{"id":152335,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152335","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9fa9bc2102b9cf71b934af9bcc836fb7827cef00f012e52e36499d1b681a2ac70d1fb675c659de675ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"11:08:37 - 11:16:27","影片長度":"00:07:50","會議時間":"2024-05-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例」修正草案等37案，詳見議事日程。\n【5月8日及9日兩天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-08","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-17"},"duration":470,"end_time":"2024-05-08T11:16:27+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-08T11:08:37+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":420,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（11時8分）謝謝主席，有請次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：次長早安，今天花一點點時間來討論民意代表的費用，其實大家主張的東西很多、很不一樣，待會還有逐條討論，所以沒有關係。本席的主張是這樣：福利從優，審查從速。既然要談，因為民意代表尤其是議員助理費的部分其實已經二十幾年沒有動了，中間公教人員都加薪蠻多了，所以遲早要面對這個問題，但我是認為面對這個問題，要做就要一步到位來顧好品質，我的主張是這樣。所以針對院版的部分，我們來做一下討論。我想先請教次長，為什麼我們要有公費助理的機制？"],["吳次長容輝：我這裡特別跟委員報告一下，其實助理的補助費不是公費，所以這次我們把公費拿掉。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以你認為不應該有公費助理的機制嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：因為現在的助理跟議員的關係是雇主跟勞工。"],["牛委員煦庭：當初為什麼有公費助理？當初為什麼界定叫公費助理？為什麼？"],["吳次長容輝：這一部分我倒不是很瞭解，是不是我們司長來來跟您說明？"],["牛委員煦庭：快，時間有限。為什麼要公費？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：當初是因為預算，所以有編列預算來補助。"],["牛委員煦庭：為什麼政府要補助議員去請助理？為什麼？你瞭解這個政策的核心目標跟概念是什麼……"],["鄭代理司長英弘：就是助理可以協助議員來問政，因為議會有編列預算，所以當初用「公費」兩個字。"],["牛委員煦庭：為什麼要公費？是因為公平性。為什麼要公平性？因為今天我們大家都是投票選出來的民意代表，可是有人家底很雄厚，有人家底很單薄，如果把助理這件事情單純定義為這就是民意代表私人的民事僱傭關係，那麼家底雄厚的民意代表可以有二、三十個或三、四十個助理，沒有問題，因為他出得起。可是相對來講，素人出身、相對年輕的，他可能沒有這麼多條件的時候，他的助理就變少了，形成不公平競爭，也形成服務品質的差別。這就是問題，所以國家當初設定公費助理制度的初衷應該是這件事吧！我這樣講有問題嗎？還是你們反對這樣的說法？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：初衷是讓助理協助議員來問政……"],["牛委員煦庭：對嘛！"],["鄭代理司長英弘：可能有些議員的這個部分需要做一些補助，所以這個補助是一個混合補助……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以你要有一個基本款，是大家都公平的情況。"],["鄭代理司長英弘：是一個混合補助的概念。"],["牛委員煦庭：確保基礎的問政品質，對不對？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：如果議員有需要聘更多的助理，需要更多經費的話，可能就需要議員自己……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以你今天把公費拿掉其實是很危險的事情，這是我要跟你講的第一件事。","第二件事情，為什麼大家講要檢討，然後大家去談議員助理也要隨著時代改變，他的勞工待遇也要與時俱進，所以不只是薪水的補助，他也要有加班費、有資遣費、有職災補償等等相關的一些措施。當然行政院現在也調，以前大家從來不去談議員的助理能不能有加班費，現在講有加班費。但因為我很好奇，你們院版當初算出來，我以直轄市議員為例，30萬元的公費助理費用，對不對？其中有20%之內是算做加班費跟各種補助，你們當初是怎麼算這個標準的？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：目前各個議會都有編列預算來補助助理的勞退跟健保等等費用。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，勞保、勞退、健保，對不對？雇主負擔的部分是有的。"],["鄭代理司長英弘：對，目前就有一些基本的費用。目前我們如果設算之後，大概直轄市跟縣市的部分都會增加2萬左右，就是直轄市原來編列的經費是4萬，提升到6萬；縣市的部分1.2萬，提升到2.8萬，大概我們都已經設算過了。"],["牛委員煦庭：設算過了，你確定嗎？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：你覺得在院版，假設以院版為基礎通過之後，一個直轄市議員或者是縣市議員，他一個月可以多編出多少的加班費給他滿編的助理？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：直轄市的部分可以4萬提升到6萬，大概每一年如果直轄市提升到6萬的話，議會要增加9,048萬；縣市的部分，由1.2萬提高到2.8萬，會增加1億233萬。"],["牛委員煦庭：次長，你對這個都沒有研究，這不是你的守備範圍還是怎麼樣？"],["吳次長容輝：不是，我特別要跟委員報告，加班部分，我們現在用助理費額度的2%來提列，以前是勞健保、勞退，現在我們增加了資遣費跟加班費這部分。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，這是我今天要跟你討論的事情，你看一下表格，按照30萬的基準來算，我們用簡單的算法，就是平均，我請7個助理，一個是認真服務，不管是跑紅白帖到寫法案、協助問政的助理，我給他四萬兩千塊，不為過吧！合理，對不對？我如果7個，你30萬的額度，我差不多請7個人，對不對？