{"id":152451,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152451","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d7e25ee5d31e1734ffe9ea99d649a2b5ab4a2946638eec232d94006c6d412c4d00481c2c471a13375ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"11:29:01 - 11:46:11","影片長度":"00:17:10","會議時間":"2024-05-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n(一)委員王育敏等21人擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)國民黨黨團擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一)委員王育敏等18人擬具「勞動基準法第五十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)國民黨黨團擬具「勞動基準法第五十四條及第八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查\n(一)委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員王育敏等18人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第九條及第二十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員馬文君等22人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員邱若華等20人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第七條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n【一、(三)及(四)案：如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【三、(四)案：如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【討論事項綜合詢答】\n【5月13日、15日及16日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-13","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-16"},"duration":1030,"end_time":"2024-05-13T11:46:11+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-13T11:29:01+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":845,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（11時29分）主席、各位，大家午安。是不是先請許部長？"],["主席：好，請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：林委員好。"],["林委員淑芬：今天可能是部長最後一次前來列席……","不對，還有這個禮拜三，所以先跟你祝福。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝。"],["林委員淑芬：不過我今天還是要先來談一下健全就業安全體系的問題，我是要談就保法。我們知道就業保險法從2003年開始上路，施行到現在，經歷了兩次重大的危機，就是2008年的金融海嘯和COVID-19的疫情。勞動部認為就業保險法是不是有需要擴大適用對象檢討的必要？"],["許部長銘春：我覺得都可以來討論。"],["林委員淑芬：我是問你有沒有這個必要？我跟你討論的第一個就是擴大納保對象，我們講這個是因為就業保險法的立法意旨，開宗明義就講「為提昇勞工就業技能，促進就業，保障勞工職業訓練及失業一定期間之基本生活」，所以這個很重要。我們看了一下，從就業保險投保單位及人數統計月報，113年2月底納保人數總計730萬9,329人，但是比對人力資源運用調查，譬如112年年底的統計資料，受僱者人數計有930萬6,000人，其中私人僱用者827萬8,000人，所以這樣子來算，就保法依法法定涵蓋的對象，涵蓋率大概88.29%，這種狀況顯示受僱者仍然有11%是被排除就業保險安全網之外，而且我們看到經歷了COVID-19的疫情，透過特別紓困條例提供的就業安全措施，你們已經有經驗了，其實你們排除了自營作業者和65歲以上的勞工，這一個缺失在COVID-19的時候，你們變成無法救濟他們。"],["許部長銘春：我們那時候的補貼是針對無一定雇主跟自營作業者、職業工會，但我記得那時候，只要他有投入災保、有加災保，都有適用。"],["林委員淑芬：你的補貼不是用就保，你是就業安定基金啦！"],["許部長銘春：沒有，那個是特別預算，職業工會那個是我們的。"],["林委員淑芬：對啦，職業工會是特別預算啦，但是你們的……"],["許部長銘春：其他的部分是用就安。"],["林委員淑芬：對啦，你們的僱用安定措施是來自於就業安定基金啦！"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["林委員淑芬：我現在講的是就保，我第一個跟你討論的是要擴大納保對象，第一個我們就先從要納入所謂的經濟依賴型的自營作業者，關於經濟依賴型，西班牙制定了一個自營作業者法，他有訂定一個經濟依賴型的自營作業者。他指涉的是，習慣而且主要為特定自然人或法人提供勞務，而且該客戶所獲得的報酬達到其經濟或專業活動總收入75%以上的人，這個在德國就是類勞工，在西班牙講的就是經濟依賴型的自營作業者，他在經濟上高度的倚賴於特定的客戶。我們為什麼要講這個？是因為在COVID-19期間，其實你也有看到一些困難、一些問題，當時就在講有必要要檢討將自營作業者納入就業安全網，才不會在COVID-19期間發現制度沒有辦法保障、接不起他們，所以才用安定基金去接。在西班牙是這樣子，他們有定額，然後自願性加入的條款，提供經濟活動上非自願停止的保障，在這種狀況裡面，由他們自行決定要不要加入，而且請領給付的期限或者是承諾簽署個人將積極尋求就業，接受合適的工作，並參與公立就業服務機構提供的特定獎勵、資訊、職業訓練和就業推介為要件。所以針對這個部分，部長或者是部裡面有什麼看法？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，的確經歷COVID-19之後，我們發現這一塊是必須要去做一些討論，看有怎樣一個法制體系可以接住他，所以您剛提的……"],["林委員淑芬：自營作業者，但是是屬於經濟依賴型的……"],["許部長銘春：對，要有一些架構、一些條件……"],["林委員淑芬：他不是所有的自營作業者，是經濟依賴型的……"],["許部長銘春：對，我知道。"],["林委員淑芬：他的報酬收入來自於特定客戶75%以上的依賴度。"],["許部長銘春：因為過去的困難是在於失業的認定，如果像這種經濟依賴型會比較容易去判斷。"],["林委員淑芬：所以這個應該可以檢討？"],["許部長銘春：我是覺得可以檢討。"],["林委員淑芬：好，第二個擴大納保的對象就是跟我們今天講的有關，當我們在講要取消掉法定的強制退休年齡，不得強迫65歲以上的勞工退休，在這種狀況裡面，我們看到推動中高齡再就業，如果要持續開發65歲以上的勞動力，我們也應該要提供就業安全的保障啊！所以在這種狀況裡面，65歲持續就業的，65歲還在上班，其實他某種程度對於經濟上的需求，相對倚賴這個工作的程度是高的，等於沒有工作，他的經濟就受衝擊了，所以他也需要非自願性離職時的薪資填補需求啊！也要給他就業安全的保障啊！所以在這種狀況裡面，你們大概也都討論過，你們也有共識要取消65歲的年齡限制了，但唯一你們討論的是，如果65歲了，已經有請領勞保老年年金給付的人，他的核算方法、給付的方法要怎麼算吧？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["林委員淑芬：大家都有共識，你要鼓勵勞參率再更高，就業的年齡不要限制等等，所以你要有配套，當然失業給付也是其中一個配套，如果65歲以上可以納保，也可以請領失業給付，那你們目前研議的方向是怎麼樣？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，其實這個部分，我們那時候討論，像日本是只發給一次性的失業給付，就不是六個月這樣子。像韓國……"],["林委員淑芬：您是說已經請領勞保老年給付之後？"],["許部長銘春：對，他如果失業，我們就給他一次性的給付。"],["林委員淑芬：好，韓國是怎麼樣？"],["許部長銘春：韓國是只給他促進就業措施，他是沒有給失業給付。"],["林委員淑芬：好，我覺得這個值得討論，沒關係，你們再去討論，因為我覺得這個議題一定要看到。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["林委員淑芬：我們大家講65歲的門檻要拿掉的時候，我們當然要給他就業安全的配套，這是擴大納保對象。另外一個是我們覺得應該檢討不合理的給付規定，其中一個就是縮短失業給付等待期14天改成7天，因為我們現在在講，你必須要有14天的等待期，確定你是無法推介就業或安排職業訓練，你真的是努力了，這14天等一下。