{"id":152522,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152522","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7786a6f84a6532c0a42fe66039dc1248ad847f93a84224faabc25b9e10ac7e45627239ac86ab38cd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃仁","委員發言時間":"10:52:00 - 11:04:58","影片長度":"00:12:58","會議時間":"2024-05-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「推動國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會（WHA）執行現況」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-15","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-20"},"duration":778,"end_time":"2024-05-15T11:04:58+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-15T10:52:00+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":569,"blocks":[["黃委員仁：（10時52分）有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：黃委員好。"],["黃委員仁：部長好。關於參與WHA這個部分，今天已經是5月15號，基本上是不是已經確定今年無法出席WHA？2024年WHA舉辦的期間是5月27號到6月1號，根據過去的經驗，在這麼短的時間內，不可能再受邀了。當然，過去我們採取的補救方法是臺灣代表團在場外和其他的國家舉辦雙邊會談，例如2017年總共有59場，另外2018年有60場，2019年有71場，請問今年雙邊的會談有幾場？"],["吳部長釗燮：因為現在還在推動當中，所以會有幾場我現在沒有辦法跟大家說明。委員剛剛提的沒有錯，就是我們會利用其他國家的高階訪團都在日內瓦的機會與其他國家舉行雙邊會談；此外還有一種方式，就是也曾經進行多邊的workshop，這些對我們與其他國家的衛生合作關係非常有幫助，我們會持續的來推動。"],["黃委員仁：今天我為什麼要談到這個？第一個，我們在2017年之前，在馬英九總統的時代就曾經參加過WHA，也能夠以觀察員的身分進入到WHO，比如說像我們原住民、少數民族在聯合國裡面就有觀察員的身分。"],["吳部長釗燮：是。"],["黃委員仁：所以這樣一個這麼珍貴且能夠凸顯我們臺灣能夠在世界衛生組織裡面發光發熱，可是2017年之後至今就無法進入這樣一個大會，當然在裡面各國替我們講了很多話，對我們國內都是講一些宣導的立場，當然是好事，可是我們為什麼不借用美國，因為目前我們執政黨一直是親美的角度，是不是可以請教它，由大國跟我們中共來對談，你們認為是因為中共的阻撓，那是不是要借用美國這麼大的一個國家來跟中共對談，是不是讓我們有機會重新加入WHA這個組織，讓我們臺灣進入到世界衛生組織的立場，而不是一直採用雙邊的會談跟會議，你來回答。"],["吳部長釗燮：非常謝謝委員提出的問題，這個的確是非常的重要，美國在過去十多年來一直都有跟我們就國際組織參與的議題進行對話，在對話之後也具體的提出一些方式來協助我們，最近這一次就是針對2758號決議案有很重要的發言，但是將我們的國際參與交由其他的國家來幫我們協商的話，我想這個可能必須要去重新思考。參與國際組織是我們政府要代表我們臺灣人民的事情，我們的這個權益不應該交由其他的國家來替我們施行，我想我們的權益是掌握在我們的手中，我們臺灣……"],["黃委員仁：我們的權益……現在就是因為沒有辦法進入，所以我們也要借力使力啊！對不對？"],["吳部長釗燮：我們最主要的方向，在這邊也跟委員報告，就是我們希望能夠吸引更多的國家來支持我們參與世界衛生組織，我們吸引到的國家為我們去聯合進洽，或者是為我們發言，或者是為我們寫聯名信函交給世界衛生組織的秘書處，現在支持我們的人數不斷地增加，而且他的層級不斷地升高，這個就是我們努力的成果。"],["黃委員仁：這是國人關切而且非常重視看待的……"],["吳部長釗燮：我知道、我知道。"],["黃委員仁：那我希望下一個林佳龍部長能夠努力，好不好？"],["吳部長釗燮：是。謝謝委員。"],["黃委員仁：有關於外交部告我們立法委員徐巧芯委員一事，本席非常不解，部長，提告國會的立法委員是一個重大的事件，因為目前外交部控告徐巧芯是有關於我方與捷克簽訂的一千萬美金援助烏克蘭，其中指定30%到40%之間要採購臺灣的醫材，有圖利特定廠商的嫌疑。外交部在5月7號赴北檢提告徐巧芯委員洩密，北檢已列入他字案。剛剛徐巧芯送了蜜餞，我們外交部裡面的密件則有兩種，第一個是國家的密件，第二個是公務員重要的密件，但是它列入在什麼樣的密件我不曉得，你們的密件向來都是密件，這個是不解的地方。","另外一個我要特別講的就是，是不是這個是指示由法條司來提告徐巧芯？另外一個我特別要講的是，行政部門控告立法委員，這是行政權透過司法權企圖迫使立法委員限縮監督的權力，這可說是中華民國史上第一個、第一次在民主國家極為駭人聽聞的事件，請部長務必講清楚控告的完整決策過程，這樣未來若要追究責任或要論功行賞才知道要找誰。另外，我特別要講的是，行政部門控告立法委員是一個大事，無論結果如何，我這個地方特別要講的，未來產生重大的影響，已經告了，我們藉此機會來明確的歸屬是誰的責任。這件事未來可能有三種結果會發生，第一個，徐巧芯委員可能敗訴，第二個外交部可能敗訴，第三，外交部可能會撤告，但是請問一下部長，如果徐巧芯委員在過程中敗訴，他必須要負法律責任，對不對？"],["吳部長釗燮：是。"],["黃委員仁：好。"],["吳部長釗燮：因為違反相關刑法的規定。"],["黃委員仁：如果是外交部敗訴的話，誰要負政治責任？你來回答。"],["吳部長釗燮：這個是一個假設性的問題……"],["黃委員仁：不是假設性。"],["吳部長釗燮：不過要跟……"],["黃委員仁：剛剛我已經問你了，如果徐委員在被提告的過程裡面敗訴了，是由他負法律責任……"],["吳部長釗燮：跟委員報告一下……"],["黃委員仁：你剛剛說是……"],["吳部長釗燮：跟委員報告一下……"],["黃委員仁：外交部敗訴是假設性的，沒有錯，但是如果敗訴的話，你們要怎麼樣懲處？"],["吳部長釗燮：有關於未來的狀況，如果裁判的結果對告發的一方不利，我相信到時候……因為告發的是外交部，外交部應該會做這一些適當的討論。但是委員剛剛所說的事情我也必須澄清，我自己也是政治學者，我拿到政治學博士，知道行政機構跟立法機構之間的關係是checks and balances，是對立而相互制衡的關係，不是永遠由立法部門制衡行政部門。在這種關係之下，大家要彼此相互尊重。如果我們……"],["黃委員仁：今天你是在立法院備詢……"],["吳部長釗燮：對，這是一個相互制衡的過程。"],["黃委員仁：你到立法院備詢，但是你對國會的立法委員提告的立場……"],["吳部長釗燮：那是因……"],["黃委員仁：你創造了歷史上駭人聽聞的一個問題……"],["吳部長釗燮：如果違反刑法第一百三十二條的規定……"],["黃委員仁：剛剛我問……"],["吳部長釗燮：我們沒有處理的話，可能受到影響的是我們的國家利益。"],["黃委員仁：你不要把這個爛攤子交給未來的外交部長，讓林佳龍接這個爛攤子……"],["吳部長釗燮：這個不是爛攤子。"],["黃委員仁：因為這個事情明明期刊裡面都已經彰顯，說用1,000萬美金援助烏克蘭，這是事實。我們希望在國會良性表達人民的訴求……"],["吳部長釗燮：我們也很希望是良性的。"],["黃委員仁：而不是製造國會跟行政部門之間尷尬的場面……"],["吳部長釗燮：對，但是如果……"],["黃委員仁：把問題丟給下一個外交部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：如果一個文件是機密的，把這個文件秀出來的話，很明顯違反刑法第一百三十二條的規定。我們行政部門──外交部是受害者，可能我們的國家利益也會受到損害，對於這一件事情，外交部沒有不處理的空間。"],["黃委員仁：你們現在不要混淆國人的視聽。"],["吳部長釗燮：我沒有混淆視聽，把那些秀出來給記者看就涉及刑法第一百三十二條。"],["黃委員仁：我們國會的立法委員是由人民投票選出來，站在這個舞臺上質詢你們。有沒有公平、公正？這是國人看待的。你們是專業的行政部門，不要混淆視聽。"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有混淆視聽。"],["黃委員仁：你對立法委員提告，這是重大的一個政治事件，也是重大的事件。剛剛我才問你，我一再講，如果你們敗訴是誰要承擔？是你承擔，還是林佳龍承擔？