{"id":152513,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152513","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7786a6f84a6532c0baf5aea499d69584ad847f93a84224faabc25b9e10ac7e4542ffa54afed2a8c25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"10:14:45 - 10:28:27","影片長度":"00:13:42","會議時間":"2024-05-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「推動國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會（WHA）執行現況」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-15","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-20"},"duration":822,"end_time":"2024-05-15T10:28:27+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-15T10:14:45+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":425,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（10時14分）謝謝主席，有請吳部長。"],["主席：請吳部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：委員早。"],["林委員楚茵：部長好。有始有終，對於艱難的外交工作而言，其實也是這樣，我相信一棒接一棒，在您手上所打下的基礎，下一棒會做得更好。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員。"],["林委員楚茵：今天既然流行所謂的open book隨堂考，面對您最後一次質詢，我想我也來開個隨堂考好了，我等一下會秀幾張照片，看看您認不認識照片上面的人。首先從您鏡頭上所看到的最右邊開始，這一位您認識嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個是……"],["林委員楚茵：時任國民黨總統候選人，他在造勢場合上面講了四個字叫做「恁爸等你」，您知道是誰吧？"],["吳部長釗燮：我們的院長……"],["林委員楚茵：我們立法院的院長對不對？"],["吳部長釗燮：我應該澄清一下是你們的院長。"],["林委員楚茵：對。"],["吳部長釗燮：sorry，是我們國家的立法院長。"],["林委員楚茵：好的，中間這一位過去我在跑新聞的時候，也號稱立法院小辣椒，他在立法院好像也曾經被認為是爆粗口，叫做「恁祖媽」啦！再來就是剛剛也有質詢您的徐巧芯委員，我會秀這張照片是因為……這些都是電視臺上面的截圖，有的是講閩南語，有的就是用發音，像以老子來說，如果以我這個年紀，我不知道現場的大家有沒有讀過那一篇叫做「老子都不老子了」？竟然出現在課本裡面，所以課本是公然叫我們講不好的話嗎？我想先考部長的是，老子等不等於「恁爸」？"],["吳部長釗燮：非常非常的接近，如果不等於的話，也是非常非常的接近啦！"],["林委員楚茵：只是語言的不同嘛，對不對？"],["吳部長釗燮：只是語言的不同。我記得以前還有一位也是高層的政府官員，他在對外說明的時候說「爺兒們」，跟「恁爸」是很接近的意思，只是在不同背景之下的一種呈現。我剛剛講的臺灣話的這個字，是因為我們鄉下人……我是來自於鄉下，這個根本我是沒有辦法忘記的，因為我本身就是鄉下長大的，鄉下人見面碰到，在講到自己的時候都是用這個字來形容，所以沒有任何不敬的意思。"],["林委員楚茵：其實本席會提問這個問題就是說，我相信語言的使用不應該因為講臺語，或者是人家講的中文、華語，同樣的稱謂就會被認為好像不禮貌，但確實是看場合要把話講清楚。今天本席也希望在質詢的過程當中，因為我們要做國際外交，我們也得講對方聽得懂的話，在國際外交、國際組織當中，我們要用他們的語言，包括為什麼蕭美琴大使，我們未來的副總統，在美國可以表現得這麼好，就是因為他所使用的語文、語彙，雖然同樣都是英文，但是可以讓美國友邦的友人感受到那種親切感。"],["吳部長釗燮：對，沒錯。"],["林委員楚茵：所以本席希望的是……你也好好解釋一下，因為剛剛前面幾位都沒有讓你解釋，因為我是記者出身，我非常瞭解，在最後的餐會當中，大家一定就是覺得接下來可能工作上面沒有機會見到，但是私底下大家可能是好朋友，請問這個彩帶是你自己做、自己掛上去的嗎？還是……"],["吳部長釗燮：不是……"],["林委員楚茵：怎麼會有這樣的照片出來？因為現在MOFA Taiwan社群媒體當中出現了，以至於好像變成是你在挑釁，你在挑釁特定的委員嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有。"],["林委員楚茵：你在挑釁特定的國家嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有。我今天已經說明過幾次，我在這邊也說明一下，就是上禮拜五，我跟跑外交線的記者聯誼會有一個茶敘，也跟他們做一個很深入的背景說明，大家都很高興，其中聯誼會的會長他就先做了這一個東西要呈送給我，這個本意就是一個幽默。對於這種幽默的話，大家的相處就會更好，所以他幽默來，我也幽默回去，意思就是這樣子而已。"],["林委員楚茵：所以現在被無限上綱說你好像是對著某個委員來……"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有，不是那個意思。"],["林委員楚茵：也不是？"],["吳部長釗燮：不是那個意思。"],["林委員楚茵：好，話說清楚最重要，誤會就是要解開，外交上不也是這樣嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：是。"],["林委員楚茵：但是有些事情我覺得還是要講清楚，前面我們就當作是一個open book隨堂考，你算過關，但是有關於我們簽訂的協定跟備忘錄，確實是有機敏之分，我大概整理了第10屆第8會期到現在第11屆第1會期當中，外交部送到立法院的相關議約，包括現在最紅的烏克蘭重建初級醫療照護量能，被打上黃色的部分都是以備忘錄或密件的方式來處理，有些其實是可以公開，請問這個為什麼是密件？為什麼有些可以送來、不是密件？它所評定的過程是什麼？因為我也曾經在這裡問過國安局蔡局長，他說這是由主官來決定，現在可不可以讓我們知道為什麼？難道說因為這是有採購嗎？還是說因為在採購的過程當中就有錢的問題？但是我們來看一下，比如說跟土瓦魯外交人員的訓練，或者是外交度假打工，這個並沒有採購的合約，但是為什麼有些是密件？評等的等級到底是什麼？難道說真的是外交部隨便開心嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：不是，要列什麼樣的密等，都是我們處理的同仁跟他們單位的長官，必須要仔細地去檢視和考慮說這個事情傳出去的話，會不會影響到我們跟這一個友好國家的關係，或者是影響到我們在國際社會受到中國更多的打壓，在我們的同仁討論決定之後，覺得這個事情沒有問題了，那我們就用一般件來處理；另外有一些就是覺得這個公開來講，可能會吸引到中國的打壓，會影響到我們的雙邊關係等等，那就會用密件來處理。有些是NGO之間的簽訂，這個不是在國家締約法上面的規範，那這個就不能夠用密件來處理，所以是有不同的方式。每一個要列密件或者是不列密件，都必須要經過我們同仁很仔細地去討論。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以言下之意就是我們在處理外交工作的時候，因為臺灣特殊的困境，包括中國的因素在內，就以捷克或者是其他我用黃色所標註的部分來講，都是因為一旦先公開了，可能會有其他的狀況橫生枝節，或是造成我們的友邦在處理的程序上面備受壓力，甚至可能破局，是不是？"],["吳部長釗燮：是，沒有錯。"],["林委員楚茵：但是密件就不能監督嗎？