{"id":152415,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152415","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d7e25ee5d31e1734f6a4262aea7fb530ba70ea388d46c21f2d94006c6d412c4dced9b5e91fca9c545ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:51:34 - 10:03:42","影片長度":"00:12:08","會議時間":"2024-05-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「大學推動國際招生及臺灣優華語計畫之執行成效及檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-13","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-12"},"duration":728,"end_time":"2024-05-13T10:03:42+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-13T09:51:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":224,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時51分）謝謝主席，我們請潘部長。"],["主席：好，有請部長。"],["潘部長文忠：召委好。"],["柯委員志恩：部長，這是你最後一次以教育部長的身分站在這邊來備詢，我是第9屆的立委，我看著你這樣上來，然後在第11屆的時候也要歡送你離去，對你來說應該是感慨非常地多。我想這七年多大概是創下教育部長留任最久的一個紀錄，說實在的，部長，在這個過程當中當然你有8個月的時間因為卡管案而離開，我想卡管案不管是對你或對當時身為在野黨委員的我來說，都是一個非常大的傷痕，而且因為卡管案，我們換掉了吳茂昆部長，我們換掉了葉俊榮部長，然後在8個月之後你又重新再回來，在那個時候因為整個教育部真的是風聲鶴唳，我想沒有人膽敢來接教育部長，所以你又再一次地被請求。我之所以講這些歷史，就是要告訴你，其實你是深受高層的信任，所以你待了這七年半的時間，本席對你是給予無限的祝福，希望你未來能夠一切非常地平安順心，也能夠在我們的國教繼續發揮你的專業，特別是在國教這一塊裡面，能夠造福我們更多的學子，我給予你滿滿的祝福，因為你沒有功勞，也有非常大的苦勞。"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝召委。"],["柯委員志恩：但是話鋒一轉，各位，我們還是要來看今天的書面報告，因為我們今天如果只看教育部的規劃或數字，你會覺得好像預期政策非常地成功，但是部長，我要看到的是一個檢討，請問這份報告的檢討到底在哪裡？來，我告訴部長我很希望能夠看到哪些地方，你們告訴我有穩定成長，總數大概是11萬6,000人，但是我要問我們國際招生的方式到底是如何，是自行申請還是透過仲介的多呢？仲介費到底收了多少？篩選的機制在哪裡？還有你們每一次以獎學金吸引國際學生的方式跟比例到底是如何？然後有沒有掌握留在臺灣工作超過一年的比例？還有在學校裡面曾經被獎懲到底是不是有列為在臺灣工作的條件？還有，你們告訴大家說一週工作不要超過20小時，你們說學校有在管理，事實是如此嗎？教育部如何來監控這些學校的管理？到目前為止，有沒有外籍生違規、失聯的狀況？還有他們的比例是如何？部長，應該要把每個數字告訴我，這樣才叫做檢討報告，問題是從你們現在所提出的報告，我沒有看到對這些部分的檢討。我可以一一來跟部長討論，但是本席所條列的，而且我特別匡出來的，我麻煩部長一個月之內給我一個正確的數字，這是非常重要的，我認為這才叫做檢討。","我們就一一來看一下到底有哪些部分可以就教於部長，你看你們在第9頁說要擴大招收國際學生，然後在113年到117年的5年當中，每年投入5,000萬，表示5年要投入2.5億，那我們國發基金還要給新型專班的學生每人每年10萬，總共最多可以補助2年，企業界每個月至少給1萬的生活津貼，所以1位國際學生2年獲得44萬的補助，那你2030年要給我32萬人，請問這32萬人的獎助學金跟生活津貼到底是怎麼樣來分配的？否則這樣夯不啷噹加起來，照你們的數據看起來大概就有一千多萬，應該不是吧！請問有多少人可以獲得這些補助，部長現在有掌握這些數字嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：跟召委報告，在這當中就是只有新型專班的這部分，所以並不是所有……"],["柯委員志恩：我知道啊！所以我就問到底有多少人能夠獲得，新型專班的學生難道就可以獲得這麼多？一年44萬喔！部長，你有沒有考慮過我們臺灣年輕人的感受？這是一個相對剝奪感，我同意一定要招收所有的國際學生，但是你也很清楚，最優秀的國際學生不會來臺灣，我必須大膽地這樣去講，我在大學任教這麼多年，很多學生很認真，但是最優秀的學生是在歐美，所以我們要很多很多的學生過來，我們要祭出非常多的獎助學金，所以我今天是來就教於你，要來討論這樣的狀況，有多少學生可以領到我剛剛說的最高額？"],["潘部長文忠：那個學生的人數逐年有一個統計表，再請召委來指教，就是這個對象的學生。那這個國發基金所協助的主要是單程機票的費用，反過來應該是企業來……"],["柯委員志恩：是啊！還有企業的補助嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：企業要做的這方面，就是因為他們要履行到這個企業裡面去服務的……"],["柯委員志恩：好，很好，部長，那接下來就是我要問的問題了，你要履行，基本上要2年，請問如果沒有到2年然後拒絕了，那怎麼辦呢？他如果做半年就離開了，你有充分掌握嗎？為什麼我要特別提出這個問題？因為我們國科會在106年到109年提出了海外國人歸國的計畫，也希望你回來能夠至少留一段時間，結果你看，回來的人不多，留下的人更少，4年我們花了四億多，結果回臺131人，只留下97人，我們每天要做這樣的事情。所以企業希望他們留下來，你有掌握他們到底有多少人留下來嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，委員一開始指教的那個檢討，為什麼會提出後續的這幾個方案，其實就是檢討前面像新南向專班這個，我想委員最瞭解了，當時有些學校實在是做得非常過頭……"],["柯委員志恩：非常、非常離譜，變成奴工。"],["潘部長文忠：委員當時也有聽到很多。"],["柯委員志恩：是，那時候楊司長都還在啊！"],["潘部長文忠：對，都是在做了這些檢討後才提出，跟委員報告，這一次總共有將近200家企業去參與，那企業跟這些大學共同去招國際學生，其實會去訂一些相關的契約。"],["柯委員志恩：好，那你就把這個相關的部分，我最主要是需要知道人數，因為我覺得沒有人數、沒有金額，我都很難去認為這叫檢討報告。而且你看給外籍學生工作簽證，部長，你知不知道現在有很多人都說我們臺灣已經變成工作的快速通關管道了？