{"id":152348,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152348","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9fa9bc2102b9cf71916b2f92a3910043827cef00f012e52e36499d1b681a2ac7b3f1ac033b9891ed5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"13:15:58 - 13:22:56","影片長度":"00:06:58","會議時間":"2024-05-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例」修正草案等37案，詳見議事日程。\n【5月8日及9日兩天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-08","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-17"},"duration":418,"end_time":"2024-05-08T13:22:56+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-08T13:15:58+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":807,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（13時16分）謝謝主席。有請次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：次長好。上次在質詢內政部部長的時候，我知道部長今天好像有事就先離開了，沒有關係，有公務大家可以諒解。目前針對平均地權條例，本來私法人是禁止買住宅的，可是授權給內政部在一些例外的狀況下可以允許他買，但我們發現內政部在審核這些例外狀況的時候實在是荒腔走板，有錢人透過他設立的投資公司、一人公司向你們申請買宿舍，內政部竟然也核准了，這種誇張的狀況從3.2億的豪宅甚至到5.6億的文華苑，我上次質詢過部長，部長說這個不對，不應該許可，現在問題來了，如果按照現行的辦法，它本來就不應該許可，請問現在內政部打算要怎麼辦？"],["吳次長容輝：謝謝委員關心，針對這一部分，我們現在在檢討許可辦法，那剛剛委員……"],["黃委員國昌：次長，我先打斷一下。這裡就是兩個部分，修法的部分，等一下我會進一步請教，現在問的是之前不應該准卻准了，接下來內政部打算怎麼處理？"],["吳次長容輝：已經決定的部分，依照行政程序法裡面的規定，這個應該是不會把它撤銷或廢止。"],["黃委員國昌：為什麼？"],["吳次長容輝：因為依法當初已經核准人家了。"],["黃委員國昌：依照行政程序法，違法的行政處分要不要撤銷？"],["吳次長容輝：當然撤銷。"],["黃委員國昌：部長也說這不應該嘛！那這為什麼不是違法的行政處分？"],["吳次長容輝：這個要看當初購買時，我們核准人家時它是不是合法的。"],["黃委員國昌：事情非常簡單啦！一人公司買宿舍，一個人住，這個叫宿舍嗎？這個符合當初我們在平均地權條例要開的例外條款嗎？為什麼我認為這是一個違法的行政處分，因為它根本就不符合例外所應該允許的狀況，內政部卻允許了！所以我認為是違法的行政處分。上一次我請教林右昌部長的時候，他也認為這個不應該准，這是林右昌部長講的喔！內政部在面對這個問題的時候，不能夠在國會一手說這個不應該准，結果轉身回到內政部又說既然准了就准了，這個我們也沒有辦法處理，這個態度不對吧？"],["吳次長容輝：我們之所以現在要去檢討修正這個辦法，也是因為當初訂定的這個許可辦法的確存有瑕疵，規範不足，所以你說……"],["黃委員國昌：我先停一下，你把不應該准這件事現在解釋成「不是我們不應該准，只是因為規範不足」，這是兩件不一樣的事。次長，你應該可以區別吧？「不應該准卻准了」跟「因為規範不足所以我們准了」這兩個是不一樣的事嘛！所以現在內政部的立場是什麼？林右昌部長上次在這邊講的不應該准是在講空話嗎？是在講空話嗎？因為這大家都很關心啊！非常多人都很關心啊！不應該准的卻准了，結果我們內政部軟趴趴啊！是碰到這些什麼大富翁、大富豪、大財團，膝蓋很軟，沒有辦法執行法令嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：也不是啦！就是因為發現到有這樣的漏洞了，所以我們現在才要把它補起來。"],["黃委員國昌：所以從內政部的立場來講，你們認為之前的行政處分沒有問題，是法規有問題，是嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：不是，當初我們也沒有考慮到說當初的規範不足，就是一個人的公司怎麼可以去買豪宅……"],["黃委員國昌：發言時間有限，我尊重接下來的委員，但我覺得立場要講清楚。第一個，對內政部今天這樣的態度我不同意。我為什麼不同意？