確認之後也發函給本席以及我們教育文化委員會的委員並且廣為周知希望能夠邀請大家有興趣關心的民眾可以共同參與這樣可以嗎可以\n\n37\n00:14:08,348 --> 00:14:37,174\n最後不好意思主席30秒518這次翠玉白菜是因為518博物館節那我們南院有辦活動那北院呢北院的國際博物館日也有辦活動但我剛剛上來之前查我們官網並沒有看到任何一個518的活動那還有明年是故宮百年百歲的願慶我們現在策劃特殊的展覽有沒有\n\n38\n00:14:38,415 --> 00:14:38,435\n謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n49\t309\t主席謝謝麻煩請蕭院長有請蕭院長\n19015\t47870\t呃 洪委員長院長故宮明年要迎來百歲的院慶啊但520將近到目前為止院長續任或是新人選都還不知道院長會不會覺得心裡不踏實或是有不尊重的感覺呃 基本上來講這是一個憲政的常態就是說那個所有的部會首長都出來了只剩故宮院長還沒有出來這算常態啊呃 以前有啊 以前前兩天都有啊\n48567\t53510\t所以到目前為止你也沒有受到不管是新任卓榮泰院長的一個約詢或是賴清德總統的約詢\n77895\t97734\t沒有沒有好那我們現在也看到組織重整會不會降級故宮應不應該因為今天我們看到百年故宮部會級的博物館本席以及我們所有愛護文物的人大家也都非常關心院長你的態度是什麼故宮需要被降級嗎\n99691\t125206\t故宮博物院在整個全世界博物館的範例裡面的話就是院長是部長級就館長是部長級的是那個成員的話在世界上其實是少見但是也是因為故宮博物院有特殊的一個政治因緣關係所以他做這樣的一個組織設計那未來的話組織設計怎麼處理的話基本上來講的話是行政院的前者\n125970\t150399\t也是尊重別人不是 院長你今天在故宮博物院一天你應該是捍衛故宮博物院的尊嚴捍衛故宮博物院的主持你的主張是什麼我個人已經表達了以目前來講的話故宮保留現狀的話對現階段的發展來講的話是比較好所以不應該被降級尊重行政院的決定院長\n152482\t175320\t過去您也擔任過很多的職務其實本席剛剛看你被很多委員來質詢本席心裡是五味雜陳啊為什麼我相信你也不會縱容你也不會允許說我們有策展人員在翠玉白菜旁邊簽字嘛這不是什麼小瑕疵或嚴重疏失一句話就可以講完了你的專業在哪裡為什麼現在左閃右閃左支右觸\n181434\t196329\t是不是心有掛礙啊是不是心裡還在想說我現在講這句話會不會惹上層不高興不要政治正確用專業判斷可以嗎什麼小瑕疵什麼小失誤不能做的事情就不能做不是嗎國保之所以為國保就在於它的不可逆性\n204299\t227635\t歷史的長留那麼久我們現在有幸在2024年還可以看到一千多年前兩千多年前的文物或是說幾百年前的文物這都是屬於人類的珍寶一個不小心如果今天摔壞了破碎了那個是後代子孫都沒有辦法看到的不是嗎那哪有什麼小書師大書師嚴重書師專業是這樣子的嗎\n233919\t259066\t我想社會對故宮博物院不只是委員對故宮是零容忍這個我非常非常的了解來院長我只是問這件事情是3月的事情對不對那到今天是5月8號5月7號還有人丟出來給委員爆料再對照現在故宮博物院院長職務還沒有確認本席不經懷疑\n261081\t289670\t是不是內部有派系鬥爭有人虎視眈眈院長的位置所以故意在你今天有專案報告的時候前一天把3月的事情拿出來讓委員輪流來砲轟你有沒有這樣的狀況我想這是一個恰巧吧那當然不排除有這樣的一個猜測不排除有這樣的猜測所以你的位置坐不是很穩喔還是有什麼樣的勢力正虎視眈眈\n291465\t293466\t所以代表院長你也自己寶寶心裡苦寶寶不說\n316987\t320592\t過去這段時間其實坐這個位置也坐得如履薄冰戰戰兢兢\n322864\t349867\t我們盡量盡量在同仁兢兢業業的一個工作環境下然後把故宮整個保護為好來啦 院長我們不要再打官話這樣子所以現在看起來就是民進黨內部還有在全力鬥爭院長這個位置還沒有坐實坐穩那現在又有爆發這樣的狀況但是對於我們民意代表要求只有一點今天不管誰在這個位置上面對於國保的保護就是玲瓏人\n350808\t363968\t就那麼簡單所以我現在請教我現在請教在這一件3月10號發生的事情裡面然後還有包括說有外人進出庫房那後面事後有沒有進行盤點清查跟檢視庫房裡面的文件\n364851\t365332\t對內部人員的懲處跟對廠商的懲處是什麼?\n381910\t403327\t廠商的懲處的話,我們會一合一來裁判。現在他們還沒有處理出來。那另外的話,就是有關考機會的懲處的話,目前就是我們主席和副院長把他退回,請南院的話重新釐清,然後再重新送懲處的名單。