部長，你來看一下，我們現在先從數據來看起，在104年的時候，其實最多的是馬來西亞，有一萬兩千多人，他可以有工作許可，然後接下來從112年到年底的時候，其實剛開始只有一萬多，到112年已經發了4萬7,000人次了；現在最多已經是越南，在104年的時候是1,164人，到112年的時候已經是1萬5,600人，增加了快12.5倍，所以我要問的是他們到底是來臺灣工作還是來念書的？部長，你讓我講完這個部分，我在學校裡面徵求非常多大學和專科學校老師的想法，有很多人拿了獎學金，可是不去上課、在外面打工，有良心的老師把關，把他給當掉，他就轉系，他因為轉系就會失去全額的獎金，他就繼續不上課，就繼續打工，然後他就可以混畢業、留下來，這是很容易的，像之前臺北發生寶林茶室事件的那位越籍代班廚師，他就是在畢業以後留下來。因為現在你們有所謂的四證合一、就業金卡，連網紅隨便都可以拿到就業金卡。你看移民署發具的工作許可、居留簽證、外僑居留證還有重入國的許可證，四證合一，你不覺得現在發證發得太過於浮濫了嗎？非常多欸！","我沒有說外國學生留下來不可以，可是你過去還有一個機制，過去你還會要求要留下來，薪資起碼要3萬塊錢以上，為了要保護，還有一個可以卡關的機制，可是你現在要衝到這麼多的人數，所以我才說你這個新南向的意義到底在哪裡？我們會非常地歡迎，但是我們最嚴肅地來說，外籍學生如果詐騙、酒駕、打架，我們沒有辦法讓他退學，可是對臺灣學生可以退學，在我當學務長的時候，有讓一些學生退學，經過一些程序，可是外籍學生到我們這邊來，我們沒有這樣一個部分，我們收的這些學生，納稅人的錢，我只是說這是一個比例原則，目前在你的檢討報告當中我沒有看到，所以為什麼我會需要這些數字、需要這些錢。還有，我告訴你，目前為止，我剛剛所說的都是教育的reality、都是現況。部長，面對這麼多，你今天這份檢討報告，說實在的，你的南向，你除了告訴我你有很多的學生，但是對我來說，那整個實質對臺灣的產業、對於我們的國際交流來說，我覺得對我來說還是要畫上一個非常大的問號。"],["潘部長文忠：跟召委報告，確實在新南向產攜國際專班的過程當中，教育部有這樣一個過程，是非常確實地逐一去做檢視。現在2萬名學生已經有5屆畢業，大概有三千多人願意留下來再繼續工作，這個是一個已經……這個占比大概是66%。而委員剛才提到的，現在為什麼我們要求學校「你要負責招生，你必須負有相當的義務」，這個對學校採取一個很嚴格的處分，當然我要跟委員報告的是，這幾所甚至委員之前提到的那些學校退場，為什麼會退場？因為教育部很清楚，如果你是這樣的方式，第一個就直接列入專輔學校……"],["柯委員志恩：因為那些學校做得太過分了，但是我剛剛所條列的這些狀況，包括外籍學生，你很難給他退學，包括外籍學生他們幾乎是打工比念書來得更重要，幾乎對於很多東南亞的學生來說，都認為臺灣就是一個打工的天堂，而且打完工之後，學校如果標準又很低，他又可以得到一些獎助學金，即使沒有獎助學金，他繼續打工，有賺錢的方法，然後你要對他發放所謂的就業金卡，這在很多東南亞國家都已經變成是他們的利多，可是對我們來說，我們花了這麼多錢讓他們過來，也給予獎助學金、給予生活補助，他們的對待跟我們本國學生又不一樣，你對我們本國學生到底公平在哪裡？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟召委報告，在我們開始推動新南向產攜初期，確實有遭遇到好多學校處理不當的，包含學生也有這方面的陳情，經過這幾年非常嚴格地去處理，我想到現在為止，這種陳情的情況應該幾乎減少，而且甚至沒有，原因是教育部本身就成立……"],["柯委員志恩：你們認為沒有，怎麼跟我的現實狀況差距這麼大？我要不要提供幾個給……"],["潘部長文忠：教育部本身就有一個陳情專案，原因就是因為從源頭我們已經做了好多的要求，這個要求是，你看你那個入學通知等等的部分，必須要到你的學生，再來，實習、打工分得清清楚楚。"],["柯委員志恩：好，部長，如果說分得清楚的話，因為他們不到教育部陳情，他們是到本席辦公室來陳情，好不好？所以無論如何，把我剛剛所條列那幾個綠字匡出來的，不管是數據、人數還有一些作法，我覺得這對我個人來說，才是今天我們安排這次所謂的檢討非常重要的一個依據。"],["潘部長文忠：好，召委剛才提了幾點，我想我就請同仁這邊把它做整理。"],["柯委員志恩：一定要整理出來，而且有很多的狀況，我還要知道目前實際的狀況如何，我想目前很多的亂象遠比……部長，請相信我們是在教育現場，我們在教育現場看到非常多學生會有這樣的狀況，所以這個部分我們還有非常大的努力空間，好了，因為我要做示範，不能讓我們的主席再站起來請我走人，所以部長，最後還是給予你最大的祝福，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員的發言。接下來由羅廷瑋委員發言。"],["主席（柯委員志恩）：接下來我們請羅廷瑋委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":446,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-12","speakers":["柯志恩","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","萬美玲","羅廷瑋","葉元之","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","張雅琳","吳春城","范雲","麥玉珍","林倩綺","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","陳秀寳"],"page_start":385,"meetin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\"end\": 585.499, \"text\": \"因為那些學校做得太過分了但是我剛所調列的這些狀況包括外籍學生你很難給他退學包括外籍學生他們幾乎把打工比念書來得更重要\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 582.637, \"end\": 583.097, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 583.097, \"end\": 583.117, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 583.117, \"end\": 583.277, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 583.277, \"end\": 583.297, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 583.297, \"end\": 583.357, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 583.357, \"end\": 583.418, \"score\": 0.069}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 583.418, \"end\": 583.438, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 583.438, \"end\": 583.538, \"score\": 