不應該准的東西卻准了你們就要處理，而不是林右昌部長在這邊跟全國民眾說這不應該准，結果今天的說法變了，變成了是因為之前的規範有問題，我們來修規範，至於之前准的怎麼辦？也沒有打算要怎麼辦，這是我的立場。","第二個，就你們現在目前預告修正的私法人買受供住宅使用之房屋許可辦法，今天早上我跟OURs的朋友跟關心居住正義的朋友開了一個記者會，我們開記者會的訴求非常的清楚，你們即使修訂了這個辦法也無法解決問題，為什麼沒有辦法解決問題呢？包括你們現在將員工人數從1人修正為5個人就可以，那當初陳泰銘買文華苑時的員工是6個人，按照你們新修正的辦法就可以啦！最嚴重的事情是什麼？最嚴重的事情是你們根本沒有列管追蹤使用狀況的查核機制，沒有列管使用狀況的查核機制那等於是空的嘛！等於是空的嘛！你事後像現在一樣發現原來它不是宿舍，你也沒有辦法怎麼樣嘛！你甚至沒有機會去了解它根本就不是拿來當宿舍用嘛！所以今天我們跟OURs開記者會的訴求很清楚，這件事情由新的部長聆聽所有關心居住正義跟平均地權條例的公民還有公民團體的心聲再做決策，不要在林右昌部長下台以前匆匆通過。可以嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：因為現在許可辦法還在公告當中，我想應該不斷的會有意見進來……"],["黃委員國昌：交給新的部長決定，好不好？"],["吳次長容輝：時間上這個大概也會到下個部長。"],["黃委員國昌：所以交給新的部長決定，好不好？下台以前不要匆促的過這個沒有用的修正辦法。"],["吳次長容輝：不會啦！這個還會有意見不斷的進來，我們還要去處理。"],["黃委員國昌：好。謝謝！"],["吳次長容輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢。","下一位請洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-17","speakers":["吳琪銘","楊瓊瓔","徐欣瑩","王美惠","盧縣一","黃捷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","高金素梅","許宇甄","李柏毅","呂玉玲","王育敏","李彥秀","徐巧芯","蔡易餘","劉建國","黃建賓","鄭正鈐","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","張宏陸","牛煦庭","張智倫","丁學忠","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鍾佳濱","羅智強","黃珊珊","邱鎮軍","邱志偉","張嘉郡","黃仁","范雲","吳思瑤"],"page_start":69,"meetingDate":["2024-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1134201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條\n文修正草案」案；二、審查委員黃捷等22人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補\n助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村\n里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19人擬具\n「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例部分條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員羅\n智強等 25 人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」\n案；六、審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六\n條條文修正草案」案；七、審查委員呂玉玲等19人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補\n助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；八、審查委員吳思瑤等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支\n給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；九、審查委員陳超明等18人擬具「地\n方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例增訂第七條之一條文草案」案；十、審查委員\n李柏毅等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」\n案；十一、審查委員黃健豪等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例增\n訂第七條之一條文草案」案；