{"id":152374,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152374","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d554e30850cf792d41a661e6db04c2d4b4f9ff50c8f2c18736499d1b681a2ac7e2bac01cfa5d53fe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"11:10:33 - 11:16:38","影片長度":"00:06:05","會議時間":"2024-05-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院、法務部及金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「強制執行保單解約償債未符比例原則紛爭頻傳亂象如何解」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於司法院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。）","date":"2024-05-09","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-21"},"duration":365,"end_time":"2024-05-09T11:16:38+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-09T11:10:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":627,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（11時10分）謝謝主席。主席，有請司法院秘書長及金管會施局長。"],["主席：有請吳秘書長及施局長。"],["吳秘書長三龍：委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：因為我時間比較有限，所以我一次先把題目講完。我所關心的當然就是有關於保單借款的部分，其實我想施局長非常清楚，在疫情期間因為有保單借款的紓困，受惠的人數達到16萬424人，整個總貸金額是142.67億元，這對於許多當時的家庭來講是一場及時雨，也許不多，但是確實是讓他們有機會能夠使用。很謝謝主席特別安排今天我們討論的主題，就是它會不會變成接下來……如果未來有債權情況發生的時候，現在我在坊間聽到的是，有一些保險營業員直接跟客戶說要不要先把保單拿去借款，這樣子的話，準備金會降低，未來被強制執行的時候，金額就下降了，甚至於對於債權人來講，它就沒有那麼重要。","這個事情回到務實面來講，會變成什麼狀況？就是當有這樣的情況出來的時候，對於保險公司來講，會非常地審慎評估保單借款要保人的必要性，因為權衡之下，保險公司也要確保債權或者未來的部分。往前來推演，我想就教的是，不論是司法院或保險局，現在在強制執行的過程當中，到底保單借款的法律順位是什麼？如果就人壽保險單示範條款第十八條來講的話，保險公司一定是先扣除包括欠款等等之後，對於所剩的餘額，它可以要求拿回來；但是如果用強制執行法的話，我們都知道法的位階是高於條款及條約的，它是以依法優先受償者之外，其他的債權人是按照數額來分攤。","我剛剛先講後面這一張簡報，再講前面這個部分，是因為現在這個法在這裡，如果站在保險公司的立場，我非常擔心保單借款借出去之後，我也是債權人之一，但是如果就數額來講，我是不是平均分配的數額要比較少、要跟別人攤？但是錢是我的保單借出去的，再加上這個法規的條款跟執行法當中的位階又不對等。所以我想要就教兩位，這樣子的狀況未來有沒有可能產生？是不是請施局長先來回應，現在對於跟壽險公會溝通的過程當中，有沒有這樣的回應？有沒有可能有一個狀況是真的會變成好像後續大家都會覺得如果這個保單值錢，尤其如果是身懷巨債的人，是不是就先把保單拿去借款？如果是這樣，今天我們討論的東西都沒有什麼好說的，因為強制執行的過程中就已經「刣嘸肉」了，因為他的保單拿去借款了。"],["施局長瓊華：跟委員報告，保單借款其實是保險契約賦予要保人的權利，如果他要借款的話，其實保險公司在一定的保單價值準備金的成數之下是不可以拒絕的。"