{"id":152357,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152357","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d554e30850cf792d0e2c2a1b5e636014b4f9ff50c8f2c18736499d1b681a2ac73a4875bd750b89d65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈發惠","委員發言時間":"09:21:14 - 09:33:27","影片長度":"00:12:13","會議時間":"2024-05-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院、法務部及金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「強制執行保單解約償債未符比例原則紛爭頻傳亂象如何解」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於司法院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。）","date":"2024-05-09","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-21"},"duration":733,"end_time":"2024-05-09T09:33:27+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-09T09:21:14+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":106,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（9時21分）主席，我們先請司法院秘書長。"],["主席：請吳秘書長。"],["吳秘書長三龍：委員好！"],["沈委員發惠：秘書長，行政院將通過詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案、洗錢防制法、科技偵查及保障法、通訊保障及監察法等幾項法案，我們行政院把這整個作為打詐專法，這個部分，我個人還沒有看到法條內容，但是我在新聞上面看到這整個打詐專法的方向，這個部分，請問司法院瞭解嗎？"],["吳秘書長三龍：在這個過程當中，行政院還有法務部在制定這些打詐專法的時候，司法院都全力配合，每一次通知開會，我們都會參加。"],["沈委員發惠：主席，請法務部，好不好？"],["主席：請黃署長。"],["黃署長玉垣：委員好！"],["沈委員發惠：署長好！對於行政院所推出這個打詐專法的部分，你個人瞭不瞭解？"],["黃署長玉垣：抱歉！因為我是行政執行署，這個是屬於我們檢察司的。"],["沈委員發惠：好，那你請回，你不瞭解。"],["黃署長玉垣：好，謝謝。"],["沈委員發惠：秘書長，對於目前行政院所推出這個打詐專法的內容，你個人有沒有掌握？"],["吳秘書長三龍：都有掌握……"],["沈委員發惠：有掌握啦！"],["吳秘書長三龍：因為我們刑事廳隨時都要回報，每一次參加會議，都要有刑事廳相關同仁……"],["沈委員發惠：這個推出來，我個人是非常肯定，行政院大概是把這幾年來民眾對於詐騙集團以及包括刑事案件、包括法務部、包括各金融單位這幾年裡面在打詐的過程中所碰到的幾個法律上面的問題，我們要一一把它解決，當然這個修法的結果能不能解決還是一個問題，但是有關這裡面的幾個，尤其是大型網路平台的部分，還有我知道這次好像增列鉅額詐欺罪，我個人因為還沒有看到法條，所以我不太清楚這個鉅額詐欺罪是指一次犯罪行為，還是以行為人為單位所累計的詐騙金額呢？這個部分……"],["吳秘書長三龍：這些我們刑事廳都有密集參與……"],["沈委員發惠：那是不是請刑事廳？今天是副廳長列席，是不是？"],["主席：請。"],["沈委員發惠：陳副廳長。"],["陳副廳長信旗：報告，據我們瞭解，行政院今天早上應該會開院會來處理打詐三法的研議，會通過的草案內容目前為止可能還不是那麼確定，但是根據我們之前開會的所得，詐欺1,000萬元以上可能列為鉅額詐欺……"],["沈委員發惠：鉅額詐欺罪。"],["陳副廳長信旗：對、對、對，會成為三年以上十年以下的重罪案件。"],["沈委員發惠：對，這個所謂鉅額詐欺罪是指一次犯罪行為1,000萬以上，還是累計？"],["陳副廳長信旗：應該是採累計，不過這個還是要看草案的內容。"],["沈委員發惠：當然最後還沒確定，要等今天的院會，但是你所看到提到院會的草案內容裡面是累計的，還是……"],["陳副廳長信旗：對，不過這個是跟罪數有關係，就是如果他詐欺的過程中持續性地詐欺，這個金額當然是累計。"],["沈委員發惠：好，這個部分，我們等最後看到這個條文，可能有很多部分……"],["陳副廳長信旗：可能要以最後的版本為準。"],["沈委員發惠：對，當然是以最後的版本為準，但是有關於要求大型網路平台在臺灣要指定代理人，像TikTok這些大型網路平台，因為我們目前查緝詐欺犯罪碰到最大的困難就是網路平台的部分，這個部分，目前我看到的辦法是要求這些大型網路平台在臺灣必須要指定法律代理人。","另外，有關於鉅額詐欺加重罪、有關於三犯不得假釋或者是窩裡反條款，這些部分，到時候看到確定的法案之後，我們再跟相關的執行單位來討論，好不好？兩位請回。","接下來，秘書長，你還是稍微留步，有關於我們今天的主題，民事大法庭裁定壽險保單可作為強制執行標的的部分，究竟人壽保險有沒有一身專屬性、是不是屬於一身專屬性的權利？在法律上面當然還有一些爭議，但是既然我們民事大法庭做了統一的見解，這個統一見解做下去之後，為什麼今天會召開這樣子的會？剛才各個單位的報告也都聽到了，事實上，剛才我看到我們司法院自己的報告也提到，我們北檢及士檢不堪負荷，負荷非常沉重，就因為通過了這個見解。