{"id":152503,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152503","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7786a6f84a6532c0ffcaa020223466caad847f93a84224faabc25b9e10ac7e45b2462f6caa9091c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅美玲","委員發言時間":"09:42:02 - 09:52:29","影片長度":"00:10:27","會議時間":"2024-05-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「推動國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會（WHA）執行現況」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-15","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-20"},"duration":627,"end_time":"2024-05-15T09:52:29+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-15T09:42:02+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":310,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（9時42分）謝謝主席，有請吳部長。"],["主席：請吳部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：部長早安。我們現在回歸到今天的主題、WHA，難得我們的主席擬定了這麼好的題目讓大家來做質詢，5月27號WHA即將在日內瓦舉行，到目前為止我們都還沒有收到邀約，對不對？"],["吳部長釗燮：還沒。"],["羅委員美玲：都還沒有嘛！"],["吳部長釗燮：是。"],["羅委員美玲：我從外交部跟衛福部的報告可以看得出來，其實我們做了很多很多的努力，從各個管道希望能夠爭取支持，這幾年我們確確實實也獲得很多國際友人的支持，希望臺灣能夠重返WHA，可是很遺憾的是，WHO的秘書處一直基於中國的壓力，違背了自身的宗旨跟願景，把臺灣排拒在WHA之外，我在想今年可能也不例外。"],["吳部長釗燮：難度很高。"],["羅委員美玲：難度非常的高。不管怎麼樣，我們還是會在5月27號的時候啟程前往日內瓦，透過過去的模式；以舉辦周邊活動或雙邊會談的方式來進行。其實中國對我國的打壓長年以來都是如此，從20年前的2003年，臺灣面臨嚴峻的SARS到COVID-19的大浩劫，中國從來都沒有放棄對臺灣的打壓，我放這影片是在20年前，那時候臺灣的記者在詢問中國駐日內瓦的大使沙祖康，有關臺灣要加入WHA這個問題的時候，他說：「誰理你們啊？」那張嘴臉。經過了20年，中國對臺灣還是這個態度，而且我們覺得會更加嚴峻。我是覺得，不管我們做了多大的努力想要重返WHA，可是這條路非常非常的辛苦、艱辛，尤其是中國這10年來推動了一連串的政策，譬如一帶一路，還有2021年推行的全球發展倡議、2022年全球安全倡議等等，其實都在挑戰美國主導的國際秩序，尤其是一帶一路，針對一些發展中的國家像中亞或非洲，協助進行基礎建設，讓這些國家倒向中國，所以無論我們再怎麼努力，可是舉手表決的時候，支持我國的這些國家還是沒有辦法讓臺灣重返WHA。面對如此嚴峻的國際情勢，我們以後要如何去因應呢？請問部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：非常謝謝委員，對我們參加世界衛生大會的關心，的確參加世界衛生大會對我們來講是一個很艱辛的歷程，但是就過去這幾年我們的經驗來看，我們必須要去聚沙成塔，一次一次的去累積，比如有一些國家開始在支持我們，他們支持的方式是用聯合進洽的方式，或者是說直接、間接為我們發言的方式，或者是說用聯合支持信函的方式，我們回頭過去看這幾年是不斷的在增加當中。在國際輿論的氛圍方面，我們也看到越來越多國家的國會議員，透過不同的方式來聲援我們，像今年美國支持我們的力道是更加強勁，尤其是他們針對2758號決議案做了一個非常重要的聲明。所以我覺得長此以往繼續去努力爭取這些相關的友誼，對於未來我們的參加是會有幫助的。委員剛剛提到一個重點，就是在聯合國或相關的機構方面，the Global South，也就是全球南方整個很大的集團，由於中國的影響力非常大，所以最終如果要走到投票的話，我相信連美國這種好朋友都覺得這應該不是一條我們應該去走的路。現在我們就是必須要去逐漸累積我們的實力，吸引更多其他的好朋友來支持我們。"],["羅委員美玲：謝謝，我知道外交部在國際情勢如此嚴峻的情況之下，真的是非常非常的辛苦，其實我們都看在眼裡，無論未來的路很艱困、很艱辛，可是我在想以臺灣在國際上這幾年的表現，我想會贏得很多國家的肯定，我們也希望真的有重返WHA的這一天。