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["施局長瓊華：以目前來看，民法第三百四十條有規定，如果今天已經被扣押，扣押以後才保單借款的話，確實不能抵銷。"],["林委員楚茵：對。"],["施局長瓊華：但是如果是在……"],["林委員楚茵：扣押之前。"],["施局長瓊華：扣押之前已經行使……"],["林委員楚茵：或是他覺得自己可能還不出錢來了，就趕快先去保單借款。"],["施局長瓊華：因為扣押之前他已經行使了保單借款的話，這個部分從過去的判決來看，確實是不能……這個部分就可以行使抵銷權，不能被後面參與分配。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我想問一下司法院，如果就這個法律的位階來講的話，因為我們都知道，人壽保險單示範條款只是個條規，甚至於只是寫在保單裡頭的一個項目，但是就強制執行法來說，它的位階是比較高的，所以我們怎麼樣來因應？因為我也必須講，這些東西都需要保險公司願意配合，然後不要說我們未來執行了之後，會產生一些執行面上面的困擾，是不是要修法呢？或者是怎麼樣？有沒有跟這個金管會這邊來做一些討論？"],["周廳長玫芳：因為有幾位委員針對這個問題，其實事前都有討論過一部分，但是最後的結論還沒達成，所以這個部分如果有需要做這樣的改變是需要修法。"],["林委員楚茵：好，最後問一下施局長，跟壽險公會這邊有溝通嗎？"],["施局長瓊華：這一個部分應該壽險公會他們討論還是依照示範條款這樣一個精神在處理。"],["林委員楚茵：對。"],["施局長瓊華：也就是說，扣押前的部分，要保人還是可以行使他保單借款的權利，而且這個部分就保險公司來講，他是可以行使抵銷權。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以現在對於保險公會或者是保險公司來說，他們覺得比較要反應的是案件量突然增加，但是至於後面後續的操作上面是比較沒有爭議的部分。因為我們還是覺得雖然在法律位階上不同，但是保險的條款還是可以按照這個部分來做執行。"],["施局長瓊華：是。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝委員、謝謝秘書長。","現在我們來處理臨時提案，請宣讀。","臨時提案1：","最高法院民事大法庭於111年12月9日作出108年度台抗大字第897號裁定：「執行法院於必要時，得核發執行命令終止債務人為要保人之人壽保險契約，命第三人保險公司償付解約金。」","然實務執行面臨大量執行案件湧入，造成執行機關作業面衝擊，保早價值低仍被執行保單解約、健康/傷害險被執行至保障受損等情形，形同殺雞取卵。","為兼顧債權人、債務人及其他利害關係人權益，維護保險保障功能，建請司法院參考司法院於107年8月7日函頒之「刑事案件量刑及定執行刑參考要點」之例，會同金管會保險局，法務部執行署，壽險公會根據保單類型、解約金訂定排除範圍並設定一定金額以下解約金、理賠金不得扣押及執行等項，制定「保單強制執行參考原則」。","提案人：鍾佳濱　　莊瑞雄　　羅智強　　陳俊宇　　吳思瑤　　林楚茵　　林思銘　　吳宗憲"],["主席：現在處理臨時提案1，請問機關有無其他意見或補充、修改？莊委員請。"],["莊委員瑞雄：謝謝召委及在場委員、列席官員。這個提案，我覺得非常棒，但是是不是可以再加一個？因為以這個提案的話，我看到解決的問題是說整個保險契約終止或者解除以後，我們在債權人在執行他理賠扣押上限的問題而已，是不是也一併把它解決，再加一個我們剛剛幾位委員在質詢裡面所提到的，也請我們司法院會同金融監理機關這邊趕快去制定，參考國外的法制，增訂介入權，讓關係人可以有這個機會來參與，讓整個法制更完備，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝莊委員，我們先請機關表示意見，我們再來看有沒有更精進的方式，好不好？來，有請司法院廳長做說明。"],["周廳長玫芳：有關介入權的部分，主管機關應該是金管會，不是司法院，可能沒有辦法在同一包提案裡面解決，以上。"],["主席：這樣子，在場委員羅委員要表示意見嗎？請。"],["羅委員智強：我很認同鍾佳濱委員這個提案，事實上，我覺得現在這個問題有一個東西是不是能夠請教一下我們的主管機關？就是說一定金額以下的解約金跟理賠金不得扣押及執行，這個「一定金額」，你們有一個大概所謂的想法嗎？