{"id":152353,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152353","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9fa9bc2102b9cf710efcf90fe85fbe8d827cef00f012e52e36499d1b681a2ac70650c22a74c080455ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"13:51:21 - 13:59:49","影片長度":"00:08:28","會議時間":"2024-05-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例」修正草案等37案，詳見議事日程。\n【5月8日及9日兩天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-08","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-17"},"duration":508,"end_time":"2024-05-08T13:59:49+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-08T13:51:21+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1001,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（13時51分）謝謝主席，有請次長。"],["主席：請吳次長。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["劉委員建國：次長，這次民代支薪條例要修正，從現在算起、往前推，這個法律差不多多久沒有修正過了？"],["吳次長容輝：89年開始施行到現在大概24年了。"],["劉委員建國：對，就是2000年的時候，對不對？2000年的時候我剛好時任地方的市民代表，所以今天早上我有特別的感謝部長和召委把這個案子排進來，讓大家可以充分的討論來突顯一些問題，但是可想而知，2000年時民代支薪條例的修正是很大幅度的變動，但是次長知道是怎麼變動嗎？針對哪幾個部分有大幅度的變動？"],["吳次長容輝：委員是講這次嘛！"],["劉委員建國：沒有，2000年的時候，就是89年。"],["吳次長容輝：2000年、89年的時候，這部分我是不是可以請代理司長回答？"],["劉委員建國：誰可以講一下？怎麼樣的變動？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：89年主要是法制化，以前各地方的規定都不一致，所以民代支給條例把各地方都一致化，主要是這個部分。"],["劉委員建國：主要只有這樣而已嗎？不止哦！"],["鄭代理司長英弘：當然經費的部分有一些調整，譬如說縣市議員的部分原來各地方都不一致，目前是規定助理的補助費是8萬元，這個金額比當初各縣市在省的時代還要高。"],["劉委員建國：就這樣？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：市議員的部分也有調增。"],["劉委員建國：對，但是你知道鄉鎮市民代表是怎麼調整嗎？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：也是把它一致化。"],["劉委員建國：基本上，一致化應該不叫做「大幅的調整」，我講的是大幅的調整，對不對？你知道還沒有修正前，鄉鎮市民代表的研修費是多少嗎？修正完後又是領多少？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：目前我手上並沒有這方面的數據。"],["劉委員建國：如果說原有是「1」，後來變成「2」或「3」，這樣變動幅度是不是很大？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：是。"],["劉委員建國：那個時候鄉鎮市民代表是領1萬9,470元，修正完之後變成4萬9,470元，這樣變化大不大？非常大嘛！對不對？好，村里長的事務費全國統一，這也是那時候做了相關的調整，這些變動幅度都很大，我要把相關的歷史脈絡都再講一次。","最近幾年，就是這次還沒有修正之前，我們針對村里長的事務費也有酌加5,000元，對不對？好，這2次都是在民進黨執政的任內，為什麼我們要做這些事情？就以今天內政部提出來的，包含直轄縣市、一般縣市的助理費用要調高，這是其一嘛！對不對？還有為民服務費，我們也要做相關的調高，這在在都是考量現今的狀況，基本上，助理為了議員，包括我們的助理為委員做事情，其實它真正的目的還是為民服務，所以今天我們看到不合理的狀況，我們要做相關的調整，這個我要特別的感謝內政部。不過，這個調整的幅度似乎還有滿大的討論空間，原本直轄市議員的助理費是24萬元，內政部的版本是提高到30萬元。一般縣市議員的助理費是多少？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：8萬元。"],["吳次長容輝：8萬元。"],["劉委員建國：好，我們現在要把它調高變成14萬元，對不對？原本是差了3倍，24：8，就是1：3，現在變成1：2，應該是不到1：2，你們覺得這樣的調整是正確的嗎？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，我們做這樣的調整也是參考過其他的因素後設算的，包括人數的變動，上設上限、規定下限，這個大家一起來做通盤的檢討。"],["劉委員建國：次長，你們是根據什麼樣的變動去做這樣的調整？