{"id":152417,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152417","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d7e25ee5d31e173463f9cc8ae4e566e4ab4a2946638eec232d94006c6d412c4da083280c9df5163c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"10:01:18 - 10:13:03","影片長度":"00:11:45","會議時間":"2024-05-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n(一)委員王育敏等21人擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)國民黨黨團擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一)委員王育敏等18人擬具「勞動基準法第五十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)國民黨黨團擬具「勞動基準法第五十四條及第八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查\n(一)委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員王育敏等18人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第九條及第二十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員馬文君等22人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員邱若華等20人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第七條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n【一、(三)及(四)案：如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【三、(四)案：如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【討論事項綜合詢答】\n【5月13日、15日及16日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-13","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-16"},"duration":705,"end_time":"2024-05-13T10:13:03+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-13T10:01:18+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":504,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（10時1分）主席好，有請許部長。"],["主席：好，請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：廖委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，這是公視在2021年拍出的劇叫作「火神的眼淚」，請問你有看過嗎？"],["許部長銘春：我沒有看這部戲，但是大概有看報導。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，我發現我們臺灣有一個很特別的狀況，我們都知道社會問題發生在哪裡、弊病在哪裡，甚至可以拿來當作藝術創作、拿來改寫成劇本，成為民眾的休閒，但是我們好像沒有辦法解決這個問題，像業務繁雜、過勞、高殉職比例、工時過長、人力不足、輪班制度無限上綱、不能當吹哨者，一切的根源在於他們不能為自己發聲，對不對？這些問題我們都知道，但請問部長，這是您最後一次的備詢，人將下臺其言也善，想要請問就你個人而言，你同意消防員為自己說話，促進消防人員的權益嗎？"],["許部長銘春：同意。"],["廖委員偉翔：你同意嘛。那你同意他們組工會嗎？"],["許部長銘春：其實發聲的方式有很多種，因為消防人員不是一般的勞工，所以他組工會可能在身分上，依我們目前的法制是有其侷限性，但是公務……"],["廖委員偉翔：沒關係，部長就你個人而言，你同意嗎？"],["許部長銘春：我覺得我們可能必須考慮到他的身分問題，看怎麼樣在目前他已經有的規定，像公協法來強化、擴大他們的團結權為目標。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，照你的說法，我只是想要簡單的答案，就是您同意還是不同意？所以您是覺得不同意，因為你覺得有其他路徑，是這個意思嗎？"],["許部長銘春：我覺得如果有其他路徑也可以達到他們訴求的目的，我們就可以來……"],["廖委員偉翔：我們請銓敘部政務次長。所以你剛剛講的，就是你要修公務人員協會法，按照今天銓敘部的報告，銓敘部去年3月才開始送版本，還在徵集各部會表示意見，2021年臺劇的劇組都比你們瞭解問題，你們到2023年已經送版本到立法院，為什麼到今年3月7號還在問各單位的意見，這不是應該去年就做完的事情嗎？為什麼到現在還說在溝通意見呢？"],["朱次長楠賢：我們其實是用開會方式處理，但是後來在10月30號送到立法院之後，因為屆期不連續退回來之後，我們覺得應該直接徵詢縣市政府的意見。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以到現在還在研議，對不對？整個任期都在研議，意見不是大家早就知道了嗎？蔡政府也不重視，你剛剛講的屆期不連續就讓它銷聲匿跡，現在你們都已經準備要換內閣了，還在研議，請問你們下一次提版本到底要什麼時候？"],["朱次長楠賢：我想施政是延續的，我們這些資料會交下去，到下一屆新的內閣會處理；基本上，還是朝向在協商內容放寬以及差異門檻降低的方面去處理。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長、次長，我現在就拜託你們一件事情，你們交到下一任的時候，可不可以把這個列為最先的優先事項，把這個問題解決，好不好？你們到時候可不可以要求這部分，你們強烈建議是下一任內閣的優先事項？你們都點頭，可以喔！"],["朱次長楠賢：可以。"],["廖委員偉翔：好。再來，勞保年金的改革拖了8年，也造成收支的差距不斷地擴大，民國106年的時候，當時年金改革委員會的召集人叫陳建仁，他說改革不及早啟動，勞保基金恐怕撐不久，民國116年之後財務缺口幾乎是懸崖，直接跳到太平洋，要救都來不及。