\n404372\t423547\t所以到目前為止 過了多久的時間啊兩個事情 一個事情的話是庫房 一個事情的話是吹白菜的事情吹白菜的話是因為台南美術館的話他才把那個整個結案報告送過來那目前的話他們還沒有簽到好 什麼時候會出來下個禮拜\n426305\t426665\t是不是?可以\n444673\t469682\t另外3月的時候有故宮的修復計畫說明會大家看到也有點嘩然是說我們要在故宮的大門口設定玻璃亭那當然羅浮宮、大英博物館也有現代化新舊融合的設計我們也看到了但是很多人講是說以依照文資法故宮不是應該早辦說明會、公聽會並且把相關的資料通知居民來參與\n470902\t480314\t但故宮怎麼一開始在網路公告只有圖片沒有說明後來要求才揭露部分的簡報檔那我們想請教到底是在搞神秘還是說現在\n481795\t502149\t你要大開大立大破大合針對百年故宮來做相關的一個淨土設計那不是更應該現在就說服跟讓大家知道讓大家來參與嗎跟委員報告就是工程的花包跟設計概念然後審查跟進入到實際設計細部設計他是一個流程\n506272\t506873\t現在到哪一個進度?\n525609\t529453\t那第二次的修正計畫什麼時候會進行?\n546720\t567698\t這個基本上來講的話就要變成是他們調整的因為原來的話再怎麼規劃的話也都是……沒有 院長我們現在溝通一個觀念啦我是說因為今天出來大家媒體滑爛是說為什麼會在大門口的部分其實對故宮來講這個百年設計你還在做這個玻璃罩然後你變成是放任廠商去做設計計畫這樣也有點奇怪啊\n569720\t598479\t這是之前22年招標的時候有四個廠商四個廠商裡面有一個廠商設計一個玻璃入口院長我建議不要補充紙他竊評重嫌院長這樣子感覺是對本席跟立院不尊重對不起我知道我知道你不是有心的對但是不要讓媒體拍到這畫面不好對不起鄭重道歉就說四家我比一二三四四家裡面有一家竊評重嫌我現在連比都不敢比\n599360\t599380\t委員長\n622961\t647957\t本席今天質疑的地方在哪裡在於是說3月的時候媒體報導出來說華蘭大家會覺得是說怎麼會突然間這樣的一個方向那還有更重要的是我退一萬步講阿會不會之後人走茶樑如果說假設520真的先開名單不是你那會不會之後下一個院長來又有下一個院長的想法完全又變更設計\n649690\t661419\t那到最後國人就不知道說我的百年故宮到底你的形狀要長什麼樣那最合理的方式不是應該是先匯集大家的意見至少有一個一致的方向我們再來做\n664160\t691021\t我想這個部分的話剛委員指教的是就是說我們已經把所有的名譽跟媒體報導給那個設計團隊設計團隊什麼時候會再第二次出來設計團隊要送出去之前在送到文資審議之前的話我們會再召開說明會甚至邀請建築界的專家寫者然後來共同參與然後就是說這個時程是什麼時候送出去的時候\n692642\t718793\t你還會再召開說明會還會再召集專家學者那這個時辰會在什麼時候下一任院長所以你是準備要走人了是不是沒有啦沒有啦基本上來講以現在的時辰安排的話就差不多也要到五月之後五月嘛五月就是這個月所以這個月月底前會再召開說明會五月之後啊對啊五月之後就是大概六月份我們來召開\n720356\t741531\t院長我們輕鬆歸輕鬆但是不能把方便當隨便我知道我現在在問的是時程就是說你剛剛已經講了我們會在第二次的設計變更之前再開說明會以及找專家學者那這個時程會預定在什麼時候工程是我們那個洪副院長是對你講出來的事情媒體會關注媒體關注會報導有興趣的民眾說明會大家就會去參與\n746338\t771809\t你現在要的是說明會大家來參與而不是說你今天偷偷摸摸辦了說明會大家不知道然後之後出來之後大家在划籃你再講說有啊五月辦過說明會不是這樣嘛對我不是要過場我要的是院長告訴我們既然三月出來大家有划籃那現在你也講了我們會從善如流再召開說明會那說明會什麼時候我們就告訴大家我們譬如六月會有說明會\n772509\t793528\t有興趣的媒體拜託大家來說明會了解一下來跟委員報告一下那我們資料已經在4月底送文字會了那接下來我們會在6月6月6月則一天開說明會是不是\n796030\t802231\t請問我再質詢你你剛講說有說明會現在又說沒有了所以根本沒有說明會是不是六月會辦\n819995\t845222\t6月會辦跟同仁協調了6月我們會辦一個說明會邀請建築界的專業人員來6月會辦針對故宮大門口的這個工程的說明會那也請時間地點確認之後也發函給本席以及我們教育文化委員會的委員並且廣為周知希望能夠邀請大家有興趣關心的民眾可以共同參與這樣可以嗎可以\n848348\t877174\t最後不好意思主席30秒518這次翠玉白菜是因為518博物館節那我們南院有辦活動那北院呢北院的國際博物館日也有辦活動但我剛剛上來之前查我們官網並沒有看到任何一個518的活動那還有明年是故宮百年百歲的願慶我們現在策劃特殊的展覽有沒有\n878415\t878435\t謝謝委員\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請蕭院長有請蕭院長\n呃 