{"id":152349,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152349","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9fa9bc2102b9cf714a41d516e41fe978827cef00f012e52e36499d1b681a2ac714c232c93ffab7e55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"13:23:02 - 13:31:05","影片長度":"00:08:03","會議時間":"2024-05-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例」修正草案等37案，詳見議事日程。\n【5月8日及9日兩天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-08","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-17"},"duration":483,"end_time":"2024-05-08T13:31:05+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-08T13:23:02+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":837,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（13時23分）謝謝主席。麻煩請次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，很多委員都關心村里長的相關費用以及我們民代議員助理的費用，內政部也提出行政院的版本，我先糾正一下，並不是我們現在才在討論這個，第九屆就已經有委員提出，第十屆也有委員提出，可是當時的內政部部長或是相關的代表講什麼呢？那個時候都講說地方財政困難，都講說地方各縣市議會的財源不一，地方財政困難針對的是村里長，地方政府財源不一針對的是議員的助理，所以那個時候都凍著不動，現在行政院既然有提出版本，行政院版的草案將直轄市議員助理費從24萬元提高為30萬元，縣（市）議員是從8萬元提高到14萬元，所以你們說直轄市議會每年會增加2億7,000多萬元、縣（市）議會增加3億8,000多萬元支出，那這財源怎麼來？"],["吳次長容輝：我想這財源……"],["洪委員孟楷：地方政府？"],["吳次長容輝：地方政府。"],["洪委員孟楷：那我又要再請教一下，村里長的年終慰問金、春節慰問金，陳建仁院長那時候也喊出來並且說初估會增加5億多元，那這財源怎麼來？"],["吳次長容輝：因為這都屬於地制法的地方自治，由地方編列。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以說現在是中央請客、地方買單！"],["吳次長容輝：這不是中央請客。"],["洪委員孟楷：這怎麼不是中央請客、地方買單？我們每一個委員的版本可能更多，在可能有更多的情況下，但至少你行政院今天要負責任啊！你們既然提出行政院版，行政院就應該有財源出來，不是嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：現在我們提出……"],["洪委員孟楷：還是你要有各縣市不一的補助？本席剛剛聽到很多委員也在請教你財源的部分，你有說看各縣市情況，那會不會造成有些縣市有拿到補助，有些縣市拿不到補助？"],["吳次長容輝：所以為什麼要看縣市財政狀況的問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：這不對，這樣就大小眼啊！中央怎麼會對各縣市有大小眼之分呢？有些縣市的財源是地方政府自己籌措，有些縣市的財源是中央補助給地方，讓地方去發。中央可以這樣發錢，我看這個縣市跟我比較好，或是這個縣市的顏色跟我比較相近，會不會又變成是藍綠之分？"],["吳次長容輝：這個不會啊。"],["洪委員孟楷：怎麼不會？"],["吳次長容輝：一般補助款或是統籌分配款，有一個機制在分配，財政劃分法就有了。"],["洪委員孟楷：你的標準是什麼？次長，你的標準是什麼？等一下主席宣布我們下午可能會逐條討論，你在逐條討論的時候，一定要告訴我們，清楚明白講這個財源怎麼來，以及你的機制是什麼。"],["吳次長容輝：是，我想這個都有一個固定的機制。現在我要報告的是，根據地方制度法和財劃法的規定，這些都屬於地方的自治事項，相關預算就由地方來編列。如果有縣市財政比較困窘，我們就用另外一個機制，收支差短來補貼。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果照次長你剛才的講法，那之前第九屆、第十屆擋著就沒有意義啊！如果你說我們尊重地方，第九屆的時候，委員也好，議員也好，大家都有提出來，為什麼那時候你們要擋？你們那時候說地方財政困難，考慮地方的標準，所以不願意讓它過。"],["吳次長容輝：這個不是擋的問題，沒人會去擋這個東西。"],["洪委員孟楷：你現在提出行政院的版本，你告訴大家，你自己劃的部分，年終慰問金5萬元乘以1.5個月，是比照公務員的1.5個月，對不對？"],["吳次長容輝：參考。"],["洪委員孟楷：參考嘛。那你參考這部分，結果財源還是一樣要由地方政府籌編，那這樣之前你們擋的意義是什麼？"],["吳次長容輝：以前也不是擋，以前考量到地方財政關係，這幾年的財政狀況有改善啊。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，我先讓你，我不要扣你帽子，但是我先告訴你，說實在話，第九屆、第十屆各黨團都提出版本，就只有行政院一直沒有提出版本，所以大家會覺得卡就卡在行政部門嘛。我都不講政治考量喔，我都不講內政部長跑到地方視察活動，然後突然就宣布，大家好像看到聖誕老公公來發紅包了！