但是這8年下來，沒有見到改革，只有自民國109年開始，透過用公務預算撥補的方式，讓現金流穩定。現在正在籌編明年度的預算，請教部長，勞動部原本計畫希望行政院明年撥補多少金額？"],["許部長銘春：因為現在正在籌編，基本上按照過往的經驗，政府的撥補應該都會參酌前一年的預算金額來設定，所以我想明年的撥補金額應該也不會少啦。"],["廖委員偉翔：不會少，就是會很多這樣。明年度至少要撥多少金額，才不會去動用或是變賣國內外的股票或債券跟不動產？"],["許部長銘春：因為撥補的金額到底要撥補多少，還是要看整個財政的狀況，像去年跟今年整個勞保基金的投資效益都不錯，像去年我們的勞保基金賺了1,100億，投資報酬率14.44%。"],["廖委員偉翔：這個是帳面的金額，你有去把它變賣、變現出來嗎？"],["許部長銘春：這個當然就是……"],["廖委員偉翔：好，部長……"],["許部長銘春：我們就是要支付，我們就是會……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，現在因為新舊政府的交接……"],["許部長銘春：我們的差額會從勞保基金來彌補。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，沒關係。我剛剛的問題你沒有回答我，因為現在新舊政府的交接，所以公務預算撥補的金額恐怕會有調整，但是我想要問你，你會建議新的部長或未來行政院長在編列這個撥補勞保基金預算至少要多少金額嗎？"],["許部長銘春：我想第一個持續撥補這個立場應該不會改變，在金額的部分，過去我們也認為希望能夠在財務許可的情況下，越多越好。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，你剛剛有提到參考過去的嘛，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，所以從這個表我們可以看到今年度共撥了1,300億，剛好可以彌平收支差額，但是預估明年度的收支差額至少應該差超過1,300。"],["許部長銘春：去年的收支差異是446啦！"],["廖委員偉翔：112年嘛，對！我是說113年，今年度啊！所以明年度？"],["許部長銘春：這個是今年的，因為這是精算報告預估的啦！其實實際的差異數有時候跟預估數會不一樣，但是撥補的立場……"],["廖委員偉翔：但是我們從今年來看，就是收支差今年要撥1,300，明年保守估計應該也是1,200嘛，對不對？所以行政院如果明年沒有撥補1,000億，是不是開始要賣勞股？後年度的收支差會不會到1,800億？"],["許部長銘春：這個是精算報告的數字推估的，今年我們還會重新做精算報告。"],["廖委員偉翔：精算報告不就是要給我們來參考編預算用的嗎？"],["許部長銘春：對，這是參考，但我要跟委員說這是參考數據，不是實際會發生的數據啦！"],["廖委員偉翔：可是你都講精算報告，我們不是就要先看到這個數字來因應嗎？"],["許部長銘春：對！我的意思是政府的撥補會參考，但也要衡酌其財務狀況來撥補。"],["廖委員偉翔：我現在要講，你看這裡的表，基本上你的收支差就是不斷地擴大，如此繼續擴大我們的收支差額，會不會在賴清德第一屆總統任內，我們勞保基金3兆的資產恐怕不夠支付所有的法定支出？新任的部長會不會是破產部長？因為部長剛剛有講，你說股市上漲的時候，勞動部就會跳出來宣稱勞動基金賺了好多錢，好棒棒，但這都是帳面價值啊！沒有出清前都只是數字啊！對於已經請領退休金額的人來講，現金流才是重點吧。"],["許部長銘春：但是我們的給付並沒有發生任何問題啊！"],["廖委員偉翔：是！現在沒有啦！"],["許部長銘春：基金餘額到3月的時候九千九百多億。"],["廖委員偉翔：你現在沒有當然就是因為你說公務預算一直來撥補嘛！"],["許部長銘春：不是，撥補當然是一個財源挹注，去做投資運用也是增加財源的一個方式，我要跟委員說，我們的……"],["廖委員偉翔：好，部長，那我等一下給你看下面的數據……"],["許部長銘春：基金就是來填補每年收支逆差的缺口啦！"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我們從數據上來看，最近6個月光是年金給付一項，人數從175.9萬增長到182.4萬人，給付金額也從每個月的328.5億增加到340億，這是政府公布的短期數據，是看不太出來有什麼很大的差異性，但是如果把數據的時間拉長來看，從108年的2月，給付人數是121.82萬，給付金額是207億，但是到今年2月，已經到了182.4萬人，給付金額也從每個月207億增長到340億，短短5年的時間，給付人數增長了49.75%，給付金額也增長了63.8%，部長，你知道這代表的意思是什麼嗎？"],["許部長銘春：這本來就是在預估的範圍，因為已經到一個成熟期，累增的人數本來就會增加，所以才會說勞保的問題，我們可能要審慎，因為整個人口結構的改變，所以這個一定要……"],["廖委員偉翔：其實我想這應該也不只我們在關心，已經講勞保改革很久了，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對啊……"],["廖委員偉翔：是不是蔡英文找……"],["許部長銘春：我要跟委員說，這些人數都是在原來的預估範圍裡面。"],["廖委員偉翔：是，但是蔡英文找柯文哲到他們總統府談的時候也講了嘛！他第一件事情跟他講的就是勞保改革。部長，現在戰後嬰兒潮的退休潮已經開始，過去5年的無論是增加給付人數或是增加給付金額都是呈現45度的上揚，但是退休者是依據法令申請退休和申請給付，所以政策上，我想你們能夠做的是不是想辦法延退？例如在數據上顯示，現在請領的年齡級距高峰是在60到64歲，再來才是65到69歲還有55到59歲，而媒體調查，支持延後退休的年齡也有很高的支持率。請教部長，除了法定的逐步調高退休年齡外，我們還有哪些鼓勵延退的機制？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們現在延退有展延年金，就是5年嘛！現在是5年，有一個上限，至於延後退休年齡這個建議，當然大家可以來討論，然後看看怎麼樣處理，主要是要有共識啦！"],["廖委員偉翔：好，我覺得這件事情，勞保的年金改革應該刻不容緩，你們都認同對不對？好，那我希望部長你在交接下一任的時候，是不是這件事情也請他們誠實面對，不要再一拖再拖，拖了8年過去了，好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。