{"id":152525,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152525","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7786a6f84a6532c04707a1e4e884a99f881f4f1090bc66a5abc25b9e10ac7e45b275fd82f9bbcf195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"11:05:22 - 11:19:18","影片長度":"00:13:56","會議時間":"2024-05-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員張嘉郡等19人擬具「農村再生條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員邱議瑩等17人擬具「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【5月15日及16日兩天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-15","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-12"},"duration":836,"end_time":"2024-05-15T11:19:18+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-15T11:05:22+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":701,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時5分）感謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言。再邀請陳部長。"],["主席：部長。"],["陳代理部長駿季：委員早。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。第一個議題，公糧收購的案子昨天在院會逕付二讀，交付協商，我希望本席在做協商的時候能夠得到你的支持，就誠如你所說的，我們要全面照顧我們的農民，13年沒有調漲的公糧，沒有理由不漲。物價、所有的生產成本，包括農藥、肥料及搬運工等等，烘乾的部分只有2塊，已經13年了，所以務必要調漲。這是本席給你的建議，認同嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們一致性的目標就是稻農的收益確保及提高，然後我們會有一個比較完整的相關配套措施來跟委員討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，那就等你，我們協商的時候。我會儘速召開協商，我們趕快……"],["陳代理部長駿季：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：完整的配套，照顧我們的農民。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是達成共識。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們希望能夠有一個完美的呈現跟全國國民報告，對於農民我們一定要好好照顧，謝謝。","接下來，本席要跟你討論的是我們今天所提案的第七條及第十五條。第十五條，因為農委會現在是農業部，所以相關的文字以及相關的單位我們必須要做調整。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，那是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：第十五條你們應該認同吧？"],["陳代理部長駿季：那是第二條。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：第二條，這個應該是認同吧？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們認同。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個認同嘛！"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：第七條是我們今天的重點，本席也提第七條及第十五條。第七條裡面，我們從民國101年開始，分為四個階段到116年，總金額是1,500億，是不是？"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：到116年就沒錢了，對不對？預計。"],["陳代理部長駿季：預計。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你用一個冷靜的思維，為什麼我們要提這個案子？因為我們很緊張，我們也希望做農業部的後盾，為農民開先鋒、做農民的後盾，為什麼這麼說？讓部長冷靜去思考，你的條文，農村再生條例裡頭，你就是多少錢？1,500億。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：如果你這1,500億，這個大框架沒有拿下來，你每一天就要跟乞丐一樣去拜託行政院，對不對？你這個大框架要不要拿下來？這一個條文應該要把1,500拿掉，首先這是你必須要去思維的。","第二個，我們很緊張，我們怕拜託行政院但不支持。那你要回到公務預算，你要擠你的公務預算，當然你非常誠意，農村再生條例到116年，在本席擔任書記長的時候通過這一個法案，本席要再次請教，116年之後中華民國政府農業部會不會繼續推動？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我絕對會繼續推動。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，絕對會繼續推動，我們的共識，我們再來找錢。第一個，1,500億的框架要先拿起來，我們為什麼會具體說出數字，因為我們很緊張，萬一你去拜託，但沒錢，排擠到你的公務預算，又會擠到其他預算。所以在這樣的情況之下你冷靜去思考，我們可以調整文字，目標也就是116年之後我們要繼續辦，而且經費不能少，所以我們願意寫一個也就是循政府預算去撥款，但先決條件是你必須要把1,500億這個部分拿掉，你才有法源依據去拜託，依照你財政上的次序去要求編列這個預算，對不對？"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，我非常感謝委員對農村再生經費的支持，但是以農業部的立場來講，因為在條文裡面如果列了這樣的金額，就違反了另外一個法律……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不要列金額嘛！本席告訴你，其實它有討論的空間，剛剛本席在主席台的時候已經宣布了，可以把金額拿下來，但是你1,500億也要拿下來，對不對？就是希望增加的也要拿下來，大家都不在上面寫金額，這樣才能每一年、每一年去編列預算啦！不然……"],["陳代理部長駿季：瞭解。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對不對？你認不認同本席所說的？"],["陳代理部長駿季：不過……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不然你們把1,500億匡在那裡，每一年就像乞丐一樣……"],["陳代理部長駿季：我知道，瞭解。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：農民沒有必要變成乞丐啦！對不對？"],["陳代理部長駿季：所以委員變成提了第4個版本，就是連經費都不寫的意思？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，待會兒……"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們再來研究一下。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你趕快研究，然後1,500億也要拿下來！