洪委員長院長故宮明年要迎來百歲的院慶啊但520將近到目前為止院長續任或是新人選都還不知道院長會不會覺得心裡不踏實或是有不尊重的感覺呃 基本上來講這是一個憲政的常態就是說那個所有的部會首長都出來了只剩故宮院長還沒有出來這算常態啊呃 以前有啊 以前前兩天都有啊\n所以到目前為止你也沒有受到不管是新任卓榮泰院長的一個約詢或是賴清德總統的約詢\n沒有沒有好那我們現在也看到組織重整會不會降級故宮應不應該因為今天我們看到百年故宮部會級的博物館本席以及我們所有愛護文物的人大家也都非常關心院長你的態度是什麼故宮需要被降級嗎\n故宮博物院在整個全世界博物館的範例裡面的話就是院長是部長級就館長是部長級的是那個成員的話在世界上其實是少見但是也是因為故宮博物院有特殊的一個政治因緣關係所以他做這樣的一個組織設計那未來的話組織設計怎麼處理的話基本上來講的話是行政院的前者\n也是尊重別人不是 院長你今天在故宮博物院一天你應該是捍衛故宮博物院的尊嚴捍衛故宮博物院的主持你的主張是什麼我個人已經表達了以目前來講的話故宮保留現狀的話對現階段的發展來講的話是比較好所以不應該被降級尊重行政院的決定院長\n過去您也擔任過很多的職務其實本席剛剛看你被很多委員來質詢本席心裡是五味雜陳啊為什麼我相信你也不會縱容你也不會允許說我們有策展人員在翠玉白菜旁邊簽字嘛這不是什麼小瑕疵或嚴重疏失一句話就可以講完了你的專業在哪裡為什麼現在左閃右閃左支右觸\n是不是心有掛礙啊是不是心裡還在想說我現在講這句話會不會惹上層不高興不要政治正確用專業判斷可以嗎什麼小瑕疵什麼小失誤不能做的事情就不能做不是嗎國保之所以為國保就在於它的不可逆性\n歷史的長留那麼久我們現在有幸在2024年還可以看到一千多年前兩千多年前的文物或是說幾百年前的文物這都是屬於人類的珍寶一個不小心如果今天摔壞了破碎了那個是後代子孫都沒有辦法看到的不是嗎那哪有什麼小書師大書師嚴重書師專業是這樣子的嗎\n我想社會對故宮博物院不只是委員對故宮是零容忍這個我非常非常的了解來院長我只是問這件事情是3月的事情對不對那到今天是5月8號5月7號還有人丟出來給委員爆料再對照現在故宮博物院院長職務還沒有確認本席不經懷疑\n是不是內部有派系鬥爭有人虎視眈眈院長的位置所以故意在你今天有專案報告的時候前一天把3月的事情拿出來讓委員輪流來砲轟你有沒有這樣的狀況我想這是一個恰巧吧那當然不排除有這樣的一個猜測不排除有這樣的猜測所以你的位置坐不是很穩喔還是有什麼樣的勢力正虎視眈眈\n所以代表院長你也自己寶寶心裡苦寶寶不說\n過去這段時間其實坐這個位置也坐得如履薄冰戰戰兢兢\n我們盡量盡量在同仁兢兢業業的一個工作環境下然後把故宮整個保護為好來啦 院長我們不要再打官話這樣子所以現在看起來就是民進黨內部還有在全力鬥爭院長這個位置還沒有坐實坐穩那現在又有爆發這樣的狀況但是對於我們民意代表要求只有一點今天不管誰在這個位置上面對於國保的保護就是玲瓏人\n就那麼簡單所以我現在請教我現在請教在這一件3月10號發生的事情裡面然後還有包括說有外人進出庫房那後面事後有沒有進行盤點清查跟檢視庫房裡面的文件\n對內部人員的懲處跟對廠商的懲處是什麼?\n廠商的懲處的話,我們會一合一來裁判。現在他們還沒有處理出來。那另外的話,就是有關考機會的懲處的話,目前就是我們主席和副院長把他退回,請南院的話重新釐清,然後再重新送懲處的名單。\n所以到目前為止 過了多久的時間啊兩個事情 一個事情的話是庫房 一個事情的話是吹白菜的事情吹白菜的話是因為台南美術館的話他才把那個整個結案報告送過來那目前的話他們還沒有簽到好 什麼時候會出來下個禮拜\n是不是?可以\n另外3月的時候有故宮的修復計畫說明會大家看到也有點嘩然是說我們要在故宮的大門口設定玻璃亭那當然羅浮宮、大英博物館也有現代化新舊融合的設計我們也看到了但是很多人講是說以依照文資法故宮不是應該早辦說明會、公聽會並且把相關的資料通知居民來參與\n但故宮怎麼一開始在網路公告只有圖片沒有說明後來要求才揭露部分的簡報檔那我們想請教到底是在搞神秘還是說現在\n你要大開大立大破大合針對百年故宮來做相關的一個淨土設計那不是更應該現在就說服跟讓大家知道讓大家來參與嗎跟委員報告就是工程的花包跟設計概念然後審查跟進入到實際設計細部設計他是一個流程\n現在到哪一個進度?\n那第二次的修正計畫什麼時候會進行?