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員。"],["羅委員美玲：再來還有一點就是價值觀外交，價值觀外交一直都是歐洲一個很重要的外交政策，價值觀外交其實強調的就是對自由、民主、人權、法治等基本權利的尊重，像歐洲聯盟基本條約、里斯本條約及歐洲聯盟基本權利憲章都有提到這些核心價值，我在想臺灣跟很多友臺國家進行務實外交、價值觀外交也是奠定於這個基礎之上，可是在近期歐盟商會的評論裡面，針對臺灣也許會通過兩個提案非常的有意見跟疑慮，就是藐視國會罪和國會聽證調查權，所以我想請問部長，這會不會影響到外資甚至友邦對我們產生疑慮，甚至影響到邦交國，使我們在外交上面臨一些風險、一些挫折，會不會有這樣的狀況？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個也是我們擔心的，如果說歐盟商會已經有做這方面的表達，的確是我們必須要去關心的，因為像國會的聽證調查權，以及藐視國會罪這種東西，如果真的要落實到這麼寬廣的話，那會有點像是在中國用反間諜法的方式，影響其他國家在中國正常的商業行為，這個是我們非常擔心的。我們臺灣作為一個自由、民主、開放的國家，以及非常自由開放的一個市場，會因為這種東西而受到其他國家的質疑，我們臺灣的立國根本除了我們是一個民主國家之外，我們也是一個非常蓬勃的自由經濟體制，因為這樣，會讓我們臺灣的根本受到衝擊，這個事情我們必須要去重新考慮。"],["羅委員美玲：對，這個部分是不是我們要有更多對外的解釋？因為像藐視國會罪跟國會聽證調查權如果放在價值觀外交，它是違背一些法治、人權核心價值的，所以這部分，臺灣一定要審慎以對。所以我自己本身也很擔心藐視國會罪跟國會聽證調查權通過的話，對臺灣會是一個很大、很大的傷害。另外就是外交機密的洩漏，是不是也會造成各國對我國的不信任，引發外交的危機？"],["吳部長釗燮：會。"],["羅委員美玲：我們最近一連串這些事情，是不是讓國外友好臺灣的這些國家有一些對臺灣不好的印象，甚至影響到臺灣的形象？"],["吳部長釗燮：會，第一個就是我們臺灣是一個民主國家，我們臺灣的民主憲政體制是三權分立，如果說被其他民主國家在臺代表處或者商界人士看到我們臺灣本來運作得很好的三權分立民主體制開始在模糊化，其中有一個機構……"],["羅委員美玲：被破壞了，不是被模糊化了。"],["吳部長釗燮：那對我們臺灣在國際社會上作為一個民主閃亮燈塔的名號是有斲喪的。另外就是我們跟其他國家進行的協商，我們外交部所處理的，都不適合攤在外面，否則等於是引誘中國來對我們做這些攻擊，所以如果其他的國家看到我們必須守密的這些項目不斷的攤開來的話，那對於我們臺灣在國際社會上的被信賴度也會有所影響，也會傷害到我們臺灣在國際社會上面的聲譽。"],["羅委員美玲：好，謝謝部長，目前國際對我們臺灣的認同，一切其實得來都非常的不容易，難得臺灣這幾年，尤其在疫情當中，讓全世界看到臺灣，也看到臺灣的民主發展、人權尊重等等，我們也不希望因為現在要推藐視國會罪或國會聽政調查權，或者是最近常常爭議的外交機密洩漏等等，影響到世界對臺灣的看法。以上，謝謝，外交部辛苦了。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來請王定宇委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":146,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-20","speakers":["馬文君","邱志偉","徐巧芯","羅廷瑋","林楚茵","羅智強","羅美玲","王定宇","陳永康","蘇巧慧","陳冠廷","黃仁","洪申翰","林憶君","沈伯洋","黃秀芳","黃國昌","陳菁徽","王鴻薇","莊瑞雄","李坤城","吳思瑤","郭昱晴","楊瓊瓔","范雲","陳培瑜","王正旭","林月琴","牛煦庭","翁曉玲","葉元之","張雅琳","林思銘"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2024-05-15"],"gazette_id":"1134501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「推動國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會（ 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00:01:14,480\n對,不管怎樣我們還是會在這個5月27號的時候會啟程到這個WHA去,然後呢透過像過去的這個模式舉辦周邊活動或是雙邊會談的方式來做這個進行。