事實上，不只是法院的案件增加了負荷而已，事實上，有四大增加，民眾的抱怨也增加，很多民眾的抱怨；再來，保險公司及保險公會的負擔也增加，因為這個過程你們要查詢這個保單，所以保險公會及保險公司的負擔也增加；再來，我們民意代表接受的陳情也增加，量真的增加很大。","這個我們還是須要解決，我剛剛有看到你們這個報告裡面有關民事大法庭做出這個統一見解之後，這一年來所增加案件的幅度將近三成，三成是相當可怕的數字！後續有很多部分可能是金融單位要來協助處理。這個部分，就我剛剛所講的狀況，秘書長，是不是現在的狀況是這樣子？"],["吳秘書長三龍：現在這個是重災區啦！"],["沈委員發惠：重災區嘛！"],["吳秘書長三龍：重災區啦！"],["沈委員發惠：重災區，好，秘書長請回。","我們請保險局施局長。"],["主席：請施局長。"],["施局長瓊華：委員好！"],["沈委員發惠：施局長，好久不見！歡迎你今天到司法及法制委員會來。"],["施局長瓊華：謝謝委員。"],["沈委員發惠：我剛剛看到你們的報告，就今天的主題，你們提到金管會有四大因應作為……"],["施局長瓊華：是。"],["沈委員發惠：有四大因應作為，我剛剛所講的狀況，包括我們司法院秘書長說它是重災區，法院的案件增加量是重災區……"],["施局長瓊華：是。"],["沈委員發惠：事實上，保險公司及保險公會，我想局長應該非常清楚，他們負擔增加的狀況是驚人……"],["施局長瓊華：是。"],["沈委員發惠：所以我們還是要看金管會的因應作為，金管會的因應作為在報告裡面提到有四大因應作為，第一個是要求保險業主動關懷保險契約遭強制執行保戶，這個部分其實就是增加保險業者的負擔……"],["施局長瓊華：是。"],["沈委員發惠：第二個是要求壽險公司提供附約延續條款，這個部分我看你們已經做了……"],["施局長瓊華：是。"],["沈委員發惠：你們在去年的12月已經發了一個人身保險商品審查應注意事項，包括附約有沒有解約金，你們把它區分開來做了，但是那是針對未來新的人壽保險契約，過去舊的還是一樣在目前的負擔亂象之中，你沒有回溯，對不對？"],["施局長瓊華：報告委員，因為附約是一年一約，所以當他續約的時候可以……"],["沈委員發惠：剛剛這個是限新保單嘛！續約的時候也必須要照這個規範？"],["施局長瓊華：他就一併會加上附約延續，所以可以解決……"],["沈委員發惠：但是原本過去一年的這些都還是跟原來一樣啦！"],["施局長瓊華：目前的話，除了續約的時候，他也可以申請。"],["沈委員發惠：這個我瞭解。再來，你們提到你們要責成壽險公會將險種歸類，以利執行機關實務上判斷不予執行之保險契約，這也都是增加負擔，事實上你們的四大因應作為，真正該作為的就是第四項，就是修法，對不對？"],["施局長瓊華：是。"],["沈委員發惠：修法目前的進度怎麼樣？"],["施局長瓊華：我們已經在擬這個條文了。"],["沈委員發惠：已經滿久了。"],["施局長瓊華：因為這件事情應該是上個月，我們受益人……"],["沈委員發惠：你們修法有沒有包括受益人介入的制度？"],["施局長瓊華：有，因為我們有一個委外研究計畫，所以我們會把受益人介入權……"],["沈委員發惠：修法大概有兩個重點，第一個就是明定保障型的契約不能不予強制執行，這是第一個重點；第二個就是受益人的介入制度，這個部分要納入、要引入，對不對？"],["施局長瓊華：對。"],["沈委員發惠：因為這個東西牽涉到……我們知道現在的亂象，但是政府各單位其實也在運用這個方式進行強制執行，今天國稅署在這裡，他們光去年透過人壽保單強制執行追回的款項就達到兩億多，對不對？所以未來如果修法，不只這個，交通部所屬的中華電信、台電，他們過去欠的電費、電話費很多也都是透過這個保單在強制執行、在收回的，所以修法的部分我希望金管會這邊能夠加速進行，好不好？"],["施局長瓊華：是，我們會儘快來處理。"],["沈委員發惠：你們預計什麼時候？因為這已經講滿久了。"],["施局長瓊華：我們近期會召開公聽會，大概5月底之前會先跟業者召開第一次，還有我們也會邀執行機關一起來。"],["沈委員發惠：好，5月底召開公聽會，照這個進度儘快把修法完成啦！不然我剛剛講四大負擔，包括今天司法院就在這裡講是重災區。"],["施局長瓊華：是，這個部分我們儘快加速來進行。"],["沈委員發惠：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝沈委員。接下來有請陳委員俊宇質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":122,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-21","speakers":["鍾佳濱","沈發惠","陳俊宇","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","林思銘","黃國昌","吳思瑤","鄭天財Sra 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,969\n主席我們先請司法院秘書長好請吳秘書長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:27,237 --> 00:00:45,045\n秘書長,我們根據行政院所通過的有關於詐欺犯罪危害防治條例草案還有洗錢防治法、科技偵查法、通訊保障監察法等等幾項\n\n3\n00:00:50,647 --> 00:01:09,792\n這個我們行政院他把他整個作為一個打砸專法那這個部分現在他這個行政院他已經他我個人還沒有看到法條內容但是我在新聞上面看到這個這個他的整個打砸專法的方向這部分請問司法院這邊了解嗎\n\n4\n00:01:11,192 --> 00:01:30,744\n在這過程當中那行政院還有法務部那在這個制定這些打詐專法的時候司法院都全力配合每一次通知的開會我們都有這個那個主席都會參加主席來請黃市長\n\n5\n00:01:40,465 --> 00:01:56,553\n委員好市長好這個你是不是大概我大概你對這個行政院所推出這個打詐專法的部分你個人了不了解抱歉因為我是行政執行署這個是屬於那個我們檢察司的\n\n6\n00:01:57,659 --> 00:02:10,470\n好那這個那還那好這個那你請回來你不了解這個這個秘書長這個部分你個人對於對於這個這個目前行政院所推出的打砸專法\n\n7\n00:02:11,533 --> 00:02:30,343\n的內容,你現在,你個人有沒有掌握?