{"id":152466,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152466","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d7e25ee5d31e173472fad03d0d17ab17ab4a2946638eec232d94006c6d412c4d7928a3d90b696a425ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李彥秀","委員發言時間":"12:32:20 - 12:39:42","影片長度":"00:07:22","會議時間":"2024-05-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n(一)委員王育敏等21人擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)國民黨黨團擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一)委員王育敏等18人擬具「勞動基準法第五十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)國民黨黨團擬具「勞動基準法第五十四條及第八十六條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查\n(一)委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員王育敏等18人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第九條及第二十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員馬文君等22人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員邱若華等20人擬具「中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法第七條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n【一、(三)及(四)案：如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【三、(四)案：如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【討論事項綜合詢答】\n【5月13日、15日及16日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-13","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-16"},"duration":442,"end_time":"2024-05-13T12:39:42+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-13T12:32:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1169,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（12時32分）謝謝，我可不可以請消防署署長？我順便也先請一下銓敘部的朱次長。"],["主席：請蕭署長及朱次長。"],["李委員彥秀：署長，我想今天一整個早上質詢了這麼久，誠如剛才幾位委員所提出來的，對於消防局的同仁、消防署底下所有的全國同仁組工會，你們是不支持的，你們是傾向處理公務人員協會法，對不對？"],["蕭署長煥章：是，目前是用公務人員協會法的方式來處理。"],["李委員彥秀：對，如果不是我們召委今天排這個議案，我不知道這個案子還要拖多久！消防署底下的同仁過去這麼多年來幾次大火的殉職，我相信這是全國人的傷痛，也是消防弟兄看到每一次事件過後，都是今天公祭，政府明天就忘記。如果成立公務人員協會真的這麼重要，我覺得就不會拖到今天，上一屆的立法院早就已經可以處理完了，但是為什麼到今天你們公務人員協會法的修正還沒有出來？你今天還在跟我講你們不支持消防同仁組工會，你們還是希望在協會法裡面來做處理，這是大家所憤怒的地方！","我相信你非常清楚，現在所有消防同仁想要申請調動的狀況其實非常非常頻繁，勤務最多的六都，大家都想調到鄉下地方或是城鄉差距比較大的地方，我想你非常清楚，原因在哪裡？你也非常清楚，所以我覺得你如果真的有把所有消防局每一個弟兄都當成你的家人，這個事情就不會拖到今天，如果召委沒有排這個議題，我都不知道還要拖到什麼時候！所以無論是我們消防局同仁的結社權、協商權，未來怎麼去處理大家所關注的這幾塊，我希望儘速地在一個月之內你可以告訴我們立法院有具體的作法，否則後續就按照我們立法院的權力來處理，好不好？署長，這是我的建議，你可以請回，因為我今天還有其他的議題要請問朱政次。","朱次長，我接下來就要跟你討論派用人員遷調彈性的問題，大家都知道，在民國五、六十年代的時候，國家為了推動國家的重大建設，行政機關可以用遴選的方式去找專業人力，這是當時我們派用人員原來的理由，是我們找專業的人、我們任用專業的人，他不需要經過國家的考試。