{"id":152424,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152424","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d7e25ee5d31e17345c60fd5049fc04f8ba70ea388d46c21f2d94006c6d412c4dd4739e4e9503208b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"10:16:22 - 10:29:29","影片長度":"00:13:07","會議時間":"2024-05-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「大學推動國際招生及臺灣優華語計畫之執行成效及檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-13","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-12"},"duration":787,"end_time":"2024-05-13T10:29:29+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-13T10:16:22+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":289,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（10時16分）我請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：來，部長，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：部長好。今天我們是在討論我們的大學怎麼去國際招生，主要是因應少子化，甚至於可以招攬一些外籍生，未來可以輔導他在臺灣就業，補充我們勞動市場的不足，今天應該主題是這個，沒錯嘛？我想問一下，教育部在推動這相關計畫的時候，KPI是什麼？是以人數當作KPI嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，人數只是其中之一，其實我們為什麼後續在大學的發展體制裡面，高教生深耕計畫的二期會把國際化作為一個很重要學校去做的重點？是因為有越來越多的國際學生到臺灣來，那些的服務措施包含怎麼樣去做才會有好的品質……"],["葉委員元之：部長，不好意思，我是比較希望你針對我的問題回答啦，所以人數是越多越好，還是你對人數會有一個總額限制？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，人數方面，其實每一個計畫裡面都有一個規範。"],["葉委員元之：所以沒有說越多越好？"],["潘部長文忠：所以像新南向產攜專班，召委最瞭解了……"],["葉委員元之：你會控制在一定的名額以內？"],["潘部長文忠：我們是要嚴格審查計畫。"],["葉委員元之：對，嚴格審查，但是是多多益善？"],["潘部長文忠：並不是在求量，真的不是在求量。"],["葉委員元之：如果有越多很優質的學生願意來，我們就儘量開放？"],["潘部長文忠：當然，他是真的來臺灣求學，而不是魚目混珠來打工等等，如果他是來求學之後去做勞基法所允許的工讀，這個倒不成問題。"],["葉委員元之：瞭解，謝謝。部長，我很高興聽到你說要嚴格把關，不是以人數濫竽充數，但我知道教育部補助給新南向學生非常多的錢，你們實際上有沒有去追蹤他們來之後，到底對於臺灣教育、甚至於對我們的就業市場有多大的幫助？我不知道你們到底有沒有做這樣的審核？"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，委員……"],["葉委員元之：再來，以我們的數據來看，新南向國家有非常多，我知道新南向是蔡政府的政績，主要都一直在講新南向，但新南向也有很多國家，實際上你們好像特別重視越南、印尼跟馬來西亞，光是這三個國家的學生就占了將近六成，不知道為什麼其他國家不能積極去招生呢？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，我們會積極，因為……"],["葉委員元之：那為什麼比例失衡那麼多？"],["潘部長文忠：不是，這是因為第一個，他們也要有意願來……"],["葉委員元之：為什麼只有他們有意願？有沒有意願本來就是看你怎麼招嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：委員，我們有10個招生基地，目前這3個……"],["葉委員元之：好啦，部長，我也不為難你啦！我點出問題，我們希望說，既然你希望透過這個方式國際化，但國際化當然就是國家多多益善，不要只重視幾個國家。"],["潘部長文忠：不會啦！"],["葉委員元之：再來，既然我們想要推動大學跟國外交流，當然是想要補充國內市場，但我不知道陸生為什麼老是被排斥？"],["潘部長文忠：沒有啊，那是中共排斥，不是我們。"],["葉委員元之：沒有、沒有，去年侯友宜做新北市長在選總統的時候，也有提出希望有陸生來臺就學，然後可以留下來工作，結果就被民進黨罵爆，說這些陸生會大量搶臺灣年輕人的工作。但我就覺得很奇怪，教育部不是對於陸生留下來工作有相關的管制嗎？為什麼這些民進黨立委會提出這樣的質疑呢？再來，我們找了那麼多越南、印尼、馬來西亞的人來這邊讀書、就業，就不怕他們搶我們年輕人的工作嗎？差別在哪？"],["潘部長文忠：不好意思！我要這樣講是因為它有個源頭，當時馬總統開啟陸生來臺這個部分，當時有一個三限六不的政策。"],["葉委員元之：有嘛！不是就有三限六不嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：如果是當時一開始就有這樣的……"],["葉委員元之：部長，所以你也很怕開放陸生來臺會搶我們年輕人的工作？你怕不怕？"],["潘部長文忠：因為三限六不就沒有工作……"],["葉委員元之：對嘛！所以去年民進黨在罵什麼？如果你贊同那些民進黨看法的話，我就很擔心越南、印尼、馬來西亞的人來搶我們臺灣年輕人的工作，教育部的業務都不用推動了嘛！所以真的不用太多意識形態！再來我問一個問題，韓院長在3月多出席一個臺英國會聯誼活動的時候，有提到希望英國一些名校可以來臺灣設分部，他主要是認為假設英國名校在臺灣設分部，我們周邊的國家或其他國家的學生也可以來就學，可以增加一些國際學生交流的機會，部長知道這件事嗎？你知不知道？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，依照私校法的規定是合作開班。"],["葉委員元之：不是，他希望能夠設臺灣分校，你知不知道這件事？你不知道？沒關係！因為部長日理萬機，也不見得知道院長講過什麼。但是有一個人講過，你不知道就有點誇張了，賴清德在2017年的時候也說希望外國名校可以來臺設分校，而且他還講來臺設分校可以承接我們退場私校的場地，這是2017年講的。賴清德準總統在競選總統的時候也講過真的非常鼓勵國際一流學府來臺設立分校，而且沒有對任何一個國家設限，然後記者問他北大、復旦來呢？他都沒有設限，我現在不是要針對北大、復旦，我現在只是想問，韓院長講了，你說你不知道，但是賴清德前行政院長在2017年講過，去年的政見他也主張這件事情，教育部到底有沒有接收到這個訊息、有沒有著手去推動這個方案？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，現在依照私校法的規範，他如果來就必須遵循，這個部分可能需要再做一些突破。"],["葉委員元之：不是！賴清德講話你都沒有在聽，這是他講的，你覺得這是一個方向嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，如果他們是適用私校法……"],["葉委員元之：好啦！部長，我不為難你，但是這是韓院長講的，也是你們賴準總統講的，當然你也可以不用理他了，但是教育部有沒有要理？你旁邊是高教司長嗎？你知道這件事嗎？"],["朱代理司長俊彰：這個部分要修私校法，謝謝。"],["葉委員元之：不是你告訴我有什麼困難，我是說你有沒有要做這個事情，這是賴清德準總統講的，你有沒有要做？沒有？哇賽！