都有掌握,因為我們刑事廳都隨時都要回報,每一次參加會議齁,這個都要有這個這個推出來我個人是非常肯定,行政院這樣子他把這個,大概是把這幾年來這個\n\n8\n00:02:32,424 --> 00:02:54,068\n我們這些所謂民眾對詐騙集團以及從我們從這個包括刑事案件包括這個法務部包括這個各金融單位大家在這個這幾年裡面在打詐的過程中所碰到的大概幾個法律上面的問題我們一一要把它解決當然這個修法的結果他能不能解決這個還是一個問題但是\n\n9\n00:02:56,869 --> 00:03:23,580\n是不是這裡面有關幾個尤其是例如說像這個這個大型網路平台啦齁那像我們我知道這次好像增列了這個巨額詐欺罪齁那我個人但是我個人因為還沒有看到法條所以我不太清楚這巨額詐欺罪是指一次犯罪行為還是還是這個這個這個以這個這個行為人為單位他所累計的的詐騙金額呢這部分\n\n10\n00:03:24,900 --> 00:03:29,024\n據我們了解那個行政院今天早上應該會開院會來處理打詐三法的原意\n\n11\n00:03:40,734 --> 00:04:04,420\n那其實會通過的草案內容可能目前為止可能還不是那麼確定但是根據我們之前開會的所得其實就這個詐欺一千萬元以上可能列為這個巨額的詐欺巨額詐欺罪會成為這個三年以上十年以下的重罪的案件對那是這個所謂巨額詐欺罪他是指一次一次\n\n12\n00:04:05,765 --> 00:04:27,032\n犯罪行為一千萬以上還是累計應該是才累計不過這個還是要看他草案的內容所以最後去當然最後還沒確定但等監議院會但是你所看到提到院會的草案內容裡面是累計的還是不過這個是跟贅述有關係就是說如果他詐欺的過程中他持續性的詐欺這個金額當然是累計\n\n13\n00:04:29,090 --> 00:04:47,553\n好這個部分齁這個部分我們等這個最後我們看到這個條文齁可能有很多部分可能要以他最後版本為準對當然是以最後版本為準齁那但是有關於這個大型網路平台要求在台灣要指定代理人像TikTok這些大型網路平台因為我們現在目前整個\n\n14\n00:04:48,334 --> 00:04:59,691\n查緝、詐欺犯罪最大、碰到最大困難就在這網路平台的部分這部分我們目前我看到的辦法是要求這些大型網路平台在台灣必須要指定法律代理人\n\n15\n00:05:00,731 --> 00:05:21,538\n那這個另外有關於巨額詐欺加重罪有關於這個三犯不得假釋或者是這個窩裡反條款這些部分我們都希望說到時候我們看到確定的法案之後這部分可能再跟這個相關的執行單位我們再來討論好不好兩位請回\n\n16\n00:05:24,244 --> 00:05:44,436\n好那接下來接下來我是先請這個這個阿等一下這個這個秘書長你還是還是稍微留步齁有關於我們這個今天的主題啦齁我們這個民事民事大法庭裁定了齁裁定有關於這個授權保單該作為可作為執行標的的部分齁這部分這個\n\n17\n00:05:48,140 --> 00:06:13,676\n究竟這個人壽保險他有沒有這個一身專屬性是不是屬於一身專屬性的權利在法律上面當然還有一些爭議但是我們既然我們大法庭這民事大法庭做了統一的見解但這個統一見解做下去之後為什麼今天會召開這樣的會剛才各個單位的報告也都聽到了也都聽到就是他事實上剛才我看到我們司法院自己的報告也提到我們這個北檢跟市檢\n\n18\n00:06:15,219 --> 00:06:28,812\n的這個不堪負荷,負荷非常沉重,就因為通過這個見解,所以事實上不只是我們這個法院案件增加的負荷而已,事實上四大增加,民眾的抱怨也增加,很多\n\n19\n00:06:30,193 --> 00:06:45,325\n民眾的抱怨再來保險公司跟保險公會的負擔也增加因為你們這過程你們要查詢你們要查詢這個保單所以保險公會跟保險公司他的負擔也增加再來我們民意代表接受的陳情也增加量真的增加很大\n\n20\n00:06:48,211 --> 00:07:13,777\n所以這個我們還是事實上需要解決啦我剛剛有看到你們的這個報告裡面有關這個這一年來這個民事大法庭做出這個統一的見解之後這一年來所增加的幅度將近到三成耶三成是相當可怕的數字啊那這個後續的狀況齁這個有很多部分可能\n\n21\n00:07:15,350 --> 00:07:15,390\n市長請報告\n\n22\n00:07:38,413 --> 00:08:04,924\n市長好久不見歡迎你今天到司法法制委員會來了我剛看到你們的報告你們提到就今天的這個主題你們提到說儘管會有四大因應作為四大因應作為那我這個我剛所講的狀況包括我們司法院秘書長說他是重災區法院的案件增加量是重災區事實上保險公司跟保險公會我想這個\n\n23\n00:08:06,624 --> 00:08:21,837\n局長應該非常清楚他們負擔增加的狀況是驚人所以我們還是要看金管會的因應作為金管會的因應作為在報告裡面提到四大因應作為第一個是說要求保險業主動關懷保險契約遭強制執行戶\n\n24\n00:08:26,389 --> 00:08:50,795\n這部分其實他就是增加保險業的業者的增加他的這個負擔嘛是第二個要求受險公司提供覆約延續條款這部分我看你們已經做了啦你們在這個去年的12月你們已經發了一個人身保險商品審查應注意事項已經讓他讓他這個包括他有沒有\n\n25\n00:08:55,390 --> 00:08:55,870\n報告委員因為互約是一年\n\n26\n00:09:19,650 --> 00:09:21,191\n但是你們再來你們提到說你們要執行這個機關簡化\n\n27\n00:09:46,420 --> 00:09:48,201\n我們已經在擬這個條文了就是已經滿久了捏\n\n28\n00:10:14,752 --> 00:10:24,543\n因為這件事情應該是上個月我們的那個有沒有包括這個受益人介入的制度\n\n29\n00:10:25,219 --> 00:10:40,612\n有,因為我們有一個委員研究計畫,所以我們會把受益人……大概修法兩個重點,第一個就是明定這個保障型的契約不能不予強制執行,這是第一個重點。第二個就是受益人的介入制度,這個部分要納入,要引入,對不對?