待會兒我們審查法案的時候一起來努力，好不好？"],["陳代理部長駿季：瞭解。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是把它制定成依法可以每一年去編列預算。這樣才是真正釜底抽薪！好不好？這是第一個。"],["陳代理部長駿季：瞭解。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你們幕僚也趕快去研議那個方案。","本席要請教的第二個問題是，現行農會選舉罷免辦法和漁會選舉罷免辦法的第十一條第五項都規定，農（漁）會合格候選人，可以向農（漁）會申請提供所屬選區選舉人名冊之會員姓名及戶籍地址資料。但農（漁）會會員會提供其個人資料，是因申請加入農（漁）會為會員之需用，但農（漁）會卻在未經會員同意下，違反其個資蒐集之目的，提供給候選人做為選舉之用，根據目前的個資法，這樣會員的權益的確會被危害到。所以本席要請教……","邏輯更奇怪的一件事情是，你們竟然怎麼做呢？根據農（漁）會選罷法第十一條第六項及第七項的規範，農（漁）會應實施適當之安全措施，候選人並應於選舉結束後，確實將資料予以銷毀。要予以銷毀喔！可是有關農（漁）會應實施適當之安全措施，目前僅做到提供選舉人名冊，再加上浮水印嘛！對不對？"],["陳代理部長駿季：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以如果候選人申請取得名冊後，再重新抄錄，就等於破解了你的浮水印啊！我拿到資料，我自己去抄、自己去印啊！你們要怎麼圍堵？這是一個。接下來，抄錄或影印多少份選舉人名冊，你會知道嗎？你們的人有跟著去嗎？你不知道！你沒有辦法去管控啊！還有更離譜的，你們說選舉結束後要銷毀，誰銷毀？你告訴我，到目前為止，執行上有誰銷毀啊？你知道嗎？你有追蹤嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們沒有追蹤。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊！那你寫這個不是……","不好意思說啊！真的是離譜至極！浮水印可以被破解，一個政府政策的浮水印可以被破解！還有，白紙黑字寫著選舉結束申請人要把名冊銷毀，誰銷毀了？選舉完就完了，誰銷毀？你知不知道有沒有銷毀？有沒有管控？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員說明……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有沒有管控？"],["陳代理部長駿季：後面沒有相關的銷毀機制的確是一個非常大的漏洞。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：太離譜了嘛！對不對？哪有一個政府做這種事情！選舉耶！既然他們有選罷法，就要依法行事，還有個資法耶！統統都違法，而且行政部門也沒有管控，哪有這麼離譜的！對不對？你也認同這是不對的，因為我們知道現在個資保護受到高度重視，還有，現在詐騙很多耶！這些資料如果被拿去當做詐騙人頭戶，要怎麼還給我們民眾啊？我資料給農（漁）會，行政部門怎麼可以去做一個讓農（漁）會有機會成為詐騙集團的帳號！該不該打屁股啊？怎麼可能去做這種事情！離譜的政策之外，竟然還沒有管控！誰銷毀？浮水印都被破解！太離譜了！所以本席具體建議，你們應該要去討論農（漁）會的選罷法第十一條的修法並加以調整，基於人民的信賴保護原則，真正去保護大家的個資。","現在我們所有農（漁）會的會員都很緊張耶！大家擔心自己的資料會不會被印出去，一個帳號5,000塊錢，直接被賣掉成為詐騙的帳號耶！部長，你聽到會不會嚇到？"],["陳代理部長駿季：會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：太恐怖了耶！"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想跟委員說明，其實對於農（漁）會的選舉，農業部的立場就是要儘量確保它的公平，這是一個大原則，但是以現在的做法，提供這樣一個可以影印出來的書面資料，雖然有浮水印，但是後面沒有監督、銷毀機制的話，的確會造成委員所說的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：太離譜了！"],["陳代理部長駿季：所以我們會來檢討，就是怎麼樣在維持公平機制下，針對這個名冊的閱覽或是什麼樣的新規定。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：人民很恐慌，所以本席具體建議你趕快去檢討。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一週內提出方案，重點在於允許合格的候選人在一定的規範下得查閱選舉人名冊，這是公平的。大家要公平，但是不得對選舉人名冊有抄錄、攝影、影印、誦讀、錄音或者其他複製、保存的行為，對不對？"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，這是大原則……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是一定不可以的！"],["陳代理部長駿季：大原則是要公平，然後不能用類似影印的方式，因為照相也類似影印了嘛！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對！"],["陳代理部長駿季：所以我們後續會來做詳實的檢討。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席跟你建議得很清楚，請在一個禮拜內提出。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，我們一個禮拜內可以做個檢討。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一個禮拜你們提出之後，我們希望在一個月內完成草案的預告程序。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們提出草案以後會預告，讓利害關係人表達意見，然後再來做後續的處理。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，就一個月內完成預告。"],["陳代理部長駿季：一個禮拜可以。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一個禮拜拿出方案……"],["陳代理部長駿季：是提出方案，不是預告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，一個禮拜拿出方案，提出方案之後的一個月內完成預告。"],["陳代理部長駿季：如果那個方案很順利的話，當然馬上就預告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對！完成預告程序、馬上要公告。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你聽到這個就知道農民有多可憐，怎麼會資料都被公開！如果成為詐騙帳號，怎麼辦啊？農業部去設置一個讓全國農會、漁會有可能成為詐騙集團帳號的戶頭，這個太恐怖了！所以儘速，好不好？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員報告，當初這也是立法院……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，儘速！儘速！"],["陳代理部長駿季：立法院主決議處理的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：處理得不對就要改啦！對不對？"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，我們有達成共識，照那個時間，在一週內拿出你們的修法，如果內容OK，就在一個月內完成預告程序。","最後一個議題是：荔枝椿象可以炒來吃嗎？你有沒有吃過？"],["陳代理部長駿季：沒有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們食農法可以拿荔枝椿象來炒給人家看！這是什麼情形啊？"],["陳代理部長駿季：這個我已經……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個知識到底是怎麼跑出來的？