但是我現在要告訴部長，14天等待期之前，要請領失業給付的第一關就是非自願性離職的，而且他本來就要到公立就業服務機關辦理求職登記日，他已經有去辦理了，你還叫他等14天，你覺得14天沒什麼，可是對很多人來講，這14天的生活衝擊很大的也有，因為第一個，他是非自願性離職的，然後在這種狀況裡面，失業給付本來要發揮的就是急難、救急，它是一個及時雨，要幫助勞工度過這個難關，更何況ILO促進就業和失業保護公約第十八條第一項有講到，如果成員國的立法規定在全失業的情況下，指有在等待期，期滿後才能開始支付津貼，但這一個等待期不得超過7天。ILO講的是如果要等待期，其實不能超過7天。而我們現在就業失業給付的等待期是14天，比ILO建議的還要嚴格。如果你去參考日本雇用保險的失業津貼，非自願離職多數不可抗力的理由離職，離職後，日本也是7天，當然日本比我們更優渥，因為他們還有自願離職的給付，但我們今天暫時就不討論這個，所以部長，這個有沒有檢討的空間呢？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，有，我們其實內部有討論，認為應該是要再縮短，比照ILO的標準。"],["林委員淑芬：很好，可以做得到。","那我再講第二個要降低的不合理的給付規定，就是要降低啟動延長失業給付門檻，現在失業給付是6個月嘛！"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["林委員淑芬：45歲以上還有身障門檻低的，大概延長給付到9個月，當然我們現在規定最長是12個月，不過條件比較嚴苛，但是45歲以下的，我們就規定必須要條件比較嚴格，就是就保失業率再加上中央主計機關發布失業率，連續4個月未降低，才能領到9個月，或者是你要領12個月的話，必須就保失業率再加上……就保失業率大家都要到3.3%以上嘛！然後再加上中央主計機關發布失業率連續8個月沒有降低，這個外部條件都符合了，才能讓你延長領到9個月或12個月。","我們查了一下，以勞動部112年2月14號交付立法院的就業保險延長失業給付機制的改進方案來看，你們認為因為財務安定性還有就保資源的運用順序，就是以促進就業優先於延長失業給付為原則，所以在這方面，你們認為應該還是要維持原狀，看起來你們還是認為要維持原狀，你們所持的理由是如果讓延長失業給付可以領到9個月、12個月的話，會影響失業勞工的求職意願，會造成失業勞工減緩找工作的動力。","我們今天也要再提醒部長，最後一個要提醒的就是，就業保的給付除了失業給付，還有一個其實是很不錯的，就是提早就業獎助津貼，制度上我們也提供了誘因，並不是說你繼續領、領越長越好，其實你早一點去就業、找到工作，我們也有津貼嘛！所以我們是希望提早就業津貼也有配套，你卻刻意讓延長失業給付的門檻這麼高，讓我們看得到吃不到，也很難發揮就業安定的政策效果，因為真的有人真的很難找工作，其實很多因素。","第二個理由，我要跟你討論的是就業保險失業率本身就是一個落後指標，你們要讓他領那9個月、12個月，都要看就業保險失業率，再加上社會的整體失業率。可是我們講就業保險失業率是一個落後指標，在COVID-19的時候，你們自己就深受其害、就知道了，我很久以前就跟你們說，減班休息、無薪假，你們這一個門檻，就業保險失業率要連續3個月達到2.2%以上太高，所以你們修正下降到1.1%，可是在COVID-19疫情的衝擊下，你們現在才發現連1%這樣的規定……因為它是落後指標嘛！來不及啟動受COVID-19衝擊的這些人，所以你們要提安心就業計畫，結果你們沒有法源、沒有辦法有錢來給他們，後來才變成說拿就業安定基金去紓困嘛！後來光是就這一點，你們把1%的啟動門檻也拿掉了，所以你們就改由僱用安定措施的諮詢會議去取代這幾percent的規定，比較有彈性嘛！同樣的，我們也是希望延長失業給付這樣子的條件和門檻應該要更有彈性，你一直把它綁在……","你都知道就業保險率是落後指標，而且是來不及反應，也來不及承接這一些失業的勞工所需要、生活上的衝擊，所以是不是也應該要一併的檢討？這樣的一個落後指標應該取消，而且更應該要彈性化一點，並且降低啟動延長失業給付的門檻，簡單的說，失業給付6個月要延長到9個月、延長到12個月，你現在的指標和門檻應該要檢討了，這樣子可不可以？"],["許部長銘春：謝謝委員，這個部分我們來檢討，我覺得應該要檢討。"],["林委員淑芬：你要走了，你要交給下一任的部長。"],["許部長銘春：可以，沒問題，列入交接事項。"],["林委員淑芬：業務單位……"],["許部長銘春：業務單位在這裡啦！"],["林委員淑芬：業務單位要記得，在這裡承諾的喔！65歲以上要納保，經濟依賴型的自營作業者也要納保，要縮短失業給付等待期14天變成7天，然後要降低啟動延長失業給付的門檻，就這四個。"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝委員。"],["林委員淑芬：要列為重點交接喔！"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["林委員淑芬：謝謝。"],["主席：好，我們委員會持續監督，謝謝林淑芬委員。接下來請牛煦庭委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":270,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-16","speakers":["王育敏","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","陳昭姿","林月琴","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王正旭","黃秀芳","林淑芬","牛煦庭","劉建國","陳培瑜","黃國昌","張智倫","李彥秀","邱志偉","陳瑩","楊曜","盧縣一"],"page_start":189,"meetingDate":["2024-05-13"],"gazette_id":"1134603","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134603_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查(一)委員王育敏等21人擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案、(二)國民黨黨\n團擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「工會法第四條\n及第六條條文修正草案」案、(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查(一)委員王育敏等18人擬具「勞動基準法第五十四條條文修正草案」案、(二)國民\n黨黨團擬具「勞動基準法第五十四條及第八十六條條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員郭昱晴\n等19人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員王育敏等18\n人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第九條及第二十九條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員馬文君\n等22人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第七條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員邱若華等20人擬\n具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第七條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1134603_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152451","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152451","tool":"pyannote","id":"152451-pyannote"},"job_id":"ZDI86YwdKelAv0Tz","queued_at":"2024-05-31 08:43:06","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 08:44:33","msg":"downloading 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\"我跟您討論第一個就是擴大納保對象。