「一定金額」大概是多少？"],["主席：麻煩請施局長幫忙做個說明。"],["施局長瓊華：報告委員，這個部分我們還在討論，當初我們有討論到的是解約金的部分，倒還沒有討論到理賠給付的問題，我們當初初步有討論看看，那時候有算一個金額大概10萬元左右就不要，就是超過10萬元以上才去做這樣的一個強制執行，但是這個前提是我們把傷害險、健康險這些保障型的險種都已經先排除了，針對一般有儲蓄型的險種，它就適用一定金額以下不予扣押，以上。"],["主席：謝謝，還有沒有補充？我跟各位委員徵詢一下，首先，這個提案我們在完成處理後，都還可以歡迎委員加入連署，尤其是非常歡迎財政委員會的委員，因為這個案子在我們司法及法制委員會能夠處理一部分，剛剛莊委員所說的部分可能要回到財政委員會，透過財委的部分去協助推動修法，這個先做說明。","這個文字的部分，因為我剛剛看了一下，我把最後一段唸一遍，因為只有最後一段有些文字上的意見，「為兼顧債權人、債務人及其他利害關係人權益，維護保險保障功能」底下我就把它改掉，把「建請司法院參考」幾個字先拿掉，「以司法院107年8月7日函頒之……」，以括號內部的要點為例，這部分保持原來的樣子，在逗點後面寫「建請司法院會同金管會、保險局、法務部執行署、壽險公會，根據保單類型、解約金訂定排除範圍，並設定一定金額以下解約金、理賠金不得扣押及執行等項，制定『保單強制執行參考原則』。」","我想這樣才不會造成誤解，因為畢竟前面的參考要點跟後面的參考原則是兩個完全不同類型的東西，所以我們把它作為一個例，然後再建請司法院來會同其他相關機關訂定。請問各位委員，如果文字上這樣修改是否可行？可以喔！好，請問在場委員還有沒有其他的修正意見？沒有的話，我們就照修正後文字通過，謝謝。","作會議程序的宣告，先處理會議時間，上午會議時間繼續進行至議程所列事項含預算解凍案均處理完畢為止。","接下來請李委員坤城詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":122,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-21","speakers":["鍾佳濱","沈發惠","陳俊宇","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","林思銘","黃國昌","吳思瑤","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:21,488\n如果說在未來有這個債權情況發生的時候那麼現在我在房間聽到的是有一些保險的營業員他直接會跟你講說那你要不要先把你的保單拿去做借款這樣子的話你的準備金會降低那降低未來被強制執行的時候那他的金額就下降了\n\n5\n00:01:22,372 --> 00:01:23,073\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算\n\n6\n00:01:39,964 --> 00:01:59,833\n要保人他的必要性因為這個權衡之下對於保險公司來講我也要確保我的債權或者是說我未來的部分那我往前來推演就是我想就教的是不論司法院或是保險局那就是當我們現在這個強制執行的過程當中到底保單借款的法律順位是什麼\n\n7\n00:02:00,453 --> 00:02:23,434\n如果就我們人壽保險的示範條款第18條來講的話保險公司他一定是有上述的包括欠款啊然後扣除之後那麼所剩的餘額他可以要求拿回來但是如果用強制執行法的話我們都知道法的位階是高於這個所謂的條款跟條約的他是以依法優先受償者之外\n\n8\n00:02:24,355 --> 00:02:51,133\n其他的債權人是按照數額來分攤我剛剛先想後面這一張再講前面這個部分是因為現在這個法在這裡我如果站在保險公司的立場我非常擔心的是我保單借款借出去之後我也是債權人之一但是如果就數額來講我是不是平均分配的數額要比較少要跟別人攤但是錢是我保單借出去的啊那再加上這個法規的條款跟執行法\n\n9\n00:02:54,264 --> 00:03:18,377\n執行法當中的未接又不對等所以我想要就教兩位這樣子的狀況未來有沒有可能產生我是不是先請施局長先來回應現在對於受險工會他們在面臨所給予的溝通的過程當中有沒有這樣的回應那有沒有可能有一個狀況是真的會變成是好像後續大家都會覺得說我如果這個保單值錢\n\n10\n00:03:20,478 --> 00:03:33,821\n尤其是我如果是身懷巨債的人我是不是就先把我的保單拿去把它借了那這樣今天我們討論的東西都沒有什麼好說的了因為你強制執行的過程中都已經貸沒吧因為他借款了\n\n11\n00:03:36,957 --> 