但是派用人員派用條例已經在104年廢止，並給予9年的落日期間，也就是在今年6月19號落日之後，所有的派用人員就必須留在他原任的地方或等到他離職為止，不能再增加任何派用人員，他最終如果還留在職位上，只能平調，這個是派用條例原來的精神。","我舉一個例子來說，臺北市捷運局目前派用的人員有368人，占整體編制的61.95%，將近62%，一級主管有55%，也就是說，我以臺北市捷運局為例，它所有的任用幾乎變成是一灘死水，有55%的人是一級主管，也就是新的人想進來捷運局，他未來升遷的機會恐怕非常困難。全國在做軌道建設，在任用捷運局人員時，常常會跟臺北市政府捷運局要人，其實我們本來的原意是不希望這些派用人員去影響到全國其他的機關，但是在臺北市捷運局來說，它就是一灘死水，念捷運專業的人想進來，如果進臺北市的捷運局，他未來可能也升不上去，因為55%的人都是在一級主管，而且他們只能平調，永遠是留在這邊。所以針對臺北市政府捷運局的這些問題，朱政次有沒有什麼樣解決的方案可以處理？因為畢竟軌道建設在臺灣東西向未來的發展，現在中南部也在做軌道建設，這些問題有沒有什麼比較具體可以處理的方向跟方式？"],["朱次長楠賢：報告李委員，現在因為這個法規定得蠻硬的……"],["李委員彥秀：法不是不可以調整啦！"],["朱次長楠賢：他是在同職稱同官等內，現在……"],["李委員彥秀：我知道，因為它的人不多，全國就這三百多個人，但是我覺得捷運的專業其實非常重要，我們也希望捷運局未來可以任用更多年輕的人才，讓他未來的升遷是有機會的，否則未來全國的軌道建設就只剩下這一批資深的人，我們沒有人才不斷的活化進用。"],["朱次長楠賢：是，我們為了讓這有點彈性，已經報到考試院去了，就是說這些人不一定要留在原機關，可以留在他的所屬機關，讓這個水庫變大一點，他可以在所屬機關同職稱調動。"],["李委員彥秀：朱政次，我只提醒你一句，因為他要到其他機關，其他機關並不一定要他。"],["朱次長楠賢：他們相關的機關可以調動，但是不能動職稱。"],["李委員彥秀：他只能平調，你還是沒有解決他只能平調，他沒有升遷的機會。"],["朱次長楠賢：他可以移到其他機關……"],["李委員彥秀：你還是沒聽懂，它的一級主管占了55%，也就是其他年輕人倒不如到其他單位，他未來還有升遷的機會，他在這個單位奮鬥十年、十五年、二十年，他還有升遷的機會，但是在捷運局裡面他就沒有升遷機會，因為一級主管占了將近55%，而且他只能平調，這是現在任用條例上面的問題。所以我最後具體要求，兩個禮拜之內對於這個問題提出一個討論解決的方案出來，派用的條例當時是不希望他到處跑，影響到別人升遷的權益，但是它卻卡死了臺北市政府捷運局用人更有彈性，能夠吸引更多年輕、有能力的專業人才進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面，所以這個問題怎麼處理，可不可以在兩個禮拜以內給我一個檢討的方案？你瞭解我意思嗎？"],["朱次長楠賢：可以，瞭解。"],["李委員彥秀：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李彥秀委員的質詢。接下來請邱志偉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":270,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-16","speakers":["王育敏","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","陳昭姿","林月琴","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:38,772\n署長,我想今天一整個早上諮詢了這麼久,成為剛才幾位委員所提出來的對於消防局的同仁、消防署底下所有的全國的同仁組工會,你們是不支持的,你們是傾向處理公務人員的協會,對不對?\n\n3\n00:00:45,295 --> 00:01:07,028\n對,今天如果不是我們召委今天排這個議案我不知道這個案子還要拖多久消防署的底下的所有同仁過去這麼多年來幾次大火殉職我相信這是全國人的傷痛也是消防弟兄看到每一次事件過後都是今天攻擊政府明天就忘記\n\n4\n00:01:08,277 --> 00:01:33,727\n如果成立公務人員協會真的這麼重要我覺得就不會拖到今天上一屆的立法院早就已經可以處理完了但是為什麼到今天你們公務人員的協會法還沒有出來你今天還在跟我講說我們不支持消防同仁組工會我們還是希望在協會法裡面來做處理這是大家所憤怒的地方\n\n5\n00:01:35,089 --> 00:02:00,685\n所以我覺得我相信你非常清楚現在所有的消防同仁想要申請調動的狀況其實非常非常頻繁勤務最多的無論是六都大家都想調到鄉下地方或是城鄉差距比較大的地方我想你非常清楚原因在哪裡你也非常清楚\n\n6\n00:02:15,154 --> 00:02:31,221\n所以無論是我們相關集同仁的結社權協商權裡面未來怎麼去處理大家所關注的這幾塊我希望競速的在一個月之內你可以告訴我們立法院有具體的做法否則立法院就按照我們後續我們的權利我們來處理好不好\n\n7\n00:02:36,300 --> 00:02:56,699\n組長這是我的建議你可以請回我因為我今天還有其他的議題要請問朱政次朱市長我接下來就要跟你討論我們派用人員簽調彈性的問題大家都知道在民國五六十年的時候五六十年代的時候我們國家為了推動國家的重大建設我們的行政機關\n\n8\n00:02:58,941 --> 00:03:02,242\n),委員王育敏等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n9\n00:03:17,148 --> 00:03:34,714\n),委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條\n\n10\n00:03:39,416 --> 00:03:54,745\n這是我們現在我們這個派用的條例當時派用派用條例當時的原來的精神那我舉一個例子來說以臺北市捷運局目前派用的人員有368人占整體捷運局的將近61.95%將近62%那一級主管有55%\n\n11\n00:04:01,049 --> 00:04:03,832\n),委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n12\n00:04:22,330 --> 00:04:48,935\n鬼道建設在任用捷運局常常會跟臺北市政府捷運局要人但是這些人其實我們本來原意是不希望這些派用人員去影響到全國其他的機關但是在臺北市捷運局來說他就是一灘死水想進來念捷運專業人想進來我如果進來臺北市的捷運局他未來可能也升不上去因為55%的人都是在一起主管而且他只能平掉他永遠是留在這邊\n\n13\n00:04:49,995 --> 00:05:16,943\n​​所以針對台北市政府擬具這些問題朱正智有沒有什麼樣解決的方案可以處理因為畢竟軌道建設在臺灣我們目前東西向未來的發展南部我們現在中南部也在做軌道建設那這些問題有沒有什麼比較具體可以處理的方向跟方式是報告李委員現在就是我們在因為這個法的規定蠻硬的啦\n\n14\n00:05:18,164 --> 00:05:19,565\n國民黨黨團擬具«工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案\n\n15\n00:05:33,579 --> 00:05:33,639\n​​擬具擬具擬具\n\n16\n00:05:48,932 --> 00:05:55,118\n委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n17\n00:06:12,441 --> 00:06:13,723\n獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎\n\n18\n00:06:27,779 --> 00:06:29,019\n兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具\n\n19\n00:06:49,701 --> 00:07:13,467\n議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。派用的條例當時是不希望他到處去用的、到處跑然後影響到別人的權益、身陷權益。但是他卻卡死了在台北市政府捷運局他用人、更有彈性、能夠吸引更多年輕人、有能力的專業進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。所以這個問題怎麼處理可不可以在兩個禮拜以內給我一個檢討的方案。\n\n20\n00:07:17,386 --> 00:07:17,486\n兼職委員長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6488\t18664\t謝謝,我可不可以請消防署署長。我順便也先請一下人事總署的,對不起,我請全序部的朱政次,朱次長。好,請消防署長跟朱次長。\n19938\t38772\t署長,我想今天一整個早上諮詢了這麼久,成為剛才幾位委員所提出來的對於消防局的同仁、消防署底下所有的全國的同仁組工會,你們是不支持的,你們是傾向處理公務人員的協會,對不對?\n45295\t67028\t對,今天如果不是我們召委今天排這個議案我不知道這個案子還要拖多久消防署的底下的所有同仁過去這麼多年來幾次大火殉職我相信這是全國人的傷痛也是消防弟兄看到每一次事件過後都是今天攻擊政府明天就忘記\n68277\t93727\t如果成立公務人員協會真的這麼重要我覺得就不會拖到今天上一屆的立法院早就已經可以處理完了但是為什麼到今天你們公務人員的協會法還沒有出來你今天還在跟我講說我們不支持消防同仁組工會我們還是希望在協會法裡面來做處理這是大家所憤怒的地方\n95089\t120685\t所以我覺得我相信你非常清楚現在所有的消防同仁想要申請調動的狀況其實非常非常頻繁勤務最多的無論是六都大家都想調到鄉下地方或是城鄉差距比較大的地方我想你非常清楚原因在哪裡你也非常清楚\n121698\t134548\t\n135154\t151221\t所以無論是我們相關集同仁的結社權協商權裡面未來怎麼去處理大家所關注的這幾塊我希望競速的在一個月之內你可以告訴我們立法院有具體的做法否則立法院就按照我們後續我們的權利我們來處理好不好\n156300\t176699\t組長這是我的建議你可以請回我因為我今天還有其他的議題要請問朱政次朱市長我接下來就要跟你討論我們派用人員簽調彈性的問題大家都知道在民國五六十年的時候五六十年代的時候我們國家為了推動國家的重大建設我們的行政機關\n178941\t182242\t),委員王育敏等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n197148\t214714\t),委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條\n219416\t234745\t這是我們現在我們這個派用的條例當時派用派用條例當時的原來的精神那我舉一個例子來說以臺北市捷運局目前派用的人員有368人占整體捷運局的將近61.95%將近62%那一級主管有55%\n241049\t243832\t),委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n262330\t288935\t鬼道建設在任用捷運局常常會跟臺北市政府捷運局要人但是這些人其實我們本來原意是不希望這些派用人員去影響到全國其他的機關但是在臺北市捷運局來說他就是一灘死水想進來念捷運專業人想進來我如果進來臺北市的捷運局他未來可能也升不上去因為55%的人都是在一起主管而且他只能平掉他永遠是留在這邊\n289995\t316943\t​​所以針對台北市政府擬具這些問題朱正智有沒有什麼樣解決的方案可以處理因為畢竟軌道建設在臺灣我們目前東西向未來的發展南部我們現在中南部也在做軌道建設那這些問題有沒有什麼比較具體可以處理的方向跟方式是 