我覺得過去的狀況就已經很奇怪、不合理，怎麼會直轄市是24萬元，一般縣市就只有8萬元？現在你們又是根據什麼去把它調整到30萬元，然後一般縣市是14萬元？"],["吳次長容輝：我們一般是考量到需要聘僱的人數，這是一個。另外一個，直轄市和地方的薪資水準等等這些，我們都會考量。但是還有一個因素，當然我們也要考慮到地方的財政，大概這些因素都會考量在內。"],["劉委員建國：不對、不對、不對，難道過去沒有考慮到地方的財政？這一定有嘛！對不對？"],["吳次長容輝：是啊！都會有。"],["劉委員建國：那為什麼過去是1：3，現在是1：2？為什麼不能再高一點？就讓它真正的1：2。"],["吳次長容輝：這個時間上，因為民國幾十年前直轄市的薪資水準跟現在不太一樣。"],["劉委員建國：我的時間到了，沒關係，這有很多細節，我們再討論。另外，內政部還有一個修法版本，就是55個原住民區多有幅員較大，基於該村里受限於地理環境因素，服務居民需要耗費更多的交通時間在內的相關成本，所以你們針對原住民地區之鄉鎮及直轄市的原住民區，其村里長事務費每月再增加10%，對不對？這是根據什麼？"],["吳次長容輝：主要當然是考量到原住民區的幅員比較大，交通也比較不便，不像我們這些區域交通比較方便。另外，居住在山區的大多是散居，所以你要服務一個人可能要跑的距離就遠一點。"],["劉委員建國：對啊！那為什麼只針對原住民區，像一般縣市，我就簡單的講古坑鄉草嶺村，你知不知道那個幅員有多大嗎？偏遠或是偏鄉或是過去內政部所認定的一般貧瘠鄉鎮，其實那些村里長要照顧的幅員也不亞於原住民區，這個為什麼沒有納入參考？而且現在因為長照，所以村里長還要辦理長照知能認證和相關的授證，我要表達的是，既然你們可以看到這一塊，那為什麼另外那一塊你們沒有看到？如果你要做這樣的根據，我是提醒，連一般鄉鎮、幅員廣大的、偏遠的，你們也要把它納入到這次的討論裡，這樣才有道理。我剛剛是用議員的助理來比喻給你聽，這個也是你們內政部自己的提案，你們不能單純的只從原住民區去做修正和思考，要嘛！就全部一視同仁，只是要幅員廣大的，參照你們自己的提案內容，比例上都一樣就應該要比照辦理，我覺得這樣才有道理。"],["吳次長容輝：是，有一些非原民區的部分，當然有些是因為屬於比較偏遠，不過這還是要看每一個地方，因為每一個區域特性都不太一樣。"],["劉委員建國：是啊！那你們有看嗎？你們有去盤點嗎？你們有去調查嗎？我隨便找幾個鄉鎮來對比原住民區，你們現在每個月要增加他們10%的事務費。"],["吳次長容輝：如果要討論到這個，那可能就要比照有些單位去界定和定義偏遠地區，因為有些偏遠地區可能跟原住民區是一樣的。"],["劉委員建國：不是、不是、不是。"],["吳次長容輝：它的幅員或是散居是一樣的。"],["劉委員建國：對啦！我是給次長做一個參考，因為我的時間到了，好不好？我是覺得這個範圍、就是幅員廣大的這個部分，原住民的部分你們增加10%的事務費，其他地區你們不給他們，我覺得這會為德不卒，好不好？謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["吳次長容輝：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝劉建國委員的發言。","下一位羅智強委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-17","speakers":["吳琪銘","楊瓊瓔","徐欣瑩","王美惠","盧縣一","黃捷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","高金素梅","許宇甄","李柏毅","呂玉玲","王育敏","李彥秀","徐巧芯","蔡易餘","劉建國","黃建賓","鄭正鈐","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","張宏陸","牛煦庭","張智倫","丁學忠","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鍾佳濱","羅智強","黃珊珊","邱鎮軍","邱志偉","張嘉郡","黃仁","范雲","吳思瑤"],"page_start":69,"meetingDate":["2024-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1134201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條\n文修正草案」案；二、審查委員黃捷等22人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補\n助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村\n里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等19人擬具\n「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例部分條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員羅\n智強等 25 