那我們講這個是因為這個就業保險的立法一旨一開中民意就講勞工的就業技能促進提升勞工的就業技能促進就業保障勞工職訓及失業一定期間的基本生活所以這個很重要\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 73.513, \"end\": 73.653, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 73.653, \"end\": 74.093, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 74.093, \"end\": 74.394, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 74.394, \"end\": 74.494, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 74.494, \"end\": 74.774, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 74.774, \"end\": 74.914, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 74.914, \"end\": 75.414, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"擴\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 75.414, \"end\": 76.255, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 76.255, \"end\": 76.835, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"象\", \"start\": 76.835, \"end\": 77.995, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 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\"業\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 93.004, \"end\": 93.144, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 93.144, \"end\": 93.384, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 93.384, \"end\": 93.724, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 93.724, \"end\": 93.884, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 93.884, \"end\": 94.044, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 94.044, \"end\": 94.224, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 94.224, \"end\": 94.504, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"活\", \"start\": 94.504, \"end\": 95.685, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 95.685, \"end\": 95.845, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 95.845, \"end\": 96.145, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 96.145, \"end\": 96.385, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 96.385, \"end\": 96.666, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 96.666, \"end\": 96.686, 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00:01:02,739\n國民黨黨團擬具《工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案》案從2003年開始上路施行到現在經歷了兩次的很重大的危機就是這個2008年的金融海嘯還有這個COVID-19的疫情那勞動部認為這個《工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案》是不是有需要擴大適用對象的檢討的必要\n\n4\n00:01:04,161 --> 00:01:05,225\n除此之外,是否有必要?\n\n5\n00:01:13,513 --> 00:01:36,686\n我跟您討論第一個就是擴大納保對象。那我們講這個是因為這個就業保險的立法一旨一開中民意就講勞工的就業技能促進提升勞工的就業技能促進就業保障勞工職訓及失業一定期間的基本生活所以這個很重要\n\n6\n00:01:37,446 --> 00:01:41,849\n那我們看了一下從這個就業保險投保單位及人數統計月報113年2月底納保人數總計7309,329人\n\n7\n00:01:54,278 --> 00:02:17,958\n但是呢比對人力資源運用調查比如112年年底的統計的資料受僱者人數既有930萬6千人那其中私人僱用者827萬8千人所以這樣子來算的話就保法依法法定涵蓋的這個對象涵蓋率大概88.29%\n\n8\n00:02:21,101 --> 00:02:23,742\n兼具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案\n\n9\n00:02:42,052 --> 00:03:09,528\n人排除了自營作業者和65歲以上的勞工這一個缺失在COVID-19的時候你們變成說無法救濟他們我們那時候那個補貼是針對無一定僱主跟自營作業者職業工會但我記得那時候只要他有投入債保有加債保的你的補貼不是用救保啦你是就業安定基金啦\n\n10\n00:03:12,152 --> 00:03:15,973\n僱用安定措施是來自於就業安定基金,那我現在講的是這個救保。\n\n11\n00:03:29,497 --> 00:03:33,359\n我第一個跟你討論就是要來擴大納保對象第一個我們就先從這個要納入所謂的經濟依賴型的自營作業者經濟依賴型的話如果從西班牙制定了一個自營作業者法他有訂定一個經濟依賴型的自營作業者\n\n12\n00:03:56,590 --> 00:03:59,733\n其中一人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑\n\n13\n00:04:16,391 --> 00:04:19,155\n兼具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n14\n00:04:32,524 --> 00:04:51,192\nμη在COVID-19期間其實也有看到一些困難一些問題當時就在講說有必要要檢討將自營作業者納入就業安全網才不會在COVID-19期間發現制度沒有辦法保障接不起他們所以才用這個安定基金去接\n\n15\n00:05:10,009 --> 00:05:35,111\n而且這個擬具的這個期限或者是說承諾簽署個人將積極尋求這個就業接受合適的工作並參與公立就業服務機構提供的特定獎勵資訊職業訓練和就業推薦為要件所以這個部分部長或者是我們部裡面有什麼看法?包委員\n\n16\n00:05:37,199 --> 00:05:37,359\n國民黨黨團擬具\n\n17\n00:06:13,797 --> 00:06:38,524\n但第二個擴大納保的對象就是跟我們今天講的有關的當我們在講說要取消掉這個法定的強制退休年齡然後不得這個強迫退休65歲以上的勞工那這種狀況裡面我們看到推動中高齡在就業如果要持續的開發65歲以上的這個勞動力那我們也應該要提供就業安全的保障啊\n\n18\n00:06:39,344 --> 00:07:00,211\n所以在這種狀況裡面65歲持續就業的他如果遇到你試試看65歲跟在上班的其實某種程度他在經濟上的對經濟上的這個需求其實相對的依賴這個工作的程度是高的因為他說沒辦法經濟就受衝擊啊\n\n19\n00:07:01,932 --> 00:07:30,741\n»:所以那也需要這個非自願性離職的時候的薪資填補的需求啊也要給他就業安全的保障啊所以在這種裡面其實針對你們大概也都討論過你們也有共識要取消65歲的年齡限制了但唯一你們討論的是說那如果65歲了已經有請領這個老保老年年金給付的人他的核算的方法給付的方法要怎麼算吧那你們\n\n20\n00:07:32,941 --> 00:07:56,666\n公視,勞參率要更高,就業年齡不要限制,所以你要配套啊,配套的話當然是失業給付也是其中一個配套啊。那這個65歲以上可以請領納保,也可以請領失業給付的話,那你們目前研議的方向是怎麼樣?\n\n21\n00:08:01,024 --> 00:08:26,809\n報告委員其實這個部分我們現在日本是我們那時候討論就是說像日本他是只發給一次性的失業給付他就不是六個月這樣子然後像韓國你說在已經請領老保老年給付之後對那他如果失業我們就給他一次性的給付那韓國是怎麼樣那韓國他是\n\n22\n00:08:28,031 --> 00:08:30,815\n兼具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案。\n\n23\n00:08:45,394 --> 00:09:11,284\n),委員彭大納保對象,另外一個是我們覺得應該檢討不合理的給付規定。其中一個就是縮短失業給付等待期14天改成7天。因為我們現在在講說你必須要14天的等待期,那確定你是無法推介就業或安排職業訓練,你真的是努力了,這14天等一下。\n\n24\n00:09:13,100 --> 00:09:41,891\n但是我現在要告訴你說部長14天等待期之前你要請你失業給付的第一關就是你是非自願性的離職的而且他本來就要到公立就業服務機關辦理求職登記日他已經有去辦理了那你還叫他等14天我是說現在因為你覺得14天沒什麼可是對很多人來講這14天的這個生活衝擊很大的也有\n\n25\n00:09:42,832 --> 00:09:43,537\n因為那第一個嗯\n\n26\n00:09:45,677 --> 00:10:10,034\n他是非自願性離職的啦。