{"id":152420,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152420","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d7e25ee5d31e17349caa3923bb0f1a26076aa6d1d4e027382d94006c6d412c4d277aaf2a4e3413f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"09:55:26 - 10:02:28","影片長度":"00:07:02","會議時間":"2024-05-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長就「搬遷原住民族語言傳播大樓整備事宜暨調動工作地點後員工各項權益是否合乎勞動基準法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。  二、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、客家委員會主任委員、財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長就「營運情形暨如何因應新媒體發展趨勢」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-13","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-18"},"duration":422,"end_time":"2024-05-13T10:02:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-13T09:55:26+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":498,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（9時55分）謝謝主席，原民會有請。"],["主席：有請副主委。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：牛委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：副主委早安。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是，委員早。"],["牛委員煦庭：上次我質詢的時候就有討論到搬遷的問題，今天針對勞動權益的部分來做一下探討。原住民語言傳播大樓花了17億的公帑，去年12月底在青埔已經上梁，當然還有一段時間，大概在2025年就可以遷入，但是今天討論的重點是，搬家茲事體大嘛！我想請問一下，原文會跟原語會兩個要進到桃園青埔的新大樓，總共有多少員工受到影響？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：應該是全部吧！"],["牛委員煦庭：全部嘛？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：也就是原文會的270個人跟原語會的46個人，對不對？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：全部都要搬家，對不對？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：那裡算是永久辦公室。"],["牛委員煦庭：沒錯，你們現在針對這些員工都做了調查，他們都住哪裡？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是不是請董事長來回答一下？"],["馬耀‧谷木董事長：委員你好，基本上原語會大部分同仁分散在北部，包括桃園、基隆及雙北市。"],["牛委員煦庭：OK，所以看起來影響應該有限囉？因為我們現在講北北桃、北北基桃都是所謂的一日生活圈，會有哪些衝擊？你們收到哪些不滿的意見？"],["馬耀．谷木董事長：第一個就是住宅部分，第二個是交通，還有一個是兒女教育。"],["牛委員煦庭：兒女教育？"],["馬耀．谷木董事長：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：大概就分這幾個問題，我先從交通的問題來探討，因為照理來說，青埔已經算是桃園交通相對便利的地方了，基本上，機場捷運、高鐵等等，算是滿被重視的地方，他們交通的問題是哪一部分呢？還是離現在住的地方太遠了，要通勤？"],["馬耀．谷木董事長：跟委員再做說明，現在是因為大部分的同仁要到便利的地方仍有一段路，他不一定是在那個主要的交通路線，這是第一個，我們做盤點的時候，有做過實際的盤點。"],["牛委員煦庭：你講清楚一點，你說他現在是從臺北出來，然後要到桃園不方便？還是從桃園要到你這個新的大樓不方便？"],["馬耀．谷木董事長：是從住的地方，因為他們分散在不同的大臺北地區嘛，所以這是第一個，要搭方便的是有一段路，所以這是一個。第二個就是，從他們住的地方至少要轉三次左右，這個是在時間上跟經費上會有他們的考慮。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以綜上，我剛剛聽前面委員的詢答，你們說有15%的人是不願意搬遷的對不對？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：對，我們上次調查是15%。"],["牛委員煦庭：這很可怕耶，因為我剛剛聽到你回答的時候，你講說如果他們不願意的話，就要直接資遣，這個不太好啦，你要不要再說明一下？