人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」\n案；六、審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六\n條條文修正草案」案；七、審查委員呂玉玲等19人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補\n助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；八、審查委員吳思瑤等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支\n給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；九、審查委員陳超明等18人擬具「地\n方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例增訂第七條之一條文草案」案；十、審查委員\n李柏毅等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」\n案；十一、審查委員黃健豪等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例增\n訂第七條之一條文草案」案；十二、審查委員徐巧芯等28人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里\n長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；十三、審查委員莊瑞雄等18人擬具「地方民意\n代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；十四、審查委員高金素梅\n等29人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第七條條文修正草案」案；十\n五、審查委員林思銘等26人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條\n文修正草案」案；十六、審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助\n費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；十七、審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具「地方民意代表費用支\n給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條、第七條及第九條條文修正草案」案；十八、審查委員蔡\n易餘等 19 人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」\n案；十九、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六\n條條文修正草案」案；二十、審查委員許宇甄等16人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務\n補助費補助條例第七條條文修正草案」案；二十一、審查委員黃秀芳等19人擬具「地方民意代表\n費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十二、審查委員鍾佳濱等27\n人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十\n三、審查委員陳瑩等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第五條、第\n六條及第七條條文修正草案」案；二十四、審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等 17 人擬具\n「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十五、審查\n委員陳素月等21人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草\n案」案；二十六、審查委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助\n條例第三條及第六條條文修正草案」案；二十七、審查委員洪申翰等16人擬具「地方民意代表費\n用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十八、審查委員李彥秀等20人\n擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二十九、\n審查委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第七條條文修\n正草案」案；三十、審查委員黃建賓等17人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補\n助條例第六條及第七條條文修正草案」案；三十一、審查委員劉建國等16人擬具「地方民意代表\n費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；三十二、審查委員高金素梅等\n22人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第八條條文修正草案」案；三十\n三、審查委員鄭正鈐等18人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條\n文修正草案」案；三十四、審查委員陳素月等22人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補\n助費補助條例第五條附表修正草案」案；三十五、審查委員陳培瑜等21人擬具「地方民意代表費\n用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修正草案」案；三十六、審查委員王美惠等21人\n擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