\n\n6\n00:01:31,292 --> 00:01:36,976\n其實中國對我國的打壓長年以來都是如此從20年前的2003年台灣面臨嚴峻的SUS到這個COVID-19的這個大浩劫其實中國從來都沒有放棄對台灣的這個打壓我放這影片是在20年前那時候台灣的記者在詢問這個中國的\n\n7\n00:01:59,968 --> 00:02:00,928\n中國對台灣還是如此的態度\n\n8\n00:02:22,513 --> 00:02:43,884\n我是覺得說我們不管做了多大的努力想要重返WHA可是這條路是非常非常的這個辛苦跟艱辛的那尤其是中國中國這十年來推動了一連串的這個政策比如說一帶一路還有2021年他所推行的全球發展創意還有2022年全球安全創意等等的\n\n9\n00:02:47,126 --> 00:02:49,529\n其實他都在挑戰這個美國主導的這個國際的這個秩序尤其是一帶一路一帶一路他針對一些發展中的國家像這個中亞或是非洲進行一個基礎建設讓這些國家其實都是導向中國所以我們再怎麼努力可是舉手的時候\n\n10\n00:03:07,788 --> 00:03:07,808\n請問部長\n\n11\n00:03:26,082 --> 00:03:41,424\n非常謝謝委員對我們參加世界衛生大會的關心的確參加世界衛生大會對我們來講是一個很艱辛的歷程但是就過去這幾年我們的經驗來看就是說我們必須要去聚沙成塔\n\n12\n00:03:41,684 --> 00:03:41,924\n﹚羅美玲議員\n\n13\n00:04:02,182 --> 00:04:22,882\n那在國際的這個輿論的氛圍方面我們也看到越來越多國家的這個國會議員也透過不同的方式來聲援我們那也可以看到像今年美國他們支持我們的這個力道是更加的這個強勁尤其是他們針對2758號決議案來做了一個非常重要的聲明所以我覺得如果說我們長此以往\n\n14\n00:04:24,703 --> 00:04:40,612\n繼續去努力爭取這些相關的友誼對於未來我們的參加是會有幫助的那委員剛剛提到一個重點就是說在聯合國或者是說相關的這個機構方面GlobalSouth就是說全球南方這整個很大的這個集團\n\n15\n00:04:41,933 --> 00:05:02,324\n由於中國的這個影響力是非常大的所以最終如果說要走到這個投票的話我相信連美國這種好朋友他們覺得說這個應該不是一條我們應該去走的路那現在就是我們必須要去逐漸累積我們的這個實力去吸引更多其他的這些好朋友來支持我們\n\n16\n00:05:04,294 --> 00:05:30,668\n謝謝,我知道外交部在這國際情勢如此嚴峻之下真的是非常非常的辛苦其實我們都看在這個眼裡我說未來我的路很艱困很艱辛可是我在想說以台灣在國際上這幾年的這個表現我想會贏得很多國家的這個肯定那我們也希望就是說真的有重返WHA的這一天啦謝謝委員\n\n17\n00:05:31,869 --> 00:05:34,752\n價值觀外交一直都是歐洲很重要的一個外交政策。價值觀外交強調的是對自由、民主、人權、法治等基本權利的尊重。\n\n18\n00:05:51,869 --> 00:06:12,783\n歐洲聯盟基本條約或李斯本條約跟歐洲聯盟基本權利憲章裏面都有提到這些核心價值我在想這些都是台灣跟很多有台的國家我們進行務實外交也是基於這些價值觀外交我們是奠定於這個基礎之上可是在近期的歐盟商會的評論裏面針對於台灣\n\n19\n00:06:18,847 --> 00:06:18,887\n﹚羅美玲\n\n20\n00:06:49,308 --> 00:07:04,498\n我們會面臨一些風險,一些挫折,會不會有這樣的狀況?這個也是我們擔心的,如果說看到歐盟商會,他們已經有做這方面的表達,像這種表達的確是我們必須要去關心的,因為像這種國會的聽證調查權以及藐視國會權,\n\n21\n00:07:09,362 --> 00:07:36,722\n國會罪的這種東西如果說真的是要去落實落實到這麼寬廣的話那會有點像是在中國他們用這種反間諜法的這種方式去影響到其他的國家在中國的這個正常的這個商業行為那這個是我們非常擔心的那我們台灣作為一個自由民主開放的這個國家以及作為非常自由開放的一個市場會因為這種東西會受到其他國家的質疑\n\n22\n00:07:37,363 --> 00:07:52,545\n我們台灣的立國根本除了我們是一個民主國家之外我們台灣也是一個非常蓬勃的自由經濟體制那如果是因為這樣子的話會讓我們台灣的這個根本受到一個衝擊那這個事情我們必須要去重新考慮\n\n23\n00:07:53,979 --> 00:08:10,146\n對這個部分的話是不是我們要有更多的這個對外的一個解釋因為像藐視國會罪跟國會聽證調查權如果是放在這個價值觀外交裡頭它是對於一些法治人權方面這是違背這個價值觀的這個核心價值\n\n24\n00:08:13,988 --> 00:08:37,094\n所以這部分的話臺灣一定要審慎於對所以我是覺得說我自己本身也很擔心苗式國會罪跟國會聽證權如果通過的話對臺灣是一個很大很大的一個傷害那另外還有就是外交機密的洩漏是不是也會造成各國對我國的不信任引發外交的危機是不是也是這樣子我們最近一連串這些事情是不是讓這個國外有\n\n25\n00:08:39,315 --> 00:09:07,726\n有好台灣的這些國外有一些對台灣不好的一些印象甚至是影響到台灣的形象會第一個就是我們台灣是一個民主國家我們台灣的這個民主憲政的體制是三權分立那如果說被其他的這個民主國家在台的這個代表處或者是說像商界的這些人士看到我們台灣的這個三權分立本來運作的很好的這個民主體制開始在模糊化其中有一個\n\n26\n00:09:08,246 --> 00:09:08,766\n李卓人議員\n\n27\n00:09:27,958 --> 00:09:47,910\n等於是引誘中國來對我們來做這些攻擊那所以如果其他的國家看到我們因為這種必須要去守密的這些項目不斷地攤開來的話那這個對於我們台灣在國際社會上面的這個被信賴度這個也會有所影響也會傷害到我們台灣在國際社會上面的這種聲譽\n\n28\n00:09:51,502 --> 00:10:12,702\n謝謝,謝謝部長我想說這些我們的目前台灣不管是在國際對我國的這個認同來講這一切其實得來都是非常的不容易難得台灣這幾年尤其在疫情當中讓全世界看到台灣那也看到台灣的民主的這個發展人權的這個尊重等等我們也不希望說因為\n\n29\n00:10:13,643 --> 00:10:13,743\n多謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n450\t1792\t謝謝主席 有請吳部長請吳部長委員好\n10204\t31456\t部長早安,我們現在回歸到今天的主題,WHA難得我們的主席有擬定了這麼好的這個題目讓大家來做質詢。5月27號呢,WHA即將在這個日內瓦舉行,到目前為止我們都還沒有收到邀約對不對?\n32637\t32677\t羅美玲議員\n54068\t54268\t難度很高,是。\n72719\t74480\t對,不管怎樣我們還是會在這個5月27號的時候會啟程到這個WHA去,然後呢透過像過去的這個模式舉辦周邊活動或是雙邊會談的方式來做這個進行。\n91292\t96976\t其實中國對我國的打壓長年以來都是如此從20年前的2003年台灣面臨嚴峻的SUS到這個COVID-19的這個大浩劫其實中國從來都沒有放棄對台灣的這個打壓我放這影片是在20年前那時候台灣的記者在詢問這個中國的\n119968\t120928\t中國對台灣還是如此的態度\n142513\t163884\t我是覺得說我們不管做了多大的努力想要重返WHA可是這條路是非常非常的這個辛苦跟艱辛的那尤其是中國中國這十年來推動了一連串的這個政策比如說一帶一路還有2021年他所推行的全球發展創意還有2022年全球安全創意等等的\n167126\t169529\t其實他都在挑戰這個美國主導的這個國際的這個秩序尤其是一帶一路一帶一路他針對一些發展中的國家像這個中亞或是非洲進行一個基礎建設讓這些國家其實都是導向中國所以我們再怎麼努力可是舉手的時候\n187788\t187808\t請問部長\n206082\t221424\t非常謝謝委員對我們參加世界衛生大會的關心的確參加世界衛生大會對我們來講是一個很艱辛的歷程但是就過去這幾年我們的經驗來看就是說我們必須要去聚沙成塔\n221684\t221924\t﹚羅美玲議員\n242182\t262882\t那在國際的這個輿論的氛圍方面我們也看到越來越多國家的這個國會議員也透過不同的方式來聲援我們那也可以看到像今年美國他們支持我們的這個力道是更加的這個強勁尤其是他們針對2758號決議案來做了一個非常重要的聲明所以我覺得如果說我們長此以往\n264703\t280612\t繼續去努力爭取這些相關的友誼對於未來我們的參加是會有幫助的那委員剛剛提到一個重點就是說在聯合國或者是說相關的這個機構方面Global South就是說全球南方這整個很大的這個集團\n281933\t302324\t由於中國的這個影響力是非常大的所以最終如果說要走到這個投票的話我相信連美國這種好朋友他們覺得說這個應該不是一條我們應該去走的路那現在就是我們必須要去逐漸累積我們的這個實力去吸引更多其他的這些好朋友來支持我們\n304294\t330668\t謝謝,我知道外交部在這國際情勢如此嚴峻之下真的是非常非常的辛苦其實我們都看在這個眼裡我說未來我的路很艱困很艱辛可是我在想說以台灣在國際上這幾年的這個表現我想會贏得很多國家的這個肯定那我們也希望就是說真的有重返WHA的這一天啦謝謝委員\n331869\t334752\t價值觀外交一直都是歐洲很重要的一個外交政策。價值觀外交強調的是對自由、民主、人權、法治等基本權利的尊重。\n351869\t372783\t歐洲聯盟基本條約或李斯本條約跟歐洲聯盟基本權利憲章裏面都有提到這些核心價值我在想這些都是台灣跟很多有台的國家我們進行務實外交也是基於這些價值觀外交我們是奠定於這個基礎之上可是在近期的歐盟商會的評論裏面針對於台灣\n378847\t378887\t﹚羅美玲\n409308\t424498\t我們會面臨一些風險,一些挫折,會不會有這樣的狀況?這個也是我們擔心的,如果說看到歐盟商會,他們已經有做這方面的表達,像這種表達的確是我們必須要去關心的,因為像這種國會的聽證調查權以及藐視國會權,\n429362\t456722\t國會罪的這種東西如果說真的是要去落實落實到這麼寬廣的話那會有點像是在中國他們用這種反間諜法的這種方式去影響到其他的國家在中國的這個正常的這個商業行為那這個是我們非常擔心的那我們台灣作為一個自由民主開放的這個國家以及作為非常自由開放的一個市場會因為這種東西會受到其他國家的質疑\n457363\t472545\t我們台灣的立國根本除了我們是一個民主國家之外我們台灣也是一個非常蓬勃的自由經濟體制那如果是因為這樣子的話會讓我們台灣的這個根本受到一個衝擊那這個事情我們必須要去重新考慮\n473979\t490146\t對 