\n這個基本上來講的話就要變成是他們調整的因為原來的話再怎麼規劃的話也都是……沒有 院長我們現在溝通一個觀念啦我是說因為今天出來大家媒體滑爛是說為什麼會在大門口的部分其實對故宮來講這個百年設計你還在做這個玻璃罩然後你變成是放任廠商去做設計計畫這樣也有點奇怪啊\n這是之前22年招標的時候有四個廠商四個廠商裡面有一個廠商設計一個玻璃入口院長我建議不要補充紙他竊評重嫌院長這樣子感覺是對本席跟立院不尊重對不起我知道我知道你不是有心的對但是不要讓媒體拍到這畫面不好對不起鄭重道歉就說四家我比一二三四四家裡面有一家竊評重嫌我現在連比都不敢比\n委員長\n本席今天質疑的地方在哪裡在於是說3月的時候媒體報導出來說華蘭大家會覺得是說怎麼會突然間這樣的一個方向那還有更重要的是我退一萬步講阿會不會之後人走茶樑如果說假設520真的先開名單不是你那會不會之後下一個院長來又有下一個院長的想法完全又變更設計\n那到最後國人就不知道說我的百年故宮到底你的形狀要長什麼樣那最合理的方式不是應該是先匯集大家的意見至少有一個一致的方向我們再來做\n我想這個部分的話剛委員指教的是就是說我們已經把所有的名譽跟媒體報導給那個設計團隊設計團隊什麼時候會再第二次出來設計團隊要送出去之前在送到文資審議之前的話我們會再召開說明會甚至邀請建築界的專家寫者然後來共同參與然後就是說這個時程是什麼時候送出去的時候\n你還會再召開說明會還會再召集專家學者那這個時辰會在什麼時候下一任院長所以你是準備要走人了是不是沒有啦沒有啦基本上來講以現在的時辰安排的話就差不多也要到五月之後五月嘛五月就是這個月所以這個月月底前會再召開說明會五月之後啊對啊五月之後就是大概六月份我們來召開\n院長我們輕鬆歸輕鬆但是不能把方便當隨便我知道我現在在問的是時程就是說你剛剛已經講了我們會在第二次的設計變更之前再開說明會以及找專家學者那這個時程會預定在什麼時候工程是我們那個洪副院長是對你講出來的事情媒體會關注媒體關注會報導有興趣的民眾說明會大家就會去參與\n你現在要的是說明會大家來參與而不是說你今天偷偷摸摸辦了說明會大家不知道然後之後出來之後大家在划籃你再講說有啊五月辦過說明會不是這樣嘛對我不是要過場我要的是院長告訴我們既然三月出來大家有划籃那現在你也講了我們會從善如流再召開說明會那說明會什麼時候我們就告訴大家我們譬如六月會有說明會\n有興趣的媒體拜託大家來說明會了解一下來跟委員報告一下那我們資料已經在4月底送文字會了那接下來我們會在6月6月6月則一天開說明會是不是\n請問我再質詢你你剛講說有說明會現在又說沒有了所以根本沒有說明會是不是六月會辦\n6月會辦跟同仁協調了6月我們會辦一個說明會邀請建築界的專業人員來6月會辦針對故宮大門口的這個工程的說明會那也請時間地點確認之後也發函給本席以及我們教育文化委員會的委員並且廣為周知希望能夠邀請大家有興趣關心的民眾可以共同參與這樣可以嗎可以\n最後不好意思主席30秒518這次翠玉白菜是因為518博物館節那我們南院有辦活動那北院呢北院的國際博物館日也有辦活動但我剛剛上來之前查我們官網並沒有看到任何一個518的活動那還有明年是故宮百年百歲的願慶我們現在策劃特殊的展覽有沒有\n謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.049 --> 00:00.309\n主席謝謝麻煩請蕭院長有請蕭院長\n\n00:19.015 --> 00:47.870\n呃洪委員長院長故宮明年要迎來百歲的院慶啊但520將近到目前為止院長續任或是新人選都還不知道院長會不會覺得心裡不踏實或是有不尊重的感覺呃基本上來講這是一個憲政的常態就是說那個所有的部會首長都出來了只剩故宮院長還沒有出來這算常態啊呃以前有啊以前前兩天都有啊\n\n00:48.567 --> 00:53.510\n所以到目前為止你也沒有受到不管是新任卓榮泰院長的一個約詢或是賴清德總統的約詢\n\n01:17.895 --> 01:37.734\n沒有沒有好那我們現在也看到組織重整會不會降級故宮應不應該因為今天我們看到百年故宮部會級的博物館本席以及我們所有愛護文物的人大家也都非常關心院長你的態度是什麼故宮需要被降級嗎\n\n01:39.691 --> 02:05.206\n故宮博物院在整個全世界博物館的範例裡面的話就是院長是部長級就館長是部長級的是那個成員的話在世界上其實是少見但是也是因為故宮博物院有特殊的一個政治因緣關係所以他做這樣的一個組織設計那未來的話組織設計怎麼處理的話基本上來講的話是行政院的前者\n\n02:05.970 --> 02:30.399\n也是尊重別人不是院長你今天在故宮博物院一天你應該是捍衛故宮博物院的尊嚴捍衛故宮博物院的主持你的主張是什麼我個人已經表達了以目前來講的話故宮保留現狀的話對現階段的發展來講的話是比較好所以不應該被降級尊重行政院的決定院長\n\n02:32.482 --> 02:55.320\n過去您也擔任過很多的職務其實本席剛剛看你被很多委員來質詢本席心裡是五味雜陳啊為什麼我相信你也不會縱容你也不會允許說我們有策展人員在翠玉白菜旁邊簽字嘛這不是什麼小瑕疵或嚴重疏失一句話就可以講完了你的專業在哪裡為什麼現在左閃右閃左支右觸\n\n03:01.434 --> 03:16.329\n是不是心有掛礙啊是不是心裡還在想說我現在講這句話會不會惹上層不高興不要政治正確用專業判斷可以嗎什麼小瑕疵什麼小失誤不能做的事情就不能做不是嗎國保之所以為國保就在於它的不可逆性\n\n03:24.299 --> 03:47.635\n歷史的長留那麼久我們現在有幸在2024年還可以看到一千多年前兩千多年前的文物或是說幾百年前的文物這都是屬於人類的珍寶一個不小心如果今天摔壞了破碎了那個是後代子孫都沒有辦法看到的不是嗎那哪有什麼小書師大書師嚴重書師專業是這樣子的嗎\n\n03:53.919 --> 04:19.066\n我想社會對故宮博物院不只是委員對故宮是零容忍這個我非常非常的了解來院長我只是問這件事情是3月的事情對不對那到今天是5月8號5月7號還有人丟出來給委員爆料再對照現在故宮博物院院長職務還沒有確認本席不經懷疑\n\n04:21.081 --> 04:49.670\n是不是內部有派系鬥爭有人虎視眈眈院長的位置所以故意在你今天有專案報告的時候前一天把3月的事情拿出來讓委員輪流來砲轟你有沒有這樣的狀況我想這是一個恰巧吧那當然不排除有這樣的一個猜測不排除有這樣的猜測所以你的位置坐不是很穩喔還是有什麼樣的勢力正虎視眈眈\n\n04:51.465 --> 04:53.466\n所以代表院長你也自己寶寶心裡苦寶寶不說\n\n05:16.987 --> 05:20.592\n過去這段時間其實坐這個位置也坐得如履薄冰戰戰兢兢\n\n05:22.864 --> 05:49.867\n我們盡量盡量在同仁兢兢業業的一個工作環境下然後把故宮整個保護為好來啦院長我們不要再打官話這樣子所以現在看起來就是民進黨內部還有在全力鬥爭院長這個位置還沒有坐實坐穩那現在又有爆發這樣的狀況但是對於我們民意代表要求只有一點今天不管誰在這個位置上面對於國保的保護就是玲瓏人\n\n05:50.808 --> 06:03.968\n就那麼簡單所以我現在請教我現在請教在這一件3月10號發生的事情裡面然後還有包括說有外人進出庫房那後面事後有沒有進行盤點清查跟檢視庫房裡面的文件\n\n06:04.851 --> 06:05.332\n對內部人員的懲處跟對廠商的懲處是什麼?\n\n06:21.910 --> 06:43.327\n廠商的懲處的話,我們會一合一來裁判。現在他們還沒有處理出來。那另外的話,就是有關考機會的懲處的話,目前就是我們主席和副院長把他退回,請南院的話重新釐清,然後再重新送懲處的名單。\n\n06:44.372 --> 07:03.547\n所以到目前為止過了多久的時間啊兩個事情一個事情的話是庫房一個事情的話是吹白菜的事情吹白菜的話是因為台南美術館的話他才把那個整個結案報告送過來那目前的話他們還沒有簽到好什麼時候會出來下個禮拜\n\n07:06.305 --> 07:06.665\n是不是?可以\n\n07:24.673 --> 07:49.682\n另外3月的時候有故宮的修復計畫說明會大家看到也有點嘩然是說我們要在故宮的大門口設定玻璃亭那當然羅浮宮、大英博物館也有現代化新舊融合的設計我們也看到了但是很多人講是說以依照文資法故宮不是應該早辦說明會、公聽會並且把相關的資料通知居民來參與\n\n07:50.902 --> 08:00.314\n但故宮怎麼一開始在網路公告只有圖片沒有說明後來要求才揭露部分的簡報檔那我們想請教到底是在搞神秘還是說現在\n\n08:01.795 --> 08:22.149\n你要大開大立大破大合針對百年故宮來做相關的一個淨土設計那不是更應該現在就說服跟讓大家知道讓大家來參與嗎跟委員報告就是工程的花包跟設計概念然後審查跟進入到實際設計細部設計他是一個流程\n\n08:26.272 --> 08:26.873\n現在到哪一個進度?\n\n08:45.609 --> 08:49.453\n那第二次的修正計畫什麼時候會進行?\n\n09:06.720 --> 09:27.698\n這個基本上來講的話就要變成是他們調整的因為原來的話再怎麼規劃的話也都是……沒有院長我們現在溝通一個觀念啦我是說因為今天出來大家媒體滑爛是說為什麼會在大門口的部分其實對故宮來講這個百年設計你還在做這個玻璃罩然後你變成是放任廠商去做設計計畫這樣也有點奇怪啊\n\n09:29.720 --> 09:58.479\n這是之前22年招標的時候有四個廠商四個廠商裡面有一個廠商設計一個玻璃入口院長我建議不要補充紙他竊評重嫌院長這樣子感覺是對本席跟立院不尊重對不起我知道我知道你不是有心的對但是不要讓媒體拍到這畫面不好對不起鄭重道歉就說四家我比一二三四四家裡面有一家竊評重嫌我現在連比都不敢比\n\n09:59.360 --> 09:59.380\n委員長\n\n10:22.961 --> 