7個人裡面，四萬兩千多塊，勞保、勞退加健保，每一個助理就八千四百多塊，7個助理加起來多少錢？5萬9,115元啊！你剛剛講，按照你院版的版本，這個實際上法定預算編列的20%以內，也就是你只有6萬塊的經費，你光是付勞保、勞退、健保，付完之後，五萬九千一百多塊就不見了，請問這是哪門子有加班費啊？平均一個議員一個月只有885塊的加班費可以給自己的助理，那有修跟沒修，請問有什麼不一樣？"],["吳次長容輝：跟委員報告，原本直轄市大概是4萬，就補貼他的勞健保、勞退……"],["牛委員煦庭：現行的狀況，24萬加4萬，大概也就是勞健保用完嘛！你把它提升到30萬，結果你這個只編6萬，而且不是外加的方式，到最後還是沒有加班費啊！那不是修來修去都一樣嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：本來4萬，現在外加2萬。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，你外加2萬，總額提升到了30萬，所以不管是用什麼樣的排列組合算，你都不會有額外的加班費出現啊！因為光是付勞保、勞退加健保，就已經把這一筆6萬塊錢全部用完了，你們有沒有算到這件事？"],["吳次長容輝：我們現在還有一個東西，這跟助理人數的下限是有關係的。"],["牛委員煦庭：當然，可是問題就是，你即便改變算法，我剛剛也試過了，比如兩個主任加上一般比較基層的，算起來還是不會有加班費。","再看縣市議員的部分也是一樣，縣市議員按照院版變成14萬，也許是3個人、4個人或5個人，不管你怎麼樣搞排列組合都一樣，你所謂加班費的20%用在勞保、勞退、健保，用完就沒有了！可以調度加班費的額度剩下幾百塊，有跟沒有，不一樣。所以今天要修，我肯定你，但是我講，除了審查從速之外，我們也主張福利從優。今天有這麼多條文要討論，我們先講這一件事情，如果我們的加班費按照你現行的法條，等於是沒有！不要朝三暮四，大家都是搞政治的人，助理是很辛苦的，要做當然是要用外加的方式來處理，好不好？內政部在做這個事我們都肯定，我覺得這件事情不要在那邊藍的講綠的綁樁、綠的講藍的綁樁，那沒意思啦！我們講的是提升基層的服務品質跟勞動待遇，對不對？但既然要做就把它做好。"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：我希望待會的討論可以往這些方向來對焦，福利從優，審查從速。"],["吳次長容輝：好，委員，我想這一部分我們都有考量在內，這個等一下在討論的時候也可以跟委員再報告。"],["牛委員煦庭：對啊！你這個考量在內，到最後只有一千塊不到的加班費編下去，大家會覺得好像期待很高，最後發現好像都不是這樣。所以該調的額度要調整、該修的法條要做修正，我們要從優處理，好不好？"],["吳次長容輝：是，好，謝謝委員。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，謝謝，辛苦了。"],["主席：謝謝牛煦庭委員的質詢。","下一位黃捷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-17","speakers":["吳琪銘","楊瓊瓔","徐欣瑩","王美惠","盧縣一","黃捷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","高金素梅","許宇甄","李柏毅","呂玉玲","王育敏","李彥秀","徐巧芯","蔡易餘","劉建國","黃建賓","鄭正鈐","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","張宏陸","牛煦庭","張智倫","丁學忠","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鍾佳濱","羅智強","黃珊珊","邱鎮軍","邱志偉","張嘉郡","黃仁","范雲","吳思瑤"],"page_start":69,"meetingDate":["2024-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1134201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條\n文修正草案」案；二、審查委員黃捷等22人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補\n助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村\n里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19人擬具\n「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例部分條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員羅\n智強等 25 人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」\n案；六、審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六\n條條文修正草案」案；七、審查委員呂玉玲等19人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補\n助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；八、審查委員吳思瑤等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支\n給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；九、審查委員陳超明等18人擬具「地\n方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例增訂第七條之一條文草案」案；十、審查委員\n李柏毅等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」\n案；十一、審查委員黃健豪等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例增\n訂第七條之一條文草案」案；十二、審查委員徐巧芯等28人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里\n長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；十三、審查委員莊瑞雄等18人擬具「地方民意\n代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；十四、審查委員高金素梅\n等29人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第七條條文修正草案」案；十\n五、審查委員林思銘等26人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條\n文修正草案」案；十六、審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助\n費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；十七、審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具「地方民意代表費用支\n給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條、第七條及第九條條文修正草案」案；十八、審查委員蔡\n易餘等 