這個司長很大尾，居然打臉賴清德準總統！我覺得我不是故意要找你麻煩，我是把賴清德講的話一個字一個字唸出來，所以你們不曉得這個事情，還是賴清德開芭樂票？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這個部分在目前來講……"],["葉委員元之：沒關係！我不為難你，我要繼續……"],["潘部長文忠：後續如果需要修私校法可以在大會討論。"],["葉委員元之：不是我們在大會討論，這是你們準總統說要推的東西，什麼我們在大會討論？你們開的政見可以隨便講講喔！面對學生的時候講一套，現在我們在立法院問的時候就說立法委員要推，你們自己在大會討論，這太奇怪了吧！高教司長說要修私校法，結果變成立法委員的事了，賴清德以後什麼事都不用開支票了嘛！競選連任的時候也不用講這些有的沒的，反正也沒有要落實啊！","最後，我要問一個問題，最近大家非常關心行政機關到底可不可以隨便把一些公文或一些文件列密等，既然高教司長朱司長在現場，請教蔡英文總統的升等論文現在是密等，是不是？"],["潘部長文忠：它只是依照一般慣性的……"],["葉委員元之：公務機密、列密等？"],["潘部長文忠：所有學生的論文都是一樣的。"],["葉委員元之：學生論文都是公開的。"],["潘部長文忠：抱歉！升等論文。"],["葉委員元之：沒有，你根據什麼法律列密等？"],["潘部長文忠：沒有啊！"],["葉委員元之：列密等要有法源基礎，根據什麼法律列密等？請司長回答。"],["朱代理司長俊彰：跟委員報告，目前所有教師資格審查的資料……"],["葉委員元之：根據什麼法律？你不能自己說要列就列嘛！臺灣是依法行政，還是依你朱司長的命令？"],["朱代理司長俊彰：目前是根據部內……"],["葉委員元之：什麼辦法、什麼法律？"],["朱代理司長俊彰：行政機關處理文書作業手冊裡面的規定。"],["葉委員元之：請問行政機關處理文書手冊哪一條說升等論文要列密等？"],["朱代理司長俊彰：所有有涉及到申請人個資的，我們都會列密等。"],["葉委員元之：請問為什麼升等論文是個資？我問過非常多的大學教授，他們說升等論文哪有是密等這種事，大家都是根據已經公開的論文或公開的文章拿去升等，這些都公開的，為什麼只有蔡英文總統升等要列為密等？密等年限多久？"],["朱代理司長俊彰：論文本身並沒有列密等，是升等……"],["葉委員元之：好啊！那你就把他的論文公開。"],["朱代理司長俊彰：論文已經公開了。"],["葉委員元之：升等的內容。"],["朱代理司長俊彰：升等論文的內容是公開的，是申請人的申請表跟教師資格審查的過程是列密等，論文本身是公開的。"],["葉委員元之：所以他的升等論文有公開，公開在哪裡？"],["朱代理司長俊彰：論文都是公開的，目前在國圖……"],["葉委員元之：國圖那個是學位論文。"],["朱代理司長俊彰：國圖、政大和中原大學的圖書館都可以看得到。"],["葉委員元之：你講的是學位論文還是升等論文？"],["朱代理司長俊彰：升等論文。"],["葉委員元之：升等論文在國圖和政大……"],["朱代理司長俊彰：我們有去查過圖書館，我們會後可以提供給委員。"],["葉委員元之：你說你有看過在英國倫敦政經學院的學位論文？"],["朱代理司長俊彰：我本人沒有到英國看過。"],["葉委員元之：你沒有看過，為什麼你當時可以出來講那個論文是真的？請問那個論文是當初蔡英文總統在英國畢業的時候交給圖書館的？還是後來才補交的？"],["朱代理司長俊彰：跟委員報告，我們有透過駐英代表處……"],["葉委員元之：我問的問題，你就直接回答我，那個是他畢業之後拿去的？還是後來大家在質疑他沒論文的時候拿去的？是哪一個時間點？"],["朱代理司長俊彰：這個部分我們有透過駐英代表跟……"],["葉委員元之：你回答我的問題，什麼透過駐英代表？我問你的是時間點是哪一個？不要在國會殿堂那邊耍嘴皮子，哪一個時間點？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這個部分都沒有例外……"],["葉委員元之：部長，我問司長是哪一個時間點？"],["潘部長文忠：包含所有教授的論文是一致的規範……"],["葉委員元之：部長，不好意思！不好意思！我現在的問題是你們的司長公開講過蔡英文的學位論文在英國圖書館看到……"],["潘部長文忠：委員，你問司長一個……他又沒有在英國圖書館上班……"],["葉委員元之：我現在的問題是他畢業交過去，還是後來遺失再補交的？你回答我這個問題嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：總統府、蔡總統當時都已經說明了……"],["葉委員元之：部長，我剛剛對你很客氣……"],["潘部長文忠：你為難司長了，司長不是在英國圖書館上班的館員。"],["葉委員元之：我現在就事論事而已，不用那麼急著出來護航，當你出來插話的時候，我就知道你心虛了。"],["潘部長文忠：沒有、沒有，委員，你問得過頭了，我當然要說明。"],["葉委員元之：我問哪裡過頭？"],["潘部長文忠：他不是英國圖書館的館員。"],["葉委員元之：司長之前講他看過……"],["潘部長文忠：蔡總統的升等論文本來就是公開的。"],["葉委員元之：我現在問的是他看過的那本是遺失後來補交的，還是畢業之後就交的？因為現在大家質疑的是，所有的畢業生通常畢業都要交論文給圖書館，為什麼蔡總統沒有？今天司長出來講有啊，透過駐英代表處有看過，我現在問的是這是他是補交的還是原本交的，這問題有什麼難回答的嗎？這有那麼難回答嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：不難回答。"],["葉委員元之：你不敢回答就代表心虛嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：沒有什麼好心虛的。"],["葉委員元之：請問是什麼答案？二選一的問題答不出來？"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，這個論文是公開的。"],["葉委員元之：誰問你是不是公開的？"],["潘部長文忠：當時升等論文……"],["葉委員元之：我當然知道他後來有公開，2019年有個白手套記者會他有公開，我現在問的是你們看過的那本是他畢業交的，還是後來白手套公開之後再補過去的？這個問題很難回答嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：不會難回答。"],["葉委員元之：不難回答的話，為什麼司長可以在不瞭解狀況的情況之下，直接出來認證那個論文是真的？"],["潘部長文忠：那個是駐英代表已經確認了，他只是轉達這個概念，他不是到……"],["葉委員元之：所以教育部可以隨便駐英代表講了一個東西之後，然後你們沒有查證就隨便出來背書，教育單位是這樣搞的？"],["潘部長文忠：那些都是經過公家單位的確認。"],["葉委員元之：確認你也要知道細節，我現在問的是那本的年限是到底是畢業之後交的，還是後來大家發現都找不到之後補的，這個問題很難回答嗎？因為你們有確認過，你們透過駐外單位去確認過。"],["潘部長文忠：不是難回答，朱司長不是英國圖書館的館員，沒有辦法回答你講的流程問題。"],["葉委員元之：那你就沒辦法解釋大家的懷疑，就不要在那邊背書嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：沒有背書。"],["葉委員元之：你的答案根本就沒有解除大家的懷疑，你知道嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：因為教育部……"],["葉委員元之：大家的懷疑是為什麼圖書館裡面都沒有他的論文，後來他也許補了一份，你就說看到了，在那個圖書館有，你這樣背書有意義嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：這沒什麼背書，這個議題已經討論很久了。"],["葉委員元之：沒有背書出來講什麼？沒有背書幹嘛出來講？"],["潘部長文忠：外界關心，教育部是主管機關，當然要說我們得到的是什麼訊息，不是這樣嗎？"],["葉委員元之：好啦！沒關係！謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請葛如鈞委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":446,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-12","speakers":["柯志恩","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","萬美玲","羅廷瑋","葉元之","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","張雅琳","吳春城","范雲","麥玉珍","林倩綺","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","陳秀寳"],"page_start":385,"meetingDate":["2024-05-13"],"gazette_id":"1134401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134401_00014"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「大學推動國際招生及臺灣優華語計畫之執行成效及檢討」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134401_00009"}},"transcript":{"id":"152424","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152424","tool":"pyannote","id":"152424-pyannote"},"job_id":"257cAKcUFs4RKM7G","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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00:01:32,989\n委員這個年數其實每一個計畫裡面都有一個規範所以是沒有說越多越好所以像現在像產息專班稍微最了解了你會控制在一定的名額以內我們是要嚴格審查計畫對嚴格審查但是是多多益善所以不是在求量如果說有越多很優質的學生願意來我們就盡量開放他是真的來臺灣求學而不是螢幕混珠來打工等等的\n\n5\n00:01:34,129 --> 00:02:02,298\n如果他是來求學之後去做勞基法所允許的公讀這個到底是甚麼問題?因為我非常很高興聽到你講說會嚴格把關不是以人數濫於充數但我知道說我們教育部補充就是說補助給一些很多新南向的學生非常多的錢但你們實際上有沒有去追蹤他們來之後到底對於臺灣教育甚至於對我們就業市場有多大幫助我不知道到底有沒有做這樣審核\n\n6\n00:02:03,178 --> 00:02:29,319\n然後再來齁實際上我發現就是我們以我們數據來看好像我們多版新南向國家非常多啦我知道新南向是蔡政府的政績嘛就主要都一直在講新南向但新南向也有很多國家那實際上好像特別重視越南印尼跟馬來西亞光是這三個國家的學生呢就佔了將近六成不知道為什麼其他國家不能不能積極去去招生呢\n\n7\n00:02:29,830 --> 00:02:42,233\n委員長我們會積極那為什麼那個鼓勵失衡那麼多這是因為他們第一個他們也要有意願來那為什麼只有他們有意願招生本來意願本來就是看你怎麼招嘛\n\n8\n00:02:43,631 --> 00:02:58,998\n委員我們有一個10個招生基地目前設三個我點出問題啦我們希望說既然你希望透過這個方式國際化國際化當然國家多多益善不要太只重視幾個國家不會啦不會然後再來就是既然我們\n\n9\n00:03:00,339 --> 00:03:23,704\n想要推動這種大學的跟國外的交流當然是想要補充國際市場我不知道說陸森為什麼老是被排斥是為什麼沒有啊那是中國排斥不是我們沒有沒有沒有去年侯友宜啊侯友宜做西北市長在選總統的時候啊也有提出說希望有陸森來台就學嘛然後可以留下來工作啊就被民進黨罵爆啦說這些陸森會大量搶台灣的年輕人的工作\n\n10\n00:03:24,324 --> 00:03:41,725\n但我覺得很奇怪,我們教育部不是對於陸生留下來工作有相關的管制嗎?那為什麼這些民進黨立委會提出這樣的質疑呢?然後再來就是我們找那麼多越南、印尼、馬來西亞人來這邊讀書、就業,就不怕他們搶我們年輕人的工作嗎?差別在哪?\n\n11\n00:03:42,694 --> 00:03:43,975\n所以你也很怕說開放陸森來會搶我們年輕人的工作?\n\n12\n00:04:05,013 --> 00:04:28,727\n因為那個三線六部就沒有工作機對嘛那所以那去年民進黨在罵什麼所以你如果說你贊同那些民進黨的看法的話我就很擔心越南印尼馬來西亞人來搶我們臺灣年輕人工作啊那教育部這業務都不用推動嘛所以真的不用太多意識形態啦好再來我問一個問題就是說因為我們韓院長在三月多在出席一個臺英國會的\n\n13\n00:04:31,008 --> 00:04:57,554\n聯誼活動時有提到希望英國一些名校可以來臺灣設分部那他主要是認為所假設英國的名校在臺灣設分部我們周邊的國家其他國家學生也可以來就學可以增加一些國際學生交流的機會部長你知道這事嗎那個跟委員報告如果依照私校法的部分是合作開班嗎不是他是希望能夠設臺灣分校你知道這事嗎\n\n14\n00:04:58,547 --> 00:05:17,763\n你不知道?沒關係啦沒關係啦因為這個部長日理萬機啦也不見得知道院長講過什麼但是有一個人講過你不知道就有點誇張那個賴清德在2017年的時候他也說希望外國名校可以來台設分校而且他還講喔他說來台設分校可以承接我們退場的私校的場地喔這是2017年講的喔\n\n15\n00:05:19,184 --> 00:05:37,287\n然後賴清德準總統在競選總統的時候他也講喔他說真的很非常鼓勵國際的一流學府來台設立分校而且沒有對任何一個國家設限記者問他說那北大復旦來呢他都沒有設限那我現在不是說要針對北大復旦我現在只是想問\n\n16\n00:05:38,328 --> 00:06:02,153\n韓院長講了你說你不知道但是賴清德前行政院長2017年講過然後去年的政見他也主張這件事情那教育部到底有沒有接受這個訊息有沒有著手去推動這個方案跟委員報告現在如果依照私校他們來以私校法的規範他必須遵循這個可能就需要再做一些突破了不是啊那賴清德講話你都沒有在聽這他講的捏\n\n17\n00:06:05,998 --> 00:06:06,919\n這個部分要修施效法謝謝\n\n18\n00:06:30,670 --> 00:06:54,250\n不是你告訴我要怎麼困難我是說你有沒有要做這個事情啊這是賴清德準總統獎你有沒有要做沒有哇塞這個司長很大尾捏居然打臉那個賴清德準總統我覺得不是我故意的找你麻煩我是用那個賴清德講話一個字一個字唸出來的所以你們不曉得這個事情還是賴清德開巴拉票\n\n19\n00:06:57,185 --> 00:07:25,105\n沒有委員這個部分在目前來講後續需要如果是要私校法可以在大會討論啊不是我們在大會討論是你們準總統說要推的東西什麼我們大會討論你們開的證件可以隨便講講面對學生的時候講一套然後現在我們在立法院問的時候就說立法委員你們要推你們自己大會討論這太奇怪了吧然後高校師長說要修私校法變立法委員的事那賴清德以後都什麼事都不用開支票了嘛\n\n20\n00:07:26,025 --> 00:07:46,414\n進選連任的時候也不用講這些有的沒的反正也沒有要落實最後我來問一個問題最近大家非常關心就是行政機關到底可不可以隨便把一些公文或一些文件列密等因為我想請教一下既然高校師長朱師長在現場請教一下我們蔡英文總統的論文深等論文是不是現在是密等\n\n21\n00:07:47,042 --> 00:07:47,202\n請師長回答好不好\n\n22\n00:08:08,485 --> 00:08:29,774\n根本報告目前所有教師資格審查的資料根據什麼法律你不能自己說要列就列嗎臺灣是依法行政還是依你朱司長的命令我們目前是根據我們什麼辦法什麼法律行政機關處理文書的作業請問一下行政機關處理文書守則哪一條說深等論文要列密等\n\n23\n00:08:32,557 --> 00:08:52,475\n請問一下升等論文為什麼是各自我問過非常多的大學教授他說升等論文哪有是密等這種事大家都是根據已經公開的論文或公開的文章拿去升等這些都公開的為什麼只有我們蔡英文總統升等要列為密等密等連線多久\n\n24\n00:08:54,122 --> 00:09:01,375\n論文本身並沒有好啊那你就把他的論文公開啊論文已經公開了不是深等的內容\n\n25\n00:09:02,463 --> 00:09:25,744\n深等論文的內容是公開的是申請的那申請表跟我們教師資格審查的那個過程那個是秘密的所以他的深等論文有公開?