十二、審查委員徐巧芯等28人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里\n長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；十三、審查委員莊瑞雄等18人擬具「地方民意\n代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；十四、審查委員高金素梅\n等29人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第七條條文修正草案」案；十\n五、審查委員林思銘等26人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條\n文修正草案」案；十六、審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助\n費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；十七、審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具「地方民意代表費用支\n給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條、第七條及第九條條文修正草案」案；十八、審查委員蔡\n易餘等 19 人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」\n案；十九、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六\n條條文修正草案」案；二十、審查委員許宇甄等16人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務\n補助費補助條例第七條條文修正草案」案；二十一、審查委員黃秀芳等19人擬具「地方民意代表\n費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十二、審查委員鍾佳濱等27\n人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十\n三、審查委員陳瑩等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第五條、第\n六條及第七條條文修正草案」案；二十四、審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等 17 人擬具\n「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十五、審查\n委員陳素月等21人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草\n案」案；二十六、審查委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助\n條例第三條及第六條條文修正草案」案；二十七、審查委員洪申翰等16人擬具「地方民意代表費\n用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十八、審查委員李彥秀等20人\n擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十九、\n審查委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第七條條文修\n正草案」案；三十、審查委員黃建賓等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補\n助條例第六條及第七條條文修正草案」案；三十一、審查委員劉建國等16人擬具「地方民意代表\n費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；三十二、審查委員高金素梅等\n22人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第八條條文修正草案」案；三十\n三、審查委員鄭正鈐等18人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條\n文修正草案」案；三十四、審查委員陳素月等22人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補\n助費補助條例第五條附表修正草案」案；三十五、審查委員陳培瑜等21人擬具「地方民意代表費\n用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；三十六、審查委員王美惠等21人\n擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第七條條文修正草案」案；三十七、\n審查委員王育敏等16人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