太離譜了！"],["陳代理部長駿季：很離譜啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你有沒有吃過荔枝椿象用炒的？可以吃嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：那是在環境教育裡面的一個課程，但是這個課程也不適當啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對呀！你有沒有吃過？"],["陳代理部長駿季：沒有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊！你敢吃嗎？不行啦！你們也不能吃啦！因為這個是很危險的啦！"],["陳代理部長駿季：它不是可用食材，因為要變成食材要衛福部……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對！非可用食材竟然可以到我們的系統裡頭，公然這樣教人家……"],["陳代理部長駿季：這個是疏失啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：喔！有一個阿嬤弄完了，說這好像金龜子，這可以吃。我嚇死了，好不好？嚴格管控！"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們會檢討。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我告訴你，根據食安法，最高可以罰2億！錢固然重要，但最重要是觀念，政府部門不能帶頭做不對的事情嘛！"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們會深刻檢討。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：深刻檢討！好！"],["主席（楊委員瓊瓔）：接下來請邱志偉委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-12","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","張嘉郡","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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\"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 799.346, \"end\": 799.366, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,083 --> 00:00:00,363\n我們請楊瓊瓔發言謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言再邀請我們陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:15,032 --> 00:00:40,182\n部長好,第一個議題,公糧收購昨天在院會交付經負二讀交付協商。我希望本期在做協商的時候能夠得到你的支持。就誠如你所說的,我們要全面的照顧我們的農民。十三年沒有調漲的公糧,沒有理由不漲。所有的物價,所有的生產成本,包括農油、肥料、丁丁、搬運工、行、這兩口。\n\n3\n00:00:43,243 --> 00:01:06,619\n已經13年了,所以務必要調漲。」這是本席給你的建議,認同嗎?我想我們一致性的目標就是讓我們的稻農的收益確保跟提高嘛,然後我們會有一個相關的比較完整的配套措施來跟委員討論。好,那就等你,我們協商的時候我會盡速召開協商,我們趕快來完整配套照顧我們的農民,這是達成共識。\n\n4\n00:01:07,479 --> 00:01:12,503\n我們希望能夠有一個完美的一個呈現也給全國的國民報告我們的農民我們一定要好好照顧謝謝接下來本期要跟你討論的是我們今天所提案的第七條跟第十五條第十五條是因為我們由農委會現在是農業部所以相關的文字以及相關的單位我們必須要做調整第十五條你們應該認同吧\n\n5\n00:01:34,119 --> 00:01:40,562\n第二條,這個應該是認同吧?這個認同齁?那在第七條是我們今天的重點,本席也提第七條跟第十五條齁?那第七條裡面我們從民國101年開始分為四個階段,到116年,總金額是1500億是不是?是不是?好,那到116年就沒錢了,對不對?預計啦,預計就沒錢了齁?好,你一個冷靜的思維,為什麼我們要提這個案子?\n\n6\n00:02:03,931 --> 00:02:07,352\n因為我們很緊張我們也希望做農委農業部的後盾做農民的開先鋒做農民的後盾為什麼要這麼說呢給部長您冷靜去思考你的條文農村再生條例裡頭你就是多少錢一千五百億如果你這一千五百億這個大框架沒有拿下來你每一天就要跟著乞丐一樣去拜託行政院對不對\n\n7\n00:02:32,276 --> 00:02:34,258\n你這個大框架要不要拿下來1500億我們應該要把1500億在116年這一個條文應該要把1500億拿掉這是你必須要去思維的第一項\n\n8\n00:02:47,293 --> 00:03:04,278\n第二條,我們很緊張,我們怕拜託行政院不支持,那你要回到你的公務預算,你要急你的公務預算。當然你非常誠意,我本席再次請問,農村再生條例到116年,因為這個是本席擔任書記長的時候通過這個法案,那本席要再次請教116年之後,\n\n9\n00:03:12,521 --> 00:03:12,541\n案。」\n\n10\n00:03:28,886 --> 00:03:34,047\n我們為什麼會具體說出數字因為我們很緊張萬一你去拜託沒錢擠到你的公務預算又會擠到其他的預算所以在這樣的情況之下你冷靜去思考我們可以調整文字目標也就是116年之後我們要繼續辦而且經費不能少那所以我們願意寫一個也就是說依照政府的這個這個循政府預算\n\n11\n00:03:58,655 --> 00:04:17,777\n去撥款去撥款但是先決條件你必須要把一千五百億這一個部分要拿掉你才有辦法有法源依據去拜託去去編列你的依照你的財政的這個這個次序去要求編列這個預算對不對\n\n12\n00:04:20,247 --> 00:04:41,806\n對,我想非常感謝委員對這個農村再生條例經費的一個支持。但是以農業部的立場來講,因為在條文裡面如果列了這樣的一個金額就違反了另外一個法律的立法。不要列金額嘛!本席告訴我,其實他有討論空間。剛剛本席在主席台的時候已經宣布了,可以把金額拿下來,但是你1500億要拿下來,也要拿下來。\n\n13\n00:04:43,968 --> 00:04:46,409\n案：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會及第十五條條文修正草案案：立法院議員\n\n14\n00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:25,515\n一、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具«農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案》案。adequate?所以委員被人提的第四個版本就是連經費都不寫的意思啊?待會對待會我們對不對我們再來研究一下你趕快研究然後1500億還拿下來待會我們才會寫上我們審查法案的時候一起來努力好不好就是把它制定成你依法可以每一年去編列預算\n\n15\n00:05:27,097 --> 00:05:31,902\n這樣子才是真正的釜底抽薪啦!好不好?這個第一個齁!好!所以你們幕僚也趕快去研議那個方案喔!第二個本席要請教的農會選辦法的規定跟漁會選辦法的規定第十一條第五項的規定你說\n\n16\n00:05:47,319 --> 00:06:06,713\n合格候選人可以向農運會申請所屬選區選舉人名冊的會員姓名及戶籍地址資料。農運會提供個人資料是因為申請加入農運會為會員之需要,但是農運會卻沒有經過會員的同意。\n\n17\n00:06:11,916 --> 00:06:35,180\n違反了各自收集的這個目標﹚這個目的﹚所以目前的各自法這個的確是會有危害到所以本席要請教目前你們更邏輯更奇怪的一件事情你們竟然怎麼做呢?你們是這個選票法裡頭你說第11條第6項第7這個跟第7項呢?你們有說喔?