第七條條文修正草案」案；三十七、\n審查委員王育敏等16人擬具「地方民意代表費用支給及村里長事務補助費補助條例第六條條文修\n正草案」案","agenda_id":"1134201_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152353","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152353","tool":"pyannote","id":"152353-pyannote"},"job_id":"32OPTPfROUgNAPEr","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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00:01:07,953\n可想而知在2000年的時候明代資金條例去做這個修正其實是很大幅度的變動那市長知道怎麼變動嗎?針對哪幾個部分有大幅度的變動?委員是講這一次嗎?沒有2000年的時候就是89年嘛2089年的時候我這一部分是不是我們這個好來誰可以講的講一下\n\n4\n00:01:10,288 --> 00:01:34,295\n主要是法治化那以前這個各地方的一個規定大概都不一致所以這個明代自己條例把它各地方都一致化主要是這樣而已嗎那當然那個經費的一個部分有些調整比如說縣市議員的原來各地方不一致那後來目前是有規定助理補助費8萬元這個部分\n\n5\n00:01:35,885 --> 00:01:48,360\n也比當初各縣市在省的時代的部分還高。就這樣?市議員的部分也有調整了。你知道鄉村市民代表怎麼調整嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:53,203 --> 00:02:10,272\n你如果說原有的一致化基本上應該不是叫做大幅調整我講的大幅調整嘛對不對你知道當時的那個還沒有修正過後的鄉村市民代表的那個研究費是多少嗎?修正完之後又是零多少?\n\n7\n00:02:13,100 --> 00:02:26,151\n如果說原有是1後來變成2變成3那是不是變動幅度很大對不對?那個時候的鄉鎮市民代表領的是19470塊啦修正完之後變成49470啦那這樣變化大不大?非常大嘛對不對?好那村里長事務會全國統一嘛齁那也是那時候做了相關的這樣調整嘛\n\n8\n00:02:41,423 --> 00:02:56,973\n這都並不很大事,我想我要把這個歷史的脈絡再講一次。然後在最近幾年,還沒有修這一次之前,最近幾年,我們針對村里長的事務費又有卓加五千,對不對?這兩次都在民進黨執政的任內。那我沒什麼要做這些事情。\n\n9\n00:03:01,345 --> 00:03:27,242\n就請今天內政部提出來包含一般縣市的助理的費用我們要調高這是其一嘛對不對還有衛民服務會我們要做相關的調高那在在都是在考量現今的一些狀況我想助理基本上為議員包括我們的助理為委員來做事情那其實他真正的目的還是衛民服務嘛\n\n10\n00:03:28,365 --> 00:03:43,920\n所以今天我們看到有些不合理的狀況所以我們去做這樣的相關的調整所以我在特別要感謝內政部不過這個調整的弧度好像似乎有蠻大的一些討論空間原有的直轄市的議員的助理是24萬\n\n11\n00:03:46,001 --> 00:04:07,636\n內政部的版本是提高到30萬那一般縣市的議員的助理是多少?8萬那我們現在把它調高變成14萬對不對原因有是差了3倍嘛24比8嘛就1比3嘛那現在是變成1比2不到啦應該是不到啦那你們覺得這樣的調整是正確嗎?\n\n12\n00:04:10,705 --> 00:04:37,808\n報告委員我想我們做這樣的調整也經過參考其他的因素來設算了包括說我們這個人數的這個變動我們刪除上限來規定下限這個大家一起來做這個通販建築市長是根據什麼樣的變動去做這樣的調整我覺得過去就已經很奇怪不合理的一個狀態了怎麼私家市就是24萬一般縣市就是8萬那現在你們是又根據什麼去調到30萬然後一般縣市是4萬\n\n13\n00:04:39,409 --> 00:04:51,289\n一般當然我們會考量到他這個要去併顧的人數這是一個另外就是說這個之下是跟這個地方的這個薪資水準等等這些都會做一個考量\n\n14\n00:04:52,861 --> 00:05:08,721\n但是還有一個因素當然也要考慮到這個地方的財政,大概這些因素都會考量財政。過去,難道過去沒有考慮到地方的財政,也一定會有嘛對不對?過去為什麼是1比3,現在為什麼是1比2,為什麼不能再高一點?\n\n15\n00:05:09,622 --> 00:05:10,984\n該村里受限於地理環境因素服務區需要耗費更多的交通在內的相關成本\n\n16\n00:05:33,527 --> 00:05:43,567\n所以你針對這個原住民地區之鄉鎮及自家市原住民區齁其村里事務會每月再增加百分之十嘛對不對這個是根據什麼\n\n17\n00:05:44,793 --> 00:05:45,414\n為什麼只有針對原住民區?\n\n18\n00:06:05,215 --> 00:06:24,076\n像我們一般縣市的像簡單講我講一個古坑鄉草嶺村你知道那個湖縣有多大嗎?在偏遠或邊鄉還是過去有我們內政部去認定的一般的平起鄉鎮其實那些村里長他要照顧的湖縣也不以為原住民區\n\n19\n00:06:25,557 --> 00:06:54,080\n這個為什麼沒有納入在參考裡面?而且現在的村里長因為有長照所以他們還要辦理什麼長照認知對不起長照資源認證還有相關的一些授證我要表達說你們可以看到這一塊為什麼另外那一塊沒有看到?