19 人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」\n案；十九、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六\n條條文修正草案」案；二十、審查委員許宇甄等16人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務\n補助費補助條例第七條條文修正草案」案；二十一、審查委員黃秀芳等19人擬具「地方民意代表\n費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十二、審查委員鍾佳濱等27\n人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十\n三、審查委員陳瑩等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第五條、第\n六條及第七條條文修正草案」案；二十四、審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等 17 人擬具\n「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十五、審查\n委員陳素月等21人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草\n案」案；二十六、審查委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助\n條例第三條及第六條條文修正草案」案；二十七、審查委員洪申翰等16人擬具「地方民意代表費\n用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十八、審查委員李彥秀等20人\n擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十九、\n審查委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第七條條文修\n正草案」案；三十、審查委員黃建賓等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補\n助條例第六條及第七條條文修正草案」案；三十一、審查委員劉建國等16人擬具「地方民意代表\n費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；三十二、審查委員高金素梅等\n22人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第八條條文修正草案」案；三十\n三、審查委員鄭正鈐等18人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條\n文修正草案」案；三十四、審查委員陳素月等22人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補\n助費補助條例第五條附表修正草案」案；三十五、審查委員陳培瑜等21人擬具「地方民意代表費\n用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；三十六、審查委員王美惠等21人\n擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第七條條文修正草案」案；三十七、\n審查委員王育敏等16人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修\n正草案」案","agenda_id":"1134201_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152335","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152335","tool":"pyannote","id":"152335-pyannote"},"job_id":"Nm8TCugi1Z68x9gN","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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\"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 110.092, \"end\": 110.252, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 110.252, \"end\": 110.352, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 110.352, \"end\": 110.432, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"薄\", \"start\": 110.432, \"end\": 110.452, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 111.601, \"end\": 137.698, \"text\": \"如果說把助理這件事情單純定義為這就是民意代表的私人的民事雇用關係那麼家底雄厚的民意代表哇我可以二三十個三四十個助理沒有問題因為他出得起可是相對來講素人出生的相對年輕的他可能沒有這麼多條件的時候我的助理就變少了形成不公平的競爭也形成服務品質的差別這就是問題所以國家當初設定公費助理的制度的初衷應該是這件事吧\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 111.601, \"end\": 111.721, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 111.721, \"end\": 111.981, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 111.981, \"end\": 112.161, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 112.161, \"end\": 112.321, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 112.321, \"end\": 112.582, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 