我要來……"],["吳部長釗燮：還是可以監督。"],["林委員楚茵：我們依法論法，其實我們國際合作是依法有據，包括國際合作發展法相關的規定都有特別提到，就是會定期的跟合作的國家及機關來共同辦理計畫的監督是嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：是。"],["林委員楚茵：所以在監督的過程中，剛剛前面委員也有特別提到包括你採購的項目、金額怎麼使用，然後包括別的國家都已經公開等等，如果立法院要監督的話，我們開秘密會議、機密會議，外交部可以來報告嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：當然可以，不管是公開或者是秘密，只要委員會的主席發函到我們這邊來，我們就必須來面對立法院。"],["林委員楚茵：好，也就是剛剛提出來的這些疑問或疑惑，其實都可以在立法院當中被監督？"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有錯。"],["林委員楚茵：如果現在有委員提出來說這些國外期刊已經登出來了，這會不會變成是我們反過來指揮人家？當你們在訂定相關監督的時候，跟對方如何達成一個共識？畢竟當我們把錢捐到我們友邦的過程中，人家就是在內政當中做處理，當他們在內政當中處理的時候，我們怎麼訂定監督的議程能夠透明公開，但又不影響、干涉到他國內政？"],["吳部長釗燮：有幾點跟委員說明，有一部分必須讓人民知道，比如我們跟捷克之間簽訂一個MOU，這個MOU簽好之後，我們在去年12月1號也有告訴國人這一個事情，我們跟捷克一起去協助烏克蘭，這是必須要公開的。有關內容的部分，也就是捷克這家期刊的部分，其實他們對外透露的跟我們新聞稿的性質是一樣的。至於這個約本身，如果它是列密的話，我們這邊不會對外提供，捷克方面也不會對外提供。至於監督方面，其實每一個MOU裡面都有成立一個共同監督委員會來監督執行，這個監督委員會也有我們的人參與，這是共同監督的事情，所以立法院監督我們，或者是我們政府在監督這一件事情的執行，或者是對方要跟我們報告，這些事情我們都必須要有百分之百的掌握。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我知道這個事情鬧到連捷克、我們的友邦都會認為奇怪，臺灣好像先捐了一筆錢給他們，之後換成國會議員在質疑用錢不當，這種感覺很像是我們伸手去講人家家裡的事情，但是因為錢來自於我們這裡，所以我很明確地想問，如果按照這個合約，最後他們還是會告訴我們怎麼使用這一筆善款……"],["吳部長釗燮：會，他們會給我們一個報告。"],["林委員楚茵：這個報告大概是什麼時候會出來？"],["吳部長釗燮：大概每半年會有一個報告，這叫做期中報告。"],["林委員楚茵：好，每半年會有期中報告，如果以今年1月、2月你們送進來簽訂的期程，也就是可能在6月、7月就有他們第一批使用善款的狀況，會有一個報告？"],["吳部長釗燮：對。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我們其實還是期待這個報告，因為有關於機密的部分，我們還是要遵守外交部所核定的密件等級，我們希望未來也不要在國際上做一些MOU協定的時候，變成是人家質疑我們的一個部分。","另外，我在想中美之間的貿易戰到底會不會影響到臺灣？今天的最新訊息是拜登宣布中國產的這些產品要加徵關稅，當然他也強調要維護臺海和平，其中拜登宣布180億的中國進口商品要開徵新關稅的部分，外交部事前有掌握嗎？有瞭解嗎？怎麼來評估現在全球在面對中國的時候，尤其是以美國為首所形成的整體貿易戰對臺灣的影響？"],["吳部長釗燮：非常謝謝委員的這個問題，有關美方針對中國產品加徵關稅的部分都有在做討論，也一直有讓我們知道那個部分的狀況。至於細節的部分，比如要加徵100%、25%等等，我們事前有一些資訊，但沒有百分之百的掌握，只是知道這個方向確定了。即使現在是川普政府，而不是拜登政府，我相信他們的方向也差不多，他們做這個事情的最主要原因是因為他們覺得中國方面有不當的國家補貼，造成不公平的貿易競爭，所以針對這種不公平的貿易，他們就用關稅作為手段來處理這些問題。至於對臺灣會不會有所影響，有可能正面、也有可能負面，負面的部分是會不會造成國際經濟的動盪，因為很重要的是我們是一個依賴國際貿易的國家，這也有可能影響、波及到我們臺灣。但是正面的部分是如果我們臺灣的類似產品具有競爭力，而且我們沒有做不公平競爭的話，相信我們臺灣在國際社會上的產品流通還會更多。"],["林委員楚茵：我關心這部分是因為接下來520之後，新內閣要上任，像這樣的問題可能不只是外交，還包括經濟、我們整體的供應鏈跟臺灣對外貿易的相關部分，可能就要請我們未來的秘書長多多關注這個部分，提供更多的資訊，謝謝。"],["吳部長釗燮：謝謝委員，以後還要多跟委員請教。"],["主席：接下來請蘇巧慧委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":146,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-20","speakers":["馬文君","邱志偉","徐巧芯","羅廷瑋","林楚茵","羅智強","羅美玲","王定宇","陳永康","蘇巧慧","陳冠廷","黃仁","洪申翰","林憶君","沈伯洋","黃秀芳","黃國昌","陳菁徽","王鴻薇","莊瑞雄","李坤城","吳思瑤","郭昱晴","楊瓊瓔","范雲","陳培瑜","王正旭","林月琴","牛煦庭","翁曉玲","葉元之","張雅琳","林思銘"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2024-05-15"],"gazette_id":"1134501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「推動國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會（ WHA）執行現況」，併\n請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134501_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152513","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152513","tool":"pyannote","id":"152513-pyannote"},"job_id":"ixqBWiD3F1FTwR6F","queued_at":"2024-05-31 08:03:40","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 08:03:40","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152513"},{"time":"2024-05-31 08:03:41","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7786a6f84a6532c0baf5aea499d69584ad847f93a84224fac6ec2d211e1272d9ef8793f6cc39c8165ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-31 08:04:03","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-31 08:04:06","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-05-31 08:04:18","msg":"status: 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821.415, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 821.415, \"end\": 821.535, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 821.535, \"end\": 821.756, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 821.756, \"end\": 821.896, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 821.896, \"end\": 821.996, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 821.996, \"end\": 822.016, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,563 --> 00:00:02,523\n謝謝主席主席有請吳部長請吳部長委員長部長好這個有始有終我想對於這個艱難的外交工作其實也是這樣我相信是一棒接一棒那麼在您手上所打下的基礎下一棒會做得更好那麼今天既然流行所謂的這個openbook隨堂考那麼\n\n2\n00:00:27,574 --> 00:00:54,682\n面對您最後一次質詢我想說那我也來開個隨康考好了我等一下會秀幾張照片看看您認不認識照片上面的人首先從您鏡頭上所看到的最右邊開始這一位您認識嗎?