{"id":152530,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152530","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7786a6f84a6532c0671094dfe3d6f64c881f4f1090bc66a5abc25b9e10ac7e45ce2844124dec03b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:41:22 - 11:50:47","影片長度":"00:09:25","會議時間":"2024-05-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員張嘉郡等19人擬具「農村再生條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員邱議瑩等17人擬具「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【5月15日及16日兩天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-15","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-12"},"duration":565,"end_time":"2024-05-15T11:50:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-15T11:41:22+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":956,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時41分）主席，謝謝，麻煩請農業部部長。"],["主席：我們再請陳部長。"],["陳代理部長駿季：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我知道上午幾位委員都有針對荔枝樁象的議題跟你就教，你也講到要深刻檢討。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：但我真的很懷疑，農業部已經不是第一次發生創意食材的爭議，記不記得之前也有要推廣蝶豆花入菜，同樣有踩到紅線，因為國內不能把整個蝶豆花吃下去嘛。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在又發生這個荔枝椿象的議題，我們能不能討論一下，部長，說實在話，本席開宗明義講，公務員有創意，我覺得某種程度上不是壞事，為什麼？因為我們要鼓勵大家做事，過去的文化是多做多錯、少做少錯、不做不錯，所以我乾脆就不要去做，我就沒有錯，不會變成新聞焦點。當然今天的爭議是在於，明明不是一個可食用的食材，你卻把它變成是一個食用的食材，引發爭議，跟衛福部這邊，所以未來如果要推廣任何一個活動，有可能跨部會要先做討論，這點你同意嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員說明，就是以現在研究單位在開發相關的食材，他們會搜尋，目前衛福部不是列為可用食材，但是在國外是一個可用食材，所以他們覺得有機會在國內變成可用食材，他們就開始研發了。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你現在是要push衛福部去修法、修相關認定？"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，我們跟衛福部針對可用食材有定期的一些檢討，如果農業部發現一些目前沒有登錄為可用食材的，只要我們提出證明，符合一些相關規定，沒有毒性等等，這些規範給他們……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以多久開一次會？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們大概半年會把我們開發的這些相關的可能項目，目前沒有列到可用食材的，我們會提給他，然後看他們的意見，並且我們會開始準備相關資料，因為有些資料需要毒理試驗，我們就會去啟動這方面的研究。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長講到一個新點，所以你接下來是要請衛福部認定荔枝椿象為可用食材？"],["陳代理部長駿季：沒有，這個要看可用食材本身是可被消費者接受的，這個接受不是口味的接受，還有觀念的接受……"],["洪委員孟楷：觀感的接受。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，都要考慮。"],["洪委員孟楷：還有大家的飲食文化的接受。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，這個非常重要，如果不符合我們的飲食的話，我們絕對不能推。"],["洪委員孟楷：是嘛，所以部長你講了半天，我們現在就事論事，就是說荔枝椿象這個議題是在於推廣這個活動之前沒有找衛福部溝通嘛。