修\n正草案」案","agenda_id":"1134201_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152348","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152348","tool":"pyannote","id":"152348-pyannote"},"job_id":"9Dq2uWzBCX3ql2on","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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82.337, \"end\": 82.357, \"text\": \"為什麼?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 82.337, \"end\": 82.357, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 110.171, \"end\": 131.355, \"text\": \"因為依法你當初已經核准人家了先提一下依照行政程序法裏面違法的行政處分要不要撤銷對啊那部長也說這不應該嘛那這為什麼不是違法的行政處分這個當初你要看他當初這個購買的時候我們核准人家當初他是不是違法事情非常簡單啦是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 110.171, \"end\": 110.411, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 110.411, \"end\": 110.592, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 110.592, \"end\": 110.732, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 110.732, \"end\": 111.112, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"初\", \"start\": 111.112, \"end\": 111.232, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 111.232, \"end\": 111.453, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 111.453, \"end\": 111.613, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"准\", \"start\": 111.613, \"end\": 111.773, 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00:01:19,559\n這種誇張的狀況從3.2億的豪宅甚至到5.6億的文化院我上次執行過部長部長說這個不對這個不對這個不應該許可那我現在的問題來了如果按照現行的辦法他本來就不應該許可現在內政部打算要怎麼辦\n\n4\n00:01:22,337 --> 00:01:22,357\n為什麼?\n\n5\n00:01:50,171 --> 00:02:11,355\n因為依法你當初已經核准人家了先提一下依照行政程序法裏面違法的行政處分要不要撤銷對啊那部長也說這不應該嘛那這為什麼不是違法的行政處分這個當初你要看他當初這個購買的時候我們核准人家當初他是不是違法事情非常簡單啦是\n\n6\n00:02:12,311 --> 00:02:36,366\n議員公司買宿舍一個人住這個叫宿舍嗎這個是符合當初我們在平均地權條例要開的例外條款嗎為什麼我認為這是一個違法的行政處分因為他根本就不符合例外所應該允許的狀況被政府卻允許了所以我認為是違法的行政處分我上一次\n\n7\n00:02:37,638 --> 00:03:00,982\n請教林二昌部長的時候他有認為說這個不應該準這個是林二昌部長講的喔但內政部在面對這個問題的時候你不能夠在國會一手說這個不應該準結果轉身回去到內政部的時候說啊既然準了就準了這個我們也沒有辦法處理這個態度不對吧來請教次長\n\n8\n00:03:01,562 --> 00:03:06,444\n我先提一下齁你把不應該準的東西現在把它解釋成不是我們不應該準只是因為規範不足\n\n9\n00:03:24,841 --> 00:03:50,422\n這是兩件不一樣的事啊市長你應該可以區別吧是不應該準確準了跟啊是因為規範不足所以我們準了這兩個不一樣的事嘛所以現在內政部的立場是什麼是李耀昌部長上次在這邊講說這不應該準是在講空話嗎是在講空話嗎因為現在大家都很關心啊是非常多人都很關心啊\n\n10\n00:03:52,313 --> 