公開在哪裡?目前國圖國圖那個是學位論文嘛國圖中政大跟中研大學的圖書館都可以你講的是學位論文還是深等論文?\n\n26\n00:09:26,892 --> 00:09:29,554\n請問一下那個論文是當初蔡英文總統她在英國畢業的時候交給圖書館的還是後來才補交的?\n\n27\n00:09:54,489 --> 00:10:02,638\n我問的問題你就直接回答我那個是他畢業之後拿去的還是後來大家在質疑他沒論文的時候拿去的是哪一個時間點\n\n28\n00:10:04,842 --> 00:10:19,131\n這部份有沒有透過駐英代表跟...你回答我的問題什麼透過駐英代表問你是時間點是哪一個嘛不要在國會殿堂在那邊耍嘴皮子哪一個時間點委員這個部分這部份一點都沒有例外我問師長是哪一個時間點部長不好意思部長我現在的問題是說\n\n29\n00:10:24,574 --> 00:10:30,959\n你們的司長公開講過蔡英文總統的學位論文在英國讀書館看到我現在問你是說是他畢業教過去還是後來遺失被補教的嗎?你回答我這個問題嗎?不是啦我剛剛對你很客氣啦我現在就就事論事了你怎麼那麼急著出來問話呢?\n\n30\n00:10:45,070 --> 00:10:57,921\n當你出來插話的時候我就知道你心虛了啦委員你問得過頭了我當然要說明我問哪裡過頭不是阿他不是英國圖書館的館員阿是師長跟他講師長之前講說他看過嘛我現在問說看過的那一份是之前從醫師後來教的還是畢業之後就教的嘛因為現在大家質疑的是說所有的畢業生通常畢業都要繳論文給圖書館那為什麼蔡總統沒有嘛那今天師長出來講說有阿\n\n31\n00:11:10,512 --> 00:11:10,692\n主席主席\n\n32\n00:11:29,765 --> 00:11:49,794\n誰問你是不是公開的我當然知道他有公開嘛他後來2019年白手套記者會有公開我現在問的是說那本你們看過那本是他畢業教的還是後來白手套公開之後再補過去的嘛這問題很難回答嗎不會難回答為什麼市長可以在不了解狀況情況之下直接出來認證說那個論文是真的\n\n33\n00:11:50,814 --> 00:12:13,684\n那那個是租賓的代表裡面已經確認了他只是轉達這個概念他不是到那所以你們教育部可以隨便喔租賓代表講了一個東西之後然後就沒有查證就隨便出來背書喔教育單位是這樣搞的喔那些都是經過公家單位的確認那你確認你也知道細節啊我現在問你說那本的年限到底是畢業之後繳的還是後來大家發現都找不到之後補的\n\n34\n00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:24,463\n這問題很難回答嗎?因為你們有確認過嘛你們透過數萬單位去確認嘛那你就沒辦法解釋大家的懷疑就不要在那邊背書嘛沒有背書你的答案根本就沒有解除他的懷疑因為大家的懷疑是說為什麼圖書館裡面都沒有他的論文然後後來他也許補了一份補了一份你就說看到了有啊在那個圖書館有啊那你這樣背書有意義嗎?\n\n35\n00:12:49,160 --> 00:13:01,171\n這沒什麼背書這個議題已經討論很久了沒有背書幹嘛出來講外界關心教育部是主管機關當然要說我們得到的是什麼訊息啊不是這樣嗎謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7892\t10314\t今天我們是在討論就是說我們的大學怎麼去國際招生嘛主要是因應少子化甚至於就是說可以招攬一些外籍生然後未來可以輔導他在臺灣就業嘛補充我們勞動市場嘛今天該主題是這個沒錯嘛對不對那我想問一下我們教育部在推動這相關計畫的時候KPI是什麼是以人數當作KPI嗎\n37096\t41539\t跟委員報告,人數只是其中之一。其實我們為什麼到後續在大學的發展體制裡面高教生跟計畫的二期會把國際化作為一個很重要學校去做的是因為有越來越多的國際學生到臺灣來那些的服務措施包含怎麼樣去做才會有好的品質\n59872\t61295\t人數是越多越好還是你人數會有一個總和限制\n68820\t92989\t委員這個年數其實每一個計畫裡面都有一個規範所以是沒有說越多越好所以像現在像產息專班稍微最了解了你會控制在一定的名額以內我們是要嚴格審查計畫對嚴格審查但是是多多益善所以不是在求量如果說有越多很優質的學生願意來我們就盡量開放他是真的來臺灣求學而不是螢幕混珠來打工等等的\n94129\t122298\t如果他是來求學之後去做勞基法所允許的公讀這個到底是甚麼問題?因為我非常很高興聽到你講說會嚴格把關不是以人數濫於充數但我知道說我們教育部補充就是說補助給一些很多新南向的學生非常多的錢但你們實際上有沒有去追蹤他們來之後到底對於臺灣教育甚至於對我們就業市場有多大幫助我不知道到底有沒有做這樣審核\n123178\t149319\t然後再來齁實際上我發現就是我們以我們數據來看好像我們多版新南向國家非常多啦我知道新南向是蔡政府的政績嘛就主要都一直在講新南向但新南向也有很多國家那實際上好像特別重視越南印尼跟馬來西亞光是這三個國家的學生呢就佔了將近六成不知道為什麼其他國家不能不能積極去去招生呢\n149830\t162233\t委員長我們會積極那為什麼那個鼓勵失衡那麼多這是因為他們第一個他們也要有意願來那為什麼只有他們有意願招生本來意願本來就是看你怎麼招嘛\n163631\t178998\t委員我們有一個10個招生基地目前設三個我點出問題啦我們希望說既然你希望透過這個方式國際化國際化當然國家多多益善不要太只重視幾個國家不會啦不會然後再來就是既然我們\n180339\t203704\t想要推動這種大學的跟國外的交流當然是想要補充國際市場我不知道說陸森為什麼老是被排斥是為什麼沒有啊那是中國排斥不是我們沒有沒有沒有去年侯友宜啊侯友宜做西北市長在選總統的時候啊也有提出說希望有陸森來台就學嘛然後可以留下來工作啊就被民進黨罵爆啦說這些陸森會大量搶台灣的年輕人的工作\n204324\t221725\t但我覺得很奇怪,我們教育部不是對於陸生留下來工作有相關的管制嗎?那為什麼這些民進黨立委會提出這樣的質疑呢?然後再來就是我們找那麼多越南、印尼、馬來西亞人來這邊讀書、就業,就不怕他們搶我們年輕人的工作嗎?差別在哪?\n222694\t223975\t所以你也很怕說開放陸森來會搶我們年輕人的工作?\n245013\t268727\t因為那個三線六部就沒有工作機對嘛那所以那去年民進黨在罵什麼所以你如果說你贊同那些民進黨的看法的話我就很擔心越南印尼馬來西亞人來搶我們臺灣年輕人工作啊那教育部這業務都不用推動嘛所以真的不用太多意識形態啦好再來我問一個問題就是說因為我們韓院長在三月多在出席一個臺英國會的\n271008\t297554\t聯誼活動時有提到希望英國一些名校可以來臺灣設分部那他主要是認為所假設英國的名校在臺灣設分部我們周邊的國家其他國家學生也可以來就學可以增加一些國際學生交流的機會部長你知道這事嗎那個跟委員報告如果依照私校法的部分是合作開班嗎不是他是希望能夠設臺灣分校你知道這事嗎\n298547\t317763\t你不知道?