{"id":152428,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152428","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d7e25ee5d31e1734b5b05c0703ae9c70ba70ea388d46c21f2d94006c6d412c4d53d5a73745c472315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"10:29:33 - 10:43:47","影片長度":"00:14:14","會議時間":"2024-05-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「大學推動國際招生及臺灣優華語計畫之執行成效及檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-13","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-12"},"duration":854,"end_time":"2024-05-13T10:43:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-13T10:29:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":415,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（10時29分）謝謝主席，我講慢一點，讓部長喘口氣。感謝主席，有請教育部潘文忠部長。"],["主席：我們請潘部長。"],["潘部長文忠：葛委員好。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝。部長您好，我想還是要非常肯定您8年來對於教育政策推行所做的各種努力。"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝委員。"],["葛委員如鈞：今天機會很難得，也謝謝您還是來到這邊跟我們進行互動，今天的題目是大學國際招生跟優華語計畫，優華語計畫其實從110年以後就開始推動，但是本席辦公室請教育部提供優華語分年的執行成效，我們卻沒有辦法拿到，我們只能拿到112年度的成果。我們從今天的書面報告當中也可以看到，112年度的成果當中只提到了設置4所海外教學中心、建立校際合作、選送人員海外任教、補助外國學生來臺學習華語等等。在這邊我必須要說，完全沒有提到任何數位教學或是數位學習系統及平臺的建置，我們真的是活在2024年嗎？現在是民國113年，我們與各大學的華語推廣活動竟然還限於實體的交流，我們好像回到明朝時代的鄭和下西洋，不上船就沒有辦法跟人家交流，我們居然捨棄了全球42億的人口，隨時可以上網學華語的行動上網用戶，去年花了1.4億去設置這些實體的互動，優華語真的是要變成「憂」華語，憂心的憂。我想請教一下部長，優華語計畫有沒有運用數位工具來推廣華語教學？如果有，可不可以稍微說明一下情況跟成效？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，優華語計畫是繼過去的華語教育推動當中再去提，事實上它也有一定的基礎，在這個階段著力比較深的是優華語計畫……"],["葛委員如鈞：對不起，部長，我必須打斷你，是比較多還是全部？到底有沒有數位？"],["潘部長文忠：目前是提供數位課程。"],["葛委員如鈞：有數位課程嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：有，有數位課程。"],["葛委員如鈞：有在報告裡面嗎？我們好像都沒有看到喔！"],["潘部長文忠：那報告是不是……有數位課程啊。"],["葛委員如鈞：我想我們非常重視虛實的整合。"],["潘部長文忠：是。"],["葛委員如鈞：尤其在疫情之後，現在世界衛生組織還說未來可能還有新的傳染病，當然我們都不希望有，它的代號叫X疾病，所以境外學生的人數會隨著疫情浮動，但是我們現在已經進入數位的時代，真的很難想像我們的全球推廣計畫沒有更多！那你說有，我就相信你說有，雖然我們在報告裡面沒看到，真的沒看到！說有就有，但沒有更多人來使用，我們覺得這是需要檢討，希望部長回去以後跟同仁一起，用最後非常、非常寶貴的時間重新檢視優華語的計畫內容，做一些合適的資源配置。","接下來，不只華語，我們還要請教您關於雙語教育的問題，107年12月當時準總統賴清德先生時任行政院長，發表了以2030年為目標打造臺灣成為雙語國家的願景，要求全面啟動這樣的計畫，想請教一下部長，賴準總統所謂的雙語國家政策，指的是哪雙語？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，這個計畫的名稱後來有再做一些調整，不是用雙語國家，是國家雙語政策。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以這個新聞應該要下架、要改，是不是？"],["潘部長文忠：不！我不知道這個……這個可能是新聞，目前是國家雙語政策，因為這個確實有一個討論後所定出來的。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，沒有關係，當時的行政院長接下來變總統，希望所有的政策喊出來都是有憑有據，不要改來改去。我們來看，實際上有很多打臉的現象我們就不多說了。其實雙語指的是華語或英語，這一種說法是完全於法無據的，事實上我們完全沒有在法律中明定所謂的官方語言，依據國家語言發展法，我們的語言指的是臺灣固有族群使用的自然語言及臺灣手語，而且要做多語言之間的平衡、做一個多元的平衡。今天政府採取這樣的說法，說要雙語啊、要英語啊！難保會不會未來又有新的院長一聲令下，我們的雙語或多語政策又要換一個名字、又要360度大轉彎！","我們來看一下，我們先不管！既然已經執行了，從107年宣布執行到現在6、7年，我們為了達成雙語國家目標已經投入多少錢？我覺得這真的不只是指數成長，這是十倍、百倍的增長，從幾千萬到幾十億！我們已經投入100億，我們來看看現場的反應如何？根據親子天下雜誌，全臺有高達四成的公立國中小尚未實施雙語課程；22個縣市當中有八成縣市認為本國師資不足，31%的縣市認為中央經費補助不足；22%的人說第一線教師反對這個政策。當時賴清德院長的一句話，讓教育部6年狠砸超過百億來推行雙語政策，但是我們來看，再看喔！我們的全球英語能力指標只是略高於全球平均，但是在111個國家及地區當中屬於中間偏後。我們再看，這是你們的報告喔！2030雙語政策計畫是教育部推出的，關於可量化的經濟效益，我那時候就擦亮眼睛說我是不是看錯了？創造工作機會0，帶動公、民營企業投資0！這還不是全部，不只英語成績不見起色，根據去年公布2021臺灣參加第四屆國際閱讀素養調查，首度出現小四學生中文閱讀能力下滑的現象，這個真的是我們要看到的嗎？我們再來看，晶晶語現在已經變成交作業的常見狀況了。再來還有，過去9年的國中會考，每年都有近3,000到7,000名考生放棄寫國語的作文，考0分的人數遠遠超過滿級分的人數！","我這樣講完，其實還有啦，但我就不多說。我們花了6年一百多億喔，結果師資不足、經費不足、第一線教師反對；學生不僅英文能力不好、中文能力也下降；最糟糕的是，經濟效益是0！前兩天賴準總統甚至直指雙語政策負評如潮，是執行出問題，完全甩鍋教育部！現在在這邊給您一個機會，您認為雙語政策的失敗，教育部要負最大的責任嗎？這個說法是不是有點不太公平啊？