因為你如果要做這樣的根據嘛我是提醒你連一般的鄉鎮湖遠廣大的偏遠的你要把它納入在這次的討論中\n\n20\n00:06:55,123 --> 00:07:19,106\n才有道理啦我剛剛是用議員的助理來比喻給你聽那我現在這個也是你內政部自己的提案喔那不能只有單純從這一個原住民區去做修正去做思考而已要嘛就全部一次同仁只要是服用廣大參照你們自己的提案的內容比例上都一樣就比照辦理我覺得這樣才有道理啦\n\n21\n00:07:20,643 --> 00:07:44,447\n我想這個有一些非原住民區的部分,有些當然是也屬下比較偏遠,不過這要看每一個地方的區域特性不太一樣。是啊,你們有看了嗎?你們有去盤點嗎?你們有去調查嗎?我隨便都可以找幾個鄉鎮來對比原住民區,你們現在要給他每日增加百分之十的事務費的這樣的一個比例喔。\n\n22\n00:07:46,229 --> 00:07:59,355\n如果要討論到這個可能就是要去比照這個有一些單位會去界定偏遠地區的界定定義有一些比較偏遠可能也跟原住民區是一樣的\n\n23\n00:08:00,322 --> 00:08:01,223\n謝謝劉建國委員的發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5001\t15832\t市長,如果這次修有多久?從現在算起往前推差不多多久沒有修過了?\n24652\t28234\t我剛好時任地方的市民代表所以今天早上的時候我有特別感謝部長還有感謝召委把這個案排進來讓大家有充分討論然後去把一些問題凸顯出來\n44748\t67953\t可想而知在2000年的時候明代資金條例去做這個修正其實是很大幅度的變動那市長知道怎麼變動嗎?針對哪幾個部分有大幅度的變動?委員是講這一次嗎?沒有2000年的時候就是89年嘛2089年的時候我這一部分是不是我們這個好來誰可以講的講一下\n70288\t94295\t主要是法治化那以前這個各地方的一個規定大概都不一致所以這個明代自己條例把它各地方都一致化主要是這樣而已嗎那當然那個經費的一個部分有些調整比如說縣市議員的原來各地方不一致那後來目前是有規定助理補助費8萬元這個部分\n95885\t108360\t也比當初各縣市在省的時代的部分還高。就這樣?市議員的部分也有調整了。你知道鄉村市民代表怎麼調整嗎?\n113203\t130272\t你如果說原有的一致化基本上應該不是叫做大幅調整我講的大幅調整嘛對不對你知道當時的那個還沒有修正過後的鄉村市民代表的那個研究費是多少嗎?修正完之後又是零多少?\n133100\t146151\t如果說原有是1後來變成2變成3那是不是變動幅度很大對不對?那個時候的鄉鎮市民代表領的是19470塊啦修正完之後變成49470啦那這樣變化大不大?非常大嘛對不對?好那村里長事務會全國統一嘛齁那也是那時候做了相關的這樣調整嘛\n161423\t176973\t這都並不很大事,我想我要把這個歷史的脈絡再講一次。然後在最近幾年,還沒有修這一次之前,最近幾年,我們針對村里長的事務費又有卓加五千,對不對?這兩次都在民進黨執政的任內。那我沒什麼要做這些事情。\n181345\t207242\t就請今天內政部提出來包含一般縣市的助理的費用我們要調高這是其一嘛 對不對還有衛民服務會我們要做相關的調高那在在都是在考量現今的一些狀況我想助理基本上為議員包括我們的助理為委員來做事情那其實他真正的目的還是衛民服務嘛\n208365\t223920\t所以今天我們看到有些不合理的狀況所以我們去做這樣的相關的調整所以我在特別要感謝內政部不過這個調整的弧度好像似乎有蠻大的一些討論空間原有的直轄市的議員的助理是24萬\n226001\t247636\t內政部的版本是提高到30萬那一般縣市的議員的助理是多少?8萬那我們現在把它調高變成14萬對不對原因有是差了3倍嘛24比8嘛就1比3嘛那現在是變成1比2不到啦應該是不到啦那你們覺得這樣的調整是正確嗎?\n250705\t277808\t報告委員我想我們做這樣的調整也經過參考其他的因素來設算了包括說我們這個人數的這個變動我們刪除上限來規定下限這個大家一起來做這個通販建築市長是根據什麼樣的變動去做這樣的調整我覺得過去就已經很奇怪不合理的一個狀態了怎麼私家市就是24萬一般縣市就是8萬那現在你們是又根據什麼去調到30萬然後一般縣市是4萬\n279409\t291289\t一般當然我們會考量到他這個要去併顧的人數這是一個另外就是說這個之下是跟這個地方的這個薪資水準等等這些都會做一個考量\n292861\t308721\t但是還有一個因素當然也要考慮到這個地方的財政,大概這些因素都會考量財政。過去,難道過去沒有考慮到地方的財政,也一定會有嘛對不對?過去為什麼是1比3,現在為什麼是1比2,為什麼不能再高一點?\n309622\t310984\t該村里受限於地理環境因素服務區需要耗費更多的交通在內的相關成本\n333527\t343567\t所以你針對這個原住民地區之鄉鎮及自家市原住民區齁其村里事務會每月再增加百分之十嘛對不對這個是根據什麼\n344793\t345414\t為什麼只有針對原住民區?\n365215\t384076\t像我們一般縣市的像簡單講我講一個古坑鄉草嶺村你知道那個湖縣有多大嗎?在偏遠或邊鄉還是過去有我們內政部去認定的一般的平起鄉鎮其實那些村里長他要照顧的湖縣也不以為原住民區\n385557\t414080\t這個為什麼沒有納入在參考裡面?而且現在的村里長因為有長照 所以他們還要辦理什麼長照認知 對不起長照資源認證還有相關的一些授證我要表達說 你們可以看到這一塊為什麼另外那一塊沒有看到?因為你如果要做這樣的根據嘛 我是提醒你連一般的鄉鎮 湖遠廣大的 偏遠的你要把它納入在這次的討論中\n415123\t439106\t才有道理啦我剛剛是用議員的助理來比喻給你聽那我現在這個也是你內政部自己的提案喔那不能只有單純從這一個原住民區去做修正去做思考而已要嘛就全部一次同仁只要是服用廣大參照你們自己的提案的內容比例上都一樣就比照辦理我覺得這樣才有道理啦\n440643\t464447\t我想這個有一些非原住民區的部分,有些當然是也屬下比較偏遠,不過這要看每一個地方的區域特性不太一樣。