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\"text\": \"其實目前各個議會都有編列預算給議員補助助理的勞退跟健保的費用目前就有一些基本的一個費用\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 207.644, \"end\": 208.045, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 208.045, \"end\": 208.365, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 208.365, \"end\": 209.206, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 209.206, \"end\": 209.906, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 209.906, \"end\": 210.066, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 210.066, \"end\": 210.487, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 210.487, \"end\": 210.887, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 210.887, \"end\": 214.47, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 214.47, \"end\": 214.73, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 214.73, \"end\": 214.97, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 219.174, \"end\": 219.314, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 219.314, \"end\": 219.494, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 219.494, \"end\": 219.514, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 219.514, \"end\": 219.594, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 219.594, \"end\": 219.614, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 219.614, \"end\": 219.634, \"score\": 0.941}]}, {\"start\": 225.379, \"end\": 246.624, \"text\": \"那目前我們如果涉算之後大概直轄市跟縣市的部分都會增加2萬左右就是說直轄市的原來邊內的經費是4萬提升到這個6萬那這個縣市的部分1.2萬提升到2.8萬大概我們都已經涉算過了涉算過你確定嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 225.379, \"end\": 226.639, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 226.639, \"end\": 226.939, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 226.939, \"end\": 227.239, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 227.239, \"end\": 227.68, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", 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\"end\": 467.429, \"score\": 0.995}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,070 --> 00:00:14,034\n市長,早安。今天花一點點時間來討論民意代表的這個費用,因為今天其實大家主張的東西很不一樣,很多,大概還有主條討論時間沒有關係,但本期的主張是這樣,福利從優,審查從速,既然要談,\n\n2\n00:00:31,630 --> 00:00:52,300\n因為這個民意代表尤其是議員助理費的部分其實20幾年沒有動那中間其實公教人員都加薪加滿多的對不對所以說遲早要面對這樣的問題但我是認為啦面對這個問題要做就一步到位來顧好品質我們主張是這樣所以針對院版的部分我們來做一下討論我想先請教次長為什麼我們要有公費助理的機制\n\n3\n00:00:54,274 --> 00:01:14,871\n我這裡特別跟委員報告一下其實我們是對這個助理的這個補助費不是公費所以這一次我們也把公費拿掉所以你認為不應該有公費助理的機制嗎?因為現在的助理跟議員的關係是僱主跟老公嘛當初為什麼有公費助理?當初為什麼界定叫公費助理?為什麼?\n\n4\n00:01:16,223 --> 00:01:17,103\n為什麼政府要補助議員去請助理為什麼\n\n5\n00:01:31,704 --> 00:01:50,452\n你會瞭解這政策的核心目標跟概念是什麼?為什麼要公費是因為公平公平性為什麼要公平性呢?因為我們今天大家都是投票選出來的民意代表可是我們有人家底很雄厚有人家底很單薄\n\n6\n00:01:51,601 --> 00:02:17,698\n如果說把助理這件事情單純定義為這就是民意代表的私人的民事雇用關係那麼家底雄厚的民意代表哇我可以二三十個三四十個助理沒有問題因為他出得起可是相對來講素人出生的相對年輕的他可能沒有這麼多條件的時候我的助理就變少了形成不公平的競爭也形成服務品質的差別這就是問題所以國家當初設定公費助理的制度的初衷應該是這件事吧\n\n7\n00:02:19,467 --> 00:02:42,633\n我這樣講有問題嗎還是你們反對這樣的說法?