00:03:56,363\n保單借款其實是我們保險企業賦予這個要保人的一個權利那如果他要借款的話其實保險公司在一定的保單價值準備金的陳述之下他是不可以拒絕的那以目前來看的話民法340條有規定啦\n\n12\n00:03:58,323 --> 00:03:59,024\n司法院主席\n\n13\n00:04:15,575 --> 00:04:29,366\n因為扣押之前他已經行使的保單借款的話這個部分從過去的那個判決確實是不能這個部分就可以行使抵交權不能被後面參與分配\n\n14\n00:04:31,067 --> 00:04:40,135\n那麼我想問一下司法院就是說如果就這個法律的位階來講的話因為我們都知道這個人壽保險的示範條例只是個條規甚至於只是寫在保單裡頭的一個項目但是就強制執行法來說的話它的位階是比較高的所以我們怎麼樣來因應因為我也必須講喔這些東西都需要保險公司願意配合\n\n15\n00:04:50,945 --> 00:04:52,246\n最後問一下市局長,那麼跟受險公會這邊有溝通嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:21,835 --> 00:05:27,727\n這一個部分應該受選工會他們討論還是依照示範條款的這樣的一個精神啦對\n\n17\n00:05:29,568 --> 00:05:36,233\n所以現在對於保險公會或者是保險公司來說他們比較覺得反映的是突然案件量增加但是至於後面的後續的操作上面是比較沒有爭議的部分\n\n18\n00:05:54,207 --> 00:06:03,494\n因為我們還是覺得就雖然說在法律位階上不同但是保險的條款還是可以按照這個部分來做執行是是好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9155\t14019\t主席有請我們司法院的秘書長跟我們金管會市局長有請吳秘書長跟市局長委員好\n22254\t40885\t因為我時間比較有限所以說我一次先把這個題目先講完我想我所關心的當然就是有關於這個保單借款的部分其實我想施局長非常清楚我們在這個疫情期間因為有這個保單借款的紓困以至於讓我們可以有受惠的人數有到16萬424人那麼整個總代金額是142.67億元\n46608\t61437\t這對於許多當時的家庭來講這確實是一個及時雨也許不多但是確實是讓他們有機會能夠來做使用那麼今天我們所討論的題目也很謝謝主席特別安排這樣的題目那就是他會變成是接下來\n62918\t81488\t如果說在未來有這個債權情況發生的時候那麼現在我在房間聽到的是有一些保險的營業員他直接會跟你講說那你要不要先把你的保單拿去做借款這樣子的話你的準備金會降低那降低未來被強制執行的時候那他的金額就下降了\n82372\t83073\t二、處理113年度中央政府總預算\n99964\t119833\t要保人他的必要性因為這個權衡之下對於保險公司來講我也要確保我的債權或者是說我未來的部分那我往前來推演就是我想就教的是不論司法院或是保險局那就是當我們現在這個強制執行的過程當中到底保單借款的法律順位是什麼\n120453\t143434\t如果就我們人壽保險的示範條款第18條來講的話保險公司他一定是有上述的包括欠款啊然後扣除之後那麼所剩的餘額他可以要求拿回來但是如果用強制執行法的話我們都知道法的位階是高於這個所謂的條款跟條約的他是以依法優先受償者之外\n144355\t171133\t其他的債權人是按照數額來分攤我剛剛先想後面這一張再講前面這個部分是因為現在這個法在這裡我如果站在保險公司的立場我非常擔心的是我保單借款借出去之後我也是債權人之一但是如果就數額來講我是不是平均分配的數額要比較少要跟別人攤但是錢是我保單借出去的啊那再加上這個法規的條款跟執行法\n174264\t198377\t執行法當中的未接又不對等所以我想要就教兩位這樣子的狀況未來有沒有可能產生我是不是先請施局長先來回應現在對於受險工會他們在面臨所給予的溝通的過程當中有沒有這樣的回應那有沒有可能有一個狀況是真的會變成是好像後續大家都會覺得說我如果這個保單值錢\n200478\t213821\t尤其是我如果是身懷巨債的人我是不是就先把我的保單拿去把它借了那這樣今天我們討論的東西都沒有什麼好說的了因為你強制執行的過程中都已經貸沒吧因為他借款了\n216957\t236363\t保單借款其實是我們保險企業賦予這個要保人的一個權利那如果他要借款的話其實保險公司在一定的保單價值準備金的陳述之下他是不可以拒絕的那以目前來看的話民法340條有規定啦\n238323\t239024\t司法院主席\n255575\t269366\t因為扣押之前他已經行使的保單借款的話這個部分從過去的那個判決確實是不能這個部分就可以行使抵交權不能被後面參與分配\n271067\t280135\t那麼我想問一下司法院就是說如果就這個法律的位階來講的話因為我們都知道這個人壽保險的示範條例只是個條規甚至於只是寫在保單裡頭的一個項目但是就強制執行法來說的話它的位階是比較高的所以我們怎麼樣來因應因為我也必須講喔這些東西都需要保險公司願意配合\n290945\t292246\t最後問一下市局長,那麼跟受險公會這邊有溝通嗎?