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：不是，這是他不願意，如果他不願意到新的工作地點，當然就是依法資遣他，要付他的福利嘛。"],["牛委員煦庭：我們今天討論這個題目，其實就是希望配套很完整啦，如果真的是我們這樣子，然後資遣了15%的員工，且大部分都是原住民弟兄的話，這恐怕會引起很大的社會爭議啦，所以你不要這樣說。"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：是，委員，我們再補充一下，就是我們在9次跟工會的討論中，已經達成更多的共識，越來越多的員工會移動。"],["牛委員煦庭：根據勞動基準法第十條之一的規定，調動工作不得違反勞動契約等等，其中有一條是講調動地點過遠的時候，雇主應予必要之協助，所以其實法源上給了原民會一定的空間，我覺得應該要編列合理的交通預算來做一些補貼。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是，這個具體事實如果調查出來後，整體應該是沒有問題。"],["牛委員煦庭：你們現在有方向了嗎？這我不得不先說一下，因為你報告裡面第3頁有一個滿好笑的，你說因應搬遷權益，要先興建合宜住宅，我跟你講，興建合宜住宅是好事，員工宿舍本席是支持，不管是產業也好，政府也好，給予員工一定的住宿基本待遇，本來就是照顧勞工的一環，這一點我是非常贊成的，可是問題是你現在才講說我要研擬興建合宜住宅的方案，會不會有點太晚了？2025都要搬家了，那你合宜住宅什麼時候才蓋好？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：跟委員報告，這是他們的需求，有提出來，4月23號他們來我們會裡面時有提出這個需求，不過這個方案都需要評估，因為有沒有土地，這個都要去面對、處理。"],["牛委員煦庭：現在你既然提了，方向上我是不反對的，但是你既然提了，那有沒有明確的時間？合宜住宅的部分。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：因為這個部分具體的計畫，我們請他們在5月22號再提供給我們。"],["牛委員煦庭：5月22號再提供給你們，但它明年就要搬進去了，那等合宜住宅蓋好，這中間三、五年要怎麼辦？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：因為合宜住宅本來就比較難一些。"],["牛委員煦庭：這是我要講的第二個問題，就是以長線來看，如果你有辦法跟桃園市政府妥善的合作，本席非常支持，你需要我幫忙協助、溝通，我也樂意扮演這樣的角色，看看有沒有好的土地可以做這樣的配套，但是這中間總有過渡期嘛，這需要三到五年，也許更久，這中間的過渡期，你的方案是什麼？現在看起來，剛剛在答詢的過程中其實講得很清楚，就是通勤的問題嘛，從臺北怎麼樣快速的送到青埔，中間轉三次車是不是會很麻煩，怎麼樣規劃一定的路線，或者是提供一定的交通津貼，這個部分，你們現在有沒有方案跟草案？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：這個部分等基金會把計畫提給我們，我們大概就會編在我們的預算裡面。"],["牛委員煦庭：會編預算嘛？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：沒關係，你要補充嗎？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：報告委員，其實我們現在優先的是社會住宅的方案，桃園市政府也願意配比比例優先給我們兩會，合宜住宅其實是目前比較後進的方案，比較快的是社會住宅。"],["牛委員煦庭：社會住宅？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：優先搬入社會住宅就對了！好，本席要提醒，因為桃園的社會住宅應該需求量也滿大的，第二個，桃園境內的大眾運輸還有待加強，這當然我們希望中央可以全力來支持。但即便有社會住宅，你可能還是會遇到通勤的問題，再怎麼樣有這些政策的安排，都會有它的過渡期，所以我希望針對過渡期可以看到一定的專案預算編列，不管你是講說要補貼通勤的交通，因為轉車的次數變多了，也許你補貼1200月票或怎麼樣，也是一件好事，或者是輔導租屋嘛，你講社會住宅是一種，但不見得所有人都住得到嘛，這個還是有排序的問題嘛，那沒有住社會住宅的人，是不是要輔導租屋？透過包租代管或什麼周邊的，它可能距離很近嘛。"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：委員沒錯，我們在近期會提前用包租代管的方式，讓同仁能夠有居住的部分。"],["牛委員煦庭：你的目標很單純，就是這個15%最好可以歸零，不要有員工因為你的搬遷而離開，這才是正確的方向啦。"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：委員，現在這個比例大概更低了。"],["牛委員煦庭：但你剛才講之前是15%，聽起來很恐怖耶。"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：委員，因為之前我們的調查確實是這樣。"],["牛委員煦庭：目標就用多種政策手段，尤其是過渡期要把它安排好啦，我們希望這個搬遷的工程可以順利，如果你需要跟桃園市政府來做溝通，我非常樂意扮演這樣的角色，可以嗎？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：是，謝謝委員。