沒關係啦沒關係啦因為這個部長日理萬機啦也不見得知道院長講過什麼但是有一個人講過你不知道就有點誇張那個賴清德在2017年的時候他也說希望外國名校可以來台設分校而且他還講喔他說來台設分校可以承接我們退場的私校的場地喔這是2017年講的喔\n319184\t337287\t然後賴清德準總統在競選總統的時候他也講喔他說真的很非常鼓勵國際的一流學府來台設立分校而且沒有對任何一個國家設限記者問他說那北大復旦來呢他都沒有設限那我現在不是說要針對北大復旦我現在只是想問\n338328\t362153\t韓院長講了你說你不知道但是賴清德前行政院長2017年講過然後去年的政見他也主張這件事情那教育部到底有沒有接受這個訊息有沒有著手去推動這個方案跟委員報告現在如果依照私校他們來以私校法的規範他必須遵循這個可能就需要再做一些突破了不是啊那賴清德講話你都沒有在聽這他講的捏\n365998\t366919\t這個部分要修施效法 謝謝\n390670\t414250\t不是你告訴我要怎麼困難我是說你有沒有要做這個事情啊這是賴清德準總統獎你有沒有要做沒有哇塞 這個司長很大尾捏居然打臉那個賴清德準總統我覺得不是我故意的找你麻煩我是用那個賴清德講話一個字一個字唸出來的所以你們不曉得這個事情還是賴清德開巴拉票\n417185\t445105\t沒有委員這個部分在目前來講後續需要如果是要私校法可以在大會討論啊不是我們在大會討論是你們準總統說要推的東西什麼我們大會討論你們開的證件可以隨便講講面對學生的時候講一套然後現在我們在立法院問的時候就說立法委員你們要推你們自己大會討論這太奇怪了吧然後高校師長說要修私校法變立法委員的事那賴清德以後都什麼事都不用開支票了嘛\n446025\t466414\t進選連任的時候也不用講這些有的沒的反正也沒有要落實最後我來問一個問題最近大家非常關心就是行政機關到底可不可以隨便把一些公文或一些文件列密等因為我想請教一下既然高校師長朱師長在現場請教一下我們蔡英文總統的論文深等論文是不是現在是密等\n467042\t467202\t請師長回答好不好\n488485\t509774\t根本報告目前所有教師資格審查的資料根據什麼法律你不能自己說要列就列嗎臺灣是依法行政還是依你朱司長的命令我們目前是根據我們什麼辦法什麼法律行政機關處理文書的作業請問一下行政機關處理文書守則哪一條說深等論文要列密等\n512557\t532475\t請問一下升等論文為什麼是各自我問過非常多的大學教授他說升等論文哪有是密等這種事大家都是根據已經公開的論文或公開的文章拿去升等這些都公開的為什麼只有我們蔡英文總統升等要列為密等密等連線多久\n534122\t541375\t論文本身並沒有好啊 那你就把他的論文公開啊論文已經公開了不是 深等的內容\n542463\t565744\t深等論文的內容是公開的是申請的那申請表跟我們教師資格審查的那個過程那個是秘密的所以他的深等論文有公開?公開在哪裡?目前國圖國圖那個是學位論文嘛國圖中政大跟中研大學的圖書館都可以你講的是學位論文還是深等論文?\n566892\t569554\t請問一下那個論文是當初蔡英文總統她在英國畢業的時候交給圖書館的還是後來才補交的?\n594489\t602638\t我問的問題你就直接回答我那個是他畢業之後拿去的還是後來大家在質疑他沒論文的時候拿去的是哪一個時間點\n604842\t619131\t這部份有沒有透過駐英代表跟...你回答我的問題什麼透過駐英代表問你是時間點是哪一個嘛不要在國會殿堂在那邊耍嘴皮子哪一個時間點委員這個部分這部份一點都沒有例外我問師長是哪一個時間點部長不好意思部長我現在的問題是說\n624574\t630959\t你們的司長公開講過蔡英文總統的學位論文在英國讀書館看到我現在問你是說是他畢業教過去還是後來遺失被補教的嗎?你回答我這個問題嗎?不是啦我剛剛對你很客氣啦我現在就就事論事了你怎麼那麼急著出來問話呢?\n645070\t657921\t當你出來插話的時候我就知道你心虛了啦委員你問得過頭了我當然要說明我問哪裡過頭不是阿他不是英國圖書館的館員阿是師長跟他講師長之前講說他看過嘛我現在問說看過的那一份是之前從醫師後來教的還是畢業之後就教的嘛因為現在大家質疑的是說所有的畢業生通常畢業都要繳論文給圖書館那為什麼蔡總統沒有嘛那今天師長出來講說有阿\n670512\t670692\t主席主席\n689765\t709794\t誰問你是不是公開的我當然知道他有公開嘛他後來2019年白手套記者會有公開我現在問的是說那本你們看過那本是他畢業教的還是後來白手套公開之後再補過去的嘛這問題很難回答嗎不會難回答為什麼市長可以在不了解狀況情況之下直接出來認證說那個論文是真的\n710814\t733684\t那那個是租賓的代表裡面已經確認了他只是轉達這個概念他不是到那所以你們教育部可以隨便喔租賓代表講了一個東西之後然後就沒有查證就隨便出來背書喔教育單位是這樣搞的喔那些都是經過公家單位的確認那你確認你也知道細節啊我現在問你說那本的年限到底是畢業之後繳的還是後來大家發現都找不到之後補的\n738559\t744463\t這問題很難回答嗎?因為你們有確認過嘛你們透過數萬單位去確認嘛那你就沒辦法解釋大家的懷疑就不要在那邊背書嘛沒有背書你的答案根本就沒有解除他的懷疑因為大家的懷疑是說為什麼圖書館裡面都沒有他的論文然後後來他也許補了一份補了一份你就說看到了有啊在那個圖書館有啊那你這樣背書有意義嗎?\n769160\t781171\t這沒什麼背書這個議題已經討論很久了沒有背書幹嘛出來講外界關心教育部是主管機關當然要說我們得到的是什麼訊息啊不是這樣嗎 謝謝\n","txt":"今天我們是在討論就是說我們的大學怎麼去國際招生嘛主要是因應少子化甚至於就是說可以招攬一些外籍生然後未來可以輔導他在臺灣就業嘛補充我們勞動市場嘛今天該主題是這個沒錯嘛對不對那我想問一下我們教育部在推動這相關計畫的時候KPI是什麼是以人數當作KPI嗎\n跟委員報告,人數只是其中之一。其實我們為什麼到後續在大學的發展體制裡面高教生跟計畫的二期會把國際化作為一個很重要學校去做的是因為有越來越多的國際學生到臺灣來那些的服務措施包含怎麼樣去做才會有好的品質\n人數是越多越好還是你人數會有一個總和限制\n委員這個年數其實每一個計畫裡面都有一個規範所以是沒有說越多越好所以像現在像產息專班稍微最了解了你會控制在一定的名額以內我們是要嚴格審查計畫對嚴格審查但是是多多益善所以不是在求量如果說有越多很優質的學生願意來我們就盡量開放他是真的來臺灣求學而不是螢幕混珠來打工等等的\n如果他是來求學之後去做勞基法所允許的公讀這個到底是甚麼問題?因為我非常很高興聽到你講說會嚴格把關不是以人數濫於充數但我知道說我們教育部補充就是說補助給一些很多新南向的學生非常多的錢但你們實際上有沒有去追蹤他們來之後到底對於臺灣教育甚至於對我們就業市場有多大幫助我不知道到底有沒有做這樣審核\n然後再來齁實際上我發現就是我們以我們數據來看好像我們多版新南向國家非常多啦我知道新南向是蔡政府的政績嘛就主要都一直在講新南向但新南向也有很多國家那實際上好像特別重視越南印尼跟馬來西亞光是這三個國家的學生呢就佔了將近六成不知道為什麼其他國家不能不能積極去去招生呢\n委員長我們會積極那為什麼那個鼓勵失衡那麼多這是因為他們第一個他們也要有意願來那為什麼只有他們有意願招生本來意願本來就是看你怎麼招嘛\n委員我們有一個10個招生基地目前設三個我點出問題啦我們希望說既然你希望透過這個方式國際化國際化當然國家多多益善不要太只重視幾個國家不會啦不會然後再來就是既然我們\n想要推動這種大學的跟國外的交流當然是想要補充國際市場我不知道說陸森為什麼老是被排斥是為什麼沒有啊那是中國排斥不是我們沒有沒有沒有去年侯友宜啊侯友宜做西北市長在選總統的時候啊也有提出說希望有陸森來台就學嘛然後可以留下來工作啊就被民進黨罵爆啦說這些陸森會大量搶台灣的年輕人的工作\n但我覺得很奇怪,我們教育部不是對於陸生留下來工作有相關的管制嗎?那為什麼這些民進黨立委會提出這樣的質疑呢?然後再來就是我們找那麼多越南、印尼、馬來西亞人來這邊讀書、就業,就不怕他們搶我們年輕人的工作嗎?差別在哪?\n所以你也很怕說開放陸森來會搶我們年輕人的工作?\n因為那個三線六部就沒有工作機對嘛那所以那去年民進黨在罵什麼所以你如果說你贊同那些民進黨的看法的話我就很擔心越南印尼馬來西亞人來搶我們臺灣年輕人工作啊那教育部這業務都不用推動嘛所以真的不用太多意識形態啦好再來我問一個問題就是說因為我們韓院長在三月多在出席一個臺英國會的\n聯誼活動時有提到希望英國一些名校可以來臺灣設分部那他主要是認為所假設英國的名校在臺灣設分部我們周邊的國家其他國家學生也可以來就學可以增加一些國際學生交流的機會部長你知道這事嗎那個跟委員報告如果依照私校法的部分是合作開班嗎不是他是希望能夠設臺灣分校你知道這事嗎\n你不知道?