是啊,你們有看了嗎?你們有去盤點嗎?你們有去調查嗎?我隨便都可以找幾個鄉鎮來對比原住民區,你們現在要給他每日增加百分之十的事務費的這樣的一個比例喔。\n466229\t479355\t如果要討論到這個可能就是要去比照這個有一些單位會去界定偏遠地區的界定定義有一些比較偏遠可能也跟原住民區是一樣的\n480322\t481223\t謝謝劉建國委員的發言\n","txt":"市長,如果這次修有多久?從現在算起往前推差不多多久沒有修過了?\n我剛好時任地方的市民代表所以今天早上的時候我有特別感謝部長還有感謝召委把這個案排進來讓大家有充分討論然後去把一些問題凸顯出來\n可想而知在2000年的時候明代資金條例去做這個修正其實是很大幅度的變動那市長知道怎麼變動嗎?針對哪幾個部分有大幅度的變動?委員是講這一次嗎?沒有2000年的時候就是89年嘛2089年的時候我這一部分是不是我們這個好來誰可以講的講一下\n主要是法治化那以前這個各地方的一個規定大概都不一致所以這個明代自己條例把它各地方都一致化主要是這樣而已嗎那當然那個經費的一個部分有些調整比如說縣市議員的原來各地方不一致那後來目前是有規定助理補助費8萬元這個部分\n也比當初各縣市在省的時代的部分還高。就這樣?市議員的部分也有調整了。你知道鄉村市民代表怎麼調整嗎?\n你如果說原有的一致化基本上應該不是叫做大幅調整我講的大幅調整嘛對不對你知道當時的那個還沒有修正過後的鄉村市民代表的那個研究費是多少嗎?修正完之後又是零多少?\n如果說原有是1後來變成2變成3那是不是變動幅度很大對不對?那個時候的鄉鎮市民代表領的是19470塊啦修正完之後變成49470啦那這樣變化大不大?非常大嘛對不對?好那村里長事務會全國統一嘛齁那也是那時候做了相關的這樣調整嘛\n這都並不很大事,我想我要把這個歷史的脈絡再講一次。然後在最近幾年,還沒有修這一次之前,最近幾年,我們針對村里長的事務費又有卓加五千,對不對?這兩次都在民進黨執政的任內。那我沒什麼要做這些事情。\n就請今天內政部提出來包含一般縣市的助理的費用我們要調高這是其一嘛 對不對還有衛民服務會我們要做相關的調高那在在都是在考量現今的一些狀況我想助理基本上為議員包括我們的助理為委員來做事情那其實他真正的目的還是衛民服務嘛\n所以今天我們看到有些不合理的狀況所以我們去做這樣的相關的調整所以我在特別要感謝內政部不過這個調整的弧度好像似乎有蠻大的一些討論空間原有的直轄市的議員的助理是24萬\n內政部的版本是提高到30萬那一般縣市的議員的助理是多少?8萬那我們現在把它調高變成14萬對不對原因有是差了3倍嘛24比8嘛就1比3嘛那現在是變成1比2不到啦應該是不到啦那你們覺得這樣的調整是正確嗎?\n報告委員我想我們做這樣的調整也經過參考其他的因素來設算了包括說我們這個人數的這個變動我們刪除上限來規定下限這個大家一起來做這個通販建築市長是根據什麼樣的變動去做這樣的調整我覺得過去就已經很奇怪不合理的一個狀態了怎麼私家市就是24萬一般縣市就是8萬那現在你們是又根據什麼去調到30萬然後一般縣市是4萬\n一般當然我們會考量到他這個要去併顧的人數這是一個另外就是說這個之下是跟這個地方的這個薪資水準等等這些都會做一個考量\n但是還有一個因素當然也要考慮到這個地方的財政,大概這些因素都會考量財政。過去,難道過去沒有考慮到地方的財政,也一定會有嘛對不對?過去為什麼是1比3,現在為什麼是1比2,為什麼不能再高一點?\n該村里受限於地理環境因素服務區需要耗費更多的交通在內的相關成本\n所以你針對這個原住民地區之鄉鎮及自家市原住民區齁其村里事務會每月再增加百分之十嘛對不對這個是根據什麼\n為什麼只有針對原住民區?\n像我們一般縣市的像簡單講我講一個古坑鄉草嶺村你知道那個湖縣有多大嗎?在偏遠或邊鄉還是過去有我們內政部去認定的一般的平起鄉鎮其實那些村里長他要照顧的湖縣也不以為原住民區\n這個為什麼沒有納入在參考裡面?而且現在的村里長因為有長照 所以他們還要辦理什麼長照認知 對不起長照資源認證還有相關的一些授證我要表達說 你們可以看到這一塊為什麼另外那一塊沒有看到?因為你如果要做這樣的根據嘛 我是提醒你連一般的鄉鎮 湖遠廣大的 偏遠的你要把它納入在這次的討論中\n才有道理啦我剛剛是用議員的助理來比喻給你聽那我現在這個也是你內政部自己的提案喔那不能只有單純從這一個原住民區去做修正去做思考而已要嘛就全部一次同仁只要是服用廣大參照你們自己的提案的內容比例上都一樣就比照辦理我覺得這樣才有道理啦\n我想這個有一些非原住民區的部分,有些當然是也屬下比較偏遠,不過這要看每一個地方的區域特性不太一樣。是啊,你們有看了嗎?你們有去盤點嗎?你們有去調查嗎?我隨便都可以找幾個鄉鎮來對比原住民區,你們現在要給他每日增加百分之十的事務費的這樣的一個比例喔。\n如果要討論到這個可能就是要去比照這個有一些單位會去界定偏遠地區的界定定義有一些比較偏遠可能也跟原住民區是一樣的\n謝謝劉建國委員的發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.001 --> 00:15.832\n市長,如果這次修有多久?從現在算起往前推差不多多久沒有修過了?\n\n00:24.652 --> 00:28.234\n我剛好時任地方的市民代表所以今天早上的時候我有特別感謝部長還有感謝召委把這個案排進來讓大家有充分討論然後去把一些問題凸顯出來\n\n00:44.748 --> 01:07.953\n可想而知在2000年的時候明代資金條例去做這個修正其實是很大幅度的變動那市長知道怎麼變動嗎?針對哪幾個部分有大幅度的變動?委員是講這一次嗎?