初衷是讓助理來協助議員來做問證那可能有一些議員的這個部分需要做一些補助所以這個補助是一個所以你要有一個基本款是大家都公平的情況嘛去確保基礎的問證品質對不對如果議員有需要拼更多的助理需要更多的經費的話可能就需要議員\n\n8\n00:02:43,693 --> 00:03:02,714\n所以你今天把公費拿掉其實是很危險的事情這是我要跟你講的第一件事第二件事為什麼大家講要檢討然後大家去談說議員助理也要隨著時代的改變他的勞工的待遇也要與時的拒進所以說不只是薪水的補助他也要有加班費有資錢費有職災補償以及等等相關的一些措施\n\n9\n00:03:03,234 --> 00:03:24,276\n那行政院當然現在也調以前大家從來不去談議員的助理能不能有加班費現在講說有加班費但是你知道我很好奇啦你們院板當初算出比如說我以直轄市議員為例啦30萬元的公費助理的費用對不對然後其中有百分之百分之多少百分之二十之內對不對是算作加班費跟各種補助喔你們當初是怎麼算這個標準的\n\n10\n00:03:27,644 --> 00:03:39,634\n其實目前各個議會都有編列預算給議員補助助理的勞退跟健保的費用目前就有一些基本的一個費用\n\n11\n00:03:45,379 --> 00:04:06,624\n那目前我們如果涉算之後大概直轄市跟縣市的部分都會增加2萬左右就是說直轄市的原來邊內的經費是4萬提升到這個6萬那這個縣市的部分1.2萬提升到2.8萬大概我們都已經涉算過了涉算過你確定嗎\n\n12\n00:04:08,325 --> 00:04:23,442\n你覺得在院板假設院板為基礎通過的時候一個議員一個直轄市議員或者是縣市議員他一個月可以多編出多少的加班費給他滿編的助理直轄市的部分可以4萬提升到6萬\n\n13\n00:04:26,581 --> 00:04:29,884\n市長你對這個都沒有研究這不是你的所備範圍還怎麼樣?報告委員我特別要跟委員報告\n\n14\n00:04:48,516 --> 00:05:10,934\n加班我們現在用助理會額度的百分之二來提累那以前是勞健保勞退現在我們增加了資遣會跟加班會這一部分所以我今天要跟你討論的事情你看一下表格按照30萬的基準來算我們用簡單的算法就平均也就是說我請七個助理一個認真服務不管是跑紅白鐵然後到協法案協助問證的一個助理我給他四萬兩千塊不為過吧\n\n15\n00:05:12,395 --> 00:05:34,494\n合理對不對我如果7個人你30萬額度他會請7個人對不對7個人裡面42000多塊勞保勞退加健保每一個助理就8400多塊7個助理加起來多少錢59115啊你剛剛講按照你院版的版本這個實際上法定預算編列的20%以內也就你只有6萬塊的經費你光是付勞保勞退健保付完59100多塊不見了\n\n16\n00:05:37,336 --> 00:06:00,086\n請問這哪門子有加班費啊?平均一個議員一個月只有885塊的加班費可以給自己的助理那有休跟沒休請問有什麼不一樣?我們原本跟委員報告原本的這個之下是大概4萬嘛就補貼他勞健保現形的狀況24萬加4萬大概就是勞健保用完嘛你把它提升到30萬結果你這個只變6萬而且不是外加的方式到處還是沒有加班費啊\n\n17\n00:06:01,046 --> 00:06:18,304\n那不是問那不能秀啊秀就一樣嗎?可能還4萬現在外加2萬嘛對你外加2萬可是你的總額提升到了30萬嘛所以你按照這不管是用什麼樣的排列組合算你都不會有額外的加班費出現啊因為光是付勞保勞退加健保就已經把這一筆6萬塊錢全部用完了捏你們有沒有算到這件事?\n\n18\n00:06:19,298 --> 00:06:47,319\n我們現在還有一個東西就是這個可以跟助理的人數的下限這是有關係的當然嘛可是問題就是你即便改變算法我剛剛也試過啦比如說兩個主任加上一般的比較基層算起來還是不會有加班費嘛來再看縣市議員的部分也是一樣啦縣市議員按照院版變成14萬也許是3個人4個人或5個人不管你怎麼樣搞排列組合一樣你所謂的加班費的20%用在勞保勞退健保用完就沒有了嘛\n\n19\n00:06:48,246 --> 00:07:11,661\n剩下可以調度加班費的額度剩下幾百塊有跟沒有不一樣所以我講你今天要修我肯定你但是我講除了審查重塑之外我們也主張福利重優今天有這麼多條文要討論我們先講這一件事情如果我們的加班費按照你現行的法條等於是沒有不要朝三暮四大家都是搞政治的人助理是很辛苦的要做當然是要用外加的方式來處理\n\n20\n00:07:13,222 --> 00:07:29,152\n我希望內政部在做這個事我們都肯定我覺得這件事情不要在那邊藍的講綠的綁裝綠的講藍的綁裝那不藝術啦我們講的是提升基層的服務品質跟勞動待遇嘛對不對但既然要做就把它做好來我希望待會的討論可以往這些方向來對焦福利從優審查總數\n\n21\n00:07:32,374 --> 00:07:47,429\n對阿你這個考量在內到最後只有一兩一千塊不到的加班費編下去大家會覺得好像期待很高阿最後發現好像都不是這樣所以該條的額度要調整該修的法條要做修正我們要從優處理好不好好謝謝委員好謝謝辛苦了\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9070\t14034\t市長,早安。今天花一點點時間來討論民意代表的這個費用,因為今天其實大家主張的東西很不一樣,很多,大概還有主條討論時間沒有關係,但本期的主張是這樣,福利從優,審查從速,既然要談,\n31630\t52300\t因為這個民意代表尤其是議員助理費的部分其實20幾年沒有動那中間其實公教人員都加薪加滿多的對不對所以說遲早要面對這樣的問題但我是認為啦面對這個問題要做就一步到位來顧好品質我們主張是這樣所以針對院版的部分我們來做一下討論我想先請教次長為什麼我們要有公費助理的機制\n54274\t74871\t我這裡特別跟委員報告一下其實我們是對這個助理的這個補助費不是公費所以這一次我們也把公費拿掉所以你認為不應該有公費助理的機制嗎?因為現在的助理跟議員的關係是僱主跟老公嘛當初為什麼有公費助理?當初為什麼界定叫公費助理?為什麼?\n76223\t77103\t為什麼政府要補助議員去請助理為什麼\n91704\t110452\t你會瞭解這政策的核心目標跟概念是什麼?為什麼要公費是因為公平公平性為什麼要公平性呢?因為我們今天大家都是投票選出來的民意代表可是我們有人家底很雄厚有人家底很單薄\n111601\t137698\t如果說把助理這件事情單純定義為這就是民意代表的私人的民事雇用關係那麼家底雄厚的民意代表哇我可以二三十個三四十個助理沒有問題因為他出得起可是相對來講素人出生的相對年輕的他可能沒有這麼多條件的時候我的助理就變少了形成不公平的競爭也形成服務品質的差別這就是問題所以國家當初設定公費助理的制度的初衷應該是這件事吧\n139467\t162633\t我這樣講有問題嗎還是你們反對這樣的說法?初衷是讓助理來協助議員來做問證那可能有一些議員的這個部分需要做一些補助所以這個補助是一個所以你要有一個基本款是大家都公平的情況嘛去確保基礎的問證品質對不對如果議員有需要拼更多的助理需要更多的經費的話可能就需要議員\n163693\t182714\t所以你今天把公費拿掉其實是很危險的事情這是我要跟你講的第一件事第二件事為什麼大家講要檢討然後大家去談說議員助理也要隨著時代的改變他的勞工的待遇也要與時的拒進所以說不只是薪水的補助他也要有加班費有資錢費有職災補償以及等等相關的一些措施\n183234\t204276\t那行政院當然現在也調以前大家從來不去談議員的助理能不能有加班費現在講說有加班費但是你知道我很好奇啦你們院板當初算出比如說我以直轄市議員為例啦30萬元的公費助理的費用對不對然後其中有百分之百分之多少百分之二十之內對不對是算作加班費跟各種補助喔你們當初是怎麼算這個標準的\n207644\t219634\t其實目前各個議會都有編列預算給議員補助助理的勞退跟健保的費用目前就有一些基本的一個費用\n225379\t246624\t那目前我們如果涉算之後大概直轄市跟縣市的部分都會增加2萬左右就是說直轄市的原來邊內的經費是4萬提升到這個6萬那這個縣市的部分1.2萬提升到2.8萬大概我們都已經涉算過了涉算過你確定嗎\n248325\t263442\t你覺得在院板假設院板為基礎通過的時候一個議員一個直轄市議員或者是縣市議員他一個月可以多編出多少的加班費給他滿編的助理直轄市的部分可以4萬提升到6萬\n266581\t269884\t市長你對這個都沒有研究這不是你的所備範圍還怎麼樣?