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：謝謝委員。"],["牛委員煦庭：謝謝，辛苦了。"],["主席：謝謝牛煦庭委員的質詢，謝謝副主委、兩位董事長。","繼續我們請張宏陸委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":190,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-18","speakers":["高金素梅","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","王美惠","許宇甄","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃建賓","盧縣一","徐欣瑩","李柏毅","黃捷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃仁","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","林倩綺","張智倫","丁學忠","吳琪銘","陳瑩"],"page_start":123,"meetingDate":["2024-05-13"],"gazette_id":"1134301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、財團法人原住民\n族語言研究發展基金會董事長就「搬遷原住民族語言傳播大樓整備事宜暨調動工作地點後員工各\n項權益是否合乎勞動基準法」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財\n團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、客家委員會主任委員、財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董\n事長就「營運情形暨如何因應新媒體發展趨勢」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134301_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"152420","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152420","tool":"pyannote","id":"152420-pyannote"},"job_id":"EUq4XU9b4J0GobtO","queued_at":"2024-05-31 09:11:57","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 09:11:57","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152420"},{"time":"2024-05-31 09:11:58","msg":"downloading 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\"、\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 420.132, \"end\": 420.172, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"董\", \"start\": 420.172, \"end\": 420.252, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 420.252, \"end\": 420.272, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,749 --> 00:00:10,973\n好,謝謝主席喔,原民會有請您好有請副主委\n\n2\n00:00:21,094 --> 00:00:41,809\n主委早安上次我們質詢的時候就有討論到搬遷的問題今天針對勞動權益的部分來做一下探討原住民語言傳播大樓花了我們17億的公帑在去年12月底在青埔已經上糧當然有一段時間大概2025年大家就可以有一個遷入\n\n3\n00:00:42,469 --> 00:01:09,276\n但是今天討論的重點是這個搬家知識體大嘛我想請問一下這個原文會跟原語會兩個要進到桃園青埔的新大樓總共有多少員工受到影響應該是全部吧全部嘛也就是原文會的270個人跟原語會的46個人嘛對不對全部都要搬家嘛對不對照理那是永久辦公室那永久辦公室嘛沒錯所以這些這些員工你們現在都坐吊著他們都住哪裡\n\n4\n00:01:14,306 --> 00:01:21,800\n基本上像研議會的部分大部分分散在北部桃園跟我們桃基的雙北市\n\n5\n00:01:24,218 --> 00:01:43,027\n所以看起來影響應該有限囉?如果都在...因為我們現在講北北桃、北北乩桃都是所謂的一日生活圈會有哪些衝擊?你們收到哪些不滿的意見?第一個就是那個住宅住宅第二個是交通還有一個是兒女教育兒女教育?好大概是分這幾個問題我先從交通的問題來探討\n\n6\n00:01:44,628 --> 00:02:09,228\n照理來說清埔已經算是桃園交通相對便利的地方基本上機場捷運、高鐵等等算是滿被重視的地方他們交通的問題是哪一部分呢還是離現在住的地方太遠了要通勤剛委員在做說明現在目前是因為大部分的同仁這樣要到搭便利的地方有一段路他不一定是在那個主要的交通路線這是第一個所以我們做那個盤點之後有做那個實際的盤點\n\n7\n00:02:14,216 --> 00:02:28,255\n你講清楚一點,你說他現在是從臺北出來,然後到桃園不方便,還是從桃園要到你這個新的大樓不方便?