您可以回應一下。"],["潘部長文忠：委員，現在都還在持續進行的過程，剛才……我要跟委員報告的是，我要講到一個很關鍵的，剛才委員引雜誌的報導，其實我對外也都做這樣的說明，教育部是穩健地在往前，不是讓縣市動輒……包含六都都是以有多少學校達成雙語學校，這個其實造成我們在執行上很大的誤失，所以跟委員報告，教育部審核的計畫一定是師資一體到位，所以才會有2030逐步地往前……"],["葛委員如鈞：好，謝謝部長，我時間有限啦，我直接幫你走……"],["潘部長文忠：但縣市走太快了，2年要讓縣市的學校通通是雙語學校……"],["葛委員如鈞：我幫你總結啦，還沒成功之前都說時間還不夠長，有人說有問題就說指標不對，如果是媒體報導就說那是媒體的報導！沒關係，我問你下一題。部長，您要卸任了，排除政治壓力，單純從您的良心、從一個教育工作者的心態角度來看，你認為政府的雙語政策還要繼續推行嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，要穩健推行，不是躁進啦，我要講的是這個。"],["葛委員如鈞：100億還不夠穩健是吧？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，你看前面的……"],["葛委員如鈞：從3,000萬、4,000萬直接跳10億以上，再來3、40億喔！"],["潘部長文忠：不是，委員，我一向務實推動教育工作。"],["葛委員如鈞：你經費躁進啊！成果怎麼沒有躁進呢？"],["潘部長文忠：那經費也是後面因為有前瞻計畫，能夠讓一些師資──我講的是外籍的師資能夠補充，這個部分並不是8年、10年通通以這個經費啦，所以我要跟……"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝部長。我為什麼現在要跟您做這樣的互動？就是這個交換的時期很重要，如果您真的覺得有哪裡做得不夠好、哪裡需要檢討，或雙語政策真的應該要調整，真的希望您可以來瞭解一下。","接下來，我給您看一個影片，7年前的政策現在真的不一定要照樣推行，請您重新考慮。這是今年3月18號我們在談校園霸凌議題時部長您的回應，我們來看第一段影片，部長用流利的英語來回應喔！","（播放影片）"],["葛委員如鈞：這完全是AI直接將您講的話用您的聲音翻成英文，而且還對上了嘴型，這個現在還需要幾秒鐘的時間運算，接下來可以完全地即時運作，這是您本來說話的中文版。","（播放影片）"],["葛委員如鈞：我想大家可能中文聽很多了，我們再看一次英文，感覺一下。","（播放影片）"],["葛委員如鈞：我想連部長自己可能都很難相信，這個背景的音樂都還可以合成，我們來看一下，這還不是全部，現在Meta剛發表的Seamless Communication完全可以real time，我直接跟別人開會、直接跟別人講話、我教別人說話、我對談，100國以上的語言可以即時說出去給人家聽，我們現在還要雙什麼語？我們還要學一個英文搞到一百多億嗎？","我誠心地建議，未來在教導學生多種語言的時候，不要再侷限於英語，甚至應該要討論包含學習如何跟AI對話，用AI來說出100國以上的語言，同時我們也要呼籲繁中語料要全面開放，為什麼？AI可以幫助我們的學生講出100國的語言，我可以讓全球46億人口透過AI來學華語嘛！但是我們華語的資料完全不足啊！「母湯」聽不懂，我們講「視頻」、「音頻」，這些用語可能也都不是臺灣認定的華語！希望未來可以有更多資料全面開放給國科會TAIDE來使用，我們才能夠讓AI有完整的繁體中文化，用數位的工具讓華語在全球發揚光大。","最後，AI能夠帶來幫助，但也有可能侵害學生的權益，請教一下部長，目前教育部對於高中生使用AI工具製作學習歷程檔案或者備審資料的態度和立場是什麼？現在大家可能有很多的升學申請的過程在進行，老師在看資料，學生有沒有責任在底下標註我有使用AI？還是可以不用？我們的老師是不是就要全盤盡信呢？是完全禁止使用還是一定要進行揭露，有沒有什麼前提、有沒有什麼條件，您是不是現在趕快提出說明一下？是有條件地接受還是絕對不接受學生使用AI工具製作學習歷程檔案或備審資料？可不可以請您提出？"],["潘部長文忠：我說明一下，委員剛才講到以AI或數位科技協助語言的學習，我非常贊同，在上個禮拜我主持一個本國語言推動會，那裡頭各項族語、客語、中文的轉換，因為現在也在請剛才委員提到的幾個跨部會建語料庫，但是在善用，那一天廖元甫教授──不知道委員是否熟悉，他在提應用的時候，我完全對應剛才委員講的那個想法，現在也在持續進行，剛才委員提到學習歷程檔案等等，不要說學習歷程檔案，其他學校在做評鑑……"],["葛委員如鈞：申請資料。"],["潘部長文忠：這個部分，其實揭露是一件重要的事。"],["葛委員如鈞：要不要揭露很重要，但可以不要揭露嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：要揭露是一件重要的事，目前在大學，我相信我們幾個大學，柯召委在大學當時大家都知道這本來就是一個輔助的工具，但是就這個揭露本身來講，對於老師要去評價、要去做什麼，我認為是有……我看各大學目前也朝這個方式來做。"],["葛委員如鈞：這個問題很重要，不然變成老師只是在評哪一個學生比較有錢，可以用比較厲害的AI來做內容，哪一個學生比較會用AI來溝通，但是你們在相關的比賽要給人家記小過，這完全是沒有一個方針可言！希望教育部未來可以再更加公開明確的規範，讓學生跟家長可以依循，再次感謝主席也感謝部長您這八年來對於教育事業的付出，期待未來部長回歸民間以後，能夠跟我們一起繼續為國家教育政策奮鬥努力，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝兩位。本席先宣布在吳沛憶委員質詢完畢之後，先休息5分鐘，謝謝。","接下來請郭昱晴委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":446,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-12","speakers":["柯志恩","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","萬美玲","羅廷瑋","葉元之","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","張雅琳","吳春城","范雲","麥玉珍","林倩綺","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","陳秀寳"],"page_start":385,"meetingDate":["2024-05-13"],"gazette_id":"1134401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134401_00014"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席就「大學推動國際招生及臺灣優華語計畫之執行成效及檢討」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134401_00009"}},"transcript":{"id":"152428","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152428","tool":"pyannote","id":"152428-pyannote"},"job_id":"vSBDVKDde4oZfBqR","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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00:00:58,683\n優華語的計畫其實從110年以後就開始推動但是本席辦公室請教育部提供優華語分年的執行成效\n\n4\n00:00:59,915 --> 