實任國民黨總統候選人他在造勢場合上面講了四個字叫做林北丹利他現在是他現在您知道是誰吧?\n\n3\n00:00:56,086 --> 00:01:24,794\n我們的院長我們立法院的院長對不對我應該澄清一下是你們的院長對對對是我們國家的立法院長好的那這個中間這一位呢算是過去我在跑新聞的時候也號稱立法院小辣椒啦那麼他好像在立法院也曾經說過了被認為是爆粗口叫做林周罵啦好那再來就是剛剛也有質詢您的他\n\n4\n00:01:25,574 --> 00:01:48,986\n講的這位徐巧欣委員那麼我會秀這張照片是因為這些都是電視台上面的截圖有的是講閩南語但是也有就用發音像以老子來說如果以我這個年紀我是不知道現場的大家有沒有讀過那一篇叫做老子都不老子了竟然出現在課本裡面所以課本是公然叫我們講\n\n5\n00:01:50,486 --> 00:01:50,606\n邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告\n\n6\n00:02:12,660 --> 00:02:38,303\n跟那個林北是很接近的這種意思只是說在不同的這個背景之下的一種呈現那我剛剛講的這個臺灣話的這個字是因為我們鄉下人我是來自於鄉下那這個根本我是沒有辦法去忘記的因為我本身就是鄉下長大的那鄉下人在碰到見面的時候在講到自己的時候都是用這個字來形容所以沒有任何不敬的意思\n\n7\n00:02:38,703 --> 00:03:02,148\n好其實本席會提問這個就是說我相信語言的使用不應該因為講台語或者是怎樣講的中文華語同樣的稱謂就會被認為好像有不禮貌但是真的確實是看個場合把話要講清楚今天本席也希望說在質詢的過程當中因為我們要做國際外交啊我們也得講\n\n8\n00:03:02,948 --> 00:03:30,801\n對方聽得懂的話在國際外交國際組織當中我們要用他們的語言包括為什麼蕭美琴蕭大使我們未來的副總統在美國可以表現的這麼好那就是因為他所使用的語文語彙雖然同樣都是英文但是可以讓我們的美國友邦的友人覺得感受那種親切感所以本席希望的是來你也好好解釋一下因為剛剛前面幾位都沒有讓你解釋因為我是記者出身我非常了解\n\n9\n00:03:31,741 --> 00:03:53,344\n最後的這個參會當中大家一定就是覺得欸接下來可能工作上面沒有機會見到但是呢私底下大家可能是好朋友請問這個彩帶是你自己做自己掛上去的嗎還是怎麼會有這樣的照片出來因為就是這個我們現在講的MOFATaiwan的這個社群媒體當中出現了\n\n10\n00:03:54,525 --> 00:04:07,917\n然後以至於呢好像變成是你在挑釁你在挑釁特定的委員嗎沒有你在挑釁特定的國家嗎沒有我今天已經說明過幾次我在這邊也說明一下就是上禮拜五\n\n11\n00:04:09,057 --> 00:04:34,791\n我跟那個跑外交線的這個記者聯誼會跟他們做一個查序也跟他們做一個很深入的這個背景說明那大家都很高興那其中聯誼會的會長他就先做了這一個東西要呈送給我那這個本意就是一個幽默那對於這種幽默的話那大家的相處就會更好所以他幽默來啊我也幽默回去意思就是這樣子而已\n\n12\n00:04:35,242 --> 00:04:54,021\n所以現在被吳釗燮剛說你好像是對著某個委員來沒有不是那個意思也不是不是那個意思好我希望這個話說清楚最重要訴會就是要解開嘛外交上不也是這樣嗎但是有些事情我覺得還是要講清楚前面我們就當作是一個openbook你算過關好\n\n13\n00:04:55,222 --> 00:05:11,632\n但是有關於我們簽訂的這些所謂的協定跟備忘錄其實確實是有機敏之分我大概整理了我們第10屆第8會期到現在第11屆第1會期當中外交部送到立法院的相關議約包括有現在最紅的烏克蘭重建\n\n14\n00:05:15,050 --> 00:05:40,508\n現在被打上黃色的部分其實都是以備忘錄或密件的方式來處理那麼有些其實是可以公開請問這個為什麼是密件為什麼有些可以送來不是密件他所評定的過程是什麼因為我也曾經在這裡問過國安局的蔡局長他說這個是由主官來決定現在可不可以讓我們知道那為什麼\n\n15\n00:05:42,569 --> 00:06:02,186\n難道說是因為這是有採購嗎還是說是因為採購的過程當中就有錢的問題但是我們來看一下比如說跟土瓦魯外交人員的訓練或者是外交度假打工這個沒有採購的合約但是為什麼有些是密件所以平等的等級到底是什麼難道說真的是外交部隨便開心嗎\n\n16\n00:06:03,147 --> 00:06:26,732\n不是,那個要列什麼樣的這個密等都是我們的那個處理的同仁跟他們單位的這種長官必須要去仔細的去檢視和考慮說這個事情出去的話會不會影響到我們跟這一個友好國家的關係或者是說影響到那個我們在國際社會上面受到中國更多的這些打壓\n\n17\n00:06:27,532 --> 00:06:48,884\n那在我們的同仁討論決定之後覺得說這個事情沒有問題了那我們就用一般件來處理那另外有一些就是說覺得這個公開來講可能會吸引到中國的這種打壓會影響到我們的雙邊關係等等的那就會用密件來處理那有些是這種NGO之間的這個簽訂那這個不是在那個締約\n\n18\n00:06:53,467 --> 00:06:59,049\n所以言下之意就是我們在處理外交工作的時候因為台灣特殊的困境包括中國的因素在內就以像捷克又或者是其他我現在黃色所標註的都是因為一旦\n\n19\n00:07:22,515 --> 00:07:37,785\n先公開了可能會有其他的狀況恆生之節或是造成我們的友邦在處理的程序上面備受壓力甚至於可能破局是不是但是密件就不能監督嗎我要來就是我們依法論法其實我們國際合作是依法有據包括我們國際合作發展法相關的規定都有特別提到就是會\n\n20\n00:07:48,371 --> 00:07:48,711\n﹚林楚茵﹚\n\n21\n00:08:09,051 --> 00:08:14,136\n所以也就是說剛剛提出來的這些疑問或疑惑其實都可以在立法院當中被監督但是如果說像現在有委員提出來說有國外的這些期刊都已經登出來了\n\n22\n00:08:35,535 --> 00:08:56,306\n那麼這個會不會變成是我們反過來去指揮人家那所以你們在訂定相關的這樣的一個監督的時候的跟對方是如何來達成一個共識因為畢竟當我們把錢捐到我們友邦的時候的過程當中那麼就是人家在內政當中做處理\n\n23\n00:08:57,367 --> 00:08:58,429\n那在內政當中做處理的時候我們怎麼樣訂定這個監督的議程又夠透明通開但是又夠能夠不影響干涉到他國內政\n\n24\n00:09:08,977 --> 00:09:33,311\n由今天跟委員說明就是有一些部分是必須要讓人民知道的比如說我們跟捷克之間簽訂了一個MOU那這個MOU簽訂好了之後那我們在去年的12月1號也告訴國人說有這個事情我們跟捷克一起去協助那個烏克蘭那這個是必須要去公開的那有關於內容的這個部分\n\n25\n00:09:34,171 --> 00:09:50,257\n就是捷克的這家期刊的部分其實他們對外透露的跟我們的那個新聞稿的那個性質是一樣的那但是至於這個約本本身如果他是列密的話那我們這邊不會對外來提供捷克方面也不會對外來提供\n\n26\n00:09:50,977 --> 00:10:17,547\n至於監督方面其實每一個MOU裡面都有一個成立一個共同監督委員會來監督這個執行那這個監督委員會裡面也會有我們的人參與這個是共同監督的事情所以對於監督立法院監督我們或者是說我們的政府在監督這一個事情的執行或者是說對方要跟我們報告那這個事情我們都必須要有百分之百的掌握\n\n27\n00:10:18,007 --> 00:10:46,425\n好我知道這個事情吼現在鬧的是連傑克我們的友邦都會認為說奇怪台灣好像先捐了一筆錢給我們之後換是他們的國會議員在質疑他們用錢用的不當這種感覺就很像是我們伸手去講人家家裡的事情但是因為錢來自於我們這裡所以我很明確的想問是那麼如果按照這個合約的話那麼最後他們還是會告訴我們怎麼樣使用這一筆善款\n\n28\n00:10:47,125 --> 00:10:52,447\n對,那這個報告大概是什麼時候會出來?