是從住的地方,因為他分散在不同的大臺北區區嘛,所以這是第一個要到\n\n8\n00:02:29,116 --> 00:02:32,258\n我剛剛聽前面委員的答詢你們說15%的人是不願意搬遷的就對了\n\n9\n00:02:51,357 --> 00:03:06,543\n我們上次調查是15%這很可怕因為我剛剛聽到你回答的時候你講說如果他們不願意的話就要直接支錢這個不太好啦不是就是如果他不願意如果他不願意到新的工作地點那當然就是依法支錢他要付他的福利啦\n\n10\n00:03:07,123 --> 00:03:25,618\n我們今天要討論這個題目其實就是希望配套很完整啦如果真的是我們這樣子然後之前的15%的員工還大部分都是原住民弟兄的話這恐怕會引起很大的社會爭議啦所以不要這樣說啦我們再補充一下就是我們在9次跟工會的討論已經達成更多的共識越來越多員工會移動\n\n11\n00:03:26,999 --> 00:03:50,098\n這根據勞動基準法10條之一的規定這個調動工作不得違反勞動契約以及等等那其中有一條想調動地點過遠的時候僱主應與必要之協助所以其實法院上給了這個原民會一定的空間我覺得應該要編列合理的交通運算來做一些補貼這個具體事實如果調查出來後整理應該是沒有問題你們現在有方向沒有\n\n12\n00:03:51,254 --> 00:04:18,612\n因為我這我不得不先說一下因為你報告裡面第三頁有個還蠻好笑的你說因應搬遷權益要先興建合宜住宅我跟你講興建合宜住宅是好事啊就是員工宿舍本期是支持不管是產業也好政府也好給員工一定的這個住宿的基本待遇本來就是照顧勞工的一環這是我是非常贊成的可是問題是你現在才講說我要研擬興建合宜住宅的方法會不會有點太晚啊2025都要搬家了那你合宜住宅什麼時候才來因為包括就是他們的需求有提在\n\n13\n00:04:19,449 --> 00:04:38,671\n4月23號他們來我們會裡面有提出這個需求不過這個方案都需要評估因為有沒有土地這個都要去做面對處理好那你既然提了有沒有方向上我是不反對的但是你既然提了那裡有沒有明確的時間合一住宅的這部分因為這個部分的具體具體的計畫我們請他們在5月22號再提供給我們\n\n14\n00:04:39,571 --> 00:05:08,102\n五月二十二號再提供給我們他明年就要搬進去了那這等合一住才蓋好這中間三、五年要怎麼辦因為合一住可能是比較難一些這是我要講的第二個問題就是說你長線來你如果有辦法跟桃園市政府妥善的合作本席非常支持你需要我幫忙協助溝通我也樂意扮演這樣的角色看看有沒有好的土地可以做這樣的配套但是中間總有過渡期嘛這三到五年也許更久這中間的過渡期你的方案是什麼現在看起來剛剛在答詢的過程中其實講得很清楚就是通勤的問題嘛是\n\n15\n00:05:09,082 --> 00:05:22,247\n從臺北怎麼樣快速的送到青埔中間是不是轉三次車會不會很麻煩怎麼樣規劃一定的路線或者是提供一定的交通津貼你們這部分現在有沒有方案跟草案這個部分等基金會把計畫提給我們我們大概就會編在我們的預算裡面\n\n16\n00:05:28,933 --> 00:05:43,949\n我們現在優先的是社會住宅的方案那桃園市政府也願意配比比例給優先給我們兩會這樣那合一住宅其實是我目前想比較後進的方案比較快是社會住宅\n\n17\n00:05:44,269 --> 00:06:01,934\n社會住宅優先搬入社會住宅就對了本期要提醒因為桃園的社會住宅應該需求量也蠻大第二個桃園境內的大眾運輸還有待加強這當然我們希望中央可以全力來支持但即便有社會住宅你可能還是會遇到通勤的問題再怎麼樣有政策的安排都會有過渡期\n\n18\n00:06:03,795 --> 00:06:32,249\n所以我希望過陸期我會看到一定的專案的預算的編列不管你是講說我補貼通勤的交通因為我轉車的次數變多了也許你補貼1200月票啊或怎麼樣也是一件好事或者是福島租屋嘛你講社會住宅是一種那不見得所有人都住得到嘛這個還是有這個排序的問題嘛那沒有住社會住宅的人是不是用福島租屋的包租代管或什麼周邊的他可能距離很近嘛我也沒錯就是我們在近期會提前用包租代管的方式讓同仁能夠有住的\n\n19\n00:06:33,553 --> 00:06:58,847\n你的目標很單純就這個15%最好是可以歸零不要有員工因為你的搬遷而離開這才是正確的方向現在這個比例大概更低了那你不要講15%之前很恐怖因為之前我們的調查是這樣目標就是用多種政策手段而且尤其是過渡期要把它安排好我們希望這個搬遷的工程可以順利如果你需要跟桃園市政府來做溝通我非常樂意扮演這樣的角色可以嗎謝謝委員好謝謝辛苦了\n\n20\n00:06:59,187 --> 00:07:00,272\n好,謝謝劉全賢委員的質詢,謝謝副主委、兩位董事長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8749\t10973\t好,謝謝主席喔,原民會有請您好有請副主委\n21094\t41809\t主委早安上次我們質詢的時候就有討論到搬遷的問題今天針對勞動權益的部分來做一下探討原住民語言傳播大樓花了我們17億的公帑在去年12月底在青埔已經上糧當然有一段時間大概2025年大家就可以有一個遷入\n42469\t69276\t但是今天討論的重點是這個搬家知識體大嘛我想請問一下這個原文會跟原語會兩個要進到桃園青埔的新大樓總共有多少員工受到影響應該是全部吧全部嘛也就是原文會的270個人跟原語會的46個人嘛對不對全部都要搬家嘛對不對照理那是永久辦公室那永久辦公室嘛沒錯所以這些這些員工你們現在都坐吊著他們都住哪裡\n74306\t81800\t基本上像研議會的部分大部分分散在北部桃園跟我們桃基的雙北市\n84218\t103027\t所以看起來影響應該有限囉?如果都在...