報告李委員現在就是我們在因為這個法的規定蠻硬的啦\n318164\t319565\t國民黨黨團擬具 «工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案\n333579\t333639\t​​擬具擬具擬具\n348932\t355118\t委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n372441\t373723\t獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎\n387779\t389019\t兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具\n409701\t433467\t議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。派用的條例當時是不希望他到處去用的、到處跑然後影響到別人的權益、身陷權益。但是他卻卡死了在台北市政府捷運局他用人、更有彈性、能夠吸引更多年輕人、有能力的專業進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。所以這個問題怎麼處理可不可以在兩個禮拜以內給我一個檢討的方案。\n437386\t437486\t兼職委員長\n","txt":"謝謝,我可不可以請消防署署長。我順便也先請一下人事總署的,對不起,我請全序部的朱政次,朱次長。好,請消防署長跟朱次長。\n署長,我想今天一整個早上諮詢了這麼久,成為剛才幾位委員所提出來的對於消防局的同仁、消防署底下所有的全國的同仁組工會,你們是不支持的,你們是傾向處理公務人員的協會,對不對?\n對,今天如果不是我們召委今天排這個議案我不知道這個案子還要拖多久消防署的底下的所有同仁過去這麼多年來幾次大火殉職我相信這是全國人的傷痛也是消防弟兄看到每一次事件過後都是今天攻擊政府明天就忘記\n如果成立公務人員協會真的這麼重要我覺得就不會拖到今天上一屆的立法院早就已經可以處理完了但是為什麼到今天你們公務人員的協會法還沒有出來你今天還在跟我講說我們不支持消防同仁組工會我們還是希望在協會法裡面來做處理這是大家所憤怒的地方\n所以我覺得我相信你非常清楚現在所有的消防同仁想要申請調動的狀況其實非常非常頻繁勤務最多的無論是六都大家都想調到鄉下地方或是城鄉差距比較大的地方我想你非常清楚原因在哪裡你也非常清楚\n\n所以無論是我們相關集同仁的結社權協商權裡面未來怎麼去處理大家所關注的這幾塊我希望競速的在一個月之內你可以告訴我們立法院有具體的做法否則立法院就按照我們後續我們的權利我們來處理好不好\n組長這是我的建議你可以請回我因為我今天還有其他的議題要請問朱政次朱市長我接下來就要跟你討論我們派用人員簽調彈性的問題大家都知道在民國五六十年的時候五六十年代的時候我們國家為了推動國家的重大建設我們的行政機關\n),委員王育敏等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n),委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條\n這是我們現在我們這個派用的條例當時派用派用條例當時的原來的精神那我舉一個例子來說以臺北市捷運局目前派用的人員有368人占整體捷運局的將近61.95%將近62%那一級主管有55%\n),委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n鬼道建設在任用捷運局常常會跟臺北市政府捷運局要人但是這些人其實我們本來原意是不希望這些派用人員去影響到全國其他的機關但是在臺北市捷運局來說他就是一灘死水想進來念捷運專業人想進來我如果進來臺北市的捷運局他未來可能也升不上去因為55%的人都是在一起主管而且他只能平掉他永遠是留在這邊\n​​所以針對台北市政府擬具這些問題朱正智有沒有什麼樣解決的方案可以處理因為畢竟軌道建設在臺灣我們目前東西向未來的發展南部我們現在中南部也在做軌道建設那這些問題有沒有什麼比較具體可以處理的方向跟方式是 報告李委員現在就是我們在因為這個法的規定蠻硬的啦\n國民黨黨團擬具 «工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案\n​​擬具擬具擬具\n委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎\n兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具\n議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。派用的條例當時是不希望他到處去用的、到處跑然後影響到別人的權益、身陷權益。但是他卻卡死了在台北市政府捷運局他用人、更有彈性、能夠吸引更多年輕人、有能力的專業進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。