結果不是啊，你只是講中央願意通過，有春節慰問金、議員助理的薪水提高，至於財源怎麼來，你們自己去想辦法，這樣不是又把責任推給地方嗎？這樣子哪一個地方政府會不接受？如果你是要讓地方政府編列財源，那之前第九屆為什麼就不通過？因為責任還是在地方政府身上啊，不是嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：當初的考量，為什麼會沒通過，不是因為擋的關係，這是一個比較嚴肅的議題，也許是政治的議題，但不能用政治的思維來處理啦。"],["洪委員孟楷：這當然是一個嚴肅的議題，就是因為是嚴肅的議題，所以我們才不要用政治思維來想。所以我們才會覺得奇怪，怎麼會內政部部長上任一年多的時間，都沒有處理，到520要卸任了，而且攤開名單一看，新娘不是我，內政部部長已經有新的人選出來了，賴清德總統已經指派新的人選了，我才在地方的行程中說要通過，這樣會讓大家覺得很奇怪。"],["吳次長容輝：不是，這個議題部長一直有在處理。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以我們才會講，既然你今天負責任提出行政院版，我肯定有提出行政院版的負責，你提出行政院版要負責任，連同財源一起提出。我今天沒有說我們委員的版本都要有財源喔，委員的版本有更高的，大家爭相提高，24萬元不夠，我要48萬元，或者要多少錢。當然提出這個版本，可能中央行政部門還要再去算算盤，但是至少你們行政院版本就要有財源，而不是行政院版本出來，還是要讓地方付錢啊！不是這樣嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：按機制本來就是地方出錢，我們現在制度是這樣，你不能說今天訂在法令上都不用……"],["洪委員孟楷：如果按機制是讓地方出錢，那你就不用審查了。為什麼你要審查？你們過去一直強調地方財源困難，各縣市議會財源不一，所以你們不願意放，不是嗎？次長，這個問題非常嚴重，而且這是中央負責的態度，如果今天中央只通過，但是沒有準備財源，很抱歉，你們都玩假的，而且這樣就真的坐實了中央請客、地方買單！我覺得這絕對不是我們應該要推動的。","村里長很辛苦，我們大家都認同，地方議員的助理很辛苦，也因為過去二十幾年都沒有調漲，大家也都希望調漲。但是既然中央提出這樣的版本，你們就應該要負責財源啊！這才是負責任的做法。"],["吳次長容輝：我想這個案子……"],["洪委員孟楷：等一下逐條討論的時候，我也請求主席，一定要讓次長先報告到底你們現在規劃的財源是什麼，不是說看縣市，還是沒有先排。照理講，今天要逐條討論，你們就要先提出來，報告裡面就要寫清楚，而不是讓大家還在詢問。以上，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員的質詢。下一位請楊瓊瓔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-17","speakers":["吳琪銘","楊瓊瓔","徐欣瑩","王美惠","盧縣一","黃捷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","高金素梅","許宇甄","李柏毅","呂玉玲","王育敏","李彥秀","徐巧芯","蔡易餘","劉建國","黃建賓","鄭正鈐","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","張宏陸","牛煦庭","張智倫","丁學忠","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鍾佳濱","羅智強","黃珊珊","邱鎮軍","邱志偉","張嘉郡","黃仁","范雲","吳思瑤"],"page_start":69,"meetingDate":["2024-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1134201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條\n文修正草案」案；二、審查委員黃捷等22人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補\n助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村\n里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19人擬具\n「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例部分條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員羅\n智強等 25 人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」\n案；六、審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六\n條條文修正草案」案；七、審查委員呂玉玲等19人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補\n助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；八、審查委員吳思瑤等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支\n給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；九、審查委員陳超明等18人擬具「地\n方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例增訂第七條之一條文草案」案；十、審查委員\n李柏毅等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」\n案；十一、審查委員黃健豪等