00:04:17,348\n不應該準的卻準了結果我們內政部軟趴趴啊是碰到這些什麼大富翁大富豪大財團膝蓋很軟沒有辦法執行法律嗎請教次長也不是啦現在就是因為我們發現到有這樣的漏洞了嘛所以我們現在才要把它拼起來嘛所以從內政部的立場來講你們認為之前的行政處分沒有問題是法規有問題是嗎\n\n11\n00:04:19,312 --> 00:04:41,203\n是當初我們也沒有去考慮到說你現在當初的規範不足就是你讓一個人的公司怎麼可以去買豪宅時機有限我尊重接下來的委員但我覺得立場要講清楚第一個第一個對內政部今天這樣子的態度我不同意我為什麼不同意不應該準的東西確準的你們就要處理\n\n12\n00:04:42,130 --> 00:05:02,803\n而不是李耀昌部長在這邊跟全國民眾說這不應該這不應該准結果今天的說法變了今天的說法變成了是說那個是因為之前的規範有問題我們來修規範那至於之前准的怎麼辦也沒有打算要怎麼辦這是我的立場這是我的立場第二個\n\n13\n00:05:06,755 --> 00:05:22,844\n就你們現在目前遇到修正的司法人買售公住宅使用的房屋許可辦法今天早上我跟奧斯的朋友跟關心居住正義的朋友我們開了一個記者會我們開了記者會的訴求非常的清楚\n\n14\n00:05:23,624 --> 00:05:53,127\n你們即使修訂了這個辦法沒有辦法解決問題那為什麼沒有辦法解決問題包括了說你們現在員工的人數從一人修正為五個人就可以那當初陳泰銘滿文華院他是六個人啊按照你們修正的辦法就可以啦最嚴重的事情是什麼最嚴重的事情是你們根本沒有列管追蹤使用狀況的查核機制啊\n\n15\n00:05:53,683 --> 00:06:04,771\n沒有列管使用狀況的查核機制那等於是空的嘛等於是空的嘛你事後像現在一樣發現啊原來他不是宿舍\n\n16\n00:06:05,851 --> 00:06:33,897\n你有沒有辦法怎麼樣嘛?你甚至沒有機會去了解他根本就不是拿來當宿舍用嘛所以今天我們跟奧斯開了記者會我們的宿舍很清楚這件事情由新的部長由新的部長聆聽所有關心居住正義跟平均地權條例的公民還有公民團體的心聲再做決策不要在林佑昌部長下台以前衝衝通過可以嗎?\n\n17\n00:06:35,001 --> 00:06:35,282\n謝謝黃國昌委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6794\t31976\t謝謝主席 麻煩有請次長好 前處長我也好次長 上次在質詢內政部部長的時候我知道今天好像部長有事就先離開了吧沒有關係 有公路大家可以諒解大家目前針對平均地權條例 我們發現的現象是說本來司法人是禁止買住宅的\n32870\t55715\t司法人是禁止買住宅的那授權給內政部在一些例外的狀況可以允許他買但我們發現內政部在審核這些例外的狀況的時候實在是荒腔走板有些人透過他設立的投資公司議員公司申請向你們買宿舍你們竟然內政部也核准了\n57442\t79559\t這種誇張的狀況從3.2億的豪宅甚至到5.6億的文化院我上次執行過部長部長說這個不對這個不對這個不應該許可那我現在的問題來了如果按照現行的辦法他本來就不應該許可現在內政部打算要怎麼辦\n82337\t82357\t為什麼?\n110171\t131355\t因為依法你當初已經核准人家了先提一下依照行政程序法裏面違法的行政處分要不要撤銷對啊那部長也說這不應該嘛那這為什麼不是違法的行政處分這個當初你要看他當初這個購買的時候我們核准人家當初他是不是違法事情非常簡單啦是\n132311\t156366\t議員公司買宿舍一個人住這個叫宿舍嗎這個是符合當初我們在平均地權條例要開的例外條款嗎為什麼我認為這是一個違法的行政處分因為他根本就不符合例外所應該允許的狀況被政府卻允許了所以我認為是違法的行政處分我上一次\n157638\t180982\t請教林二昌部長的時候他有認為說這個不應該準這個是林二昌部長講的喔但內政部在面對這個問題的時候你不能夠在國會一手說這個不應該準結果轉身回去到內政部的時候說啊既然準了就準了這個我們也沒有辦法處理這個態度不對吧來請教次長\n181562\t186444\t我先提一下齁你把不應該準的東西現在把它解釋成不是我們不應該準只是因為規範不足\n204841\t230422\t這是兩件不一樣的事啊市長你應該可以區別吧是不應該準確準了跟啊是因為規範不足所以我們準了這兩個不一樣的事嘛所以現在內政部的立場是什麼是李耀昌部長上次在這邊講說這不應該準是在講空話嗎是在講空話嗎因為現在大家都很關心啊是非常多人都很關心啊\n232313\t257348\t不應該準的卻準了 結果我們內政部軟趴趴啊是碰到這些什麼 大富翁 大富豪 大財團膝蓋很軟 沒有辦法執行法律嗎 請教次長也不是啦 現在就是因為我們發現到有這樣的漏洞了嘛所以我們現在才要把它拼起來嘛 所以從內政部的立場來講 你們認為之前的行政處分沒有問題 是法規有問題 