因為我們現在講北北桃、北北乩桃都是所謂的一日生活圈會有哪些衝擊?你們收到哪些不滿的意見?第一個就是那個住宅住宅第二個是交通還有一個是兒女教育兒女教育?好大概是分這幾個問題我先從交通的問題來探討\n104628\t129228\t照理來說清埔已經算是桃園交通相對便利的地方基本上機場捷運、高鐵等等算是滿被重視的地方他們交通的問題是哪一部分呢還是離現在住的地方太遠了 要通勤剛委員在做說明現在目前是因為大部分的同仁這樣要到搭便利的地方有一段路他不一定是在那個主要的交通路線這是第一個所以我們做那個盤點之後有做那個實際的盤點\n134216\t148255\t你講清楚一點,你說他現在是從臺北出來,然後到桃園不方便,還是從桃園要到你這個新的大樓不方便?是從住的地方,因為他分散在不同的大臺北區區嘛,所以這是第一個要到\n149116\t152258\t我剛剛聽前面委員的答詢你們說15%的人是不願意搬遷的就對了\n171357\t186543\t我們上次調查是15%這很可怕因為我剛剛聽到你回答的時候你講說如果他們不願意的話就要直接支錢這個不太好啦不是就是如果他不願意如果他不願意到新的工作地點那當然就是依法支錢他要付他的福利啦\n187123\t205618\t我們今天要討論這個題目其實就是希望配套很完整啦如果真的是我們這樣子然後之前的15%的員工還大部分都是原住民弟兄的話這恐怕會引起很大的社會爭議啦所以不要這樣說啦我們再補充一下就是我們在9次跟工會的討論已經達成更多的共識越來越多員工會移動\n206999\t230098\t這根據勞動基準法10條之一的規定這個調動工作不得違反勞動契約以及等等那其中有一條想調動地點過遠的時候僱主應與必要之協助所以其實法院上給了這個原民會一定的空間我覺得應該要編列合理的交通運算來做一些補貼這個具體事實如果調查出來後整理應該是沒有問題你們現在有方向沒有\n231254\t258612\t因為我這我不得不先說一下因為你報告裡面第三頁有個還蠻好笑的你說因應搬遷權益要先興建合宜住宅我跟你講興建合宜住宅是好事啊就是員工宿舍本期是支持不管是產業也好政府也好給員工一定的這個住宿的基本待遇本來就是照顧勞工的一環這是我是非常贊成的可是問題是你現在才講說我要研擬興建合宜住宅的方法會不會有點太晚啊2025都要搬家了那你合宜住宅什麼時候才來因為包括就是他們的需求有提在\n259449\t278671\t4月23號他們來我們會裡面有提出這個需求不過這個方案都需要評估因為有沒有土地這個都要去做面對處理好那你既然提了有沒有方向上我是不反對的但是你既然提了那裡有沒有明確的時間合一住宅的這部分因為這個部分的具體具體的計畫我們請他們在5月22號再提供給我們\n279571\t308102\t五月二十二號再提供給我們他明年就要搬進去了那這等合一住才蓋好這中間三、五年要怎麼辦因為合一住可能是比較難一些這是我要講的第二個問題就是說你長線來你如果有辦法跟桃園市政府妥善的合作本席非常支持你需要我幫忙協助溝通我也樂意扮演這樣的角色看看有沒有好的土地可以做這樣的配套但是中間總有過渡期嘛這三到五年也許更久這中間的過渡期你的方案是什麼現在看起來剛剛在答詢的過程中其實講得很清楚就是通勤的問題嘛是\n309082\t322247\t從臺北怎麼樣快速的送到青埔中間是不是轉三次車會不會很麻煩怎麼樣規劃一定的路線或者是提供一定的交通津貼你們這部分現在有沒有方案跟草案這個部分等基金會把計畫提給我們我們大概就會編在我們的預算裡面\n328933\t343949\t我們現在優先的是社會住宅的方案那桃園市政府也願意配比比例給優先給我們兩會這樣那合一住宅其實是我目前想比較後進的方案比較快是社會住宅\n344269\t361934\t社會住宅優先搬入社會住宅就對了本期要提醒因為桃園的社會住宅應該需求量也蠻大第二個桃園境內的大眾運輸還有待加強這當然我們希望中央可以全力來支持但即便有社會住宅你可能還是會遇到通勤的問題再怎麼樣有政策的安排都會有過渡期\n363795\t392249\t所以我希望過陸期我會看到一定的專案的預算的編列不管你是講說我補貼通勤的交通因為我轉車的次數變多了也許你補貼1200月票啊或怎麼樣也是一件好事或者是福島租屋嘛你講社會住宅是一種那不見得所有人都住得到嘛這個還是有這個排序的問題嘛那沒有住社會住宅的人是不是用福島租屋的包租代管或什麼周邊的他可能距離很近嘛 我也沒錯就是我們在近期會提前用包租代管的方式讓同仁能夠有住的\n393553\t418847\t你的目標很單純就這個15%最好是可以歸零不要有員工因為你的搬遷而離開這才是正確的方向現在這個比例大概更低了那你不要講15%之前很恐怖因為之前我們的調查是這樣目標就是用多種政策手段而且尤其是過渡期要把它安排好我們希望這個搬遷的工程可以順利如果你需要跟桃園市政府來做溝通我非常樂意扮演這樣的角色 可以嗎謝謝委員好 謝謝辛苦了\n419187\t420272\t好,謝謝劉全賢委員的質詢,謝謝副主委、兩位董事長\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席喔,原民會有請您好有請副主委\n主委早安上次我們質詢的時候就有討論到搬遷的問題今天針對勞動權益的部分來做一下探討原住民語言傳播大樓花了我們17億的公帑在去年12月底在青埔已經上糧當然有一段時間大概2025年大家就可以有一個遷入\n但是今天討論的重點是這個搬家知識體大嘛我想請問一下這個原文會跟原語會兩個要進到桃園青埔的新大樓總共有多少員工受到影響應該是全部吧全部嘛也就是原文會的270個人跟原語會的46個人嘛對不對全部都要搬家嘛對不對照理那是永久辦公室那永久辦公室嘛沒錯所以這些這些員工你們現在都坐吊著他們都住哪裡\n基本上像研議會的部分大部分分散在北部桃園跟我們桃基的雙北市\n所以看起來影響應該有限囉?如果都在...因為我們現在講北北桃、北北乩桃都是所謂的一日生活圈會有哪些衝擊?你們收到哪些不滿的意見?第一個就是那個住宅住宅第二個是交通還有一個是兒女教育兒女教育?