\n\n18\n00:06:42,842 --> 00:07:08,659\n是規範農運會應該實施適當的安全措施即候選人應於選舉結束後確實將資料予以銷毀予以銷毀喔而且你說農運會適當的安全措施你目前僅就到提供選舉人名冊再加上申請人的幸福證還有什麼浮水印嘛對不對所以呢如果候選人申請取得名冊後\n\n19\n00:07:11,882 --> 00:07:20,909\n你等於破解了你的輔水印啊我哪要知道我自己去抄啊我自己去印啊你們怎麼圍堵啊這是一個喔接下來你抄錄了之後的選舉人名稱引印多少份你會知道嗎你們的人有跟著去嗎你不知道那還有更你沒有辦法去管控啊還有更離譜的你們說選舉結束後你要銷毀誰銷毀\n\n20\n00:07:37,722 --> 00:07:43,236\n你告訴我,到目前為止執行有誰銷毀啊?你知道嗎?你有追蹤嗎?你知道嗎?你有追蹤嗎?\n\n21\n00:07:46,752 --> 00:08:08,104\n我們沒有追蹤對啊那你這個不是不好意思說啊真的是離譜至極啊撫水印了被破解一個政府的政策撫水印了被破解還有寫了一個白紙寫黑字等到選舉完你要把名冊申請的人申請的人要把名冊消尾誰消尾啊\n\n22\n00:08:10,768 --> 00:08:16,991\n選舉完就完了誰消毀?你知不知道有沒有消毀?有沒有管控啊?有沒有管控?有沒有管控?對啊!你太離譜了嘛!對不對?哪有一個政府做這種事情?選舉欸!他要選辦法我們要依法行事欸!個資法有個資法欸!通通都違法!\n\n23\n00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:54,741\n而且行政部門也沒有管控,哪有這麼離間、這麼離譜?對不對?所以本期具體你也認同這是不對的因為我們知道現在個資保護是高度的重視那麼所以還有現在詐騙很多欸你這些資料如果拿去讓他成為詐騙的人頭戶\n\n24\n00:08:57,287 --> 00:09:06,654\n你怎麼還給我們民眾啊我資料給你農運會欸你怎麼可以行政部門去做一個讓農運會有機會成為詐騙集團的這個帳號啊該不該打屁股啊這沒有可能去做這種事情離譜的政策之外還沒有管控誰銷毀\n\n25\n00:09:20,169 --> 00:09:22,372\n二、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文\n\n26\n00:09:37,222 --> 00:09:50,454\n人民的信賴保護原則真正以他們的個資保護啊現在我們所有農委會的會員都很緊張耶我會不會被印出去直接就拿去賣了一個億一個帳號五千塊我統統成為詐騙的帳號耶部長你聽到這你會嚇到耶\n\n27\n00:09:58,783 --> 00:10:25,464\n太恐怖了欸!我想跟委員說明齁,就是其實農委的選舉齁,農業部的立場就是要盡量去確保它的公平,這是一個大決策。但是以現在的做法,的確後面的提供這樣的一個資料齁,書面的就是可以引印出來的資料以後,雖然說有浮水印,但是後面的監督銷毀的機制沒有的時候,的確會照著委員所說的。\n\n28\n00:10:26,164 --> 00:10:41,418\n所以我們會來檢討就是在怎麼樣在維持一個公平的一個機制下去檢討他的一個針對這個名冊的閱覽或是什麼樣的一個新的一個規定人們也很恐慌所以本期具體建議你趕快去檢討一週內提出方案\n\n29\n00:10:43,900 --> 00:11:07,057\n重點在於你草案中允許合格的候選人在一定的規範下得去查閱選舉人名冊這是公平的大家要公平但是不得對選舉人名冊有抄錄有攝影有擬印有聳讀還有錄音或者其他複製或者是保存的行為對不對\n\n30\n00:11:08,638 --> 00:11:12,480\n這個一定不可以的!對!所以我們後續會來做詳細的檢討。那在一個禮拜內提出?對,我們一個禮拜內提出。好,一個禮拜內提出。那在一個禮拜你提出了之後,我們希望在一個月完成草案的預告程序。\n\n31\n00:11:31,220 --> 00:11:36,083\n一個禮拜可以一個禮拜拿出方案一個禮拜拿出方案然後提出方案之後的一個月內完成預告\n\n32\n00:11:53,334 --> 00:11:53,354\n案。\n\n33\n00:12:12,356 --> 00:12:16,658\n農業部去設置一個讓全國農會、漁會成為有可能是詐騙集團帳號的戶頭,這個太恐怖了,所以禁訴好不好?禁訴!禁訴!好!\n\n34\n00:12:29,382 --> 00:12:47,756\n處理都不對就要改啦!對不對?好!我們有達成共識照那個時間一週內拿出你們的修法一個如果程序OK這個內容OK大家就一個月內預告程序完成最後一個議題喔你那個荔枝春香可以炒來吃嗎?你有沒有吃過?\n\n35\n00:12:49,438 --> 00:13:14,712\n阿你吃不吃?不吃你農師華可以去叫荔枝去去拿荔枝春香來炒給人家看這是什麼情形阿?這個這個我已經齁這個地形是到底怎麼造出來的?這太離譜了很離譜啦阿你有沒有吃過荔枝春香用炒的?沒有阿可以吃嗎?那個環境教育在環境教育裡面的一個課程但是這個課程也不適當啦對啊阿你有沒有吃過?沒有對啊你覺得吃嗎?\n\n36\n00:13:19,346 --> 00:13:19,366\n案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n83\t363\t我們請楊瓊瓔發言謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言再邀請我們陳部長\n15032\t40182\t部長好,第一個議題,公糧收購昨天在院會交付經負二讀交付協商。我希望本期在做協商的時候能夠得到你的支持。就誠如你所說的,我們要全面的照顧我們的農民。十三年沒有調漲的公糧,沒有理由不漲。所有的物價,所有的生產成本,包括農油、肥料、丁丁、搬運工、行、這兩口。\n43243\t66619\t已經13年了,所以務必要調漲。」這是本席給你的建議,認同嗎?我想我們一致性的目標就是讓我們的稻農的收益確保跟提高嘛,然後我們會有一個相關的比較完整的配套措施來跟委員討論。好,那就等你,我們協商的時候我會盡速召開協商,我們趕快來完整配套照顧我們的農民,這是達成共識。\n67479\t72503\t我們希望能夠有一個完美的一個呈現也給全國的國民報告我們的農民我們一定要好好照顧謝謝接下來本期要跟你討論的是我們今天所提案的第七條跟第十五條第十五條是因為我們由農委會現在是農業部所以相關的文字以及相關的單位我們必須要做調整第十五條你們應該認同吧\n94119\t100562\t第二條,這個應該是認同吧?這個認同齁?那在第七條是我們今天的重點,本席也提第七條跟第十五條齁?那第七條裡面我們從民國101年開始分為四個階段,到116年,總金額是1500億是不是?是不是?好,那到116年就沒錢了,對不對?預計啦,預計就沒錢了齁?好,你一個冷靜的思維,為什麼我們要提這個案子?\n123931\t127352\t因為我們很緊張我們也希望做農委農業部的後盾做農民的開先鋒做農民的後盾為什麼要這麼說呢給部長您冷靜去思考你的條文農村再生條例裡頭你就是多少錢一千五百億如果你這一千五百億這個大框架沒有拿下來你每一天就要跟著乞丐一樣去拜託行政院對不對\n152276\t154258\t你這個大框架要不要拿下來1500億我們應該要把1500億在116年這一個條文應該要把1500億拿掉這是你必須要去思維的第一項\n167293\t184278\t第二條,我們很緊張,我們怕拜託行政院不支持,那你要回到你的公務預算,你要急你的公務預算。當然你非常誠意,我本席再次請問,農村再生條例到116年,因為這個是本席擔任書記長的時候通過這個法案,那本席要再次請教116年之後,\n192521\t192541\t案。」\n208886\t214047\t我們為什麼會具體說出數字因為我們很緊張萬一你去拜託沒錢擠到你的公務預算又會擠到其他的預算所以在這樣的情況之下你冷靜去思考我們可以調整文字目標也就是116年之後我們要繼續辦而且經費不能少那所以我們願意寫一個也就是說依照政府的這個這個循政府預算\n238655\t257777\t去撥款去撥款但是先決條件你必須要把一千五百億這一個部分要拿掉你才有辦法有法源依據去拜託去去編列你的依照你的財政的這個這個次序去要求編列這個預算對不對\n260247\t281806\t對,我想非常感謝委員對這個農村再生條例經費的一個支持。但是以農業部的立場來講,因為在條文裡面如果列了這樣的一個金額就違反了另外一個法律的立法。不要列金額嘛!本席告訴我,其實他有討論空間。剛剛本席在主席台的時候已經宣布了,可以把金額拿下來,但是你1500億要拿下來,也要拿下來。