每半年會有一個報告,這個叫做期中報告這樣子。好,每半年會有期中報告,那如果說是以今年1月你們送進來,2月送進來,那麼簽訂的期程的話,也就是其實6月、7月就有可能他們的第一批的使用的善款的狀況會有一個報告。對。好。\n\n29\n00:11:14,133 --> 00:11:17,055\n那我們其實還是期待這個報告因為有關於機密的部分我們還是要遵守外交部所核定的這個密的等級我們希望也不要成為未來我們在跟國際上面做一些MOU協定的時候變成是人家質疑我們的一個部分另外呢其實我在想\n\n30\n00:11:31,064 --> 00:11:33,287\n中美之間的貿易戰到底是不是會影響到台灣今天最新的訊息是說拜登宣布了中國產的這些產品要加徵關稅然後當然他也強調要維護台海和平的部分那麼其中\n\n31\n00:11:46,381 --> 00:12:01,435\n當然拜登宣布的180億的中國進口商品要開徵新關稅的部分外交部事前有掌握嗎那有了解嗎怎麼來評估現在其實全球在面對中國的時候尤其是以美國為首的這樣整體所形成的這個貿易戰對台灣的影響\n\n32\n00:12:04,532 --> 00:12:34,012\n非常謝謝委員的這個問題有關於美方要針對中國的這些產品加徵關稅的這個部分都一直有在做討論那也一直讓我們知道那個部分的這些狀況至於細節的部分比如說要加徵百分之百百分之二十五等等的那我們有事前有一些資訊但是沒有百分之百的掌握但是知道說這個方向是確定了那即使那個現在是川普政府的話而不是拜登政府的話\n\n33\n00:12:35,032 --> 00:12:58,241\n我相信他們的這個方向也差不多那最主要他們會做這個的事情的原因就是因為他們覺得中國方面有這種不當的這種國家補貼造成不公平的這個貿易所以要針對這種不公平的貿易他們就用關稅作為手段來處理這些問題那至於對台灣會不會有所影響有可能正面也有可能負面\n\n34\n00:12:58,681 --> 00:13:25,061\n那負面的部分就是說這個部分會不會造成那個國際經濟的一個動盪那當然我們是很重要的一個依賴國際貿易的國家這個也有可能會影響到我們台灣波及到我們台灣但是正面的這個部分就是說我們台灣類似的這些產品如果具有這種競爭力而且我們沒有做那種不公平的這個競爭的話相信我們台灣在國際社會上面的這個產品的流通還會更多\n\n35\n00:13:26,282 --> 00:13:42,016\n關心這個部分是因為接下來520之後新內閣也要上任那像這樣的問題可能不只是外交包括經濟包括我們整體的供應鏈跟台灣對外貿易相關的部分可能就要請這個我們未來的這個會長部長會長能夠多多的關注這個部分提供更多的資訊謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n563\t2523\t謝謝主席 主席有請吳部長請吳部長委員長部長好 這個有始有終我想對於這個艱難的外交工作其實也是這樣我相信是一棒接一棒那麼在您手上所打下的基礎下一棒會做得更好那麼今天既然流行所謂的這個open book隨堂考那麼\n27574\t54682\t面對您最後一次質詢我想說那我也來開個隨康考好了我等一下會秀幾張照片看看您認不認識照片上面的人首先從您鏡頭上所看到的最右邊開始這一位您認識嗎?實任國民黨總統候選人他在造勢場合上面講了四個字叫做林北丹利他現在是他現在您知道是誰吧?\n56086\t84794\t我們的院長我們立法院的院長對不對我應該澄清一下是你們的院長對對對是我們國家的立法院長好的那這個中間這一位呢算是過去我在跑新聞的時候也號稱立法院小辣椒啦那麼他好像在立法院也曾經說過了被認為是爆粗口叫做林周罵啦好那再來就是剛剛也有質詢您的他\n85574\t108986\t講的這位徐巧欣委員那麼我會秀這張照片是因為這些都是電視台上面的截圖有的是講閩南語但是也有就用發音像以老子來說如果以我這個年紀我是不知道現場的大家有沒有讀過那一篇叫做老子都不老子了竟然出現在課本裡面所以課本是公然叫我們講\n110486\t110606\t邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告\n132660\t158303\t跟那個林北是很接近的這種意思只是說在不同的這個背景之下的一種呈現那我剛剛講的這個臺灣話的這個字是因為我們鄉下人我是來自於鄉下那這個根本我是沒有辦法去忘記的因為我本身就是鄉下長大的那鄉下人在碰到見面的時候在講到自己的時候都是用這個字來形容所以沒有任何不敬的意思\n158703\t182148\t好其實本席會提問這個就是說我相信語言的使用不應該因為講台語或者是怎樣講的中文華語同樣的稱謂就會被認為好像有不禮貌但是真的確實是看個場合把話要講清楚今天本席也希望說在質詢的過程當中因為我們要做國際外交啊我們也得講\n182948\t210801\t對方聽得懂的話在國際外交國際組織當中我們要用他們的語言包括為什麼蕭美琴蕭大使我們未來的副總統在美國可以表現的這麼好那就是因為他所使用的語文語彙雖然同樣都是英文但是可以讓我們的美國友邦的友人覺得感受那種親切感所以本席希望的是來你也好好解釋一下因為剛剛前面幾位都沒有讓你解釋因為我是記者出身我非常了解\n211741\t233344\t最後的這個參會當中大家一定就是覺得欸接下來可能工作上面沒有機會見到但是呢私底下大家可能是好朋友請問這個彩帶是你自己做自己掛上去的嗎還是怎麼會有這樣的照片出來因為就是這個我們現在講的MOFA Taiwan的這個社群媒體當中出現了\n234525\t247917\t然後以至於呢好像變成是你在挑釁你在挑釁特定的委員嗎沒有你在挑釁特定的國家嗎沒有我今天已經說明過幾次我在這邊也說明一下就是上禮拜五\n249057\t274791\t我跟那個跑外交線的這個記者聯誼會跟他們做一個查序也跟他們做一個很深入的這個背景說明那大家都很高興那其中聯誼會的會長他就先做了這一個東西要呈送給我那這個本意就是一個幽默那對於這種幽默的話那大家的相處就會更好所以他幽默來啊我也幽默回去意思就是這樣子而已\n275242\t294021\t所以現在被吳釗燮剛說你好像是對著某個委員來沒有不是那個意思也不是不是那個意思好我希望這個話說清楚最重要訴會就是要解開嘛外交上不也是這樣嗎但是有些事情我覺得還是要講清楚前面我們就當作是一個open book你算過關好\n295222\t311632\t但是有關於我們簽訂的這些所謂的協定跟備忘錄其實確實是有機敏之分我大概整理了我們第10屆第8會期到現在第11屆第1會期當中外交部送到立法院的相關議約包括有現在最紅的烏克蘭重建\n315050\t340508\t現在被打上黃色的部分其實都是以備忘錄或密件的方式來處理那麼有些其實是可以公開請問這個為什麼是密件為什麼有些可以送來不是密件他所評定的過程是什麼因為我也曾經在這裡問過國安局的蔡局長他說這個是由主官來決定現在可不可以讓我們知道那為什麼\n342569\t362186\t難道說是因為這是有採購嗎還是說是因為採購的過程當中就有錢的問題但是我們來看一下比如說跟土瓦魯外交人員的訓練或者是外交度假打工這個沒有採購的合約但是為什麼有些是密件所以平等的等級到底是什麼難道說真的是外交部隨便開心嗎\n363147\t386732\t不是,那個要列什麼樣的這個密等都是我們的那個處理的同仁跟他們單位的這種長官必須要去仔細的去檢視和考慮說這個事情出去的話會不會影響到我們跟這一個友好國家的關係或者是說影響到那個我們在國際社會上面受到中國更多的這些打壓\n387532\t408884\t那在我們的同仁討論決定之後覺得說這個事情沒有問題了那我們就用一般件來處理那另外有一些就是說覺得這個公開來講可能會吸引到中國的這種打壓會影響到我們的雙邊關係等等的那就會用密件來處理那有些是這種NGO之間的這個簽訂那這個不是在那個締約\n413467\t419049\t所以言下之意就是我們在處理外交工作的時候因為台灣特殊的困境包括中國的因素在內就以像捷克又或者是其他我現在黃色所標註的都是因為一旦\n442515\t457785\t先公開了可能會有其他的狀況恆生之節或是造成我們的友邦在處理的程序上面備受壓力甚至於可能破局是不是但是密件就不能監督嗎我要來就是我們依法論法其實我們國際合作是依法有據包括我們國際合作發展法相關的規定都有特別提到就是會\n468371\t468711\t﹚林楚茵﹚\n489051\t494136\t所以也就是說剛剛提出來的這些疑問或疑惑其實都可以在立法院當中被監督但是如果說像現在有委員提出來說有國外的這些期刊都已經登出來了\n515535\t536306\t那麼這個會不會變成是我們反過來去指揮人家那所以你們在訂定相關的這樣的一個監督的時候的跟對方是如何來達成一個共識因為畢竟當我們把錢捐到我們友邦