等一下涂權吉委員質詢結束後，我們休息5分鐘，現在請蘇清泉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":270,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-16","speakers":["王育敏","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","陳昭姿","林月琴","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","鄭天財Sra 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0.994}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 701.417, \"end\": 701.437, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,899 --> 00:00:25,607\n主席好,有請我們許部長。好,許部長請。六人好。等一下喔,我先開一下這個PowerPoint。好。\n\n2\n00:00:29,855 --> 00:00:31,576\n國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一�\n\n3\n00:01:00,202 --> 00:01:25,544\n我發現我們台灣有一個很特別的狀況我們都知道這個社會問題發生這個的問題在哪裡然後弊病在哪裡甚至可以拿來當作藝術創作拿來改寫成劇本成為民眾的休閒但是我們好像就是沒有辦法解決這個問題業務繁雜過勞高殉職比例工時過長人力不足輪班制度無限上綱不能當吹哨者\n\n4\n00:01:26,975 --> 00:01:48,985\n全體的根源在於他們不能為自己發聲對不對這些問題我們都知道但請問部長這是您最後一次的這一周的質詢人將下台其言也善想要請問就你個人而言你同意消防員為自己說話促進消防人員的權益嗎同意你同意嗎那你同意他們組工會嗎\n\n5\n00:01:51,506 --> 00:02:18,384\n議員,其實發生的方式有很多種,那因為消防人員他不是一般的勞工,所以他組工會可能在身份上以我們目前的法制是有他的局限性,但是就是說...沒關係,部長,就你個人的意見,你同意嗎?我覺得可能我們必須考慮到他整個身份問題,然後看怎麼樣在目前的他已經有的,像工協法來強化\n\n6\n00:02:20,505 --> 00:02:26,649\n),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案\n\n7\n00:02:41,471 --> 00:03:08,450\n所以你剛剛講的就是說你要改這個修工務人員協會法嘛那按照今天全序部的報告全序部去年3月才開始送版本還在徵集各部會的表示意見那2021年這個台劇的劇組都比你們了解問題你們到2023年已經送版本到立法院為什麼到今年的3月7號還在問各單位的意見這不是應該去年就做完的事情嗎為什麼到現在還說在溝通意見呢\n\n8\n00:03:09,693 --> 00:03:32,785\n我們其實是用開會方式處理啊但是後來這個10月30號送到立法院之後因為屆期不連續推來之後呢我們覺得應該直接徵詢縣市政府的意見好所以到現在還在研議嘛對不對相當的研議整個任期都在研議嘛意見不是大家都早就知道嗎那然後蔡政府也不重視然後你剛剛講了屆期不連續就讓他銷聲匿跡現在你們都已經準備要換\n\n9\n00:03:36,607 --> 00:03:40,067\n換內閣了還在演繹那請問你們下一次提版本到底要什麼時候?\n\n10\n00:03:41,158 --> 00:04:09,767\n我想這個施政是延續的啦我們這些資料會交下去到下一屆新的內閣會處理基本上還是朝向在協商內容放寬以及參議門檻降低的方面去處理部長、次長那我現在就拜託你們一件事情你們交到下一任的時候可不可以把這個列為最先的優先事項把這個問題解決好不好你們可不可以到時候要求說這個東西你們強烈建議是下一任的內閣的優先事項\n\n11\n00:04:11,277 --> 00:04:12,878\n國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑\n\n12\n00:04:32,045 --> 00:05:00,549\n他說改革不及早啟動勞保基金恐怕撐不久民國116年之後財務缺口幾乎是懸崖直接跳到太平洋要救都來不及但是這8年下來沒有見到改革只有自民國109年開始透過用公務預算撥補的方式讓現金流穩定部長現在正在籌編明年度的預算請教部長勞動部原本計畫希望行政院明年撥補多少金額\n\n13\n00:05:01,577 --> 00:05:27,087\n拜託委員因為現在在籌編那我們基本上按照過往的經驗政府的撥補應該都會參酌前一年的預算金額來去設定所以應該我想明年的撥補金額應該也不會少不會少就是會很多這樣那明年度至少要撥多少金額才會不會去動用或是變賣國內外的股票或債券跟不動產\n\n14\n00:05:28,154 --> 00:05:52,254\n拜託委員因為那個撥補的金額到底要撥補多少還是要看整個財政的狀況那這幾這像去年跟今年整個的勞保基金的投資效益都不錯像去年的話我們的勞保基金賺了1100億他投資報酬率14.44%這個是帳面的金額你有去你有去做你有去把變賣出來變現出來嗎這個當然就是\n\n15\n00:05:55,736 --> 00:06:01,057\n公務預算撥補的金額恐怕會有調整但是我想要問你你會建議新的部長或未來行政院長在編列這個撥補勞保基金預算至少要多少金額嗎\n\n16\n00:06:21,228 --> 00:06:25,330\n議員王育敏等19人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n17\n00:06:44,339 --> 00:07:05,315\nμη憑收支差額。但是預估明年度的收支差額應該也至少超過一千三。去年的收支差異是四百四十幾,四四六啦。一一二年嘛。對,我說一一三年。今年度啊。因為這個都是精算報告。這是精算報告預估的啦,包委員。其實實際的差異數有時候\n\n18\n00:07:07,056 --> 00:07:25,162\n),委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員\n\n19\n00:07:33,158 --> 00:07:57,089\n報告委員這個是精算報告的數字推估的今年我們還重新做精算報告精算報告不就是要給我們來參考別人的預算用的嗎但是我要跟委員說這是參考數據不是實際會發生的數據可是你都會講精算報告我們不是就要先看到這個數字來做營運嗎我的意思是說政府的撥補他會參考但是也是要橫著他的財務狀況\n\n20\n00:07:58,490 --> 00:08:16,245\n好我先要講你看這裡的表基本上你的收支差就是不斷的在擴大嘛如此繼續擴大我們的收支差額恐怕會不會賴清德第一屆總統任內我們勞保基金三兆的資產恐怕會不夠支付所有的法定支出新任的部長會不會是破產部長\n\n21\n00:08:18,598 --> 00:08:39,412\n因爲你剛剛有講部長你說股市上漲的時候勞動部就會跳出來宣稱說勞動基金賺了好多錢好棒棒但是這都是帳面價值沒有出清錢都只是數字但對於已經請領退休金額的人來講這個現金流才是重點但是我們的給付並沒有發生任何問題是現在沒有基金餘額到9900多億到3月的時候9900多億你現在沒有當然就是因爲你說公約預算一直來撥補不是不是\n\n22\n00:08:48,998 --> 00:09:09,691\n多補當然是一個財源挹注,那去做投資運用那也是增加財源的一個方式。