\n283968\t286409\t案：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會及第十五條條文修正草案案：立法院議員\n299640\t325515\t一、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案》案。adequate?所以委員被人提的第四個版本就是連經費都不寫的意思啊?待會對待會我們對不對我們再來研究一下你趕快研究然後1500億還拿下來待會我們才會寫上我們審查法案的時候一起來努力好不好就是把它制定成你依法可以每一年去編列預算\n327097\t331902\t這樣子才是真正的釜底抽薪啦!好不好?這個第一個齁!好!所以你們幕僚也趕快去研議那個方案喔!第二個本席要請教的農會選辦法的規定跟漁會選辦法的規定第十一條第五項的規定你說\n347319\t366713\t合格候選人可以向農運會申請所屬選區選舉人名冊的會員姓名及戶籍地址資料。農運會提供個人資料是因為申請加入農運會為會員之需要,但是農運會卻沒有經過會員的同意。\n371916\t395180\t違反了各自收集的這個目標﹚這個目的﹚所以目前的各自法這個的確是會有危害到所以本席要請教目前你們更邏輯更奇怪的一件事情你們竟然怎麼做呢?你們是這個選票法裡頭你說第11條第6項第7這個跟第7項呢?你們有說喔?\n402842\t428659\t是規範農運會應該實施適當的安全措施即候選人應於選舉結束後確實將資料予以銷毀予以銷毀喔而且你說農運會適當的安全措施你目前僅就到提供選舉人名冊再加上申請人的幸福證還有什麼浮水印嘛對不對所以呢如果候選人申請取得名冊後\n431882\t440909\t你等於破解了你的輔水印啊我哪要知道我自己去抄啊我自己去印啊你們怎麼圍堵啊這是一個喔接下來你抄錄了之後的選舉人名稱引印多少份你會知道嗎你們的人有跟著去嗎你不知道那還有更你沒有辦法去管控啊還有更離譜的你們說選舉結束後你要銷毀誰銷毀\n457722\t463236\t你告訴我,到目前為止執行有誰銷毀啊?你知道嗎?你有追蹤嗎?你知道嗎?你有追蹤嗎?\n466752\t488104\t我們沒有追蹤對啊 那你這個不是不好意思說啊 真的是離譜至極啊撫水印了被破解 一個政府的政策撫水印了被破解還有寫了一個白紙寫黑字等到選舉完你要把名冊 申請的人申請的人要把名冊消尾 誰消尾啊\n490768\t496991\t選舉完就完了誰消毀?你知不知道有沒有消毀?有沒有管控啊?有沒有管控?有沒有管控?對啊!你太離譜了嘛!對不對?哪有一個政府做這種事情?選舉欸!他要選辦法我們要依法行事欸!個資法有個資法欸!通通都違法!\n514760\t534741\t而且行政部門也沒有管控,哪有這麼離間、這麼離譜?對不對?所以本期具體你也認同這是不對的因為我們知道現在個資保護是高度的重視那麼所以還有現在詐騙很多欸你這些資料如果拿去讓他成為詐騙的人頭戶\n537287\t546654\t你怎麼還給我們民眾啊我資料給你農運會欸你怎麼可以行政部門去做一個讓農運會有機會成為詐騙集團的這個帳號啊該不該打屁股啊這沒有可能去做這種事情離譜的政策之外還沒有管控誰銷毀\n560169\t562372\t二、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文\n577222\t590454\t人民的信賴保護原則 真正以他們的個資保護啊現在我們所有農委會的會員都很緊張耶我會不會被印出去直接就拿去賣了一個億一個帳號五千塊我統統成為詐騙的帳號耶部長你聽到這你會嚇到耶\n598783\t625464\t太恐怖了欸!我想跟委員說明齁,就是其實農委的選舉齁,農業部的立場就是要盡量去確保它的公平,這是一個大決策。但是以現在的做法,的確後面的提供這樣的一個資料齁,書面的就是可以引印出來的資料以後,雖然說有浮水印,但是後面的監督銷毀的機制沒有的時候,的確會照著委員所說的。\n626164\t641418\t所以我們會來檢討就是在怎麼樣在維持一個公平的一個機制下去檢討他的一個針對這個名冊的閱覽或是什麼樣的一個新的一個規定人們也很恐慌所以本期具體建議你趕快去檢討一週內提出方案\n643900\t667057\t重點在於你草案中允許合格的候選人在一定的規範下得去查閱選舉人名冊這是公平的大家要公平但是不得對選舉人名冊有抄錄有攝影有擬印有聳讀還有錄音或者其他複製或者是保存的行為對不對\n668638\t672480\t這個一定不可以的!對!所以我們後續會來做詳細的檢討。那在一個禮拜內提出?對,我們一個禮拜內提出。好,一個禮拜內提出。那在一個禮拜你提出了之後,我們希望在一個月完成草案的預告程序。\n691220\t696083\t一個禮拜可以一個禮拜拿出方案一個禮拜拿出方案然後提出方案之後的一個月內完成預告\n713334\t713354\t案。\n732356\t736658\t農業部去設置一個讓全國農會、漁會成為有可能是詐騙集團帳號的戶頭,這個太恐怖了,所以禁訴好不好?禁訴!禁訴!好!\n749382\t767756\t處理都不對就要改啦!對不對?好!我們有達成共識照那個時間一週內拿出你們的修法一個如果程序OK這個內容OK大家就一個月內預告程序完成最後一個議題喔你那個荔枝春香可以炒來吃嗎?你有沒有吃過?\n769438\t794712\t阿你吃不吃?不吃你農師華可以去叫荔枝去去拿荔枝春香來炒給人家看這是什麼情形阿?這個這個我已經齁這個地形是到底怎麼造出來的?這太離譜了很離譜啦阿你有沒有吃過荔枝春香用炒的?沒有阿可以吃嗎?那個環境教育在環境教育裡面的一個課程但是這個課程也不適當啦對啊阿你有沒有吃過?沒有對啊你覺得吃嗎?\n799346\t799366\t案。\n816135\t833848\t檢討\n","txt":"我們請楊瓊瓔發言謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言再邀請我們陳部長\n部長好,第一個議題,公糧收購昨天在院會交付經負二讀交付協商。我希望本期在做協商的時候能夠得到你的支持。就誠如你所說的,我們要全面的照顧我們的農民。十三年沒有調漲的公糧,沒有理由不漲。所有的物價,所有的生產成本,包括農油、肥料、丁丁、搬運工、行、這兩口。\n已經13年了,所以務必要調漲。」這是本席給你的建議,認同嗎?我想我們一致性的目標就是讓我們的稻農的收益確保跟提高嘛,然後我們會有一個相關的比較完整的配套措施來跟委員討論。好,那就等你,我們協商的時候我會盡速召開協商,我們趕快來完整配套照顧我們的農民,這是達成共識。\n我們希望能夠有一個完美的一個呈現也給全國的國民報告我們的農民我們一定要好好照顧謝謝接下來本期要跟你討論的是我們今天所提案的第七條跟第十五條第十五條是因為我們由農委會現在是農業部所以相關的文字以及相關的單位我們必須要做調整第十五條你們應該認同吧\n第二條,這個應該是認同吧?這個認同齁?那在第七條是我們今天的重點,本席也提第七條跟第十五條齁?那第七條裡面我們從民國101年開始分為四個階段,到116年,總金額是1500億是不是?是不是?好,那到116年就沒錢了,對不對?預計啦,預計就沒錢了齁?好,你一個冷靜的思維,為什麼我們要提這個案子?\n因為我們很緊張我們也希望做農委農業部的後盾做農民的開先鋒做農民的後盾為什麼要這麼說呢給部長您冷靜去思考你的條文農村再生條例裡頭你就是多少錢一千五百億如果你這一千五百億這個大框架沒有拿下來你每一天就要跟著乞丐一樣去拜託行政院對不對\n你這個大框架要不要拿下來1500億我們應該要把1500億在116年這一個條文應該要把1500億拿掉這是你必須要去思維的第一項\n第二條,我們很緊張,我們怕拜託行政院不支持,那你要回到你的公務預算,你要急你的公務預算。當然你非常誠意,我本席再次請問,農村再生條例到116年,因為這個是本席擔任書記長的時候通過這個法案,那本席要再次請教116年之後,\n案。」\n我們為什麼會具體說出數字因為我們很緊張萬一你去拜託沒錢擠到你的公務預算又會擠到其他的預算所以在這樣的情況之下你冷靜去思考我們可以調整文字目標也就是116年之後我們要繼續辦而且經費不能少那所以我們願意寫一個也就是說依照政府的這個這個循政府預算\n去撥款去撥款但是先決條件你必須要把一千五百億這一個部分要拿掉你才有辦法有法源依據去拜託去去編列你的依照你的財政的這個這個次序去要求編列這個預算對不對\n對,我想非常感謝委員對這個農村再生條例經費的一個支持。但是以農業部的立場來講,因為在條文裡面如果列了這樣的一個金額就違反了另外一個法律的立法。不要列金額嘛!本席告訴我,其實他有討論空間。剛剛本席在主席台的時候已經宣布了,可以把金額拿下來,但是你1500億要拿下來,也要拿下來。