00:01:21,191\n我們卻沒有辦法拿到我們只能拿到112年度的成果那我們從今天的書面報告當中也可以看到112年度的成果當中只提到了設置4所海外教學中心建立校際合作選送人員海外任教補助外國學生來臺學習華語等等\n\n5\n00:01:23,544 --> 00:01:49,827\n在這邊我必須要說完全沒有提到任何數位教學或是數位學習系統及平台的建制我們是真的活在2024年嗎我們現在是113年民國113年我們與各大學的這個華語推廣活動竟然還限於實體的交流我們好像回到這個明朝的時代鄭和下西洋不上船就沒有辦法跟人家交流\n\n6\n00:01:50,828 --> 00:02:14,128\n我們居然捨棄了全球42億的人口隨時可以上網學華語行動的上網用戶去年花了1.4億去設置這些實體的這些互動真的是優華語是不是要變成優華語這個優心的優想請教一下部長我們優華語計畫有沒有運用數位工具來推廣華語教學如果有可不可以稍微說明一下情況跟成效\n\n7\n00:02:15,649 --> 00:02:22,575\n對不起部長我必須打斷你是比較多還是全部到底有沒有數位目前是提供數位課程有數位課程嗎有在報告裡面嗎我們好像都沒有看到喔那報告是不是有數位課程啊\n\n8\n00:02:43,477 --> 00:02:58,562\n我想我們非常重視虛實的整合尤其在疫情之後我們現在這個世界衛生組織還說未來可能還有新的傳染病當然我們都不希望有它是代號叫X疾病\n\n9\n00:02:59,622 --> 00:03:15,840\n所以我們的這個各個這個境外學生的人數呢會隨著疫情的浮動但是我們現在已經進入數位的時代真的很難想像我們的全球推廣計畫沒有更多啦但你說有我就相信你說有雖然我們裡面沒看到真的沒看到\n\n10\n00:03:16,921 --> 00:03:34,833\n說有就有啊,但是我們沒有更多人來使用,我們覺得這是需要檢討的希望部長回去以後跟同仁一起用這最後非常非常寶貴的時間重新檢視優華語的計畫內容,做一些合適的資源配置那接下來我們不只華語,我們還要來請教您關於雙語教育的問題\n\n11\n00:03:37,408 --> 00:03:53,645\n107年12月當時準總統賴清德先生是任行政院長發表了《2030年為目標打造台灣成為雙語國家的願景》要求全面啟動這樣的計畫想請教一下部長賴準總統所謂的雙語國家政策指的是哪雙語\n\n12\n00:03:55,370 --> 00:04:10,580\n跟委員報告這個計畫的名稱後來應該說正確的再做一些調整不是用雙語國家是國家雙語政策所以這個新聞應該要下架要改是不是我不知道這個可能是新聞啦就是說目前是國家雙語政策因為這個確實有一個比較討論後所訂出來的好沒有關係\n\n13\n00:04:18,766 --> 00:04:23,310\n我想我們的這個當時行政院長接下來要變總統希望我們所有的政策喊出來都是有憑有據不要改來改去我們來看這個實際上有很多這種打臉的現象我們就不多說啦其實所謂雙語指的是華語或英語這一種說法是完全與法無拒的\n\n14\n00:04:38,224 --> 00:04:57,942\n實際上我們完全沒有在法律中明定所謂的官方語言依據國家語言發展法我們的語言指的是臺灣固有族群使用的自然語言及臺灣手語而且要做很多的多語言之間的平衡做一個多元的平衡今天我們做這樣的一個說法說要雙語要英語\n\n15\n00:05:01,445 --> 00:05:15,990\n南寶會不會未來又有新的院長一聲令下我們的雙語或多語的政策又要換一個名字又要360度的大轉彎我們來看一下自從我們先不管就說好那既然已經執行了107年宣布執行到現在6年7年67年\n\n16\n00:05:20,951 --> 00:05:41,961\n我們呢為了達成雙語國家目標已經投入多少錢我覺得這個真的是不只是指數成長這是十倍百倍的增長從幾千萬到幾十億我們來看一下我們已經投入了一百億我們來看看現場的反應如何根據親子天下的雜誌全台有高達四成的公立國中小尚未實施雙語課程22個縣市當中有八成的縣市認為本國資質不足\n\n17\n00:05:47,944 --> 00:06:13,185\n31%的縣市認為中央經費補助不足22%的人說第一線教師反對這個政策當時賴清德院長的一句話讓教育部6年狠砸超過百億來推行雙語政策但是我們來看再看這個我們的全球英語能力指標只是略高於全球平均但是在111個國家及地區當中屬於中間偏後我們再看\n\n18\n00:06:14,506 --> 00:06:28,831\n這是你們的報告2030雙語政策計畫教育部推出的可量化的經濟效應我們那時候是擦亮眼睛說我是不是看錯了創造工作機會0帶動公民企業投資0\n\n19\n00:06:31,421 --> 00:06:55,681\n這還不是全部不只英語成績不見起色根據去年公布的應該說去年公布2021的台灣參加第4屆的這個國際閱讀數量調查首度出現小四學生中文閱讀能力下滑的現象這個真的是我們要看到的嗎我們再來看金語已經現在變成我們這種交作業的這個常見的狀況了再來還有\n\n20\n00:07:00,465 --> 00:07:14,747\n這個過去9年的國中會考每年都有近3000到7000名考生放棄寫國語的作文考0分的人數遠遠超過滿級分的人數我這樣講完還有啦但我們就不多說我們花了6年100多億\n\n21\n00:07:15,708 --> 00:07:17,529\n這個說法是不是有點不太公平啊?您可以回應一下?\n\n22\n00:07:38,855 --> 00:07:53,561\n委員現在都還在持續進行的過程那剛才我要跟委員報告的是我要講到一個很關鍵的剛才委員引雜誌的報導裡面其實我對外也都說這樣說明教育部是穩健的在往前\n\n23\n00:07:54,121 --> 00:07:54,561\n我幫你總結啦就是說才沒成功之前都說時間還不夠長啦齁\n\n24\n00:08:22,845 --> 00:08:39,147\n然後有人說有問題就指標不對如果是媒體報導就是說媒體的報導沒關係我問你下一題部長您要卸任排除政治壓力單純從您的良心從一個教育工作者的心態角度來看你認為政府的雙贏政策還要繼續推行嗎\n\n25\n00:08:40,248 --> 00:08:42,671\n委員要穩健推行不是照鏡啦我要講的是這個一百億還不夠照還不還是穩健是吧從三千萬四千萬直接跳十億以上再來三四十億喔不是委員我一向務實推動教育工作你經費照鏡啊成果怎麼沒有照鏡呢\n\n26\n00:08:58,268 --> 00:09:03,530\n那經費也是後面因為有前瞻計畫能夠讓一些師資我講的是外籍的師資能夠補充這個部分並不是8年10年通通以這個經費好謝謝部長我為什麼現在要跟您做這樣的互動是說這個交換的這個時期很重要如果您真的覺得哪裡做得不夠好哪裡需要檢討或雙語政策真的應該要調整\n\n27\n00:09:26,937 --> 00:09:45,846\n真的希望您可以來了解一下我們來看一下接下來我們給您看一個影片七年前的政策現在真的不一定要照樣推行請您重新考慮這今年3月18號我們在談校園霸凌的議題的時候部長您的回應我們來看第一段影片部長用流利的英語來回應\n\n28\n00:09:47,006 --> 00:09:52,750\n這完全是AI直接將您講的話用您的聲音翻成英文而且還對上了嘴形這個現在還需要幾秒鐘的時間運算接下來可以完全的即時運作大齡如果從國際的來講他有他的定義啦但孩子感受到的\n\n29\n00:10:14,827 --> 00:10:27,057\n我想大家可能中文聽很多我們來看一次英文感覺一下我想連部長自己可能都會很難相信這個背景的音樂都還可以合成回去我們來看一下這還不是全部現在META剛發表的SIMLESSCOMMUNICATION完全可以RULETIME\n\n30\n00:10:37,606 --> 00:10:59,730\n我直接跟別人開會直接跟別人講話我教別人說話我對談我一百國以上的語言可以即時的可以說出去給人家聽我們現在還要雙雙雙什麼語我們還要學一個英文搞到一百多億嗎我誠心的建議齁未來在教導學生多種語言的時候不要再侷限於英語甚至應該要討論包含學習如何跟AI對話\n\n31\n00:11:02,671 --> 00:11:02,831\n葛如鈞\n\n32\n00:11:26,503 --> 00:11:41,949\n這些用語可能也都不是臺灣認定的華語希望未來可以有更多的資料全面開放給國會會臺德來使用我們才能夠讓AI有完整的繁體的中文化用數位的工具讓華語在全球發揚光大最後謝謝主席給我時間AI能夠帶來幫助但是也有可能侵害學生的權益請教一下部長\n\n33\n00:11:48,271 --> 00:12:15,516\n目前教育部對於高中生使用AI工具製作學習歷程檔案或者備審資料的態度和立場是什麼現在大家可能有很多的升學升請的過程在進行老師在看資料學生有沒有責任在底下標註我有使用AI還是可以不用我們的老師是不是就要全盤盡信呢是完全禁止使用還是一定要進行揭露\n\n34\n00:12:16,016 --> 00:12:27,689\n有沒有什麼前提有沒有什麼條件您是不是現在趕快來提出說明一下是有條件的接受還是絕對不接受學生使用AI工具製作學習歷程檔案或備成資料可不可以請提出\n\n35\n00:12:31,053 --> 00:12:36,017\n委員剛才講到以AI或數位科技學足語言的學習我非常贊同在上個禮拜我主持我們一個本國語言推動會那個裡頭各項足語、客語、中文的轉換因為現在也就是在請剛才委員所提到的幾個話部會\n\n36\n00:12:50,450 --> 00:12:51,110\n要不要揭露很重要但可以不要揭露嗎\n\n37\n00:13:15,043 --> 00:13:16,464\n這個問題很重要不然變成老師只是在評哪一個學生比較有錢可以用比較厲害的AI來做內容\n\n38\n00:13:39,534 --> 00:13:39,554\n謝謝謝謝兩位\n\n39\n00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,291\n本期先宣布我們在吳佩儀委員質詢完畢之後我們就先休息\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n17087\t26235\t謝謝主席我講慢一點讓這個部長喘口氣感謝主席有請教育部潘文忠部長\n26894\t49147\t我們請潘部長各位好謝謝部長您好我想還是要非常肯定您八年來對於教育政策的推行所做的各種努力我想今天機會還是很難得也謝謝您還是來到這邊跟我們進行互動那我們今天的這個題目是大學國際招生跟優華語的計畫\n51489\t58683\t優華語的計畫其實從110年以後就開始推動但是本席辦公室請教育部提供優華語分年的執行成效\n59915\t81191\t我們卻沒有辦法拿到我們只能拿到112年度的成果那我們從今天的書面報告當中也可以看到112年度的成果當中只提到了設置4所海外教學中心建立校際合作選送人員海外任教補助外國學生來臺學習華語等等\n83544\t109827\t在這邊我必須要說完全沒有提到任何數位教學或是數位學習系統及平台的建制我們是真的活在2024年嗎我們現在是113年民國113年我們與各大學的這個華語推廣活動竟然還限於實體的交流我們好像回到這個明朝的時代鄭和下西洋不上船就沒有辦法跟人家交流\n110828\t134128\t我們居然捨棄了全球42億的人口隨時可以上網學華語行動的上網用戶去年花了1.4億去設置這些實體的這些互動真的是優華語是不是要變成優華語這個優心的優想請教一下部長我們優華語計畫有沒有運用數位工具來推廣華語教學如果有可不可以稍微說明一下情況跟成效\n135649\t142575\t對不起部長我必須打斷你是比較多還是全部到底有沒有數位目前是提供數位課程有數位課程嗎有在報告裡面嗎我們好像都沒有看到喔那報告是不是有數位課程啊\n163477\t178562\t我想我們非常重視虛實的整合尤其在疫情之後我們現在這個世界衛生組織還說未來可能還有新的傳染病當然我們都不希望有它是代號叫X疾病\n179622\t195840\t所以我們的這個各個這個境外學生的人數呢會隨著疫情的浮動但是我們現在已經進入數位的時代真的很難想像我們的全球推廣計畫沒有更多啦但你說有我就相信你說有雖然我們裡面沒看到真的沒看到\n196921\t214833\t說有就有啊,但是我們沒有更多人來使用,我們覺得這是需要檢討的希望部長回去以後跟同仁一起用這最後非常非常寶貴的時間重新檢視優華語的計畫內容,做一些合適的資源配置那接下來我們不只華語,我們還要來請教您關於雙語教育的問題\n217408\t233645\t107年12月當時準總統賴清德先生是任行政院長發表了《2030年為目標打造台灣成為雙語國家的願景》要求全面啟動這樣的計畫想請教一下部長賴準總統所謂的雙語國家政策指的是哪雙語\n235370\t250580\t跟委員報告這個計畫的名稱後來應該說正確的再做一些調整不是用雙語國家是國家雙語政策所以這個新聞應該要下架要改是不是我不知道這個可能是新聞啦就是說目前是國家雙語政策因為這個確實有一個比較討論後所訂出來的好沒有關係\n258766\t263310\t我想我們的這個當時行政院長接下來要變總統希望我們所有的政策喊出來都是有憑有據不要改來改去我們來看這個實際上有很多這種打臉的現象我們就不多說啦其實所謂雙語指的是華語或英語這一種說法是完全與法無拒的\n278224\t297942\t實際上我們完全沒有在法律中明定所謂的官方語言依據國家語言發展法我們的語言指的是臺灣固有族群使用的自然語言及臺灣手語而且要做很多的多語言之間的平衡做一個多元的平衡今天我們做這樣的一個說法說要雙語要英語\n301445\t315990\t南寶會不會未來又有新的院長一聲令下我們的雙語或多語的政策又要換一個名字又要360度的大轉彎我們來看一下自從我們先不管就說好那既然已經執行了107年宣布執行到現在6年7年67年\n320951\t341961\t我們呢為了達成雙語國家目標已經投入多少錢我覺得這個真的是不只是指數成長這是十倍百倍的增長從幾千萬到幾十億我們來看一下我們已經投入了一百億我們來看看現場的反應如何根據親子天下的雜誌全台有高達四成的公立國中小尚未實施雙語課程22個縣市當中有八成的縣市認為本國資質不足\n347944\t373185\t31%的縣市認為中央經費補助不足22%的人說第一線教師反對這個政策當時賴清德院長的一句話讓教育部6年狠砸超過百億來推行雙語政策但是我們來看再看這個我們的全球英語能力指標只是略高於全球平均但是在111個國家及地區當中屬於中間偏後我們再看\n374506\t388831\t這是你們的報告2030雙語政策計畫教育部推出的可量化的經濟效應我們那時候是擦亮眼睛說我是不是看錯了創造工作機會0帶動公民企業投資0\n391421\t415681\t這還不是全部不只英語成績不見起色根據去年公布的應該說去年公布2021的台灣參加第4屆的這個國際閱讀數量調查首度出現小四學生中文閱讀能力下滑的現象這個真的是我們要看到的嗎我們再來看金語已經現在變成我們這種交作業的這個常見的狀況了再來還有\n420465\t434747\t這個過去9年的國中會考每年都有近3000到7000名考生放棄寫國語的作文考0分的人數遠遠超過滿級分的人數我這樣講完還有啦但我們就不多說我們花了6年100多億\n435708\t437529\t這個說法是不是有點不太公平啊?您可以回應一下?