非自願性的離職然後在這種狀況裡面失業給付本來就要發揮的就是急難、救急他是一個及時雨那要幫助勞工度過這個難關那更何況ILO促進就業和失業保護的公約第18條第1項他有講喔謝謝\n\n27\n00:10:12,936 --> 00:10:26,122\n如果成員國的立法規定在全失業的情況下是有在等待期,期滿後才能開始支付津貼,但這個等待期不得超過7天。\n\n28\n00:10:28,423 --> 00:10:35,965\n而我們現在的就業失業給付的等待期14天比ILO建議的還要嚴格如果你去參考日本的僱傭保險的失業津貼非自願離職多數不可抗力的理由離職離職後日本也是7天當然日本比我們更優渥因為他們還有自願離職的給付\n\n29\n00:10:58,477 --> 00:11:23,215\n自願離職的給付但我們今天暫時就不討論這個所以這個部長這個有沒有檢討的空間呢?包括委員有我們其實內部有討論吶吼那認為說應該是要再縮短再縮短比照ILO很好標準吶好那可以做得到那我再講第二個要降低的這個不合理的給付的規定就是要降低啟動延長失業給付門檻現在失業給付是6個月嘛\n\n30\n00:11:28,298 --> 00:11:41,983\n之五歲以上還有身障可以自動門檻能低的大概延長給付到九個月。當然我們現在規定是最長是所有個月,但條件比較嚴苛。但是45歲以下的\n\n31\n00:11:46,445 --> 00:11:48,866\n),委員我們就規定說你必須要有條件比較嚴格就是你的這個舊保失業率再加上中央主計機關發布失業率連續4個月未降低才能領到9個月或者是你要領12個月的話必須舊保失業率\n\n32\n00:12:11,435 --> 00:12:28,155\n國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案件及中央組織機關發布事業率連續8個月沒有降低,這個外部條件都符合了,才能讓你延長領到9個月或12個月,所以\n\n33\n00:12:29,015 --> 00:12:31,017\n),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。\n\n34\n00:12:58,635 --> 00:13:15,862\n),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第16期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第16期社會福利及第六條條條文修正草案．立法院第17期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18\n\n35\n00:13:22,185 --> 00:13:43,027\n其始就業保險的給付除了失業給付還有一個其實是很不錯的就是提早就業獎助津貼制度上我們也提供了誘因並不是說你繼續領領月長月老其實我們你早一點的去就業找到工作我們也有津貼嘛\n\n36\n00:13:44,128 --> 00:14:12,529\n所以這個東西我們是希望說這個津貼講提早就業津貼也有配套所以你卻刻意讓這個延長失業給付的門檻這麼高讓我們看得到吃不到那也很難發揮就業安定的政策效果因為真的有人真的很難找工作了其實很多因素很多因素那第二個理由是說\n\n37\n00:14:14,111 --> 00:14:28,124\n我要跟您討論說就業保險失業率本身就是一個落後指標。你們要讓它0到9個月角12個月都要看就業保險失業率再加上社會的這個整體的失業率可是呢\n\n38\n00:14:55,663 --> 00:15:12,550\n人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六\n\n39\n00:15:19,813 --> 00:15:27,156\n),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具«工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案﹚立法院第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16\n\n40\n00:15:43,002 --> 00:16:03,159\n同樣的我們也是希望你說延長失業給付這樣子的條件和門檻也應該要更有彈性你一直把它綁在你都知道就業保險率是落後指標而且是來不及反映也來不及承接這一些失業的勞工所需要的生活上的衝擊\n\n41\n00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:21,388\n»:所以是不是也應該要一併的檢討這樣的一個落後指標應該取消而且更應該要彈性化一點那降低啟動延長失業給付的門檻簡單的說啦失業給付6個月要延長到9個月延長到12個月你現在的指標和門檻應該要檢討了這樣子可不可以謝謝委員這個部分我們來檢討我覺得應該要檢討\n\n42\n00:16:32,953 --> 00:16:37,996\n議員,你要走了,你要交給下一任的部長。業務單位要記得喔,在這裡承諾的喔。65歲以上要納保,經濟依賴型的這個自營作業者也要納保。然後這個要縮短失業給付14天變成7天喔。然後要降低啟動延長失業給付的門檻喔。\n\n43\n00:17:03,454 --> 00:17:06,777\n),國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6131\t12997\t主席,各位大家午安,是不是請我們許部長還有,先許部長好了。好,請許部長。另外好。保證,可能是只有一次,不然還有禮拜三。\n24544\t32949\t主委先跟你祝福啦。不過我今天還是要先來談一下這個健全就業安全的這個體系的問題。我是要談這個救保法。\n40133\t62739\t國民黨黨團擬具《工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案》案 從2003年開始上路施行到現在經歷了兩次的很重大的危機就是這個2008年的金融海嘯還有這個COVID-19的疫情那勞動部認為這個《工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案》是不是有需要擴大適用對象的檢討的必要\n64161\t65225\t除此之外,是否有必要?\n73513\t96686\t我跟您討論第一個就是擴大納保對象。那我們講這個是因為這個就業保險的立法一旨一開中民意就講勞工的就業技能促進提升勞工的就業技能促進就業保障勞工職訓及失業一定期間的基本生活所以這個很重要\n97446\t101849\t那我們看了一下從這個就業保險投保單位及人數統計月報113年2月底納保人數總計7309,329人\n114278\t137958\t但是呢比對人力資源運用調查比如112年年底的統計的資料受僱者人數既有930萬6千人那其中私人僱用者827萬8千人所以這樣子來算的話就保法依法法定涵蓋的這個對象涵蓋率大概88.29%\n141101\t143742\t兼具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 案 案\n162052\t189528\t人排除了自營作業者和65歲以上的勞工這一個缺失在COVID-19的時候你們變成說無法救濟他們我們那時候那個補貼是針對無一定僱主跟自營作業者職業工會但我記得那時候只要他有投入債保有加債保的你的補貼不是用救保啦你是就業安定基金啦\n192152\t195973\t僱用安定措施是來自於就業安定基金,那我現在講的是這個救保。\n209497\t213359\t我第一個跟你討論就是要來擴大納保對象第一個我們就先從這個要納入所謂的經濟依賴型的自營作業者經濟依賴型的話如果從西班牙制定了一個自營作業者法他有訂定一個經濟依賴型的自營作業者\n236590\t239733\t其中一人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑\n256391\t259155\t兼具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案。\n272524\t291192\tμη在COVID-19期間其實也有看到一些困難一些問題當時就在講說有必要要檢討將自營作業者納入就業安全網才不會在COVID-19期間發現制度沒有辦法保障接不起他們所以才用這個安定基金去接\n291852\t309889\t獎項獎項獎項\n310009\t335111\t而且這個擬具的這個期限或者是說承諾簽署個人將積極尋求這個就業接受合適的工作並參與公立就業服務機構提供的特定獎勵資訊職業訓練和就業推薦為要件所以這個部分部長或者是我們部裡面有什麼看法?包委員\n337199\t337359\t國民黨黨團擬具\n353899\t373797\t️ ️ ️ ️\n373797\t398524\t但第二個擴大納保的對象就是跟我們今天講的有關的當我們在講說要取消掉這個法定的強制退休年齡然後不得這個強迫退休65歲以上的勞工那這種狀況裡面我們看到推動中高齡在就業如果要持續的開發65歲以上的這個勞動力那我們也應該要提供就業安全的保障啊\n399344\t420211\t所以在這種狀況裡面65歲持續就業的他如果遇到你試試看65歲跟在上班的其實某種程度他在經濟上的對經濟上的這個需求其實相對的依賴這個工作的程度是高的因為他說沒辦法經濟就受衝擊啊\n421932\t450741\t»:所以那也需要這個非自願性離職的時候的薪資填補的需求啊也要給他就業安全的保障啊所以在這種裡面其實針對你們大概也都討論過你們也有共識要取消65歲的年齡限制了但唯一你們討論的是說那如果65歲了已經有請領這個老保老年年金給付的人他的核算的方法給付的方法要怎麼算吧那你們\n452941\t476666\t公視,勞參率要更高,就業年齡不要限制,所以你要配套啊,配套的話當然是失業給付也是其中一個配套啊。那這個65歲以上可以請領納保,也可以請領失業給付的話,那你們目前研議的方向是怎麼樣?