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以貿然推出之後，造成大家一片譁然，怎麼會……如果是一般夜市，它可能會有觸法的問題，但一般民眾他不會去販賣這個，而且販賣可能會違反食安法嘛。"],["陳代理部長駿季：這個就是我要說……"],["洪委員孟楷：可是我們公部門帶頭作業一定是符合相關法規，結果沒有符合相關法規，這是一個。部長，我要問的其實是後面更重要的問題，為什麼要去推廣油炸荔枝椿象？是不是因為荔枝椿象在某種程度上有危害到我們現在的環境跟生活？"],["陳代理部長駿季：不是，我跟委員說明，實際的狀況是，這是在一個環境教育的課程，因為環境教育的課程他只是去展示，可能在其他的國家是可以用的，他只是在那邊去做一個示範，並沒有去做到推廣的動作。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，但是我們現在在講的是荔枝椿象是近年來新興的入侵外來種，對不對？"],["陳代理部長駿季：已經一段時間了。"],["洪委員孟楷：然後對於中南部來說，對於荔枝或是龍眼都造成嚴重的危害，甚至本席的選區淡水地區也有民眾講說，他現在不是在果樹上發現，他是在一般的田間、一般的路上，走路散步時發現無患子的樹枝上面就有3到5隻的荔枝椿象。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是，也會有。"],["洪委員孟楷：對。對於地方政府來說，對於荔枝椿象，農業局或是一些單位可能會有一些防護措施，但是其他的局處其實沒有，那中央有沒有統一標準？針對這個部分，如果民眾遇到，或者是地方政府應該要怎麼樣去因應？本席推敲的就是，為什麼我們中南部的局處會去辦這樣的一個活動？可能他也想的是，造成危害，除了用農藥，除了用其他生態平衡的方式，有沒有其他可能可以抑制這個外來種害蟲的一個方式。我現在要問的其實更直接，對於荔枝椿象在各縣市越來越多，造成我們民眾的生活有疑慮，也有講到荔枝椿象的毒液、牠的汁液會有毒，會造成皮膚的潰爛，現在中央有沒有明確的規定跟方式？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員報告，荔枝椿象的防治現在最大的盲點就是並沒有啟動區域的防治，而是個別的防治，這個區域防治不只是在農業區，農業區要區域防治，現在有很多休閒的步道，也會發生旁邊的樹木會有一些。所以我其實幾年前在臺中市農試所的時候，我就一直推，牠的共同防治，除了農業部門，也要跟交通部門一起來做共同的防治，這樣的話，才能夠把那個密度往下降。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，沒錯。"],["陳代理部長駿季：這個是後續我們也會繼續努力的。"],["洪委員孟楷：是。所以現在才講，因為各縣市政府可能也有局處之間的協調，不只是農業局的問題嘛，可能有觀光局、交通局等相關局處，但是中央主管機關農業部怎麼樣可以給各縣市政府一個清楚、明白的指引，讓各縣市政府能夠跨局處去做一個統合，這個部分農業部是不是應該要動作了？"],["陳代理部長駿季：是，我覺得有一部分是農業部的責任，我們應該把這些防範的指引寫清楚，因為跨局處的部分可能會依據不同地方政府局處之間的溝通平臺，我們農業部應該會跟主要的縣市去討論一個共同防治的……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在荔枝椿象比較氾濫的有哪幾個縣市？除了中南部，新北市算不算？"],["陳代理部長駿季：高屏嘉南以外，新北市還有中彰投這邊都有，其實大部分的縣市都有，而且像都會區的話，可能都在步道，步道反而會多。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒錯，本席的選區也有民眾在臉書社團中貼文說，他們去走散步的步道，在樹上發現荔枝椿象，也提醒大家要小心，避免皮膚碰到牠的汁液。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席要比較具體地建議，部長，是不是應該找幾個現在已經有掌握比較嚴重的縣市來討論，並且有一個比較清楚、明白的指引來做防治？"],["陳代理部長駿季：可以，這個我們可以做得到。"],["洪委員孟楷：多久做到？1個月內？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想1個月之內我們一定會跟……第一個，我會先跟交通部的觀光局那邊去做，因為這個跟交通有關，之後才會召集主要的，如果是都會區的話，就是以交通部觀光局為主，絕對不只是叫民眾小心，一定要有更積極的防護作為，我想這個我們會努力。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒錯，這就是重點，就是民眾自保，在社團上講說小心，有發現，我們不要去碰觸，但是不是有更積極的作為？包括說外來種最有名的其實是什麼？紅火蟻，有沒有？有些地方紅火蟻一入侵之後，整個地區是不能用的，甚至要隔離，小朋友都不能前往，然後還要投藥。一樣的道理，當然荔枝椿象現在的危害度有沒有到那麼高，要由專業判斷，但本席希望農業部找相關部會以及各縣市，尤其是比較氾濫的這些縣市來做一個討論，該專業的投藥還是專業的驅蟲，還是用生態平衡方式，也有人講說一物剋一物嘛，荔枝椿象可能怕的是其他的蟲，怎麼樣能夠讓……"],["陳代理部長駿季：用生物防治的部分。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，生物防治來達到生態平衡，這些要請農業部訂出指引，1個月內找相關縣市來開會。