\n案：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會及第十五條條文修正草案案：立法院議員\n一、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案》案。adequate?所以委員被人提的第四個版本就是連經費都不寫的意思啊?待會對待會我們對不對我們再來研究一下你趕快研究然後1500億還拿下來待會我們才會寫上我們審查法案的時候一起來努力好不好就是把它制定成你依法可以每一年去編列預算\n這樣子才是真正的釜底抽薪啦!好不好?這個第一個齁!好!所以你們幕僚也趕快去研議那個方案喔!第二個本席要請教的農會選辦法的規定跟漁會選辦法的規定第十一條第五項的規定你說\n合格候選人可以向農運會申請所屬選區選舉人名冊的會員姓名及戶籍地址資料。農運會提供個人資料是因為申請加入農運會為會員之需要,但是農運會卻沒有經過會員的同意。\n違反了各自收集的這個目標﹚這個目的﹚所以目前的各自法這個的確是會有危害到所以本席要請教目前你們更邏輯更奇怪的一件事情你們竟然怎麼做呢?你們是這個選票法裡頭你說第11條第6項第7這個跟第7項呢?你們有說喔?\n是規範農運會應該實施適當的安全措施即候選人應於選舉結束後確實將資料予以銷毀予以銷毀喔而且你說農運會適當的安全措施你目前僅就到提供選舉人名冊再加上申請人的幸福證還有什麼浮水印嘛對不對所以呢如果候選人申請取得名冊後\n你等於破解了你的輔水印啊我哪要知道我自己去抄啊我自己去印啊你們怎麼圍堵啊這是一個喔接下來你抄錄了之後的選舉人名稱引印多少份你會知道嗎你們的人有跟著去嗎你不知道那還有更你沒有辦法去管控啊還有更離譜的你們說選舉結束後你要銷毀誰銷毀\n你告訴我,到目前為止執行有誰銷毀啊?你知道嗎?你有追蹤嗎?你知道嗎?你有追蹤嗎?\n我們沒有追蹤對啊 那你這個不是不好意思說啊 真的是離譜至極啊撫水印了被破解 一個政府的政策撫水印了被破解還有寫了一個白紙寫黑字等到選舉完你要把名冊 申請的人申請的人要把名冊消尾 誰消尾啊\n選舉完就完了誰消毀?你知不知道有沒有消毀?有沒有管控啊?有沒有管控?有沒有管控?對啊!你太離譜了嘛!對不對?哪有一個政府做這種事情?選舉欸!他要選辦法我們要依法行事欸!個資法有個資法欸!通通都違法!\n而且行政部門也沒有管控,哪有這麼離間、這麼離譜?對不對?所以本期具體你也認同這是不對的因為我們知道現在個資保護是高度的重視那麼所以還有現在詐騙很多欸你這些資料如果拿去讓他成為詐騙的人頭戶\n你怎麼還給我們民眾啊我資料給你農運會欸你怎麼可以行政部門去做一個讓農運會有機會成為詐騙集團的這個帳號啊該不該打屁股啊這沒有可能去做這種事情離譜的政策之外還沒有管控誰銷毀\n二、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文\n人民的信賴保護原則 真正以他們的個資保護啊現在我們所有農委會的會員都很緊張耶我會不會被印出去直接就拿去賣了一個億一個帳號五千塊我統統成為詐騙的帳號耶部長你聽到這你會嚇到耶\n太恐怖了欸!我想跟委員說明齁,就是其實農委的選舉齁,農業部的立場就是要盡量去確保它的公平,這是一個大決策。但是以現在的做法,的確後面的提供這樣的一個資料齁,書面的就是可以引印出來的資料以後,雖然說有浮水印,但是後面的監督銷毀的機制沒有的時候,的確會照著委員所說的。\n所以我們會來檢討就是在怎麼樣在維持一個公平的一個機制下去檢討他的一個針對這個名冊的閱覽或是什麼樣的一個新的一個規定人們也很恐慌所以本期具體建議你趕快去檢討一週內提出方案\n重點在於你草案中允許合格的候選人在一定的規範下得去查閱選舉人名冊這是公平的大家要公平但是不得對選舉人名冊有抄錄有攝影有擬印有聳讀還有錄音或者其他複製或者是保存的行為對不對\n這個一定不可以的!對!所以我們後續會來做詳細的檢討。那在一個禮拜內提出?對,我們一個禮拜內提出。好,一個禮拜內提出。那在一個禮拜你提出了之後,我們希望在一個月完成草案的預告程序。\n一個禮拜可以一個禮拜拿出方案一個禮拜拿出方案然後提出方案之後的一個月內完成預告\n案。\n農業部去設置一個讓全國農會、漁會成為有可能是詐騙集團帳號的戶頭,這個太恐怖了,所以禁訴好不好?禁訴!禁訴!好!\n處理都不對就要改啦!對不對?好!我們有達成共識照那個時間一週內拿出你們的修法一個如果程序OK這個內容OK大家就一個月內預告程序完成最後一個議題喔你那個荔枝春香可以炒來吃嗎?你有沒有吃過?\n阿你吃不吃?不吃你農師華可以去叫荔枝去去拿荔枝春香來炒給人家看這是什麼情形阿?這個這個我已經齁這個地形是到底怎麼造出來的?這太離譜了很離譜啦阿你有沒有吃過荔枝春香用炒的?沒有阿可以吃嗎?那個環境教育在環境教育裡面的一個課程但是這個課程也不適當啦對啊阿你有沒有吃過?沒有對啊你覺得吃嗎?\n案。\n檢討\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.083 --> 00:00.363\n我們請楊瓊瓔發言謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言再邀請我們陳部長\n\n00:15.032 --> 00:40.182\n部長好,第一個議題,公糧收購昨天在院會交付經負二讀交付協商。我希望本期在做協商的時候能夠得到你的支持。就誠如你所說的,我們要全面的照顧我們的農民。十三年沒有調漲的公糧,沒有理由不漲。所有的物價,所有的生產成本,包括農油、肥料、丁丁、搬運工、行、這兩口。\n\n00:43.243 --> 01:06.619\n已經13年了,所以務必要調漲。」這是本席給你的建議,認同嗎?我想我們一致性的目標就是讓我們的稻農的收益確保跟提高嘛,然後我們會有一個相關的比較完整的配套措施來跟委員討論。好,那就等你,我們協商的時候我會盡速召開協商,我們趕快來完整配套照顧我們的農民,這是達成共識。\n\n01:07.479 --> 01:12.503\n我們希望能夠有一個完美的一個呈現也給全國的國民報告我們的農民我們一定要好好照顧謝謝接下來本期要跟你討論的是我們今天所提案的第七條跟第十五條第十五條是因為我們由農委會現在是農業部所以相關的文字以及相關的單位我們必須要做調整第十五條你們應該認同吧\n\n01:34.119 --> 01:40.562\n第二條,這個應該是認同吧?這個認同齁?那在第七條是我們今天的重點,本席也提第七條跟第十五條齁?那第七條裡面我們從民國101年開始分為四個階段,到116年,總金額是1500億是不是?是不是?好,那到116年就沒錢了,對不對?預計啦,預計就沒錢了齁?好,你一個冷靜的思維,為什麼我們要提這個案子?\n\n02:03.931 --> 02:07.352\n因為我們很緊張我們也希望做農委農業部的後盾做農民的開先鋒做農民的後盾為什麼要這麼說呢給部長您冷靜去思考你的條文農村再生條例裡頭你就是多少錢一千五百億如果你這一千五百億這個大框架沒有拿下來你每一天就要跟著乞丐一樣去拜託行政院對不對\n\n02:32.276 --> 02:34.258\n你這個大框架要不要拿下來1500億我們應該要把1500億在116年這一個條文應該要把1500億拿掉這是你必須要去思維的第一項\n\n02:47.293 --> 03:04.278\n第二條,我們很緊張,我們怕拜託行政院不支持,那你要回到你的公務預算,你要急你的公務預算。當然你非常誠意,我本席再次請問,農村再生條例到116年,因為這個是本席擔任書記長的時候通過這個法案,那本席要再次請教116年之後,\n\n03:12.521 --> 03:12.541\n案。」\n\n03:28.886 --> 03:34.047\n我們為什麼會具體說出數字因為我們很緊張萬一你去拜託沒錢擠到你的公務預算又會擠到其他的預算所以在這樣的情況之下你冷靜去思考我們可以調整文字目標也就是116年之後我們要繼續辦而且經費不能少那所以我們願意寫一個也就是說依照政府的這個這個循政府預算\n\n03:58.655 --> 04:17.777\n去撥款去撥款但是先決條件你必須要把一千五百億這一個部分要拿掉你才有辦法有法源依據去拜託去去編列你的依照你的財政的這個這個次序去要求編列這個預算對不對\n\n04:20.247 --> 04:41.806\n對,我想非常感謝委員對這個農村再生條例經費的一個支持。但是以農業部的立場來講,因為在條文裡面如果列了這樣的一個金額就違反了另外一個法律的立法。不要列金額嘛!本席告訴我,其實他有討論空間。剛剛本席在主席台的時候已經宣布了,可以把金額拿下來,但是你1500億要拿下來,也要拿下來。