你要回答這個議題。"],["吳部長釗燮：這個假設性的問題……"],["黃委員仁：不是假設性，剛剛我已經問你了，如果徐巧芯立法委員敗訴的時候，我問你，你說是，要負法律責任，這是一個答案。現在我反問你，外交部萬一敗訴的時候，是林佳龍負責，還是你負責？這個要跟國人交代嘛！"],["吳部長釗燮：也跟委員報告一下，外交部討論像這種把密件秀出來給記者看的做法，這個很明確是違反刑法第一百三十二條的規定。我們認為在這個事情上面，檢察官或者是法官應該會依照客觀的情形處理。有關於事情的內容，我們不適合在這裡發言。"],["黃委員仁：如果以密件來講，依什麼法條對徐巧芯委員提告？依什麼法條是一個疑問、問號。依什麼法條？從哪裡的法源？第二個，剛剛我一直問你，如果你們外交部敗訴是誰要承擔？是林佳龍承擔嗎？你來回答。"],["吳部長釗燮：這個是假設性的問題，外交部如果在這個議題上……"],["黃委員仁：你還在混淆國人的視聽……"],["吳部長釗燮：這個已經是公訴的狀況，地檢署已經take over。"],["黃委員仁：你在混淆視聽。"],["吳部長釗燮：我沒有混淆視聽。謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。接下來請洪委員申翰上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":146,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-20","speakers":["馬文君","邱志偉","徐巧芯","羅廷瑋","林楚茵","羅智強","羅美玲","王定宇","陳永康","蘇巧慧","陳冠廷","黃仁","洪申翰","林憶君","沈伯洋","黃秀芳","黃國昌","陳菁徽","王鴻薇","莊瑞雄","李坤城","吳思瑤","郭昱晴","楊瓊瓔","范雲","陳培瑜","王正旭","林月琴","牛煦庭","翁曉玲","葉元之","張雅琳","林思銘"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2024-05-15"],"gazette_id":"1134501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「推動國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會（ WHA）執行現況」，併\n請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134501_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152522","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152522","tool":"pyannote","id":"152522-pyannote"},"job_id":"3y5HRwqBlHXzY29E","queued_at":"2024-05-31 07:55:17","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-31 07:55:17","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152522"},{"time":"2024-05-31 07:55:18","msg":"downloading 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\"行政部門控告立法委員的是一個大事無論結果如何我這個地方特別要講的未來產生重大的影響已經夠了我們藉此機會來明確的來誰是歸屬責任這件事未來可能有三件事情會發生第一件習巧芹委員可能敗訴第二個外交部可能敗訴第三\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 426.599, \"end\": 426.819, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 426.819, \"end\": 426.999, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 426.999, \"end\": 427.34, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"門\"}, {\"word\": \"控\", \"start\": 427.34, \"end\": 427.52, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 427.52, \"end\": 427.68, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 427.68, \"end\": 427.8, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 427.8, \"end\": 427.96, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 427.96, \"end\": 428.22, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 428.22, \"end\": 428.52, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 428.52, \"end\": 428.62, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 428.62, \"end\": 428.78, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", 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\"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 451.353, \"end\": 451.494, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 451.494, \"end\": 452.154, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 452.154, \"end\": 452.554, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 452.554, \"end\": 452.874, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 452.874, \"end\": 453.775, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 453.775, \"end\": 453.915, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 453.915, \"end\": 455.136, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"敗\"}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 455.136, \"end\": 455.336, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 455.336, \"end\": 455.356, \"score\": 0.997}]}, {\"start\": 456.55, \"end\": 479.734, \"text\": \"外交部可能會撤告但是如果請問一下部長如果習巧芯委員在敗訴的過程他必須要負法律責任對不對是因為違反了相關的新法的規定那請問如果是外交部敗訴的話誰要負政治的責任你來回答\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 456.55, \"end\": 456.79, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 456.79, 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\"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 481.434, \"end\": 481.574, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 