這個部分的話是不是我們要有更多的這個對外的一個解釋因為像藐視國會罪跟國會聽證調查權如果是放在這個價值觀外交裡頭它是對於一些法治人權方面這是違背這個價值觀的這個核心價值\n493988\t517094\t所以這部分的話臺灣一定要審慎於對所以我是覺得說我自己本身也很擔心苗式國會罪跟國會聽證權如果通過的話對臺灣是一個很大很大的一個傷害那另外還有就是外交機密的洩漏是不是也會造成各國對我國的不信任引發外交的危機是不是也是這樣子我們最近一連串這些事情是不是讓這個國外有\n519315\t547726\t有好台灣的這些國外有一些對台灣不好的一些印象甚至是影響到台灣的形象會第一個就是我們台灣是一個民主國家我們台灣的這個民主憲政的體制是三權分立那如果說被其他的這個民主國家在台的這個代表處或者是說像商界的這些人士看到我們台灣的這個三權分立本來運作的很好的這個民主體制開始在模糊化其中有一個\n548246\t548766\t李卓人議員\n567958\t587910\t等於是引誘中國來對我們來做這些攻擊那所以如果其他的國家看到我們因為這種必須要去守密的這些項目不斷地攤開來的話那這個對於我們台灣在國際社會上面的這個被信賴度這個也會有所影響也會傷害到我們台灣在國際社會上面的這種聲譽\n591502\t612702\t謝謝,謝謝部長我想說這些我們的目前台灣不管是在國際對我國的這個認同來講這一切其實得來都是非常的不容易難得台灣這幾年尤其在疫情當中讓全世界看到台灣那也看到台灣的民主的這個發展人權的這個尊重等等我們也不希望說因為\n613643\t613743\t多謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請吳部長請吳部長委員好\n部長早安,我們現在回歸到今天的主題,WHA難得我們的主席有擬定了這麼好的這個題目讓大家來做質詢。5月27號呢,WHA即將在這個日內瓦舉行,到目前為止我們都還沒有收到邀約對不對?\n羅美玲議員\n難度很高,是。\n對,不管怎樣我們還是會在這個5月27號的時候會啟程到這個WHA去,然後呢透過像過去的這個模式舉辦周邊活動或是雙邊會談的方式來做這個進行。\n其實中國對我國的打壓長年以來都是如此從20年前的2003年台灣面臨嚴峻的SUS到這個COVID-19的這個大浩劫其實中國從來都沒有放棄對台灣的這個打壓我放這影片是在20年前那時候台灣的記者在詢問這個中國的\n中國對台灣還是如此的態度\n我是覺得說我們不管做了多大的努力想要重返WHA可是這條路是非常非常的這個辛苦跟艱辛的那尤其是中國中國這十年來推動了一連串的這個政策比如說一帶一路還有2021年他所推行的全球發展創意還有2022年全球安全創意等等的\n其實他都在挑戰這個美國主導的這個國際的這個秩序尤其是一帶一路一帶一路他針對一些發展中的國家像這個中亞或是非洲進行一個基礎建設讓這些國家其實都是導向中國所以我們再怎麼努力可是舉手的時候\n請問部長\n非常謝謝委員對我們參加世界衛生大會的關心的確參加世界衛生大會對我們來講是一個很艱辛的歷程但是就過去這幾年我們的經驗來看就是說我們必須要去聚沙成塔\n﹚羅美玲議員\n那在國際的這個輿論的氛圍方面我們也看到越來越多國家的這個國會議員也透過不同的方式來聲援我們那也可以看到像今年美國他們支持我們的這個力道是更加的這個強勁尤其是他們針對2758號決議案來做了一個非常重要的聲明所以我覺得如果說我們長此以往\n繼續去努力爭取這些相關的友誼對於未來我們的參加是會有幫助的那委員剛剛提到一個重點就是說在聯合國或者是說相關的這個機構方面Global South就是說全球南方這整個很大的這個集團\n由於中國的這個影響力是非常大的所以最終如果說要走到這個投票的話我相信連美國這種好朋友他們覺得說這個應該不是一條我們應該去走的路那現在就是我們必須要去逐漸累積我們的這個實力去吸引更多其他的這些好朋友來支持我們\n謝謝,我知道外交部在這國際情勢如此嚴峻之下真的是非常非常的辛苦其實我們都看在這個眼裡我說未來我的路很艱困很艱辛可是我在想說以台灣在國際上這幾年的這個表現我想會贏得很多國家的這個肯定那我們也希望就是說真的有重返WHA的這一天啦謝謝委員\n價值觀外交一直都是歐洲很重要的一個外交政策。價值觀外交強調的是對自由、民主、人權、法治等基本權利的尊重。\n歐洲聯盟基本條約或李斯本條約跟歐洲聯盟基本權利憲章裏面都有提到這些核心價值我在想這些都是台灣跟很多有台的國家我們進行務實外交也是基於這些價值觀外交我們是奠定於這個基礎之上可是在近期的歐盟商會的評論裏面針對於台灣\n﹚羅美玲\n我們會面臨一些風險,一些挫折,會不會有這樣的狀況?