的時候的過程當中那麼就是人家在內政當中做處理\n537367\t538429\t那在內政當中做處理的時候我們怎麼樣訂定這個監督的議程又夠透明通開但是又夠能夠不影響干涉到他國內政\n548977\t573311\t由今天跟委員說明就是有一些部分是必須要讓人民知道的比如說我們跟捷克之間簽訂了一個MOU那這個MOU簽訂好了之後那我們在去年的12月1號也告訴國人說有這個事情我們跟捷克一起去協助那個烏克蘭那這個是必須要去公開的那有關於內容的這個部分\n574171\t590257\t就是捷克的這家期刊的部分其實他們對外透露的跟我們的那個新聞稿的那個性質是一樣的那但是至於這個約本本身如果他是列密的話那我們這邊不會對外來提供捷克方面也不會對外來提供\n590977\t617547\t至於監督方面其實每一個MOU裡面都有一個成立一個共同監督委員會來監督這個執行那這個監督委員會裡面也會有我們的人參與這個是共同監督的事情所以對於監督立法院監督我們或者是說我們的政府在監督這一個事情的執行或者是說對方要跟我們報告那這個事情我們都必須要有百分之百的掌握\n618007\t646425\t好我知道這個事情吼現在鬧的是連傑克我們的友邦都會認為說奇怪台灣好像先捐了一筆錢給我們之後換是他們的國會議員在質疑他們用錢用的不當這種感覺就很像是我們伸手去講人家家裡的事情但是因為錢來自於我們這裡所以我很明確的想問是那麼如果按照這個合約的話那麼最後他們還是會告訴我們怎麼樣使用這一筆善款\n647125\t652447\t對,那這個報告大概是什麼時候會出來?每半年會有一個報告,這個叫做期中報告這樣子。好,每半年會有期中報告,那如果說是以今年1月你們送進來,2月送進來,那麼簽訂的期程的話,也就是其實6月、7月就有可能他們的第一批的使用的善款的狀況會有一個報告。對。好。\n674133\t677055\t那我們其實還是期待這個報告因為有關於機密的部分我們還是要遵守外交部所核定的這個密的等級我們希望也不要成為未來我們在跟國際上面做一些MOU協定的時候變成是人家質疑我們的一個部分另外呢其實我在想\n691064\t693287\t中美之間的貿易戰到底是不是會影響到台灣今天最新的訊息是說拜登宣布了中國產的這些產品要加徵關稅然後當然他也強調要維護台海和平的部分那麼其中\n706381\t721435\t當然拜登宣布的180億的中國進口商品要開徵新關稅的部分外交部事前有掌握嗎那有了解嗎怎麼來評估現在其實全球在面對中國的時候尤其是以美國為首的這樣整體所形成的這個貿易戰對台灣的影響\n724532\t754012\t非常謝謝委員的這個問題有關於美方要針對中國的這些產品加徵關稅的這個部分都一直有在做討論那也一直讓我們知道那個部分的這些狀況至於細節的部分比如說要加徵百分之百百分之二十五等等的那我們有事前有一些資訊但是沒有百分之百的掌握但是知道說這個方向是確定了那即使那個現在是川普政府的話而不是拜登政府的話\n755032\t778241\t我相信他們的這個方向也差不多那最主要他們會做這個的事情的原因就是因為他們覺得中國方面有這種不當的這種國家補貼造成不公平的這個貿易所以要針對這種不公平的貿易他們就用關稅作為手段來處理這些問題那至於對台灣會不會有所影響有可能正面也有可能負面\n778681\t805061\t那負面的部分就是說這個部分會不會造成那個國際經濟的一個動盪那當然我們是很重要的一個依賴國際貿易的國家這個也有可能會影響到我們台灣波及到我們台灣但是正面的這個部分就是說我們台灣類似的這些產品如果具有這種競爭力而且我們沒有做那種不公平的這個競爭的話相信我們台灣在國際社會上面的這個產品的流通還會更多\n806282\t822016\t關心這個部分是因為接下來520之後新內閣也要上任那像這樣的問題可能不只是外交包括經濟包括我們整體的供應鏈跟台灣對外貿易相關的部分可能就要請這個我們未來的這個會長部長會長能夠多多的關注這個部分提供更多的資訊謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席有請吳部長請吳部長委員長部長好 這個有始有終我想對於這個艱難的外交工作其實也是這樣我相信是一棒接一棒那麼在您手上所打下的基礎下一棒會做得更好那麼今天既然流行所謂的這個open book隨堂考那麼\n面對您最後一次質詢我想說那我也來開個隨康考好了我等一下會秀幾張照片看看您認不認識照片上面的人首先從您鏡頭上所看到的最右邊開始這一位您認識嗎?實任國民黨總統候選人他在造勢場合上面講了四個字叫做林北丹利他現在是他現在您知道是誰吧?\n我們的院長我們立法院的院長對不對我應該澄清一下是你們的院長對對對是我們國家的立法院長好的那這個中間這一位呢算是過去我在跑新聞的時候也號稱立法院小辣椒啦那麼他好像在立法院也曾經說過了被認為是爆粗口叫做林周罵啦好那再來就是剛剛也有質詢您的他\n講的這位徐巧欣委員那麼我會秀這張照片是因為這些都是電視台上面的截圖有的是講閩南語但是也有就用發音像以老子來說如果以我這個年紀我是不知道現場的大家有沒有讀過那一篇叫做老子都不老子了竟然出現在課本裡面所以課本是公然叫我們講\n邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告\n跟那個林北是很接近的這種意思只是說在不同的這個背景之下的一種呈現那我剛剛講的這個臺灣話的這個字是因為我們鄉下人我是來自於鄉下那這個根本我是沒有辦法去忘記的因為我本身就是鄉下長大的那鄉下人在碰到見面的時候在講到自己的時候都是用這個字來形容所以沒有任何不敬的意思\n好其實本席會提問這個就是說我相信語言的使用不應該因為講台語或者是怎樣講的中文華語同樣的稱謂就會被認為好像有不禮貌但是真的確實是看個場合把話要講清楚今天本席也希望說在質詢的過程當中因為我們要做國際外交啊我們也得講\n對方聽得懂的話在國際外交國際組織當中我們要用他們的語言包括為什麼蕭美琴蕭大使我們未來的副總統在美國可以表現的這麼好那就是因為他所使用的語文語彙雖然同樣都是英文但是可以讓我們的美國友邦的友人覺得感受那種親切感所以本席希望的是來你也好好解釋一下因為剛剛前面幾位都沒有讓你解釋因為我是記者出身我非常了解\n最後的這個參會當中大家一定就是覺得欸接下來可能工作上面沒有機會見到但是呢私底下大家可能是好朋友請問這個彩帶是你自己做自己掛上去的嗎還是怎麼會有這樣的照片出來因為就是這個我們現在講的MOFA Taiwan的這個社群媒體當中出現了\n然後以至於呢好像變成是你在挑釁你在挑釁特定的委員嗎沒有你在挑釁特定的國家嗎沒有我今天已經說明過幾次我在這邊也說明一下就是上禮拜五\n我跟那個跑外交線的這個記者聯誼會跟他們做一個查序也跟他們做一個很深入的這個背景說明那大家都很高興那其中聯誼會的會長他就先做了這一個東西要呈送給我那這個本意就是一個幽默那對於這種幽默的話那大家的相處就會更好所以他幽默來啊我也幽默回去意思就是這樣子而已\n所以現在被吳釗燮剛說你好像是對著某個委員來沒有不是那個意思也不是不是那個意思好我希望這個話說清楚最重要訴會就是要解開嘛外交上不也是這樣嗎但是有些事情我覺得還是要講清楚前面我們就當作是一個open book你算過關好\n但是有關於我們簽訂的這些所謂的協定跟備忘錄其實確實是有機敏之分我大概整理了我們第10屆第8會期到現在第11屆第1會期當中外交部送到立法院的相關議約包括有現在最紅的烏克蘭重建\n現在被打上黃色的部分其實都是以備忘錄或密件的方式來處理那麼有些其實是可以公開請問這個為什麼是密件為什麼有些可以送來不是密件他所評定的過程是什麼因為我也曾經在這裡問過國安局的蔡局長他說這個是由主官來決定現在可不可以讓我們知道那為什麼\n難道說是因為這是有採購嗎還是說是因為採購的過程當中就有錢的問題但是我們來看一下比如說跟土瓦魯外交人員的訓練或者是外交度假打工這個沒有採購的合約但是為什麼有些是密件所以平等的等級到底是什麼難道說真的是外交部隨便開心嗎\n不是,那個要列什麼樣的這個密等都是我們的那個處理的同仁跟他們單位的這種長官必須要去仔細的去檢視和考慮說這個事情出去的話會不會影響到我們跟這一個友好國家的關係或者是說影響到那個我們在國際社會上面受到中國更多的這些打壓\n那在我們的同仁討論決定之後覺得說這個事情沒有問題了那我們就用一般件來處理那另外有一些就是說覺得這個公開來講可能會吸引到中國的這種打壓會影響到我們的雙邊關係等等的那就會用密件來處理那有些是這種NGO之間的這個簽訂那這個不是在那個締約\n所以言下之意就是我們在處理外交工作的時候因為台灣特殊的困境包括中國的因素在內就以像捷克又或者是其他我現在黃色所標註的都是因為一旦\n先公開了可能會有其他的狀況恆生之節或是造成我們的友邦在處理的程序上面備受壓力甚至於可能破局是不是但是密件就不能監督嗎我要來就是我們依法論法其實我們國際合作是依法有據包括我們國際合作發展法相關的規定都有特別提到就是會\n﹚林楚茵﹚\n所以也就是說剛剛提出來的這些疑問