好大概是分這幾個問題我先從交通的問題來探討\n照理來說清埔已經算是桃園交通相對便利的地方基本上機場捷運、高鐵等等算是滿被重視的地方他們交通的問題是哪一部分呢還是離現在住的地方太遠了 要通勤剛委員在做說明現在目前是因為大部分的同仁這樣要到搭便利的地方有一段路他不一定是在那個主要的交通路線這是第一個所以我們做那個盤點之後有做那個實際的盤點\n你講清楚一點,你說他現在是從臺北出來,然後到桃園不方便,還是從桃園要到你這個新的大樓不方便?是從住的地方,因為他分散在不同的大臺北區區嘛,所以這是第一個要到\n我剛剛聽前面委員的答詢你們說15%的人是不願意搬遷的就對了\n我們上次調查是15%這很可怕因為我剛剛聽到你回答的時候你講說如果他們不願意的話就要直接支錢這個不太好啦不是就是如果他不願意如果他不願意到新的工作地點那當然就是依法支錢他要付他的福利啦\n我們今天要討論這個題目其實就是希望配套很完整啦如果真的是我們這樣子然後之前的15%的員工還大部分都是原住民弟兄的話這恐怕會引起很大的社會爭議啦所以不要這樣說啦我們再補充一下就是我們在9次跟工會的討論已經達成更多的共識越來越多員工會移動\n這根據勞動基準法10條之一的規定這個調動工作不得違反勞動契約以及等等那其中有一條想調動地點過遠的時候僱主應與必要之協助所以其實法院上給了這個原民會一定的空間我覺得應該要編列合理的交通運算來做一些補貼這個具體事實如果調查出來後整理應該是沒有問題你們現在有方向沒有\n因為我這我不得不先說一下因為你報告裡面第三頁有個還蠻好笑的你說因應搬遷權益要先興建合宜住宅我跟你講興建合宜住宅是好事啊就是員工宿舍本期是支持不管是產業也好政府也好給員工一定的這個住宿的基本待遇本來就是照顧勞工的一環這是我是非常贊成的可是問題是你現在才講說我要研擬興建合宜住宅的方法會不會有點太晚啊2025都要搬家了那你合宜住宅什麼時候才來因為包括就是他們的需求有提在\n4月23號他們來我們會裡面有提出這個需求不過這個方案都需要評估因為有沒有土地這個都要去做面對處理好那你既然提了有沒有方向上我是不反對的但是你既然提了那裡有沒有明確的時間合一住宅的這部分因為這個部分的具體具體的計畫我們請他們在5月22號再提供給我們\n五月二十二號再提供給我們他明年就要搬進去了那這等合一住才蓋好這中間三、五年要怎麼辦因為合一住可能是比較難一些這是我要講的第二個問題就是說你長線來你如果有辦法跟桃園市政府妥善的合作本席非常支持你需要我幫忙協助溝通我也樂意扮演這樣的角色看看有沒有好的土地可以做這樣的配套但是中間總有過渡期嘛這三到五年也許更久這中間的過渡期你的方案是什麼現在看起來剛剛在答詢的過程中其實講得很清楚就是通勤的問題嘛是\n從臺北怎麼樣快速的送到青埔中間是不是轉三次車會不會很麻煩怎麼樣規劃一定的路線或者是提供一定的交通津貼你們這部分現在有沒有方案跟草案這個部分等基金會把計畫提給我們我們大概就會編在我們的預算裡面\n我們現在優先的是社會住宅的方案那桃園市政府也願意配比比例給優先給我們兩會這樣那合一住宅其實是我目前想比較後進的方案比較快是社會住宅\n社會住宅優先搬入社會住宅就對了本期要提醒因為桃園的社會住宅應該需求量也蠻大第二個桃園境內的大眾運輸還有待加強這當然我們希望中央可以全力來支持但即便有社會住宅你可能還是會遇到通勤的問題再怎麼樣有政策的安排都會有過渡期\n所以我希望過陸期我會看到一定的專案的預算的編列不管你是講說我補貼通勤的交通因為我轉車的次數變多了也許你補貼1200月票啊或怎麼樣也是一件好事或者是福島租屋嘛你講社會住宅是一種那不見得所有人都住得到嘛這個還是有這個排序的問題嘛那沒有住社會住宅的人是不是用福島租屋的包租代管或什麼周邊的他可能距離很近嘛 我也沒錯就是我們在近期會提前用包租代管的方式讓同仁能夠有住的\n你的目標很單純就這個15%最好是可以歸零不要有員工因為你的搬遷而離開這才是正確的方向現在這個比例大概更低了那你不要講15%之前很恐怖因為之前我們的調查是這樣目標就是用多種政策手段而且尤其是過渡期要把它安排好我們希望這個搬遷的工程可以順利如果你需要跟桃園市政府來做溝通我非常樂意扮演這樣的角色 可以嗎謝謝委員好 謝謝辛苦了\n好,謝謝劉全賢委員的質詢,謝謝副主委、兩位董事長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.749 --> 00:10.973\n好,謝謝主席喔,原民會有請您好有請副主委\n\n00:21.094 --> 00:41.809\n主委早安上次我們質詢的時候就有討論到搬遷的問題今天針對勞動權益的部分來做一下探討原住民語言傳播大樓花了我們17億的公帑在去年12月底在青埔已經上糧當然有一段時間大概2025年大家就可以有一個遷入\n\n00:42.469 --> 01:09.276\n但是今天討論的重點是這個搬家知識體大嘛我想請問一下這個原文會跟原語會兩個要進到桃園青埔的新大樓總共有多少員工受到影響應該是全部吧全部嘛也就是原文會的270個人跟原語會的46個人嘛對不對全部都要搬家嘛對不對照理那是永久辦公室那永久辦公室嘛沒錯所以這些這些員工你們現在都坐吊著他們都住哪裡\n\n01:14.306 --> 01:21.800\n基本上像研議會的部分大部分分散在北部桃園跟我們桃基的雙北市\n\n01:24.218 --> 01:43.027\n所以看起來影響應該有限囉?如果都在...因為我們現在講北北桃、北北乩桃都是所謂的一日生活圈會有哪些衝擊?你們收到哪些不滿的意見?第一個就是那個住宅住宅第二個是交通還有一個是兒女教育兒女教育?好大概是分這幾個問題我先從交通的問題來探討\n\n01:44.628 --> 02:09.228\n照理來說清埔已經算是桃園交通相對便利的地方基本上機場捷運、高鐵等等算是滿被重視的地方他們交通的問題是哪一部分呢還是離現在住的地方太遠了要通勤剛委員在做說明現在目前是因為大部分的同仁這樣要到搭便利的地方有一段路他不一定是在那個主要的交通路線這是第一個所以我們做那個盤點之後有做那個實際的盤點\n\n02:14.216 --> 02:28.255\n你講清楚一點,你說他現在是從臺北出來,然後到桃園不方便,還是從桃園要到你這個新的大樓不方便?