這個也是我們擔心的,如果說看到歐盟商會,他們已經有做這方面的表達,像這種表達的確是我們必須要去關心的,因為像這種國會的聽證調查權以及藐視國會權,\n國會罪的這種東西如果說真的是要去落實落實到這麼寬廣的話那會有點像是在中國他們用這種反間諜法的這種方式去影響到其他的國家在中國的這個正常的這個商業行為那這個是我們非常擔心的那我們台灣作為一個自由民主開放的這個國家以及作為非常自由開放的一個市場會因為這種東西會受到其他國家的質疑\n我們台灣的立國根本除了我們是一個民主國家之外我們台灣也是一個非常蓬勃的自由經濟體制那如果是因為這樣子的話會讓我們台灣的這個根本受到一個衝擊那這個事情我們必須要去重新考慮\n對 這個部分的話是不是我們要有更多的這個對外的一個解釋因為像藐視國會罪跟國會聽證調查權如果是放在這個價值觀外交裡頭它是對於一些法治人權方面這是違背這個價值觀的這個核心價值\n所以這部分的話臺灣一定要審慎於對所以我是覺得說我自己本身也很擔心苗式國會罪跟國會聽證權如果通過的話對臺灣是一個很大很大的一個傷害那另外還有就是外交機密的洩漏是不是也會造成各國對我國的不信任引發外交的危機是不是也是這樣子我們最近一連串這些事情是不是讓這個國外有\n有好台灣的這些國外有一些對台灣不好的一些印象甚至是影響到台灣的形象會第一個就是我們台灣是一個民主國家我們台灣的這個民主憲政的體制是三權分立那如果說被其他的這個民主國家在台的這個代表處或者是說像商界的這些人士看到我們台灣的這個三權分立本來運作的很好的這個民主體制開始在模糊化其中有一個\n李卓人議員\n等於是引誘中國來對我們來做這些攻擊那所以如果其他的國家看到我們因為這種必須要去守密的這些項目不斷地攤開來的話那這個對於我們台灣在國際社會上面的這個被信賴度這個也會有所影響也會傷害到我們台灣在國際社會上面的這種聲譽\n謝謝,謝謝部長我想說這些我們的目前台灣不管是在國際對我國的這個認同來講這一切其實得來都是非常的不容易難得台灣這幾年尤其在疫情當中讓全世界看到台灣那也看到台灣的民主的這個發展人權的這個尊重等等我們也不希望說因為\n多謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.450 --> 00:01.792\n謝謝主席有請吳部長請吳部長委員好\n\n00:10.204 --> 00:31.456\n部長早安,我們現在回歸到今天的主題,WHA難得我們的主席有擬定了這麼好的這個題目讓大家來做質詢。5月27號呢,WHA即將在這個日內瓦舉行,到目前為止我們都還沒有收到邀約對不對?\n\n00:32.637 --> 00:32.677\n羅美玲議員\n\n00:54.068 --> 00:54.268\n難度很高,是。\n\n01:12.719 --> 01:14.480\n對,不管怎樣我們還是會在這個5月27號的時候會啟程到這個WHA去,然後呢透過像過去的這個模式舉辦周邊活動或是雙邊會談的方式來做這個進行。\n\n01:31.292 --> 01:36.976\n其實中國對我國的打壓長年以來都是如此從20年前的2003年台灣面臨嚴峻的SUS到這個COVID-19的這個大浩劫其實中國從來都沒有放棄對台灣的這個打壓我放這影片是在20年前那時候台灣的記者在詢問這個中國的\n\n01:59.968 --> 02:00.928\n中國對台灣還是如此的態度\n\n02:22.513 --> 02:43.884\n我是覺得說我們不管做了多大的努力想要重返WHA可是這條路是非常非常的這個辛苦跟艱辛的那尤其是中國中國這十年來推動了一連串的這個政策比如說一帶一路還有2021年他所推行的全球發展創意還有2022年全球安全創意等等的\n\n02:47.126 --> 02:49.529\n其實他都在挑戰這個美國主導的這個國際的這個秩序尤其是一帶一路一帶一路他針對一些發展中的國家像這個中亞或是非洲進行一個基礎建設讓這些國家其實都是導向中國所以我們再怎麼努力可是舉手的時候\n\n03:07.788 --> 03:07.808\n請問部長\n\n03:26.082 --> 03:41.424\n非常謝謝委員對我們參加世界衛生大會的關心的確參加世界衛生大會對我們來講是一個很艱辛的歷程但是就過去這幾年我們的經驗來看就是說我們必須要去聚沙成塔\n\n03:41.684 --> 03:41.924\n﹚羅美玲議員\n\n04:02.182 --> 04:22.882\n那在國際的這個輿論的氛圍方面我們也看到越來越多國家的這個國會議員也透過不同的方式來聲援我們那也可以看到像今年美國他們支持我們的這個力道是更加的這個強勁尤其是他們針對2758號決議案來做了一個非常重要的聲明所以我覺得如果說我們長此以往\n\n04:24.703 --> 04:40.612\n繼續去努力爭取這些相關的友誼對於未來我們的參加是會有幫助的那委員剛剛提到一個重點就是說在聯合國或者是說相關的這個機構方面GlobalSouth就是說全球南方這整個很大的這個集團\n\n04:41.933 --> 05:02.324\n由於中國的這個影響力是非常大的所以最終如果說要走到這個投票的話我相信連美國這種好朋友他們覺得說這個應該不是一條我們應該去走的路那現在就是我們必須要去逐漸累積我們的這個實力去吸引更多其他的這些好朋友來支持我們\n\n05:04.294 --> 05:30.668\n謝謝,我知道外交部在這國際情勢如此嚴峻之下真的是非常非常的辛苦其實我們都看在這個眼裡我說未來我的路很艱困很艱辛可是我在想說以台灣在國際上這幾年的這個表現我想會贏得很多國家的這個肯定那我們也希望就是說真的有重返WHA的這一天啦謝謝委員\n\n05:31.869 --> 05:34.752\n價值觀外交一直都是歐洲很重要的一個外交政策。價值觀外交強調的是對自由、民主、人權、法治等基本權利的尊重。\n\n05:51.869 --> 06:12.783\n歐洲聯盟基本條約或李斯本條約跟歐洲聯盟基本權利憲章裏面都有提到這些核心價值我在想這些都是台灣跟很多有台的國家我們進行務實外交也是基於這些價值觀外交我們是奠定於這個基礎之上可是在近期的歐盟商會的評論裏面針對於台灣\n\n06:18.847 --> 06:18.887\n﹚羅美玲\n\n06:49.308 --> 07:04.498\n我們會面臨一些風險,一些挫折,會不會有這樣的狀況?