0.595}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 583.538, \"end\": 583.558, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 583.558, \"end\": 583.738, \"score\": 0.645}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 583.738, \"end\": 583.758, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 583.758, 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\"end\": 689.837, \"score\": 0.613}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 689.837, \"end\": 690.037, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 690.037, \"end\": 690.418, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 690.418, \"end\": 690.618, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 690.618, \"end\": 690.778, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 690.778, \"end\": 690.798, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 691.578, \"end\": 691.658, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 691.658, \"end\": 691.678, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 691.678, \"end\": 691.698, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"潘\", \"start\": 691.698, \"end\": 691.798, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 691.798, \"end\": 691.898, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"忠\", \"start\": 691.898, \"end\": 691.918, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 691.918, \"end\": 691.938, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 691.938, \"end\": 691.958, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 715.04, \"end\": 715.06, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 715.06, \"end\": 715.08, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,593 --> 00:00:08,095\n謝謝主席我們請潘部長好有請部長\n\n2\n00:00:11,427 --> 00:00:35,864\n張維豪部長這是你最後一次以教育部長的身份站在這邊來備詢我想我是第9任的立委我看著你這樣上來然後在第11屆的時候也要歡送你離去對我來說對你來說應該是感慨非常的多我想這7年多大概是創下我們教育部長任內就是留任最大的一個記錄我說實在的部長在這個過程當中當然有8月1月時間你因為卡管案而離開我想卡管不管是對你或是對我\n\n3\n00:00:39,887 --> 00:00:43,008\n當時身為一個在野黨委員來說都是一個非常大的傷痕而且呢因為卡管案我們換掉了吳茂坤部長我們換掉了葉俊榮部長然後8個月之後呢你又重新再來我想那個時候因為整個教育部真的是風聲鶴唳我想沒有人敢來接教育部長所以你又再一次的被請求我為什麼講這些的歷史是要告訴你說其實你是深受高層的信任\n\n4\n00:01:04,256 --> 00:01:15,202\n所以說呢今天大概7年半的時間當中本席對你是給予無限的祝福希望你未來能夠一切非常的平安順心也能夠繼續發揮你的專業在我們的國教特別是在國教這一塊裡面能夠造福我們更多的學子給予滿滿的一個祝福了沒有功勞以後非常大的苦勞但是話鋒一轉各位我們還是來看我們今天的書面報告\n\n5\n00:01:27,268 --> 00:01:36,671\n因為我們今天我們如果只看教育部的規劃或數字你會覺得好像預期非常的政策很成功但是部長我要看到的是一個檢討這部分報告的檢討到底在哪裡來我告訴你你有哪些地方我很希望能夠看到的你們告訴我就說穩定成長總數大概11萬6千但是呢我要問\n\n6\n00:01:50,276 --> 00:02:11,403\n到底我們國際招生的方式到底是如何是自行申請的多呢還是透過仲介仲介費到底收了多少申選的機制在哪裡還有呢你們每一次的這個獎學金吸引國際學生的方式跟比例到底是如何然後有沒有掌握留在臺灣工作超過一年的一個比例還有在學校裡面的成金獎懲到底是不是我們列為在臺灣工作的條件還有\n\n7\n00:02:15,805 --> 00:02:15,985\n教育部長潘文忠列席\n\n8\n00:02:35,868 --> 00:02:40,330\n問題是你們現在所看到的我沒有看到這些檢討報告我可以一一來跟部長討論但是本席所條列的而且我用這個特別框出來的我麻煩部長一個月之內給我一個正確的數字這是非常重要這是我認為的這才叫做檢討那我們就一一來去看一下到底哪些部分可以就教育部長的你看\n\n9\n00:02:55,678 --> 00:02:59,140\n我們從P9月你第9月就開始說要擴大招生國際的這個學生然後呢113到145年當中的每年投入5000萬表示5年要投租了2.5億喔那我們國發基金外還要給這個新型專班的學生每人每年10萬總共最多可以補助兩年企業界每個月至少1萬生活津貼所以因為國際學生兩年獲得44萬的補助\n\n10\n00:03:25,418 --> 00:03:26,019\n請問有多少人是可以獲得這些補助?\n\n11\n00:03:43,789 --> 00:03:44,730\n部長現在有掌握這些數字嗎?