沒關係啦沒關係啦因為這個部長日理萬機啦也不見得知道院長講過什麼但是有一個人講過你不知道就有點誇張那個賴清德在2017年的時候他也說希望外國名校可以來台設分校而且他還講喔他說來台設分校可以承接我們退場的私校的場地喔這是2017年講的喔\n然後賴清德準總統在競選總統的時候他也講喔他說真的很非常鼓勵國際的一流學府來台設立分校而且沒有對任何一個國家設限記者問他說那北大復旦來呢他都沒有設限那我現在不是說要針對北大復旦我現在只是想問\n韓院長講了你說你不知道但是賴清德前行政院長2017年講過然後去年的政見他也主張這件事情那教育部到底有沒有接受這個訊息有沒有著手去推動這個方案跟委員報告現在如果依照私校他們來以私校法的規範他必須遵循這個可能就需要再做一些突破了不是啊那賴清德講話你都沒有在聽這他講的捏\n這個部分要修施效法 謝謝\n不是你告訴我要怎麼困難我是說你有沒有要做這個事情啊這是賴清德準總統獎你有沒有要做沒有哇塞 這個司長很大尾捏居然打臉那個賴清德準總統我覺得不是我故意的找你麻煩我是用那個賴清德講話一個字一個字唸出來的所以你們不曉得這個事情還是賴清德開巴拉票\n沒有委員這個部分在目前來講後續需要如果是要私校法可以在大會討論啊不是我們在大會討論是你們準總統說要推的東西什麼我們大會討論你們開的證件可以隨便講講面對學生的時候講一套然後現在我們在立法院問的時候就說立法委員你們要推你們自己大會討論這太奇怪了吧然後高校師長說要修私校法變立法委員的事那賴清德以後都什麼事都不用開支票了嘛\n進選連任的時候也不用講這些有的沒的反正也沒有要落實最後我來問一個問題最近大家非常關心就是行政機關到底可不可以隨便把一些公文或一些文件列密等因為我想請教一下既然高校師長朱師長在現場請教一下我們蔡英文總統的論文深等論文是不是現在是密等\n請師長回答好不好\n根本報告目前所有教師資格審查的資料根據什麼法律你不能自己說要列就列嗎臺灣是依法行政還是依你朱司長的命令我們目前是根據我們什麼辦法什麼法律行政機關處理文書的作業請問一下行政機關處理文書守則哪一條說深等論文要列密等\n請問一下升等論文為什麼是各自我問過非常多的大學教授他說升等論文哪有是密等這種事大家都是根據已經公開的論文或公開的文章拿去升等這些都公開的為什麼只有我們蔡英文總統升等要列為密等密等連線多久\n論文本身並沒有好啊 那你就把他的論文公開啊論文已經公開了不是 深等的內容\n深等論文的內容是公開的是申請的那申請表跟我們教師資格審查的那個過程那個是秘密的所以他的深等論文有公開?公開在哪裡?目前國圖國圖那個是學位論文嘛國圖中政大跟中研大學的圖書館都可以你講的是學位論文還是深等論文?\n請問一下那個論文是當初蔡英文總統她在英國畢業的時候交給圖書館的還是後來才補交的?\n我問的問題你就直接回答我那個是他畢業之後拿去的還是後來大家在質疑他沒論文的時候拿去的是哪一個時間點\n這部份有沒有透過駐英代表跟...你回答我的問題什麼透過駐英代表問你是時間點是哪一個嘛不要在國會殿堂在那邊耍嘴皮子哪一個時間點委員這個部分這部份一點都沒有例外我問師長是哪一個時間點部長不好意思部長我現在的問題是說\n你們的司長公開講過蔡英文總統的學位論文在英國讀書館看到我現在問你是說是他畢業教過去還是後來遺失被補教的嗎?你回答我這個問題嗎?不是啦我剛剛對你很客氣啦我現在就就事論事了你怎麼那麼急著出來問話呢?\n當你出來插話的時候我就知道你心虛了啦委員你問得過頭了我當然要說明我問哪裡過頭不是阿他不是英國圖書館的館員阿是師長跟他講師長之前講說他看過嘛我現在問說看過的那一份是之前從醫師後來教的還是畢業之後就教的嘛因為現在大家質疑的是說所有的畢業生通常畢業都要繳論文給圖書館那為什麼蔡總統沒有嘛那今天師長出來講說有阿\n主席主席\n誰問你是不是公開的我當然知道他有公開嘛他後來2019年白手套記者會有公開我現在問的是說那本你們看過那本是他畢業教的還是後來白手套公開之後再補過去的嘛這問題很難回答嗎不會難回答為什麼市長可以在不了解狀況情況之下直接出來認證說那個論文是真的\n那那個是租賓的代表裡面已經確認了他只是轉達這個概念他不是到那所以你們教育部可以隨便喔租賓代表講了一個東西之後然後就沒有查證就隨便出來背書喔教育單位是這樣搞的喔那些都是經過公家單位的確認那你確認你也知道細節啊我現在問你說那本的年限到底是畢業之後繳的還是後來大家發現都找不到之後補的\n這問題很難回答嗎?因為你們有確認過嘛你們透過數萬單位去確認嘛那你就沒辦法解釋大家的懷疑就不要在那邊背書嘛沒有背書你的答案根本就沒有解除他的懷疑因為大家的懷疑是說為什麼圖書館裡面都沒有他的論文然後後來他也許補了一份補了一份你就說看到了有啊在那個圖書館有啊那你這樣背書有意義嗎?\n這沒什麼背書這個議題已經討論很久了沒有背書幹嘛出來講外界關心教育部是主管機關當然要說我們得到的是什麼訊息啊不是這樣嗎 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.892 --> 00:10.314\n今天我們是在討論就是說我們的大學怎麼去國際招生嘛主要是因應少子化甚至於就是說可以招攬一些外籍生然後未來可以輔導他在臺灣就業嘛補充我們勞動市場嘛今天該主題是這個沒錯嘛對不對那我想問一下我們教育部在推動這相關計畫的時候KPI是什麼是以人數當作KPI嗎\n\n00:37.096 --> 00:41.539\n跟委員報告,人數只是其中之一。其實我們為什麼到後續在大學的發展體制裡面高教生跟計畫的二期會把國際化作為一個很重要學校去做的是因為有越來越多的國際學生到臺灣來那些的服務措施包含怎麼樣去做才會有好的品質\n\n00:59.872 --> 01:01.295\n人數是越多越好還是你人數會有一個總和限制\n\n01:08.820 --> 01:32.989\n委員這個年數其實每一個計畫裡面都有一個規範所以是沒有說越多越好所以像現在像產息專班稍微最了解了你會控制在一定的名額以內我們是要嚴格審查計畫對嚴格審查但是是多多益善所以不是在求量如果說有越多很優質的學生願意來我們就盡量開放他是真的來臺灣求學而不是螢幕混珠來打工等等的\n\n01:34.129 --> 02:02.298\n如果他是來求學之後去做勞基法所允許的公讀這個到底是甚麼問題?因為我非常很高興聽到你講說會嚴格把關不是以人數濫於充數但我知道說我們教育部補充就是說補助給一些很多新南向的學生非常多的錢但你們實際上有沒有去追蹤他們來之後到底對於臺灣教育甚至於對我們就業市場有多大幫助我不知道到底有沒有做這樣審核\n\n02:03.178 --> 02:29.319\n然後再來齁實際上我發現就是我們以我們數據來看好像我們多版新南向國家非常多啦我知道新南向是蔡政府的政績嘛就主要都一直在講新南向但新南向也有很多國家那實際上好像特別重視越南印尼跟馬來西亞光是這三個國家的學生呢就佔了將近六成不知道為什麼其他國家不能不能積極去去招生呢\n\n02:29.830 --> 02:42.233\n委員長我們會積極那為什麼那個鼓勵失衡那麼多這是因為他們第一個他們也要有意願來那為什麼只有他們有意願招生本來意願本來就是看你怎麼招嘛\n\n02:43.631 --> 02:58.998\n委員我們有一個10個招生基地目前設三個我點出問題啦我們希望說既然你希望透過這個方式國際化國際化當然國家多多益善不要太只重視幾個國家不會啦不會然後再來就是既然我們\n\n03:00.339 --> 03:23.704\n想要推動這種大學的跟國外的交流當然是想要補充國際市場我不知道說陸森為什麼老是被排斥是為什麼沒有啊那是中國排斥不是我們沒有沒有沒有去年侯友宜啊侯友宜做西北市長在選總統的時候啊也有提出說希望有陸森來台就學嘛然後可以留下來工作啊就被民進黨罵爆啦說這些陸森會大量搶台灣的年輕人的工作\n\n03:24.324 --> 03:41.725\n但我覺得很奇怪,我們教育部不是對於陸生留下來工作有相關的管制嗎?那為什麼這些民進黨立委會提出這樣的質疑呢?然後再來就是我們找那麼多越南、印尼、馬來西亞人來這邊讀書、就業,就不怕他們搶我們年輕人的工作嗎?差別在哪?\n\n03:42.694 --> 03:43.975\n所以你也很怕說開放陸森來會搶我們年輕人的工作?\n\n04:05.013 --> 04:28.727\n因為那個三線六部就沒有工作機對嘛那所以那去年民進黨在罵什麼所以你如果說你贊同那些民進黨的看法的話我就很擔心越南印尼馬來西亞人來搶我們臺灣年輕人工作啊那教育部這業務都不用推動嘛所以真的不用太多意識形態啦好再來我問一個問題就是說因為我們韓院長在三月多在出席一個臺英國會的\n\n04:31.008 --> 04:57.554\n聯誼活動時有提到希望英國一些名校可以來臺灣設分部那他主要是認為所假設英國的名校在臺灣設分部我們周邊的國家其他國家學生也可以來就學可以增加一些國際學生交流的機會部長你知道這事嗎那個跟委員報告如果依照私校法的部分是合作開班嗎不是他是希望能夠設臺灣分校你知道這事嗎\n\n04:58.547 --> 05:17.763\n你不知道?