是從住的地方,因為他分散在不同的大臺北區區嘛,所以這是第一個要到\n\n02:29.116 --> 02:32.258\n我剛剛聽前面委員的答詢你們說15%的人是不願意搬遷的就對了\n\n02:51.357 --> 03:06.543\n我們上次調查是15%這很可怕因為我剛剛聽到你回答的時候你講說如果他們不願意的話就要直接支錢這個不太好啦不是就是如果他不願意如果他不願意到新的工作地點那當然就是依法支錢他要付他的福利啦\n\n03:07.123 --> 03:25.618\n我們今天要討論這個題目其實就是希望配套很完整啦如果真的是我們這樣子然後之前的15%的員工還大部分都是原住民弟兄的話這恐怕會引起很大的社會爭議啦所以不要這樣說啦我們再補充一下就是我們在9次跟工會的討論已經達成更多的共識越來越多員工會移動\n\n03:26.999 --> 03:50.098\n這根據勞動基準法10條之一的規定這個調動工作不得違反勞動契約以及等等那其中有一條想調動地點過遠的時候僱主應與必要之協助所以其實法院上給了這個原民會一定的空間我覺得應該要編列合理的交通運算來做一些補貼這個具體事實如果調查出來後整理應該是沒有問題你們現在有方向沒有\n\n03:51.254 --> 04:18.612\n因為我這我不得不先說一下因為你報告裡面第三頁有個還蠻好笑的你說因應搬遷權益要先興建合宜住宅我跟你講興建合宜住宅是好事啊就是員工宿舍本期是支持不管是產業也好政府也好給員工一定的這個住宿的基本待遇本來就是照顧勞工的一環這是我是非常贊成的可是問題是你現在才講說我要研擬興建合宜住宅的方法會不會有點太晚啊2025都要搬家了那你合宜住宅什麼時候才來因為包括就是他們的需求有提在\n\n04:19.449 --> 04:38.671\n4月23號他們來我們會裡面有提出這個需求不過這個方案都需要評估因為有沒有土地這個都要去做面對處理好那你既然提了有沒有方向上我是不反對的但是你既然提了那裡有沒有明確的時間合一住宅的這部分因為這個部分的具體具體的計畫我們請他們在5月22號再提供給我們\n\n04:39.571 --> 05:08.102\n五月二十二號再提供給我們他明年就要搬進去了那這等合一住才蓋好這中間三、五年要怎麼辦因為合一住可能是比較難一些這是我要講的第二個問題就是說你長線來你如果有辦法跟桃園市政府妥善的合作本席非常支持你需要我幫忙協助溝通我也樂意扮演這樣的角色看看有沒有好的土地可以做這樣的配套但是中間總有過渡期嘛這三到五年也許更久這中間的過渡期你的方案是什麼現在看起來剛剛在答詢的過程中其實講得很清楚就是通勤的問題嘛是\n\n05:09.082 --> 05:22.247\n從臺北怎麼樣快速的送到青埔中間是不是轉三次車會不會很麻煩怎麼樣規劃一定的路線或者是提供一定的交通津貼你們這部分現在有沒有方案跟草案這個部分等基金會把計畫提給我們我們大概就會編在我們的預算裡面\n\n05:28.933 --> 05:43.949\n我們現在優先的是社會住宅的方案那桃園市政府也願意配比比例給優先給我們兩會這樣那合一住宅其實是我目前想比較後進的方案比較快是社會住宅\n\n05:44.269 --> 06:01.934\n社會住宅優先搬入社會住宅就對了本期要提醒因為桃園的社會住宅應該需求量也蠻大第二個桃園境內的大眾運輸還有待加強這當然我們希望中央可以全力來支持但即便有社會住宅你可能還是會遇到通勤的問題再怎麼樣有政策的安排都會有過渡期\n\n06:03.795 --> 06:32.249\n所以我希望過陸期我會看到一定的專案的預算的編列不管你是講說我補貼通勤的交通因為我轉車的次數變多了也許你補貼1200月票啊或怎麼樣也是一件好事或者是福島租屋嘛你講社會住宅是一種那不見得所有人都住得到嘛這個還是有這個排序的問題嘛那沒有住社會住宅的人是不是用福島租屋的包租代管或什麼周邊的他可能距離很近嘛我也沒錯就是我們在近期會提前用包租代管的方式讓同仁能夠有住的\n\n06:33.553 --> 06:58.847\n你的目標很單純就這個15%最好是可以歸零不要有員工因為你的搬遷而離開這才是正確的方向現在這個比例大概更低了那你不要講15%之前很恐怖因為之前我們的調查是這樣目標就是用多種政策手段而且尤其是過渡期要把它安排好我們希望這個搬遷的工程可以順利如果你需要跟桃園市政府來做溝通我非常樂意扮演這樣的角色可以嗎謝謝委員好謝謝辛苦了\n\n06:59.187 --> 07:00.272\n好,謝謝劉全賢委員的質詢,謝謝副主委、兩位董事長\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.749,"end":10.973,"text":"好,謝謝主席喔,原民會有請您好有請副主委"},{"start":21.094,"end":41.809,"text":"主委早安上次我們質詢的時候就有討論到搬遷的問題今天針對勞動權益的部分來做一下探討原住民語言傳播大樓花了我們17億的公帑在去年12月底在青埔已經上糧當然有一段時間大概2025年大家就可以有一個遷入"},{"start":42.469,"end":69.276,"text":"但是今天討論的重點是這個搬家知識體大嘛我想請問一下這個原文會跟原語會兩個要進到桃園青埔的新大樓總共有多少員工受到影響應該是全部吧全部嘛也就是原文會的270個人跟原語會的46個人嘛對不對全部都要搬家嘛對不對照理那是永久辦公室那永久辦公室嘛沒錯所以這些這些員工你們現在都坐吊著他們都住哪裡"},{"start":74.306,"end":81.8,"text":"基本上像研議會的部分大部分分散在北部桃園跟我們桃基的雙北市"},{"start":84.218,"end":103.027,"text":"所以看起來影響應該有限囉?