\n\n04:43.968 --> 04:46.409\n案：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會及第十五條條文修正草案案：立法院議員\n\n04:59.640 --> 05:25.515\n一、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具«農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案》案。adequate?所以委員被人提的第四個版本就是連經費都不寫的意思啊?待會對待會我們對不對我們再來研究一下你趕快研究然後1500億還拿下來待會我們才會寫上我們審查法案的時候一起來努力好不好就是把它制定成你依法可以每一年去編列預算\n\n05:27.097 --> 05:31.902\n這樣子才是真正的釜底抽薪啦!好不好?這個第一個齁!好!所以你們幕僚也趕快去研議那個方案喔!第二個本席要請教的農會選辦法的規定跟漁會選辦法的規定第十一條第五項的規定你說\n\n05:47.319 --> 06:06.713\n合格候選人可以向農運會申請所屬選區選舉人名冊的會員姓名及戶籍地址資料。農運會提供個人資料是因為申請加入農運會為會員之需要,但是農運會卻沒有經過會員的同意。\n\n06:11.916 --> 06:35.180\n違反了各自收集的這個目標﹚這個目的﹚所以目前的各自法這個的確是會有危害到所以本席要請教目前你們更邏輯更奇怪的一件事情你們竟然怎麼做呢?你們是這個選票法裡頭你說第11條第6項第7這個跟第7項呢?你們有說喔?\n\n06:42.842 --> 07:08.659\n是規範農運會應該實施適當的安全措施即候選人應於選舉結束後確實將資料予以銷毀予以銷毀喔而且你說農運會適當的安全措施你目前僅就到提供選舉人名冊再加上申請人的幸福證還有什麼浮水印嘛對不對所以呢如果候選人申請取得名冊後\n\n07:11.882 --> 07:20.909\n你等於破解了你的輔水印啊我哪要知道我自己去抄啊我自己去印啊你們怎麼圍堵啊這是一個喔接下來你抄錄了之後的選舉人名稱引印多少份你會知道嗎你們的人有跟著去嗎你不知道那還有更你沒有辦法去管控啊還有更離譜的你們說選舉結束後你要銷毀誰銷毀\n\n07:37.722 --> 07:43.236\n你告訴我,到目前為止執行有誰銷毀啊?你知道嗎?你有追蹤嗎?你知道嗎?你有追蹤嗎?\n\n07:46.752 --> 08:08.104\n我們沒有追蹤對啊那你這個不是不好意思說啊真的是離譜至極啊撫水印了被破解一個政府的政策撫水印了被破解還有寫了一個白紙寫黑字等到選舉完你要把名冊申請的人申請的人要把名冊消尾誰消尾啊\n\n08:10.768 --> 08:16.991\n選舉完就完了誰消毀?你知不知道有沒有消毀?有沒有管控啊?有沒有管控?有沒有管控?對啊!你太離譜了嘛!對不對?哪有一個政府做這種事情?選舉欸!他要選辦法我們要依法行事欸!個資法有個資法欸!通通都違法!\n\n08:34.760 --> 08:54.741\n而且行政部門也沒有管控,哪有這麼離間、這麼離譜?對不對?所以本期具體你也認同這是不對的因為我們知道現在個資保護是高度的重視那麼所以還有現在詐騙很多欸你這些資料如果拿去讓他成為詐騙的人頭戶\n\n08:57.287 --> 09:06.654\n你怎麼還給我們民眾啊我資料給你農運會欸你怎麼可以行政部門去做一個讓農運會有機會成為詐騙集團的這個帳號啊該不該打屁股啊這沒有可能去做這種事情離譜的政策之外還沒有管控誰銷毀\n\n09:20.169 --> 09:22.372\n二、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文\n\n09:37.222 --> 09:50.454\n人民的信賴保護原則真正以他們的個資保護啊現在我們所有農委會的會員都很緊張耶我會不會被印出去直接就拿去賣了一個億一個帳號五千塊我統統成為詐騙的帳號耶部長你聽到這你會嚇到耶\n\n09:58.783 --> 10:25.464\n太恐怖了欸!我想跟委員說明齁,就是其實農委的選舉齁,農業部的立場就是要盡量去確保它的公平,這是一個大決策。但是以現在的做法,的確後面的提供這樣的一個資料齁,書面的就是可以引印出來的資料以後,雖然說有浮水印,但是後面的監督銷毀的機制沒有的時候,的確會照著委員所說的。\n\n10:26.164 --> 10:41.418\n所以我們會來檢討就是在怎麼樣在維持一個公平的一個機制下去檢討他的一個針對這個名冊的閱覽或是什麼樣的一個新的一個規定人們也很恐慌所以本期具體建議你趕快去檢討一週內提出方案\n\n10:43.900 --> 11:07.057\n重點在於你草案中允許合格的候選人在一定的規範下得去查閱選舉人名冊這是公平的大家要公平但是不得對選舉人名冊有抄錄有攝影有擬印有聳讀還有錄音或者其他複製或者是保存的行為對不對\n\n11:08.638 --> 11:12.480\n這個一定不可以的!對!所以我們後續會來做詳細的檢討。那在一個禮拜內提出?對,我們一個禮拜內提出。好,一個禮拜內提出。那在一個禮拜你提出了之後,我們希望在一個月完成草案的預告程序。\n\n11:31.220 --> 11:36.083\n一個禮拜可以一個禮拜拿出方案一個禮拜拿出方案然後提出方案之後的一個月內完成預告\n\n11:53.334 --> 11:53.354\n案。\n\n12:12.356 --> 12:16.658\n農業部去設置一個讓全國農會、漁會成為有可能是詐騙集團帳號的戶頭,這個太恐怖了,所以禁訴好不好?禁訴!禁訴!好!\n\n12:29.382 --> 12:47.756\n處理都不對就要改啦!對不對?好!我們有達成共識照那個時間一週內拿出你們的修法一個如果程序OK這個內容OK大家就一個月內預告程序完成最後一個議題喔你那個荔枝春香可以炒來吃嗎?你有沒有吃過?\n\n12:49.438 --> 13:14.712\n阿你吃不吃?不吃你農師華可以去叫荔枝去去拿荔枝春香來炒給人家看這是什麼情形阿?這個這個我已經齁這個地形是到底怎麼造出來的?這太離譜了很離譜啦阿你有沒有吃過荔枝春香用炒的?沒有阿可以吃嗎?那個環境教育在環境教育裡面的一個課程但是這個課程也不適當啦對啊阿你有沒有吃過?沒有對啊你覺得吃嗎?\n\n13:19.346 --> 13:19.366\n案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.083,"end":0.363,"text":"我們請楊瓊瓔發言謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言再邀請我們陳部長"},{"start":15.032,"end":40.182,"text":"部長好,第一個議題,公糧收購昨天在院會交付經負二讀交付協商。我希望本期在做協商的時候能夠得到你的支持。就誠如你所說的,我們要全面的照顧我們的農民。十三年沒有調漲的公糧,沒有理由不漲。所有的物價,所有的生產成本,包括農油、肥料、丁丁、搬運工、行、這兩口。"},{"start":43.243,"end":66.619,"text":"已經13年了,所以務必要調漲。」這是本席給你的建議,認同嗎?我想我們一致性的目標就是讓我們的稻農的收益確保跟提高嘛,然後我們會有一個相關的比較完整的配套措施來跟委員討論。好,那就等你,我們協商的時候我會盡速召開協商,我們趕快來完整配套照顧我們的農民,這是達成共識。"},{"start":67.479,"end":72.503,"text":"我們希望能夠有一個完美的一個呈現也給全國的國民報告我們的農民我們一定要好好照顧謝謝接下來本期要跟你討論的是我們今天所提案的第七條跟第十五條第十五條是因為我們由農委會現在是農業部所以相關的文字以及相關的單位我們必須要做調整第十五條你們應該認同吧"},{"start":94.119,"end":100.562,"text":"第二條,這個應該是認同吧?這個認同齁?那在第七條是我們今天的重點,本席也提第七條跟第十五條齁?那第七條裡面我們從民國101年開始分為四個階段,到116年,總金額是1500億是不是?是不是?好,那到116年就沒錢了,對不對?預計啦,預計就沒錢了齁?好,你一個冷靜的思維,為什麼我們要提這個案子?"},{"start":123.931,"end":127.352,"text":"因為我們很緊張我們也希望做農委農業部的後盾做農民的開先鋒做農民的後盾為什麼要這麼說呢給部長您冷靜去思考你的條文農村再生條例裡頭你就是多少錢一千五百億如果你這一千五百億這個大框架沒有拿下來你每一天就要跟著乞丐一樣去拜託行政院對不對"},{"start":152.276,"end":154.258,"text":"你這個大框架要不要拿下來1500億我們應該要把1500億在116年這一個條文應該要把1500億拿掉這是你必須要去思維的第一項"},{"start":167.293,"end":184.278,"text":"第二條,我們很緊張,我們怕拜託行政院不支持,那你要回到你的公務預算,你要急你的公務預算。