或疑惑其實都可以在立法院當中被監督但是如果說像現在有委員提出來說有國外的這些期刊都已經登出來了\n那麼這個會不會變成是我們反過來去指揮人家那所以你們在訂定相關的這樣的一個監督的時候的跟對方是如何來達成一個共識因為畢竟當我們把錢捐到我們友邦的時候的過程當中那麼就是人家在內政當中做處理\n那在內政當中做處理的時候我們怎麼樣訂定這個監督的議程又夠透明通開但是又夠能夠不影響干涉到他國內政\n由今天跟委員說明就是有一些部分是必須要讓人民知道的比如說我們跟捷克之間簽訂了一個MOU那這個MOU簽訂好了之後那我們在去年的12月1號也告訴國人說有這個事情我們跟捷克一起去協助那個烏克蘭那這個是必須要去公開的那有關於內容的這個部分\n就是捷克的這家期刊的部分其實他們對外透露的跟我們的那個新聞稿的那個性質是一樣的那但是至於這個約本本身如果他是列密的話那我們這邊不會對外來提供捷克方面也不會對外來提供\n至於監督方面其實每一個MOU裡面都有一個成立一個共同監督委員會來監督這個執行那這個監督委員會裡面也會有我們的人參與這個是共同監督的事情所以對於監督立法院監督我們或者是說我們的政府在監督這一個事情的執行或者是說對方要跟我們報告那這個事情我們都必須要有百分之百的掌握\n好我知道這個事情吼現在鬧的是連傑克我們的友邦都會認為說奇怪台灣好像先捐了一筆錢給我們之後換是他們的國會議員在質疑他們用錢用的不當這種感覺就很像是我們伸手去講人家家裡的事情但是因為錢來自於我們這裡所以我很明確的想問是那麼如果按照這個合約的話那麼最後他們還是會告訴我們怎麼樣使用這一筆善款\n對,那這個報告大概是什麼時候會出來?每半年會有一個報告,這個叫做期中報告這樣子。好,每半年會有期中報告,那如果說是以今年1月你們送進來,2月送進來,那麼簽訂的期程的話,也就是其實6月、7月就有可能他們的第一批的使用的善款的狀況會有一個報告。對。好。\n那我們其實還是期待這個報告因為有關於機密的部分我們還是要遵守外交部所核定的這個密的等級我們希望也不要成為未來我們在跟國際上面做一些MOU協定的時候變成是人家質疑我們的一個部分另外呢其實我在想\n中美之間的貿易戰到底是不是會影響到台灣今天最新的訊息是說拜登宣布了中國產的這些產品要加徵關稅然後當然他也強調要維護台海和平的部分那麼其中\n當然拜登宣布的180億的中國進口商品要開徵新關稅的部分外交部事前有掌握嗎那有了解嗎怎麼來評估現在其實全球在面對中國的時候尤其是以美國為首的這樣整體所形成的這個貿易戰對台灣的影響\n非常謝謝委員的這個問題有關於美方要針對中國的這些產品加徵關稅的這個部分都一直有在做討論那也一直讓我們知道那個部分的這些狀況至於細節的部分比如說要加徵百分之百百分之二十五等等的那我們有事前有一些資訊但是沒有百分之百的掌握但是知道說這個方向是確定了那即使那個現在是川普政府的話而不是拜登政府的話\n我相信他們的這個方向也差不多那最主要他們會做這個的事情的原因就是因為他們覺得中國方面有這種不當的這種國家補貼造成不公平的這個貿易所以要針對這種不公平的貿易他們就用關稅作為手段來處理這些問題那至於對台灣會不會有所影響有可能正面也有可能負面\n那負面的部分就是說這個部分會不會造成那個國際經濟的一個動盪那當然我們是很重要的一個依賴國際貿易的國家這個也有可能會影響到我們台灣波及到我們台灣但是正面的這個部分就是說我們台灣類似的這些產品如果具有這種競爭力而且我們沒有做那種不公平的這個競爭的話相信我們台灣在國際社會上面的這個產品的流通還會更多\n關心這個部分是因為接下來520之後新內閣也要上任那像這樣的問題可能不只是外交包括經濟包括我們整體的供應鏈跟台灣對外貿易相關的部分可能就要請這個我們未來的這個會長部長會長能夠多多的關注這個部分提供更多的資訊謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.563 --> 00:02.523\n謝謝主席主席有請吳部長請吳部長委員長部長好這個有始有終我想對於這個艱難的外交工作其實也是這樣我相信是一棒接一棒那麼在您手上所打下的基礎下一棒會做得更好那麼今天既然流行所謂的這個openbook隨堂考那麼\n\n00:27.574 --> 00:54.682\n面對您最後一次質詢我想說那我也來開個隨康考好了我等一下會秀幾張照片看看您認不認識照片上面的人首先從您鏡頭上所看到的最右邊開始這一位您認識嗎?實任國民黨總統候選人他在造勢場合上面講了四個字叫做林北丹利他現在是他現在您知道是誰吧?\n\n00:56.086 --> 01:24.794\n我們的院長我們立法院的院長對不對我應該澄清一下是你們的院長對對對是我們國家的立法院長好的那這個中間這一位呢算是過去我在跑新聞的時候也號稱立法院小辣椒啦那麼他好像在立法院也曾經說過了被認為是爆粗口叫做林周罵啦好那再來就是剛剛也有質詢您的他\n\n01:25.574 --> 01:48.986\n講的這位徐巧欣委員那麼我會秀這張照片是因為這些都是電視台上面的截圖有的是講閩南語但是也有就用發音像以老子來說如果以我這個年紀我是不知道現場的大家有沒有讀過那一篇叫做老子都不老子了竟然出現在課本裡面所以課本是公然叫我們講\n\n01:50.486 --> 01:50.606\n邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告\n\n02:12.660 --> 02:38.303\n跟那個林北是很接近的這種意思只是說在不同的這個背景之下的一種呈現那我剛剛講的這個臺灣話的這個字是因為我們鄉下人我是來自於鄉下那這個根本我是沒有辦法去忘記的因為我本身就是鄉下長大的那鄉下人在碰到見面的時候在講到自己的時候都是用這個字來形容所以沒有任何不敬的意思\n\n02:38.703 --> 03:02.148\n好其實本席會提問這個就是說我相信語言的使用不應該因為講台語或者是怎樣講的中文華語同樣的稱謂就會被認為好像有不禮貌但是真的確實是看個場合把話要講清楚今天本席也希望說在質詢的過程當中因為我們要做國際外交啊我們也得講\n\n03:02.948 --> 03:30.801\n對方聽得懂的話在國際外交國際組織當中我們要用他們的語言包括為什麼蕭美琴蕭大使我們未來的副總統在美國可以表現的這麼好那就是因為他所使用的語文語彙雖然同樣都是英文但是可以讓我們的美國友邦的友人覺得感受那種親切感所以本席希望的是來你也好好解釋一下因為剛剛前面幾位都沒有讓你解釋因為我是記者出身我非常了解\n\n03:31.741 --> 03:53.344\n最後的這個參會當中大家一定就是覺得欸接下來可能工作上面沒有機會見到但是呢私底下大家可能是好朋友請問這個彩帶是你自己做自己掛上去的嗎還是怎麼會有這樣的照片出來因為就是這個我們現在講的MOFATaiwan的這個社群媒體當中出現了\n\n03:54.525 --> 04:07.917\n然後以至於呢好像變成是你在挑釁你在挑釁特定的委員嗎沒有你在挑釁特定的國家嗎沒有我今天已經說明過幾次我在這邊也說明一下就是上禮拜五\n\n04:09.057 --> 04:34.791\n我跟那個跑外交線的這個記者聯誼會跟他們做一個查序也跟他們做一個很深入的這個背景說明那大家都很高興那其中聯誼會的會長他就先做了這一個東西要呈送給我那這個本意就是一個幽默那對於這種幽默的話那大家的相處就會更好所以他幽默來啊我也幽默回去意思就是這樣子而已\n\n04:35.242 --> 04:54.021\n所以現在被吳釗燮剛說你好像是對著某個委員來沒有不是那個意思也不是不是那個意思好我希望這個話說清楚最重要訴會就是要解開嘛外交上不也是這樣嗎但是有些事情我覺得還是要講清楚前面我們就當作是一個openbook你算過關好\n\n04:55.222 --> 05:11.632\n但是有關於我們簽訂的這些所謂的協定跟備忘錄其實確實是有機敏之分我大概整理了我們第10屆第8會期到現在第11屆第1會期當中外交部送到立法院的相關議約包括有現在最紅的烏克蘭重建\n\n05:15.050 --> 05:40.508\n現在被打上黃色的部分其實都是以備忘錄或密件的方式來處理那麼有些其實是可以公開請問這個為什麼是密件為什麼有些可以送來不是密件他所評定的過程是什麼因為我也曾經在這裡問過國安局的蔡局長他說這個是由主官來決定現在可不可以讓我們知道那為什麼\n\n05:42.569 --> 06:02.186\n難道說是因為這是有採購嗎還是說是因為採購的過程當中就有錢的問題但是我們來看一下比如說跟土瓦魯外交人員的訓練或者是外交度假打工這個沒有採購的合約但是為什麼有些是密件所以平等的等級到底是什麼難道說真的是外交部隨便開心嗎\n\n06:03.147 --> 06:26.732\n不是,那個要列什麼樣的這個密等都是我們的那個處理的同仁跟他們單位的這種長官必須要去仔細的去檢視和考慮說這個事情出去的話會不會影響到我們跟這一個友好國家的關係或者是說影響到那個我們在國際社會上面受到中國更多的這些打壓\n\n06:27.532 --> 06:48.884\n那在我們的同仁討論決定之後覺得說這個事情沒有問題了那我們就用一般件來處理那另外有一些就是說覺得這個公開來講可能會吸引到中國的這種打壓會影響到我們的雙邊關係等等的那就會用密件來處理那有些是這種NGO之間的這個簽訂那這個不是在那個締約\n\n06:53.467 --> 06:59.049\n所以言下之意就是我們在處理外交工作的時候因為台灣特殊的困境包括中國的因素在內就以像捷克又或者是其他我現在黃色所標註的都是因為一旦\n\n07:22.515 --> 07:37.785\n先公開了可能會有其他的狀況恆生之節或是造成我們的友邦在處理的程序上面備受壓力甚至於可能破局是不是但是密件就不能監督嗎我要來就是我們依法論法其實我們國際合作是依法有據包括我們國際合作發展法相關的規定都有特別提到就是會\n\n07:48.371 --> 07:48.711\n﹚林楚茵﹚\n\n08:09.051 --> 08:14.136\n所以也就是說剛剛提出來的這些疑問或疑惑其實都可以在立法院當中被監督但是如果說像現在有委員提出來說有國外的這些期刊都已經登出來了\n\n08:35.535 --> 08:56.306\n那麼這個會不會變成是我們反過來去指揮人家那所以你們在訂定相關的這樣的一個監督的時候的跟對方是如何來達成一個共識因為畢竟當我們把錢捐到我們友邦的時候的過程當中那麼就是人家在內政當中做處理\n\n08:57.367 --> 08:58.429\n那在內政當中做處理的時候我們怎麼樣訂定這個監督的議程又夠透明通開但是又夠能夠不影響干涉到他國內政\n\n09:08.977 --> 09:33.311\n由今天跟委員說明就是有一些部分是必須要讓人民知道的比如說我們跟捷克之間簽訂了一個MOU那這個MOU簽訂好了之後那我們在去年的12月1號也告訴國人說有這個事情我們跟捷克一起去協助那個烏克蘭那這個是必須要去公開的那有關於內容的這個部分\n\n09:34.171 --> 09:50.257\n就是捷克的這家期刊的部分其實他們對外透露的跟我們的那個新聞稿的那個性質是一樣的那但是至於這個約本本身如果他是列密的話那我們這邊不會對外來提供捷克方面也不會對外來提供\n\n09:50.977 --> 10:17.547\n至於監督方面其實每一個MOU裡面都有一個成立一個共同監督委員會來監督這個執行那這個監督委員會裡面也會有我們的人參與這個是共同監督的事情所以對於監督立法院監督我們或者是說我們的政府在監督這一個事情的執行或者是說對方要跟我們報告那這個事情我們都必須要有百分之百的掌握\n\n10:18.007 --> 10:46.425\n好我知道這個事情吼現在鬧的是連傑克我們的友邦都會認為說奇怪台灣好像先捐了一筆錢給我們之後換是他們的國會議員在質疑他們用錢用的不當這種感覺就很像是我們伸手去講人家家裡的事情但是因為錢來自於我們這裡所以我很明確的想問是那麼如果按照這個合約的話那麼最後他們還是會告訴我們怎麼樣使用這一筆善款\n\n10:47.125 --> 10:52.447\n對,那這個報告大概是什麼時候會出來?每半年會有一個報告,這個叫做期中報告這樣子。好,每半年會有期中報告,那如果說是以今年1月你們送進來,2月送進來,那麼簽訂的期程的話,也就是其實6月、7月就有可能他們的第一批的使用的善款的狀況會有一個報告。對。好。\n\n11:14.133 --> 11:17.055\n那我們其實還是期待這個報告因為有關於機密的部分我們還是要遵守外交部所核定的這個密的等級我們希望也不要成為未來我們在跟國際上面做一些MOU協定的時候變成是人家質疑我們的一個部分另外呢其實我在想\n\n11:31.064 --> 11:33.287\n中美之間的貿易戰到底是不是會影響到台灣今天最新的訊息是說拜登宣布了中國產的這些產品要加徵關稅然後當然他也強調要維護台海和平的部分那麼其中\n\n11:46.381 --> 12:01.435\n當然拜登宣布的180億的中國進口商品要開徵新關稅的部分外交部事前有掌握嗎那有了解嗎怎麼來評估現在其實全球在面對中國的時候尤其是以美國為首的這樣整體所形成的這個貿易戰對台灣的影響\n\n12:04.532 --> 12:34.012\n非常謝謝委員的這個問題有關於美方要針對中國的這些產品加徵關稅的這個部分都一直有在做討論那也一直讓我們知道那個部分的這些狀況至於細節的部分比如說要加徵百分之百百分之二十五等等的那我們有事前有一些資訊但是沒有百分之百的掌握但是知道說這個方向是確定了那即使那個現在是川普政府的話而不是拜登政府的話\n\n12:35.032 --> 12:58.241\n我相信他們的這個方向也差不多那最主要他們會做這個的事情的原因就是因為他們覺得中國方面有這種不當的這種國家補貼造成不公平的這個貿易所以要針對這種不公平的貿易他們就用關稅作為手段來處理這些問題那至於對台灣會不會有所影響有可能正面也有可能負面\n\n12:58.681 --> 13:25.061\n那負面的部分就是說這個部分會不會造成那個國際經濟的一個動盪那當然我們是很重要的一個依賴國際貿易的國家這個也有可能會影響到我們台灣波及到我們台灣但是正面的這個部分就是說我們台灣類似的這些產品如果具有這種競爭力而且我們沒有做那種不公平的這個競爭的話相信我們台灣在國際社會上面的這個產品的流通還會更多\n\n13:26.282 --> 13:42.016\n關心這個部分是因為接下來520之後新內閣也要上任那像這樣的問題可能不只是外交包括經濟包括我們整體的供應鏈跟台灣對外貿易相關的部分可能就要請這個我們未來的這個會長部長會長能夠多多的關注這個部分提供更多的資訊謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.563,"end":2.523,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請吳部長請吳部長委員長部長好 這個有始有終我想對於這個艱難的外交工作其實也是這樣我相信是一棒接一棒那麼在您手上所打下的基礎下一棒會做得更好那麼今天既然流行所謂的這個open book隨堂考那麼"},{"start":27.574,"end":54.682,"text":"面對您最後一次質詢我想說那我也來開個隨康考好了我等一下會秀幾張照片看看您認不認識照片上面的人首先從您鏡頭上所看到的最右邊開始這一位您認識嗎?實任國民黨總統候選人他在造勢場合上面講了四個字叫做林北丹利他現在是他現在您知道是誰吧?"},{"start":56.086,"end":84.794,"text":"我們的院長我們立法院的院長對不對我應該澄清一下是你們的院長對對對是我們國家的立法院長好的那這個中間這一位呢算是過去我在跑新聞的時候也號稱立法院小辣椒啦那麼他好像在立法院也曾經說過了被認為是爆粗口叫做林周罵啦好那再來就是剛剛也有質詢您的他"},{"start":85.574,"end":108.986,"text":"講的這位徐巧欣委員那麼我會秀這張照片是因為這些都是電視台上面的截圖有的是講閩南語但是也有就用發音像以老子來說如果以我這個年紀我是不知道現場的大家有沒有讀過那一篇叫做老子都不老子了竟然出現在課本裡面所以課本是公然叫我們講"},{"start":110.486,"end":110.606,"text":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告"},{"start":132.66,"end":158.303,"text":"跟那個林北是很接近的這種意思只是說在不同的這個背景之下的一種呈現那我剛剛講的這個臺灣話的這個字是因為我們鄉下人我是來自於鄉下那這個根本我是沒有辦法去忘記的因為我本身就是鄉下長大的那鄉下人在碰到見面的時候在講到自己的時候都是用這個字來形容所以沒有任何不敬的意思"},{"start":158.703,"end":182.148,"text":"好其實本席會提問這個就是說我相信語言的使用不應該因為講台語或者是怎樣講的中文華語同樣的稱謂就會被認為好像有不禮貌但是真的確實是看個場合把話要講清楚今天本席也希望說在質詢的過程當中因為我們要做國際外交啊我們也得講"},{"start":182.948,"end":210.801,"text":"對方聽得懂的話在國際外交國際組織當中我們要用他們的語言包括為什麼蕭美琴蕭大使我們未來的副總統在美國可以表現的這麼好那就是因為他所使用的語文語彙雖然同樣都是英文但是可以讓我們的美國友邦的友人覺得感受那種親切感所以本席希望的是來你也好好解釋一下因為剛剛前面幾位都沒有讓你解釋因為我是記者出身我非常了解"},{"start":211.741,"end":233.344,"text":"最後的這個參會當中大家一定就是覺得欸接下來可能工作上面沒有機會見到但是呢私底下大家可能是好朋友請問這個彩帶是你自己做自己掛上去的嗎還是怎麼會有這樣的照片出來因為就是這個我們現在講的MOFA