所以這個問題怎麼處理可不可以在兩個禮拜以內給我一個檢討的方案。\n兼職委員長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.488 --> 00:18.664\n謝謝,我可不可以請消防署署長。我順便也先請一下人事總署的,對不起,我請全序部的朱政次,朱次長。好,請消防署長跟朱次長。\n\n00:19.938 --> 00:38.772\n署長,我想今天一整個早上諮詢了這麼久,成為剛才幾位委員所提出來的對於消防局的同仁、消防署底下所有的全國的同仁組工會,你們是不支持的,你們是傾向處理公務人員的協會,對不對?\n\n00:45.295 --> 01:07.028\n對,今天如果不是我們召委今天排這個議案我不知道這個案子還要拖多久消防署的底下的所有同仁過去這麼多年來幾次大火殉職我相信這是全國人的傷痛也是消防弟兄看到每一次事件過後都是今天攻擊政府明天就忘記\n\n01:08.277 --> 01:33.727\n如果成立公務人員協會真的這麼重要我覺得就不會拖到今天上一屆的立法院早就已經可以處理完了但是為什麼到今天你們公務人員的協會法還沒有出來你今天還在跟我講說我們不支持消防同仁組工會我們還是希望在協會法裡面來做處理這是大家所憤怒的地方\n\n01:35.089 --> 02:00.685\n所以我覺得我相信你非常清楚現在所有的消防同仁想要申請調動的狀況其實非常非常頻繁勤務最多的無論是六都大家都想調到鄉下地方或是城鄉差距比較大的地方我想你非常清楚原因在哪裡你也非常清楚\n\n02:15.154 --> 02:31.221\n所以無論是我們相關集同仁的結社權協商權裡面未來怎麼去處理大家所關注的這幾塊我希望競速的在一個月之內你可以告訴我們立法院有具體的做法否則立法院就按照我們後續我們的權利我們來處理好不好\n\n02:36.300 --> 02:56.699\n組長這是我的建議你可以請回我因為我今天還有其他的議題要請問朱政次朱市長我接下來就要跟你討論我們派用人員簽調彈性的問題大家都知道在民國五六十年的時候五六十年代的時候我們國家為了推動國家的重大建設我們的行政機關\n\n02:58.941 --> 03:02.242\n),委員王育敏等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n03:17.148 --> 03:34.714\n),委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條\n\n03:39.416 --> 03:54.745\n這是我們現在我們這個派用的條例當時派用派用條例當時的原來的精神那我舉一個例子來說以臺北市捷運局目前派用的人員有368人占整體捷運局的將近61.95%將近62%那一級主管有55%\n\n04:01.049 --> 04:03.832\n),委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n04:22.330 --> 04:48.935\n鬼道建設在任用捷運局常常會跟臺北市政府捷運局要人但是這些人其實我們本來原意是不希望這些派用人員去影響到全國其他的機關但是在臺北市捷運局來說他就是一灘死水想進來念捷運專業人想進來我如果進來臺北市的捷運局他未來可能也升不上去因為55%的人都是在一起主管而且他只能平掉他永遠是留在這邊\n\n04:49.995 --> 05:16.943\n​​所以針對台北市政府擬具這些問題朱正智有沒有什麼樣解決的方案可以處理因為畢竟軌道建設在臺灣我們目前東西向未來的發展南部我們現在中南部也在做軌道建設那這些問題有沒有什麼比較具體可以處理的方向跟方式是報告李委員現在就是我們在因為這個法的規定蠻硬的啦\n\n05:18.164 --> 05:19.565\n國民黨黨團擬具«工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案\n\n05:33.579 --> 05:33.639\n​​擬具擬具擬具\n\n05:48.932 --> 05:55.118\n委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n06:12.441 --> 06:13.723\n獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎\n\n06:27.779 --> 06:29.019\n兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具\n\n06:49.701 --> 07:13.467\n議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。派用的條例當時是不希望他到處去用的、到處跑然後影響到別人的權益、身陷權益。但是他卻卡死了在台北市政府捷運局他用人、更有彈性、能夠吸引更多年輕人、有能力的專業進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。所以這個問題怎麼處理可不可以在兩個禮拜以內給我一個檢討的方案。\n\n07:17.386 --> 07:17.486\n兼職委員長\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.488,"end":18.664,"text":"謝謝,我可不可以請消防署署長。我順便也先請一下人事總署的,對不起,我請全序部的朱政次,朱次長。好,請消防署長跟朱次長。"