我要再跟委員說我們的這個……好,部長,那我等一下給你看下面的數據。基金就是來填補每年的收支逆差的差距。我們從數據上來看最近六個月,光是這個年金給付一項,人數從175.9萬增長到182.4萬人。\n\n23\n00:09:15,254 --> 00:09:27,163\n擬副金額也從每個月的328.5億增加到340億。這是政府公佈的短期數據是看不太出來有什麼很大的差異性的。但是如果把這數據的時間拉長來看,從108年的2月擬副人數是121.82萬,擬副金額是207億。但是到今年2月已經到了182.4萬人,擬副金額也從207億每個月增長到340億。\n\n24\n00:09:43,474 --> 00:10:01,181\n短短五年的時間幾副人數增長了49.75%幾副金額也增長了63.8%部長你知道這代表的意思是什麼嗎這本來就是在預估的範圍因為已經到一個成熟期其實累增的人數本來就會增加所以\n\n25\n00:10:01,841 --> 00:10:22,024\n之所以才會說這個勞保的問題我們可能要因為這整個人口結構的概念其實我想這應該也不只我們在關心啦已經講了勞保改革很久了嘛對不對是不是蔡英文找因為這些人數都是在原來的預估範圍裡面是但是蔡英文找柯文哲到他們總統府談的時候也講了嘛他第一件事情跟他講的就是勞保改革\n\n26\n00:10:23,506 --> 00:10:42,461\n議員,現在戰後嬰兒潮的退休潮已經開始了。過去五年的無論是增加給付人數或是增加給付金額都是呈現45度的上揚。但是退休者是依據法令的申請退休和申請給付。所以政策上我想你們能夠做的是不是想辦法延退\n\n27\n00:10:44,855 --> 00:10:49,096\n而媒體調查支持延後退休的年齡也有很高的支持率請教部長除了法定的逐步調高退休年齡外我們還有哪些鼓勵延退的機制\n\n28\n00:11:07,588 --> 00:11:23,354\n國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全\n\n29\n00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:41,437\n好,那我希望說部長你在交接下一任的時候是不是這件事情也請他們誠實面對不要再一拖再拖拖了八年過去的好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13899\t25607\t主席好,有請我們許部長。好,許部長請。六人好。等一下喔,我先開一下這個PowerPoint。好。\n29855\t31576\t國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一�\n60202\t85544\t我發現我們台灣有一個很特別的狀況我們都知道這個社會問題發生這個的問題在哪裡然後弊病在哪裡甚至可以拿來當作藝術創作拿來改寫成劇本成為民眾的休閒但是我們好像就是沒有辦法解決這個問題業務繁雜過勞高殉職比例工時過長人力不足輪班制度無限上綱不能當吹哨者\n86975\t108985\t全體的根源在於他們不能為自己發聲對不對這些問題我們都知道但請問部長這是您最後一次的這一周的質詢人將下台其言也善想要請問就你個人而言你同意消防員為自己說話促進消防人員的權益嗎同意你同意嗎那你同意他們組工會嗎\n111506\t138384\t議員,其實發生的方式有很多種,那因為消防人員他不是一般的勞工,所以他組工會可能在身份上以我們目前的法制是有他的局限性,但是就是說...沒關係,部長,就你個人的意見,你同意嗎?我覺得可能我們必須考慮到他整個身份問題,然後看怎麼樣在目前的他已經有的,像工協法來強化\n140505\t146649\t),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案 〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 〉案\n161471\t188450\t所以你剛剛講的就是說你要改這個修工務人員協會法嘛那按照今天全序部的報告全序部去年3月才開始送版本還在徵集各部會的表示意見那2021年這個台劇的劇組都比你們了解問題你們到2023年已經送版本到立法院為什麼到今年的3月7號還在問各單位的意見這不是應該去年就做完的事情嗎為什麼到現在還說在溝通意見呢\n189693\t212785\t我們其實是用開會方式處理啊但是後來這個10月30號送到立法院之後因為屆期不連續推來之後呢我們覺得應該直接徵詢縣市政府的意見好所以到現在還在研議嘛對不對相當的研議整個任期都在研議嘛意見不是大家都早就知道嗎那然後蔡政府也不重視然後你剛剛講了屆期不連續就讓他銷聲匿跡現在你們都已經準備要換\n216607\t220067\t換內閣了還在演繹那請問你們下一次提版本到底要什麼時候?\n221158\t249767\t我想這個施政是延續的啦我們這些資料會交下去到下一屆新的內閣會處理基本上還是朝向在協商內容放寬以及參議門檻降低的方面去處理部長、次長那我現在就拜託你們一件事情你們交到下一任的時候可不可以把這個列為最先的優先事項把這個問題解決好不好你們可不可以到時候要求說這個東西你們強烈建議是下一任的內閣的優先事項\n251277\t252878\t國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑\n272045\t300549\t他說改革不及早啟動勞保基金恐怕撐不久民國116年之後財務缺口幾乎是懸崖直接跳到太平洋要救都來不及但是這8年下來沒有見到改革只有自民國109年開始透過用公務預算撥補的方式讓現金流穩定部長現在正在籌編明年度的預算請教部長勞動部原本計畫希望行政院明年撥補多少金額\n301577\t327087\t拜託委員因為現在在籌編那我們基本上按照過往的經驗政府的撥補應該都會參酌前一年的預算金額來去設定所以應該我想明年的撥補金額應該也不會少不會少就是會很多這樣那明年度至少要撥多少金額才會不會去動用或是變賣國內外的股票或債券跟不動產\n328154\t352254\t拜託委員因為那個撥補的金額到底要撥補多少還是要看整個財政的狀況那這幾這像去年跟今年整個的勞保基金的投資效益都不錯像去年的話我們的勞保基金賺了1100億他投資報酬率14.44%這個是帳面的金額你有去你有去做你有去把變賣出來變現出來嗎這個當然就是\n355736\t361057\t公務預算撥補的金額恐怕會有調整但是我想要問你你會建議新的部長或未來行政院長在編列這個撥補勞保基金預算至少要多少金額嗎\n381228\t385330\t議員王育敏等19人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n404339\t425315\tμη憑收支差額。但是預估明年度的收支差額應該也至少超過一千三。去年的收支差異是四百四十幾,四四六啦。