Taiwan的這個社群媒體當中出現了"},{"start":234.525,"end":247.917,"text":"然後以至於呢好像變成是你在挑釁你在挑釁特定的委員嗎沒有你在挑釁特定的國家嗎沒有我今天已經說明過幾次我在這邊也說明一下就是上禮拜五"},{"start":249.057,"end":274.791,"text":"我跟那個跑外交線的這個記者聯誼會跟他們做一個查序也跟他們做一個很深入的這個背景說明那大家都很高興那其中聯誼會的會長他就先做了這一個東西要呈送給我那這個本意就是一個幽默那對於這種幽默的話那大家的相處就會更好所以他幽默來啊我也幽默回去意思就是這樣子而已"},{"start":275.242,"end":294.021,"text":"所以現在被吳釗燮剛說你好像是對著某個委員來沒有不是那個意思也不是不是那個意思好我希望這個話說清楚最重要訴會就是要解開嘛外交上不也是這樣嗎但是有些事情我覺得還是要講清楚前面我們就當作是一個open book你算過關好"},{"start":295.222,"end":311.632,"text":"但是有關於我們簽訂的這些所謂的協定跟備忘錄其實確實是有機敏之分我大概整理了我們第10屆第8會期到現在第11屆第1會期當中外交部送到立法院的相關議約包括有現在最紅的烏克蘭重建"},{"start":315.05,"end":340.508,"text":"現在被打上黃色的部分其實都是以備忘錄或密件的方式來處理那麼有些其實是可以公開請問這個為什麼是密件為什麼有些可以送來不是密件他所評定的過程是什麼因為我也曾經在這裡問過國安局的蔡局長他說這個是由主官來決定現在可不可以讓我們知道那為什麼"},{"start":342.569,"end":362.186,"text":"難道說是因為這是有採購嗎還是說是因為採購的過程當中就有錢的問題但是我們來看一下比如說跟土瓦魯外交人員的訓練或者是外交度假打工這個沒有採購的合約但是為什麼有些是密件所以平等的等級到底是什麼難道說真的是外交部隨便開心嗎"},{"start":363.147,"end":386.732,"text":"不是,那個要列什麼樣的這個密等都是我們的那個處理的同仁跟他們單位的這種長官必須要去仔細的去檢視和考慮說這個事情出去的話會不會影響到我們跟這一個友好國家的關係或者是說影響到那個我們在國際社會上面受到中國更多的這些打壓"},{"start":387.532,"end":408.884,"text":"那在我們的同仁討論決定之後覺得說這個事情沒有問題了那我們就用一般件來處理那另外有一些就是說覺得這個公開來講可能會吸引到中國的這種打壓會影響到我們的雙邊關係等等的那就會用密件來處理那有些是這種NGO之間的這個簽訂那這個不是在那個締約"},{"start":413.467,"end":419.049,"text":"所以言下之意就是我們在處理外交工作的時候因為台灣特殊的困境包括中國的因素在內就以像捷克又或者是其他我現在黃色所標註的都是因為一旦"},{"start":442.515,"end":457.785,"text":"先公開了可能會有其他的狀況恆生之節或是造成我們的友邦在處理的程序上面備受壓力甚至於可能破局是不是但是密件就不能監督嗎我要來就是我們依法論法其實我們國際合作是依法有據包括我們國際合作發展法相關的規定都有特別提到就是會"},{"start":468.371,"end":468.711,"text":"﹚林楚茵﹚"},{"start":489.051,"end":494.136,"text":"所以也就是說剛剛提出來的這些疑問或疑惑其實都可以在立法院當中被監督但是如果說像現在有委員提出來說有國外的這些期刊都已經登出來了"},{"start":515.535,"end":536.306,"text":"那麼這個會不會變成是我們反過來去指揮人家那所以你們在訂定相關的這樣的一個監督的時候的跟對方是如何來達成一個共識因為畢竟當我們把錢捐到我們友邦的時候的過程當中那麼就是人家在內政當中做處理"},{"start":537.367,"end":538.429,"text":"那在內政當中做處理的時候我們怎麼樣訂定這個監督的議程又夠透明通開但是又夠能夠不影響干涉到他國內政"},{"start":548.977,"end":573.311,"text":"由今天跟委員說明就是有一些部分是必須要讓人民知道的比如說我們跟捷克之間簽訂了一個MOU那這個MOU簽訂好了之後那我們在去年的12月1號也告訴國人說有這個事情我們跟捷克一起去協助那個烏克蘭那這個是必須要去公開的那有關於內容的這個部分"},{"start":574.171,"end":590.257,"text":"就是捷克的這家期刊的部分其實他們對外透露的跟我們的那個新聞稿的那個性質是一樣的那但是至於這個約本本身如果他是列密的話那我們這邊不會對外來提供捷克方面也不會對外來提供"},{"start":590.977,"end":617.547,"text":"至於監督方面其實每一個MOU裡面都有一個成立一個共同監督委員會來監督這個執行那這個監督委員會裡面也會有我們的人參與這個是共同監督的事情所以對於監督立法院監督我們或者是說我們的政府在監督這一個事情的執行或者是說對方要跟我們報告那這個事情我們都必須要有百分之百的掌握"},{"start":618.007,"end":646.425,"text":"好我知道這個事情吼現在鬧的是連傑克我們的友邦都會認為說奇怪台灣好像先捐了一筆錢給我們之後換是他們的國會議員在質疑他們用錢用的不當這種感覺就很像是我們伸手去講人家家裡的事情但是因為錢來自於我們這裡所以我很明確的想問是那麼如果按照這個合約的話那麼最後他們還是會告訴我們怎麼樣使用這一筆善款"},{"start":647.125,"end":652.447,"text":"對,那這個報告大概是什麼時候會出來?每半年會有一個報告,這個叫做期中報告這樣子。好,每半年會有期中報告,那如果說是以今年1月你們送進來,2月送進來,那麼簽訂的期程的話,也就是其實6月、7月就有可能他們的第一批的使用的善款的狀況會有一個報告。對。好。"},{"start":674.133,"end":677.055,"text":"那我們其實還是期待這個報告因為有關於機密的部分我們還是要遵守外交部所核定的這個密的等級我們希望也不要成為未來我們在跟國際上面做一些MOU協定的時候變成是人家質疑我們的一個部分另外呢其實我在想"},{"start":691.064,"end":693.287,"text":"中美之間的貿易戰到底是不是會影響到台灣今天最新的訊息是說拜登宣布了中國產的這些產品要加徵關稅然後當然他也強調要維護台海和平的部分那麼其中"},{"start":706.381,"end":721.435,"text":"當然拜登宣布的180億的中國進口商品要開徵新關稅的部分外交部事前有掌握嗎那有了解嗎怎麼來評估現在其實全球在面對中國的時候尤其是以美國為首的這樣整體所形成的這個貿易戰對台灣的影響"},{"start":724.532,"end":754.012,"text":"非常謝謝委員的這個問題有關於美方要針對中國的這些產品加徵關稅的這個部分都一直有在做討論那也一直讓我們知道那個部分的這些狀況至於細節的部分比如說要加徵百分之百百分之二十五等等的那我們有事前有一些資訊但是沒有百分之百的掌握但是知道說這個方向是確定了那即使那個現在是川普政府的話而不是拜登政府的話"},{"start":755.032,"end":778.241,"text":"我相信他們的這個方向也差不多那最主要他們會做這個的事情的原因就是因為他們覺得中國方面有這種不當的這種國家補貼造成不公平的這個貿易所以要針對這種不公平的貿易他們就用關稅作為手段來處理這些問題那至於對台灣會不會有所影響有可能正面也有可能負面"},{"start":778.681,"end":805.061,"text":"那負面的部分就是說這個部分會不會造成那個國際經濟的一個動盪那當然我們是很重要的一個依賴國際貿易的國家這個也有可能會影響到我們台灣波及到我們台灣但是正面的這個部分就是說我們台灣類似的這些產品如果具有這種競爭力而且我們沒有做那種不公平的這個競爭的話相信我們台灣在國際社會上面的這個產品的流通還會更多"},{"start":806.282,"end":822.016,"text":"關心這個部分是因為接下來520之後新內閣也要上任那像這樣的問題可能不只是外交包括經濟包括我們整體的供應鏈跟台灣對外貿易相關的部分可能就要請這個我們未來的這個會長部長會長能夠多多的關注這個部分提供更多的資訊謝謝"}]}}}}