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例增\n訂第七條之一條文草案」案；十二、審查委員徐巧芯等28人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里\n長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；十三、審查委員莊瑞雄等18人擬具「地方民意\n代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；十四、審查委員高金素梅\n等29人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第七條條文修正草案」案；十\n五、審查委員林思銘等26人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條\n文修正草案」案；十六、審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助\n費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；十七、審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具「地方民意代表費用支\n給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條、第七條及第九條條文修正草案」案；十八、審查委員蔡\n易餘等 19 人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」\n案；十九、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六\n條條文修正草案」案；二十、審查委員許宇甄等16人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務\n補助費補助條例第七條條文修正草案」案；二十一、審查委員黃秀芳等19人擬具「地方民意代表\n費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十二、審查委員鍾佳濱等27\n人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十\n三、審查委員陳瑩等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第五條、第\n六條及第七條條文修正草案」案；二十四、審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等 17 人擬具\n「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十五、審查\n委員陳素月等21人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草\n案」案；二十六、審查委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助\n條例第三條及第六條條文修正草案」案；二十七、審查委員洪申翰等16人擬具「地方民意代表費\n用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十八、審查委員李彥秀等20人\n擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十九、\n審查委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第七條條文修\n正草案」案；三十、審查委員黃建賓等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補\n助條例第六條及第七條條文修正草案」案；三十一、審查委員劉建國等16人擬具「地方民意代表\n費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；三十二、審查委員高金素梅等\n22人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第八條條文修正草案」案；三十\n三、審查委員鄭正鈐等18人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條\n文修正草案」案；三十四、審查委員陳素月等22人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補\n助費補助條例第五條附表修正草案」案；三十五、審查委員陳培瑜等21人擬具「地方民意代表費\n用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；三十六、審查委員王美惠等21人\n擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第七條條文修正草案」案；三十七、\n審查委員王育敏等16人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修\n正草案」案","agenda_id":"1134201_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152349","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152349","tool":"pyannote","id":"152349-pyannote"},"job_id":"Mi0VUBM1P41iWBA5","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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00:00:40,266\n市長,很多委員都關心這樣子一個村里長的相關的費用以及我們民代議員助理的費用我們這邊內政部也提出來行政院的版本我先糾正一下並不是我們現在在討論第9屆就已經有委員提出第10屆也有委員提出那當時的內政部部長或是相關的代表講什麼\n\n3\n00:00:42,757 --> 00:01:00,196\n那個時候都講說地方財政困難都講說地方各縣市的議會財源不一地方財政困難對村里長地方政府的財源不一也是對議員的助理所以那個時候都動著不動那現在\n\n4\n00:01:01,497 --> 00:01:10,007\n行政院既然已經有推出版本行政院版的草案議員助理費是從24萬直轄市24萬變30萬縣市議員是從8萬到14萬對嘛是所以你們說直轄市議會每年會增加2億7千多萬縣市議會增加3億8千多萬是那這裁員怎麼來\n\n5\n00:01:26,102 --> 00:01:46,861\n地方政府那坐實了那我又再叫請教一下村里長的部分年終獎金年終慰問金不能講獎金了春節慰問金行政院的版本陳建仁院長那時候也喊出來並且有講說初估會增加5億多元那這裁員怎麼來\n\n6\n00:01:48,001 --> 00:02:11,356\n因為這個都屬於地質法律的這個地方自治委員所以我那一屆就一直講啊現在是中央請客地方買單啊這個也不是中央請客啊這怎麼不是中央請客地方買單我們每一個委員的版本可能有更多那可能有更多的情況下但至少你行政院今天要負責任啊提出來的版本你們既然有行政院版你就應該是行政院要裁員出來不是嗎\n\n7\n00:02:13,217 --> 00:02:29,052\n還是你要有各縣市不一的補助因為本時剛剛聽到很多委員也在請教你啊財源的部分你有講是說看各縣市情況那會不會造成有些縣市有拿到補助有些縣市拿不到補助所以這個為什麼要看縣市的財源的問題財政狀況的問題\n\n8\n00:02:31,034 --> 00:02:52,488\n這不對啊這樣說大小眼啊你們中央怎麼會對各縣市有大小眼之分呢有些縣市的財源是地方政府自己籌措有些縣市的財源是中央補助給地方讓地方去發這樣就變成說中央可以這樣子發錢我看這個縣市感覺比較好還是這個縣市顏色可能會比較相近\n\n9\n00:02:53,208 --> 00:02:59,730\n那會不會又變成藍綠之分?這個不會啊!怎麼不會?那你的標準是什麼?你的標準是什麼?因為等一下主席也宣布說我們下午可能會有主條討論啊那你在主條討論的時候一定要告訴我們清楚明白講說我們的這個財源怎麼來以及你的機制是什麼啊?是\n\n10\n00:03:14,551 --> 00:03:35,632\n我想這個都有一個固定的機制現在我要報告的就是說在地方制度法跟財務法的規定那這些都屬於地方的自治事項那這些相關的預算就由地方來編類那如果假設你的財政比較困窮呢我們就另外一個機制收支插短來補貼如果說趙市長你剛剛講法的話那你之前第9屆第10屆黨籍就沒有意義啦\n\n11\n00:03:37,814 --> 00:04:04,084\n你之前第9屆第10屆如果說你可以講是說啊這都是地方我們尊重地方那第9屆的時候委員也好議員也好大家都有提出來為什麼那時候你們要打你那麼說講是說就是地方財政困難你們考慮地方的標準所以說你們不願意讓他過那你現在讓他過你現在提出來行政院的版本之後你告訴大家那你們自己畫的這一個部分\n\n12\n00:04:05,485 --> 00:04:20,749\n年終會問金5萬乘以1.5個月那是比照我們公務員的這個1.5個月嘛對不對參考嘛那你參考這部分結果你這財源還是一樣要地方政府籌編那這樣之前你們黨的意義是什麼\n\n13\n00:04:21,721 --> 00:04:42,621\n以前也不是黨啊以前你跟我們考量的地方財政關係這幾天的財政狀況有改善啊我先來讓你我不要扣你帽子但是我先告訴你啦說實在話第9屆第10屆各黨團都提出版本啊就只有行政院一直沒有提出版本所以說大家會覺得卡就卡在行政部門嘛\n\n14\n00:04:43,666 --> 00:05:05,980\n那你現在我都不講說政治考量喔我都不講是說內政部長跑到地方的實查活動然後突然間宣佈了大家如果說聖誕老公公來了要發紅包了就不是啊你只是講的是說我們中央願意通過有春節慰問金有議員的薪水提高那裁員怎麼來你們自己去想辦法\n\n15\n00:05:07,743 --> 00:05:08,023\n主席\n\n16\n00:05:25,570 --> 00:05:46,443\n當初的考量為什麼會沒通不是因為黨的關係我相信這個東西這個議題是一個比較嚴肅的議題當然是嚴肅的議題就是因為是嚴肅的議題所以我們才不要政治思維來想所以我們才會覺得說奇怪怎麼會內政部部長上任了一年多的時間這都沒有處理到要卸任了520了而且\n\n17\n00:05:48,004 --> 00:06:11,174\n看開名單一看新娘不是我了內政部部長已經有新的人選出來了賴清德總統已經指派新的人選了我才用地方的行程去講說那我們要來通過那這樣子會讓大家覺得奇怪所以我們才會講你既然你今天要負責任提出行政院版我肯定有提出行政院版的負責\n\n18\n00:06:11,934 --> 00:06:40,261\n那你提出行政院版你要負責任連同裁員一起提出啊而不是說你的行政院版我今天沒有講說委員的版本你都要有裁員哦委員的版本有更高的大家會爭相24萬不夠我要48萬我要多少錢那當然提出這個版本可能行政部門中央還要這些算算盤但你至少你行政院的版本裡面你們就要有裁員啊而不是你們行政院版本出來你還是要讓地方付錢啊\n\n19\n00:06:41,181 --> 00:06:47,546\n不是這樣嗎?那為什麼你要審查?你們過去一直強調過去一直講說地方財源困難然後各縣市議會財源不易所以說你們不願意放不是嗎?