部長你有沒有考慮我們台灣年輕人的感受\n\n12\n00:04:04,128 --> 00:04:26,042\n這是一個相對剝奪感我同意一定要招收所有的國際的學生但是你也很清楚最優秀的國際學生不會來臺灣我必須大膽的這樣去講我在大學任教這麼多很多學生很認真但是最優秀的學生是在歐美所以我們要很多很多的學生過來我們要寄出非常多的獎助學金所以我今天是來就教育來討論這樣的狀況所以有多少學生是0可以領到我剛剛說的最高額\n\n13\n00:04:31,701 --> 00:04:34,544\n學生的人數昨年有一個統計表再請召委來指教就是這個對象的學生國發基金所協助的主要是單程的機票的費用反過來應該是企業要做的這方面是因為他們要旅行到這個企業裡面去服務的\n\n14\n00:04:55,885 --> 00:04:55,985\n主席\n\n15\n00:05:15,942 --> 00:05:15,982\n主席\n\n16\n00:05:27,729 --> 00:05:42,658\n跟委員報告當然這個委員剛才一開始只叫那個檢討這個為什麼會有提出後續的這幾個方案其實就是檢討前面像新南向專班這個我想委員最了解的當時有些學校實在是做得非常過頭非常非常離譜當時也聽到很多那時候楊司長都還在啊\n\n17\n00:05:48,342 --> 00:05:48,362\n好﹗\n\n18\n00:06:04,792 --> 00:06:06,473\n國際招生及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第1會期教育及文化委員會\n\n19\n00:06:27,386 --> 00:06:29,148\n一百零四年一百一十六人一百一十二年一萬五千六\n\n20\n00:07:04,972 --> 00:07:08,393\n有良心的老師把關,把他給當掉,他就轉系。那樣的轉系呢,他會失去全額的獎金,他就繼續不上課,就繼續給你打工。然後呢,他就可以混畢業留下來。很容易,像我目前臺北發生的這個寶林茶室的那位月籍的代班廚師,他就是畢業留下來的。\n\n21\n00:07:24,699 --> 00:07:37,243\n因為現在的證照你們所謂的這個四證合一的你們的就業金卡連網紅隨便都可以拿到就業金卡你看移民署發具的工作許可居留簽證外僑居留證還有從入國許這個從入國的許可這四證合一你不覺得現在有人這樣的一個證發的太過於腐爛了嗎\n\n22\n00:07:48,378 --> 00:08:10,287\n我沒有說外國學生留下來不可以可是你過去還有一個機制過去你還會要求你要留下來薪資起碼要三萬塊錢以上還有一些可以卡關的一個機制因為要保護所以你現在為了要讓這麼多人你要衝到這麼多的人數所以我才說嘛你的新能向意義到底在哪裡我們會非常的歡迎但是呢就我們以前來最最嚴肅的來說外籍學生如果詐騙酒駕打架\n\n23\n00:08:14,429 --> 00:08:19,051\n我們沒有辦法給他退學臺灣學生可以退學我當學務長的時候退學的一些的學生經過一些程序可是外籍學生到我們這邊來我們沒有這樣子的一個部分我們到底收的這些學生納稅人的錢我只是說這是一個比例的原則我目前在你的檢討報告當中我沒有看到\n\n24\n00:08:34,099 --> 00:08:45,245\n所以為什麼我要需要這些數字我需要這些錢還有我告訴你目前為止我剛所說的都是教育的reality都是現況部長面對這麼多你今天這份檢討報告我說實在的我不覺得你的南向你出來告訴我你有很多的學生但是對我來說那整個實質對臺灣產業對於我們的國際交流來說我覺得還是對我來說還是要畫上一個非常大的問號\n\n25\n00:08:58,412 --> 00:09:00,535\n教育部有這樣的一個過程裡面是非常確實的去逐一的去做檢視那現在兩萬的學生已經有五屆畢業大概三千多人\n\n26\n00:09:15,373 --> 00:09:40,675\n他其實是願意留下來再繼續工作這個是一個已經這個佔比例大概66%那委員剛才提到的現在為什麼我們要求學校你要負責招生你必須負有相當的義務這個對學校採取一個很嚴格的處分我要跟委員報告的是這幾所甚至委員之前你提到的那些學校退場為什麼會退場因為教育部很清楚的\n\n27\n00:09:42,637 --> 00:09:45,499\n因為那些學校做得太過分了但是我剛所調列的這些狀況包括外籍學生你很難給他退學包括外籍學生他們幾乎把打工比念書來得更重要\n\n28\n00:09:58,126 --> 00:10:19,498\n那幾乎對於很多東南亞的學生來說都認為臺灣就是一個打工的天堂因為而且打完工之後呢學校如果說標準又很低他又可以得到一些的獎助學金即使沒有獎助學金他繼續打工的賺錢的方法然後你要把他發放這個所謂的藉由金卡這在很多東南亞國家都已經變成是他們的利多可對我們來說的話我們花了這麼多錢給他們過來又給獎助學金給生活補助他們的對待跟我們本國學生又不一樣\n\n29\n00:10:27,662 --> 00:10:27,942\n您對本國學生公平在哪裏?\n\n30\n00:10:52,535 --> 00:10:57,919\n教育部本身就有一個陳情專案因為我們說從源頭我們已經做了好多的要求這個要求是你看你那個入學通知等等的部分必須要到你的學生再來實習打工分得清清楚楚\n\n31\n00:11:15,131 --> 00:11:30,798\n布長,如果說分得清楚的話,因為他們不到你教育部陳請,他們到我本席辦公室來陳請,好不好?所以無論如何,把我剛剛所條列那幾個綠色框出來的,不管是數據,還是人數,還有一些的做法,我覺得這對我個人來說才是今天我們安排這次所謂的\n\n32\n00:11:31,578 --> 00:11:31,958\n請教育部長潘文忠列席\n\n33\n00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:55,080\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5593\t8095\t謝謝主席 我們請潘部長好 有請部長\n11427\t35864\t張維豪部長這是你最後一次以教育部長的身份站在這邊來備詢我想我是第9任的立委我看著你這樣上來然後在第11屆的時候也要歡送你離去對我來說對你來說應該是感慨非常的多我想這7年多大概是創下我們教育部長任內就是留任最大的一個記錄我說實在的部長在這個過程當中當然有8月1月時間你因為卡管案而離開我想卡管不管是對你或是對我\n39887\t43008\t當時身為一個在野黨委員來說都是一個非常大的傷痕而且呢因為卡管案我們換掉了吳茂坤部長我們換掉了葉俊榮部長然後8個月之後呢你又重新再來我想那個時候因為整個教育部真的是風聲鶴唳我想沒有人敢來接教育部長所以你又再一次的被請求我為什麼講這些的歷史是要告訴你說其實你是深受高層的信任\n64256\t75202\t所以說呢今天大概7年半的時間當中本席對你是給予無限的祝福希望你未來能夠一切非常的平安順心也能夠繼續發揮你的專業在我們的國教特別是在國教這一塊裡面能夠造福我們更多的學子給予滿滿的一個祝福了沒有功勞以後非常大的苦勞但是話鋒一轉各位我們還是來看我們今天的書面報告\n87268\t96671\t因為我們今天我們如果只看教育部的規劃或數字你會覺得好像預期非常的政策很成功但是部長我要看到的是一個檢討這部分報告的檢討到底在哪裡來我告訴你你有哪些地方我很希望能夠看到的你們告訴我就說穩定成長總數大概11萬6千但是呢我要問\n110276\t131403\t到底我們國際招生的方式到底是如何是自行申請的多呢還是透過仲介仲介費到底收了多少申選的機制在哪裡還有呢你們每一次的這個獎學金吸引國際學生的方式跟比例到底是如何然後有沒有掌握留在臺灣工作超過一年的一個比例還有在學校裡面的成金獎懲到底是不是我們列為在臺灣工作的條件還有\n135805\t135985\t教育部長潘文忠列席\n155868\t160330\t問題是你們現在所看到的我沒有看到這些檢討報告我可以一一來跟部長討論但是本席所條列的而且我用這個特別框出來的我麻煩部長一個月之內給我一個正確的數字這是非常重要這是我認為的這才叫做檢討那我們就一一來去看一下到底哪些部分可以就教育部長的你看\n175678\t179140\t我們從P9月你第9月就開始說要擴大招生國際的這個學生然後呢113到145年當中的每年投入5000萬表示5年要投租了2.5億喔那我們國發基金外還要給這個新型專班的學生每人每年10萬總共最多可以補助兩年企業界每個月至少1萬生活津貼所以因為國際學生兩年獲得44萬的補助\n205418\t206019\t請問有多少人是可以獲得這些補助?