\n481024\t506809\t報告委員其實這個部分我們現在日本是我們那時候討論就是說像日本他是只發給一次性的失業給付他就不是六個月這樣子然後像韓國你說在已經請領老保老年給付之後對那他如果失業我們就給他一次性的給付那韓國是怎麼樣那韓國他是\n508031\t510815\t兼具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 。\n525394\t551284\t),委員彭大納保對象,另外一個是我們覺得應該檢討不合理的給付規定。其中一個就是縮短失業給付等待期14天改成7天。因為我們現在在講說你必須要14天的等待期,那確定你是無法推介就業或安排職業訓練,你真的是努力了,這14天等一下。\n553100\t581891\t但是我現在要告訴你說部長14天等待期之前你要請你失業給付的第一關就是你是非自願性的離職的而且他本來就要到公立就業服務機關辦理求職登記日他已經有去辦理了那你還叫他等14天我是說現在因為你覺得14天沒什麼可是對很多人來講這14天的這個生活衝擊很大的也有\n582832\t583537\t因為那第一個 嗯\n585677\t610034\t他是非自願性離職的啦。非自願性的離職然後在這種狀況裡面失業給付本來就要發揮的就是急難、救急他是一個及時雨那要幫助勞工度過這個難關那更何況 ILO促進就業和失業保護的公約第18條第1項他有講喔謝謝\n612936\t626122\t如果成員國的立法規定在全失業的情況下是有在等待期,期滿後才能開始支付津貼,但這個等待期不得超過7天。\n628423\t635965\t而我們現在的就業失業給付的等待期14天比ILO建議的還要嚴格如果你去參考日本的僱傭保險的失業津貼非自願離職多數不可抗力的理由離職離職後日本也是7天當然日本比我們更優渥因為他們還有自願離職的給付\n658477\t683215\t自願離職的給付但我們今天暫時就不討論這個所以這個部長這個有沒有檢討的空間呢?包括委員有我們其實內部有討論吶吼那認為說應該是要再縮短再縮短比照ILO很好標準吶好那可以做得到那我再講第二個要降低的這個不合理的給付的規定就是要降低啟動延長失業給付門檻現在失業給付是6個月嘛\n688298\t701983\t之五歲以上還有身障可以自動門檻能低的大概延長給付到九個月。當然我們現在規定是最長是所有個月,但條件比較嚴苛。但是45歲以下的\n706445\t708866\t),委員我們就規定說你必須要有條件比較嚴格就是你的這個舊保失業率再加上中央主計機關發布失業率連續4個月未降低才能領到9個月或者是你要領12個月的話必須舊保失業率\n731435\t748155\t國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案件及中央組織機關發布事業率連續8個月沒有降低,這個外部條件都符合了,才能讓你延長領到9個月或12個月,所以\n749015\t751017\t), 委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。\n778635\t795862\t),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第16期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第16期社會福利及第六條條條文修正草案．立法院第17期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18\n802185\t823027\t其始就業保險的給付除了失業給付還有一個其實是很不錯的就是提早就業獎助津貼制度上我們也提供了誘因並不是說你繼續領領月長月老其實我們你早一點的去就業找到工作我們也有津貼嘛\n824128\t852529\t所以這個東西我們是希望說這個津貼講提早就業津貼也有配套所以你卻刻意讓這個延長失業給付的門檻這麼高讓我們看得到吃不到那也很難發揮就業安定的政策效果因為真的有人真的很難找工作了其實很多因素很多因素那第二個理由是說\n854111\t868124\t我要跟您討論說就業保險失業率本身就是一個落後指標。你們要讓它0到9個月角12個月都要看就業保險失業率再加上社會的這個整體的失業率可是呢\n868524\t895623\t獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲\n895663\t912550\t人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 案 ﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六\n919813\t927156\t),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具 «工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案﹚立法院第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16\n943002\t963159\t同樣的我們也是希望你說延長失業給付這樣子的條件和門檻也應該要更有彈性你一直把它綁在你都知道就業保險率是落後指標而且是來不及反映也來不及承接這一些失業的勞工所需要的生活上的衝擊\n965080\t981388\t»:所以是不是也應該要一併的檢討這樣的一個落後指標應該取消而且更應該要彈性化一點那降低啟動延長失業給付的門檻簡單的說啦失業給付6個月要延長到9個月延長到12個月你現在的指標和門檻應該要檢討了這樣子可不可以謝謝委員這個部分我們來檢討我覺得應該要檢討\n992953\t997996\t議員,你要走了,你要交給下一任的部長。業務單位要記得喔,在這裡承諾的喔。65歲以上要納保,經濟依賴型的這個自營作業者也要納保。然後這個要縮短失業給付14天變成7天喔。然後要降低啟動延長失業給付的門檻喔。\n1023454\t1026777\t), 國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 案\n","txt":"主席,各位大家午安,是不是請我們許部長還有,先許部長好了。好,請許部長。另外好。保證,可能是只有一次,不然還有禮拜三。\n主委先跟你祝福啦。不過我今天還是要先來談一下這個健全就業安全的這個體系的問題。我是要談這個救保法。\n國民黨黨團擬具《工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案》案 從2003年開始上路施行到現在經歷了兩次的很重大的危機就是這個2008年的金融海嘯還有這個COVID-19的疫情那勞動部認為這個《工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案》是不是有需要擴大適用對象的檢討的必要\n除此之外,是否有必要?\n我跟您討論第一個就是擴大納保對象。那我們講這個是因為這個就業保險的立法一旨一開中民意就講勞工的就業技能促進提升勞工的就業技能促進就業保障勞工職訓及失業一定期間的基本生活所以這個很重要\n那我們看了一下從這個就業保險投保單位及人數統計月報113年2月底納保人數總計7309,329人\n但是呢比對人力資源運用調查比如112年年底的統計的資料受僱者人數既有930萬6千人那其中私人僱用者827萬8千人所以這樣子來算的話就保法依法法定涵蓋的這個對象涵蓋率大概88.29%\n兼具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 案 案\n人排除了自營作業者和65歲以上的勞工這一個缺失在COVID-19的時候你們變成說無法救濟他們我們那時候那個補貼是針對無一定僱主跟自營作業者職業工會但我記得那時候只要他有投入債保有加債保的你的補貼不是用救保啦你是就業安定基金啦\n僱用安定措施是來自於就業安定基金,那我現在講的是這個救保。\n我第一個跟你討論就是要來擴大納保對象第一個我們就先從這個要納入所謂的經濟依賴型的自營作業者經濟依賴型的話如果從西班牙制定了一個自營作業者法他有訂定一個經濟依賴型的自營作業者\n其中一人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑\n兼具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案。\nμη在COVID-19期間其實也有看到一些困難一些問題當時就在講說有必要要檢討將自營作業者納入就業安全網才不會在COVID-19期間發現制度沒有辦法保障接不起他們所以才用這個安定基金去接\n獎項獎項獎項\n而且這個擬具的這個期限或者是說承諾簽署個人將積極尋求這個就業接受合適的工作並參與公立就業服務機構提供的特定獎勵資訊職業訓練和就業推薦為要件所以這個部分部長或者是我們部裡面有什麼看法?包委員\n國民黨黨團擬具\n️ ️ ️ ️\n但第二個擴大納保的對象就是跟我們今天講的有關的當我們在講說要取消掉這個法定的強制退休年齡然後不得這個強迫退休65歲以上的勞工那這種狀況裡面我們看到推動中高齡在就業如果要持續的開發65歲以上的這個勞動力那我們也應該要提供就業安全的保障啊\n所以在這種狀況裡面65歲持續就業的他如果遇到你試試看65歲跟在上班的其實某種程度他在經濟上的對經濟上的這個需求其實相對的依賴這個工作的程度是高的因為他說沒辦法經濟就受衝擊啊\n»:所以那也需要這個非自願性離職的時候的薪資填補的需求啊也要給他就業安全的保障啊所以在這種裡面其實針對你們大概也都討論過你們也有共識要取消65歲的年齡限制了但唯一你們討論的是說那如果65歲了已經有請領這個老保老年年金給付的人他的核算的方法給付的方法要怎麼算吧那你們\n公視,勞參率要更高,就業年齡不要限制,所以你要配套啊,配套的話當然是失業給付也是其中一個配套啊。那這個65歲以上可以請領納保,也可以請領失業給付的話,那你們目前研議的方向是怎麼樣?