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們一定會去做，也非常謝謝委員的提醒，讓我們有機會跟其他的部會一起合作，不只在農業區，非農業區的部分我們會一併來處理。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，拿出辦法來。"],["陳代理部長駿季：會。"],["洪委員孟楷：不要再讓國人看到，怎麼會到最後我們的辦法是把牠油炸吃掉，我想這就本末倒置了，好不好？"],["陳代理部長駿季：不會，這個不可取啦！"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝部長。"],["陳代理部長駿季：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來我們請陳亭妃委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-12","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","張嘉郡","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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422.763, \"end\": 422.783, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 444.155, \"end\": 444.175, \"text\": \"案。」\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 444.155, \"end\": 444.175, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"」\"}]}, {\"start\": 459.292, \"end\": 475.882, \"text\": \"一個月之內我們一定會跟第一個我會先跟交通部的觀光局那邊去做因為那個跟交通有關的齁完了以後才會召集主要的如果是都會區的話就是以交通部觀光局為主他絕對不是只是叫民眾\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 459.292, \"end\": 459.512, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 459.512, \"end\": 459.692, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 459.692, \"end\": 459.993, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 459.993, \"end\": 460.273, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 460.273, \"end\": 460.433, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 460.433, \"end\": 460.973, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 460.973, \"end\": 461.754, \"score\": 0.998}, 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526.29, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 526.29, \"end\": 526.451, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 526.451, \"end\": 527.051, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"荔\", \"start\": 527.051, \"end\": 527.191, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"枝\", \"start\": 527.191, \"end\": 527.332, \"score\": 0.693}, {\"word\": \"村\", \"start\": 527.332, \"end\": 527.472, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 527.472, \"end\": 527.632, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 527.632, \"end\": 527.872, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 527.872, \"end\": 527.952, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 527.952, \"end\": 