481.574, \"end\": 484.535, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 484.535, \"end\": 484.675, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 484.675, \"end\": 485.215, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 485.215, \"end\": 485.416, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 485.416, \"end\": 485.656, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 485.656, \"end\": 486.036, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 486.036, \"end\": 486.556, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"習\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 486.556, \"end\": 487.557, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 487.557, \"end\": 487.937, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 487.937, \"end\": 488.717, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 488.717, \"end\": 488.997, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 488.997, \"end\": 489.197, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 489.197, \"end\": 489.338, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 489.338, \"end\": 489.618, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 489.618, \"end\": 489.818, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 489.818, \"end\": 490.198, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 490.198, \"end\": 490.918, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"敗\"}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 490.918, \"end\": 492.939, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 492.939, \"end\": 493.199, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 493.199, \"end\": 493.52, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 493.52, \"end\": 493.76, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 493.76, \"end\": 494.1, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 494.1, \"end\": 494.24, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 494.24, \"end\": 494.68, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 494.68, \"end\": 495.341, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 495.341, \"end\": 495.841, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 495.841, \"end\": 495.981, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 495.981, \"end\": 496.361, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 496.361, \"end\": 496.741, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 496.741, \"end\": 497.161, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 497.161, \"end\": 497.502, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 497.502, \"end\": 497.522, \"score\": 0.995}]}, {\"start\": 498.422, \"end\": 502.844, \"text\": \"有關於未來的這個狀況如果說是告發的這一方如果說是裁判的這個結果對告發的一方不利的話\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 498.422, \"end\": 499.122, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 499.122, \"end\": 499.442, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 499.442, \"end\": 499.583, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 499.583, \"end\": 499.663, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 499.663, \"end\": 499.683, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 499.683, \"end\": 500.703, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 500.703, \"end\": 500.983, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 500.983, \"end\": 501.103, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 501.103, \"end\": 501.143, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 501.143, \"end\": 501.183, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"方\", 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{\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 649.596, \"end\": 649.776, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 649.776, \"end\": 649.936, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 649.936, \"end\": 650.457, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 650.457, \"end\": 