一一二年嘛。對,我說一一三年。今年度啊。因為這個都是精算報告。這是精算報告預估的啦,包委員。其實實際的差異數有時候\n427056\t445162\t),委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員\n453158\t477089\t報告委員這個是精算報告的數字推估的今年我們還重新做精算報告精算報告不就是要給我們來參考別人的預算用的嗎但是我要跟委員說這是參考數據不是實際會發生的數據可是你都會講精算報告我們不是就要先看到這個數字來做營運嗎我的意思是說政府的撥補他會參考但是也是要橫著他的財務狀況\n478490\t496245\t好我先要講你看這裡的表基本上你的收支差就是不斷的在擴大嘛如此繼續擴大我們的收支差額恐怕會不會賴清德第一屆總統任內我們勞保基金三兆的資產恐怕會不夠支付所有的法定支出新任的部長會不會是破產部長\n498598\t519412\t因爲你剛剛有講部長你說股市上漲的時候勞動部就會跳出來宣稱說勞動基金賺了好多錢好棒棒但是這都是帳面價值沒有出清錢都只是數字但對於已經請領退休金額的人來講這個現金流才是重點但是我們的給付並沒有發生任何問題是現在沒有基金餘額到9900多億到3月的時候9900多億你現在沒有當然就是因爲你說公約預算一直來撥補不是不是\n528998\t549691\t多補當然是一個財源挹注,那去做投資運用那也是增加財源的一個方式。我要再跟委員說我們的這個……好,部長,那我等一下給你看下面的數據。基金就是來填補每年的收支逆差的差距。我們從數據上來看最近六個月,光是這個年金給付一項,人數從175.9萬增長到182.4萬人。\n555254\t567163\t擬副金額也從每個月的328.5億增加到340億。這是政府公佈的短期數據是看不太出來有什麼很大的差異性的。但是如果把這數據的時間拉長來看,從108年的2月擬副人數是121.82萬,擬副金額是207億。但是到今年2月已經到了182.4萬人,擬副金額也從207億每個月增長到340億。\n583474\t601181\t短短五年的時間幾副人數增長了49.75%幾副金額也增長了63.8%部長你知道這代表的意思是什麼嗎這本來就是在預估的範圍因為已經到一個成熟期其實累增的人數本來就會增加所以\n601841\t622024\t之所以才會說這個勞保的問題我們可能要因為這整個人口結構的概念其實我想這應該也不只我們在關心啦已經講了勞保改革很久了嘛對不對是不是蔡英文找因為這些人數都是在原來的預估範圍裡面是但是蔡英文找柯文哲到他們總統府談的時候也講了嘛他第一件事情跟他講的就是勞保改革\n623506\t642461\t議員,現在戰後嬰兒潮的退休潮已經開始了。過去五年的無論是增加給付人數或是增加給付金額都是呈現45度的上揚。但是退休者是依據法令的申請退休和申請給付。所以政策上我想你們能夠做的是不是想辦法延退\n644855\t649096\t而媒體調查支持延後退休的年齡也有很高的支持率請教部長除了法定的逐步調高退休年齡外我們還有哪些鼓勵延退的機制\n667588\t683354\t國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全\n692790\t701437\t好,那我希望說部長你在交接下一任的時候是不是這件事情也請他們誠實面對不要再一拖再拖拖了八年過去的好謝謝好謝謝\n","txt":"主席好,有請我們許部長。好,許部長請。六人好。等一下喔,我先開一下這個PowerPoint。好。\n國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一�\n我發現我們台灣有一個很特別的狀況我們都知道這個社會問題發生這個的問題在哪裡然後弊病在哪裡甚至可以拿來當作藝術創作拿來改寫成劇本成為民眾的休閒但是我們好像就是沒有辦法解決這個問題業務繁雜過勞高殉職比例工時過長人力不足輪班制度無限上綱不能當吹哨者\n全體的根源在於他們不能為自己發聲對不對這些問題我們都知道但請問部長這是您最後一次的這一周的質詢人將下台其言也善想要請問就你個人而言你同意消防員為自己說話促進消防人員的權益嗎同意你同意嗎那你同意他們組工會嗎\n議員,其實發生的方式有很多種,那因為消防人員他不是一般的勞工,所以他組工會可能在身份上以我們目前的法制是有他的局限性,但是就是說...沒關係,部長,就你個人的意見,你同意嗎?我覺得可能我們必須考慮到他整個身份問題,然後看怎麼樣在目前的他已經有的,像工協法來強化\n),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案 〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 〉案\n所以你剛剛講的就是說你要改這個修工務人員協會法嘛那按照今天全序部的報告全序部去年3月才開始送版本還在徵集各部會的表示意見那2021年這個台劇的劇組都比你們了解問題你們到2023年已經送版本到立法院為什麼到今年的3月7號還在問各單位的意見這不是應該去年就做完的事情嗎為什麼到現在還說在溝通意見呢\n我們其實是用開會方式處理啊但是後來這個10月30號送到立法院之後因為屆期不連續推來之後呢我們覺得應該直接徵詢縣市政府的意見好所以到現在還在研議嘛對不對相當的研議整個任期都在研議嘛意見不是大家都早就知道嗎那然後蔡政府也不重視然後你剛剛講了屆期不連續就讓他銷聲匿跡現在你們都已經準備要換\n換內閣了還在演繹那請問你們下一次提版本到底要什麼時候?\n我想這個施政是延續的啦我們這些資料會交下去到下一屆新的內閣會處理基本上還是朝向在協商內容放寬以及參議門檻降低的方面去處理部長、次長那我現在就拜託你們一件事情你們交到下一任的時候可不可以把這個列為最先的優先事項把這個問題解決好不好你們可不可以到時候要求說這個東西你們強烈建議是下一任的內閣的優先事項\n國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑\n他說改革不及早啟動勞保基金恐怕撐不久民國116年之後財務缺口幾乎是懸崖直接跳到太平洋要救都來不及但是這8年下來沒有見到改革只有自民國109年開始透過用公務預算撥補的方式讓現金流穩定部長現在正在籌編明年度的預算請教部長勞動部原本計畫希望行政院明年撥補多少金額\n拜託委員因為現在在籌編那我們基本上按照過往的經驗政府的撥補應該都會參酌前一年的預算金額來去設定所以應該我想明年的撥補金額應該也不會少不會少就是會很多這樣那明年度至少要撥多少金額才會不會去動用或是變賣國內外的股票或債券跟不動產\n拜託委員因為那個撥補的金額到底要撥補多少還是要看整個財政的狀況那這幾這像去年跟今年整個的勞保基金的投資效益都不錯像去年的話我們的勞保基金賺了1100億他投資報酬率14.44%這個是帳面的金額你有去你有去做你有去把變賣出來變現出來嗎這個當然就是\n公務預算撥補的金額恐怕會有調整但是我想要問你你會建議新的部長或未來行政院長在編列這個撥補勞保基金預算至少要多少金額嗎\n議員王育敏等19人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\nμη憑收支差額。