當然你非常誠意,我本席再次請問,農村再生條例到116年,因為這個是本席擔任書記長的時候通過這個法案,那本席要再次請教116年之後,"},{"start":192.521,"end":192.541,"text":"案。」"},{"start":208.886,"end":214.047,"text":"我們為什麼會具體說出數字因為我們很緊張萬一你去拜託沒錢擠到你的公務預算又會擠到其他的預算所以在這樣的情況之下你冷靜去思考我們可以調整文字目標也就是116年之後我們要繼續辦而且經費不能少那所以我們願意寫一個也就是說依照政府的這個這個循政府預算"},{"start":238.655,"end":257.777,"text":"去撥款去撥款但是先決條件你必須要把一千五百億這一個部分要拿掉你才有辦法有法源依據去拜託去去編列你的依照你的財政的這個這個次序去要求編列這個預算對不對"},{"start":260.247,"end":281.806,"text":"對,我想非常感謝委員對這個農村再生條例經費的一個支持。但是以農業部的立場來講,因為在條文裡面如果列了這樣的一個金額就違反了另外一個法律的立法。不要列金額嘛!本席告訴我,其實他有討論空間。剛剛本席在主席台的時候已經宣布了,可以把金額拿下來,但是你1500億要拿下來,也要拿下來。"},{"start":283.968,"end":286.409,"text":"案：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會及第十五條條文修正草案案：立法院議員"},{"start":299.64,"end":325.515,"text":"一、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具 «農村再生條例第十五條條文修正草案》案。adequate?所以委員被人提的第四個版本就是連經費都不寫的意思啊?待會對待會我們對不對我們再來研究一下你趕快研究然後1500億還拿下來待會我們才會寫上我們審查法案的時候一起來努力好不好就是把它制定成你依法可以每一年去編列預算"},{"start":327.097,"end":331.902,"text":"這樣子才是真正的釜底抽薪啦!好不好?這個第一個齁!好!所以你們幕僚也趕快去研議那個方案喔!第二個本席要請教的農會選辦法的規定跟漁會選辦法的規定第十一條第五項的規定你說"},{"start":347.319,"end":366.713,"text":"合格候選人可以向農運會申請所屬選區選舉人名冊的會員姓名及戶籍地址資料。農運會提供個人資料是因為申請加入農運會為會員之需要,但是農運會卻沒有經過會員的同意。"},{"start":371.916,"end":395.18,"text":"違反了各自收集的這個目標﹚這個目的﹚所以目前的各自法這個的確是會有危害到所以本席要請教目前你們更邏輯更奇怪的一件事情你們竟然怎麼做呢?你們是這個選票法裡頭你說第11條第6項第7這個跟第7項呢?你們有說喔?"},{"start":402.842,"end":428.659,"text":"是規範農運會應該實施適當的安全措施即候選人應於選舉結束後確實將資料予以銷毀予以銷毀喔而且你說農運會適當的安全措施你目前僅就到提供選舉人名冊再加上申請人的幸福證還有什麼浮水印嘛對不對所以呢如果候選人申請取得名冊後"},{"start":431.882,"end":440.909,"text":"你等於破解了你的輔水印啊我哪要知道我自己去抄啊我自己去印啊你們怎麼圍堵啊這是一個喔接下來你抄錄了之後的選舉人名稱引印多少份你會知道嗎你們的人有跟著去嗎你不知道那還有更你沒有辦法去管控啊還有更離譜的你們說選舉結束後你要銷毀誰銷毀"},{"start":457.722,"end":463.236,"text":"你告訴我,到目前為止執行有誰銷毀啊?你知道嗎?你有追蹤嗎?你知道嗎?你有追蹤嗎?"},{"start":466.752,"end":488.104,"text":"我們沒有追蹤對啊 那你這個不是不好意思說啊 真的是離譜至極啊撫水印了被破解 一個政府的政策撫水印了被破解還有寫了一個白紙寫黑字等到選舉完你要把名冊 申請的人申請的人要把名冊消尾 誰消尾啊"},{"start":490.768,"end":496.991,"text":"選舉完就完了誰消毀?你知不知道有沒有消毀?有沒有管控啊?有沒有管控?有沒有管控?對啊!你太離譜了嘛!對不對?哪有一個政府做這種事情?選舉欸!他要選辦法我們要依法行事欸!個資法有個資法欸!通通都違法!"},{"start":514.76,"end":534.741,"text":"而且行政部門也沒有管控,哪有這麼離間、這麼離譜?對不對?所以本期具體你也認同這是不對的因為我們知道現在個資保護是高度的重視那麼所以還有現在詐騙很多欸你這些資料如果拿去讓他成為詐騙的人頭戶"},{"start":537.287,"end":546.654,"text":"你怎麼還給我們民眾啊我資料給你農運會欸你怎麼可以行政部門去做一個讓農運會有機會成為詐騙集團的這個帳號啊該不該打屁股啊這沒有可能去做這種事情離譜的政策之外還沒有管控誰銷毀"},{"start":560.169,"end":562.372,"text":"二、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文"},{"start":577.222,"end":590.454,"text":"人民的信賴保護原則 真正以他們的個資保護啊現在我們所有農委會的會員都很緊張耶我會不會被印出去直接就拿去賣了一個億一個帳號五千塊我統統成為詐騙的帳號耶部長你聽到這你會嚇到耶"},{"start":598.783,"end":625.464,"text":"太恐怖了欸!我想跟委員說明齁,就是其實農委的選舉齁,農業部的立場就是要盡量去確保它的公平,這是一個大決策。但是以現在的做法,的確後面的提供這樣的一個資料齁,書面的就是可以引印出來的資料以後,雖然說有浮水印,但是後面的監督銷毀的機制沒有的時候,的確會照著委員所說的。"},{"start":626.164,"end":641.418,"text":"所以我們會來檢討就是在怎麼樣在維持一個公平的一個機制下去檢討他的一個針對這個名冊的閱覽或是什麼樣的一個新的一個規定人們也很恐慌所以本期具體建議你趕快去檢討一週內提出方案"},{"start":643.9,"end":667.057,"text":"重點在於你草案中允許合格的候選人在一定的規範下得去查閱選舉人名冊這是公平的大家要公平但是不得對選舉人名冊有抄錄有攝影有擬印有聳讀還有錄音或者其他複製或者是保存的行為對不對"},{"start":668.638,"end":672.48,"text":"這個一定不可以的!對!所以我們後續會來做詳細的檢討。那在一個禮拜內提出?對,我們一個禮拜內提出。好,一個禮拜內提出。那在一個禮拜你提出了之後,我們希望在一個月完成草案的預告程序。"},{"start":691.22,"end":696.083,"text":"一個禮拜可以一個禮拜拿出方案一個禮拜拿出方案然後提出方案之後的一個月內完成預告"},{"start":713.334,"end":713.354,"text":"案。"},{"start":732.356,"end":736.658,"text":"農業部去設置一個讓全國農會、漁會成為有可能是詐騙集團帳號的戶頭,這個太恐怖了,所以禁訴好不好?禁訴!禁訴!好!"},{"start":749.382,"end":767.756,"text":"處理都不對就要改啦!對不對?好!我們有達成共識照那個時間一週內拿出你們的修法一個如果程序OK這個內容OK大家就一個月內預告程序完成最後一個議題喔你那個荔枝春香可以炒來吃嗎?你有沒有吃過?"},{"start":769.438,"end":794.712,"text":"阿你吃不吃?不吃你農師華可以去叫荔枝去去拿荔枝春香來炒給人家看這是什麼情形阿?這個這個我已經齁這個地形是到底怎麼造出來的?這太離譜了很離譜啦阿你有沒有吃過荔枝春香用炒的?沒有阿可以吃嗎?那個環境教育在環境教育裡面的一個課程但是這個課程也不適當啦對啊阿你有沒有吃過?沒有對啊你覺得吃嗎?"},{"start":799.346,"end":799.366,"text":"案。"},{"start":816.135,"end":833.848,"text":"檢討"}]}}}}