市長\n\n20\n00:07:03,615 --> 00:07:19,451\n等一下主條都這個這個這個問題非常嚴重而且這個是中央負責的態度如果說今天中央只通過但是你沒有準備裁員那很抱歉你們就玩假的而且這樣就真的坐實了中央請客地方買單\n\n21\n00:07:20,902 --> 00:07:44,878\n我覺得這絕對不是我們應該要推動的村里長很辛苦我們大家都認同地方議員的助理很辛苦也因為這過去20幾年都沒有調漲所以大家都希望調漲但是既然中央提出來這樣的版本你們就應該要負責裁員啊這才是負責任的做法啊我想這個案子等一下主條的時候我也請求主席一定要讓次長這邊報告到底你們現在規劃的裁員是什麼\n\n22\n00:07:45,518 --> 00:07:46,059\n謝謝洪孟楷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8496\t9277\t主席謝謝麻煩請次長好請次長\n15407\t40266\t市長,很多委員都關心這樣子一個村里長的相關的費用以及我們民代議員助理的費用我們這邊內政部也提出來行政院的版本我先糾正一下並不是我們現在在討論第9屆就已經有委員提出第10屆也有委員提出那當時的內政部部長或是相關的代表講什麼\n42757\t60196\t那個時候都講說地方財政困難都講說地方各縣市的議會財源不一地方財政困難對村里長地方政府的財源不一也是對議員的助理所以那個時候都動著不動那現在\n61497\t70007\t行政院既然已經有推出版本行政院版的草案議員助理費是從24萬直轄市24萬變30萬縣市議員是從8萬到14萬對嘛是所以你們說直轄市議會每年會增加2億7千多萬縣市議會增加3億8千多萬是那這裁員怎麼來\n86102\t106861\t地方政府那坐實了那我又再叫請教一下村里長的部分年終獎金年終慰問金不能講獎金了春節慰問金行政院的版本陳建仁院長那時候也喊出來並且有講說初估會增加5億多元那這裁員怎麼來\n108001\t131356\t因為這個都屬於地質法律的這個地方自治委員所以我那一屆就一直講啊現在是中央請客地方買單啊這個也不是中央請客啊這怎麼不是中央請客地方買單我們每一個委員的版本可能有更多那可能有更多的情況下但至少你行政院今天要負責任啊提出來的版本你們既然有行政院版你就應該是行政院要裁員出來不是嗎\n133217\t149052\t還是你要有各縣市不一的補助因為本時剛剛聽到很多委員也在請教你啊財源的部分你有講是說看各縣市情況那會不會造成有些縣市有拿到補助有些縣市拿不到補助所以這個為什麼要看縣市的財源的問題財政狀況的問題\n151034\t172488\t這不對啊 這樣說大小眼啊 你們中央怎麼會對各縣市有大小眼之分呢 有些縣市的財源是地方政府自己籌措 有些縣市的財源是中央補助給地方 讓地方去發 這樣就變成說中央可以這樣子發錢 我看這個縣市感覺比較好 還是這個縣市顏色可能會比較相近\n173208\t179730\t那會不會又變成藍綠之分?這個不會啊!怎麼不會?那你的標準是什麼?你的標準是什麼?因為等一下主席也宣布說我們下午可能會有主條討論啊那你在主條討論的時候一定要告訴我們清楚明白講說我們的這個財源怎麼來以及你的機制是什麼啊?是\n194551\t215632\t我想這個都有一個固定的機制現在我要報告的就是說在地方制度法跟財務法的規定那這些都屬於地方的自治事項那這些相關的預算就由地方來編類那如果假設你的財政比較困窮呢我們就另外一個機制收支插短來補貼如果說趙市長你剛剛講法的話那你之前第9屆第10屆黨籍就沒有意義啦\n217814\t244084\t你之前第9屆第10屆如果說你可以講是說啊這都是地方我們尊重地方那第9屆的時候委員也好議員也好大家都有提出來為什麼那時候你們要打你那麼說講是說就是地方財政困難你們考慮地方的標準所以說你們不願意讓他過那你現在讓他過你現在提出來行政院的版本之後你告訴大家那你們自己畫的這一個部分\n245485\t260749\t年終會問金5萬乘以1.5個月那是比照我們公務員的這個1.5個月嘛對不對參考嘛那你參考這部分結果你這財源還是一樣要地方政府籌編那這樣之前你們黨的意義是什麼\n261721\t282621\t以前也不是黨啊以前你跟我們考量的地方財政關係這幾天的財政狀況有改善啊我先來讓你我不要扣你帽子但是我先告訴你啦說實在話第9屆第10屆各黨團都提出版本啊就只有行政院一直沒有提出版本所以說大家會覺得卡就卡在行政部門嘛\n283666\t305980\t那你現在我都不講說政治考量喔我都不講是說內政部長跑到地方的實查活動然後突然間宣佈了大家如果說聖誕老公公來了要發紅包了就不是啊你只是講的是說我們中央願意通過有春節慰問金有議員的薪水提高那裁員怎麼來你們自己去想辦法\n307743\t308023\t主席\n325570\t346443\t當初的考量為什麼會沒通不是因為黨的關係我相信這個東西這個議題是一個比較嚴肅的議題當然是嚴肅的議題就是因為是嚴肅的議題所以我們才不要政治思維來想所以我們才會覺得說奇怪怎麼會內政部部長上任了一年多的時間這都沒有處理到要卸任了520了而且\n348004\t371174\t看開名單一看新娘不是我了內政部部長已經有新的人選出來了賴清德總統已經指派新的人選了我才用地方的行程去講說那我們要來通過那這樣子會讓大家覺得奇怪所以我們才會講你既然你今天要負責任提出行政院版我肯定有提出行政院版的負責\n371934\t400261\t那你提出行政院版你要負責任連同裁員一起提出啊而不是說你的行政院版我今天沒有講說委員的版本你都要有裁員哦委員的版本有更高的大家會爭相24萬不夠我要48萬我要多少錢那當然提出這個版本可能行政部門中央還要這些算算盤但你至少你行政院的版本裡面你們就要有裁員啊而不是你們行政院版本出來你還是要讓地方付錢啊\n401181\t407546\t不是這樣嗎?那為什麼你要審查?你們過去一直強調 過去一直講說地方財源困難然後各縣市議會財源不易 所以說你們不願意放不是嗎?