653.7, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"授\", \"start\": 653.7, \"end\": 654.101, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 654.101, \"end\": 654.421, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 654.421, \"end\": 654.621, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 654.621, \"end\": 655.102, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 655.102, \"end\": 655.722, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 655.722, \"end\": 656.163, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 656.163, \"end\": 656.443, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 656.443, \"end\": 656.864, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"舞\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 756.801, \"end\": 756.841, \"score\": 0.26}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 756.841, \"end\": 756.861, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 756.861, \"end\": 756.881, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 758.547, \"end\": 758.707, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 758.707, \"end\": 758.747, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 758.747, \"end\": 758.787, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 758.787, \"end\": 758.887, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"毀\"}, {\"word\": \"謠\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 758.887, \"end\": 758.967, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 758.967, \"end\": 759.007, \"score\": 0.496}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 759.007, \"end\": 759.107, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 759.107, \"end\": 759.127, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 759.127, \"end\": 759.288, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 759.288, \"end\": 759.388, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"毀\"}, {\"word\": \"謠\"}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 759.388, \"end\": 759.408, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:04,111\n關於參與WHA這個部分今天已經是5月15號了那基本上是不是已經確定\n\n2\n00:00:22,406 --> 00:00:31,908\n今年無法出席這個WHA那根據這個2024年的WHA舉辦的期間是5月27到6月1號根據過去的經驗在這麼短的時間裡不可能再索要了\n\n3\n00:00:42,791 --> 00:00:55,718\n那當然過去我們採取的補救的方法是台灣代表團在場外和其他的國家裡面舉辦了雙邊的會談例如2017年有總共59場那另外2018年有60場2019年有71場那請問今年有幾場在雙邊的會談裡面有幾場\n\n4\n00:01:10,497 --> 00:01:35,849\n因為現在還在推動當中所以會有幾場我現在沒有辦法跟大家說明那委員剛剛提的沒有錯就是說我們會利用其他國家的這個高階訪團都在日內瓦的這個機會跟其他國家舉行這種雙邊的會談那其實還有一種方式就是多邊的這個workshop也曾經來進行那這些對我們跟其他國家的這種衛生合作的關係是非常有幫助的我們會持續的來推動\n\n5\n00:01:37,270 --> 00:01:57,458\n今天為什麼要談到這個第一個我們在2017年之前在馬英九總統的時代就曾經參加過我們WHA也進入到這個WHO能夠再進入到觀察員的一個身份\n\n6\n00:01:58,527 --> 00:02:25,460\n比如說像我們原住民少數民族在聯合國裡面就是有觀察員的身份所以這樣子一個這麼珍貴的能夠吐血我們在台灣能夠在世界衛生組織裡面能夠發光發熱可是2017年之後到至今就已經沒有這樣的一個進入到這樣的一個大會\n\n7\n00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:55,611\n那是不是在當然各國裡面替我們講了很多的話對我們國內都是講一些宣導的一個立場當然是好事可是我們為什麼不借用美國因為我們目前我們執政長一直對著美國親美的角度是不是可以請教他由大國跟我們中共\n\n8\n00:02:57,752 --> 00:03:23,408\n來對談你們認為是因為中共的阻擾那是不是要借用美國這麼大的一個國家來跟中共來對談是不是讓我們有機會重新的加入WHA這個組織讓我們台灣進入到世界衛生組織的一個立場而不是一直採用雙邊的會談跟會議你來回答\n\n9\n00:03:26,039 --> 00:03:36,971\n非常謝謝委員提出的這個問題這個的確是非常的重要那美國在過去這麼十多年來一直都有跟我們這種國組的這個對話國際組織參與的這個對話那在對話之後也具體的提出的一些方式來協助我們\n\n10\n00:03:44,019 --> 00:04:12,141\n那最近這一次就是針對2758號決議案有很重要的這種發言但是將我們的國際參與交由其他的國家來幫我們協商的話那我想這個可能必須要去重新思考參與國際組織是我們政府要代表我們台灣人民的這個事情我們的這個權益不應該交由其他的國家來替我們來施行那我想我們的權益是掌握在我們的手中\n\n11\n00:04:12,941 --> 00:04:34,815\n現在目前就是因為沒有辦法進入所以我們也要借力使力啊對我們最主要的這個方向在這邊也跟委員報告就是我們希望能夠吸引更多的這些國家來支持我們在參與世界衛生組織那我們吸引到的這個國家去為我們去聯合進洽\n\n12\n00:04:36,016 --> 00:04:37,237\n這是一個國人關切而且非常很重視的看待那我希望下一個林佳榮部長\n\n13\n00:04:58,075 --> 00:05:02,859\n徐巧欣委員．立法委員．本席非常不解的地方．也對我們部長．\n\n14\n00:05:17,509 --> 00:05:35,122\n對國會提告立法委員是一個重大的事件因為目前外交部控告習曉欣是有關於捷克簽訂的一千萬美金援助烏克蘭其中指定的百分之三十到四十之間的採購\n\n15\n00:05:36,783 --> 00:05:48,973\n臺灣的一彩．有圖利特定的廠商的嫌疑．外交部在5月7號．赴北檢提告習曉新委員泄密．北檢已列入他這案．