\n321835\t327727\t這一個部分應該受選工會他們討論還是依照示範條款的這樣的一個精神啦對\n329568\t336233\t所以現在對於保險公會或者是保險公司來說他們比較覺得反映的是突然案件量增加但是至於後面的後續的操作上面是比較沒有爭議的部分\n354207\t363494\t因為我們還是覺得就雖然說在法律位階上不同但是保險的條款還是可以按照這個部分來做執行是是好謝謝\n","txt":"主席有請我們司法院的秘書長跟我們金管會市局長有請吳秘書長跟市局長委員好\n因為我時間比較有限所以說我一次先把這個題目先講完我想我所關心的當然就是有關於這個保單借款的部分其實我想施局長非常清楚我們在這個疫情期間因為有這個保單借款的紓困以至於讓我們可以有受惠的人數有到16萬424人那麼整個總代金額是142.67億元\n這對於許多當時的家庭來講這確實是一個及時雨也許不多但是確實是讓他們有機會能夠來做使用那麼今天我們所討論的題目也很謝謝主席特別安排這樣的題目那就是他會變成是接下來\n如果說在未來有這個債權情況發生的時候那麼現在我在房間聽到的是有一些保險的營業員他直接會跟你講說那你要不要先把你的保單拿去做借款這樣子的話你的準備金會降低那降低未來被強制執行的時候那他的金額就下降了\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算\n要保人他的必要性因為這個權衡之下對於保險公司來講我也要確保我的債權或者是說我未來的部分那我往前來推演就是我想就教的是不論司法院或是保險局那就是當我們現在這個強制執行的過程當中到底保單借款的法律順位是什麼\n如果就我們人壽保險的示範條款第18條來講的話保險公司他一定是有上述的包括欠款啊然後扣除之後那麼所剩的餘額他可以要求拿回來但是如果用強制執行法的話我們都知道法的位階是高於這個所謂的條款跟條約的他是以依法優先受償者之外\n其他的債權人是按照數額來分攤我剛剛先想後面這一張再講前面這個部分是因為現在這個法在這裡我如果站在保險公司的立場我非常擔心的是我保單借款借出去之後我也是債權人之一但是如果就數額來講我是不是平均分配的數額要比較少要跟別人攤但是錢是我保單借出去的啊那再加上這個法規的條款跟執行法\n執行法當中的未接又不對等所以我想要就教兩位這樣子的狀況未來有沒有可能產生我是不是先請施局長先來回應現在對於受險工會他們在面臨所給予的溝通的過程當中有沒有這樣的回應那有沒有可能有一個狀況是真的會變成是好像後續大家都會覺得說我如果這個保單值錢\n尤其是我如果是身懷巨債的人我是不是就先把我的保單拿去把它借了那這樣今天我們討論的東西都沒有什麼好說的了因為你強制執行的過程中都已經貸沒吧因為他借款了\n保單借款其實是我們保險企業賦予這個要保人的一個權利那如果他要借款的話其實保險公司在一定的保單價值準備金的陳述之下他是不可以拒絕的那以目前來看的話民法340條有規定啦\n司法院主席\n因為扣押之前他已經行使的保單借款的話這個部分從過去的那個判決確實是不能這個部分就可以行使抵交權不能被後面參與分配\n那麼我想問一下司法院就是說如果就這個法律的位階來講的話因為我們都知道這個人壽保險的示範條例只是個條規甚至於只是寫在保單裡頭的一個項目但是就強制執行法來說的話它的位階是比較高的所以我們怎麼樣來因應因為我也必須講喔這些東西都需要保險公司願意配合\n最後問一下市局長,那麼跟受險公會這邊有溝通嗎?