但是預估明年度的收支差額應該也至少超過一千三。去年的收支差異是四百四十幾,四四六啦。一一二年嘛。對,我說一一三年。今年度啊。因為這個都是精算報告。這是精算報告預估的啦,包委員。其實實際的差異數有時候\n),委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員\n報告委員這個是精算報告的數字推估的今年我們還重新做精算報告精算報告不就是要給我們來參考別人的預算用的嗎但是我要跟委員說這是參考數據不是實際會發生的數據可是你都會講精算報告我們不是就要先看到這個數字來做營運嗎我的意思是說政府的撥補他會參考但是也是要橫著他的財務狀況\n好我先要講你看這裡的表基本上你的收支差就是不斷的在擴大嘛如此繼續擴大我們的收支差額恐怕會不會賴清德第一屆總統任內我們勞保基金三兆的資產恐怕會不夠支付所有的法定支出新任的部長會不會是破產部長\n因爲你剛剛有講部長你說股市上漲的時候勞動部就會跳出來宣稱說勞動基金賺了好多錢好棒棒但是這都是帳面價值沒有出清錢都只是數字但對於已經請領退休金額的人來講這個現金流才是重點但是我們的給付並沒有發生任何問題是現在沒有基金餘額到9900多億到3月的時候9900多億你現在沒有當然就是因爲你說公約預算一直來撥補不是不是\n多補當然是一個財源挹注,那去做投資運用那也是增加財源的一個方式。我要再跟委員說我們的這個……好,部長,那我等一下給你看下面的數據。基金就是來填補每年的收支逆差的差距。我們從數據上來看最近六個月,光是這個年金給付一項,人數從175.9萬增長到182.4萬人。\n擬副金額也從每個月的328.5億增加到340億。這是政府公佈的短期數據是看不太出來有什麼很大的差異性的。但是如果把這數據的時間拉長來看,從108年的2月擬副人數是121.82萬,擬副金額是207億。但是到今年2月已經到了182.4萬人,擬副金額也從207億每個月增長到340億。\n短短五年的時間幾副人數增長了49.75%幾副金額也增長了63.8%部長你知道這代表的意思是什麼嗎這本來就是在預估的範圍因為已經到一個成熟期其實累增的人數本來就會增加所以\n之所以才會說這個勞保的問題我們可能要因為這整個人口結構的概念其實我想這應該也不只我們在關心啦已經講了勞保改革很久了嘛對不對是不是蔡英文找因為這些人數都是在原來的預估範圍裡面是但是蔡英文找柯文哲到他們總統府談的時候也講了嘛他第一件事情跟他講的就是勞保改革\n議員,現在戰後嬰兒潮的退休潮已經開始了。過去五年的無論是增加給付人數或是增加給付金額都是呈現45度的上揚。但是退休者是依據法令的申請退休和申請給付。所以政策上我想你們能夠做的是不是想辦法延退\n而媒體調查支持延後退休的年齡也有很高的支持率請教部長除了法定的逐步調高退休年齡外我們還有哪些鼓勵延退的機制\n國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全\n好,那我希望說部長你在交接下一任的時候是不是這件事情也請他們誠實面對不要再一拖再拖拖了八年過去的好謝謝好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.899 --> 00:25.607\n主席好,有請我們許部長。好,許部長請。六人好。等一下喔,我先開一下這個PowerPoint。好。\n\n00:29.855 --> 00:31.576\n國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一�\n\n01:00.202 --> 01:25.544\n我發現我們台灣有一個很特別的狀況我們都知道這個社會問題發生這個的問題在哪裡然後弊病在哪裡甚至可以拿來當作藝術創作拿來改寫成劇本成為民眾的休閒但是我們好像就是沒有辦法解決這個問題業務繁雜過勞高殉職比例工時過長人力不足輪班制度無限上綱不能當吹哨者\n\n01:26.975 --> 01:48.985\n全體的根源在於他們不能為自己發聲對不對這些問題我們都知道但請問部長這是您最後一次的這一周的質詢人將下台其言也善想要請問就你個人而言你同意消防員為自己說話促進消防人員的權益嗎同意你同意嗎那你同意他們組工會嗎\n\n01:51.506 --> 02:18.384\n議員,其實發生的方式有很多種,那因為消防人員他不是一般的勞工,所以他組工會可能在身份上以我們目前的法制是有他的局限性,但是就是說...沒關係,部長,就你個人的意見,你同意嗎?我覺得可能我們必須考慮到他整個身份問題,然後看怎麼樣在目前的他已經有的,像工協法來強化\n\n02:20.505 --> 02:26.649\n),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案\n\n02:41.471 --> 03:08.450\n所以你剛剛講的就是說你要改這個修工務人員協會法嘛那按照今天全序部的報告全序部去年3月才開始送版本還在徵集各部會的表示意見那2021年這個台劇的劇組都比你們了解問題你們到2023年已經送版本到立法院為什麼到今年的3月7號還在問各單位的意見這不是應該去年就做完的事情嗎為什麼到現在還說在溝通意見呢\n\n03:09.693 --> 03:32.785\n我們其實是用開會方式處理啊但是後來這個10月30號送到立法院之後因為屆期不連續推來之後呢我們覺得應該直接徵詢縣市政府的意見好所以到現在還在研議嘛對不對相當的研議整個任期都在研議嘛意見不是大家都早就知道嗎那然後蔡政府也不重視然後你剛剛講了屆期不連續就讓他銷聲匿跡現在你們都已經準備要換\n\n03:36.607 --> 03:40.067\n換內閣了還在演繹那請問你們下一次提版本到底要什麼時候?\n\n03:41.158 --> 04:09.767\n我想這個施政是延續的啦我們這些資料會交下去到下一屆新的內閣會處理基本上還是朝向在協商內容放寬以及參議門檻降低的方面去處理部長、次長那我現在就拜託你們一件事情你們交到下一任的時候可不可以把這個列為最先的優先事項把這個問題解決好不好你們可不可以到時候要求說這個東西你們強烈建議是下一任的內閣的優先事項\n\n04:11.277 --> 04:12.878\n國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑\n\n04:32.045 --> 05:00.549\n他說改革不及早啟動勞保基金恐怕撐不久民國116年之後財務缺口幾乎是懸崖直接跳到太平洋要救都來不及但是這8年下來沒有見到改革只有自民國109年開始透過用公務預算撥補的方式讓現金流穩定部長現在正在籌編明年度的預算請教部長勞動部原本計畫希望行政院明年撥補多少金額\n\n05:01.577 --> 05:27.087\n拜託委員因為現在在籌編那我們基本上按照過往的經驗政府的撥補應該都會參酌前一年的預算金額來去設定所以應該我想明年的撥補金額應該也不會少不會少就是會很多這樣那明年度至少要撥多少金額才會不會去動用或是變賣國內外的股票或債券跟不動產\n\n05:28.154 --> 05:52.254\n拜託委員因為那個撥補的金額到底要撥補多少還是要看整個財政的狀況那這幾這像去年跟今年整個的勞保基金的投資效益都不錯像去年的話我們的勞保基金賺了1100億他投資報酬率14.44%這個是帳面的金額你有去你有去做你有去把變賣出來變現出來嗎這個當然就是\n\n05:55.736 --> 06:01.057\n公務預算撥補的金額恐怕會有調整但是我想要問你你會建議新的部長或未來行政院長在編列這個撥補勞保基金預算至少要多少金額嗎\n\n06:21.228 --> 06:25.330\n議員王育敏等19人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n06:44.339 --> 07:05.315\nμη憑收支差額。