市長\n423615\t439451\t等一下主條都這個這個這個問題非常嚴重而且這個是中央負責的態度如果說今天中央只通過但是你沒有準備裁員那很抱歉你們就玩假的而且這樣就真的坐實了中央請客地方買單\n440902\t464878\t我覺得這絕對不是我們應該要推動的村里長很辛苦我們大家都認同地方議員的助理很辛苦也因為這過去20幾年都沒有調漲所以大家都希望調漲但是既然中央提出來這樣的版本你們就應該要負責裁員啊這才是負責任的做法啊我想這個案子等一下主條的時候我也請求主席一定要讓次長這邊報告到底你們現在規劃的裁員是什麼\n465518\t466059\t謝謝洪孟楷委員\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請次長好請次長\n市長,很多委員都關心這樣子一個村里長的相關的費用以及我們民代議員助理的費用我們這邊內政部也提出來行政院的版本我先糾正一下並不是我們現在在討論第9屆就已經有委員提出第10屆也有委員提出那當時的內政部部長或是相關的代表講什麼\n那個時候都講說地方財政困難都講說地方各縣市的議會財源不一地方財政困難對村里長地方政府的財源不一也是對議員的助理所以那個時候都動著不動那現在\n行政院既然已經有推出版本行政院版的草案議員助理費是從24萬直轄市24萬變30萬縣市議員是從8萬到14萬對嘛是所以你們說直轄市議會每年會增加2億7千多萬縣市議會增加3億8千多萬是那這裁員怎麼來\n地方政府那坐實了那我又再叫請教一下村里長的部分年終獎金年終慰問金不能講獎金了春節慰問金行政院的版本陳建仁院長那時候也喊出來並且有講說初估會增加5億多元那這裁員怎麼來\n因為這個都屬於地質法律的這個地方自治委員所以我那一屆就一直講啊現在是中央請客地方買單啊這個也不是中央請客啊這怎麼不是中央請客地方買單我們每一個委員的版本可能有更多那可能有更多的情況下但至少你行政院今天要負責任啊提出來的版本你們既然有行政院版你就應該是行政院要裁員出來不是嗎\n還是你要有各縣市不一的補助因為本時剛剛聽到很多委員也在請教你啊財源的部分你有講是說看各縣市情況那會不會造成有些縣市有拿到補助有些縣市拿不到補助所以這個為什麼要看縣市的財源的問題財政狀況的問題\n這不對啊 這樣說大小眼啊 你們中央怎麼會對各縣市有大小眼之分呢 有些縣市的財源是地方政府自己籌措 有些縣市的財源是中央補助給地方 讓地方去發 這樣就變成說中央可以這樣子發錢 我看這個縣市感覺比較好 還是這個縣市顏色可能會比較相近\n那會不會又變成藍綠之分?這個不會啊!怎麼不會?那你的標準是什麼?你的標準是什麼?因為等一下主席也宣布說我們下午可能會有主條討論啊那你在主條討論的時候一定要告訴我們清楚明白講說我們的這個財源怎麼來以及你的機制是什麼啊?是\n我想這個都有一個固定的機制現在我要報告的就是說在地方制度法跟財務法的規定那這些都屬於地方的自治事項那這些相關的預算就由地方來編類那如果假設你的財政比較困窮呢我們就另外一個機制收支插短來補貼如果說趙市長你剛剛講法的話那你之前第9屆第10屆黨籍就沒有意義啦\n你之前第9屆第10屆如果說你可以講是說啊這都是地方我們尊重地方那第9屆的時候委員也好議員也好大家都有提出來為什麼那時候你們要打你那麼說講是說就是地方財政困難你們考慮地方的標準所以說你們不願意讓他過那你現在讓他過你現在提出來行政院的版本之後你告訴大家那你們自己畫的這一個部分\n年終會問金5萬乘以1.5個月那是比照我們公務員的這個1.5個月嘛對不對參考嘛那你參考這部分結果你這財源還是一樣要地方政府籌編那這樣之前你們黨的意義是什麼\n以前也不是黨啊以前你跟我們考量的地方財政關係這幾天的財政狀況有改善啊我先來讓你我不要扣你帽子但是我先告訴你啦說實在話第9屆第10屆各黨團都提出版本啊就只有行政院一直沒有提出版本所以說大家會覺得卡就卡在行政部門嘛\n那你現在我都不講說政治考量喔我都不講是說內政部長跑到地方的實查活動然後突然間宣佈了大家如果說聖誕老公公來了要發紅包了就不是啊你只是講的是說我們中央願意通過有春節慰問金有議員的薪水提高那裁員怎麼來你們自己去想辦法\n主席\n當初的考量為什麼會沒通不是因為黨的關係我相信這個東西這個議題是一個比較嚴肅的議題當然是嚴肅的議題就是因為是嚴肅的議題所以我們才不要政治思維來想所以我們才會覺得說奇怪怎麼會內政部部長上任了一年多的時間這都沒有處理到要卸任了520了而且\n看開名單一看新娘不是我了內政部部長已經有新的人選出來了賴清德總統已經指派新的人選了我才用地方的行程去講說那我們要來通過那這樣子會讓大家覺得奇怪所以我們才會講你既然你今天要負責任提出行政院版我肯定有提出行政院版的負責\n那你提出行政院版你要負責任連同裁員一起提出啊而不是說你的行政院版我今天沒有講說委員的版本你都要有裁員哦委員的版本有更高的大家會爭相24萬不夠我要48萬我要多少錢那當然提出這個版本可能行政部門中央還要這些算算盤但你至少你行政院的版本裡面你們就要有裁員啊而不是你們行政院版本出來你還是要讓地方付錢啊\n不是這樣嗎?那為什麼你要審查?你們過去一直強調 過去一直講說地方財源困難然後各縣市議會財源不易 所以說你們不願意放不是嗎?市長\n等一下主條都這個這個這個問題非常嚴重而且這個是中央負責的態度如果說今天中央只通過但是你沒有準備裁員那很抱歉你們就玩假的而且這樣就真的坐實了中央請客地方買單\n我覺得這絕對不是我們應該要推動的村里長很辛苦我們大家都認同地方議員的助理很辛苦也因為這過去20幾年都沒有調漲所以大家都希望調漲但是既然中央提出來這樣的版本你們就應該要負責裁員啊這才是負責任的做法啊我想這個案子等一下主條的時候我也請求主席一定要讓次長這邊報告到底你們現在規劃的裁員是什麼\n謝謝洪孟楷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.496 --> 00:09.277\n主席謝謝麻煩請次長好請次長\n\n00:15.407 --> 00:40.266\n市長,很多委員都關心這樣子一個村里長的相關的費用以及我們民代議員助理的費用我們這邊內政部也提出來行政院的版本我先糾正一下並不是我們現在在討論第9屆就已經有委員提出第10屆也有委員提出那當時的內政部部長或是相關的代表講什麼\n\n00:42.757 --> 01:00.196\n那個時候都講說地方財政困難都講說地方各縣市的議會財源不一地方財政困難對村里長地方政府的財源不一也是對議員的助理所以那個時候都動著不動那現在\n\n01:01.497 --> 01:10.007\n行政院既然已經有推出版本行政院版的草案議員助理費是從24萬直轄市24萬變30萬縣市議員是從8萬到14萬對嘛是所以你們說直轄市議會每年會增加2億7千多萬縣市議會增加3億8千多萬是那這裁員怎麼來\n\n01:26.102 --> 