對,這個齁,我是\n\n30\n00:10:46,958 --> 00:11:00,290\n因為這個東西牽涉到事實上現在我們知道現在這樣亂象但是其實政府各單位其實也在運用這個方式在進行強制執行我們今天國稅署在這裡\n\n31\n00:11:01,948 --> 00:11:19,823\n他們這個光去年去年透過這個這個人壽保單的強制執行去年就追回追回的這個這個這個款項都到兩億多的是不是對不對兩億多這就是就是這個所以你們這個未來如果如果修法啊不只這個中華電信\n\n32\n00:11:21,024 --> 00:11:21,044\n是。\n\n33\n00:11:38,363 --> 00:11:55,313\n我們會盡快來處理我們近期會召開公聽會大概應該是現在是五月我們大概五月底之前會先召開過第一次的那個跟業者還有我們會邀執行機關一起來\n\n34\n00:11:57,554 --> 00:12:07,178\n五月底召開公認會我們照這個進度盡快的把修法完成不然我剛剛講四大負擔包括我們自己今天司法院就在這裡講重災區這個我們盡快加速來進行\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n15640\t19969\t主席我們先請司法院秘書長好請吳秘書長委員好\n27237\t45045\t秘書長,我們根據行政院所通過的有關於詐欺犯罪危害防治條例草案還有洗錢防治法、科技偵查法、通訊保障監察法等等幾項\n50647\t69792\t這個我們行政院他把他整個作為一個打砸專法那這個部分現在他這個行政院他已經他我個人還沒有看到法條內容但是我在新聞上面看到這個這個他的整個打砸專法的方向這部分請問司法院這邊了解嗎\n71192\t90744\t在這過程當中那行政院還有法務部那在這個制定這些打詐專法的時候司法院都全力配合每一次通知的開會我們都有這個那個主席都會參加主席來請黃市長\n100465\t116553\t委員好市長好這個你是不是大概我大概你對這個行政院所推出這個打詐專法的部分你個人了不了解抱歉因為我是行政執行署這個是屬於那個我們檢察司的\n117659\t130470\t好那這個那還那好這個那你請回來你不了解這個這個秘書長這個部分你個人對於對於這個這個目前行政院所推出的打砸專法\n131533\t150343\t的內容,你現在,你個人有沒有掌握?都有掌握,因為我們刑事廳都隨時都要回報,每一次參加會議齁,這個都要有這個這個推出來我個人是非常肯定,行政院這樣子他把這個,大概是把這幾年來這個\n152424\t174068\t我們這些所謂民眾對詐騙集團以及從我們從這個包括刑事案件包括這個法務部包括這個各金融單位大家在這個這幾年裡面在打詐的過程中所碰到的大概幾個法律上面的問題我們一一要把它解決當然這個修法的結果他能不能解決這個還是一個問題但是\n176869\t203580\t是不是這裡面有關幾個尤其是例如說像這個這個大型網路平台啦齁那像我們我知道這次好像增列了這個巨額詐欺罪齁那我個人但是我個人因為還沒有看到法條所以我不太清楚這巨額詐欺罪是指一次犯罪行為還是還是這個這個這個以這個這個行為人為單位他所累計的的詐騙金額呢這部分\n204900\t209024\t據我們了解那個行政院今天早上應該會開院會來處理打詐三法的原意\n220734\t244420\t那其實會通過的草案內容可能目前為止可能還不是那麼確定但是根據我們之前開會的所得其實就這個詐欺一千萬元以上可能列為這個巨額的詐欺巨額詐欺罪會成為這個三年以上十年以下的重罪的案件對那是這個所謂巨額詐欺罪他是指一次一次\n245765\t267032\t犯罪行為一千萬以上還是累計應該是才累計不過這個還是要看他草案的內容所以最後去當然最後還沒確定但等監議院會但是你所看到提到院會的草案內容裡面是累計的還是不過這個是跟贅述有關係就是說如果他詐欺的過程中他持續性的詐欺這個金額當然是累計\n269090\t287553\t好 這個部分齁 這個部分我們等這個最後我們看到這個條文齁可能有很多部分可能要以他最後版本為準對 當然是以最後版本為準齁那但是有關於這個大型網路平台要求在台灣要指定代理人像TikTok這些大型網路平台因為我們現在目前整個\n288334\t299691\t查緝、詐欺犯罪最大、碰到最大困難就在這網路平台的部分這部分我們目前我看到的辦法是要求這些大型網路平台在台灣必須要指定法律代理人\n300731\t321538\t那這個另外有關於巨額詐欺加重罪有關於這個三犯不得假釋或者是這個窩裡反條款這些部分我們都希望說到時候我們看到確定的法案之後這部分可能再跟這個相關的執行單位我們再來討論好不好兩位請回\n324244\t344436\t好那接下來接下來我是先請這個這個阿等一下這個這個秘書長你還是還是稍微留步齁有關於我們這個今天的主題啦齁我們這個民事民事大法庭裁定了齁裁定有關於這個授權保單該作為可作為執行標的的部分齁這部分這個\n348140\t373676\t究竟這個人壽保險他有沒有這個一身專屬性是不是屬於一身專屬性的權利在法律上面當然還有一些爭議但是我們既然我們大法庭這民事大法庭做了統一的見解但這個統一見解做下去之後為什麼今天會召開這樣的會剛才各個單位的報告也都聽到了也都聽到就是他事實上剛才我看到我們司法院自己的報告也提到我們這個北檢跟市檢\n375219\t388812\t的這個不堪負荷,負荷非常沉重,就因為通過這個見解,所以事實上不只是我們這個法院案件增加的負荷而已,事實上四大增加,民眾的抱怨也增加,很多\n390193\t405325\t民眾的抱怨再來保險公司跟保險公會的負擔也增加因為你們這過程你們要查詢你們要查詢這個保單所以保險公會跟保險公司他的負擔也增加再來我們民意代表接受的陳情也增加量真的增加很大\n408211\t433777\t所以這個我們還是事實上需要解決啦我剛剛有看到你們的這個報告裡面有關這個這一年來這個民事大法庭做出這個統一的見解之後這一年來所增加的幅度將近到三成耶三成是相當可怕的數字啊那這個後續的狀況齁這個有很多部分可能\n435350\t435390\t市長請報告\n458413\t484924\t市長好久不見歡迎你今天到司法法制委員會來了我剛看到你們的報告你們提到就今天的這個主題你們提到說儘管會有四大因應作為四大因應作為那我這個我剛所講的狀況包括我們司法院秘書長說他是重災區法院的