\n223789\t224730\t部長現在有掌握這些數字嗎?部長你有沒有考慮我們台灣年輕人的感受\n244128\t266042\t這是一個相對剝奪感我同意一定要招收所有的國際的學生但是你也很清楚最優秀的國際學生不會來臺灣我必須大膽的這樣去講我在大學任教這麼多很多學生很認真但是最優秀的學生是在歐美所以我們要很多很多的學生過來我們要寄出非常多的獎助學金所以我今天是來就教育來討論這樣的狀況所以有多少學生是0可以領到我剛剛說的最高額\n271701\t274544\t學生的人數昨年有一個統計表再請召委來指教就是這個對象的學生國發基金所協助的主要是單程的機票的費用反過來應該是企業要做的這方面是因為他們要旅行到這個企業裡面去服務的\n295885\t295985\t主席\n315942\t315982\t主席\n327729\t342658\t跟委員報告當然這個委員剛才一開始只叫那個檢討這個為什麼會有提出後續的這幾個方案其實就是檢討前面像新南向專班這個我想委員最了解的當時有些學校實在是做得非常過頭非常非常離譜當時也聽到很多那時候楊司長都還在啊\n348342\t348362\t好﹗\n364792\t366473\t國際招生及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第1會期教育及文化委員會\n387386\t389148\t一百零四年一百一十六人一百一十二年一萬五千六\n409548\t424872\t﹏﹏\n424972\t428393\t有良心的老師把關,把他給當掉,他就轉系。那樣的轉系呢,他會失去全額的獎金,他就繼續不上課,就繼續給你打工。然後呢,他就可以混畢業留下來。很容易,像我目前臺北發生的這個寶林茶室的那位月籍的代班廚師,他就是畢業留下來的。\n444699\t457243\t因為現在的證照你們所謂的這個四證合一的你們的就業金卡連網紅隨便都可以拿到就業金卡你看移民署發具的工作許可居留簽證外僑居留證還有從入國許這個從入國的許可這四證合一你不覺得現在有人這樣的一個證發的太過於腐爛了嗎\n468378\t490287\t我沒有說外國學生留下來不可以可是你過去還有一個機制過去你還會要求你要留下來薪資起碼要三萬塊錢以上還有一些可以卡關的一個機制因為要保護所以你現在為了要讓這麼多人你要衝到這麼多的人數所以我才說嘛你的新能向意義到底在哪裡我們會非常的歡迎但是呢就我們以前來最最嚴肅的來說外籍學生如果詐騙酒駕打架\n494429\t499051\t我們沒有辦法給他退學臺灣學生可以退學我當學務長的時候退學的一些的學生經過一些程序可是外籍學生到我們這邊來我們沒有這樣子的一個部分我們到底收的這些學生納稅人的錢我只是說這是一個比例的原則我目前在你的檢討報告當中我沒有看到\n514099\t525245\t所以為什麼我要需要這些數字我需要這些錢還有我告訴你目前為止我剛所說的都是教育的reality都是現況部長面對這麼多你今天這份檢討報告我說實在的我不覺得你的南向你出來告訴我你有很多的學生但是對我來說那整個實質對臺灣產業對於我們的國際交流來說我覺得還是對我來說還是要畫上一個非常大的問號\n538412\t540535\t教育部有這樣的一個過程裡面是非常確實的去逐一的去做檢視那現在兩萬的學生已經有五屆畢業大概三千多人\n555373\t580675\t他其實是願意留下來再繼續工作這個是一個已經這個佔比例大概66%那委員剛才提到的現在為什麼我們要求學校你要負責招生你必須負有相當的義務這個對學校採取一個很嚴格的處分我要跟委員報告的是這幾所甚至委員之前你提到的那些學校退場為什麼會退場因為教育部很清楚的\n582637\t585499\t因為那些學校做得太過分了但是我剛所調列的這些狀況包括外籍學生你很難給他退學包括外籍學生他們幾乎把打工比念書來得更重要\n598126\t619498\t那幾乎對於很多東南亞的學生來說都認為臺灣就是一個打工的天堂因為而且打完工之後呢學校如果說標準又很低他又可以得到一些的獎助學金即使沒有獎助學金他繼續打工的賺錢的方法然後你要把他發放這個所謂的藉由金卡這在很多東南亞國家都已經變成是他們的利多可對我們來說的話我們花了這麼多錢給他們過來又給獎助學金給生活補助他們的對待跟我們本國學生又不一樣\n627662\t627942\t您對本國學生公平在哪裏?\n652535\t657919\t教育部本身就有一個陳情專案因為我們說從源頭我們已經做了好多的要求這個要求是你看你那個入學通知等等的部分必須要到你的學生再來實習打工分得清清楚楚\n675131\t690798\t布長,如果說分得清楚的話,因為他們不到你教育部陳請,他們到我本席辦公室來陳請,好不好?所以無論如何,把我剛剛所條列那幾個綠色框出來的,不管是數據,還是人數,還有一些的做法,我覺得這對我個人來說才是今天我們安排這次所謂的\n691578\t691958\t請教育部長潘文忠列席\n715040\t715080\t主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請潘部長好 有請部長\n張維豪部長這是你最後一次以教育部長的身份站在這邊來備詢我想我是第9任的立委我看著你這樣上來然後在第11屆的時候也要歡送你離去對我來說對你來說應該是感慨非常的多我想這7年多大概是創下我們教育部長任內就是留任最大的一個記錄我說實在的部長在這個過程當中當然有8月1月時間你因為卡管案而離開我想卡管不管是對你或是對我\n當時身為一個在野黨委員來說都是一個非常大的傷痕而且呢因為卡管案我們換掉了吳茂坤部長我們換掉了葉俊榮部長然後8個月之後呢你又重新再來我想那個時候因為整個教育部真的是風聲鶴唳我想沒有人敢來接教育部長所以你又再一次的被請求我為什麼講這些的歷史是要告訴你說其實你是深受高層的信任\n所以說呢今天大概7年半的時間當中本席對你是給予無限的祝福希望你未來能夠一切非常的平安順心也能夠繼續發揮你的專業在我們的國教特別是在國教這一塊裡面能夠造福我們更多的學子給予滿滿的一個祝福了沒有功勞以後非常大的苦勞但是話鋒一轉各位我們還是來看我們今天的書面報告\n因為我們今天我們如果只看教育部的規劃或數字你會覺得好像預期非常的政策很成功但是部長我要看到的是一個檢討這部分報告的檢討到底在哪裡來我告訴你你有哪些地方我很希望能夠看到的你們告訴我就說穩定成長總數大概11萬6千但是呢我要問\n到底我們國際招生的方式到底是如何是自行申請的多呢還是透過仲介仲介費到底收了多少申選的機制在哪裡還有呢你們每一次的這個獎學金吸引國際學生的方式跟比例到底是如何然後有沒有掌握留在臺灣工作超過一年的一個比例還有在學校裡面的成金獎懲到底是不是我們列為在臺灣工作的條件還有\n教育部長潘文忠列席\n問題是你們現在所看到的我沒有看到這些檢討報告我可以一一來跟部長討論但是本席所條列的而且我用這個特別框出來的我麻煩部長一個月之內給我一個正確的數字這是非常重要這是我認為的這才叫做檢討那我們就一一來去看一下到底哪些部分可以就教育部長的你看\n我們從P9月你第9月就開始說要擴大招生國際的這個學生然後呢113到145年當中的每年投入5000萬表示5年要投租了2.5億喔那我們國發基金外還要給這個新型專班的學生每人每年10萬總共最多可以補助兩年企業界每個月至少1萬生活津貼所以因為國際學生兩年獲得44萬的補助\n請問有多少人是可以獲得這些補助?