528.112, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"怕\", \"start\": 528.112, \"end\": 528.293, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 528.293, \"end\": 528.413, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 528.413, \"end\": 528.613, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 528.613, \"end\": 528.733, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 528.733, \"end\": 528.913, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 528.913, \"end\": 529.013, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 529.013, \"end\": 529.814, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"蟲\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 529.814, \"end\": 530.014, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 530.014, \"end\": 530.375, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 530.375, \"end\": 530.515, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 530.515, \"end\": 530.655, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 530.655, \"end\": 531.136, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 531.136, \"end\": 531.296, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 531.296, \"end\": 531.496, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 531.496, \"end\": 531.596, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 531.596, \"end\": 531.716, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 531.716, \"end\": 531.916, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 531.916, \"end\": 532.197, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 532.197, \"end\": 532.397, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 532.397, \"end\": 532.557, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 532.557, \"end\": 532.757, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 532.757, \"end\": 533.218, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 533.218, \"end\": 533.358, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 533.358, \"end\": 533.658, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 533.658, \"end\": 533.819, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"衡\", \"start\": 533.819, \"end\": 534.419, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 534.419, \"end\": 534.519, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 534.519, \"end\": 534.679, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 534.679, \"end\": 535.24, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 535.24, \"end\": 535.38, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 535.38, \"end\": 535.52, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 535.52, \"end\": 535.841, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"疑\", \"start\": 535.841, \"end\": 536.201, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 536.201, \"end\": 536.421, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 536.421, \"end\": 536.441, \"score\": 0.534}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 537.142, \"end\": 537.162, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,461 --> 00:00:36,659\n主席謝謝麻煩請農業部長我們再請陳部長部長部長上午我知道幾位委員也都有針對這個荔枝春相的議題來跟你就教是你也講到說要深刻檢討是但我真的很懷疑農業部這已經不是第一次發生創意食材的爭議\n\n2\n00:00:38,311 --> 00:00:38,792\n一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具\n\n3\n00:00:55,310 --> 00:01:09,935\n我當然也說實在話啦我覺得公務員有創意其實本席開周明義長公務員有創意我覺得孟承祐上不是壞事為什麼因為我們要鼓勵大家要做事過去的文化是說多做多錯少做少錯啊不做不錯\n\n4\n00:01:10,695 --> 00:01:31,476\n所以我乾脆我就不要去做我就沒有錯不會被變成新聞焦點當然今天的一個爭議是在於是說明明不是一個可食用的食材你變成是一個食用那引發爭議跟衛福部這邊所以未來如果說要推廣任何的一個活動有可能跨部會要先做討論這點你同意嗎我跟委員說明齁\n\n5\n00:01:32,757 --> 00:01:52,553\n就是以現在目前的研究單位他們在開發相關的食材他們會搜尋對現在目前衛福部是不是可用食材但是國外已經開始是一個可用食材所以他們覺得說有機會在國內變成可用食材他們就開始研發了所以現在是要\n\n6\n00:01:53,780 --> 00:01:55,722\n修正草案：立法院第11屆第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第十五條條文\n\n7\n00:02:15,041 --> 00:02:42,059\n我們大概半年會有一個把我們開發的這些相關的可能的項目目前沒有列到可用食材的話我們會提給他然後看他們的意見然後開始我們會準備相關的資料因為有些資料需要獨立試驗我們就會去啟動這方面的研究所以部長講到一個新點喔所以你是接下來要請衛福部認定荔枝村巷它是可用食材沒有這個要看\n\n8\n00:02:42,819 --> 00:02:59,325\n本身的可用食材是可被消費者接受的,這個接受不是口味的接受,還有觀念的接受。觀感的接受,還有這個大家的飲食文化的接受。對,這個非常重要,如果不符合我們的飲食的話,我們絕對不能推。是嗎?\n\n9\n00:03:00,926 --> 00:03:27,628\n議員,所以你講了半天,我們現在就事論事。就是說荔枝村下這個議題就是說在於是推廣這個活動之前沒有找衛福部溝通嘛。所以造成說我們貿然推出來之後大家一邊滑爛,怎麼會?你如果說是一般夜市,它可能會有觸法的問題。但一般的民眾它不會去販賣這個,而且販賣它可能會違反這個食安法嘛。可是我們公部門帶頭作業一定是符合相關法規嘛。\n\n10\n00:03:28,248 --> 00:03:48,457\n那結果沒有符合相關法規這一個部長我其實要問的其實是後面更重要的問題為什麼要去推廣油炸荔枝春夏是不是因為荔枝春夏它就是某種程度上有危害到我們現在的一個環境跟生活我跟委員說明在實際的狀況是它是在一個環境教育的課程\n\n11\n00:03:49,097 --> 00:04:05,079\n那因為環境教育的課程他只是去展示可能在其他的國家是可以用的他只是在那邊去做一個示範並沒有說去做到推廣的這個動作部長但是我們現在在講的是荔枝村上他是近年來新興的入侵外來走\n\n12\n00:04:05,860 --> 00:04:27,985\n然後他也對於中南部來說對於荔枝或是龍眼都造成嚴重的危害甚至本席的選區淡水地區也有民眾講說他現在不是在果樹上發現他是在一般的田間一般的民間走路散步的時候發現無患者的樹枝上面就會有三到五枝的荔枝春夏\n\n13\n00:04:29,825 --> 00:04:31,506\n一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文\n\n14\n00:04:59,864 --> 00:05:23,583\n除了用農藥除了用其他的這個生態平衡來講有沒有其他可能可以抑制這個外來種害蟲的一個方式那我現在要問的其實比較更直接就是說那對於荔枝春象在各縣市越來越多了那造成我們民眾的一個生活或說有疑慮也有講到荔枝春象他的毒液他的這個汁液會有毒會造成皮膚的潰爛\n\n15\n00:05:24,784 --> 00:05:50,852\n那我們現在有沒有中央明確的規定跟方式?