\n\n16\n00:05:49,878 --> 00:06:14,401\n我們剛剛習曉欣送了密件我們密件我們外交部裡面的密件有兩種第一個是國家的密件第二個是公務員重要的密件但是它列入在什麼樣的密件我不曉得但是你們向來你們的密件都向來都是密件這個是不解的地方\n\n17\n00:06:15,422 --> 00:06:42,394\n那另外就是我要特別講的就是是不是這個只是由法條司來提供提告給徐喬欣另外就是我特別要講的是行政部門控告立法委員這是一個行政權透過司法權企圖迫使立法委員的權利限縮監督的權利那這可說是中華民國史上第一個\n\n18\n00:06:43,454 --> 00:07:04,171\n第一次在民主國家極為駭人聽聞的事件請部長務必講清楚公告的完整決策過程這樣未來若要追究責任或要論功行賞才知道要找誰另外我特別要講的是\n\n19\n00:07:06,599 --> 00:07:35,356\n行政部門控告立法委員的是一個大事無論結果如何我這個地方特別要講的未來產生重大的影響已經夠了我們藉此機會來明確的來誰是歸屬責任這件事未來可能有三件事情會發生第一件習巧芹委員可能敗訴第二個外交部可能敗訴第三\n\n20\n00:07:36,550 --> 00:07:59,734\n外交部可能會撤告但是如果請問一下部長如果習巧芯委員在敗訴的過程他必須要負法律責任對不對是因為違反了相關的新法的規定那請問如果是外交部敗訴的話誰要負政治的責任你來回答\n\n21\n00:08:00,793 --> 00:08:17,522\n這是一個假設性的問題。剛剛我已經問你了,如果習委員他在被提告的過程裡面,他敗訴了,他負法律責任,你剛剛說是,那如果外交部的\n\n22\n00:08:18,422 --> 00:08:22,844\n有關於未來的這個狀況如果說是告發的這一方如果說是裁判的這個結果對告發的一方不利的話\n\n23\n00:08:43,132 --> 00:08:58,801\n那我相信到時候那個因為告發的是我們外交部的那我們外交部應該是會去做這些適當的討論但是委員剛剛所說的這個事情我也必須要去做澄清我自己也是政治的學者我拿到政治學的這個博士\n\n24\n00:08:59,381 --> 00:09:28,071\n那就行政機構跟立法機構之間的關係是相互制衡是一個對立而相互制衡的關係而不是說永遠是由立法部門來制衡行政部門所以這種關係之下的話大家也要彼此相互的尊重今天你是在立法院背刑立法院背刑但是你提告我們國會的立法委員的立場\n\n25\n00:09:29,191 --> 00:09:39,417\n這是一個創造了歷史的一個害人害文的一個問題如果說是違反了刑法第132條的規定而我們沒有去處理的話可能受到影響是我們的國家利益\n\n26\n00:09:46,201 --> 00:10:04,173\n外交部長林佳龍來接這個爛攤子因為這個事情明明就是在期刊裡面都已經彰顯一千萬的美金來援助烏克蘭這是事實所以我們今天來講\n\n27\n00:10:06,718 --> 00:10:18,854\n我們國會希望是良性的一個表達安民的訴求而不是製造現在製造國會之間跟你們行政部門之間的尷尬的場面然後把問題丟給\n\n28\n00:10:23,519 --> 00:10:44,027\n如果說是一個文件這個是機密的然後把這個文件秀出來的話這個很明顯的就是違反了刑法第132條的這個規定那我們行政部門我們外交部這邊是受害者那可能我們的國家利益也會受到損害對於這件事情我們外交部沒有不處理的這個空間\n\n29\n00:10:46,192 --> 00:11:02,249\n你們現在不要混淆了國人的視聽今天我們不會立法委是授以人民國票出來站在這個舞台上來執行執行你們有沒有以公以平以公正\n\n30\n00:11:03,190 --> 00:11:28,882\n這是一個國人看待但是你們是專業行政部門不要去毀謠視聽因為你提告了立法委員這是一個重大的政治事件也是重大的事件那剛剛我才問你如果你們敗訴我一再一再講如果你們敗訴是誰要承擔是你來承擔還是林佳龍來承擔你來回答這個議題這個假設性的問題\n\n31\n00:11:31,323 --> 00:11:46,569\n不是假設性剛剛我已經問你了如果習曉新立法委員如果他是敗訴的時候我問你你說是負法律責任那請問這個是一個這是一個答案那現在我訪問你\n\n32\n00:11:47,529 --> 00:12:15,146\n外交部萬一敗訴的時候是林小龍負責呢還是你負責這個要跟國人交代嗎也跟委員報告一下就是說我們外交部去討論了有關於像這種把密件秀出來給記者的這個做法那這個很明確的違反了刑法第132條的這個規定我們認為說在這個事情上面我們的檢察官或者是我們的法官\n\n33\n00:12:16,467 --> 00:12:36,881\n如果意見來講徐小溪委員第一依什麼法條來提告他依什麼法條這個是一個疑問一個問號依什麼法條來問他從哪裡的法源那第二個剛剛委員正問你如果你們外交部倍數是誰要承擔是林佳龍承擔嗎你來回答\n\n34\n00:12:38,547 --> 00:12:39,408\n所以你還在毀謠國人的事情?你再毀謠視聽了\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t4111\t關於參與WHA這個部分今天已經是5月15號了那基本上是不是已經確定\n22406\t31908\t今年無法出席這個WHA那根據這個2024年的WHA舉辦的期間是5月27到6月1號根據過去的經驗在這麼短的時間裡不可能再索要了\n42791\t55718\t那當然過去我們採取的補救的方法是台灣代表團在場外和其他的國家裡面舉辦了雙邊的會談例如2017年有總共59場那另外2018年有60場2019年有71場那請問今年有幾場在雙邊的會談裡面有幾場\n70497\t95849\t因為現在還在推動當中所以會有幾場我現在沒有辦法跟大家說明那委員剛剛提的沒有錯就是說我們會利用其他國家的這個高階訪團都在日內瓦的這個機會跟其他國家舉行這種雙邊的會談那其實還有一種方式就是多邊的這個work shop也曾經來進行那這些對我們跟其他國家的這種衛生合作的關係是非常有幫助的我們會持續的來推動\n97270\t117458\t今天為什麼要談到這個第一個我們在2017年之前在馬英九總統的時代就曾經參加過我們WHA也進入到這個WHO能夠再進入到觀察員的一個身份\n118527\t145460\t比如說像我們原住民少數民族在聯合國裡面就是有觀察員的身份所以這樣子一個這麼珍貴的能夠吐血我們在台灣能夠在世界衛生組織裡面能夠發光發熱可是2017年之後到至今就已經沒有這樣的一個進入到這樣的一個大會\n146440\t175611\t那是不是在當然各國裡面替我們講了很多的話對我們國內都是講一些宣導的一個立場當然是好事可是我們為什麼不借用美國因為我們目前我們執政長一直對著美國親美的角度是不是可以請教他由大國跟我們中共\n177752\t203408\t來對談你們認為是因為中共的阻擾那是不是要借用美國這麼大的一個國家來跟中共來對談是不是讓我們有機會重新的加入WHA這個組織讓我們台灣進入到世界衛生組織的一個立場而不是一直採用雙邊的會談跟會議你來回答\n206039\t216971\t非常謝謝委員提出的這個問題這個的確是非常的重要那美國在過去這麼十多年來一直都有跟我們這種國組的這個對話國際組織參與的這個對話那在對話之後也具體的提出的一些方式來協助我們\n224019\t252141\t那最近這一次就是針對2758號決議案有很重要的這種發言但是將我們的國際參與交由其他的國家來幫我們協商的話那我想這個可能必須要去重新思考參與國際組織是我們政府要代表我們台灣人民的這個事情我們的這個權益不應該交由其他的國家來替我們來施行那我想我們的權益是掌握在我們的手中\n252941\t274815\t現在目前就是因為沒有辦法進入所以我們也要借力使力啊對我們最主要的這個方向在這邊也跟委員報告就是我們希望能夠吸引更多的這些國家來支持我們在參與世界衛生組織那我們吸引到的這個國家去為我們去聯合進洽\n276016\t277237\t這是一個國人關切而且非常很重視的看待那我希望下一個林佳榮部長\n298075\t302859\t徐巧欣委員．立法委員．本席非常不解的地方．也對我們部長．\n317509\t335122\t對國會提告立法委員是一個重大的事件因為目前外交部控告習曉欣是有關於捷克簽訂的一千萬美金援助烏克蘭其中指定的百分之三十到四十之間的採購\n336783\t348973\t臺灣的一彩．有圖利特定的廠商的嫌疑．外交部在5月7號．赴北檢提告習曉新委員泄密．北檢已列入他這案．\n349878\t374401\t我們剛剛習曉欣送了密件我們密件 我們外交部裡面的密件有兩種第一個是國家的密件第二個是公務員重要的密件但是它列入在什麼樣的密件 我不曉得但是你們向來 你們的密件都向來都是密件這個是不解的地方\n375422\t402394\t那另外就是我要特別講的就是是不是這個只是由法條司來提供提告給徐喬欣另外就是我特別要講的是行政部門控告立法委員這是一個行政權透過司法權企圖迫使立法委員的權利限縮監督的權利那這可說是中華民國史上第一個\n403454\t424171\t第一次在民主國家極為駭人聽聞的事件請部長務必講清楚公告的完整決策過程這樣未來若要追究責任或要論功行賞才知道要找誰另外我特別要講的是\n426599\t455356\t行政部門控告立法委員的是一個大事無論結果如何我這個地方特別要講的未來產生重大的影響已經夠了我們藉此機會來明確的來誰是歸屬責任這件事未來可能有三件事情會發生第一件習巧芹委員可能敗訴第二個外交部可能敗訴第三\n456550\t479734\t外交部可能會撤告但是如果請問一下部長如果習巧芯委員在敗訴的過程他必須要負法律責任對不對是因為違反了相關的新法的規定那請問如果是外交部敗訴的話誰要負政治的責任你來回答\n480793\t497522\t這是一個假設性的問題。