\n部長現在有掌握這些數字嗎?部長你有沒有考慮我們台灣年輕人的感受\n這是一個相對剝奪感我同意一定要招收所有的國際的學生但是你也很清楚最優秀的國際學生不會來臺灣我必須大膽的這樣去講我在大學任教這麼多很多學生很認真但是最優秀的學生是在歐美所以我們要很多很多的學生過來我們要寄出非常多的獎助學金所以我今天是來就教育來討論這樣的狀況所以有多少學生是0可以領到我剛剛說的最高額\n學生的人數昨年有一個統計表再請召委來指教就是這個對象的學生國發基金所協助的主要是單程的機票的費用反過來應該是企業要做的這方面是因為他們要旅行到這個企業裡面去服務的\n主席\n主席\n跟委員報告當然這個委員剛才一開始只叫那個檢討這個為什麼會有提出後續的這幾個方案其實就是檢討前面像新南向專班這個我想委員最了解的當時有些學校實在是做得非常過頭非常非常離譜當時也聽到很多那時候楊司長都還在啊\n好﹗\n國際招生及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第1會期教育及文化委員會\n一百零四年一百一十六人一百一十二年一萬五千六\n﹏﹏\n有良心的老師把關,把他給當掉,他就轉系。那樣的轉系呢,他會失去全額的獎金,他就繼續不上課,就繼續給你打工。然後呢,他就可以混畢業留下來。很容易,像我目前臺北發生的這個寶林茶室的那位月籍的代班廚師,他就是畢業留下來的。\n因為現在的證照你們所謂的這個四證合一的你們的就業金卡連網紅隨便都可以拿到就業金卡你看移民署發具的工作許可居留簽證外僑居留證還有從入國許這個從入國的許可這四證合一你不覺得現在有人這樣的一個證發的太過於腐爛了嗎\n我沒有說外國學生留下來不可以可是你過去還有一個機制過去你還會要求你要留下來薪資起碼要三萬塊錢以上還有一些可以卡關的一個機制因為要保護所以你現在為了要讓這麼多人你要衝到這麼多的人數所以我才說嘛你的新能向意義到底在哪裡我們會非常的歡迎但是呢就我們以前來最最嚴肅的來說外籍學生如果詐騙酒駕打架\n我們沒有辦法給他退學臺灣學生可以退學我當學務長的時候退學的一些的學生經過一些程序可是外籍學生到我們這邊來我們沒有這樣子的一個部分我們到底收的這些學生納稅人的錢我只是說這是一個比例的原則我目前在你的檢討報告當中我沒有看到\n所以為什麼我要需要這些數字我需要這些錢還有我告訴你目前為止我剛所說的都是教育的reality都是現況部長面對這麼多你今天這份檢討報告我說實在的我不覺得你的南向你出來告訴我你有很多的學生但是對我來說那整個實質對臺灣產業對於我們的國際交流來說我覺得還是對我來說還是要畫上一個非常大的問號\n教育部有這樣的一個過程裡面是非常確實的去逐一的去做檢視那現在兩萬的學生已經有五屆畢業大概三千多人\n他其實是願意留下來再繼續工作這個是一個已經這個佔比例大概66%那委員剛才提到的現在為什麼我們要求學校你要負責招生你必須負有相當的義務這個對學校採取一個很嚴格的處分我要跟委員報告的是這幾所甚至委員之前你提到的那些學校退場為什麼會退場因為教育部很清楚的\n因為那些學校做得太過分了但是我剛所調列的這些狀況包括外籍學生你很難給他退學包括外籍學生他們幾乎把打工比念書來得更重要\n那幾乎對於很多東南亞的學生來說都認為臺灣就是一個打工的天堂因為而且打完工之後呢學校如果說標準又很低他又可以得到一些的獎助學金即使沒有獎助學金他繼續打工的賺錢的方法然後你要把他發放這個所謂的藉由金卡這在很多東南亞國家都已經變成是他們的利多可對我們來說的話我們花了這麼多錢給他們過來又給獎助學金給生活補助他們的對待跟我們本國學生又不一樣\n您對本國學生公平在哪裏?\n教育部本身就有一個陳情專案因為我們說從源頭我們已經做了好多的要求這個要求是你看你那個入學通知等等的部分必須要到你的學生再來實習打工分得清清楚楚\n布長,如果說分得清楚的話,因為他們不到你教育部陳請,他們到我本席辦公室來陳請,好不好?所以無論如何,把我剛剛所條列那幾個綠色框出來的,不管是數據,還是人數,還有一些的做法,我覺得這對我個人來說才是今天我們安排這次所謂的\n請教育部長潘文忠列席\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.593 --> 00:08.095\n謝謝主席我們請潘部長好有請部長\n\n00:11.427 --> 00:35.864\n張維豪部長這是你最後一次以教育部長的身份站在這邊來備詢我想我是第9任的立委我看著你這樣上來然後在第11屆的時候也要歡送你離去對我來說對你來說應該是感慨非常的多我想這7年多大概是創下我們教育部長任內就是留任最大的一個記錄我說實在的部長在這個過程當中當然有8月1月時間你因為卡管案而離開我想卡管不管是對你或是對我\n\n00:39.887 --> 00:43.008\n當時身為一個在野黨委員來說都是一個非常大的傷痕而且呢因為卡管案我們換掉了吳茂坤部長我們換掉了葉俊榮部長然後8個月之後呢你又重新再來我想那個時候因為整個教育部真的是風聲鶴唳我想沒有人敢來接教育部長所以你又再一次的被請求我為什麼講這些的歷史是要告訴你說其實你是深受高層的信任\n\n01:04.256 --> 01:15.202\n所以說呢今天大概7年半的時間當中本席對你是給予無限的祝福希望你未來能夠一切非常的平安順心也能夠繼續發揮你的專業在我們的國教特別是在國教這一塊裡面能夠造福我們更多的學子給予滿滿的一個祝福了沒有功勞以後非常大的苦勞但是話鋒一轉各位我們還是來看我們今天的書面報告\n\n01:27.268 --> 01:36.671\n因為我們今天我們如果只看教育部的規劃或數字你會覺得好像預期非常的政策很成功但是部長我要看到的是一個檢討這部分報告的檢討到底在哪裡來我告訴你你有哪些地方我很希望能夠看到的你們告訴我就說穩定成長總數大概11萬6千但是呢我要問\n\n01:50.276 --> 02:11.403\n到底我們國際招生的方式到底是如何是自行申請的多呢還是透過仲介仲介費到底收了多少申選的機制在哪裡還有呢你們每一次的這個獎學金吸引國際學生的方式跟比例到底是如何然後有沒有掌握留在臺灣工作超過一年的一個比例還有在學校裡面的成金獎懲到底是不是我們列為在臺灣工作的條件還有\n\n02:15.805 --> 02:15.985\n教育部長潘文忠列席\n\n02:35.868 --> 02:40.330\n問題是你們現在所看到的我沒有看到這些檢討報告我可以一一來跟部長討論但是本席所條列的而且我用這個特別框出來的我麻煩部長一個月之內給我一個正確的數字這是非常重要這是我認為的這才叫做檢討那我們就一一來去看一下到底哪些部分可以就教育部長的你看\n\n02:55.678 --> 02:59.140\n我們從P9月你第9月就開始說要擴大招生國際的這個學生然後呢113到145年當中的每年投入5000萬表示5年要投租了2.5億喔那我們國發基金外還要給這個新型專班的學生每人每年10萬總共最多可以補助兩年企業界每個月至少1萬生活津貼所以因為國際學生兩年獲得44萬的補助\n\n03:25.418 --> 03:26.019\n請問有多少人是可以獲得這些補助?\n\n03:43.789 --> 03:44.730\n部長現在有掌握這些數字嗎?