\n報告委員其實這個部分我們現在日本是我們那時候討論就是說像日本他是只發給一次性的失業給付他就不是六個月這樣子然後像韓國你說在已經請領老保老年給付之後對那他如果失業我們就給他一次性的給付那韓國是怎麼樣那韓國他是\n兼具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 。\n),委員彭大納保對象,另外一個是我們覺得應該檢討不合理的給付規定。其中一個就是縮短失業給付等待期14天改成7天。因為我們現在在講說你必須要14天的等待期,那確定你是無法推介就業或安排職業訓練,你真的是努力了,這14天等一下。\n但是我現在要告訴你說部長14天等待期之前你要請你失業給付的第一關就是你是非自願性的離職的而且他本來就要到公立就業服務機關辦理求職登記日他已經有去辦理了那你還叫他等14天我是說現在因為你覺得14天沒什麼可是對很多人來講這14天的這個生活衝擊很大的也有\n因為那第一個 嗯\n他是非自願性離職的啦。非自願性的離職然後在這種狀況裡面失業給付本來就要發揮的就是急難、救急他是一個及時雨那要幫助勞工度過這個難關那更何況 ILO促進就業和失業保護的公約第18條第1項他有講喔謝謝\n如果成員國的立法規定在全失業的情況下是有在等待期,期滿後才能開始支付津貼,但這個等待期不得超過7天。\n而我們現在的就業失業給付的等待期14天比ILO建議的還要嚴格如果你去參考日本的僱傭保險的失業津貼非自願離職多數不可抗力的理由離職離職後日本也是7天當然日本比我們更優渥因為他們還有自願離職的給付\n自願離職的給付但我們今天暫時就不討論這個所以這個部長這個有沒有檢討的空間呢?包括委員有我們其實內部有討論吶吼那認為說應該是要再縮短再縮短比照ILO很好標準吶好那可以做得到那我再講第二個要降低的這個不合理的給付的規定就是要降低啟動延長失業給付門檻現在失業給付是6個月嘛\n之五歲以上還有身障可以自動門檻能低的大概延長給付到九個月。當然我們現在規定是最長是所有個月,但條件比較嚴苛。但是45歲以下的\n),委員我們就規定說你必須要有條件比較嚴格就是你的這個舊保失業率再加上中央主計機關發布失業率連續4個月未降低才能領到9個月或者是你要領12個月的話必須舊保失業率\n國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案件及中央組織機關發布事業率連續8個月沒有降低,這個外部條件都符合了,才能讓你延長領到9個月或12個月,所以\n), 委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。\n),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第16期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第16期社會福利及第六條條條文修正草案．立法院第17期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18\n其始就業保險的給付除了失業給付還有一個其實是很不錯的就是提早就業獎助津貼制度上我們也提供了誘因並不是說你繼續領領月長月老其實我們你早一點的去就業找到工作我們也有津貼嘛\n所以這個東西我們是希望說這個津貼講提早就業津貼也有配套所以你卻刻意讓這個延長失業給付的門檻這麼高讓我們看得到吃不到那也很難發揮就業安定的政策效果因為真的有人真的很難找工作了其實很多因素很多因素那第二個理由是說\n我要跟您討論說就業保險失業率本身就是一個落後指標。你們要讓它0到9個月角12個月都要看就業保險失業率再加上社會的這個整體的失業率可是呢\n獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲\n人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 案 ﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六\n),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具 «工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案﹚立法院第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16\n同樣的我們也是希望你說延長失業給付這樣子的條件和門檻也應該要更有彈性你一直把它綁在你都知道就業保險率是落後指標而且是來不及反映也來不及承接這一些失業的勞工所需要的生活上的衝擊\n»:所以是不是也應該要一併的檢討這樣的一個落後指標應該取消而且更應該要彈性化一點那降低啟動延長失業給付的門檻簡單的說啦失業給付6個月要延長到9個月延長到12個月你現在的指標和門檻應該要檢討了這樣子可不可以謝謝委員這個部分我們來檢討我覺得應該要檢討\n議員,你要走了,你要交給下一任的部長。業務單位要記得喔,在這裡承諾的喔。65歲以上要納保,經濟依賴型的這個自營作業者也要納保。然後這個要縮短失業給付14天變成7天喔。然後要降低啟動延長失業給付的門檻喔。\n), 國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 案\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.131 --> 00:12.997\n主席,各位大家午安,是不是請我們許部長還有,先許部長好了。好,請許部長。另外好。保證,可能是只有一次,不然還有禮拜三。\n\n00:24.544 --> 00:32.949\n主委先跟你祝福啦。不過我今天還是要先來談一下這個健全就業安全的這個體系的問題。我是要談這個救保法。\n\n00:40.133 --> 01:02.739\n國民黨黨團擬具《工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案》案從2003年開始上路施行到現在經歷了兩次的很重大的危機就是這個2008年的金融海嘯還有這個COVID-19的疫情那勞動部認為這個《工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案》是不是有需要擴大適用對象的檢討的必要\n\n01:04.161 --> 01:05.225\n除此之外,是否有必要?\n\n01:13.513 --> 01:36.686\n我跟您討論第一個就是擴大納保對象。那我們講這個是因為這個就業保險的立法一旨一開中民意就講勞工的就業技能促進提升勞工的就業技能促進就業保障勞工職訓及失業一定期間的基本生活所以這個很重要\n\n01:37.446 --> 01:41.849\n那我們看了一下從這個就業保險投保單位及人數統計月報113年2月底納保人數總計7309,329人\n\n01:54.278 --> 02:17.958\n但是呢比對人力資源運用調查比如112年年底的統計的資料受僱者人數既有930萬6千人那其中私人僱用者827萬8千人所以這樣子來算的話就保法依法法定涵蓋的這個對象涵蓋率大概88.29%\n\n02:21.101 --> 02:23.742\n兼具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案\n\n02:42.052 --> 03:09.528\n人排除了自營作業者和65歲以上的勞工這一個缺失在COVID-19的時候你們變成說無法救濟他們我們那時候那個補貼是針對無一定僱主跟自營作業者職業工會但我記得那時候只要他有投入債保有加債保的你的補貼不是用救保啦你是就業安定基金啦\n\n03:12.152 --> 03:15.973\n僱用安定措施是來自於就業安定基金,那我現在講的是這個救保。\n\n03:29.497 --> 03:33.359\n我第一個跟你討論就是要來擴大納保對象第一個我們就先從這個要納入所謂的經濟依賴型的自營作業者經濟依賴型的話如果從西班牙制定了一個自營作業者法他有訂定一個經濟依賴型的自營作業者\n\n03:56.590 --> 03:59.733\n其中一人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑\n\n04:16.391 --> 04:19.155\n兼具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n04:32.524 --> 04:51.192\nμη在COVID-19期間其實也有看到一些困難一些問題當時就在講說有必要要檢討將自營作業者納入就業安全網才不會在COVID-19期間發現制度沒有辦法保障接不起他們所以才用這個安定基金去接\n\n05:10.009 --> 05:35.111\n而且這個擬具的這個期限或者是說承諾簽署個人將積極尋求這個就業接受合適的工作並參與公立就業服務機構提供的特定獎勵資訊職業訓練和就業推薦為要件所以這個部分部長或者是我們部裡面有什麼看法?包委員\n\n05:37.199 --> 05:37.359\n國民黨黨團擬具\n\n06:13.797 --> 06:38.524\n但第二個擴大納保的對象就是跟我們今天講的有關的當我們在講說要取消掉這個法定的強制退休年齡然後不得這個強迫退休65歲以上的勞工那這種狀況裡面我們看到推動中高齡在就業如果要持續的開發65歲以上的這個勞動力那我們也應該要提供就業安全的保障啊\n\n06:39.344 --> 07:00.211\n所以在這種狀況裡面65歲持續就業的他如果遇到你試試看65歲跟在上班的其實某種程度他在經濟上的對經濟上的這個需求其實相對的依賴這個工作的程度是高的因為他說沒辦法經濟就受衝擊啊\n\n07:01.932 --> 07:30.741\n»:所以那也需要這個非自願性離職的時候的薪資填補的需求啊也要給他就業安全的保障啊所以在這種裡面其實針對你們大概也都討論過你們也有共識要取消65歲的年齡限制了但唯一你們討論的是說那如果65歲了已經有請領這個老保老年年金給付的人他的核算的方法給付的方法要怎麼算吧那你們\n\n07:32.941 --> 07:56.666\n公視,勞參率要更高,就業年齡不要限制,所以你要配套啊,配套的話當然是失業給付也是其中一個配套啊。