我跟委員報告齁,就是立法院的房子現在最大的盲點就是他並沒有啟動區域的房子,而是個別的房子。那這個區域的房子不只是在農業區喔,農業區要有區域房子,現在有很多休閒的步道有沒有,也會發生到旁邊的樹木會掉到一些那個,所以我一直認為,就是其實我幾年前就開始一直在\n\n16\n00:05:51,553 --> 00:06:06,813\n在台中市在農事所的時候我就一直推他的共同防治除了農業部門也要跟交通部門對一起來做共同的防治這樣的話才能夠把那個密度往下降沒錯這個是我想後續我們也會繼續努力的是\n\n17\n00:06:07,213 --> 00:06:35,961\n所以現在才講啊因為各縣市政府他可能也有這個局處之間的一個協調是不是只是農業局的問題嗎他可能觀光局、交通局等相關的局處那但是對於上位等於中央主管機關我們農業部怎麼樣可以給各縣市政府有一個清楚明白的指引讓各縣市政府能夠跨局處來去做一個統一這個農業部是不是應該要動作我覺得有一部分是農業部的責任我們應該把這些防範的指引要寫清楚\n\n18\n00:06:36,661 --> 00:07:00,501\n然後因為跨部門的跨局處跨局處的部分可能會依據不同的地方政府的局處之間的的一個溝通平台是那我想我們農業部應該會跟主要的縣市去討論一個現在比較氾濫的荔枝村鄉哪幾個縣市除了江南部新北市算不算高平嘉南以外那新北市還有中張頭這邊都有其實\n\n19\n00:07:02,643 --> 00:07:02,783\n答案。\n\n20\n00:07:24,155 --> 00:07:24,175\n案。」\n\n21\n00:07:39,292 --> 00:07:55,882\n一個月之內我們一定會跟第一個我會先跟交通部的觀光局那邊去做因為那個跟交通有關的齁完了以後才會召集主要的如果是都會區的話就是以交通部觀光局為主他絕對不是只是叫民眾\n\n22\n00:07:57,043 --> 00:07:59,166\n事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12條及第十五條條文\n\n23\n00:08:12,867 --> 00:08:14,268\n事由：審查：事由：審查：\n\n24\n00:08:34,958 --> 00:08:56,441\n反濫的這些縣市來去做一個討論該專業的投藥還是專業的驅蟲還是用生態平衡方式也有人講是說有其他的一物剋一物嘛荔枝村上他們可能怕的是其他的一個蟲那怎麼樣能夠用生物防治的部分生物防治來達到生態平衡這一些要請農業部定出質疑一個月內\n\n25\n00:08:57,142 --> 00:08:57,162\n案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10461\t36659\t主席謝謝麻煩請農業部長我們再請陳部長部長部長上午我知道幾位委員也都有針對這個荔枝春相的議題來跟你就教是你也講到說要深刻檢討是但我真的很懷疑農業部這已經不是第一次發生創意食材的爭議\n38311\t38792\t一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具\n55310\t69935\t我當然也說實在話啦我覺得公務員有創意其實本席開周明義長公務員有創意我覺得孟承祐上不是壞事為什麼因為我們要鼓勵大家要做事過去的文化是說多做多錯少做少錯啊不做不錯\n70695\t91476\t所以我乾脆我就不要去做我就沒有錯不會被變成新聞焦點當然今天的一個爭議是在於是說明明不是一個可食用的食材你變成是一個食用那引發爭議跟衛福部這邊所以未來如果說要推廣任何的一個活動有可能跨部會要先做討論這點你同意嗎我跟委員說明齁\n92757\t112553\t就是以現在目前的研究單位他們在開發相關的食材他們會搜尋對現在目前衛福部是不是可用食材但是國外已經開始是一個可用食材所以他們覺得說有機會在國內變成可用食材他們就開始研發了所以現在是要\n113780\t115722\t修正草案：立法院第11屆第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第十五條條文\n135041\t162059\t我們大概半年會有一個把我們開發的這些相關的可能的項目目前沒有列到可用食材的話我們會提給他然後看他們的意見然後開始我們會準備相關的資料因為有些資料需要獨立試驗我們就會去啟動這方面的研究所以部長講到一個新點喔所以你是接下來要請衛福部認定荔枝村巷它是可用食材沒有 這個要看\n162819\t179325\t本身的可用食材是可被消費者接受的,這個接受不是口味的接受,還有觀念的接受。觀感的接受,還有這個大家的飲食文化的接受。對,這個非常重要,如果不符合我們的飲食的話,我們絕對不能推。是嗎?\n180926\t207628\t議員,所以你講了半天,我們現在就事論事。就是說荔枝村下這個議題就是說在於是推廣這個活動之前沒有找衛福部溝通嘛。所以造成說我們貿然推出來之後大家一邊滑爛,怎麼會?你如果說是一般夜市,它可能會有觸法的問題。