剛剛我已經問你了,如果習委員他在被提告的過程裡面,他敗訴了,他負法律責任,你剛剛說是,那如果外交部的\n498422\t502844\t有關於未來的這個狀況如果說是告發的這一方如果說是裁判的這個結果對告發的一方不利的話\n523132\t538801\t那我相信到時候那個因為告發的是我們外交部的那我們外交部應該是會去做這些適當的討論但是委員剛剛所說的這個事情我也必須要去做澄清我自己也是政治的學者我拿到政治學的這個博士\n539381\t568071\t那就行政機構跟立法機構之間的關係是相互制衡是一個對立而相互制衡的關係而不是說永遠是由立法部門來制衡行政部門所以這種關係之下的話大家也要彼此相互的尊重今天你是在立法院背刑立法院背刑但是你提告我們國會的立法委員的立場\n569191\t579417\t這是一個創造了歷史的一個害人害文的一個問題如果說是違反了刑法第132條的規定而我們沒有去處理的話可能受到影響是我們的國家利益\n586201\t604173\t外交部長林佳龍來接這個爛攤子因為這個事情明明就是在期刊裡面都已經彰顯一千萬的美金來援助烏克蘭這是事實所以我們今天來講\n606718\t618854\t我們國會希望是良性的一個表達安民的訴求而不是製造現在製造國會之間跟你們行政部門之間的尷尬的場面然後把問題丟給\n623519\t644027\t如果說是一個文件這個是機密的然後把這個文件秀出來的話這個很明顯的就是違反了刑法第132條的這個規定那我們行政部門我們外交部這邊是受害者那可能我們的國家利益也會受到損害對於這件事情我們外交部沒有不處理的這個空間\n646192\t662249\t你們現在不要混淆了國人的視聽今天我們不會立法委是授以人民國票出來站在這個舞台上來執行執行你們有沒有以公以平以公正\n663190\t688882\t這是一個國人看待但是你們是專業行政部門不要去毀謠視聽因為你提告了立法委員這是一個重大的政治事件也是重大的事件那剛剛我才問你如果你們敗訴我一再一再講如果你們敗訴是誰要承擔是你來承擔還是林佳龍來承擔你來回答這個議題這個假設性的問題\n691323\t706569\t不是假設性剛剛我已經問你了如果習曉新立法委員如果他是敗訴的時候我問你你說是負法律責任那請問這個是一個這是一個答案那現在我訪問你\n707529\t735146\t外交部萬一敗訴的時候是林小龍負責呢還是你負責這個要跟國人交代嗎也跟委員報告一下就是說我們外交部去討論了有關於像這種把密件秀出來給記者的這個做法那這個很明確的違反了刑法第132條的這個規定我們認為說在這個事情上面我們的檢察官或者是我們的法官\n736467\t756881\t如果意見來講徐小溪委員第一依什麼法條來提告他依什麼法條這個是一個疑問一個問號依什麼法條來問他從哪裡的法源那第二個剛剛委員正問你如果你們外交部倍數是誰要承擔是林佳龍承擔嗎你來回答\n758547\t759408\t所以你還在毀謠國人的事情?你再毀謠視聽了\n","txt":"關於參與WHA這個部分今天已經是5月15號了那基本上是不是已經確定\n今年無法出席這個WHA那根據這個2024年的WHA舉辦的期間是5月27到6月1號根據過去的經驗在這麼短的時間裡不可能再索要了\n那當然過去我們採取的補救的方法是台灣代表團在場外和其他的國家裡面舉辦了雙邊的會談例如2017年有總共59場那另外2018年有60場2019年有71場那請問今年有幾場在雙邊的會談裡面有幾場\n因為現在還在推動當中所以會有幾場我現在沒有辦法跟大家說明那委員剛剛提的沒有錯就是說我們會利用其他國家的這個高階訪團都在日內瓦的這個機會跟其他國家舉行這種雙邊的會談那其實還有一種方式就是多邊的這個work shop也曾經來進行那這些對我們跟其他國家的這種衛生合作的關係是非常有幫助的我們會持續的來推動\n今天為什麼要談到這個第一個我們在2017年之前在馬英九總統的時代就曾經參加過我們WHA也進入到這個WHO能夠再進入到觀察員的一個身份\n比如說像我們原住民少數民族在聯合國裡面就是有觀察員的身份所以這樣子一個這麼珍貴的能夠吐血我們在台灣能夠在世界衛生組織裡面能夠發光發熱可是2017年之後到至今就已經沒有這樣的一個進入到這樣的一個大會\n那是不是在當然各國裡面替我們講了很多的話對我們國內都是講一些宣導的一個立場當然是好事可是我們為什麼不借用美國因為我們目前我們執政長一直對著美國親美的角度是不是可以請教他由大國跟我們中共\n來對談你們認為是因為中共的阻擾那是不是要借用美國這麼大的一個國家來跟中共來對談是不是讓我們有機會重新的加入WHA這個組織讓我們台灣進入到世界衛生組織的一個立場而不是一直採用雙邊的會談跟會議你來回答\n非常謝謝委員提出的這個問題這個的確是非常的重要那美國在過去這麼十多年來一直都有跟我們這種國組的這個對話國際組織參與的這個對話那在對話之後也具體的提出的一些方式來協助我們\n那最近這一次就是針對2758號決議案有很重要的這種發言但是將我們的國際參與交由其他的國家來幫我們協商的話那我想這個可能必須要去重新思考參與國際組織是我們政府要代表我們台灣人民的這個事情我們的這個權益不應該交由其他的國家來替我們來施行那我想我們的權益是掌握在我們的手中\n現在目前就是因為沒有辦法進入所以我們也要借力使力啊對我們最主要的這個方向在這邊也跟委員報告就是我們希望能夠吸引更多的這些國家來支持我們在參與世界衛生組織那我們吸引到的這個國家去為我們去聯合進洽\n這是一個國人關切而且非常很重視的看待那我希望下一個林佳榮部長\n徐巧欣委員．立法委員．本席非常不解的地方．也對我們部長．\n對國會提告立法委員是一個重大的事件因為目前外交部控告習曉欣是有關於捷克簽訂的一千萬美金援助烏克蘭其中指定的百分之三十到四十之間的採購\n臺灣的一彩．有圖利特定的廠商的嫌疑．外交部在5月7號．赴北檢提告習曉新委員泄密．北檢已列入他這案．\n我們剛剛習曉欣送了密件我們密件 我們外交部裡面的密件有兩種第一個是國家的密件第二個是公務員重要的密件但是它列入在什麼樣的密件 我不曉得但是你們向來 你們的密件都向來都是密件這個是不解的地方\n那另外就是我要特別講的就是是不是這個只是由法條司來提供提告給徐喬欣另外就是我特別要講的是行政部門控告立法委員這是一個行政權透過司法權企圖迫使立法委員的權利限縮監督的權利那這可說是中華民國史上第一個\n第一次在民主國家極為駭人聽聞的事件請部長務必講清楚公告的完整決策過程這樣未來若要追究責任或要論功行賞才知道要找誰另外我特別要講的是\n行政部門控告立法委員的是一個大事無論結果如何我這個地方特別要講的未來產生重大的影響已經夠了我們藉此機會來明確的來誰是歸屬責任這件事未來可能有三件事情會發生第一件習巧芹委員可能敗訴第二個外交部可能敗訴第三\n外交部可能會撤告但是如果請問一下部長如果習巧芯委員在敗訴的過程他必須要負法律責任對不對是因為違反了相關的新法的規定那請問如果是外交部敗訴的話誰要負政治的責任你來回答\n這是一個假設性的問題。剛剛我已經問你了,如果習委員他在被提告的過程裡面,他敗訴了,他負法律責任,你剛剛說是,那如果外交部的\n有關於未來的這個狀況如果說是告發的這一方如果說是裁判的這個結果對告發的一方不利的話\n那我相信到時候那個因為告發的是我們外交部的那我們外交部應該是會去做這些適當的討論但是委員剛剛所說的這個事情我也必須要去做澄清我自己也是政治的學者我拿到政治學的這個博士\n那就行政機構跟立法機構之間的關係是相互制衡是一個對立而相互制衡的關係而不是說永遠是由立法部門來制衡行政部門所以這種關係之下的話大家也要彼此相互的尊重今天你是在立法院背刑立法院背刑但是你提告我們國會的立法委員的立場\n這是一個創造了歷史的一個害人害文的一個問題如果說是違反了刑法第132條的規定而我們沒有去處理的話可能受到影響是我們的國家利益\n外交部長林佳龍來接這個爛攤子因為這個事情明明就是在期刊裡面都已經彰顯一千萬的美金來援助烏克蘭這是事實所以我們今天來講\n我們國會希望是良性的一個表達安民的訴求而不是製造現在製造國會之間跟你們行政部門之間的尷尬的場面然後把問題丟給\n如果說是一個文件這個是機密的然後把這個文件秀出來的話這個很明顯的就是違反了刑法第132條的這個規定那我們行政部門我們外交部這邊是受害者那可能我們的國家利益也會受到損害對於這件事情我們外交部沒有不處理的這個空間\n你們現在不要混淆了國人的視聽今天我們不會立法委是授以人民國票出來站在這個舞台上來執行執行你們有沒有以公以平以公正\n這是一個國人看待但是你們是專業行政部門不要去毀謠視聽因為你提告了立法委員這是一個重大的政治事件也是重大的事件那剛剛我才問你如果你們敗訴我一再一再講如果你們敗訴是誰要承擔是你來承擔還是林佳龍來承擔你來回答這個議題這個假設性的問題\n不是假設性剛剛我已經問你了如果習曉新立法委員如果他是敗訴的時候我問你你說是負法律責任那請問這個是一個這是一個答案那現在我訪問你\n外交部萬一敗訴的時候是林小龍負責呢還是你負責這個要跟國人交代嗎也跟委員報告一下就是說我們外交部去討論了有關於像這種把密件秀出來給記者的這個做法那這個很明確的違反了刑法第132條的這個規定我們認為說在這個事情上面我們的檢察官或者是我們的法官\n如果意見來講徐小溪委員第一依什麼法條來提告他依什麼法條這個是一個疑問一個問號依什麼法條來問他從哪裡的法源那第二個剛剛委員正問你如果你們外交部倍數是誰要承擔是林佳龍承擔嗎你來回答\n所以你還在毀謠國人的事情?