是嗎\n259312\t281203\t是當初我們也沒有去考慮到說你現在當初的規範不足就是你讓一個人的公司怎麼可以去買豪宅時機有限我尊重接下來的委員但我覺得立場要講清楚第一個第一個對內政部今天這樣子的態度我不同意我為什麼不同意不應該準的東西確準的你們就要處理\n282130\t302803\t而不是李耀昌部長在這邊跟全國民眾說這不應該這不應該准結果今天的說法變了今天的說法變成了是說那個是因為之前的規範有問題我們來修規範那至於之前准的怎麼辦也沒有打算要怎麼辦這是我的立場這是我的立場第二個\n306755\t322844\t就你們現在目前遇到修正的司法人買售公住宅使用的房屋許可辦法今天早上我跟奧斯的朋友跟關心居住正義的朋友我們開了一個記者會我們開了記者會的訴求非常的清楚\n323624\t353127\t你們即使修訂了這個辦法沒有辦法解決問題那為什麼沒有辦法解決問題包括了說你們現在員工的人數從一人修正為五個人就可以那當初陳泰銘滿文華院他是六個人啊按照你們修正的辦法就可以啦最嚴重的事情是什麼最嚴重的事情是你們根本沒有列管追蹤使用狀況的查核機制啊\n353683\t364771\t沒有列管使用狀況的查核機制那等於是空的嘛等於是空的嘛你事後像現在一樣發現啊原來他不是宿舍\n365851\t393897\t你有沒有辦法怎麼樣嘛?你甚至沒有機會去了解他根本就不是拿來當宿舍用嘛所以今天我們跟奧斯開了記者會我們的宿舍很清楚這件事情由新的部長由新的部長聆聽所有關心居住正義跟平均地權條例的公民還有公民團體的心聲再做決策不要在林佑昌部長下台以前衝衝通過可以嗎?\n395001\t395282\t謝謝黃國昌委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 麻煩有請次長好 前處長我也好次長 上次在質詢內政部部長的時候我知道今天好像部長有事就先離開了吧沒有關係 有公路大家可以諒解大家目前針對平均地權條例 我們發現的現象是說本來司法人是禁止買住宅的\n司法人是禁止買住宅的那授權給內政部在一些例外的狀況可以允許他買但我們發現內政部在審核這些例外的狀況的時候實在是荒腔走板有些人透過他設立的投資公司議員公司申請向你們買宿舍你們竟然內政部也核准了\n這種誇張的狀況從3.2億的豪宅甚至到5.6億的文化院我上次執行過部長部長說這個不對這個不對這個不應該許可那我現在的問題來了如果按照現行的辦法他本來就不應該許可現在內政部打算要怎麼辦\n為什麼?\n因為依法你當初已經核准人家了先提一下依照行政程序法裏面違法的行政處分要不要撤銷對啊那部長也說這不應該嘛那這為什麼不是違法的行政處分這個當初你要看他當初這個購買的時候我們核准人家當初他是不是違法事情非常簡單啦是\n議員公司買宿舍一個人住這個叫宿舍嗎這個是符合當初我們在平均地權條例要開的例外條款嗎為什麼我認為這是一個違法的行政處分因為他根本就不符合例外所應該允許的狀況被政府卻允許了所以我認為是違法的行政處分我上一次\n請教林二昌部長的時候他有認為說這個不應該準這個是林二昌部長講的喔但內政部在面對這個問題的時候你不能夠在國會一手說這個不應該準結果轉身回去到內政部的時候說啊既然準了就準了這個我們也沒有辦法處理這個態度不對吧來請教次長\n我先提一下齁你把不應該準的東西現在把它解釋成不是我們不應該準只是因為規範不足\n這是兩件不一樣的事啊市長你應該可以區別吧是不應該準確準了跟啊是因為規範不足所以我們準了這兩個不一樣的事嘛所以現在內政部的立場是什麼是李耀昌部長上次在這邊講說這不應該準是在講空話嗎是在講空話嗎因為現在大家都很關心啊是非常多人都很關心啊\n不應該準的卻準了 結果我們內政部軟趴趴啊是碰到這些什麼 大富翁 大富豪 大財團膝蓋很軟 沒有辦法執行法律嗎 請教次長也不是啦 現在就是因為我們發現到有這樣的漏洞了嘛所以我們現在才要把它拼起來嘛 所以從內政部的立場來講 你們認為之前的行政處分沒有問題 是法規有問題 是嗎\n是當初我們也沒有去考慮到說你現在當初的規範不足就是你讓一個人的公司怎麼可以去買豪宅時機有限我尊重接下來的委員但我覺得立場要講清楚第一個第一個對內政部今天這樣子的態度我不同意我為什麼不同意不應該準的東西確準的你們就要處理\n而不是李耀昌部長在這邊跟全國民眾說這不應該這不應該准結果今天的說法變了今天的說法變成了是說那個是因為之前的規範有問題我們來修規範那至於之前准的怎麼辦也沒有打算要怎麼辦這是我的立場這是我的立場第二個\n就你們現在目前遇到修正的司法人買售公住宅使用的房屋許可辦法今天早上我跟奧斯的朋友跟關心居住正義的朋友我們開了一個記者會我們開了記者會的訴求非常的清楚\n你們即使修訂了這個辦法沒有辦法解決問題那為什麼沒有辦法解決問題包括了說你們現在員工的人數從一人修正為五個人就可以那當初陳泰銘滿文華院他是六個人啊按照你們修正的辦法就可以啦最嚴重的事情是什麼最嚴重的事情是你們根本沒有列管追蹤使用狀況的查核機制啊\n沒有列管使用狀況的查核機制那等於是空的嘛等於是空的嘛你事後像現在一樣發現啊原來他不是宿舍\n你有沒有辦法怎麼樣嘛?你甚至沒有機會去了解他根本就不是拿來當宿舍用嘛所以今天我們跟奧斯開了記者會我們的宿舍很清楚這件事情由新的部長由新的部長聆聽所有關心居住正義跟平均地權條例的公民還有公民團體的心聲再做決策不要在林佑昌部長下台以前衝衝通過可以嗎?