10:47.957\n本席今天質疑的地方在哪裡在於是說3月的時候媒體報導出來說華蘭大家會覺得是說怎麼會突然間這樣的一個方向那還有更重要的是我退一萬步講阿會不會之後人走茶樑如果說假設520真的先開名單不是你那會不會之後下一個院長來又有下一個院長的想法完全又變更設計\n\n10:49.690 --> 11:01.419\n那到最後國人就不知道說我的百年故宮到底你的形狀要長什麼樣那最合理的方式不是應該是先匯集大家的意見至少有一個一致的方向我們再來做\n\n11:04.160 --> 11:31.021\n我想這個部分的話剛委員指教的是就是說我們已經把所有的名譽跟媒體報導給那個設計團隊設計團隊什麼時候會再第二次出來設計團隊要送出去之前在送到文資審議之前的話我們會再召開說明會甚至邀請建築界的專家寫者然後來共同參與然後就是說這個時程是什麼時候送出去的時候\n\n11:32.642 --> 11:58.793\n你還會再召開說明會還會再召集專家學者那這個時辰會在什麼時候下一任院長所以你是準備要走人了是不是沒有啦沒有啦基本上來講以現在的時辰安排的話就差不多也要到五月之後五月嘛五月就是這個月所以這個月月底前會再召開說明會五月之後啊對啊五月之後就是大概六月份我們來召開\n\n12:00.356 --> 12:21.531\n院長我們輕鬆歸輕鬆但是不能把方便當隨便我知道我現在在問的是時程就是說你剛剛已經講了我們會在第二次的設計變更之前再開說明會以及找專家學者那這個時程會預定在什麼時候工程是我們那個洪副院長是對你講出來的事情媒體會關注媒體關注會報導有興趣的民眾說明會大家就會去參與\n\n12:26.338 --> 12:51.809\n你現在要的是說明會大家來參與而不是說你今天偷偷摸摸辦了說明會大家不知道然後之後出來之後大家在划籃你再講說有啊五月辦過說明會不是這樣嘛對我不是要過場我要的是院長告訴我們既然三月出來大家有划籃那現在你也講了我們會從善如流再召開說明會那說明會什麼時候我們就告訴大家我們譬如六月會有說明會\n\n12:52.509 --> 13:13.528\n有興趣的媒體拜託大家來說明會了解一下來跟委員報告一下那我們資料已經在4月底送文字會了那接下來我們會在6月6月6月則一天開說明會是不是\n\n13:16.030 --> 13:22.231\n請問我再質詢你你剛講說有說明會現在又說沒有了所以根本沒有說明會是不是六月會辦\n\n13:39.995 --> 14:05.222\n6月會辦跟同仁協調了6月我們會辦一個說明會邀請建築界的專業人員來6月會辦針對故宮大門口的這個工程的說明會那也請時間地點確認之後也發函給本席以及我們教育文化委員會的委員並且廣為周知希望能夠邀請大家有興趣關心的民眾可以共同參與這樣可以嗎可以\n\n14:08.348 --> 14:37.174\n最後不好意思主席30秒518這次翠玉白菜是因為518博物館節那我們南院有辦活動那北院呢北院的國際博物館日也有辦活動但我剛剛上來之前查我們官網並沒有看到任何一個518的活動那還有明年是故宮百年百歲的願慶我們現在策劃特殊的展覽有沒有\n\n14:38.415 --> 14:38.435\n謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.049,"end":0.309,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請蕭院長有請蕭院長"},{"start":19.015,"end":47.87,"text":"呃 洪委員長院長故宮明年要迎來百歲的院慶啊但520將近到目前為止院長續任或是新人選都還不知道院長會不會覺得心裡不踏實或是有不尊重的感覺呃 基本上來講這是一個憲政的常態就是說那個所有的部會首長都出來了只剩故宮院長還沒有出來這算常態啊呃 以前有啊 以前前兩天都有啊"},{"start":48.567,"end":53.51,"text":"所以到目前為止你也沒有受到不管是新任卓榮泰院長的一個約詢或是賴清德總統的約詢"},{"start":77.895,"end":97.734,"text":"沒有沒有好那我們現在也看到組織重整會不會降級故宮應不應該因為今天我們看到百年故宮部會級的博物館本席以及我們所有愛護文物的人大家也都非常關心院長你的態度是什麼故宮需要被降級嗎"},{"start":99.691,"end":125.206,"text":"故宮博物院在整個全世界博物館的範例裡面的話就是院長是部長級就館長是部長級的是那個成員的話在世界上其實是少見但是也是因為故宮博物院有特殊的一個政治因緣關係所以他做這樣的一個組織設計那未來的話組織設計怎麼處理的話基本上來講的話是行政院的前者"},{"start":125.97,"end":150.399,"text":"也是尊重別人不是 