報告委員我特別要跟委員報告\n288516\t310934\t加班我們現在用助理會額度的百分之二來提累那以前是勞健保勞退現在我們增加了資遣會跟加班會這一部分所以我今天要跟你討論的事情你看一下表格按照30萬的基準來算我們用簡單的算法就平均也就是說我請七個助理一個認真服務不管是跑紅白鐵然後到協法案協助問證的一個助理我給他四萬兩千塊不為過吧\n312395\t334494\t合理對不對我如果7個人你30萬額度他會請7個人對不對7個人裡面42000多塊勞保勞退加健保每一個助理就8400多塊7個助理加起來多少錢59115啊你剛剛講按照你院版的版本這個實際上法定預算編列的20%以內也就你只有6萬塊的經費你光是付勞保勞退健保付完59100多塊不見了\n337336\t360086\t請問這哪門子有加班費啊?平均一個議員一個月只有885塊的加班費可以給自己的助理那有休跟沒休請問有什麼不一樣?我們原本跟委員報告原本的這個之下是大概4萬嘛就補貼他勞健保現形的狀況24萬加4萬大概就是勞健保用完嘛你把它提升到30萬結果你這個只變6萬而且不是外加的方式到處還是沒有加班費啊\n361046\t378304\t那不是問那不能秀啊秀就一樣嗎?可能還4萬現在外加2萬嘛對你外加2萬可是你的總額提升到了30萬嘛所以你按照這不管是用什麼樣的排列組合算你都不會有額外的加班費出現啊因為光是付勞保勞退加健保就已經把這一筆6萬塊錢全部用完了捏你們有沒有算到這件事?\n379298\t407319\t我們現在還有一個東西就是這個可以跟助理的人數的下限這是有關係的當然嘛可是問題就是你即便改變算法我剛剛也試過啦比如說兩個主任加上一般的比較基層算起來還是不會有加班費嘛來再看縣市議員的部分也是一樣啦縣市議員按照院版變成14萬也許是3個人4個人或5個人不管你怎麼樣搞排列組合一樣你所謂的加班費的20%用在勞保勞退健保用完就沒有了嘛\n408246\t431661\t剩下可以調度加班費的額度剩下幾百塊有跟沒有不一樣所以我講你今天要修我肯定你但是我講除了審查重塑之外我們也主張福利重優今天有這麼多條文要討論我們先講這一件事情如果我們的加班費按照你現行的法條等於是沒有不要朝三暮四大家都是搞政治的人助理是很辛苦的要做當然是要用外加的方式來處理\n433222\t449152\t我希望內政部在做這個事 我們都肯定我覺得這件事情不要在那邊藍的講綠的綁裝 綠的講藍的綁裝 那不藝術啦我們講的是提升基層的服務品質跟勞動待遇嘛 對不對但既然要做就把它做好來我希望待會的討論可以往這些方向來對焦福利從優 審查總數\n452374\t467429\t對阿你這個考量在內到最後只有一兩一千塊不到的加班費編下去大家會覺得好像期待很高阿最後發現好像都不是這樣所以該條的額度要調整該修的法條要做修正我們要從優處理好不好好謝謝委員好謝謝辛苦了\n","txt":"市長,早安。今天花一點點時間來討論民意代表的這個費用,因為今天其實大家主張的東西很不一樣,很多,大概還有主條討論時間沒有關係,但本期的主張是這樣,福利從優,審查從速,既然要談,\n因為這個民意代表尤其是議員助理費的部分其實20幾年沒有動那中間其實公教人員都加薪加滿多的對不對所以說遲早要面對這樣的問題但我是認為啦面對這個問題要做就一步到位來顧好品質我們主張是這樣所以針對院版的部分我們來做一下討論我想先請教次長為什麼我們要有公費助理的機制\n我這裡特別跟委員報告一下其實我們是對這個助理的這個補助費不是公費所以這一次我們也把公費拿掉所以你認為不應該有公費助理的機制嗎?因為現在的助理跟議員的關係是僱主跟老公嘛當初為什麼有公費助理?當初為什麼界定叫公費助理?為什麼?\n為什麼政府要補助議員去請助理為什麼\n你會瞭解這政策的核心目標跟概念是什麼?為什麼要公費是因為公平公平性為什麼要公平性呢?因為我們今天大家都是投票選出來的民意代表可是我們有人家底很雄厚有人家底很單薄\n如果說把助理這件事情單純定義為這就是民意代表的私人的民事雇用關係那麼家底雄厚的民意代表哇我可以二三十個三四十個助理沒有問題因為他出得起可是相對來講素人出生的相對年輕的他可能沒有這麼多條件的時候我的助理就變少了形成不公平的競爭也形成服務品質的差別這就是問題所以國家當初設定公費助理的制度的初衷應該是這件事吧\n我這樣講有問題嗎還是你們反對這樣的說法?初衷是讓助理來協助議員來做問證那可能有一些議員的這個部分需要做一些補助所以這個補助是一個所以你要有一個基本款是大家都公平的情況嘛去確保基礎的問證品質對不對如果議員有需要拼更多的助理需要更多的經費的話可能就需要議員\n所以你今天把公費拿掉其實是很危險的事情這是我要跟你講的第一件事第二件事為什麼大家講要檢討然後大家去談說議員助理也要隨著時代的改變他的勞工的待遇也要與時的拒進所以說不只是薪水的補助他也要有加班費有資錢費有職災補償以及等等相關的一些措施\n那行政院當然現在也調以前大家從來不去談議員的助理能不能有加班費現在講說有加班費但是你知道我很好奇啦你們院板當初算出比如說我以直轄市議員為例啦30萬元的公費助理的費用對不對然後其中有百分之百分之多少百分之二十之內對不對是算作加班費跟各種補助喔你們當初是怎麼算這個標準的\n其實目前各個議會都有編列預算給議員補助助理的勞退跟健保的費用目前就有一些基本的一個費用\n那目前我們如果涉算之後大概直轄市跟縣市的部分都會增加2萬左右就是說直轄市的原來邊內的經費是4萬提升到這個6萬那這個縣市的部分1.2萬提升到2.8萬大概我們都已經涉算過了涉算過你確定嗎\n你覺得在院板假設院板為基礎通過的時候一個議員一個直轄市議員或者是縣市議員他一個月可以多編出多少的加班費給他滿編的助理直轄市的部分可以4萬提升到6萬\n市長你對這個都沒有研究這不是你的所備範圍還怎麼樣?報告委員我特別要跟委員報告\n加班我們現在用助理會額度的百分之二來提累那以前是勞健保勞退現在我們增加了資遣會跟加班會這一部分所以我今天要跟你討論的事情你看一下表格按照30萬的基準來算我們用簡單的算法就平均也就是說我請七個助理一個認真服務不管是跑紅白鐵然後到協法案協助問證的一個助理我給他四萬兩千塊不為過吧\n合理對不對我如果7個人你30萬額度他會請7個人對不對7個人裡面42000多塊勞保勞退加健保每一個助理就8400多塊7個助理加起來多少錢59115啊你剛剛講按照你院版的版本這個實際上法定預算編列的20%以內也就你只有6萬塊的經費你光是付勞保勞退健保付完59100多塊不見了\n請問這哪門子有加班費啊?平均一個議員一個月只有885塊的加班費可以給自己的助理那有休跟沒休請問有什麼不一樣?我們原本跟委員報告原本的這個之下是大概4萬嘛就補貼他勞健保現形的狀況24萬加4萬大概就是勞健保用完嘛你把它提升到30萬結果你這個只變6萬而且不是外加的方式到處還是沒有加班費啊\n那不是問那不能秀啊秀就一樣嗎?可能還4萬現在外加2萬嘛對你外加2萬可是你的總額提升到了30萬嘛所以你按照這不管是用什麼樣的排列組合算你都不會有額外的加班費出現啊因為光是付勞保勞退加健保就已經把這一筆6萬塊錢全部用完了捏你們有沒有算到這件事?