\n458855\t473561\t委員現在都還在持續進行的過程那剛才我要跟委員報告的是我要講到一個很關鍵的剛才委員引雜誌的報導裡面其實我對外也都說這樣說明教育部是穩健的在往前\n474121\t474561\t我幫你總結啦就是說才沒成功之前都說時間還不夠長啦齁\n502845\t519147\t然後有人說有問題就指標不對如果是媒體報導就是說媒體的報導沒關係我問你下一題部長您要卸任排除政治壓力單純從您的良心從一個教育工作者的心態角度來看你認為政府的雙贏政策還要繼續推行嗎\n520248\t522671\t委員要穩健推行 不是照鏡啦 我要講的是這個一百億還不夠照 還不 還是穩健是吧從三千萬四千萬直接跳十億以上 再來三四十億喔不是 委員我一向務實推動教育工作你經費照鏡啊 成果怎麼沒有照鏡呢\n538268\t543530\t那經費也是後面因為有前瞻計畫能夠讓一些師資我講的是外籍的師資能夠補充這個部分並不是8年10年通通以這個經費好 謝謝部長我為什麼現在要跟您做這樣的互動是說這個交換的這個時期很重要如果您真的覺得哪裡做得不夠好哪裡需要檢討或雙語政策真的應該要調整\n566937\t585846\t真的希望您可以來了解一下我們來看一下接下來我們給您看一個影片七年前的政策現在真的不一定要照樣推行請您重新考慮這今年3月18號我們在談校園霸凌的議題的時候部長您的回應我們來看第一段影片部長用流利的英語來回應\n587006\t592750\t這完全是AI直接將您講的話用您的聲音翻成英文而且還對上了嘴形這個現在還需要幾秒鐘的時間運算接下來可以完全的即時運作大齡如果從國際的來講他有他的定義啦但孩子感受到的\n614827\t627057\t我想大家可能中文聽很多我們來看一次英文感覺一下我想連部長自己可能都會很難相信這個背景的音樂都還可以合成回去我們來看一下這還不是全部現在META剛發表的SIMLESS COMMUNICATION完全可以RULE TIME\n637606\t659730\t我直接跟別人開會直接跟別人講話我教別人說話我對談我一百國以上的語言可以即時的可以說出去給人家聽我們現在還要雙雙雙什麼語我們還要學一個英文搞到一百多億嗎我誠心的建議齁未來在教導學生多種語言的時候不要再侷限於英語甚至應該要討論包含學習如何跟AI對話\n662671\t662831\t葛如鈞\n686503\t701949\t這些用語可能也都不是臺灣認定的華語希望未來可以有更多的資料全面開放給國會會臺德來使用我們才能夠讓AI有完整的繁體的中文化用數位的工具讓華語在全球發揚光大最後謝謝主席給我時間AI能夠帶來幫助但是也有可能侵害學生的權益請教一下部長\n708271\t735516\t目前教育部對於高中生使用AI工具製作學習歷程檔案或者備審資料的態度和立場是什麼現在大家可能有很多的升學升請的過程在進行老師在看資料學生有沒有責任在底下標註我有使用AI還是可以不用我們的老師是不是就要全盤盡信呢是完全禁止使用還是一定要進行揭露\n736016\t747689\t有沒有什麼前提有沒有什麼條件您是不是現在趕快來提出說明一下是有條件的接受還是絕對不接受學生使用AI工具製作學習歷程檔案或備成資料可不可以請提出\n751053\t756017\t委員剛才講到以AI或數位科技學足語言的學習我非常贊同在上個禮拜我主持我們一個本國語言推動會那個裡頭各項足語、客語、中文的轉換因為現在也就是在請剛才委員所提到的幾個話部會\n770450\t771110\t要不要揭露很重要但可以不要揭露嗎\n795043\t796464\t這個問題很重要不然變成老師只是在評哪一個學生比較有錢可以用比較厲害的AI來做內容\n819534\t819554\t謝謝 謝謝兩位\n849400\t853291\t本期先宣布我們在吳佩儀委員質詢完畢之後我們就先休息\n","txt":"謝謝主席我講慢一點讓這個部長喘口氣感謝主席有請教育部潘文忠部長\n我們請潘部長各位好謝謝部長您好我想還是要非常肯定您八年來對於教育政策的推行所做的各種努力我想今天機會還是很難得也謝謝您還是來到這邊跟我們進行互動那我們今天的這個題目是大學國際招生跟優華語的計畫\n優華語的計畫其實從110年以後就開始推動但是本席辦公室請教育部提供優華語分年的執行成效\n我們卻沒有辦法拿到我們只能拿到112年度的成果那我們從今天的書面報告當中也可以看到112年度的成果當中只提到了設置4所海外教學中心建立校際合作選送人員海外任教補助外國學生來臺學習華語等等\n在這邊我必須要說完全沒有提到任何數位教學或是數位學習系統及平台的建制我們是真的活在2024年嗎我們現在是113年民國113年我們與各大學的這個華語推廣活動竟然還限於實體的交流我們好像回到這個明朝的時代鄭和下西洋不上船就沒有辦法跟人家交流\n我們居然捨棄了全球42億的人口隨時可以上網學華語行動的上網用戶去年花了1.4億去設置這些實體的這些互動真的是優華語是不是要變成優華語這個優心的優想請教一下部長我們優華語計畫有沒有運用數位工具來推廣華語教學如果有可不可以稍微說明一下情況跟成效\n對不起部長我必須打斷你是比較多還是全部到底有沒有數位目前是提供數位課程有數位課程嗎有在報告裡面嗎我們好像都沒有看到喔那報告是不是有數位課程啊\n我想我們非常重視虛實的整合尤其在疫情之後我們現在這個世界衛生組織還說未來可能還有新的傳染病當然我們都不希望有它是代號叫X疾病\n所以我們的這個各個這個境外學生的人數呢會隨著疫情的浮動但是我們現在已經進入數位的時代真的很難想像我們的全球推廣計畫沒有更多啦但你說有我就相信你說有雖然我們裡面沒看到真的沒看到\n說有就有啊,但是我們沒有更多人來使用,我們覺得這是需要檢討的希望部長回去以後跟同仁一起用這最後非常非常寶貴的時間重新檢視優華語的計畫內容,做一些合適的資源配置那接下來我們不只華語,我們還要來請教您關於雙語教育的問題\n107年12月當時準總統賴清德先生是任行政院長發表了《2030年為目標打造台灣成為雙語國家的願景》要求全面啟動這樣的計畫想請教一下部長賴準總統所謂的雙語國家政策指的是哪雙語\n跟委員報告這個計畫的名稱後來應該說正確的再做一些調整不是用雙語國家是國家雙語政策所以這個新聞應該要下架要改是不是我不知道這個可能是新聞啦就是說目前是國家雙語政策因為這個確實有一個比較討論後所訂出來的好沒有關係\n我想我們的這個當時行政院長接下來要變總統希望我們所有的政策喊出來都是有憑有據不要改來改去我們來看這個實際上有很多這種打臉的現象我們就不多說啦其實所謂雙語指的是華語或英語這一種說法是完全與法無拒的\n實際上我們完全沒有在法律中明定所謂的官方語言依據國家語言發展法我們的語言指的是臺灣固有族群使用的自然語言及臺灣手語而且要做很多的多語言之間的平衡做一個多元的平衡今天我們做這樣的一個說法說要雙語要英語\n南寶會不會未來又有新的院長一聲令下我們的雙語或多語的政策又要換一個名字又要360度的大轉彎我們來看一下自從我們先不管就說好那既然已經執行了107年宣布執行到現在6年7年67年\n我們呢為了達成雙語國家目標已經投入多少錢我覺得這個真的是不只是指數成長這是十倍百倍的增長從幾千萬到幾十億我們來看一下我們已經投入了一百億我們來看看現場的反應如何根據親子天下的雜誌全台有高達四成的公立國中小尚未實施雙語課程22個縣市當中有八成的縣市認為本國資質不足\n31%的縣市認為中央經費補助不足22%的人說第一線教師反對這個政策當時賴清德院長的一句話讓教育部6年狠砸超過百億來推行雙語政策但是我們來看再看這個我們的全球英語能力指標只是略高於全球平均但是在111個國家及地區當中屬於中間偏後我們再看\n這是你們的報告2030雙語政策計畫教育部推出的可量化的經濟效應我們那時候是擦亮眼睛說我是不是看錯了創造工作機會0帶動公民企業投資0\n這還不是全部不只英語成績不見起色根據去年公布的應該說去年公布2021的台灣參加第4屆的這個國際閱讀數量調查首度出現小四學生中文閱讀能力下滑的現象這個真的是我們要看到的嗎我們再來看金語已經現在變成我們這種交作業的這個常見的狀況了再來還有\n這個過去9年的國中會考每年都有近3000到7000名考生放棄寫國語的作文考0分的人數遠遠超過滿級分的人數我這樣講完還有啦但我們就不多說我們花了6年100多億\n這個說法是不是有點不太公平啊?您可以回應一下?