如果都在...因為我們現在講北北桃、北北乩桃都是所謂的一日生活圈會有哪些衝擊?你們收到哪些不滿的意見?第一個就是那個住宅住宅第二個是交通還有一個是兒女教育兒女教育?好大概是分這幾個問題我先從交通的問題來探討"},{"start":104.628,"end":129.228,"text":"照理來說清埔已經算是桃園交通相對便利的地方基本上機場捷運、高鐵等等算是滿被重視的地方他們交通的問題是哪一部分呢還是離現在住的地方太遠了 要通勤剛委員在做說明現在目前是因為大部分的同仁這樣要到搭便利的地方有一段路他不一定是在那個主要的交通路線這是第一個所以我們做那個盤點之後有做那個實際的盤點"},{"start":134.216,"end":148.255,"text":"你講清楚一點,你說他現在是從臺北出來,然後到桃園不方便,還是從桃園要到你這個新的大樓不方便?是從住的地方,因為他分散在不同的大臺北區區嘛,所以這是第一個要到"},{"start":149.116,"end":152.258,"text":"我剛剛聽前面委員的答詢你們說15%的人是不願意搬遷的就對了"},{"start":171.357,"end":186.543,"text":"我們上次調查是15%這很可怕因為我剛剛聽到你回答的時候你講說如果他們不願意的話就要直接支錢這個不太好啦不是就是如果他不願意如果他不願意到新的工作地點那當然就是依法支錢他要付他的福利啦"},{"start":187.123,"end":205.618,"text":"我們今天要討論這個題目其實就是希望配套很完整啦如果真的是我們這樣子然後之前的15%的員工還大部分都是原住民弟兄的話這恐怕會引起很大的社會爭議啦所以不要這樣說啦我們再補充一下就是我們在9次跟工會的討論已經達成更多的共識越來越多員工會移動"},{"start":206.999,"end":230.098,"text":"這根據勞動基準法10條之一的規定這個調動工作不得違反勞動契約以及等等那其中有一條想調動地點過遠的時候僱主應與必要之協助所以其實法院上給了這個原民會一定的空間我覺得應該要編列合理的交通運算來做一些補貼這個具體事實如果調查出來後整理應該是沒有問題你們現在有方向沒有"},{"start":231.254,"end":258.612,"text":"因為我這我不得不先說一下因為你報告裡面第三頁有個還蠻好笑的你說因應搬遷權益要先興建合宜住宅我跟你講興建合宜住宅是好事啊就是員工宿舍本期是支持不管是產業也好政府也好給員工一定的這個住宿的基本待遇本來就是照顧勞工的一環這是我是非常贊成的可是問題是你現在才講說我要研擬興建合宜住宅的方法會不會有點太晚啊2025都要搬家了那你合宜住宅什麼時候才來因為包括就是他們的需求有提在"},{"start":259.449,"end":278.671,"text":"4月23號他們來我們會裡面有提出這個需求不過這個方案都需要評估因為有沒有土地這個都要去做面對處理好那你既然提了有沒有方向上我是不反對的但是你既然提了那裡有沒有明確的時間合一住宅的這部分因為這個部分的具體具體的計畫我們請他們在5月22號再提供給我們"},{"start":279.571,"end":308.102,"text":"五月二十二號再提供給我們他明年就要搬進去了那這等合一住才蓋好這中間三、五年要怎麼辦因為合一住可能是比較難一些這是我要講的第二個問題就是說你長線來你如果有辦法跟桃園市政府妥善的合作本席非常支持你需要我幫忙協助溝通我也樂意扮演這樣的角色看看有沒有好的土地可以做這樣的配套但是中間總有過渡期嘛這三到五年也許更久這中間的過渡期你的方案是什麼現在看起來剛剛在答詢的過程中其實講得很清楚就是通勤的問題嘛是"},{"start":309.082,"end":322.247,"text":"從臺北怎麼樣快速的送到青埔中間是不是轉三次車會不會很麻煩怎麼樣規劃一定的路線或者是提供一定的交通津貼你們這部分現在有沒有方案跟草案這個部分等基金會把計畫提給我們我們大概就會編在我們的預算裡面"},{"start":328.933,"end":343.949,"text":"我們現在優先的是社會住宅的方案那桃園市政府也願意配比比例給優先給我們兩會這樣那合一住宅其實是我目前想比較後進的方案比較快是社會住宅"},{"start":344.269,"end":361.934,"text":"社會住宅優先搬入社會住宅就對了本期要提醒因為桃園的社會住宅應該需求量也蠻大第二個桃園境內的大眾運輸還有待加強這當然我們希望中央可以全力來支持但即便有社會住宅你可能還是會遇到通勤的問題再怎麼樣有政策的安排都會有過渡期"},{"start":363.795,"end":392.249,"text":"所以我希望過陸期我會看到一定的專案的預算的編列不管你是講說我補貼通勤的交通因為我轉車的次數變多了也許你補貼1200月票啊或怎麼樣也是一件好事或者是福島租屋嘛你講社會住宅是一種那不見得所有人都住得到嘛這個還是有這個排序的問題嘛那沒有住社會住宅的人是不是用福島租屋的包租代管或什麼周邊的他可能距離很近嘛 我也沒錯就是我們在近期會提前用包租代管的方式讓同仁能夠有住的"},{"start":393.553,"end":418.847,"text":"你的目標很單純就這個15%最好是可以歸零不要有員工因為你的搬遷而離開這才是正確的方向現在這個比例大概更低了那你不要講15%之前很恐怖因為之前我們的調查是這樣目標就是用多種政策手段而且尤其是過渡期要把它安排好我們希望這個搬遷的工程可以順利如果你需要跟桃園市政府來做溝通我非常樂意扮演這樣的角色 可以嗎謝謝委員好 謝謝辛苦了"},{"start":419.187,"end":420.272,"text":"好,謝謝劉全賢委員的質詢,謝謝副主委、兩位董事長"}]}}}}