\n我們現在還有一個東西就是這個可以跟助理的人數的下限這是有關係的當然嘛可是問題就是你即便改變算法我剛剛也試過啦比如說兩個主任加上一般的比較基層算起來還是不會有加班費嘛來再看縣市議員的部分也是一樣啦縣市議員按照院版變成14萬也許是3個人4個人或5個人不管你怎麼樣搞排列組合一樣你所謂的加班費的20%用在勞保勞退健保用完就沒有了嘛\n剩下可以調度加班費的額度剩下幾百塊有跟沒有不一樣所以我講你今天要修我肯定你但是我講除了審查重塑之外我們也主張福利重優今天有這麼多條文要討論我們先講這一件事情如果我們的加班費按照你現行的法條等於是沒有不要朝三暮四大家都是搞政治的人助理是很辛苦的要做當然是要用外加的方式來處理\n我希望內政部在做這個事 我們都肯定我覺得這件事情不要在那邊藍的講綠的綁裝 綠的講藍的綁裝 那不藝術啦我們講的是提升基層的服務品質跟勞動待遇嘛 對不對但既然要做就把它做好來我希望待會的討論可以往這些方向來對焦福利從優 審查總數\n對阿你這個考量在內到最後只有一兩一千塊不到的加班費編下去大家會覺得好像期待很高阿最後發現好像都不是這樣所以該條的額度要調整該修的法條要做修正我們要從優處理好不好好謝謝委員好謝謝辛苦了\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.070 --> 00:14.034\n市長,早安。今天花一點點時間來討論民意代表的這個費用,因為今天其實大家主張的東西很不一樣,很多,大概還有主條討論時間沒有關係,但本期的主張是這樣,福利從優,審查從速,既然要談,\n\n00:31.630 --> 00:52.300\n因為這個民意代表尤其是議員助理費的部分其實20幾年沒有動那中間其實公教人員都加薪加滿多的對不對所以說遲早要面對這樣的問題但我是認為啦面對這個問題要做就一步到位來顧好品質我們主張是這樣所以針對院版的部分我們來做一下討論我想先請教次長為什麼我們要有公費助理的機制\n\n00:54.274 --> 01:14.871\n我這裡特別跟委員報告一下其實我們是對這個助理的這個補助費不是公費所以這一次我們也把公費拿掉所以你認為不應該有公費助理的機制嗎?因為現在的助理跟議員的關係是僱主跟老公嘛當初為什麼有公費助理?當初為什麼界定叫公費助理?為什麼?\n\n01:16.223 --> 01:17.103\n為什麼政府要補助議員去請助理為什麼\n\n01:31.704 --> 01:50.452\n你會瞭解這政策的核心目標跟概念是什麼?為什麼要公費是因為公平公平性為什麼要公平性呢?因為我們今天大家都是投票選出來的民意代表可是我們有人家底很雄厚有人家底很單薄\n\n01:51.601 --> 02:17.698\n如果說把助理這件事情單純定義為這就是民意代表的私人的民事雇用關係那麼家底雄厚的民意代表哇我可以二三十個三四十個助理沒有問題因為他出得起可是相對來講素人出生的相對年輕的他可能沒有這麼多條件的時候我的助理就變少了形成不公平的競爭也形成服務品質的差別這就是問題所以國家當初設定公費助理的制度的初衷應該是這件事吧\n\n02:19.467 --> 02:42.633\n我這樣講有問題嗎還是你們反對這樣的說法?初衷是讓助理來協助議員來做問證那可能有一些議員的這個部分需要做一些補助所以這個補助是一個所以你要有一個基本款是大家都公平的情況嘛去確保基礎的問證品質對不對如果議員有需要拼更多的助理需要更多的經費的話可能就需要議員\n\n02:43.693 --> 03:02.714\n所以你今天把公費拿掉其實是很危險的事情這是我要跟你講的第一件事第二件事為什麼大家講要檢討然後大家去談說議員助理也要隨著時代的改變他的勞工的待遇也要與時的拒進所以說不只是薪水的補助他也要有加班費有資錢費有職災補償以及等等相關的一些措施\n\n03:03.234 --> 03:24.276\n那行政院當然現在也調以前大家從來不去談議員的助理能不能有加班費現在講說有加班費但是你知道我很好奇啦你們院板當初算出比如說我以直轄市議員為例啦30萬元的公費助理的費用對不對然後其中有百分之百分之多少百分之二十之內對不對是算作加班費跟各種補助喔你們當初是怎麼算這個標準的\n\n03:27.644 --> 03:39.634\n其實目前各個議會都有編列預算給議員補助助理的勞退跟健保的費用目前就有一些基本的一個費用\n\n03:45.379 --> 04:06.624\n那目前我們如果涉算之後大概直轄市跟縣市的部分都會增加2萬左右就是說直轄市的原來邊內的經費是4萬提升到這個6萬那這個縣市的部分1.2萬提升到2.8萬大概我們都已經涉算過了涉算過你確定嗎\n\n04:08.325 --> 04:23.442\n你覺得在院板假設院板為基礎通過的時候一個議員一個直轄市議員或者是縣市議員他一個月可以多編出多少的加班費給他滿編的助理直轄市的部分可以4萬提升到6萬\n\n04:26.581 --> 04:29.884\n市長你對這個都沒有研究這不是你的所備範圍還怎麼樣?報告委員我特別要跟委員報告\n\n04:48.516 --> 05:10.934\n加班我們現在用助理會額度的百分之二來提累那以前是勞健保勞退現在我們增加了資遣會跟加班會這一部分所以我今天要跟你討論的事情你看一下表格按照30萬的基準來算我們用簡單的算法就平均也就是說我請七個助理一個認真服務不管是跑紅白鐵然後到協法案協助問證的一個助理我給他四萬兩千塊不為過吧\n\n05:12.395 --> 05:34.494\n合理對不對我如果7個人你30萬額度他會請7個人對不對7個人裡面42000多塊勞保勞退加健保每一個助理就8400多塊7個助理加起來多少錢59115啊你剛剛講按照你院版的版本這個實際上法定預算編列的20%以內也就你只有6萬塊的經費你光是付勞保勞退健保付完59100多塊不見了\n\n05:37.336 --> 06:00.086\n請問這哪門子有加班費啊?平均一個議員一個月只有885塊的加班費可以給自己的助理那有休跟沒休請問有什麼不一樣?我們原本跟委員報告原本的這個之下是大概4萬嘛就補貼他勞健保現形的狀況24萬加4萬大概就是勞健保用完嘛你把它提升到30萬結果你這個只變6萬而且不是外加的方式到處還是沒有加班費啊\n\n06:01.046 --> 06:18.304\n那不是問那不能秀啊秀就一樣嗎?可能還4萬現在外加2萬嘛對你外加2萬可是你的總額提升到了30萬嘛所以你按照這不管是用什麼樣的排列組合算你都不會有額外的加班費出現啊因為光是付勞保勞退加健保就已經把這一筆6萬塊錢全部用完了捏你們有沒有算到這件事?\n\n06:19.298 --> 06:47.319\n我們現在還有一個東西就是這個可以跟助理的人數的下限這是有關係的當然嘛可是問題就是你即便改變算法我剛剛也試過啦比如說兩個主任加上一般的比較基層算起來還是不會有加班費嘛來再看縣市議員的部分也是一樣啦縣市議員按照院版變成14萬也許是3個人4個人或5個人不管你怎麼樣搞排列組合一樣你所謂的加班費的20%用在勞保勞退健保用完就沒有了嘛\n\n06:48.246 --> 07:11.661\n剩下可以調度加班費的額度剩下幾百塊有跟沒有不一樣所以我講你今天要修我肯定你但是我講除了審查重塑之外我們也主張福利重優今天有這麼多條文要討論我們先講這一件事情如果我們的加班費按照你現行的法條等於是沒有不要朝三暮四大家都是搞政治的人助理是很辛苦的要做當然是要用外加的方式來處理\n\n07:13.222 --> 07:29.152\n我希望內政部在做這個事我們都肯定我覺得這件事情不要在那邊藍的講綠的綁裝綠的講藍的綁裝那不藝術啦我們講的是提升基層的服務品質跟勞動待遇嘛對不對但既然要做就把它做好來我希望待會的討論可以往這些方向來對焦福利從優審查總數\n\n07:32.374 --> 07:47.429\n對阿你這個考量在內到最後只有一兩一千塊不到的加班費編下去大家會覺得好像期待很高阿最後發現好像都不是這樣所以該條的額度要調整該修的法條要做修正我們要從優處理好不好好謝謝委員好謝謝辛苦了\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.07,"end":14.034,"text":"市長,早安。