\n委員現在都還在持續進行的過程那剛才我要跟委員報告的是我要講到一個很關鍵的剛才委員引雜誌的報導裡面其實我對外也都說這樣說明教育部是穩健的在往前\n我幫你總結啦就是說才沒成功之前都說時間還不夠長啦齁\n然後有人說有問題就指標不對如果是媒體報導就是說媒體的報導沒關係我問你下一題部長您要卸任排除政治壓力單純從您的良心從一個教育工作者的心態角度來看你認為政府的雙贏政策還要繼續推行嗎\n委員要穩健推行 不是照鏡啦 我要講的是這個一百億還不夠照 還不 還是穩健是吧從三千萬四千萬直接跳十億以上 再來三四十億喔不是 委員我一向務實推動教育工作你經費照鏡啊 成果怎麼沒有照鏡呢\n那經費也是後面因為有前瞻計畫能夠讓一些師資我講的是外籍的師資能夠補充這個部分並不是8年10年通通以這個經費好 謝謝部長我為什麼現在要跟您做這樣的互動是說這個交換的這個時期很重要如果您真的覺得哪裡做得不夠好哪裡需要檢討或雙語政策真的應該要調整\n真的希望您可以來了解一下我們來看一下接下來我們給您看一個影片七年前的政策現在真的不一定要照樣推行請您重新考慮這今年3月18號我們在談校園霸凌的議題的時候部長您的回應我們來看第一段影片部長用流利的英語來回應\n這完全是AI直接將您講的話用您的聲音翻成英文而且還對上了嘴形這個現在還需要幾秒鐘的時間運算接下來可以完全的即時運作大齡如果從國際的來講他有他的定義啦但孩子感受到的\n我想大家可能中文聽很多我們來看一次英文感覺一下我想連部長自己可能都會很難相信這個背景的音樂都還可以合成回去我們來看一下這還不是全部現在META剛發表的SIMLESS COMMUNICATION完全可以RULE TIME\n我直接跟別人開會直接跟別人講話我教別人說話我對談我一百國以上的語言可以即時的可以說出去給人家聽我們現在還要雙雙雙什麼語我們還要學一個英文搞到一百多億嗎我誠心的建議齁未來在教導學生多種語言的時候不要再侷限於英語甚至應該要討論包含學習如何跟AI對話\n葛如鈞\n這些用語可能也都不是臺灣認定的華語希望未來可以有更多的資料全面開放給國會會臺德來使用我們才能夠讓AI有完整的繁體的中文化用數位的工具讓華語在全球發揚光大最後謝謝主席給我時間AI能夠帶來幫助但是也有可能侵害學生的權益請教一下部長\n目前教育部對於高中生使用AI工具製作學習歷程檔案或者備審資料的態度和立場是什麼現在大家可能有很多的升學升請的過程在進行老師在看資料學生有沒有責任在底下標註我有使用AI還是可以不用我們的老師是不是就要全盤盡信呢是完全禁止使用還是一定要進行揭露\n有沒有什麼前提有沒有什麼條件您是不是現在趕快來提出說明一下是有條件的接受還是絕對不接受學生使用AI工具製作學習歷程檔案或備成資料可不可以請提出\n委員剛才講到以AI或數位科技學足語言的學習我非常贊同在上個禮拜我主持我們一個本國語言推動會那個裡頭各項足語、客語、中文的轉換因為現在也就是在請剛才委員所提到的幾個話部會\n要不要揭露很重要但可以不要揭露嗎\n這個問題很重要不然變成老師只是在評哪一個學生比較有錢可以用比較厲害的AI來做內容\n謝謝 謝謝兩位\n本期先宣布我們在吳佩儀委員質詢完畢之後我們就先休息\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:17.087 --> 00:26.235\n謝謝主席我講慢一點讓這個部長喘口氣感謝主席有請教育部潘文忠部長\n\n00:26.894 --> 00:49.147\n我們請潘部長各位好謝謝部長您好我想還是要非常肯定您八年來對於教育政策的推行所做的各種努力我想今天機會還是很難得也謝謝您還是來到這邊跟我們進行互動那我們今天的這個題目是大學國際招生跟優華語的計畫\n\n00:51.489 --> 00:58.683\n優華語的計畫其實從110年以後就開始推動但是本席辦公室請教育部提供優華語分年的執行成效\n\n00:59.915 --> 01:21.191\n我們卻沒有辦法拿到我們只能拿到112年度的成果那我們從今天的書面報告當中也可以看到112年度的成果當中只提到了設置4所海外教學中心建立校際合作選送人員海外任教補助外國學生來臺學習華語等等\n\n01:23.544 --> 01:49.827\n在這邊我必須要說完全沒有提到任何數位教學或是數位學習系統及平台的建制我們是真的活在2024年嗎我們現在是113年民國113年我們與各大學的這個華語推廣活動竟然還限於實體的交流我們好像回到這個明朝的時代鄭和下西洋不上船就沒有辦法跟人家交流\n\n01:50.828 --> 02:14.128\n我們居然捨棄了全球42億的人口隨時可以上網學華語行動的上網用戶去年花了1.4億去設置這些實體的這些互動真的是優華語是不是要變成優華語這個優心的優想請教一下部長我們優華語計畫有沒有運用數位工具來推廣華語教學如果有可不可以稍微說明一下情況跟成效\n\n02:15.649 --> 02:22.575\n對不起部長我必須打斷你是比較多還是全部到底有沒有數位目前是提供數位課程有數位課程嗎有在報告裡面嗎我們好像都沒有看到喔那報告是不是有數位課程啊\n\n02:43.477 --> 02:58.562\n我想我們非常重視虛實的整合尤其在疫情之後我們現在這個世界衛生組織還說未來可能還有新的傳染病當然我們都不希望有它是代號叫X疾病\n\n02:59.622 --> 03:15.840\n所以我們的這個各個這個境外學生的人數呢會隨著疫情的浮動但是我們現在已經進入數位的時代真的很難想像我們的全球推廣計畫沒有更多啦但你說有我就相信你說有雖然我們裡面沒看到真的沒看到\n\n03:16.921 --> 03:34.833\n說有就有啊,但是我們沒有更多人來使用,我們覺得這是需要檢討的希望部長回去以後跟同仁一起用這最後非常非常寶貴的時間重新檢視優華語的計畫內容,做一些合適的資源配置那接下來我們不只華語,我們還要來請教您關於雙語教育的問題\n\n03:37.408 --> 03:53.645\n107年12月當時準總統賴清德先生是任行政院長發表了《2030年為目標打造台灣成為雙語國家的願景》要求全面啟動這樣的計畫想請教一下部長賴準總統所謂的雙語國家政策指的是哪雙語\n\n03:55.370 --> 04:10.580\n跟委員報告這個計畫的名稱後來應該說正確的再做一些調整不是用雙語國家是國家雙語政策所以這個新聞應該要下架要改是不是我不知道這個可能是新聞啦就是說目前是國家雙語政策因為這個確實有一個比較討論後所訂出來的好沒有關係\n\n04:18.766 --> 04:23.310\n我想我們的這個當時行政院長接下來要變總統希望我們所有的政策喊出來都是有憑有據不要改來改去我們來看這個實際上有很多這種打臉的現象我們就不多說啦其實所謂雙語指的是華語或英語這一種說法是完全與法無拒的\n\n04:38.224 --> 04:57.942\n實際上我們完全沒有在法律中明定所謂的官方語言依據國家語言發展法我們的語言指的是臺灣固有族群使用的自然語言及臺灣手語而且要做很多的多語言之間的平衡做一個多元的平衡今天我們做這樣的一個說法說要雙語要英語\n\n05:01.445 --> 05:15.990\n南寶會不會未來又有新的院長一聲令下我們的雙語或多語的政策又要換一個名字又要360度的大轉彎我們來看一下自從我們先不管就說好那既然已經執行了107年宣布執行到現在6年7年67年\n\n05:20.951 --> 05:41.961\n我們呢為了達成雙語國家目標已經投入多少錢我覺得這個真的是不只是指數成長這是十倍百倍的增長從幾千萬到幾十億我們來看一下我們已經投入了一百億我們來看看現場的反應如何根據親子天下的雜誌全台有高達四成的公立國中小尚未實施雙語課程22個縣市當中有八成的縣市認為本國資質不足\n\n05:47.944 --> 06:13.185\n31%的縣市認為中央經費補助不足22%的人說第一線教師反對這個政策當時賴清德院長的一句話讓教育部6年狠砸超過百億來推行雙語政策但是我們來看再看這個我們的全球英語能力指標只是略高於全球平均但是在111個國家及地區當中屬於中間偏後我們再看\n\n06:14.506 --> 06:28.831\n這是你們的報告2030雙語政策計畫教育部推出的可量化的經濟效應我們那時候是擦亮眼睛說我是不是看錯了創造工作機會0帶動公民企業投資0\n\n06:31.421 --> 06:55.681\n這還不是全部不只英語成績不見起色根據去年公布的應該說去年公布2021的台灣參加第4屆的這個國際閱讀數量調查首度出現小四學生中文閱讀能力下滑的現象這個真的是我們要看到的嗎我們再來看金語已經現在變成我們這種交作業的這個常見的狀況了再來還有\n\n07:00.465 --> 07:14.747\n這個過去9年的國中會考每年都有近3000到7000名考生放棄寫國語的作文考0分的人數遠遠超過滿級分的人數我這樣講完還有啦但我們就不多說我們花了6年100多億\n\n07:15.708 --> 07:17.529\n這個說法是不是有點不太公平啊?