院長你今天在故宮博物院一天你應該是捍衛故宮博物院的尊嚴捍衛故宮博物院的主持你的主張是什麼我個人已經表達了以目前來講的話故宮保留現狀的話對現階段的發展來講的話是比較好所以不應該被降級尊重行政院的決定院長"},{"start":152.482,"end":175.32,"text":"過去您也擔任過很多的職務其實本席剛剛看你被很多委員來質詢本席心裡是五味雜陳啊為什麼我相信你也不會縱容你也不會允許說我們有策展人員在翠玉白菜旁邊簽字嘛這不是什麼小瑕疵或嚴重疏失一句話就可以講完了你的專業在哪裡為什麼現在左閃右閃左支右觸"},{"start":181.434,"end":196.329,"text":"是不是心有掛礙啊是不是心裡還在想說我現在講這句話會不會惹上層不高興不要政治正確用專業判斷可以嗎什麼小瑕疵什麼小失誤不能做的事情就不能做不是嗎國保之所以為國保就在於它的不可逆性"},{"start":204.299,"end":227.635,"text":"歷史的長留那麼久我們現在有幸在2024年還可以看到一千多年前兩千多年前的文物或是說幾百年前的文物這都是屬於人類的珍寶一個不小心如果今天摔壞了破碎了那個是後代子孫都沒有辦法看到的不是嗎那哪有什麼小書師大書師嚴重書師專業是這樣子的嗎"},{"start":233.919,"end":259.066,"text":"我想社會對故宮博物院不只是委員對故宮是零容忍這個我非常非常的了解來院長我只是問這件事情是3月的事情對不對那到今天是5月8號5月7號還有人丟出來給委員爆料再對照現在故宮博物院院長職務還沒有確認本席不經懷疑"},{"start":261.081,"end":289.67,"text":"是不是內部有派系鬥爭有人虎視眈眈院長的位置所以故意在你今天有專案報告的時候前一天把3月的事情拿出來讓委員輪流來砲轟你有沒有這樣的狀況我想這是一個恰巧吧那當然不排除有這樣的一個猜測不排除有這樣的猜測所以你的位置坐不是很穩喔還是有什麼樣的勢力正虎視眈眈"},{"start":291.465,"end":293.466,"text":"所以代表院長你也自己寶寶心裡苦寶寶不說"},{"start":316.987,"end":320.592,"text":"過去這段時間其實坐這個位置也坐得如履薄冰戰戰兢兢"},{"start":322.864,"end":349.867,"text":"我們盡量盡量在同仁兢兢業業的一個工作環境下然後把故宮整個保護為好來啦 院長我們不要再打官話這樣子所以現在看起來就是民進黨內部還有在全力鬥爭院長這個位置還沒有坐實坐穩那現在又有爆發這樣的狀況但是對於我們民意代表要求只有一點今天不管誰在這個位置上面對於國保的保護就是玲瓏人"},{"start":350.808,"end":363.968,"text":"就那麼簡單所以我現在請教我現在請教在這一件3月10號發生的事情裡面然後還有包括說有外人進出庫房那後面事後有沒有進行盤點清查跟檢視庫房裡面的文件"},{"start":364.851,"end":365.332,"text":"對內部人員的懲處跟對廠商的懲處是什麼?"},{"start":381.91,"end":403.327,"text":"廠商的懲處的話,我們會一合一來裁判。現在他們還沒有處理出來。那另外的話,就是有關考機會的懲處的話,目前就是我們主席和副院長把他退回,請南院的話重新釐清,然後再重新送懲處的名單。"},{"start":404.372,"end":423.547,"text":"所以到目前為止 過了多久的時間啊兩個事情 一個事情的話是庫房 一個事情的話是吹白菜的事情吹白菜的話是因為台南美術館的話他才把那個整個結案報告送過來那目前的話他們還沒有簽到好 什麼時候會出來下個禮拜"},{"start":426.305,"end":426.665,"text":"是不是?可以"},{"start":444.673,"end":469.682,"text":"另外3月的時候有故宮的修復計畫說明會大家看到也有點嘩然是說我們要在故宮的大門口設定玻璃亭那當然羅浮宮、大英博物館也有現代化新舊融合的設計我們也看到了但是很多人講是說以依照文資法故宮不是應該早辦說明會、公聽會並且把相關的資料通知居民來參與"},{"start":470.902,"end":480.314,"text":"但故宮怎麼一開始在網路公告只有圖片沒有說明後來要求才揭露部分的簡報檔那我們想請教到底是在搞神秘還是說現在"},{"start":481.795,"end":502.149,"text":"你要大開大立大破大合針對百年故宮來做相關的一個淨土設計那不是更應該現在就說服跟讓大家知道讓大家來參與嗎跟委員報告就是工程的花包跟設計概念然後審查跟進入到實際設計細部設計他是一個流程"},{"start":506.272,"end":506.873,"text":"現在到哪一個進度?"