案件增加量是重災區事實上保險公司跟保險公會我想這個\n486624\t501837\t局長應該非常清楚他們負擔增加的狀況是驚人所以我們還是要看金管會的因應作為金管會的因應作為在報告裡面提到四大因應作為第一個是說要求保險業主動關懷保險契約遭強制執行戶\n506389\t530795\t這部分其實他就是增加保險業的業者的增加他的這個負擔嘛是第二個要求受險公司提供覆約延續條款這部分我看你們已經做了啦你們在這個去年的12月你們已經發了一個人身保險商品審查應注意事項已經讓他讓他這個包括他有沒有\n535390\t535870\t報告委員因為互約是一年\n559650\t561191\t但是你們再來你們提到說你們要執行這個機關簡化\n586420\t588201\t我們已經在擬這個條文了就是已經滿久了捏\n614752\t624543\t因為這件事情應該是上個月我們的那個有沒有包括這個受益人介入的制度\n625219\t640612\t有,因為我們有一個委員研究計畫,所以我們會把受益人……大概修法兩個重點,第一個就是明定這個保障型的契約不能不予強制執行,這是第一個重點。第二個就是受益人的介入制度,這個部分要納入,要引入,對不對?對,這個齁,我是\n646958\t660290\t因為這個東西牽涉到事實上現在我們知道現在這樣亂象但是其實政府各單位其實也在運用這個方式在進行強制執行我們今天國稅署在這裡\n661948\t679823\t他們這個光去年去年透過這個這個人壽保單的強制執行去年就追回追回的這個這個這個款項都到兩億多的是不是對不對兩億多這就是就是這個所以你們這個未來如果如果修法啊不只這個中華電信\n681024\t681044\t是。\n698363\t715313\t我們會盡快來處理我們近期會召開公聽會大概應該是現在是五月我們大概五月底之前會先召開過第一次的那個跟業者還有我們會邀執行機關一起來\n717554\t727178\t五月底召開公認會我們照這個進度盡快的把修法完成不然我剛剛講四大負擔包括我們自己今天司法院就在這裡講重災區這個我們盡快加速來進行\n","txt":"主席我們先請司法院秘書長好請吳秘書長委員好\n秘書長,我們根據行政院所通過的有關於詐欺犯罪危害防治條例草案還有洗錢防治法、科技偵查法、通訊保障監察法等等幾項\n這個我們行政院他把他整個作為一個打砸專法那這個部分現在他這個行政院他已經他我個人還沒有看到法條內容但是我在新聞上面看到這個這個他的整個打砸專法的方向這部分請問司法院這邊了解嗎\n在這過程當中那行政院還有法務部那在這個制定這些打詐專法的時候司法院都全力配合每一次通知的開會我們都有這個那個主席都會參加主席來請黃市長\n委員好市長好這個你是不是大概我大概你對這個行政院所推出這個打詐專法的部分你個人了不了解抱歉因為我是行政執行署這個是屬於那個我們檢察司的\n好那這個那還那好這個那你請回來你不了解這個這個秘書長這個部分你個人對於對於這個這個目前行政院所推出的打砸專法\n的內容,你現在,你個人有沒有掌握?都有掌握,因為我們刑事廳都隨時都要回報,每一次參加會議齁,這個都要有這個這個推出來我個人是非常肯定,行政院這樣子他把這個,大概是把這幾年來這個\n我們這些所謂民眾對詐騙集團以及從我們從這個包括刑事案件包括這個法務部包括這個各金融單位大家在這個這幾年裡面在打詐的過程中所碰到的大概幾個法律上面的問題我們一一要把它解決當然這個修法的結果他能不能解決這個還是一個問題但是\n是不是這裡面有關幾個尤其是例如說像這個這個大型網路平台啦齁那像我們我知道這次好像增列了這個巨額詐欺罪齁那我個人但是我個人因為還沒有看到法條所以我不太清楚這巨額詐欺罪是指一次犯罪行為還是還是這個這個這個以這個這個行為人為單位他所累計的的詐騙金額呢這部分\n據我們了解那個行政院今天早上應該會開院會來處理打詐三法的原意\n那其實會通過的草案內容可能目前為止可能還不是那麼確定但是根據我們之前開會的所得其實就這個詐欺一千萬元以上可能列為這個巨額的詐欺巨額詐欺罪會成為這個三年以上十年以下的重罪的案件對那是這個所謂巨額詐欺罪他是指一次一次\n犯罪行為一千萬以上還是累計應該是才累計不過這個還是要看他草案的內容所以最後去當然最後還沒確定但等監議院會但是你所看到提到院會的草案內容裡面是累計的還是不過這個是跟贅述有關係就是說如果他詐欺的過程中他持續性的詐欺這個金額當然是累計\n好 這個部分齁 這個部分我們等這個最後我們看到這個條文齁可能有很多部分可能要以他最後版本為準對 當然是以最後版本為準齁那但是有關於這個大型網路平台要求在台灣要指定代理人像TikTok這些大型網路平台因為我們現在目前整個\n查緝、詐欺犯罪最大、碰到最大困難就在這網路平台的部分這部分我們目前我看到的辦法是要求這些大型網路平台在台灣必須要指定法律代理人\n那這個另外有關於巨額詐欺加重罪有關於這個三犯不得假釋或者是這個窩裡反條款這些部分我們都希望說到時候我們看到確定的法案之後這部分可能再跟這個相關的執行單位我們再來討論好不好兩位請回\n好那接下來接下來我是先請這個這個阿等一下這個這個秘書長你還是還是稍微留步齁有關於我們這個今天的主題啦齁我們這個民事民事大法庭裁定了齁裁定有關於這個授權保單該作為可作為執行標的的部分齁這部分這個\n究竟這個人壽保險他有沒有這個一身專屬性是不是屬於一身專屬性的權利在法律上面當然還有一些爭議但是我們既然我們大法庭這民事大法庭做了統一的見解但這個統一見解做下去之後為什麼今天會召開這樣的會剛才各個單位的報告也都聽到了也都聽到就是他事實上剛才我看到我們司法院自己的報告也提到我們這個北檢跟市檢\n的這個不堪負荷,負荷非常沉重,就因為通過這個見解,所以事實上不只是我們這個法院案件增加的負荷而已,事實上四大增加,民眾的抱怨也增加,很多\n民眾的抱怨再來保險公司跟保險公會的負擔也增加因為你們這過程你們要查詢你們要查詢這個保單所以保險公會跟保險公司他的負擔也增加再來我們民意代表接受的陳情也增加量真的增加很大\n所以這個我們還是事實上需要解決啦我剛剛有看到你們的這個報告裡面有關這個這一年來這個民事大法庭做出這個統一的見解之後這一年來所增加的幅度將近到三成耶三成是相當可怕的數字啊那這個後續的狀況齁這個有很多部分可能\n市長請報告\n市長好久不見歡迎你今天到司法法制委員會來了我剛看到你們的報告你們提到就今天的這個主題你們提到說儘管會有四大因應作為四大因應作為那我這個我剛所講的狀況包括我們司法院秘書長說他是重災區法院的案件增加量是重災區事實上保險公司跟保險公會我想這個\n局長應該非常清楚他們負擔增加的狀況是驚人所以我們還是要看金管會的因應作為金管會的因應作為在報告裡面提到四大因應作為第一個是說要求保險業主動關懷保險契約遭強制執行戶\n這部分其實他就是增加保險業的業者的增加他的這個負擔嘛是第二個要求受險公司提供覆約延續條款這部分我看你們已經做了啦你們在這個去年的12月你們已經發了一個人身保險商品審查應注意事項已經讓他讓他這個包括他有沒有\n報告委員因為互約是一年\n但是你們再來你們提到說你們要執行這個機關簡化\n我們已經在擬這個條文了就是已經滿久了捏\n因為這件事情應該是上個月我們的那個有沒有包括這個受益人介入的制度\n有,因為我們有一個委員研究計畫,所以我們會把受益人……大概修法兩個重點,第一個就是明定這個保障型的契約不能不予強制執行,這是第一個重點。