您可以回應一下?\n\n07:38.855 --> 07:53.561\n委員現在都還在持續進行的過程那剛才我要跟委員報告的是我要講到一個很關鍵的剛才委員引雜誌的報導裡面其實我對外也都說這樣說明教育部是穩健的在往前\n\n07:54.121 --> 07:54.561\n我幫你總結啦就是說才沒成功之前都說時間還不夠長啦齁\n\n08:22.845 --> 08:39.147\n然後有人說有問題就指標不對如果是媒體報導就是說媒體的報導沒關係我問你下一題部長您要卸任排除政治壓力單純從您的良心從一個教育工作者的心態角度來看你認為政府的雙贏政策還要繼續推行嗎\n\n08:40.248 --> 08:42.671\n委員要穩健推行不是照鏡啦我要講的是這個一百億還不夠照還不還是穩健是吧從三千萬四千萬直接跳十億以上再來三四十億喔不是委員我一向務實推動教育工作你經費照鏡啊成果怎麼沒有照鏡呢\n\n08:58.268 --> 09:03.530\n那經費也是後面因為有前瞻計畫能夠讓一些師資我講的是外籍的師資能夠補充這個部分並不是8年10年通通以這個經費好謝謝部長我為什麼現在要跟您做這樣的互動是說這個交換的這個時期很重要如果您真的覺得哪裡做得不夠好哪裡需要檢討或雙語政策真的應該要調整\n\n09:26.937 --> 09:45.846\n真的希望您可以來了解一下我們來看一下接下來我們給您看一個影片七年前的政策現在真的不一定要照樣推行請您重新考慮這今年3月18號我們在談校園霸凌的議題的時候部長您的回應我們來看第一段影片部長用流利的英語來回應\n\n09:47.006 --> 09:52.750\n這完全是AI直接將您講的話用您的聲音翻成英文而且還對上了嘴形這個現在還需要幾秒鐘的時間運算接下來可以完全的即時運作大齡如果從國際的來講他有他的定義啦但孩子感受到的\n\n10:14.827 --> 10:27.057\n我想大家可能中文聽很多我們來看一次英文感覺一下我想連部長自己可能都會很難相信這個背景的音樂都還可以合成回去我們來看一下這還不是全部現在META剛發表的SIMLESSCOMMUNICATION完全可以RULETIME\n\n10:37.606 --> 10:59.730\n我直接跟別人開會直接跟別人講話我教別人說話我對談我一百國以上的語言可以即時的可以說出去給人家聽我們現在還要雙雙雙什麼語我們還要學一個英文搞到一百多億嗎我誠心的建議齁未來在教導學生多種語言的時候不要再侷限於英語甚至應該要討論包含學習如何跟AI對話\n\n11:02.671 --> 11:02.831\n葛如鈞\n\n11:26.503 --> 11:41.949\n這些用語可能也都不是臺灣認定的華語希望未來可以有更多的資料全面開放給國會會臺德來使用我們才能夠讓AI有完整的繁體的中文化用數位的工具讓華語在全球發揚光大最後謝謝主席給我時間AI能夠帶來幫助但是也有可能侵害學生的權益請教一下部長\n\n11:48.271 --> 12:15.516\n目前教育部對於高中生使用AI工具製作學習歷程檔案或者備審資料的態度和立場是什麼現在大家可能有很多的升學升請的過程在進行老師在看資料學生有沒有責任在底下標註我有使用AI還是可以不用我們的老師是不是就要全盤盡信呢是完全禁止使用還是一定要進行揭露\n\n12:16.016 --> 12:27.689\n有沒有什麼前提有沒有什麼條件您是不是現在趕快來提出說明一下是有條件的接受還是絕對不接受學生使用AI工具製作學習歷程檔案或備成資料可不可以請提出\n\n12:31.053 --> 12:36.017\n委員剛才講到以AI或數位科技學足語言的學習我非常贊同在上個禮拜我主持我們一個本國語言推動會那個裡頭各項足語、客語、中文的轉換因為現在也就是在請剛才委員所提到的幾個話部會\n\n12:50.450 --> 12:51.110\n要不要揭露很重要但可以不要揭露嗎\n\n13:15.043 --> 13:16.464\n這個問題很重要不然變成老師只是在評哪一個學生比較有錢可以用比較厲害的AI來做內容\n\n13:39.534 --> 13:39.554\n謝謝謝謝兩位\n\n14:09.400 --> 14:13.291\n本期先宣布我們在吳佩儀委員質詢完畢之後我們就先休息\n\n","segments":[{"start":17.087,"end":26.235,"text":"謝謝主席我講慢一點讓這個部長喘口氣感謝主席有請教育部潘文忠部長"},{"start":26.894,"end":49.147,"text":"我們請潘部長各位好謝謝部長您好我想還是要非常肯定您八年來對於教育政策的推行所做的各種努力我想今天機會還是很難得也謝謝您還是來到這邊跟我們進行互動那我們今天的這個題目是大學國際招生跟優華語的計畫"},{"start":51.489,"end":58.683,"text":"優華語的計畫其實從110年以後就開始推動但是本席辦公室請教育部提供優華語分年的執行成效"},{"start":59.915,"end":81.191,"text":"我們卻沒有辦法拿到我們只能拿到112年度的成果那我們從今天的書面報告當中也可以看到112年度的成果當中只提到了設置4所海外教學中心建立校際合作選送人員海外任教補助外國學生來臺學習華語等等"},{"start":83.544,"end":109.827,"text":"在這邊我必須要說完全沒有提到任何數位教學或是數位學習系統及平台的建制我們是真的活在2024年嗎我們現在是113年民國113年我們與各大學的這個華語推廣活動竟然還限於實體的交流我們好像回到這個明朝的時代鄭和下西洋不上船就沒有辦法跟人家交流"},{"start":110.828,"end":134.128,"text":"我們居然捨棄了全球42億的人口隨時可以上網學華語行動的上網用戶去年花了1.4億去設置這些實體的這些互動真的是優華語是不是要變成優華語這個優心的優想請教一下部長我們優華語計畫有沒有運用數位工具來推廣華語教學如果有可不可以稍微說明一下情況跟成效"},{"start":135.649,"end":142.575,"text":"對不起部長我必須打斷你是比較多還是全部到底有沒有數位目前是提供數位課程有數位課程嗎有在報告裡面嗎我們好像都沒有看到喔那報告是不是有數位課程啊"},{"start":163.477,"end":178.562,"text":"我想我們非常重視虛實的整合尤其在疫情之後我們現在這個世界衛生組織還說未來可能還有新的傳染病當然我們都不希望有它是代號叫X疾病"},{"start":179.622,"end":195.84,"text":"所以我們的這個各個這個境外學生的人數呢會隨著疫情的浮動但是我們現在已經進入數位的時代真的很難想像我們的全球推廣計畫沒有更多啦但你說有我就相信你說有雖然我們裡面沒看到真的沒看到"},{"start":196.921,"end":214.833,"text":"說有就有啊,但是我們沒有更多人來使用,我們覺得這是需要檢討的希望部長回去以後跟同仁一起用這最後非常非常寶貴的時間重新檢視優華語的計畫內容,做一些合適的資源配置那接下來我們不只華語,我們還要來請教您關於雙語教育的問題"},{"start":217.408,"end":233.645,"text":"107年12月當時準總統賴清德先生是任行政院長發表了《2030年為目標打造台灣成為雙語國家的願景》要求全面啟動這樣的計畫想請