},{"start":19.938,"end":38.772,"text":"署長,我想今天一整個早上諮詢了這麼久,成為剛才幾位委員所提出來的對於消防局的同仁、消防署底下所有的全國的同仁組工會,你們是不支持的,你們是傾向處理公務人員的協會,對不對?"},{"start":45.295,"end":67.028,"text":"對,今天如果不是我們召委今天排這個議案我不知道這個案子還要拖多久消防署的底下的所有同仁過去這麼多年來幾次大火殉職我相信這是全國人的傷痛也是消防弟兄看到每一次事件過後都是今天攻擊政府明天就忘記"},{"start":68.277,"end":93.727,"text":"如果成立公務人員協會真的這麼重要我覺得就不會拖到今天上一屆的立法院早就已經可以處理完了但是為什麼到今天你們公務人員的協會法還沒有出來你今天還在跟我講說我們不支持消防同仁組工會我們還是希望在協會法裡面來做處理這是大家所憤怒的地方"},{"start":95.089,"end":120.685,"text":"所以我覺得我相信你非常清楚現在所有的消防同仁想要申請調動的狀況其實非常非常頻繁勤務最多的無論是六都大家都想調到鄉下地方或是城鄉差距比較大的地方我想你非常清楚原因在哪裡你也非常清楚"},{"start":121.698,"end":134.548,"text":""},{"start":135.154,"end":151.221,"text":"所以無論是我們相關集同仁的結社權協商權裡面未來怎麼去處理大家所關注的這幾塊我希望競速的在一個月之內你可以告訴我們立法院有具體的做法否則立法院就按照我們後續我們的權利我們來處理好不好"},{"start":156.3,"end":176.699,"text":"組長這是我的建議你可以請回我因為我今天還有其他的議題要請問朱政次朱市長我接下來就要跟你討論我們派用人員簽調彈性的問題大家都知道在民國五六十年的時候五六十年代的時候我們國家為了推動國家的重大建設我們的行政機關"},{"start":178.941,"end":182.242,"text":"),委員王育敏等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":197.148,"end":214.714,"text":"),委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條條文修正草案案件及工會法第四條條條"},{"start":219.416,"end":234.745,"text":"這是我們現在我們這個派用的條例當時派用派用條例當時的原來的精神那我舉一個例子來說以臺北市捷運局目前派用的人員有368人占整體捷運局的將近61.95%將近62%那一級主管有55%"},{"start":241.049,"end":243.832,"text":"),委員王育敏等19人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":262.33,"end":288.935,"text":"鬼道建設在任用捷運局常常會跟臺北市政府捷運局要人但是這些人其實我們本來原意是不希望這些派用人員去影響到全國其他的機關但是在臺北市捷運局來說他就是一灘死水想進來念捷運專業人想進來我如果進來臺北市的捷運局他未來可能也升不上去因為55%的人都是在一起主管而且他只能平掉他永遠是留在這邊"},{"start":289.995,"end":316.943,"text":"​​所以針對台北市政府擬具這些問題朱正智有沒有什麼樣解決的方案可以處理因為畢竟軌道建設在臺灣我們目前東西向未來的發展南部我們現在中南部也在做軌道建設那這些問題有沒有什麼比較具體可以處理的方向跟方式是 報告李委員現在就是我們在因為這個法的規定蠻硬的啦"},{"start":318.164,"end":319.565,"text":"國民黨黨團擬具 «工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案"},{"start":333.579,"end":333.639,"text":"​​擬具擬具擬具"},{"start":348.932,"end":355.118,"text":"委員陳菁徽等18人擬具:「工會法第四條及第六條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":372.441,"end":373.723,"text":"獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎金獎"},{"start":387.779,"end":389.019,"text":"兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具兼具"},{"start":409.701,"end":433.467,"text":"議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。議員陳菁徽提出一個討論解決的方案出來。派用的條例當時是不希望他到處去用的、到處跑然後影響到別人的權益、身陷權益。但是他卻卡死了在台北市政府捷運局他用人、更有彈性、能夠吸引更多年輕人、有能力的專業進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。進入軌道建設的這個領域裡面。所以這個問題怎麼處理可不可以在兩個禮拜以內給我一個檢討的方案。"},{"start":437.386,"end":437.486,"text":"兼職委員長"}]}}}}