但是預估明年度的收支差額應該也至少超過一千三。去年的收支差異是四百四十幾,四四六啦。一一二年嘛。對,我說一一三年。今年度啊。因為這個都是精算報告。這是精算報告預估的啦,包委員。其實實際的差異數有時候\n\n07:07.056 --> 07:25.162\n),委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員\n\n07:33.158 --> 07:57.089\n報告委員這個是精算報告的數字推估的今年我們還重新做精算報告精算報告不就是要給我們來參考別人的預算用的嗎但是我要跟委員說這是參考數據不是實際會發生的數據可是你都會講精算報告我們不是就要先看到這個數字來做營運嗎我的意思是說政府的撥補他會參考但是也是要橫著他的財務狀況\n\n07:58.490 --> 08:16.245\n好我先要講你看這裡的表基本上你的收支差就是不斷的在擴大嘛如此繼續擴大我們的收支差額恐怕會不會賴清德第一屆總統任內我們勞保基金三兆的資產恐怕會不夠支付所有的法定支出新任的部長會不會是破產部長\n\n08:18.598 --> 08:39.412\n因爲你剛剛有講部長你說股市上漲的時候勞動部就會跳出來宣稱說勞動基金賺了好多錢好棒棒但是這都是帳面價值沒有出清錢都只是數字但對於已經請領退休金額的人來講這個現金流才是重點但是我們的給付並沒有發生任何問題是現在沒有基金餘額到9900多億到3月的時候9900多億你現在沒有當然就是因爲你說公約預算一直來撥補不是不是\n\n08:48.998 --> 09:09.691\n多補當然是一個財源挹注,那去做投資運用那也是增加財源的一個方式。我要再跟委員說我們的這個……好,部長,那我等一下給你看下面的數據。基金就是來填補每年的收支逆差的差距。我們從數據上來看最近六個月,光是這個年金給付一項,人數從175.9萬增長到182.4萬人。\n\n09:15.254 --> 09:27.163\n擬副金額也從每個月的328.5億增加到340億。這是政府公佈的短期數據是看不太出來有什麼很大的差異性的。但是如果把這數據的時間拉長來看,從108年的2月擬副人數是121.82萬,擬副金額是207億。但是到今年2月已經到了182.4萬人,擬副金額也從207億每個月增長到340億。\n\n09:43.474 --> 10:01.181\n短短五年的時間幾副人數增長了49.75%幾副金額也增長了63.8%部長你知道這代表的意思是什麼嗎這本來就是在預估的範圍因為已經到一個成熟期其實累增的人數本來就會增加所以\n\n10:01.841 --> 10:22.024\n之所以才會說這個勞保的問題我們可能要因為這整個人口結構的概念其實我想這應該也不只我們在關心啦已經講了勞保改革很久了嘛對不對是不是蔡英文找因為這些人數都是在原來的預估範圍裡面是但是蔡英文找柯文哲到他們總統府談的時候也講了嘛他第一件事情跟他講的就是勞保改革\n\n10:23.506 --> 10:42.461\n議員,現在戰後嬰兒潮的退休潮已經開始了。過去五年的無論是增加給付人數或是增加給付金額都是呈現45度的上揚。但是退休者是依據法令的申請退休和申請給付。所以政策上我想你們能夠做的是不是想辦法延退\n\n10:44.855 --> 10:49.096\n而媒體調查支持延後退休的年齡也有很高的支持率請教部長除了法定的逐步調高退休年齡外我們還有哪些鼓勵延退的機制\n\n11:07.588 --> 11:23.354\n國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全\n\n11:32.790 --> 11:41.437\n好,那我希望說部長你在交接下一任的時候是不是這件事情也請他們誠實面對不要再一拖再拖拖了八年過去的好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.899,"end":25.607,"text":"主席好,有請我們許部長。好,許部長請。六人好。等一下喔,我先開一下這個PowerPoint。好。"},{"start":29.855,"end":31.576,"text":"國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一�"},{"start":60.202,"end":85.544,"text":"我發現我們台灣有一個很特別的狀況我們都知道這個社會問題發生這個的問題在哪裡然後弊病在哪裡甚至可以拿來當作藝術創作拿來改寫成劇本成為民眾的休閒但是我們好像就是沒有辦法解決這個問題業務繁雜過勞高殉職比例工時過長人力不足輪班制度無限上綱不能當吹哨者"},{"start":86.975,"end":108.985,"text":"全體的根源在於他們不能為自己發聲對不對這些問題我們都知道但請問部長這是您最後一次的這一周的質詢人將下台其言也善想要請問就你個人而言你同意消防員為自己說話促進消防人員的權益嗎同意你同意嗎那你同意他們組工會嗎"},{"start":111.506,"end":138.384,"text":"議員,其實發生的方式有很多種,那因為消防人員他不是一般的勞工,所以他組工會可能在身份上以我們目前的法制是有他的局限性,但是就是說...沒關係,部長,就你個人的意見,你同意嗎?我覺得可能我們必須考慮到他整個身份問題,然後看怎麼樣在目前的他已經有的,像工協法來強化"},{"start":140.505,"end":146.649,"text":"),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案 〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 〉案"},{"start":161.471,"end":188.45,"text":"所以你剛剛講的就是說你要改這個修工務人員協會法嘛那按照今天全序部的報告全序部去年3月才開始送版本還在徵集各部會的表示意見那2021年這個台劇的劇組都比你們了解問題你們到2023年已經送版本到立法院為什麼到今年的3月7號還在問各單位的意見這不是應該去年就做完的事情嗎為什麼到現在還說在溝通意見呢"},{"start":189.693,"end":212.785,"text":"我們其實是用開會方式處理啊但是後來這個10月30號送到立法院之後因為屆期不連續推來之後呢我們覺得應該直接徵詢縣市政府的意見好所以到現在還在研議嘛對不對相當的研議整個任期都在研議嘛意見不是大家都早就知道嗎那然後蔡政府也不重視然後你剛剛講了屆期不連續就讓他銷聲匿跡現在你們都已經準備要換"},{"start":216.607,"end":220.067,"text":"換內閣了還在演繹那請問你們下一次提版本到底要什麼時候?"