這個也是我們擔心的,如果說看到歐盟商會,他們已經有做這方面的表達,像這種表達的確是我們必須要去關心的,因為像這種國會的聽證調查權以及藐視國會權,\n\n07:09.362 --> 07:36.722\n國會罪的這種東西如果說真的是要去落實落實到這麼寬廣的話那會有點像是在中國他們用這種反間諜法的這種方式去影響到其他的國家在中國的這個正常的這個商業行為那這個是我們非常擔心的那我們台灣作為一個自由民主開放的這個國家以及作為非常自由開放的一個市場會因為這種東西會受到其他國家的質疑\n\n07:37.363 --> 07:52.545\n我們台灣的立國根本除了我們是一個民主國家之外我們台灣也是一個非常蓬勃的自由經濟體制那如果是因為這樣子的話會讓我們台灣的這個根本受到一個衝擊那這個事情我們必須要去重新考慮\n\n07:53.979 --> 08:10.146\n對這個部分的話是不是我們要有更多的這個對外的一個解釋因為像藐視國會罪跟國會聽證調查權如果是放在這個價值觀外交裡頭它是對於一些法治人權方面這是違背這個價值觀的這個核心價值\n\n08:13.988 --> 08:37.094\n所以這部分的話臺灣一定要審慎於對所以我是覺得說我自己本身也很擔心苗式國會罪跟國會聽證權如果通過的話對臺灣是一個很大很大的一個傷害那另外還有就是外交機密的洩漏是不是也會造成各國對我國的不信任引發外交的危機是不是也是這樣子我們最近一連串這些事情是不是讓這個國外有\n\n08:39.315 --> 09:07.726\n有好台灣的這些國外有一些對台灣不好的一些印象甚至是影響到台灣的形象會第一個就是我們台灣是一個民主國家我們台灣的這個民主憲政的體制是三權分立那如果說被其他的這個民主國家在台的這個代表處或者是說像商界的這些人士看到我們台灣的這個三權分立本來運作的很好的這個民主體制開始在模糊化其中有一個\n\n09:08.246 --> 09:08.766\n李卓人議員\n\n09:27.958 --> 09:47.910\n等於是引誘中國來對我們來做這些攻擊那所以如果其他的國家看到我們因為這種必須要去守密的這些項目不斷地攤開來的話那這個對於我們台灣在國際社會上面的這個被信賴度這個也會有所影響也會傷害到我們台灣在國際社會上面的這種聲譽\n\n09:51.502 --> 10:12.702\n謝謝,謝謝部長我想說這些我們的目前台灣不管是在國際對我國的這個認同來講這一切其實得來都是非常的不容易難得台灣這幾年尤其在疫情當中讓全世界看到台灣那也看到台灣的民主的這個發展人權的這個尊重等等我們也不希望說因為\n\n10:13.643 --> 10:13.743\n多謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.45,"end":1.792,"text":"謝謝主席 有請吳部長請吳部長委員好"},{"start":10.204,"end":31.456,"text":"部長早安,我們現在回歸到今天的主題,WHA難得我們的主席有擬定了這麼好的這個題目讓大家來做質詢。5月27號呢,WHA即將在這個日內瓦舉行,到目前為止我們都還沒有收到邀約對不對?"},{"start":32.637,"end":32.677,"text":"羅美玲議員"},{"start":54.068,"end":54.268,"text":"難度很高,是。"},{"start":72.719,"end":74.48,"text":"對,不管怎樣我們還是會在這個5月27號的時候會啟程到這個WHA去,然後呢透過像過去的這個模式舉辦周邊活動或是雙邊會談的方式來做這個進行。"},{"start":91.292,"end":96.976,"text":"其實中國對我國的打壓長年以來都是如此從20年前的2003年台灣面臨嚴峻的SUS到這個COVID-19的這個大浩劫其實中國從來都沒有放棄對台灣的這個打壓我放這影片是在20年前那時候台灣的記者在詢問這個中國的"},{"start":119.968,"end":120.928,"text":"中國對台灣還是如此的態度"},{"start":142.513,"end":163.884,"text":"我是覺得說我們不管做了多大的努力想要重返WHA可是這條路是非常非常的這個辛苦跟艱辛的那尤其是中國中國這十年來推動了一連串的這個政策比如說一帶一路還有2021年他所推行的全球發展創意還有2022年全球安全創意等等的"},{"start":167.126,"end":169.529,"text":"其實他都在挑戰這個美國主導的這個國際的這個秩序尤其是一帶一路一帶一路他針對一些發展中的國家像這個中亞或是非洲進行一個基礎建設讓這些國家其實都是導向中國所以我們再怎麼努力可是舉手的時候"},{"start":187.788,"end":187.808,"text":"請問部長"},{"start":206.082,"end":221.424,"text":"非常謝謝委員對我們參加世界衛生大會的關心的確參加世界衛生大會對我們來講是一個很艱辛的歷程但是就過去這幾年我們的經驗來看就是說我們必須要去聚沙成塔"},{"start":221.684,"end":221.924,"text":"﹚羅美玲議員"},{"start":242.182,"end":262.882,"text":"那在國際的這個輿論的氛圍方面我們也看到越來越多國家的這個國會議員也透過不同的方式來聲援我們那也可以看到像今年美國他們支持我們的這個力道是更加的這個強勁尤其是他們針對2758號決議案來做了一個非常重要的聲明所以我覺得如果說我們長此以往"},{"start":264.703,"end":280.612,"text":"繼續去努力爭取這些相關的友誼對於未來我們的參加是會有幫助的那委員剛剛提到一個重點就是說在聯合國或者是說相關的這個機構方面Global