\n謝謝黃國昌委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.794 --> 00:31.976\n謝謝主席麻煩有請次長好前處長我也好次長上次在質詢內政部部長的時候我知道今天好像部長有事就先離開了吧沒有關係有公路大家可以諒解大家目前針對平均地權條例我們發現的現象是說本來司法人是禁止買住宅的\n\n00:32.870 --> 00:55.715\n司法人是禁止買住宅的那授權給內政部在一些例外的狀況可以允許他買但我們發現內政部在審核這些例外的狀況的時候實在是荒腔走板有些人透過他設立的投資公司議員公司申請向你們買宿舍你們竟然內政部也核准了\n\n00:57.442 --> 01:19.559\n這種誇張的狀況從3.2億的豪宅甚至到5.6億的文化院我上次執行過部長部長說這個不對這個不對這個不應該許可那我現在的問題來了如果按照現行的辦法他本來就不應該許可現在內政部打算要怎麼辦\n\n01:22.337 --> 01:22.357\n為什麼?\n\n01:50.171 --> 02:11.355\n因為依法你當初已經核准人家了先提一下依照行政程序法裏面違法的行政處分要不要撤銷對啊那部長也說這不應該嘛那這為什麼不是違法的行政處分這個當初你要看他當初這個購買的時候我們核准人家當初他是不是違法事情非常簡單啦是\n\n02:12.311 --> 02:36.366\n議員公司買宿舍一個人住這個叫宿舍嗎這個是符合當初我們在平均地權條例要開的例外條款嗎為什麼我認為這是一個違法的行政處分因為他根本就不符合例外所應該允許的狀況被政府卻允許了所以我認為是違法的行政處分我上一次\n\n02:37.638 --> 03:00.982\n請教林二昌部長的時候他有認為說這個不應該準這個是林二昌部長講的喔但內政部在面對這個問題的時候你不能夠在國會一手說這個不應該準結果轉身回去到內政部的時候說啊既然準了就準了這個我們也沒有辦法處理這個態度不對吧來請教次長\n\n03:01.562 --> 03:06.444\n我先提一下齁你把不應該準的東西現在把它解釋成不是我們不應該準只是因為規範不足\n\n03:24.841 --> 03:50.422\n這是兩件不一樣的事啊市長你應該可以區別吧是不應該準確準了跟啊是因為規範不足所以我們準了這兩個不一樣的事嘛所以現在內政部的立場是什麼是李耀昌部長上次在這邊講說這不應該準是在講空話嗎是在講空話嗎因為現在大家都很關心啊是非常多人都很關心啊\n\n03:52.313 --> 04:17.348\n不應該準的卻準了結果我們內政部軟趴趴啊是碰到這些什麼大富翁大富豪大財團膝蓋很軟沒有辦法執行法律嗎請教次長也不是啦現在就是因為我們發現到有這樣的漏洞了嘛所以我們現在才要把它拼起來嘛所以從內政部的立場來講你們認為之前的行政處分沒有問題是法規有問題是嗎\n\n04:19.312 --> 04:41.203\n是當初我們也沒有去考慮到說你現在當初的規範不足就是你讓一個人的公司怎麼可以去買豪宅時機有限我尊重接下來的委員但我覺得立場要講清楚第一個第一個對內政部今天這樣子的態度我不同意我為什麼不同意不應該準的東西確準的你們就要處理\n\n04:42.130 --> 05:02.803\n而不是李耀昌部長在這邊跟全國民眾說這不應該這不應該准結果今天的說法變了今天的說法變成了是說那個是因為之前的規範有問題我們來修規範那至於之前准的怎麼辦也沒有打算要怎麼辦這是我的立場這是我的立場第二個\n\n05:06.755 --> 05:22.844\n就你們現在目前遇到修正的司法人買售公住宅使用的房屋許可辦法今天早上我跟奧斯的朋友跟關心居住正義的朋友我們開了一個記者會我們開了記者會的訴求非常的清楚\n\n05:23.624 --> 05:53.127\n你們即使修訂了這個辦法沒有辦法解決問題那為什麼沒有辦法解決問題包括了說你們現在員工的人數從一人修正為五個人就可以那當初陳泰銘滿文華院他是六個人啊按照你們修正的辦法就可以啦最嚴重的事情是什麼最嚴重的事情是你們根本沒有列管追蹤使用狀況的查核機制啊\n\n05:53.683 --> 06:04.771\n沒有列管使用狀況的查核機制那等於是空的嘛等於是空的嘛你事後像現在一樣發現啊原來他不是宿舍\n\n06:05.851 --> 06:33.897\n你有沒有辦法怎麼樣嘛?你甚至沒有機會去了解他根本就不是拿來當宿舍用嘛所以今天我們跟奧斯開了記者會我們的宿舍很清楚這件事情由新的部長由新的部長聆聽所有關心居住正義跟平均地權條例的公民還有公民團體的心聲再做決策不要在林佑昌部長下台以前衝衝通過可以嗎?\n\n06:35.001 --> 06:35.282\n謝謝黃國昌委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.794,"end":31.976,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩有請次長好 前處長我也好次長 上次在質詢內政部部長的時候我知道今天好像部長有事就先離開了吧沒有關係 有公路大家可以諒解大家目前針對平均地權條例 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結果我們內政部軟趴趴啊是碰到這些什麼 大富翁 大富豪 大財團膝蓋很軟 沒有辦法執行法律嗎 請教次長也不是啦 現在就是因為我們發現到有這樣的漏洞了嘛所以我們現在才要把它拼起來嘛 所以從內政部的立場來講 你們認為之前的行政處分沒有問題 是法規有問題 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