第二個就是受益人的介入制度,這個部分要納入,要引入,對不對?對,這個齁,我是\n因為這個東西牽涉到事實上現在我們知道現在這樣亂象但是其實政府各單位其實也在運用這個方式在進行強制執行我們今天國稅署在這裡\n他們這個光去年去年透過這個這個人壽保單的強制執行去年就追回追回的這個這個這個款項都到兩億多的是不是對不對兩億多這就是就是這個所以你們這個未來如果如果修法啊不只這個中華電信\n是。\n我們會盡快來處理我們近期會召開公聽會大概應該是現在是五月我們大概五月底之前會先召開過第一次的那個跟業者還有我們會邀執行機關一起來\n五月底召開公認會我們照這個進度盡快的把修法完成不然我剛剛講四大負擔包括我們自己今天司法院就在這裡講重災區這個我們盡快加速來進行\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:15.640 --> 00:19.969\n主席我們先請司法院秘書長好請吳秘書長委員好\n\n00:27.237 --> 00:45.045\n秘書長,我們根據行政院所通過的有關於詐欺犯罪危害防治條例草案還有洗錢防治法、科技偵查法、通訊保障監察法等等幾項\n\n00:50.647 --> 01:09.792\n這個我們行政院他把他整個作為一個打砸專法那這個部分現在他這個行政院他已經他我個人還沒有看到法條內容但是我在新聞上面看到這個這個他的整個打砸專法的方向這部分請問司法院這邊了解嗎\n\n01:11.192 --> 01:30.744\n在這過程當中那行政院還有法務部那在這個制定這些打詐專法的時候司法院都全力配合每一次通知的開會我們都有這個那個主席都會參加主席來請黃市長\n\n01:40.465 --> 01:56.553\n委員好市長好這個你是不是大概我大概你對這個行政院所推出這個打詐專法的部分你個人了不了解抱歉因為我是行政執行署這個是屬於那個我們檢察司的\n\n01:57.659 --> 02:10.470\n好那這個那還那好這個那你請回來你不了解這個這個秘書長這個部分你個人對於對於這個這個目前行政院所推出的打砸專法\n\n02:11.533 --> 02:30.343\n的內容,你現在,你個人有沒有掌握?都有掌握,因為我們刑事廳都隨時都要回報,每一次參加會議齁,這個都要有這個這個推出來我個人是非常肯定,行政院這樣子他把這個,大概是把這幾年來這個\n\n02:32.424 --> 02:54.068\n我們這些所謂民眾對詐騙集團以及從我們從這個包括刑事案件包括這個法務部包括這個各金融單位大家在這個這幾年裡面在打詐的過程中所碰到的大概幾個法律上面的問題我們一一要把它解決當然這個修法的結果他能不能解決這個還是一個問題但是\n\n02:56.869 --> 03:23.580\n是不是這裡面有關幾個尤其是例如說像這個這個大型網路平台啦齁那像我們我知道這次好像增列了這個巨額詐欺罪齁那我個人但是我個人因為還沒有看到法條所以我不太清楚這巨額詐欺罪是指一次犯罪行為還是還是這個這個這個以這個這個行為人為單位他所累計的的詐騙金額呢這部分\n\n03:24.900 --> 03:29.024\n據我們了解那個行政院今天早上應該會開院會來處理打詐三法的原意\n\n03:40.734 --> 04:04.420\n那其實會通過的草案內容可能目前為止可能還不是那麼確定但是根據我們之前開會的所得其實就這個詐欺一千萬元以上可能列為這個巨額的詐欺巨額詐欺罪會成為這個三年以上十年以下的重罪的案件對那是這個所謂巨額詐欺罪他是指一次一次\n\n04:05.765 --> 04:27.032\n犯罪行為一千萬以上還是累計應該是才累計不過這個還是要看他草案的內容所以最後去當然最後還沒確定但等監議院會但是你所看到提到院會的草案內容裡面是累計的還是不過這個是跟贅述有關係就是說如果他詐欺的過程中他持續性的詐欺這個金額當然是累計\n\n04:29.090 --> 04:47.553\n好這個部分齁這個部分我們等這個最後我們看到這個條文齁可能有很多部分可能要以他最後版本為準對當然是以最後版本為準齁那但是有關於這個大型網路平台要求在台灣要指定代理人像TikTok這些大型網路平台因為我們現在目前整個\n\n04:48.334 --> 04:59.691\n查緝、詐欺犯罪最大、碰到最大困難就在這網路平台的部分這部分我們目前我看到的辦法是要求這些大型網路平台在台灣必須要指定法律代理人\n\n05:00.731 --> 05:21.538\n那這個另外有關於巨額詐欺加重罪有關於這個三犯不得假釋或者是這個窩裡反條款這些部分我們都希望說到時候我們看到確定的法案之後這部分可能再跟這個相關的執行單位我們再來討論好不好兩位請回\n\n05:24.244 --> 05:44.436\n好那接下來接下來我是先請這個這個阿等一下這個這個秘書長你還是還是稍微留步齁有關於我們這個今天的主題啦齁我們這個民事民事大法庭裁定了齁裁定有關於這個授權保單該作為可作為執行標的的部分齁這部分這個\n\n05:48.140 --> 06:13.676\n究竟這個人壽保險他有沒有這個一身專屬性是不是屬於一身專屬性的權利在法律上面當然還有一些爭議但是我們既然我們大法庭這民事大法庭做了統一的見解但這個統一見解做下去之後為什麼今天會召開這樣的會剛才各個單位的報告也都聽到了也都聽到就是他事實上剛才我看到我們司法院自己的報告也提到我們這個北檢跟市檢\n\n06:15.219 --> 06:28.812\n的這個不堪負荷,負荷非常沉重,就因為通過這個見解,所以事實上不只是我們這個法院案件增加的負荷而已,事實上四大增加,民眾的抱怨也增加,很多\n\n06:30.193 --> 06:45.325\n民眾的抱怨再來保險公司跟保險公會的負擔也增加因為你們這過程你們要查詢你們要查詢這個保單所以保險公會跟保險公司他的負擔也增加再來我們民意代表接受的陳情也增加量真的增加很大\n\n06:48.211 --> 07:13.777\n所以這個我們還是事實上需要解決啦我剛剛有看到你們的這個報告裡面有關這個這一年來這個民事大法庭做出這個統一的見解之後這一年來所增加的幅度將近到三成耶三成是相當可怕的數字啊那這個後續的狀況齁這個有很多部分可能\n\n07:15.350 --> 07:15.390\n市長請報告\n\n07:38.413 --> 08:04.924\n市長好久不見歡迎你今天到司法法制委員會來了我剛看到你們的報告你們提到就今天的這個主題你們提到說儘管會有四大因應作為四大因應作為那我這個我剛所講的狀況包括我們司法院秘書長說他是重災區法院的案件增加量是重災區事實上保險公司跟保險公會我想這個\n\n08:06.624 --> 08:21.837\n局長應該非常清楚他們負擔增加的狀況是驚人所以我們還是要看金管會的因應作為金管會的因應作為在報告裡面提到四大因應作為第一個是說要求保險業主動關懷保險契約遭強制執行戶\n\n08:26.389 --> 08:50.795\n這部分其實他就是增加保險業的業者的增加他的這個負擔嘛是第二個要求受險公司提供覆約延續條款這部分我看你們已經做了啦你們在這個去年的12月你們已經發了一個人身保險商品審查應注意事項已經讓他讓他這個包括他有沒有\n\n08:55.390 --> 08:55.870\n報告委員因為互約是一年\n\n09:19.650 --> 09:21.191\n但是你們再來你們提到說你們要執行這個機關簡化\n\n09:46.420 --> 09:48.201\n我們已經在擬這個條文了就是已經滿久了捏\n\n10:14.752 --> 10:24.543\n因為這件事情應該是上個月我們的那個有沒有包括這個受益人介入的制度\n\n10:25.219 --> 10:40.612\n有,因為我們有一個委員研究計畫,所以我們會把受益人……大概修法兩個重點,第一個就是明定這個保障型的契約不能不予強制執行,這是第一個重點。第二個就是受益人的介入制度,這個部分要納入,要引入,對不對?對,這個齁,我是\n\n10:46.958 --> 11:00.290\n因為這個東西牽涉到事實上現在我們知道現在這樣亂象但是其實政府各單位其實也在運用這個方式在進行強制執行我們今天國稅署在這裡\n\n11:01.948 --> 11:19.823\n他們這個光去年去年透過這個這個人壽保單的強制執行去年就追回追回的這個這個這個款項都到兩億多的是不是對不對兩億多這就是就是這個所以你們這個未來如果如果修法啊不只這個中華電信\n\n11:21.024 --> 11:21.044\n是。\n\n11:38.363 --> 11:55.313\n我們會盡快來處理我們近期會召開公聽會大概應該是現在是五月我們大概五月底之前會先召開過第一次的那個跟業者還有我們會邀執行機關一起來\n\n11:57.554 --> 12:07.178\n五月底召開公認會我們照這個進度盡快的把修法完成不然我剛剛講四大負擔包括我們自己今天司法院就在這裡講重災區這個我們盡快加速來進行\n\n","segments":[{"start":15.64,"end":19.969,"text":"主席我們先請司法院秘書長好請吳秘書長委員好"},{"start":27.237,"end":45.045,"text":"秘書長,我們根據行政院所通過的有關於詐欺犯罪危害防治條例草案還有洗錢防治法、科技偵查法、通訊保障監察法等等幾項"},{"start":50.647,"end":69.792,"text":"這個我們行政院他把他整個作為一個打砸專法那這個部分現在他這個行政院他已經他我個人還沒有看到法條內容但是我在新聞上面看到這個這個他的整個打砸專法的方向這部分請問司法院這邊了解嗎"},{"start":71.192,"end":90.744,"text":"在這過程當中那行政院還有法務部那在這個制定這些打詐專法的時候司法院都全力配合每一次通知的開會我們都有這個那個主席都會參加主席來請黃市長"},{"start":100.465,"end":116.553,"text":"委員好市長好這個你是不是大概我大概你對這個行政院所推出這個打詐專法的部分你個人了不了解抱歉因為我是行政執行署這個是屬於那個我們檢察司的"},{"start":117.659,"end":130.47,"text":"好那這個那還那好這個那你請回來你不了解這個這個秘書長這個部分你個人對於對於這個這個目前行政院所推出的打砸專法"},{"start":131.533,"end":150.343,"text":"的內容,你現在,你個人有沒有掌握?都有掌握,因為我們刑事廳都隨時都要回報,每一次參加會議齁,這個都要有這個這個推出來我個人是非常肯定,行政院這樣子他把這個,大概是把這幾年來這個"},{"start":152.424,"end":174.068,"text":"我們這些所謂民眾對詐騙集團以及從我們從這個包括刑事案件包括這個法務部包括這個各金融單位大家在這個這幾年裡面在打詐的過程中所碰到的大概幾個法律上面的問題我們一一要把它解決當然這個修法的結果他能不能解決這個還是一個問題但是"},{"start":176.869,"end":203.58,"text":"是不是這裡面有關幾個尤其是例如說像這個這個大型網路平台啦齁那像我們我知道這次好像增列了這個巨額詐欺罪齁那我個人但是我個人因為還沒有看到法條所以我不太清楚這巨額詐欺罪是指一次犯罪行為還是還是這個這個這個以這個這個行為人為單位他所累計的的詐騙金額呢這部分"},{"start":204.9,"end":209.024,"text":"據我們了解那個行政院今天早上應該會開院會來處理打詐三法的原意"},{"start":220.734,"end":244.42,"text":"那其實會通過的草案內容可能目前為止可能還不是那麼確定但是根據我們之前開會的所得其實就這個詐欺一千萬元以上可能列為這個巨額的詐欺巨額詐欺罪會成為這個三年以上十年以下的重罪的案件對那是這個所謂巨額詐欺罪他是指一次一次"},{"start":245.765,"end":267.032,"text":"犯罪行為一千萬以上還是累計應該是才累計不過這個還是要看他草案的內容所以最後去當然最後還沒確定但等監議院會但是你所看到提到院會的草案內容裡面是累計的還是不過這個是跟贅述有關係就是說如果他詐欺的過程中他持續性的詐欺這個金額當然是累計"},{"start":269.09,"end":287.553,"text":"好 