沒有2000年的時候就是89年嘛2089年的時候我這一部分是不是我們這個好來誰可以講的講一下\n\n01:10.288 --> 01:34.295\n主要是法治化那以前這個各地方的一個規定大概都不一致所以這個明代自己條例把它各地方都一致化主要是這樣而已嗎那當然那個經費的一個部分有些調整比如說縣市議員的原來各地方不一致那後來目前是有規定助理補助費8萬元這個部分\n\n01:35.885 --> 01:48.360\n也比當初各縣市在省的時代的部分還高。就這樣?市議員的部分也有調整了。你知道鄉村市民代表怎麼調整嗎?\n\n01:53.203 --> 02:10.272\n你如果說原有的一致化基本上應該不是叫做大幅調整我講的大幅調整嘛對不對你知道當時的那個還沒有修正過後的鄉村市民代表的那個研究費是多少嗎?修正完之後又是零多少?\n\n02:13.100 --> 02:26.151\n如果說原有是1後來變成2變成3那是不是變動幅度很大對不對?那個時候的鄉鎮市民代表領的是19470塊啦修正完之後變成49470啦那這樣變化大不大?非常大嘛對不對?好那村里長事務會全國統一嘛齁那也是那時候做了相關的這樣調整嘛\n\n02:41.423 --> 02:56.973\n這都並不很大事,我想我要把這個歷史的脈絡再講一次。然後在最近幾年,還沒有修這一次之前,最近幾年,我們針對村里長的事務費又有卓加五千,對不對?這兩次都在民進黨執政的任內。那我沒什麼要做這些事情。\n\n03:01.345 --> 03:27.242\n就請今天內政部提出來包含一般縣市的助理的費用我們要調高這是其一嘛對不對還有衛民服務會我們要做相關的調高那在在都是在考量現今的一些狀況我想助理基本上為議員包括我們的助理為委員來做事情那其實他真正的目的還是衛民服務嘛\n\n03:28.365 --> 03:43.920\n所以今天我們看到有些不合理的狀況所以我們去做這樣的相關的調整所以我在特別要感謝內政部不過這個調整的弧度好像似乎有蠻大的一些討論空間原有的直轄市的議員的助理是24萬\n\n03:46.001 --> 04:07.636\n內政部的版本是提高到30萬那一般縣市的議員的助理是多少?8萬那我們現在把它調高變成14萬對不對原因有是差了3倍嘛24比8嘛就1比3嘛那現在是變成1比2不到啦應該是不到啦那你們覺得這樣的調整是正確嗎?\n\n04:10.705 --> 04:37.808\n報告委員我想我們做這樣的調整也經過參考其他的因素來設算了包括說我們這個人數的這個變動我們刪除上限來規定下限這個大家一起來做這個通販建築市長是根據什麼樣的變動去做這樣的調整我覺得過去就已經很奇怪不合理的一個狀態了怎麼私家市就是24萬一般縣市就是8萬那現在你們是又根據什麼去調到30萬然後一般縣市是4萬\n\n04:39.409 --> 04:51.289\n一般當然我們會考量到他這個要去併顧的人數這是一個另外就是說這個之下是跟這個地方的這個薪資水準等等這些都會做一個考量\n\n04:52.861 --> 05:08.721\n但是還有一個因素當然也要考慮到這個地方的財政,大概這些因素都會考量財政。過去,難道過去沒有考慮到地方的財政,也一定會有嘛對不對?過去為什麼是1比3,現在為什麼是1比2,為什麼不能再高一點?\n\n05:09.622 --> 05:10.984\n該村里受限於地理環境因素服務區需要耗費更多的交通在內的相關成本\n\n05:33.527 --> 05:43.567\n所以你針對這個原住民地區之鄉鎮及自家市原住民區齁其村里事務會每月再增加百分之十嘛對不對這個是根據什麼\n\n05:44.793 --> 05:45.414\n為什麼只有針對原住民區?\n\n06:05.215 --> 06:24.076\n像我們一般縣市的像簡單講我講一個古坑鄉草嶺村你知道那個湖縣有多大嗎?在偏遠或邊鄉還是過去有我們內政部去認定的一般的平起鄉鎮其實那些村里長他要照顧的湖縣也不以為原住民區\n\n06:25.557 --> 06:54.080\n這個為什麼沒有納入在參考裡面?而且現在的村里長因為有長照所以他們還要辦理什麼長照認知對不起長照資源認證還有相關的一些授證我要表達說你們可以看到這一塊為什麼另外那一塊沒有看到?因為你如果要做這樣的根據嘛我是提醒你連一般的鄉鎮湖遠廣大的偏遠的你要把它納入在這次的討論中\n\n06:55.123 --> 07:19.106\n才有道理啦我剛剛是用議員的助理來比喻給你聽那我現在這個也是你內政部自己的提案喔那不能只有單純從這一個原住民區去做修正去做思考而已要嘛就全部一次同仁只要是服用廣大參照你們自己的提案的內容比例上都一樣就比照辦理我覺得這樣才有道理啦\n\n07:20.643 --> 07:44.447\n我想這個有一些非原住民區的部分,有些當然是也屬下比較偏遠,不過這要看每一個地方的區域特性不太一樣。是啊,你們有看了嗎?你們有去盤點嗎?你們有去調查嗎?我隨便都可以找幾個鄉鎮來對比原住民區,你們現在要給他每日增加百分之十的事務費的這樣的一個比例喔。\n\n07:46.229 --> 07:59.355\n如果要討論到這個可能就是要去比照這個有一些單位會去界定偏遠地區的界定定義有一些比較偏遠可能也跟原住民區是一樣的\n\n08:00.322 --> 08:01.223\n謝謝劉建國委員的發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.001,"end":15.832,"text":"市長,如果這次修有多久?從現在算起往前推差不多多久沒有修過了?"},{"start":24.652,"end":28.234,"text":"我剛好時任地方的市民代表所以今天早上的時候我有特別感謝部長還有感謝召委把這個案排進來讓大家有充分討論然後去把一些問題凸顯出來"},{"start":44.748,"end":67.953,"text":"可想而知在2000年的時候明代資金條例去做這個修正其實是很大幅度的變動那市長知道怎麼變動嗎?針對哪幾個部分有大幅度的變動?委員是講這一次嗎?