01:46.861\n地方政府那坐實了那我又再叫請教一下村里長的部分年終獎金年終慰問金不能講獎金了春節慰問金行政院的版本陳建仁院長那時候也喊出來並且有講說初估會增加5億多元那這裁員怎麼來\n\n01:48.001 --> 02:11.356\n因為這個都屬於地質法律的這個地方自治委員所以我那一屆就一直講啊現在是中央請客地方買單啊這個也不是中央請客啊這怎麼不是中央請客地方買單我們每一個委員的版本可能有更多那可能有更多的情況下但至少你行政院今天要負責任啊提出來的版本你們既然有行政院版你就應該是行政院要裁員出來不是嗎\n\n02:13.217 --> 02:29.052\n還是你要有各縣市不一的補助因為本時剛剛聽到很多委員也在請教你啊財源的部分你有講是說看各縣市情況那會不會造成有些縣市有拿到補助有些縣市拿不到補助所以這個為什麼要看縣市的財源的問題財政狀況的問題\n\n02:31.034 --> 02:52.488\n這不對啊這樣說大小眼啊你們中央怎麼會對各縣市有大小眼之分呢有些縣市的財源是地方政府自己籌措有些縣市的財源是中央補助給地方讓地方去發這樣就變成說中央可以這樣子發錢我看這個縣市感覺比較好還是這個縣市顏色可能會比較相近\n\n02:53.208 --> 02:59.730\n那會不會又變成藍綠之分?這個不會啊!怎麼不會?那你的標準是什麼?你的標準是什麼?因為等一下主席也宣布說我們下午可能會有主條討論啊那你在主條討論的時候一定要告訴我們清楚明白講說我們的這個財源怎麼來以及你的機制是什麼啊?是\n\n03:14.551 --> 03:35.632\n我想這個都有一個固定的機制現在我要報告的就是說在地方制度法跟財務法的規定那這些都屬於地方的自治事項那這些相關的預算就由地方來編類那如果假設你的財政比較困窮呢我們就另外一個機制收支插短來補貼如果說趙市長你剛剛講法的話那你之前第9屆第10屆黨籍就沒有意義啦\n\n03:37.814 --> 04:04.084\n你之前第9屆第10屆如果說你可以講是說啊這都是地方我們尊重地方那第9屆的時候委員也好議員也好大家都有提出來為什麼那時候你們要打你那麼說講是說就是地方財政困難你們考慮地方的標準所以說你們不願意讓他過那你現在讓他過你現在提出來行政院的版本之後你告訴大家那你們自己畫的這一個部分\n\n04:05.485 --> 04:20.749\n年終會問金5萬乘以1.5個月那是比照我們公務員的這個1.5個月嘛對不對參考嘛那你參考這部分結果你這財源還是一樣要地方政府籌編那這樣之前你們黨的意義是什麼\n\n04:21.721 --> 04:42.621\n以前也不是黨啊以前你跟我們考量的地方財政關係這幾天的財政狀況有改善啊我先來讓你我不要扣你帽子但是我先告訴你啦說實在話第9屆第10屆各黨團都提出版本啊就只有行政院一直沒有提出版本所以說大家會覺得卡就卡在行政部門嘛\n\n04:43.666 --> 05:05.980\n那你現在我都不講說政治考量喔我都不講是說內政部長跑到地方的實查活動然後突然間宣佈了大家如果說聖誕老公公來了要發紅包了就不是啊你只是講的是說我們中央願意通過有春節慰問金有議員的薪水提高那裁員怎麼來你們自己去想辦法\n\n05:07.743 --> 05:08.023\n主席\n\n05:25.570 --> 05:46.443\n當初的考量為什麼會沒通不是因為黨的關係我相信這個東西這個議題是一個比較嚴肅的議題當然是嚴肅的議題就是因為是嚴肅的議題所以我們才不要政治思維來想所以我們才會覺得說奇怪怎麼會內政部部長上任了一年多的時間這都沒有處理到要卸任了520了而且\n\n05:48.004 --> 06:11.174\n看開名單一看新娘不是我了內政部部長已經有新的人選出來了賴清德總統已經指派新的人選了我才用地方的行程去講說那我們要來通過那這樣子會讓大家覺得奇怪所以我們才會講你既然你今天要負責任提出行政院版我肯定有提出行政院版的負責\n\n06:11.934 --> 06:40.261\n那你提出行政院版你要負責任連同裁員一起提出啊而不是說你的行政院版我今天沒有講說委員的版本你都要有裁員哦委員的版本有更高的大家會爭相24萬不夠我要48萬我要多少錢那當然提出這個版本可能行政部門中央還要這些算算盤但你至少你行政院的版本裡面你們就要有裁員啊而不是你們行政院版本出來你還是要讓地方付錢啊\n\n06:41.181 --> 06:47.546\n不是這樣嗎?那為什麼你要審查?你們過去一直強調過去一直講說地方財源困難然後各縣市議會財源不易所以說你們不願意放不是嗎?市長\n\n07:03.615 --> 07:19.451\n等一下主條都這個這個這個問題非常嚴重而且這個是中央負責的態度如果說今天中央只通過但是你沒有準備裁員那很抱歉你們就玩假的而且這樣就真的坐實了中央請客地方買單\n\n07:20.902 --> 07:44.878\n我覺得這絕對不是我們應該要推動的村里長很辛苦我們大家都認同地方議員的助理很辛苦也因為這過去20幾年都沒有調漲所以大家都希望調漲但是既然中央提出來這樣的版本你們就應該要負責裁員啊這才是負責任的做法啊我想這個案子等一下主條的時候我也請求主席一定要讓次長這邊報告到底你們現在規劃的裁員是什麼\n\n07:45.518 --> 07:46.059\n謝謝洪孟楷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.496,"end":9.277,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請次長好請次長"},{"start":15.407,"end":40.266,"text":"市長,很多委員都關心這樣子一個村里長的相關的費用以及我們民代議員助理的費用我們這邊內政部也提出來行政院的版本我先糾正一下並不是我們現在在討論第9屆就已經有委員提出第10屆也有委員提出那當時的內政部部長或是相關的代表講什麼"},{"start":42.757,"end":60.196,"text":"那個時候都講說地方財政困難都講說地方各縣市的議會財源不一地方財政困難對村里長地方政府的財源不一也是對議員的助理所以那個時候都動著不動那現在"},{"start":61