\n這一個部分應該受選工會他們討論還是依照示範條款的這樣的一個精神啦對\n所以現在對於保險公會或者是保險公司來說他們比較覺得反映的是突然案件量增加但是至於後面的後續的操作上面是比較沒有爭議的部分\n因為我們還是覺得就雖然說在法律位階上不同但是保險的條款還是可以按照這個部分來做執行是是好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.155 --> 00:14.019\n主席有請我們司法院的秘書長跟我們金管會市局長有請吳秘書長跟市局長委員好\n\n00:22.254 --> 00:40.885\n因為我時間比較有限所以說我一次先把這個題目先講完我想我所關心的當然就是有關於這個保單借款的部分其實我想施局長非常清楚我們在這個疫情期間因為有這個保單借款的紓困以至於讓我們可以有受惠的人數有到16萬424人那麼整個總代金額是142.67億元\n\n00:46.608 --> 01:01.437\n這對於許多當時的家庭來講這確實是一個及時雨也許不多但是確實是讓他們有機會能夠來做使用那麼今天我們所討論的題目也很謝謝主席特別安排這樣的題目那就是他會變成是接下來\n\n01:02.918 --> 01:21.488\n如果說在未來有這個債權情況發生的時候那麼現在我在房間聽到的是有一些保險的營業員他直接會跟你講說那你要不要先把你的保單拿去做借款這樣子的話你的準備金會降低那降低未來被強制執行的時候那他的金額就下降了\n\n01:22.372 --> 01:23.073\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算\n\n01:39.964 --> 01:59.833\n要保人他的必要性因為這個權衡之下對於保險公司來講我也要確保我的債權或者是說我未來的部分那我往前來推演就是我想就教的是不論司法院或是保險局那就是當我們現在這個強制執行的過程當中到底保單借款的法律順位是什麼\n\n02:00.453 --> 02:23.434\n如果就我們人壽保險的示範條款第18條來講的話保險公司他一定是有上述的包括欠款啊然後扣除之後那麼所剩的餘額他可以要求拿回來但是如果用強制執行法的話我們都知道法的位階是高於這個所謂的條款跟條約的他是以依法優先受償者之外\n\n02:24.355 --> 02:51.133\n其他的債權人是按照數額來分攤我剛剛先想後面這一張再講前面這個部分是因為現在這個法在這裡我如果站在保險公司的立場我非常擔心的是我保單借款借出去之後我也是債權人之一但是如果就數額來講我是不是平均分配的數額要比較少要跟別人攤但是錢是我保單借出去的啊那再加上這個法規的條款跟執行法\n\n02:54.264 --> 03:18.377\n執行法當中的未接又不對等所以我想要就教兩位這樣子的狀況未來有沒有可能產生我是不是先請施局長先來回應現在對於受險工會他們在面臨所給予的溝通的過程當中有沒有這樣的回應那有沒有可能有一個狀況是真的會變成是好像後續大家都會覺得說我如果這個保單值錢\n\n03:20.478 --> 03:33.821\n尤其是我如果是身懷巨債的人我是不是就先把我的保單拿去把它借了那這樣今天我們討論的東西都沒有什麼好說的了因為你強制執行的過程中都已經貸沒吧因為他借款了\n\n03:36.957 --> 03:56.363\n保單借款其實是我們保險企業賦予這個要保人的一個權利那如果他要借款的話其實保險公司在一定的保單價值準備金的陳述之下他是不可以拒絕的那以目前來看的話民法340條有規定啦\n\n03:58.323 --> 03:59.024\n司法院主席\n\n04:15.575 --> 04:29.366\n因為扣押之前他已經行使的保單借款的話這個部分從過去的那個判決確實是不能這個部分就可以行使抵交權不能被後面參與分配\n\n04:31.067 --> 04:40.135\n那麼我想問一下司法院就是說如果就這個法律的位階來講的話因為我們都知道這個人壽保險的示範條例只是個條規甚至於只是寫在保單裡頭的一個項目但是就強制執行法來說的話它的位階是比較高的所以我們怎麼樣來因應因為我也必須講喔這些東西都需要保險公司願意配合\n\n04:50.945 --> 04:52.246\n最後問一下市局長,那麼跟受險公會這邊有溝通嗎?\n\n05:21.835 --> 05:27.727\n這一個部分應該受選工會他們討論還是依照示範條款的這樣的一個精神啦對\n\n05:29.568 --> 05:36.233\n所以現在對於保險公會或者是保險公司來說他們比較覺得反映的是突然案件量增加但是至於後面的後續的操作上面是比較沒有爭議的部分\n\n05:54.207 --> 