沒有2000年的時候就是89年嘛2089年的時候我這一部分是不是我們這個好來誰可以講的講一下"},{"start":70.288,"end":94.295,"text":"主要是法治化那以前這個各地方的一個規定大概都不一致所以這個明代自己條例把它各地方都一致化主要是這樣而已嗎那當然那個經費的一個部分有些調整比如說縣市議員的原來各地方不一致那後來目前是有規定助理補助費8萬元這個部分"},{"start":95.885,"end":108.36,"text":"也比當初各縣市在省的時代的部分還高。就這樣?市議員的部分也有調整了。你知道鄉村市民代表怎麼調整嗎?"},{"start":113.203,"end":130.272,"text":"你如果說原有的一致化基本上應該不是叫做大幅調整我講的大幅調整嘛對不對你知道當時的那個還沒有修正過後的鄉村市民代表的那個研究費是多少嗎?修正完之後又是零多少?"},{"start":133.1,"end":146.151,"text":"如果說原有是1後來變成2變成3那是不是變動幅度很大對不對?那個時候的鄉鎮市民代表領的是19470塊啦修正完之後變成49470啦那這樣變化大不大?非常大嘛對不對?好那村里長事務會全國統一嘛齁那也是那時候做了相關的這樣調整嘛"},{"start":161.423,"end":176.973,"text":"這都並不很大事,我想我要把這個歷史的脈絡再講一次。然後在最近幾年,還沒有修這一次之前,最近幾年,我們針對村里長的事務費又有卓加五千,對不對?這兩次都在民進黨執政的任內。那我沒什麼要做這些事情。"},{"start":181.345,"end":207.242,"text":"就請今天內政部提出來包含一般縣市的助理的費用我們要調高這是其一嘛 對不對還有衛民服務會我們要做相關的調高那在在都是在考量現今的一些狀況我想助理基本上為議員包括我們的助理為委員來做事情那其實他真正的目的還是衛民服務嘛"},{"start":208.365,"end":223.92,"text":"所以今天我們看到有些不合理的狀況所以我們去做這樣的相關的調整所以我在特別要感謝內政部不過這個調整的弧度好像似乎有蠻大的一些討論空間原有的直轄市的議員的助理是24萬"},{"start":226.001,"end":247.636,"text":"內政部的版本是提高到30萬那一般縣市的議員的助理是多少?8萬那我們現在把它調高變成14萬對不對原因有是差了3倍嘛24比8嘛就1比3嘛那現在是變成1比2不到啦應該是不到啦那你們覺得這樣的調整是正確嗎?"},{"start":250.705,"end":277.808,"text":"報告委員我想我們做這樣的調整也經過參考其他的因素來設算了包括說我們這個人數的這個變動我們刪除上限來規定下限這個大家一起來做這個通販建築市長是根據什麼樣的變動去做這樣的調整我覺得過去就已經很奇怪不合理的一個狀態了怎麼私家市就是24萬一般縣市就是8萬那現在你們是又根據什麼去調到30萬然後一般縣市是4萬"},{"start":279.409,"end":291.289,"text":"一般當然我們會考量到他這個要去併顧的人數這是一個另外就是說這個之下是跟這個地方的這個薪資水準等等這些都會做一個考量"},{"start":292.861,"end":308.721,"text":"但是還有一個因素當然也要考慮到這個地方的財政,大概這些因素都會考量財政。過去,難道過去沒有考慮到地方的財政,也一定會有嘛對不對?過去為什麼是1比3,現在為什麼是1比2,為什麼不能再高一點?"},{"start":309.622,"end":310.984,"text":"該村里受限於地理環境因素服務區需要耗費更多的交通在內的相關成本"},{"start":333.527,"end":343.567,"text":"所以你針對這個原住民地區之鄉鎮及自家市原住民區齁其村里事務會每月再增加百分之十嘛對不對這個是根據什麼"},{"start":344.793,"end":345.414,"text":"為什麼只有針對原住民區?"},{"start":365.215,"end":384.076,"text":"像我們一般縣市的像簡單講我講一個古坑鄉草嶺村你知道那個湖縣有多大嗎?在偏遠或邊鄉還是過去有我們內政部去認定的一般的平起鄉鎮其實那些村里長他要照顧的湖縣也不以為原住民區"},{"start":385.557,"end":414.08,"text":"這個為什麼沒有納入在參考裡面?而且現在的村里長因為有長照 所以他們還要辦理什麼長照認知 對不起長照資源認證還有相關的一些授證我要表達說 你們可以看到這一塊為什麼另外那一塊沒有看到?因為你如果要做這樣的根據嘛 我是提醒你連一般的鄉鎮 湖遠廣大的 偏遠的你要把它納入在這次的討論中"},{"start":415.123,"end":439.106,"text":"才有道理啦我剛剛是用議員的助理來比喻給你聽那我現在這個也是你內政部自己的提案喔那不能只有單純從這一個原住民區去做修正去做思考而已要嘛就全部一次同仁只要是服用廣大參照你們自己的提案的內容比例上都一樣就比照辦理我覺得這樣才有道理啦"},{"start":440.643,"end":464.447,"text":"我想這個有一些非原住民區的部分,有些當然是也屬下比較偏遠,不過這要看每一個地方的區域特性不太一樣。是啊,你們有看了嗎?你們有去盤點嗎?你們有去調查嗎?我隨便都可以找幾個鄉鎮來對比原住民區,你們現在要給他每日增加百分之十的事務費的這樣的一個比例喔。"},{"start":466.229,"end":479.355,"text":"如果要討論到這個可能就是要去比照這個有一些單位會去界定偏遠地區的界定定義有一些比較偏遠可能也跟原住民區是一樣的"},{"start":480.322,"end":481.223,"text":"謝謝劉建國委員的發言"}]}}}}