部長你有沒有考慮我們台灣年輕人的感受\n\n04:04.128 --> 04:26.042\n這是一個相對剝奪感我同意一定要招收所有的國際的學生但是你也很清楚最優秀的國際學生不會來臺灣我必須大膽的這樣去講我在大學任教這麼多很多學生很認真但是最優秀的學生是在歐美所以我們要很多很多的學生過來我們要寄出非常多的獎助學金所以我今天是來就教育來討論這樣的狀況所以有多少學生是0可以領到我剛剛說的最高額\n\n04:31.701 --> 04:34.544\n學生的人數昨年有一個統計表再請召委來指教就是這個對象的學生國發基金所協助的主要是單程的機票的費用反過來應該是企業要做的這方面是因為他們要旅行到這個企業裡面去服務的\n\n04:55.885 --> 04:55.985\n主席\n\n05:15.942 --> 05:15.982\n主席\n\n05:27.729 --> 05:42.658\n跟委員報告當然這個委員剛才一開始只叫那個檢討這個為什麼會有提出後續的這幾個方案其實就是檢討前面像新南向專班這個我想委員最了解的當時有些學校實在是做得非常過頭非常非常離譜當時也聽到很多那時候楊司長都還在啊\n\n05:48.342 --> 05:48.362\n好﹗\n\n06:04.792 --> 06:06.473\n國際招生及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第1會期教育及文化委員會\n\n06:27.386 --> 06:29.148\n一百零四年一百一十六人一百一十二年一萬五千六\n\n07:04.972 --> 07:08.393\n有良心的老師把關,把他給當掉,他就轉系。那樣的轉系呢,他會失去全額的獎金,他就繼續不上課,就繼續給你打工。然後呢,他就可以混畢業留下來。很容易,像我目前臺北發生的這個寶林茶室的那位月籍的代班廚師,他就是畢業留下來的。\n\n07:24.699 --> 07:37.243\n因為現在的證照你們所謂的這個四證合一的你們的就業金卡連網紅隨便都可以拿到就業金卡你看移民署發具的工作許可居留簽證外僑居留證還有從入國許這個從入國的許可這四證合一你不覺得現在有人這樣的一個證發的太過於腐爛了嗎\n\n07:48.378 --> 08:10.287\n我沒有說外國學生留下來不可以可是你過去還有一個機制過去你還會要求你要留下來薪資起碼要三萬塊錢以上還有一些可以卡關的一個機制因為要保護所以你現在為了要讓這麼多人你要衝到這麼多的人數所以我才說嘛你的新能向意義到底在哪裡我們會非常的歡迎但是呢就我們以前來最最嚴肅的來說外籍學生如果詐騙酒駕打架\n\n08:14.429 --> 08:19.051\n我們沒有辦法給他退學臺灣學生可以退學我當學務長的時候退學的一些的學生經過一些程序可是外籍學生到我們這邊來我們沒有這樣子的一個部分我們到底收的這些學生納稅人的錢我只是說這是一個比例的原則我目前在你的檢討報告當中我沒有看到\n\n08:34.099 --> 08:45.245\n所以為什麼我要需要這些數字我需要這些錢還有我告訴你目前為止我剛所說的都是教育的reality都是現況部長面對這麼多你今天這份檢討報告我說實在的我不覺得你的南向你出來告訴我你有很多的學生但是對我來說那整個實質對臺灣產業對於我們的國際交流來說我覺得還是對我來說還是要畫上一個非常大的問號\n\n08:58.412 --> 09:00.535\n教育部有這樣的一個過程裡面是非常確實的去逐一的去做檢視那現在兩萬的學生已經有五屆畢業大概三千多人\n\n09:15.373 --> 09:40.675\n他其實是願意留下來再繼續工作這個是一個已經這個佔比例大概66%那委員剛才提到的現在為什麼我們要求學校你要負責招生你必須負有相當的義務這個對學校採取一個很嚴格的處分我要跟委員報告的是這幾所甚至委員之前你提到的那些學校退場為什麼會退場因為教育部很清楚的\n\n09:42.637 --> 09:45.499\n因為那些學校做得太過分了但是我剛所調列的這些狀況包括外籍學生你很難給他退學包括外籍學生他們幾乎把打工比念書來得更重要\n\n09:58.126 --> 10:19.498\n那幾乎對於很多東南亞的學生來說都認為臺灣就是一個打工的天堂因為而且打完工之後呢學校如果說標準又很低他又可以得到一些的獎助學金即使沒有獎助學金他繼續打工的賺錢的方法然後你要把他發放這個所謂的藉由金卡這在很多東南亞國家都已經變成是他們的利多可對我們來說的話我們花了這麼多錢給他們過來又給獎助學金給生活補助他們的對待跟我們本國學生又不一樣\n\n10:27.662 --> 10:27.942\n您對本國學生公平在哪裏?\n\n10:52.535 --> 10:57.919\n教育部本身就有一個陳情專案因為我們說從源頭我們已經做了好多的要求這個要求是你看你那個入學通知等等的部分必須要到你的學生再來實習打工分得清清楚楚\n\n11:15.131 --> 11:30.798\n布長,如果說分得清楚的話,因為他們不到你教育部陳請,他們到我本席辦公室來陳請,好不好?所以無論如何,把我剛剛所條列那幾個綠色框出來的,不管是數據,還是人數,還有一些的做法,我覺得這對我個人來說才是今天我們安排這次所謂的\n\n11:31.578 --> 11:31.958\n請教育部長潘文忠列席\n\n11:55.040 --> 11:55.080\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.593,"end":8.095,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請潘部長好 有請部長"},{"start":11.427,"end":35.864,"text":"張維豪部長這是你最後一次以教育部長的身份站在這邊來備詢我想我是第9任的立委我看著你這樣上來然後在第11屆的時候也要歡送你離去對我來說對你來說應該是感慨非常的多我想這7年多大概是創下我們教育部長任內就是留任最大的一個記錄我說實在的部長在這個過程當中當然有8月1月時間你因為卡管案而離開我想卡管不管是對你或是對我"},{"start":39.887,"end":43.008,"text":"當時身為一個在野黨委員來說都是一個非常大的傷痕而且呢因為卡管案我們換掉了吳茂坤部長我們換掉了葉俊榮部長然後8個月之後呢你又重新再來我想那個時候因為整個教育部真的是風聲鶴唳我想沒有人敢來接教育部長所以你又再一次的被請求我為什麼講這些的歷史是要告訴你說其實你是深受高層的信任"},{"start":64.256,"end":75.202,"text":"所以說呢今天大概7年半的時間當中本席對你是給予無限的祝福希望你未來能夠一切非常的平安順心也能夠繼續發揮你的專業在我們的國教特別是在國教這一塊裡面能夠造福我們更多的學子給予滿滿的一個祝福了沒有功勞以後非常大的苦勞但是話鋒一轉各位我們還是來看我們今天的書面報告"},{"start":87.268,"end":96.671,"text":"因為我們今天我們如果只看教育部的規劃或數字你會覺得好像預期非常的政策很成功但是部長我要看到的是一個檢討這部分報告的檢討到底在哪裡來我告訴你你有哪些地方我很希望能夠看到的你們告訴我就說穩定成長總數大概11萬6千但是呢我要問"},{"start":110.276,"end":131.403,"text":"到底我們國際招生的方式到底是如何是自行申請的多呢還是透過仲介仲介費到底收了多少申選的機制在哪裡還有呢你們每一次的這個獎學金吸引國際學生的