South就是說全球南方這整個很大的這個集團"},{"start":281.933,"end":302.324,"text":"由於中國的這個影響力是非常大的所以最終如果說要走到這個投票的話我相信連美國這種好朋友他們覺得說這個應該不是一條我們應該去走的路那現在就是我們必須要去逐漸累積我們的這個實力去吸引更多其他的這些好朋友來支持我們"},{"start":304.294,"end":330.668,"text":"謝謝,我知道外交部在這國際情勢如此嚴峻之下真的是非常非常的辛苦其實我們都看在這個眼裡我說未來我的路很艱困很艱辛可是我在想說以台灣在國際上這幾年的這個表現我想會贏得很多國家的這個肯定那我們也希望就是說真的有重返WHA的這一天啦謝謝委員"},{"start":331.869,"end":334.752,"text":"價值觀外交一直都是歐洲很重要的一個外交政策。價值觀外交強調的是對自由、民主、人權、法治等基本權利的尊重。"},{"start":351.869,"end":372.783,"text":"歐洲聯盟基本條約或李斯本條約跟歐洲聯盟基本權利憲章裏面都有提到這些核心價值我在想這些都是台灣跟很多有台的國家我們進行務實外交也是基於這些價值觀外交我們是奠定於這個基礎之上可是在近期的歐盟商會的評論裏面針對於台灣"},{"start":378.847,"end":378.887,"text":"﹚羅美玲"},{"start":409.308,"end":424.498,"text":"我們會面臨一些風險,一些挫折,會不會有這樣的狀況?這個也是我們擔心的,如果說看到歐盟商會,他們已經有做這方面的表達,像這種表達的確是我們必須要去關心的,因為像這種國會的聽證調查權以及藐視國會權,"},{"start":429.362,"end":456.722,"text":"國會罪的這種東西如果說真的是要去落實落實到這麼寬廣的話那會有點像是在中國他們用這種反間諜法的這種方式去影響到其他的國家在中國的這個正常的這個商業行為那這個是我們非常擔心的那我們台灣作為一個自由民主開放的這個國家以及作為非常自由開放的一個市場會因為這種東西會受到其他國家的質疑"},{"start":457.363,"end":472.545,"text":"我們台灣的立國根本除了我們是一個民主國家之外我們台灣也是一個非常蓬勃的自由經濟體制那如果是因為這樣子的話會讓我們台灣的這個根本受到一個衝擊那這個事情我們必須要去重新考慮"},{"start":473.979,"end":490.146,"text":"對 這個部分的話是不是我們要有更多的這個對外的一個解釋因為像藐視國會罪跟國會聽證調查權如果是放在這個價值觀外交裡頭它是對於一些法治人權方面這是違背這個價值觀的這個核心價值"},{"start":493.988,"end":517.094,"text":"所以這部分的話臺灣一定要審慎於對所以我是覺得說我自己本身也很擔心苗式國會罪跟國會聽證權如果通過的話對臺灣是一個很大很大的一個傷害那另外還有就是外交機密的洩漏是不是也會造成各國對我國的不信任引發外交的危機是不是也是這樣子我們最近一連串這些事情是不是讓這個國外有"},{"start":519.315,"end":547.726,"text":"有好台灣的這些國外有一些對台灣不好的一些印象甚至是影響到台灣的形象會第一個就是我們台灣是一個民主國家我們台灣的這個民主憲政的體制是三權分立那如果說被其他的這個民主國家在台的這個代表處或者是說像商界的這些人士看到我們台灣的這個三權分立本來運作的很好的這個民主體制開始在模糊化其中有一個"},{"start":548.246,"end":548.766,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":567.958,"end":587.91,"text":"等於是引誘中國來對我們來做這些攻擊那所以如果其他的國家看到我們因為這種必須要去守密的這些項目不斷地攤開來的話那這個對於我們台灣在國際社會上面的這個被信賴度這個也會有所影響也會傷害到我們台灣在國際社會上面的這種聲譽"},{"start":591.502,"end":612.702,"text":"謝謝,謝謝部長我想說這些我們的目前台灣不管是在國際對我國的這個認同來講這一切其實得來都是非常的不容易難得台灣這幾年尤其在疫情當中讓全世界看到台灣那也看到台灣的民主的這個發展人權的這個尊重等等我們也不希望說因為"},{"start":613.643,"end":613.743,"text":"多謝委員"}]}}}}