06:03.494\n因為我們還是覺得就雖然說在法律位階上不同但是保險的條款還是可以按照這個部分來做執行是是好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.155,"end":14.019,"text":"主席有請我們司法院的秘書長跟我們金管會市局長有請吳秘書長跟市局長委員好"},{"start":22.254,"end":40.885,"text":"因為我時間比較有限所以說我一次先把這個題目先講完我想我所關心的當然就是有關於這個保單借款的部分其實我想施局長非常清楚我們在這個疫情期間因為有這個保單借款的紓困以至於讓我們可以有受惠的人數有到16萬424人那麼整個總代金額是142.67億元"},{"start":46.608,"end":61.437,"text":"這對於許多當時的家庭來講這確實是一個及時雨也許不多但是確實是讓他們有機會能夠來做使用那麼今天我們所討論的題目也很謝謝主席特別安排這樣的題目那就是他會變成是接下來"},{"start":62.918,"end":81.488,"text":"如果說在未來有這個債權情況發生的時候那麼現在我在房間聽到的是有一些保險的營業員他直接會跟你講說那你要不要先把你的保單拿去做借款這樣子的話你的準備金會降低那降低未來被強制執行的時候那他的金額就下降了"},{"start":82.372,"end":83.073,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":99.964,"end":119.833,"text":"要保人他的必要性因為這個權衡之下對於保險公司來講我也要確保我的債權或者是說我未來的部分那我往前來推演就是我想就教的是不論司法院或是保險局那就是當我們現在這個強制執行的過程當中到底保單借款的法律順位是什麼"},{"start":120.453,"end":143.434,"text":"如果就我們人壽保險的示範條款第18條來講的話保險公司他一定是有上述的包括欠款啊然後扣除之後那麼所剩的餘額他可以要求拿回來但是如果用強制執行法的話我們都知道法的位階是高於這個所謂的條款跟條約的他是以依法優先受償者之外"},{"start":144.355,"end":171.133,"text":"其他的債權人是按照數額來分攤我剛剛先想後面這一張再講前面這個部分是因為現在這個法在這裡我如果站在保險公司的立場我非常擔心的是我保單借款借出去之後我也是債權人之一但是如果就數額來講我是不是平均分配的數額要比較少要跟別人攤但是錢是我保單借出去的啊那再加上這個法規的條款跟執行法"},{"start":174.264,"end":198.377,"text":"執行法當中的未接又不對等所以我想要就教兩位這樣子的狀況未來有沒有可能產生我是不是先請施局長先來回應現在對於受險工會他們在面臨所給予的溝通的過程當中有沒有這樣的回應那有沒有可能有一個狀況是真的會變成是好像後續大家都會覺得說我如果這個保單值錢"},{"start":200.478,"end":213.821,"text":"尤其是我如果是身懷巨債的人我是不是就先把我的保單拿去把它借了那這樣今天我們討論的東西都沒有什麼好說的了因為你強制執行的過程中都已經貸沒吧因為他借款了"},{"start":216.957,"end":236.363,"text":"保單借款其實是我們保險企業賦予這個要保人的一個權利那如果他要借款的話其實保險公司在一定的保單價值準備金的陳述之下他是不可以拒絕的那以目前來看的話民法340條有規定啦"},{"start":238.323,"end":239.024,"text":"司法院主席"},{"start":255.575,"end":269.366,"text":"因為扣押之前他已經行使的保單借款的話這個部分從過去的那個判決確實是不能這個部分就可以行使抵交權不能被後面參與分配"},{"start":271.067,"end":280.135,"text":"那麼我想問一下司法院就是說如果就這個法律的位階來講的話因為我們都知道這個人壽保險的示範條例只是個條規甚至於只是寫在保單裡頭的一個項目但是就強制執行法來說的話它的位階是比較高的所以我們怎麼樣來因應因為我也必須講喔這些東西都需要保險公司願意配合"},{"start":290.945,"end":292.246,"text":"最後問一下市局長,那麼跟受險公會這邊有溝通嗎?"},{"start":321.835,"end":327.727,"text":"這一個部分應該受選工會他們討論還是依照示範條款的這樣的一個精神啦對"},{"start":329.568,"end":336.233,"text":"所以現在對於保險公會或者是保險公司來說他們比較覺得反映的是突然案件量增加但是至於後面的後續的操作上面是比較沒有爭議的部分"},{"start":354.207,"end":363.494,"text":"因為我們還是覺得就雖然說在法律位階上不同但是保險的條款還是可以按照這個部分來做執行是是好謝謝"}]}}}}