方式跟比例到底是如何然後有沒有掌握留在臺灣工作超過一年的一個比例還有在學校裡面的成金獎懲到底是不是我們列為在臺灣工作的條件還有"},{"start":135.805,"end":135.985,"text":"教育部長潘文忠列席"},{"start":155.868,"end":160.33,"text":"問題是你們現在所看到的我沒有看到這些檢討報告我可以一一來跟部長討論但是本席所條列的而且我用這個特別框出來的我麻煩部長一個月之內給我一個正確的數字這是非常重要這是我認為的這才叫做檢討那我們就一一來去看一下到底哪些部分可以就教育部長的你看"},{"start":175.678,"end":179.14,"text":"我們從P9月你第9月就開始說要擴大招生國際的這個學生然後呢113到145年當中的每年投入5000萬表示5年要投租了2.5億喔那我們國發基金外還要給這個新型專班的學生每人每年10萬總共最多可以補助兩年企業界每個月至少1萬生活津貼所以因為國際學生兩年獲得44萬的補助"},{"start":205.418,"end":206.019,"text":"請問有多少人是可以獲得這些補助?"},{"start":223.789,"end":224.73,"text":"部長現在有掌握這些數字嗎?部長你有沒有考慮我們台灣年輕人的感受"},{"start":244.128,"end":266.042,"text":"這是一個相對剝奪感我同意一定要招收所有的國際的學生但是你也很清楚最優秀的國際學生不會來臺灣我必須大膽的這樣去講我在大學任教這麼多很多學生很認真但是最優秀的學生是在歐美所以我們要很多很多的學生過來我們要寄出非常多的獎助學金所以我今天是來就教育來討論這樣的狀況所以有多少學生是0可以領到我剛剛說的最高額"},{"start":271.701,"end":274.544,"text":"學生的人數昨年有一個統計表再請召委來指教就是這個對象的學生國發基金所協助的主要是單程的機票的費用反過來應該是企業要做的這方面是因為他們要旅行到這個企業裡面去服務的"},{"start":295.885,"end":295.985,"text":"主席"},{"start":315.942,"end":315.982,"text":"主席"},{"start":327.729,"end":342.658,"text":"跟委員報告當然這個委員剛才一開始只叫那個檢討這個為什麼會有提出後續的這幾個方案其實就是檢討前面像新南向專班這個我想委員最了解的當時有些學校實在是做得非常過頭非常非常離譜當時也聽到很多那時候楊司長都還在啊"},{"start":348.342,"end":348.362,"text":"好﹗"},{"start":364.792,"end":366.473,"text":"國際招生及文化委員會第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第1會期教育及文化委員會"},{"start":387.386,"end":389.148,"text":"一百零四年一百一十六人一百一十二年一萬五千六"},{"start":409.548,"end":424.872,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":424.972,"end":428.393,"text":"有良心的老師把關,把他給當掉,他就轉系。那樣的轉系呢,他會失去全額的獎金,他就繼續不上課,就繼續給你打工。然後呢,他就可以混畢業留下來。很容易,像我目前臺北發生的這個寶林茶室的那位月籍的代班廚師,他就是畢業留下來的。"},{"start":444.699,"end":457.243,"text":"因為現在的證照你們所謂的這個四證合一的你們的就業金卡連網紅隨便都可以拿到就業金卡你看移民署發具的工作許可居留簽證外僑居留證還有從入國許這個從入國的許可這四證合一你不覺得現在有人這樣的一個證發的太過於腐爛了嗎"},{"start":468.378,"end":490.287,"text":"我沒有說外國學生留下來不可以可是你過去還有一個機制過去你還會要求你要留下來薪資起碼要三萬塊錢以上還有一些可以卡關的一個機制因為要保護所以你現在為了要讓這麼多人你要衝到這麼多的人數所以我才說嘛你的新能向意義到底在哪裡我們會非常的歡迎但是呢就我們以前來最最嚴肅的來說外籍學生如果詐騙酒駕打架"},{"start":494.429,"end":499.051,"text":"我們沒有辦法給他退學臺灣學生可以退學我當學務長的時候退學的一些的學生經過一些程序可是外籍學生到我們這邊來我們沒有這樣子的一個部分我們到底收的這些學生納稅人的錢我只是說這是一個比例的原則我目前在你的檢討報告當中我沒有看到"},{"start":514.099,"end":525.245,"text":"所以為什麼我要需要這些數字我需要這些錢還有我告訴你目前為止我剛所說的都是教育的reality都是現況部長面對這麼多你今天這份檢討報告我說實在的我不覺得你的南向你出來告訴我你有很多的學生但是對我來說那整個實質對臺灣產業對於我們的國際交流來說我覺得還是對我來說還是要畫上一個非常大的問號"},{"start":538.412,"end":540.535,"text":"教育部有這樣的一個過程裡面是非常確實的去逐一的去做檢視那現在兩萬的學生已經有五屆畢業大概三千多人"},{"start":555.373,"end":580.675,"text":"他其實是願意留下來再繼續工作這個是一個已經這個佔比例大概66%那委員剛才提到的現在為什麼我們要求學校你要負責招生你必須負有相當的義務這個對學校採取一個很嚴格的處分我要跟委員報告的是這幾所甚至委員之前你提到的那些學校退場為什麼會退場因為教育部很清楚的"},{"start":582.637,"end":585.499,"text":"因為那些學校做得太過分了但是我剛所調列的這些狀況包括外籍學生你很難給他退學包括外籍學生他們幾乎把打工比念書來得更重要"},{"start":598.126,"end":619.498,"text":"那幾乎對於很多東南亞的學生來說都認為臺灣就是一個打工的天堂因為而且打完工之後呢學校如果說標準又很低他又可以得到一些的獎助學金即使沒有獎助學金他繼續打工的賺錢的方法然後你要把他發放這個所謂的藉由金卡這在很多東南亞國家都已經變成是他們的利多可對我們來說的話我們花了這麼多錢給他們過來又給獎助學金給生活補助他們的對待跟我們本國學生又不一樣"},{"start":627.662,"end":627.942,"text":"您對本國學生公平在哪裏?"},{"start":652.535,"end":657.919,"text":"教育部本身就有一個陳情專案因為我們說從源頭我們已經做了好多的要求這個要求是你看你那個入學通知等等的部分必須要到你的學生再來實習打工分得清清楚楚"},{"start":675.131,"end":690.798,"text":"布長,如果說分得清楚的話,因為他們不到你教育部陳請,他們到我本席辦公室來陳請,好不好?所以無論如何,把我剛剛所條列那幾個綠色框出來的,不管是數據,還是人數,還有一些的做法,我覺得這對我個人來說才是今天我們安排這次所謂的"},{"start":691.578,"end":691.958,"text":"請教育部長潘文忠列席"},{"start":715.04,"end":715.08,"text":"主席"}]}}}}