今天花一點點時間來討論民意代表的這個費用,因為今天其實大家主張的東西很不一樣,很多,大概還有主條討論時間沒有關係,但本期的主張是這樣,福利從優,審查從速,既然要談,"},{"start":31.63,"end":52.3,"text":"因為這個民意代表尤其是議員助理費的部分其實20幾年沒有動那中間其實公教人員都加薪加滿多的對不對所以說遲早要面對這樣的問題但我是認為啦面對這個問題要做就一步到位來顧好品質我們主張是這樣所以針對院版的部分我們來做一下討論我想先請教次長為什麼我們要有公費助理的機制"},{"start":54.274,"end":74.871,"text":"我這裡特別跟委員報告一下其實我們是對這個助理的這個補助費不是公費所以這一次我們也把公費拿掉所以你認為不應該有公費助理的機制嗎?因為現在的助理跟議員的關係是僱主跟老公嘛當初為什麼有公費助理?當初為什麼界定叫公費助理?為什麼?"},{"start":76.223,"end":77.103,"text":"為什麼政府要補助議員去請助理為什麼"},{"start":91.704,"end":110.452,"text":"你會瞭解這政策的核心目標跟概念是什麼?為什麼要公費是因為公平公平性為什麼要公平性呢?因為我們今天大家都是投票選出來的民意代表可是我們有人家底很雄厚有人家底很單薄"},{"start":111.601,"end":137.698,"text":"如果說把助理這件事情單純定義為這就是民意代表的私人的民事雇用關係那麼家底雄厚的民意代表哇我可以二三十個三四十個助理沒有問題因為他出得起可是相對來講素人出生的相對年輕的他可能沒有這麼多條件的時候我的助理就變少了形成不公平的競爭也形成服務品質的差別這就是問題所以國家當初設定公費助理的制度的初衷應該是這件事吧"},{"start":139.467,"end":162.633,"text":"我這樣講有問題嗎還是你們反對這樣的說法?初衷是讓助理來協助議員來做問證那可能有一些議員的這個部分需要做一些補助所以這個補助是一個所以你要有一個基本款是大家都公平的情況嘛去確保基礎的問證品質對不對如果議員有需要拼更多的助理需要更多的經費的話可能就需要議員"},{"start":163.693,"end":182.714,"text":"所以你今天把公費拿掉其實是很危險的事情這是我要跟你講的第一件事第二件事為什麼大家講要檢討然後大家去談說議員助理也要隨著時代的改變他的勞工的待遇也要與時的拒進所以說不只是薪水的補助他也要有加班費有資錢費有職災補償以及等等相關的一些措施"},{"start":183.234,"end":204.276,"text":"那行政院當然現在也調以前大家從來不去談議員的助理能不能有加班費現在講說有加班費但是你知道我很好奇啦你們院板當初算出比如說我以直轄市議員為例啦30萬元的公費助理的費用對不對然後其中有百分之百分之多少百分之二十之內對不對是算作加班費跟各種補助喔你們當初是怎麼算這個標準的"},{"start":207.644,"end":219.634,"text":"其實目前各個議會都有編列預算給議員補助助理的勞退跟健保的費用目前就有一些基本的一個費用"},{"start":225.379,"end":246.624,"text":"那目前我們如果涉算之後大概直轄市跟縣市的部分都會增加2萬左右就是說直轄市的原來邊內的經費是4萬提升到這個6萬那這個縣市的部分1.2萬提升到2.8萬大概我們都已經涉算過了涉算過你確定嗎"},{"start":248.325,"end":263.442,"text":"你覺得在院板假設院板為基礎通過的時候一個議員一個直轄市議員或者是縣市議員他一個月可以多編出多少的加班費給他滿編的助理直轄市的部分可以4萬提升到6萬"},{"start":266.581,"end":269.884,"text":"市長你對這個都沒有研究這不是你的所備範圍還怎麼樣?報告委員我特別要跟委員報告"},{"start":288.516,"end":310.934,"text":"加班我們現在用助理會額度的百分之二來提累那以前是勞健保勞退現在我們增加了資遣會跟加班會這一部分所以我今天要跟你討論的事情你看一下表格按照30萬的基準來算我們用簡單的算法就平均也就是說我請七個助理一個認真服務不管是跑紅白鐵然後到協法案協助問證的一個助理我給他四萬兩千塊不為過吧"},{"start":312.395,"end":334.494,"text":"合理對不對我如果7個人你30萬額度他會請7個人對不對7個人裡面42000多塊勞保勞退加健保每一個助理就8400多塊7個助理加起來多少錢59115啊你剛剛講按照你院版的版本這個實際上法定預算編列的20%以內也就你只有6萬塊的經費你光是付勞保勞退健保付完59100多塊不見了"},{"start":337.336,"end":360.086,"text":"請問這哪門子有加班費啊?平均一個議員一個月只有885塊的加班費可以給自己的助理那有休跟沒休請問有什麼不一樣?我們原本跟委員報告原本的這個之下是大概4萬嘛就補貼他勞健保現形的狀況24萬加4萬大概就是勞健保用完嘛你把它提升到30萬結果你這個只變6萬而且不是外加的方式到處還是沒有加班費啊"},{"start":361.046,"end":378.304,"text":"那不是問那不能秀啊秀就一樣嗎?可能還4萬現在外加2萬嘛對你外加2萬可是你的總額提升到了30萬嘛所以你按照這不管是用什麼樣的排列組合算你都不會有額外的加班費出現啊因為光是付勞保勞退加健保就已經把這一筆6萬塊錢全部用完了捏你們有沒有算到這件事?"},{"start":379.298,"end":407.319,"text":"我們現在還有一個東西就是這個可以跟助理的人數的下限這是有關係的當然嘛可是問題就是你即便改變算法我剛剛也試過啦比如說兩個主任加上一般的比較基層算起來還是不會有加班費嘛來再看縣市議員的部分也是一樣啦縣市議員按照院版變成14萬也許是3個人4個人或5個人不管你怎麼樣搞排列組合一樣你所謂的加班費的20%用在勞保勞退健保用完就沒有了嘛"},{"start":408.246,"end":431.661,"text":"剩下可以調度加班費的額度剩下幾百塊有跟沒有不一樣所以我講你今天要修我肯定你但是我講除了審查重塑之外我們也主張福利重優今天有這麼多條文要討論我們先講這一件事情如果我們的加班費按照你現行的法條等於是沒有不要朝三暮四大家都是搞政治的人助理是很辛苦的要做當然是要用外加的方式來處理"},{"start":433.222,"end":449.152,"text":"我希望內政部在做這個事 我們都肯定我覺得這件事情不要在那邊藍的講綠的綁裝 綠的講藍的綁裝 那不藝術啦我們講的是提升基層的服務品質跟勞動待遇嘛 對不對但既然要做就把它做好來我希望待會的討論可以往這些方向來對焦福利從優 審查總數"},{"start":452.374,"end":467.429,"text":"對阿你這個考量在內到最後只有一兩一千塊不到的加班費編下去大家會覺得好像期待很高阿最後發現好像都不是這樣所以該條的額度要調整該修的法條要做修正我們要從優處理好不好好謝謝委員好謝謝辛苦了"}]}}}}