沒關係啦沒關係啦因為這個部長日理萬機啦也不見得知道院長講過什麼但是有一個人講過你不知道就有點誇張那個賴清德在2017年的時候他也說希望外國名校可以來台設分校而且他還講喔他說來台設分校可以承接我們退場的私校的場地喔這是2017年講的喔\n\n05:19.184 --> 05:37.287\n然後賴清德準總統在競選總統的時候他也講喔他說真的很非常鼓勵國際的一流學府來台設立分校而且沒有對任何一個國家設限記者問他說那北大復旦來呢他都沒有設限那我現在不是說要針對北大復旦我現在只是想問\n\n05:38.328 --> 06:02.153\n韓院長講了你說你不知道但是賴清德前行政院長2017年講過然後去年的政見他也主張這件事情那教育部到底有沒有接受這個訊息有沒有著手去推動這個方案跟委員報告現在如果依照私校他們來以私校法的規範他必須遵循這個可能就需要再做一些突破了不是啊那賴清德講話你都沒有在聽這他講的捏\n\n06:05.998 --> 06:06.919\n這個部分要修施效法謝謝\n\n06:30.670 --> 06:54.250\n不是你告訴我要怎麼困難我是說你有沒有要做這個事情啊這是賴清德準總統獎你有沒有要做沒有哇塞這個司長很大尾捏居然打臉那個賴清德準總統我覺得不是我故意的找你麻煩我是用那個賴清德講話一個字一個字唸出來的所以你們不曉得這個事情還是賴清德開巴拉票\n\n06:57.185 --> 07:25.105\n沒有委員這個部分在目前來講後續需要如果是要私校法可以在大會討論啊不是我們在大會討論是你們準總統說要推的東西什麼我們大會討論你們開的證件可以隨便講講面對學生的時候講一套然後現在我們在立法院問的時候就說立法委員你們要推你們自己大會討論這太奇怪了吧然後高校師長說要修私校法變立法委員的事那賴清德以後都什麼事都不用開支票了嘛\n\n07:26.025 --> 07:46.414\n進選連任的時候也不用講這些有的沒的反正也沒有要落實最後我來問一個問題最近大家非常關心就是行政機關到底可不可以隨便把一些公文或一些文件列密等因為我想請教一下既然高校師長朱師長在現場請教一下我們蔡英文總統的論文深等論文是不是現在是密等\n\n07:47.042 --> 07:47.202\n請師長回答好不好\n\n08:08.485 --> 08:29.774\n根本報告目前所有教師資格審查的資料根據什麼法律你不能自己說要列就列嗎臺灣是依法行政還是依你朱司長的命令我們目前是根據我們什麼辦法什麼法律行政機關處理文書的作業請問一下行政機關處理文書守則哪一條說深等論文要列密等\n\n08:32.557 --> 08:52.475\n請問一下升等論文為什麼是各自我問過非常多的大學教授他說升等論文哪有是密等這種事大家都是根據已經公開的論文或公開的文章拿去升等這些都公開的為什麼只有我們蔡英文總統升等要列為密等密等連線多久\n\n08:54.122 --> 09:01.375\n論文本身並沒有好啊那你就把他的論文公開啊論文已經公開了不是深等的內容\n\n09:02.463 --> 09:25.744\n深等論文的內容是公開的是申請的那申請表跟我們教師資格審查的那個過程那個是秘密的所以他的深等論文有公開?公開在哪裡?目前國圖國圖那個是學位論文嘛國圖中政大跟中研大學的圖書館都可以你講的是學位論文還是深等論文?\n\n09:26.892 --> 09:29.554\n請問一下那個論文是當初蔡英文總統她在英國畢業的時候交給圖書館的還是後來才補交的?\n\n09:54.489 --> 10:02.638\n我問的問題你就直接回答我那個是他畢業之後拿去的還是後來大家在質疑他沒論文的時候拿去的是哪一個時間點\n\n10:04.842 --> 10:19.131\n這部份有沒有透過駐英代表跟...你回答我的問題什麼透過駐英代表問你是時間點是哪一個嘛不要在國會殿堂在那邊耍嘴皮子哪一個時間點委員這個部分這部份一點都沒有例外我問師長是哪一個時間點部長不好意思部長我現在的問題是說\n\n10:24.574 --> 10:30.959\n你們的司長公開講過蔡英文總統的學位論文在英國讀書館看到我現在問你是說是他畢業教過去還是後來遺失被補教的嗎?你回答我這個問題嗎?不是啦我剛剛對你很客氣啦我現在就就事論事了你怎麼那麼急著出來問話呢?\n\n10:45.070 --> 10:57.921\n當你出來插話的時候我就知道你心虛了啦委員你問得過頭了我當然要說明我問哪裡過頭不是阿他不是英國圖書館的館員阿是師長跟他講師長之前講說他看過嘛我現在問說看過的那一份是之前從醫師後來教的還是畢業之後就教的嘛因為現在大家質疑的是說所有的畢業生通常畢業都要繳論文給圖書館那為什麼蔡總統沒有嘛那今天師長出來講說有阿\n\n11:10.512 --> 11:10.692\n主席主席\n\n11:29.765 --> 11:49.794\n誰問你是不是公開的我當然知道他有公開嘛他後來2019年白手套記者會有公開我現在問的是說那本你們看過那本是他畢業教的還是後來白手套公開之後再補過去的嘛這問題很難回答嗎不會難回答為什麼市長可以在不了解狀況情況之下直接出來認證說那個論文是真的\n\n11:50.814 --> 12:13.684\n那那個是租賓的代表裡面已經確認了他只是轉達這個概念他不是到那所以你們教育部可以隨便喔租賓代表講了一個東西之後然後就沒有查證就隨便出來背書喔教育單位是這樣搞的喔那些都是經過公家單位的確認那你確認你也知道細節啊我現在問你說那本的年限到底是畢業之後繳的還是後來大家發現都找不到之後補的\n\n12:18.559 --> 12:24.463\n這問題很難回答嗎?因為你們有確認過嘛你們透過數萬單位去確認嘛那你就沒辦法解釋大家的懷疑就不要在那邊背書嘛沒有背書你的答案根本就沒有解除他的懷疑因為大家的懷疑是說為什麼圖書館裡面都沒有他的論文然後後來他也許補了一份補了一份你就說看到了有啊在那個圖書館有啊那你這樣背書有意義嗎?\n\n12:49.160 --> 13:01.171\n這沒什麼背書這個議題已經討論很久了沒有背書幹嘛出來講外界關心教育部是主管機關當然要說我們得到的是什麼訊息啊不是這樣嗎謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.892,"end":10.314,"text":"今天我們是在討論就是說我們的大學怎麼去國際招生嘛主要是因應少子化甚至於就是說可以招攬一些外籍生然後未來可以輔導他在臺灣就業嘛補充我們勞動市場嘛今天該主題是這個沒錯嘛對不對那我想問一下我們教育部在推動這相關計畫的時候KPI是什麼是以人數當作KPI嗎"},{"start":37.096,"end":41.539,"text":"跟委員報告,人數只是其中之一。其實我們為什麼到後續在大學的發展體制裡面高教生跟計畫的二期會把國際化作為一個很重要學校去做的是因為有越來越多的國際學生到臺灣來那些的服務措施包含怎麼樣去做才會有好的品質"},{"start":59.872,"end":61.295,"text":"人數是越多越好還是你人數會有一個總和限制"},{"start":68.82,"end":92.989,"text":"委員這個年數其實每一個計畫裡面都有一個規範所以是沒有說越多越好所以像現在像產息專班稍微最了解了你會控制在一定的名額以內我們是要嚴格審查計畫對嚴格審查但是是多多益善所以不是在求量如果說有越多很優質的學生願意來我們就盡量開放他是真的來臺灣求學而不是螢幕混珠來打工等等的"},{"start":94.129,"end":122.298,"text":"如果他是來求學之後去做勞基法所允許的公讀這個到底是甚麼問題?因為我非常很高興聽到你講說會嚴格把關不是以人數濫於充數但我知道說我們教育部補充就是說補助給一些很多新南向的學生非常多的錢但你們實際上有沒有去追蹤他們來之後到底對於臺灣教育甚至於對我們就業市場有多大幫助我不知道到底有沒有做這樣審核"},{"start":123.178,"end":149.319,"text":"然後再來齁實際上我發現就是我們以我們數據來看好像我們多版新南向國家非常多啦我知道新南向是蔡政府的政績嘛就主要都一直在講新南向但新南向也有很多國家那實際上好像特別重視越南印尼跟馬來西亞光是這三個國家的學生呢就佔了將近六成不知道為什麼其他國家不能不能積極去去招生呢"},{"start":149.83,"end":162.233,"text":"委員長我們會積極那為什麼那個鼓勵失衡那麼多這是因為他們第一個他們也要有意願來那為什麼只有他們有意願招生本來意願本來就是看你怎麼招嘛"},{"start":163.631,"end":178.998,"text":"委員我們有一個10個招生基地目前設三個我點出問題啦我們希望說既然你希望透過這個方式國際化國際化當然國家多多益善不要太只重視幾個國家不會啦不會然後再來就是既然我們"},{"start":180.339,"end":203.704,"text":"想要推動這種大學的跟國外的交流當然是想要補充國際市場我不知道說陸森為什麼老是被排斥是為什麼沒有啊那是中國排斥不是我們沒有沒有沒有去年侯友宜啊侯友宜做西北市長在選總統的時候啊也有提出說希望有陸森來台就學嘛然後可以留下來工作啊就被民進黨罵爆啦說這些陸森會大量搶台灣的年輕人的工作"},{"start":204.324,"end":221.725,"text":"但我覺得很奇怪,我們教育部不是對於陸生留下來工作有相關的管制嗎?