},{"start":525.609,"end":529.453,"text":"那第二次的修正計畫什麼時候會進行?"},{"start":546.72,"end":567.698,"text":"這個基本上來講的話就要變成是他們調整的因為原來的話再怎麼規劃的話也都是……沒有 院長我們現在溝通一個觀念啦我是說因為今天出來大家媒體滑爛是說為什麼會在大門口的部分其實對故宮來講這個百年設計你還在做這個玻璃罩然後你變成是放任廠商去做設計計畫這樣也有點奇怪啊"},{"start":569.72,"end":598.479,"text":"這是之前22年招標的時候有四個廠商四個廠商裡面有一個廠商設計一個玻璃入口院長我建議不要補充紙他竊評重嫌院長這樣子感覺是對本席跟立院不尊重對不起我知道我知道你不是有心的對但是不要讓媒體拍到這畫面不好對不起鄭重道歉就說四家我比一二三四四家裡面有一家竊評重嫌我現在連比都不敢比"},{"start":599.36,"end":599.38,"text":"委員長"},{"start":622.961,"end":647.957,"text":"本席今天質疑的地方在哪裡在於是說3月的時候媒體報導出來說華蘭大家會覺得是說怎麼會突然間這樣的一個方向那還有更重要的是我退一萬步講阿會不會之後人走茶樑如果說假設520真的先開名單不是你那會不會之後下一個院長來又有下一個院長的想法完全又變更設計"},{"start":649.69,"end":661.419,"text":"那到最後國人就不知道說我的百年故宮到底你的形狀要長什麼樣那最合理的方式不是應該是先匯集大家的意見至少有一個一致的方向我們再來做"},{"start":664.16,"end":691.021,"text":"我想這個部分的話剛委員指教的是就是說我們已經把所有的名譽跟媒體報導給那個設計團隊設計團隊什麼時候會再第二次出來設計團隊要送出去之前在送到文資審議之前的話我們會再召開說明會甚至邀請建築界的專家寫者然後來共同參與然後就是說這個時程是什麼時候送出去的時候"},{"start":692.642,"end":718.793,"text":"你還會再召開說明會還會再召集專家學者那這個時辰會在什麼時候下一任院長所以你是準備要走人了是不是沒有啦沒有啦基本上來講以現在的時辰安排的話就差不多也要到五月之後五月嘛五月就是這個月所以這個月月底前會再召開說明會五月之後啊對啊五月之後就是大概六月份我們來召開"},{"start":720.356,"end":741.531,"text":"院長我們輕鬆歸輕鬆但是不能把方便當隨便我知道我現在在問的是時程就是說你剛剛已經講了我們會在第二次的設計變更之前再開說明會以及找專家學者那這個時程會預定在什麼時候工程是我們那個洪副院長是對你講出來的事情媒體會關注媒體關注會報導有興趣的民眾說明會大家就會去參與"},{"start":746.338,"end":771.809,"text":"你現在要的是說明會大家來參與而不是說你今天偷偷摸摸辦了說明會大家不知道然後之後出來之後大家在划籃你再講說有啊五月辦過說明會不是這樣嘛對我不是要過場我要的是院長告訴我們既然三月出來大家有划籃那現在你也講了我們會從善如流再召開說明會那說明會什麼時候我們就告訴大家我們譬如六月會有說明會"},{"start":772.509,"end":793.528,"text":"有興趣的媒體拜託大家來說明會了解一下來跟委員報告一下那我們資料已經在4月底送文字會了那接下來我們會在6月6月6月則一天開說明會是不是"},{"start":796.03,"end":802.231,"text":"請問我再質詢你你剛講說有說明會現在又說沒有了所以根本沒有說明會是不是六月會辦"},{"start":819.995,"end":845.222,"text":"6月會辦跟同仁協調了6月我們會辦一個說明會邀請建築界的專業人員來6月會辦針對故宮大門口的這個工程的說明會那也請時間地點確認之後也發函給本席以及我們教育文化委員會的委員並且廣為周知希望能夠邀請大家有興趣關心的民眾可以共同參與這樣可以嗎可以"},{"start":848.348,"end":877.174,"text":"最後不好意思主席30秒518這次翠玉白菜是因為518博物館節那我們南院有辦活動那北院呢北院的國際博物館日也有辦活動但我剛剛上來之前查我們官網並沒有看到任何一個518的活動那還有明年是故宮百年百歲的願慶我們現在策劃特殊的展覽有沒有"},{"start":878.415,"end":878.435,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}}}}