你再毀謠視聽了\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:04.111\n關於參與WHA這個部分今天已經是5月15號了那基本上是不是已經確定\n\n00:22.406 --> 00:31.908\n今年無法出席這個WHA那根據這個2024年的WHA舉辦的期間是5月27到6月1號根據過去的經驗在這麼短的時間裡不可能再索要了\n\n00:42.791 --> 00:55.718\n那當然過去我們採取的補救的方法是台灣代表團在場外和其他的國家裡面舉辦了雙邊的會談例如2017年有總共59場那另外2018年有60場2019年有71場那請問今年有幾場在雙邊的會談裡面有幾場\n\n01:10.497 --> 01:35.849\n因為現在還在推動當中所以會有幾場我現在沒有辦法跟大家說明那委員剛剛提的沒有錯就是說我們會利用其他國家的這個高階訪團都在日內瓦的這個機會跟其他國家舉行這種雙邊的會談那其實還有一種方式就是多邊的這個workshop也曾經來進行那這些對我們跟其他國家的這種衛生合作的關係是非常有幫助的我們會持續的來推動\n\n01:37.270 --> 01:57.458\n今天為什麼要談到這個第一個我們在2017年之前在馬英九總統的時代就曾經參加過我們WHA也進入到這個WHO能夠再進入到觀察員的一個身份\n\n01:58.527 --> 02:25.460\n比如說像我們原住民少數民族在聯合國裡面就是有觀察員的身份所以這樣子一個這麼珍貴的能夠吐血我們在台灣能夠在世界衛生組織裡面能夠發光發熱可是2017年之後到至今就已經沒有這樣的一個進入到這樣的一個大會\n\n02:26.440 --> 02:55.611\n那是不是在當然各國裡面替我們講了很多的話對我們國內都是講一些宣導的一個立場當然是好事可是我們為什麼不借用美國因為我們目前我們執政長一直對著美國親美的角度是不是可以請教他由大國跟我們中共\n\n02:57.752 --> 03:23.408\n來對談你們認為是因為中共的阻擾那是不是要借用美國這麼大的一個國家來跟中共來對談是不是讓我們有機會重新的加入WHA這個組織讓我們台灣進入到世界衛生組織的一個立場而不是一直採用雙邊的會談跟會議你來回答\n\n03:26.039 --> 03:36.971\n非常謝謝委員提出的這個問題這個的確是非常的重要那美國在過去這麼十多年來一直都有跟我們這種國組的這個對話國際組織參與的這個對話那在對話之後也具體的提出的一些方式來協助我們\n\n03:44.019 --> 04:12.141\n那最近這一次就是針對2758號決議案有很重要的這種發言但是將我們的國際參與交由其他的國家來幫我們協商的話那我想這個可能必須要去重新思考參與國際組織是我們政府要代表我們台灣人民的這個事情我們的這個權益不應該交由其他的國家來替我們來施行那我想我們的權益是掌握在我們的手中\n\n04:12.941 --> 04:34.815\n現在目前就是因為沒有辦法進入所以我們也要借力使力啊對我們最主要的這個方向在這邊也跟委員報告就是我們希望能夠吸引更多的這些國家來支持我們在參與世界衛生組織那我們吸引到的這個國家去為我們去聯合進洽\n\n04:36.016 --> 04:37.237\n這是一個國人關切而且非常很重視的看待那我希望下一個林佳榮部長\n\n04:58.075 --> 05:02.859\n徐巧欣委員．立法委員．本席非常不解的地方．也對我們部長．\n\n05:17.509 --> 05:35.122\n對國會提告立法委員是一個重大的事件因為目前外交部控告習曉欣是有關於捷克簽訂的一千萬美金援助烏克蘭其中指定的百分之三十到四十之間的採購\n\n05:36.783 --> 05:48.973\n臺灣的一彩．有圖利特定的廠商的嫌疑．外交部在5月7號．赴北檢提告習曉新委員泄密．北檢已列入他這案．\n\n05:49.878 --> 06:14.401\n我們剛剛習曉欣送了密件我們密件我們外交部裡面的密件有兩種第一個是國家的密件第二個是公務員重要的密件但是它列入在什麼樣的密件我不曉得但是你們向來你們的密件都向來都是密件這個是不解的地方\n\n06:15.422 --> 06:42.394\n那另外就是我要特別講的就是是不是這個只是由法條司來提供提告給徐喬欣另外就是我特別要講的是行政部門控告立法委員這是一個行政權透過司法權企圖迫使立法委員的權利限縮監督的權利那這可說是中華民國史上第一個\n\n06:43.454 --> 07:04.171\n第一次在民主國家極為駭人聽聞的事件請部長務必講清楚公告的完整決策過程這樣未來若要追究責任或要論功行賞才知道要找誰另外我特別要講的是\n\n07:06.599 --> 07:35.356\n行政部門控告立法委員的是一個大事無論結果如何我這個地方特別要講的未來產生重大的影響已經夠了我們藉此機會來明確的來誰是歸屬責任這件事未來可能有三件事情會發生第一件習巧芹委員可能敗訴第二個外交部可能敗訴第三\n\n07:36.550 --> 07:59.734\n外交部可能會撤告但是如果請問一下部長如果習巧芯委員在敗訴的過程他必須要負法律責任對不對是因為違反了相關的新法的規定那請問如果是外交部敗訴的話誰要負政治的責任你來回答\n\n08:00.793 --> 08:17.522\n這是一個假設性的問題。剛剛我已經問你了,如果習委員他在被提告的過程裡面,他敗訴了,他負法律責任,你剛剛說是,那如果外交部的\n\n08:18.422 --> 08:22.844\n有關於未來的這個狀況如果說是告發的這一方如果說是裁判的這個結果對告發的一方不利的話\n\n08:43.132 --> 08:58.801\n那我相信到時候那個因為告發的是我們外交部的那我們外交部應該是會去做這些適當的討論但是委員剛剛所說的這個事情我也必須要去做澄清我自己也是政治的學者我拿到政治學的這個博士\n\n08:59.381 --> 09:28.071\n那就行政機構跟立法機構之間的關係是相互制衡是一個對立而相互制衡的關係而不是說永遠是由立法部門來制衡行政部門所以這種關係之下的話大家也要彼此相互的尊重今天你是在立法院背刑立法院背刑但是你提告我們國會的立法委員的立場\n\n09:29.191 --> 09:39.417\n這是一個創造了歷史的一個害人害文的一個問題如果說是違反了刑法第132條的規定而我們沒有去處理的話可能受到影響是我們的國家利益\n\n09:46.201 --> 10:04.173\n外交部長林佳龍來接這個爛攤子因為這個事情明明就是在期刊裡面都已經彰顯一千萬的美金來援助烏克蘭這是事實所以我們今天來講\n\n10:06.718 --> 10:18.854\n我們國會希望是良性的一個表達安民的訴求而不是製造現在製造國會之間跟你們行政部門之間的尷尬的場面然後把問題丟給\n\n10:23.519 --> 10:44.027\n如果說是一個文件這個是機密的然後把這個文件秀出來的話這個很明顯的就是違反了刑法第132條的這個規定那我們行政部門我們外交部這邊是受害者那可能我們的國家利益也會受到損害對於這件事情我們外交部沒有不處理的這個空間\n\n10:46.192 --> 11:02.249\n你們現在不要混淆了國人的視聽今天我們不會立法委是授以人民國票出來站在這個舞台上來執行執行你們有沒有以公以平以公正\n\n11:03.190 --> 11:28.882\n這是一個國人看待但是你們是專業行政部門不要去毀謠視聽因為你提告了立法委員這是一個重大的政治事件也是重大的事件那剛剛我才問你如果你們敗訴我一再一再講如果你們敗訴是誰要承擔是你來承擔還是林佳龍來承擔你來回答這個議題這個假設性的問題\n\n11:31.323 --> 11:46.569\n不是假設性剛剛我已經問你了如果習曉新立法委員如果他是敗訴的時候我問你你說是負法律責任那請問這個是一個這是一個答案那現在我訪問你\n\n11:47.529 --> 12:15.146\n外交部萬一敗訴的時候是林小龍負責呢還是你負責這個要跟國人交代嗎也跟委員報告一下就是說我們外交部去討論了有關於像這種把密件秀出來給記者的這個做法那這個很明確的違反了刑法第132條的這個規定我們認為說在這個事情上面我們的檢察官或者是我們的法官\n\n12:16.467 --> 12:36.881\n如果意見來講徐小溪委員第一依什麼法條來提告他依什麼法條這個是一個疑問一個問號依什麼法條來問他從哪裡的法源那第二個剛剛委員正問你如果你們外交部倍數是誰要承擔是林佳龍承擔嗎你來回答\n\n12:38.547 --> 12:39.408\n所以你還在毀謠國人的事情?