那為什麼這些民進黨立委會提出這樣的質疑呢?然後再來就是我們找那麼多越南、印尼、馬來西亞人來這邊讀書、就業,就不怕他們搶我們年輕人的工作嗎?差別在哪?"},{"start":222.694,"end":223.975,"text":"所以你也很怕說開放陸森來會搶我們年輕人的工作?"},{"start":245.013,"end":268.727,"text":"因為那個三線六部就沒有工作機對嘛那所以那去年民進黨在罵什麼所以你如果說你贊同那些民進黨的看法的話我就很擔心越南印尼馬來西亞人來搶我們臺灣年輕人工作啊那教育部這業務都不用推動嘛所以真的不用太多意識形態啦好再來我問一個問題就是說因為我們韓院長在三月多在出席一個臺英國會的"},{"start":271.008,"end":297.554,"text":"聯誼活動時有提到希望英國一些名校可以來臺灣設分部那他主要是認為所假設英國的名校在臺灣設分部我們周邊的國家其他國家學生也可以來就學可以增加一些國際學生交流的機會部長你知道這事嗎那個跟委員報告如果依照私校法的部分是合作開班嗎不是他是希望能夠設臺灣分校你知道這事嗎"},{"start":298.547,"end":317.763,"text":"你不知道?沒關係啦沒關係啦因為這個部長日理萬機啦也不見得知道院長講過什麼但是有一個人講過你不知道就有點誇張那個賴清德在2017年的時候他也說希望外國名校可以來台設分校而且他還講喔他說來台設分校可以承接我們退場的私校的場地喔這是2017年講的喔"},{"start":319.184,"end":337.287,"text":"然後賴清德準總統在競選總統的時候他也講喔他說真的很非常鼓勵國際的一流學府來台設立分校而且沒有對任何一個國家設限記者問他說那北大復旦來呢他都沒有設限那我現在不是說要針對北大復旦我現在只是想問"},{"start":338.328,"end":362.153,"text":"韓院長講了你說你不知道但是賴清德前行政院長2017年講過然後去年的政見他也主張這件事情那教育部到底有沒有接受這個訊息有沒有著手去推動這個方案跟委員報告現在如果依照私校他們來以私校法的規範他必須遵循這個可能就需要再做一些突破了不是啊那賴清德講話你都沒有在聽這他講的捏"},{"start":365.998,"end":366.919,"text":"這個部分要修施效法 謝謝"},{"start":390.67,"end":414.25,"text":"不是你告訴我要怎麼困難我是說你有沒有要做這個事情啊這是賴清德準總統獎你有沒有要做沒有哇塞 這個司長很大尾捏居然打臉那個賴清德準總統我覺得不是我故意的找你麻煩我是用那個賴清德講話一個字一個字唸出來的所以你們不曉得這個事情還是賴清德開巴拉票"},{"start":417.185,"end":445.105,"text":"沒有委員這個部分在目前來講後續需要如果是要私校法可以在大會討論啊不是我們在大會討論是你們準總統說要推的東西什麼我們大會討論你們開的證件可以隨便講講面對學生的時候講一套然後現在我們在立法院問的時候就說立法委員你們要推你們自己大會討論這太奇怪了吧然後高校師長說要修私校法變立法委員的事那賴清德以後都什麼事都不用開支票了嘛"},{"start":446.025,"end":466.414,"text":"進選連任的時候也不用講這些有的沒的反正也沒有要落實最後我來問一個問題最近大家非常關心就是行政機關到底可不可以隨便把一些公文或一些文件列密等因為我想請教一下既然高校師長朱師長在現場請教一下我們蔡英文總統的論文深等論文是不是現在是密等"},{"start":467.042,"end":467.202,"text":"請師長回答好不好"},{"start":488.485,"end":509.774,"text":"根本報告目前所有教師資格審查的資料根據什麼法律你不能自己說要列就列嗎臺灣是依法行政還是依你朱司長的命令我們目前是根據我們什麼辦法什麼法律行政機關處理文書的作業請問一下行政機關處理文書守則哪一條說深等論文要列密等"},{"start":512.557,"end":532.475,"text":"請問一下升等論文為什麼是各自我問過非常多的大學教授他說升等論文哪有是密等這種事大家都是根據已經公開的論文或公開的文章拿去升等這些都公開的為什麼只有我們蔡英文總統升等要列為密等密等連線多久"},{"start":534.122,"end":541.375,"text":"論文本身並沒有好啊 那你就把他的論文公開啊論文已經公開了不是 深等的內容"},{"start":542.463,"end":565.744,"text":"深等論文的內容是公開的是申請的那申請表跟我們教師資格審查的那個過程那個是秘密的所以他的深等論文有公開?公開在哪裡?目前國圖國圖那個是學位論文嘛國圖中政大跟中研大學的圖書館都可以你講的是學位論文還是深等論文?"},{"start":566.892,"end":569.554,"text":"請問一下那個論文是當初蔡英文總統她在英國畢業的時候交給圖書館的還是後來才補交的?"},{"start":594.489,"end":602.638,"text":"我問的問題你就直接回答我那個是他畢業之後拿去的還是後來大家在質疑他沒論文的時候拿去的是哪一個時間點"},{"start":604.842,"end":619.131,"text":"這部份有沒有透過駐英代表跟...你回答我的問題什麼透過駐英代表問你是時間點是哪一個嘛不要在國會殿堂在那邊耍嘴皮子哪一個時間點委員這個部分這部份一點都沒有例外我問師長是哪一個時間點部長不好意思部長我現在的問題是說"},{"start":624.574,"end":630.959,"text":"你們的司長公開講過蔡英文總統的學位論文在英國讀書館看到我現在問你是說是他畢業教過去還是後來遺失被補教的嗎?你回答我這個問題嗎?不是啦我剛剛對你很客氣啦我現在就就事論事了你怎麼那麼急著出來問話呢?"},{"start":645.07,"end":657.921,"text":"當你出來插話的時候我就知道你心虛了啦委員你問得過頭了我當然要說明我問哪裡過頭不是阿他不是英國圖書館的館員阿是師長跟他講師長之前講說他看過嘛我現在問說看過的那一份是之前從醫師後來教的還是畢業之後就教的嘛因為現在大家質疑的是說所有的畢業生通常畢業都要繳論文給圖書館那為什麼蔡總統沒有嘛那今天師長出來講說有阿"},{"start":670.512,"end":670.692,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":689.765,"end":709.794,"text":"誰問你是不是公開的我當然知道他有公開嘛他後來2019年白手套記者會有公開我現在問的是說那本你們看過那本是他畢業教的還是後來白手套公開之後再補過去的嘛這問題很難回答嗎不會難回答為什麼市長可以在不了解狀況情況之下直接出來認證說那個論文是真的"},{"start":710.814,"end":733.684,"text":"那那個是租賓的代表裡面已經確認了他只是轉達這個概念他不是到那所以你們教育部可以隨便喔租賓代表講了一個東西之後然後就沒有查證就隨便出來背書喔教育單位是這樣搞的喔那些都是經過公家單位的確認那你確認你也知道細節啊我現在問你說那本的年限到底是畢業之後繳的還是後來大家發現都找不到之後補的"},{"start":738.559,"end":744.463,"text":"這問題很難回答嗎?因為你們有確認過嘛你們透過數萬單位去確認嘛那你就沒辦法解釋大家的懷疑就不要在那邊背書嘛沒有背書你的答案根本就沒有解除他的懷疑因為大家的懷疑是說為什麼圖書館裡面都沒有他的論文然後後來他也許補了一份補了一份你就說看到了有啊在那個圖書館有啊那你這樣背書有意義嗎?"},{"start":769.16,"end":781.171,"text":"這沒什麼背書這個議題已經討論很久了沒有背書幹嘛出來講外界關心教育部是主管機關當然要說我們得到的是什麼訊息啊不是這樣嗎 謝謝"}]}}}}