那這個65歲以上可以請領納保,也可以請領失業給付的話,那你們目前研議的方向是怎麼樣?\n\n08:01.024 --> 08:26.809\n報告委員其實這個部分我們現在日本是我們那時候討論就是說像日本他是只發給一次性的失業給付他就不是六個月這樣子然後像韓國你說在已經請領老保老年給付之後對那他如果失業我們就給他一次性的給付那韓國是怎麼樣那韓國他是\n\n08:28.031 --> 08:30.815\n兼具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案。\n\n08:45.394 --> 09:11.284\n),委員彭大納保對象,另外一個是我們覺得應該檢討不合理的給付規定。其中一個就是縮短失業給付等待期14天改成7天。因為我們現在在講說你必須要14天的等待期,那確定你是無法推介就業或安排職業訓練,你真的是努力了,這14天等一下。\n\n09:13.100 --> 09:41.891\n但是我現在要告訴你說部長14天等待期之前你要請你失業給付的第一關就是你是非自願性的離職的而且他本來就要到公立就業服務機關辦理求職登記日他已經有去辦理了那你還叫他等14天我是說現在因為你覺得14天沒什麼可是對很多人來講這14天的這個生活衝擊很大的也有\n\n09:42.832 --> 09:43.537\n因為那第一個嗯\n\n09:45.677 --> 10:10.034\n他是非自願性離職的啦。非自願性的離職然後在這種狀況裡面失業給付本來就要發揮的就是急難、救急他是一個及時雨那要幫助勞工度過這個難關那更何況ILO促進就業和失業保護的公約第18條第1項他有講喔謝謝\n\n10:12.936 --> 10:26.122\n如果成員國的立法規定在全失業的情況下是有在等待期,期滿後才能開始支付津貼,但這個等待期不得超過7天。\n\n10:28.423 --> 10:35.965\n而我們現在的就業失業給付的等待期14天比ILO建議的還要嚴格如果你去參考日本的僱傭保險的失業津貼非自願離職多數不可抗力的理由離職離職後日本也是7天當然日本比我們更優渥因為他們還有自願離職的給付\n\n10:58.477 --> 11:23.215\n自願離職的給付但我們今天暫時就不討論這個所以這個部長這個有沒有檢討的空間呢?包括委員有我們其實內部有討論吶吼那認為說應該是要再縮短再縮短比照ILO很好標準吶好那可以做得到那我再講第二個要降低的這個不合理的給付的規定就是要降低啟動延長失業給付門檻現在失業給付是6個月嘛\n\n11:28.298 --> 11:41.983\n之五歲以上還有身障可以自動門檻能低的大概延長給付到九個月。當然我們現在規定是最長是所有個月,但條件比較嚴苛。但是45歲以下的\n\n11:46.445 --> 11:48.866\n),委員我們就規定說你必須要有條件比較嚴格就是你的這個舊保失業率再加上中央主計機關發布失業率連續4個月未降低才能領到9個月或者是你要領12個月的話必須舊保失業率\n\n12:11.435 --> 12:28.155\n國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案件及中央組織機關發布事業率連續8個月沒有降低,這個外部條件都符合了,才能讓你延長領到9個月或12個月,所以\n\n12:29.015 --> 12:31.017\n),委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。\n\n12:58.635 --> 13:15.862\n),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第16期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第16期社會福利及第六條條條文修正草案．立法院第17期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18\n\n13:22.185 --> 13:43.027\n其始就業保險的給付除了失業給付還有一個其實是很不錯的就是提早就業獎助津貼制度上我們也提供了誘因並不是說你繼續領領月長月老其實我們你早一點的去就業找到工作我們也有津貼嘛\n\n13:44.128 --> 14:12.529\n所以這個東西我們是希望說這個津貼講提早就業津貼也有配套所以你卻刻意讓這個延長失業給付的門檻這麼高讓我們看得到吃不到那也很難發揮就業安定的政策效果因為真的有人真的很難找工作了其實很多因素很多因素那第二個理由是說\n\n14:14.111 --> 14:28.124\n我要跟您討論說就業保險失業率本身就是一個落後指標。你們要讓它0到9個月角12個月都要看就業保險失業率再加上社會的這個整體的失業率可是呢\n\n14:55.663 --> 15:12.550\n人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第四條及第六\n\n15:19.813 --> 15:27.156\n),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具«工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案﹚立法院第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16\n\n15:43.002 --> 16:03.159\n同樣的我們也是希望你說延長失業給付這樣子的條件和門檻也應該要更有彈性你一直把它綁在你都知道就業保險率是落後指標而且是來不及反映也來不及承接這一些失業的勞工所需要的生活上的衝擊\n\n16:05.080 --> 16:21.388\n»:所以是不是也應該要一併的檢討這樣的一個落後指標應該取消而且更應該要彈性化一點那降低啟動延長失業給付的門檻簡單的說啦失業給付6個月要延長到9個月延長到12個月你現在的指標和門檻應該要檢討了這樣子可不可以謝謝委員這個部分我們來檢討我覺得應該要檢討\n\n16:32.953 --> 16:37.996\n議員,你要走了,你要交給下一任的部長。業務單位要記得喔,在這裡承諾的喔。65歲以上要納保,經濟依賴型的這個自營作業者也要納保。然後這個要縮短失業給付14天變成7天喔。然後要降低啟動延長失業給付的門檻喔。\n\n17:03.454 --> 17:06.777\n),國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.131,"end":12.997,"text":"主席,各位大家午安,是不是請我們許部長還有,先許部長好了。好,請許部長。另外好。保證,可能是只有一次,不然還有禮拜三。"},{"start":24.544,"end":32.949,"text":"主委先跟你祝福啦。不過我今天還是要先來談一下這個健全就業安全的這個體系的問題。我是要談這個救保法。"},{"start":40.133,"end":62.739,"text":"國民黨黨團擬具《工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案》案 從2003年開始上路施行到現在經歷了兩次的很重大的危機就是這個2008年的金融海嘯還有這個COVID-19的疫情那勞動部認為這個《工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案》是不是有需要擴大適用對象的檢討的必要"},{"start":64.161,"end":65.225,"text":"除此之外,是否有必要?"},{"start":73.513,"end":96.686,"text":"我跟您討論第一個就是擴大納保對象。那我們講這個是因為這個就業保險的立法一旨一開中民意就講勞工的就業技能促進提升勞工的就業技能促進就業保障勞工職訓及失業一定期間的基本生活所以這個很重要"},{"start":97.446,"end":101.849,"text":"那我們看了一下從這個就業保險投保單位及人數統計月報113年2月底納保人數總計7309,329人"},{"start":114.278,"end":137.958,"text":"但是呢比對人力資源運用調查比如112年年底的統計的資料受僱者人數既有930萬6千人那其中私人僱用者827萬8千人所以這樣子來算的話就保法依法法定涵蓋的這個對象涵蓋率大概88.29%"},{"start":141.101,"end":143.742,"text":"兼具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 案 案"},{"start":162.052,"end":189.528,"text":"人排除了自營作業者和65歲以上的勞工這一個缺失在COVID-19的時候你們變成說無法救濟他們我們那時候那個補貼是針對無一定僱主跟自營作業者職業工會但我記得那時候只要他有投入債保有加債保的你的補貼不是用救保啦你是就業安定基金啦"},{"start":192.152,"end":195.973,"text":"僱用安定措施是來自於就業安定基金,那我現在講的是這個救保。"