但一般的民眾它不會去販賣這個,而且販賣它可能會違反這個食安法嘛。可是我們公部門帶頭作業一定是符合相關法規嘛。\n208248\t228457\t那結果沒有符合相關法規這一個部長我其實要問的其實是後面更重要的問題為什麼要去推廣油炸荔枝春夏是不是因為荔枝春夏它就是某種程度上有危害到我們現在的一個環境跟生活我跟委員說明在實際的狀況是它是在一個環境教育的課程\n229097\t245079\t那因為環境教育的課程他只是去展示可能在其他的國家是可以用的他只是在那邊去做一個示範並沒有說去做到推廣的這個動作部長但是我們現在在講的是荔枝村上他是近年來新興的入侵外來走\n245860\t267985\t然後他也對於中南部來說對於荔枝或是龍眼都造成嚴重的危害甚至本席的選區淡水地區也有民眾講說他現在不是在果樹上發現他是在一般的田間一般的民間走路散步的時候發現無患者的樹枝上面就會有三到五枝的荔枝春夏\n269825\t271506\t一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文\n299864\t323583\t除了用農藥除了用其他的這個生態平衡來講有沒有其他可能可以抑制這個外來種害蟲的一個方式那我現在要問的其實比較更直接就是說那對於荔枝春象在各縣市越來越多了那造成我們民眾的一個生活或說有疑慮也有講到荔枝春象他的毒液他的這個汁液會有毒會造成皮膚的潰爛\n324784\t350852\t那我們現在有沒有中央明確的規定跟方式?我跟委員報告齁,就是立法院的房子現在最大的盲點就是他並沒有啟動區域的房子,而是個別的房子。那這個區域的房子不只是在農業區喔,農業區要有區域房子,現在有很多休閒的步道有沒有,也會發生到旁邊的樹木會掉到一些那個,所以我一直認為,就是其實我幾年前就開始一直在\n351553\t366813\t在台中市在農事所的時候我就一直推他的共同防治除了農業部門也要跟交通部門對一起來做共同的防治這樣的話才能夠把那個密度往下降沒錯這個是我想後續我們也會繼續努力的是\n367213\t395961\t所以現在才講啊因為各縣市政府他可能也有這個局處之間的一個協調是不是只是農業局的問題嗎他可能觀光局、交通局等相關的局處那但是對於上位等於中央主管機關我們農業部怎麼樣可以給各縣市政府有一個清楚明白的指引讓各縣市政府能夠跨局處來去做一個統一這個農業部是不是應該要動作我覺得有一部分是農業部的責任我們應該把這些防範的指引要寫清楚\n396661\t420501\t然後因為跨部門的跨局處跨局處的部分可能會依據不同的地方政府的局處之間的的一個溝通平台是那我想我們農業部應該會跟主要的縣市去討論一個現在比較氾濫的荔枝村鄉哪幾個縣市除了江南部新北市算不算高平嘉南以外那新北市還有中張頭這邊都有其實\n422643\t422783\t答案。\n444155\t444175\t案。」\n459292\t475882\t一個月之內我們一定會跟第一個我會先跟交通部的觀光局那邊去做因為那個跟交通有關的齁完了以後才會召集主要的如果是都會區的話就是以交通部觀光局為主他絕對不是只是叫民眾\n477043\t479166\t事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12條及第十五條條文\n492867\t494268\t事由：審查：事由：審查：\n514958\t536441\t反濫的這些縣市來去做一個討論該專業的投藥還是專業的驅蟲還是用生態平衡方式也有人講是說有其他的一物剋一物嘛荔枝村上他們可能怕的是其他的一個蟲那怎麼樣能夠用生物防治的部分生物防治來達到生態平衡這一些要請農業部定出質疑一個月內\n537142\t537162\t案 。\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請農業部長我們再請陳部長部長部長上午我知道幾位委員也都有針對這個荔枝春相的議題來跟你就教是你也講到說要深刻檢討是但我真的很懷疑農業部這已經不是第一次發生創意食材的爭議\n一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具\n我當然也說實在話啦我覺得公務員有創意其實本席開周明義長公務員有創意我覺得孟承祐上不是壞事為什麼因為我們要鼓勵大家要做事過去的文化是說多做多錯少做少錯啊不做不錯\n所以我乾脆我就不要去做我就沒有錯不會被變成新聞焦點當然今天的一個爭議是在於是說明明不是一個可食用的食材你變成是一個食用那引發爭議跟衛福部這邊所以未來如果說要推廣任何的一個活動有可能跨部會要先做討論這點你同意嗎我跟委員說明齁\n就是以現在目前的研究單位他們在開發相關的食材他們會搜尋對現在目前衛福部是不是可用食材但是國外已經開始是一個可用食材所以他們覺得說有機會在國內變成可用食材他們就開始研發了所以現在是要\n修正草案：立法院第11屆第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第十五條條文\n我們大概半年會有一個把我們開發的這些相關的可能的項目目前沒有列到可用食材的話我們會提給他然後看他們的意見然後開始我們會準備相關的資料因為有些資料需要獨立試驗我們就會去啟動這方面的研究所以部長講到一個新點喔所以你是接下來要請衛福部認定荔枝村巷它是可用食材沒有 這個要看\n本身的可用食材是可被消費者接受的,這個接受不是口味的接受,還有觀念的接受。觀感的接受,還有這個大家的飲食文化的接受。對,這個非常重要,如果不符合我們的飲食的話,我們絕對不能推。是嗎?\n議員,所以你講了半天,我們現在就事論事。