.497,"end":70.007,"text":"行政院既然已經有推出版本行政院版的草案議員助理費是從24萬直轄市24萬變30萬縣市議員是從8萬到14萬對嘛是所以你們說直轄市議會每年會增加2億7千多萬縣市議會增加3億8千多萬是那這裁員怎麼來"},{"start":86.102,"end":106.861,"text":"地方政府那坐實了那我又再叫請教一下村里長的部分年終獎金年終慰問金不能講獎金了春節慰問金行政院的版本陳建仁院長那時候也喊出來並且有講說初估會增加5億多元那這裁員怎麼來"},{"start":108.001,"end":131.356,"text":"因為這個都屬於地質法律的這個地方自治委員所以我那一屆就一直講啊現在是中央請客地方買單啊這個也不是中央請客啊這怎麼不是中央請客地方買單我們每一個委員的版本可能有更多那可能有更多的情況下但至少你行政院今天要負責任啊提出來的版本你們既然有行政院版你就應該是行政院要裁員出來不是嗎"},{"start":133.217,"end":149.052,"text":"還是你要有各縣市不一的補助因為本時剛剛聽到很多委員也在請教你啊財源的部分你有講是說看各縣市情況那會不會造成有些縣市有拿到補助有些縣市拿不到補助所以這個為什麼要看縣市的財源的問題財政狀況的問題"},{"start":151.034,"end":172.488,"text":"這不對啊 這樣說大小眼啊 你們中央怎麼會對各縣市有大小眼之分呢 有些縣市的財源是地方政府自己籌措 有些縣市的財源是中央補助給地方 讓地方去發 這樣就變成說中央可以這樣子發錢 我看這個縣市感覺比較好 還是這個縣市顏色可能會比較相近"},{"start":173.208,"end":179.73,"text":"那會不會又變成藍綠之分?這個不會啊!怎麼不會?那你的標準是什麼?你的標準是什麼?因為等一下主席也宣布說我們下午可能會有主條討論啊那你在主條討論的時候一定要告訴我們清楚明白講說我們的這個財源怎麼來以及你的機制是什麼啊?是"},{"start":194.551,"end":215.632,"text":"我想這個都有一個固定的機制現在我要報告的就是說在地方制度法跟財務法的規定那這些都屬於地方的自治事項那這些相關的預算就由地方來編類那如果假設你的財政比較困窮呢我們就另外一個機制收支插短來補貼如果說趙市長你剛剛講法的話那你之前第9屆第10屆黨籍就沒有意義啦"},{"start":217.814,"end":244.084,"text":"你之前第9屆第10屆如果說你可以講是說啊這都是地方我們尊重地方那第9屆的時候委員也好議員也好大家都有提出來為什麼那時候你們要打你那麼說講是說就是地方財政困難你們考慮地方的標準所以說你們不願意讓他過那你現在讓他過你現在提出來行政院的版本之後你告訴大家那你們自己畫的這一個部分"},{"start":245.485,"end":260.749,"text":"年終會問金5萬乘以1.5個月那是比照我們公務員的這個1.5個月嘛對不對參考嘛那你參考這部分結果你這財源還是一樣要地方政府籌編那這樣之前你們黨的意義是什麼"},{"start":261.721,"end":282.621,"text":"以前也不是黨啊以前你跟我們考量的地方財政關係這幾天的財政狀況有改善啊我先來讓你我不要扣你帽子但是我先告訴你啦說實在話第9屆第10屆各黨團都提出版本啊就只有行政院一直沒有提出版本所以說大家會覺得卡就卡在行政部門嘛"},{"start":283.666,"end":305.98,"text":"那你現在我都不講說政治考量喔我都不講是說內政部長跑到地方的實查活動然後突然間宣佈了大家如果說聖誕老公公來了要發紅包了就不是啊你只是講的是說我們中央願意通過有春節慰問金有議員的薪水提高那裁員怎麼來你們自己去想辦法"},{"start":307.743,"end":308.023,"text":"主席"},{"start":325.57,"end":346.443,"text":"當初的考量為什麼會沒通不是因為黨的關係我相信這個東西這個議題是一個比較嚴肅的議題當然是嚴肅的議題就是因為是嚴肅的議題所以我們才不要政治思維來想所以我們才會覺得說奇怪怎麼會內政部部長上任了一年多的時間這都沒有處理到要卸任了520了而且"},{"start":348.004,"end":371.174,"text":"看開名單一看新娘不是我了內政部部長已經有新的人選出來了賴清德總統已經指派新的人選了我才用地方的行程去講說那我們要來通過那這樣子會讓大家覺得奇怪所以我們才會講你既然你今天要負責任提出行政院版我肯定有提出行政院版的負責"},{"start":371.934,"end":400.261,"text":"那你提出行政院版你要負責任連同裁員一起提出啊而不是說你的行政院版我今天沒有講說委員的版本你都要有裁員哦委員的版本有更高的大家會爭相24萬不夠我要48萬我要多少錢那當然提出這個版本可能行政部門中央還要這些算算盤但你至少你行政院的版本裡面你們就要有裁員啊而不是你們行政院版本出來你還是要讓地方付錢啊"},{"start":401.181,"end":407.546,"text":"不是這樣嗎?那為什麼你要審查?你們過去一直強調 過去一直講說地方財源困難然後各縣市議會財源不易 所以說你們不願意放不是嗎?市長"},{"start":423.615,"end":439.451,"text":"等一下主條都這個這個這個問題非常嚴重而且這個是中央負責的態度如果說今天中央只通過但是你沒有準備裁員那很抱歉你們就玩假的而且這樣就真的坐實了中央請客地方買單"},{"start":440.902,"end":464.878,"text":"我覺得這絕對不是我們應該要推動的村里長很辛苦我們大家都認同地方議員的助理很辛苦也因為這過去20幾年都沒有調漲所以大家都希望調漲但是既然中央提出來這樣的版本你們就應該要負責裁員啊這才是負責任的做法啊我想這個案子等一下主條的時候我也請求主席一定要讓次長這邊報告到底你們現在規劃的裁員是什麼"},{"start":465.518,"end":466.059,"text":"謝謝洪孟楷委員"}]}}}}