這個部分齁 這個部分我們等這個最後我們看到這個條文齁可能有很多部分可能要以他最後版本為準對 當然是以最後版本為準齁那但是有關於這個大型網路平台要求在台灣要指定代理人像TikTok這些大型網路平台因為我們現在目前整個"},{"start":288.334,"end":299.691,"text":"查緝、詐欺犯罪最大、碰到最大困難就在這網路平台的部分這部分我們目前我看到的辦法是要求這些大型網路平台在台灣必須要指定法律代理人"},{"start":300.731,"end":321.538,"text":"那這個另外有關於巨額詐欺加重罪有關於這個三犯不得假釋或者是這個窩裡反條款這些部分我們都希望說到時候我們看到確定的法案之後這部分可能再跟這個相關的執行單位我們再來討論好不好兩位請回"},{"start":324.244,"end":344.436,"text":"好那接下來接下來我是先請這個這個阿等一下這個這個秘書長你還是還是稍微留步齁有關於我們這個今天的主題啦齁我們這個民事民事大法庭裁定了齁裁定有關於這個授權保單該作為可作為執行標的的部分齁這部分這個"},{"start":348.14,"end":373.676,"text":"究竟這個人壽保險他有沒有這個一身專屬性是不是屬於一身專屬性的權利在法律上面當然還有一些爭議但是我們既然我們大法庭這民事大法庭做了統一的見解但這個統一見解做下去之後為什麼今天會召開這樣的會剛才各個單位的報告也都聽到了也都聽到就是他事實上剛才我看到我們司法院自己的報告也提到我們這個北檢跟市檢"},{"start":375.219,"end":388.812,"text":"的這個不堪負荷,負荷非常沉重,就因為通過這個見解,所以事實上不只是我們這個法院案件增加的負荷而已,事實上四大增加,民眾的抱怨也增加,很多"},{"start":390.193,"end":405.325,"text":"民眾的抱怨再來保險公司跟保險公會的負擔也增加因為你們這過程你們要查詢你們要查詢這個保單所以保險公會跟保險公司他的負擔也增加再來我們民意代表接受的陳情也增加量真的增加很大"},{"start":408.211,"end":433.777,"text":"所以這個我們還是事實上需要解決啦我剛剛有看到你們的這個報告裡面有關這個這一年來這個民事大法庭做出這個統一的見解之後這一年來所增加的幅度將近到三成耶三成是相當可怕的數字啊那這個後續的狀況齁這個有很多部分可能"},{"start":435.35,"end":435.39,"text":"市長請報告"},{"start":458.413,"end":484.924,"text":"市長好久不見歡迎你今天到司法法制委員會來了我剛看到你們的報告你們提到就今天的這個主題你們提到說儘管會有四大因應作為四大因應作為那我這個我剛所講的狀況包括我們司法院秘書長說他是重災區法院的案件增加量是重災區事實上保險公司跟保險公會我想這個"},{"start":486.624,"end":501.837,"text":"局長應該非常清楚他們負擔增加的狀況是驚人所以我們還是要看金管會的因應作為金管會的因應作為在報告裡面提到四大因應作為第一個是說要求保險業主動關懷保險契約遭強制執行戶"},{"start":506.389,"end":530.795,"text":"這部分其實他就是增加保險業的業者的增加他的這個負擔嘛是第二個要求受險公司提供覆約延續條款這部分我看你們已經做了啦你們在這個去年的12月你們已經發了一個人身保險商品審查應注意事項已經讓他讓他這個包括他有沒有"},{"start":535.39,"end":535.87,"text":"報告委員因為互約是一年"},{"start":559.65,"end":561.191,"text":"但是你們再來你們提到說你們要執行這個機關簡化"},{"start":586.42,"end":588.201,"text":"我們已經在擬這個條文了就是已經滿久了捏"},{"start":614.752,"end":624.543,"text":"因為這件事情應該是上個月我們的那個有沒有包括這個受益人介入的制度"},{"start":625.219,"end":640.612,"text":"有,因為我們有一個委員研究計畫,所以我們會把受益人……大概修法兩個重點,第一個就是明定這個保障型的契約不能不予強制執行,這是第一個重點。第二個就是受益人的介入制度,這個部分要納入,要引入,對不對?對,這個齁,我是"},{"start":646.958,"end":660.29,"text":"因為這個東西牽涉到事實上現在我們知道現在這樣亂象但是其實政府各單位其實也在運用這個方式在進行強制執行我們今天國稅署在這裡"},{"start":661.948,"end":679.823,"text":"他們這個光去年去年透過這個這個人壽保單的強制執行去年就追回追回的這個這個這個款項都到兩億多的是不是對不對兩億多這就是就是這個所以你們這個未來如果如果修法啊不只這個中華電信"},{"start":681.024,"end":681.044,"text":"是。"},{"start":698.363,"end":715.313,"text":"我們會盡快來處理我們近期會召開公聽會大概應該是現在是五月我們大概五月底之前會先召開過第一次的那個跟業者還有我們會邀執行機關一起來"},{"start":717.554,"end":727.178,"text":"五月底召開公認會我們照這個進度盡快的把修法完成不然我剛剛講四大負擔包括我們自己今天司法院就在這裡講重災區這個我們盡快加速來進行"}]}}}}