},{"start":209.497,"end":213.359,"text":"我第一個跟你討論就是要來擴大納保對象第一個我們就先從這個要納入所謂的經濟依賴型的自營作業者經濟依賴型的話如果從西班牙制定了一個自營作業者法他有訂定一個經濟依賴型的自營作業者"},{"start":236.59,"end":239.733,"text":"其中一人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑一﹑"},{"start":256.391,"end":259.155,"text":"兼具〈工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":272.524,"end":291.192,"text":"μη在COVID-19期間其實也有看到一些困難一些問題當時就在講說有必要要檢討將自營作業者納入就業安全網才不會在COVID-19期間發現制度沒有辦法保障接不起他們所以才用這個安定基金去接"},{"start":291.852,"end":309.889,"text":"獎項獎項獎項"},{"start":310.009,"end":335.111,"text":"而且這個擬具的這個期限或者是說承諾簽署個人將積極尋求這個就業接受合適的工作並參與公立就業服務機構提供的特定獎勵資訊職業訓練和就業推薦為要件所以這個部分部長或者是我們部裡面有什麼看法?包委員"},{"start":337.199,"end":337.359,"text":"國民黨黨團擬具"},{"start":353.899,"end":373.797,"text":" ️ ️ ️ ️"},{"start":373.797,"end":398.524,"text":"但第二個擴大納保的對象就是跟我們今天講的有關的當我們在講說要取消掉這個法定的強制退休年齡然後不得這個強迫退休65歲以上的勞工那這種狀況裡面我們看到推動中高齡在就業如果要持續的開發65歲以上的這個勞動力那我們也應該要提供就業安全的保障啊"},{"start":399.344,"end":420.211,"text":"所以在這種狀況裡面65歲持續就業的他如果遇到你試試看65歲跟在上班的其實某種程度他在經濟上的對經濟上的這個需求其實相對的依賴這個工作的程度是高的因為他說沒辦法經濟就受衝擊啊"},{"start":421.932,"end":450.741,"text":" »:所以那也需要這個非自願性離職的時候的薪資填補的需求啊也要給他就業安全的保障啊所以在這種裡面其實針對你們大概也都討論過你們也有共識要取消65歲的年齡限制了但唯一你們討論的是說那如果65歲了已經有請領這個老保老年年金給付的人他的核算的方法給付的方法要怎麼算吧那你們"},{"start":452.941,"end":476.666,"text":"公視,勞參率要更高,就業年齡不要限制,所以你要配套啊,配套的話當然是失業給付也是其中一個配套啊。那這個65歲以上可以請領納保,也可以請領失業給付的話,那你們目前研議的方向是怎麼樣?"},{"start":481.024,"end":506.809,"text":"報告委員其實這個部分我們現在日本是我們那時候討論就是說像日本他是只發給一次性的失業給付他就不是六個月這樣子然後像韓國你說在已經請領老保老年給付之後對那他如果失業我們就給他一次性的給付那韓國是怎麼樣那韓國他是"},{"start":508.031,"end":510.815,"text":"兼具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 。"},{"start":525.394,"end":551.284,"text":"),委員彭大納保對象,另外一個是我們覺得應該檢討不合理的給付規定。其中一個就是縮短失業給付等待期14天改成7天。因為我們現在在講說你必須要14天的等待期,那確定你是無法推介就業或安排職業訓練,你真的是努力了,這14天等一下。"},{"start":553.1,"end":581.891,"text":"但是我現在要告訴你說部長14天等待期之前你要請你失業給付的第一關就是你是非自願性的離職的而且他本來就要到公立就業服務機關辦理求職登記日他已經有去辦理了那你還叫他等14天我是說現在因為你覺得14天沒什麼可是對很多人來講這14天的這個生活衝擊很大的也有"},{"start":582.832,"end":583.537,"text":"因為那第一個 嗯"},{"start":585.677,"end":610.034,"text":"他是非自願性離職的啦。非自願性的離職然後在這種狀況裡面失業給付本來就要發揮的就是急難、救急他是一個及時雨那要幫助勞工度過這個難關那更何況 ILO促進就業和失業保護的公約第18條第1項他有講喔謝謝"},{"start":612.936,"end":626.122,"text":"如果成員國的立法規定在全失業的情況下是有在等待期,期滿後才能開始支付津貼,但這個等待期不得超過7天。"},{"start":628.423,"end":635.965,"text":"而我們現在的就業失業給付的等待期14天比ILO建議的還要嚴格如果你去參考日本的僱傭保險的失業津貼非自願離職多數不可抗力的理由離職離職後日本也是7天當然日本比我們更優渥因為他們還有自願離職的給付"},{"start":658.477,"end":683.215,"text":"自願離職的給付但我們今天暫時就不討論這個所以這個部長這個有沒有檢討的空間呢?包括委員有我們其實內部有討論吶吼那認為說應該是要再縮短再縮短比照ILO很好標準吶好那可以做得到那我再講第二個要降低的這個不合理的給付的規定就是要降低啟動延長失業給付門檻現在失業給付是6個月嘛"},{"start":688.298,"end":701.983,"text":"之五歲以上還有身障可以自動門檻能低的大概延長給付到九個月。當然我們現在規定是最長是所有個月,但條件比較嚴苛。但是45歲以下的"},{"start":706.445,"end":708.866,"text":"),委員我們就規定說你必須要有條件比較嚴格就是你的這個舊保失業率再加上中央主計機關發布失業率連續4個月未降低才能領到9個月或者是你要領12個月的話必須舊保失業率"},{"start":731.435,"end":748.155,"text":"國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案件及中央組織機關發布事業率連續8個月沒有降低,這個外部條件都符合了,才能讓你延長領到9個月或12個月,所以"},{"start":749.015,"end":751.017,"text":"), 委員王育敏等21人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":778.635,"end":795.862,"text":"),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第16期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案．立法院第16期社會福利及第六條條條文修正草案．立法院第17期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18期社會福利及第18"},{"start":802.185,"end":823.027,"text":"其始就業保險的給付除了失業給付還有一個其實是很不錯的就是提早就業獎助津貼制度上我們也提供了誘因並不是說你繼續領領月長月老其實我們你早一點的去就業找到工作我們也有津貼嘛"},{"start":824.128,"end":852.529,"text":"所以這個東西我們是希望說這個津貼講提早就業津貼也有配套所以你卻刻意讓這個延長失業給付的門檻這麼高讓我們看得到吃不到那也很難發揮就業安定的政策效果因為真的有人真的很難找工作了其實很多因素很多因素那第二個理由是說"},{"start":854.111,"end":868.124,"text":"我要跟您討論說就業保險失業率本身就是一個落後指標。你們要讓它0到9個月角12個月都要看就業保險失業率再加上社會的這個整體的失業率可是呢"},{"start":868.524,"end":895.623,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":895.663,"end":912.55,"text":"人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案 案 ﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六條條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第四條及第六"},{"start":919.813,"end":927.156,"text":"),委員陳菁徽等18人擬具 «工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案﹚立法院第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16次全體委員會議及第16"},{"start":943.002,"end":963.159,"text":"同樣的我們也是希望你說延長失業給付這樣子的條件和門檻也應該要更有彈性你一直把它綁在你都知道就業保險率是落後指標而且是來不及反映也來不及承接這一些失業的勞工所需要的生活上的衝擊"},{"start":965.08,"end":981.388,"text":" »:所以是不是也應該要一併的檢討這樣的一個落後指標應該取消而且更應該要彈性化一點那降低啟動延長失業給付的門檻簡單的說啦失業給付6個月要延長到9個月延長到12個月你現在的指標和門檻應該要檢討了這樣子可不可以謝謝委員這個部分我們來檢討我覺得應該要檢討"},{"start":992.953,"end":997.996,"text":"議員,你要走了,你要交給下一任的部長。業務單位要記得喔,在這裡承諾的喔。65歲以上要納保,經濟依賴型的這個自營作業者也要納保。然後這個要縮短失業給付14天變成7天喔。然後要降低啟動延長失業給付的門檻喔。"},{"start":1023.454,"end":1026.777,"text":"), 國民黨黨團擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案 案 案"}]}}}}