你再毀謠視聽了\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":4.111,"text":"關於參與WHA這個部分今天已經是5月15號了那基本上是不是已經確定"},{"start":22.406,"end":31.908,"text":"今年無法出席這個WHA那根據這個2024年的WHA舉辦的期間是5月27到6月1號根據過去的經驗在這麼短的時間裡不可能再索要了"},{"start":42.791,"end":55.718,"text":"那當然過去我們採取的補救的方法是台灣代表團在場外和其他的國家裡面舉辦了雙邊的會談例如2017年有總共59場那另外2018年有60場2019年有71場那請問今年有幾場在雙邊的會談裡面有幾場"},{"start":70.497,"end":95.849,"text":"因為現在還在推動當中所以會有幾場我現在沒有辦法跟大家說明那委員剛剛提的沒有錯就是說我們會利用其他國家的這個高階訪團都在日內瓦的這個機會跟其他國家舉行這種雙邊的會談那其實還有一種方式就是多邊的這個work shop也曾經來進行那這些對我們跟其他國家的這種衛生合作的關係是非常有幫助的我們會持續的來推動"},{"start":97.27,"end":117.458,"text":"今天為什麼要談到這個第一個我們在2017年之前在馬英九總統的時代就曾經參加過我們WHA也進入到這個WHO能夠再進入到觀察員的一個身份"},{"start":118.527,"end":145.46,"text":"比如說像我們原住民少數民族在聯合國裡面就是有觀察員的身份所以這樣子一個這麼珍貴的能夠吐血我們在台灣能夠在世界衛生組織裡面能夠發光發熱可是2017年之後到至今就已經沒有這樣的一個進入到這樣的一個大會"},{"start":146.44,"end":175.611,"text":"那是不是在當然各國裡面替我們講了很多的話對我們國內都是講一些宣導的一個立場當然是好事可是我們為什麼不借用美國因為我們目前我們執政長一直對著美國親美的角度是不是可以請教他由大國跟我們中共"},{"start":177.752,"end":203.408,"text":"來對談你們認為是因為中共的阻擾那是不是要借用美國這麼大的一個國家來跟中共來對談是不是讓我們有機會重新的加入WHA這個組織讓我們台灣進入到世界衛生組織的一個立場而不是一直採用雙邊的會談跟會議你來回答"},{"start":206.039,"end":216.971,"text":"非常謝謝委員提出的這個問題這個的確是非常的重要那美國在過去這麼十多年來一直都有跟我們這種國組的這個對話國際組織參與的這個對話那在對話之後也具體的提出的一些方式來協助我們"},{"start":224.019,"end":252.141,"text":"那最近這一次就是針對2758號決議案有很重要的這種發言但是將我們的國際參與交由其他的國家來幫我們協商的話那我想這個可能必須要去重新思考參與國際組織是我們政府要代表我們台灣人民的這個事情我們的這個權益不應該交由其他的國家來替我們來施行那我想我們的權益是掌握在我們的手中"},{"start":252.941,"end":274.815,"text":"現在目前就是因為沒有辦法進入所以我們也要借力使力啊對我們最主要的這個方向在這邊也跟委員報告就是我們希望能夠吸引更多的這些國家來支持我們在參與世界衛生組織那我們吸引到的這個國家去為我們去聯合進洽"},{"start":276.016,"end":277.237,"text":"這是一個國人關切而且非常很重視的看待那我希望下一個林佳榮部長"},{"start":298.075,"end":302.859,"text":"徐巧欣委員．立法委員．本席非常不解的地方．也對我們部長．"},{"start":317.509,"end":335.122,"text":"對國會提告立法委員是一個重大的事件因為目前外交部控告習曉欣是有關於捷克簽訂的一千萬美金援助烏克蘭其中指定的百分之三十到四十之間的採購"},{"start":336.783,"end":348.973,"text":"臺灣的一彩．有圖利特定的廠商的嫌疑．外交部在5月7號．赴北檢提告習曉新委員泄密．北檢已列入他這案．"},{"start":349.878,"end":374.401,"text":"我們剛剛習曉欣送了密件我們密件 我們外交部裡面的密件有兩種第一個是國家的密件第二個是公務員重要的密件但是它列入在什麼樣的密件 我不曉得但是你們向來 你們的密件都向來都是密件這個是不解的地方"},{"start":375.422,"end":402.394,"text":"那另外就是我要特別講的就是是不是這個只是由法條司來提供提告給徐喬欣另外就是我特別要講的是行政部門控告立法委員這是一個行政權透過司法權企圖迫使立法委員的權利限縮監督的權利那這可說是中華民國史上第一個"},{"start":403.454,"end":424.171,"text":"第一次在民主國家極為駭人聽聞的事件請部長務必講清楚公告的完整決策過程這樣未來若要追究責任或要論功行賞才知道要找誰另外我特別要講的是"},{"start":426.599,"end":455.356,"text":"行政部門控告立法委員的是一個大事無論結果如何我這個地方特別要講的未來產生重大的影響已經夠了我們藉此機會來明確的來誰是歸屬責任這件事未來可能有三件事情會發生第一件習巧芹委員可能敗訴第二個外交部可能敗訴第三"},{"start":456.55,"end":479.734,"text":"外交部可能會撤告但是如果請問一下部長如果習巧芯委員在敗訴的過程他必須要負法律責任對不對是因為違反了相關的新法的規定那請問如果是外交部敗訴的話誰要負政治的責任你來回答"},{"start":480.793,"end":497.522,"text":"這是一個假設性的問題。剛剛我已經問你了,如果習委員他在被提告的過程裡面,他敗訴了,他負法律責任,你剛剛說是,那如果外交部的"},{"start":498.422,"end":502.844,"text":"有關於未來的這個狀況如果說是告發的這一方如果說是裁判的這個結果對告發的一方不利的話"},{"start":523.132,"end":538.801,"text":"那我相信到時候那個因為告發的是我們外交部的那我們外交部應該是會去做這些適當的討論但是委員剛剛所說的這個事情我也必須要去做澄清我自己也是政治的學者我拿到政治學的這個博士"},{"start":539.381,"end":568.071,"text":"那就行政機構跟立法機構之間的關係是相互制衡是一個對立而相互制衡的關係而不是說永遠是由立法部門來制衡行政部門所以這種關係之下的話大家也要彼此相互的尊重今天你是在立法院背刑立法院背刑但是你提告我們國會的立法委員的立場"},{"start":569.191,"end":579.417,"text":"這是一個創造了歷史的一個害人害文的一個問題如果說是違反了刑法第132條的規定而我們沒有去處理的話可能受到影響是我們的國家利益"},{"start":586.201,"end":604.173,"text":"外交部長林佳龍來接這個爛攤子因為這個事情明明就是在期刊裡面都已經彰顯一千萬的美金來援助烏克蘭這是事實所以我們今天來講"},{"start":606.718,"end":618.854,"text":"我們國會希望是良性的一個表達安民的訴求而不是製造現在製造國會之間跟你們行政部門之間的尷尬的場面然後把問題丟給"},{"start":623.519,"end":644.027,"text":"如果說是一個文件這個是機密的然後把這個文件秀出來的話這個很明顯的就是違反了刑法第132條的這個規定那我們行政部門我們外交部這邊是受害者那可能我們的國家利益也會受到損害對於這件事情我們外交部沒有不處理的這個空間"},{"start":646.192,"end":662.249,"text":"你們現在不要混淆了國人的視聽今天我們不會立法委是授以人民國票出來站在這個舞台上來執行執行你們有沒有以公以平以公正"},{"start":663.19,"end":688.882,"text":"這是一個國人看待但是你們是專業行政部門不要去毀謠視聽因為你提告了立法委員這是一個重大的政治事件也是重大的事件那剛剛我才問你如果你們敗訴我一再一再講如果你們敗訴是誰要承擔是你來承擔還是林佳龍來承擔你來回答這個議題這個假設性的問題"},{"start":691.323,"end":706.569,"text":"不是假設性剛剛我已經問你了如果習曉新立法委員如果他是敗訴的時候我問你你說是負法律責任那請問這個是一個這是一個答案那現在我訪問你"},{"start":707.529,"end":735.146,"text":"外交部萬一敗訴的時候是林小龍負責呢還是你負責這個要跟國人交代嗎也跟委員報告一下就是說我們外交部去討論了有關於像這種把密件秀出來給記者的這個做法那這個很明確的違反了刑法第132條的這個規定我們認為說在這個事情上面我們的檢察官或者是我們的法官"},{"start":736.467,"end":756.881,"text":"如果意見來講徐小溪委員第一依什麼法條來提告他依什麼法條這個是一個疑問一個問號依什麼法條來問他從哪裡的法源那第二個剛剛委員正問你如果你們外交部倍數是誰要承擔是林佳龍承擔嗎你來回答"},{"start":758.547,"end":759.408,"text":"所以你還在毀謠國人的事情?你再毀謠視聽了"}]}}}}