},{"start":221.158,"end":249.767,"text":"我想這個施政是延續的啦我們這些資料會交下去到下一屆新的內閣會處理基本上還是朝向在協商內容放寬以及參議門檻降低的方面去處理部長、次長那我現在就拜託你們一件事情你們交到下一任的時候可不可以把這個列為最先的優先事項把這個問題解決好不好你們可不可以到時候要求說這個東西你們強烈建議是下一任的內閣的優先事項"},{"start":251.277,"end":252.878,"text":"國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑"},{"start":272.045,"end":300.549,"text":"他說改革不及早啟動勞保基金恐怕撐不久民國116年之後財務缺口幾乎是懸崖直接跳到太平洋要救都來不及但是這8年下來沒有見到改革只有自民國109年開始透過用公務預算撥補的方式讓現金流穩定部長現在正在籌編明年度的預算請教部長勞動部原本計畫希望行政院明年撥補多少金額"},{"start":301.577,"end":327.087,"text":"拜託委員因為現在在籌編那我們基本上按照過往的經驗政府的撥補應該都會參酌前一年的預算金額來去設定所以應該我想明年的撥補金額應該也不會少不會少就是會很多這樣那明年度至少要撥多少金額才會不會去動用或是變賣國內外的股票或債券跟不動產"},{"start":328.154,"end":352.254,"text":"拜託委員因為那個撥補的金額到底要撥補多少還是要看整個財政的狀況那這幾這像去年跟今年整個的勞保基金的投資效益都不錯像去年的話我們的勞保基金賺了1100億他投資報酬率14.44%這個是帳面的金額你有去你有去做你有去把變賣出來變現出來嗎這個當然就是"},{"start":355.736,"end":361.057,"text":"公務預算撥補的金額恐怕會有調整但是我想要問你你會建議新的部長或未來行政院長在編列這個撥補勞保基金預算至少要多少金額嗎"},{"start":381.228,"end":385.33,"text":"議員王育敏等19人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":404.339,"end":425.315,"text":"μη憑收支差額。但是預估明年度的收支差額應該也至少超過一千三。去年的收支差異是四百四十幾,四四六啦。一一二年嘛。對,我說一一三年。今年度啊。因為這個都是精算報告。這是精算報告預估的啦,包委員。其實實際的差異數有時候"},{"start":427.056,"end":445.162,"text":"),委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員王育敏等193人擬具、「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員"},{"start":453.158,"end":477.089,"text":"報告委員這個是精算報告的數字推估的今年我們還重新做精算報告精算報告不就是要給我們來參考別人的預算用的嗎但是我要跟委員說這是參考數據不是實際會發生的數據可是你都會講精算報告我們不是就要先看到這個數字來做營運嗎我的意思是說政府的撥補他會參考但是也是要橫著他的財務狀況"},{"start":478.49,"end":496.245,"text":"好我先要講你看這裡的表基本上你的收支差就是不斷的在擴大嘛如此繼續擴大我們的收支差額恐怕會不會賴清德第一屆總統任內我們勞保基金三兆的資產恐怕會不夠支付所有的法定支出新任的部長會不會是破產部長"},{"start":498.598,"end":519.412,"text":"因爲你剛剛有講部長你說股市上漲的時候勞動部就會跳出來宣稱說勞動基金賺了好多錢好棒棒但是這都是帳面價值沒有出清錢都只是數字但對於已經請領退休金額的人來講這個現金流才是重點但是我們的給付並沒有發生任何問題是現在沒有基金餘額到9900多億到3月的時候9900多億你現在沒有當然就是因爲你說公約預算一直來撥補不是不是"},{"start":528.998,"end":549.691,"text":"多補當然是一個財源挹注,那去做投資運用那也是增加財源的一個方式。我要再跟委員說我們的這個……好,部長,那我等一下給你看下面的數據。基金就是來填補每年的收支逆差的差距。我們從數據上來看最近六個月,光是這個年金給付一項,人數從175.9萬增長到182.4萬人。"},{"start":555.254,"end":567.163,"text":"擬副金額也從每個月的328.5億增加到340億。這是政府公佈的短期數據是看不太出來有什麼很大的差異性的。但是如果把這數據的時間拉長來看,從108年的2月擬副人數是121.82萬,擬副金額是207億。但是到今年2月已經到了182.4萬人,擬副金額也從207億每個月增長到340億。"},{"start":583.474,"end":601.181,"text":"短短五年的時間幾副人數增長了49.75%幾副金額也增長了63.8%部長你知道這代表的意思是什麼嗎這本來就是在預估的範圍因為已經到一個成熟期其實累增的人數本來就會增加所以"},{"start":601.841,"end":622.024,"text":"之所以才會說這個勞保的問題我們可能要因為這整個人口結構的概念其實我想這應該也不只我們在關心啦已經講了勞保改革很久了嘛對不對是不是蔡英文找因為這些人數都是在原來的預估範圍裡面是但是蔡英文找柯文哲到他們總統府談的時候也講了嘛他第一件事情跟他講的就是勞保改革"},{"start":623.506,"end":642.461,"text":"議員,現在戰後嬰兒潮的退休潮已經開始了。過去五年的無論是增加給付人數或是增加給付金額都是呈現45度的上揚。但是退休者是依據法令的申請退休和申請給付。所以政策上我想你們能夠做的是不是想辦法延退"},{"start":644.855,"end":649.096,"text":"而媒體調查支持延後退休的年齡也有很高的支持率請教部長除了法定的逐步調高退休年齡外我們還有哪些鼓勵延退的機制"},{"start":667.588,"end":683.354,"text":"國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16條條文修正草案：立法院第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全體委員會及第16次全"},{"start":692.79,"end":701.437,"text":"好,那我希望說部長你在交接下一任的時候是不是這件事情也請他們誠實面對不要再一拖再拖拖了八年過去的好謝謝好謝謝"}]}}}}