教一下部長賴準總統所謂的雙語國家政策指的是哪雙語"},{"start":235.37,"end":250.58,"text":"跟委員報告這個計畫的名稱後來應該說正確的再做一些調整不是用雙語國家是國家雙語政策所以這個新聞應該要下架要改是不是我不知道這個可能是新聞啦就是說目前是國家雙語政策因為這個確實有一個比較討論後所訂出來的好沒有關係"},{"start":258.766,"end":263.31,"text":"我想我們的這個當時行政院長接下來要變總統希望我們所有的政策喊出來都是有憑有據不要改來改去我們來看這個實際上有很多這種打臉的現象我們就不多說啦其實所謂雙語指的是華語或英語這一種說法是完全與法無拒的"},{"start":278.224,"end":297.942,"text":"實際上我們完全沒有在法律中明定所謂的官方語言依據國家語言發展法我們的語言指的是臺灣固有族群使用的自然語言及臺灣手語而且要做很多的多語言之間的平衡做一個多元的平衡今天我們做這樣的一個說法說要雙語要英語"},{"start":301.445,"end":315.99,"text":"南寶會不會未來又有新的院長一聲令下我們的雙語或多語的政策又要換一個名字又要360度的大轉彎我們來看一下自從我們先不管就說好那既然已經執行了107年宣布執行到現在6年7年67年"},{"start":320.951,"end":341.961,"text":"我們呢為了達成雙語國家目標已經投入多少錢我覺得這個真的是不只是指數成長這是十倍百倍的增長從幾千萬到幾十億我們來看一下我們已經投入了一百億我們來看看現場的反應如何根據親子天下的雜誌全台有高達四成的公立國中小尚未實施雙語課程22個縣市當中有八成的縣市認為本國資質不足"},{"start":347.944,"end":373.185,"text":"31%的縣市認為中央經費補助不足22%的人說第一線教師反對這個政策當時賴清德院長的一句話讓教育部6年狠砸超過百億來推行雙語政策但是我們來看再看這個我們的全球英語能力指標只是略高於全球平均但是在111個國家及地區當中屬於中間偏後我們再看"},{"start":374.506,"end":388.831,"text":"這是你們的報告2030雙語政策計畫教育部推出的可量化的經濟效應我們那時候是擦亮眼睛說我是不是看錯了創造工作機會0帶動公民企業投資0"},{"start":391.421,"end":415.681,"text":"這還不是全部不只英語成績不見起色根據去年公布的應該說去年公布2021的台灣參加第4屆的這個國際閱讀數量調查首度出現小四學生中文閱讀能力下滑的現象這個真的是我們要看到的嗎我們再來看金語已經現在變成我們這種交作業的這個常見的狀況了再來還有"},{"start":420.465,"end":434.747,"text":"這個過去9年的國中會考每年都有近3000到7000名考生放棄寫國語的作文考0分的人數遠遠超過滿級分的人數我這樣講完還有啦但我們就不多說我們花了6年100多億"},{"start":435.708,"end":437.529,"text":"這個說法是不是有點不太公平啊?您可以回應一下?"},{"start":458.855,"end":473.561,"text":"委員現在都還在持續進行的過程那剛才我要跟委員報告的是我要講到一個很關鍵的剛才委員引雜誌的報導裡面其實我對外也都說這樣說明教育部是穩健的在往前"},{"start":474.121,"end":474.561,"text":"我幫你總結啦就是說才沒成功之前都說時間還不夠長啦齁"},{"start":502.845,"end":519.147,"text":"然後有人說有問題就指標不對如果是媒體報導就是說媒體的報導沒關係我問你下一題部長您要卸任排除政治壓力單純從您的良心從一個教育工作者的心態角度來看你認為政府的雙贏政策還要繼續推行嗎"},{"start":520.248,"end":522.671,"text":"委員要穩健推行 不是照鏡啦 我要講的是這個一百億還不夠照 還不 還是穩健是吧從三千萬四千萬直接跳十億以上 再來三四十億喔不是 委員我一向務實推動教育工作你經費照鏡啊 成果怎麼沒有照鏡呢"},{"start":538.268,"end":543.53,"text":"那經費也是後面因為有前瞻計畫能夠讓一些師資我講的是外籍的師資能夠補充這個部分並不是8年10年通通以這個經費好 謝謝部長我為什麼現在要跟您做這樣的互動是說這個交換的這個時期很重要如果您真的覺得哪裡做得不夠好哪裡需要檢討或雙語政策真的應該要調整"},{"start":566.937,"end":585.846,"text":"真的希望您可以來了解一下我們來看一下接下來我們給您看一個影片七年前的政策現在真的不一定要照樣推行請您重新考慮這今年3月18號我們在談校園霸凌的議題的時候部長您的回應我們來看第一段影片部長用流利的英語來回應"},{"start":587.006,"end":592.75,"text":"這完全是AI直接將您講的話用您的聲音翻成英文而且還對上了嘴形這個現在還需要幾秒鐘的時間運算接下來可以完全的即時運作大齡如果從國際的來講他有他的定義啦但孩子感受到的"},{"start":614.827,"end":627.057,"text":"我想大家可能中文聽很多我們來看一次英文感覺一下我想連部長自己可能都會很難相信這個背景的音樂都還可以合成回去我們來看一下這還不是全部現在META剛發表的SIMLESS COMMUNICATION完全可以RULE TIME"},{"start":637.606,"end":659.73,"text":"我直接跟別人開會直接跟別人講話我教別人說話我對談我一百國以上的語言可以即時的可以說出去給人家聽我們現在還要雙雙雙什麼語我們還要學一個英文搞到一百多億嗎我誠心的建議齁未來在教導學生多種語言的時候不要再侷限於英語甚至應該要討論包含學習如何跟AI對話"},{"start":662.671,"end":662.831,"text":"葛如鈞"},{"start":686.503,"end":701.949,"text":"這些用語可能也都不是臺灣認定的華語希望未來可以有更多的資料全面開放給國會會臺德來使用我們才能夠讓AI有完整的繁體的中文化用數位的工具讓華語在全球發揚光大最後謝謝主席給我時間AI能夠帶來幫助但是也有可能侵害學生的權益請教一下部長"},{"start":708.271,"end":735.516,"text":"目前教育部對於高中生使用AI工具製作學習歷程檔案或者備審資料的態度和立場是什麼現在大家可能有很多的升學升請的過程在進行老師在看資料學生有沒有責任在底下標註我有使用AI還是可以不用我們的老師是不是就要全盤盡信呢是完全禁止使用還是一定要進行揭露"},{"start":736.016,"end":747.689,"text":"有沒有什麼前提有沒有什麼條件您是不是現在趕快來提出說明一下是有條件的接受還是絕對不接受學生使用AI工具製作學習歷程檔案或備成資料可不可以請提出"},{"start":751.053,"end":756.017,"text":"委員剛才講到以AI或數位科技學足語言的學習我非常贊同在上個禮拜我主持我們一個本國語言推動會那個裡頭各項足語、客語、中文的轉換因為現在也就是在請剛才委員所提到的幾個話部會"},{"start":770.45,"end":771.11,"text":"要不要揭露很重要但可以不要揭露嗎"},{"start":795.043,"end":796.464,"text":"這個問題很重要不然變成老師只是在評哪一個學生比較有錢可以用比較厲害的AI來做內容"},{"start":819.534,"end":819.554,"text":"謝謝 謝謝兩位"},{"start":849.4,"end":853.291,"text":"本期先宣布我們在吳佩儀委員質詢完畢之後我們就先休息"}]}}}}