就是說荔枝村下這個議題就是說在於是推廣這個活動之前沒有找衛福部溝通嘛。所以造成說我們貿然推出來之後大家一邊滑爛,怎麼會?你如果說是一般夜市,它可能會有觸法的問題。但一般的民眾它不會去販賣這個,而且販賣它可能會違反這個食安法嘛。可是我們公部門帶頭作業一定是符合相關法規嘛。\n那結果沒有符合相關法規這一個部長我其實要問的其實是後面更重要的問題為什麼要去推廣油炸荔枝春夏是不是因為荔枝春夏它就是某種程度上有危害到我們現在的一個環境跟生活我跟委員說明在實際的狀況是它是在一個環境教育的課程\n那因為環境教育的課程他只是去展示可能在其他的國家是可以用的他只是在那邊去做一個示範並沒有說去做到推廣的這個動作部長但是我們現在在講的是荔枝村上他是近年來新興的入侵外來走\n然後他也對於中南部來說對於荔枝或是龍眼都造成嚴重的危害甚至本席的選區淡水地區也有民眾講說他現在不是在果樹上發現他是在一般的田間一般的民間走路散步的時候發現無患者的樹枝上面就會有三到五枝的荔枝春夏\n一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文\n除了用農藥除了用其他的這個生態平衡來講有沒有其他可能可以抑制這個外來種害蟲的一個方式那我現在要問的其實比較更直接就是說那對於荔枝春象在各縣市越來越多了那造成我們民眾的一個生活或說有疑慮也有講到荔枝春象他的毒液他的這個汁液會有毒會造成皮膚的潰爛\n那我們現在有沒有中央明確的規定跟方式?我跟委員報告齁,就是立法院的房子現在最大的盲點就是他並沒有啟動區域的房子,而是個別的房子。那這個區域的房子不只是在農業區喔,農業區要有區域房子,現在有很多休閒的步道有沒有,也會發生到旁邊的樹木會掉到一些那個,所以我一直認為,就是其實我幾年前就開始一直在\n在台中市在農事所的時候我就一直推他的共同防治除了農業部門也要跟交通部門對一起來做共同的防治這樣的話才能夠把那個密度往下降沒錯這個是我想後續我們也會繼續努力的是\n所以現在才講啊因為各縣市政府他可能也有這個局處之間的一個協調是不是只是農業局的問題嗎他可能觀光局、交通局等相關的局處那但是對於上位等於中央主管機關我們農業部怎麼樣可以給各縣市政府有一個清楚明白的指引讓各縣市政府能夠跨局處來去做一個統一這個農業部是不是應該要動作我覺得有一部分是農業部的責任我們應該把這些防範的指引要寫清楚\n然後因為跨部門的跨局處跨局處的部分可能會依據不同的地方政府的局處之間的的一個溝通平台是那我想我們農業部應該會跟主要的縣市去討論一個現在比較氾濫的荔枝村鄉哪幾個縣市除了江南部新北市算不算高平嘉南以外那新北市還有中張頭這邊都有其實\n答案。\n案。」\n一個月之內我們一定會跟第一個我會先跟交通部的觀光局那邊去做因為那個跟交通有關的齁完了以後才會召集主要的如果是都會區的話就是以交通部觀光局為主他絕對不是只是叫民眾\n事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12條及第十五條條文\n事由：審查：事由：審查：\n反濫的這些縣市來去做一個討論該專業的投藥還是專業的驅蟲還是用生態平衡方式也有人講是說有其他的一物剋一物嘛荔枝村上他們可能怕的是其他的一個蟲那怎麼樣能夠用生物防治的部分生物防治來達到生態平衡這一些要請農業部定出質疑一個月內\n案 。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.461 --> 00:36.659\n主席謝謝麻煩請農業部長我們再請陳部長部長部長上午我知道幾位委員也都有針對這個荔枝春相的議題來跟你就教是你也講到說要深刻檢討是但我真的很懷疑農業部這已經不是第一次發生創意食材的爭議\n\n00:38.311 --> 00:38.792\n一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具\n\n00:55.310 --> 01:09.935\n我當然也說實在話啦我覺得公務員有創意其實本席開周明義長公務員有創意我覺得孟承祐上不是壞事為什麼因為我們要鼓勵大家要做事過去的文化是說多做多錯少做少錯啊不做不錯\n\n01:10.695 --> 01:31.476\n所以我乾脆我就不要去做我就沒有錯不會被變成新聞焦點當然今天的一個爭議是在於是說明明不是一個可食用的食材你變成是一個食用那引發爭議跟衛福部這邊所以未來如果說要推廣任何的一個活動有可能跨部會要先做討論這點你同意嗎我跟委員說明齁\n\n01:32.757 --> 01:52.553\n就是以現在目前的研究單位他們在開發相關的食材他們會搜尋對現在目前衛福部是不是可用食材但是國外已經開始是一個可用食材所以他們覺得說有機會在國內變成可用食材他們就開始研發了所以現在是要\n\n01:53.780 --> 01:55.722\n修正草案：立法院第11屆第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第十五條條文\n\n02:15.041 --> 02:42.059\n我們大概半年會有一個把我們開發的這些相關的可能的項目目前沒有列到可用食材的話我們會提給他然後看他們的意見然後開始我們會準備相關的資料因為有些資料需要獨立試驗我們就會去啟動這方面的研究所以部長講到一個新點喔所以你是接下來要請衛福部認定荔枝村巷它是可用食材沒有這個要看\n\n02:42.819 --> 02:59.325\n本身的可用食材是可被消費者接受的,這個接受不是口味的接受,還有觀念的接受。觀感的接受,還有這個大家的飲食文化的接受。對,這個非常重要,如果不符合我們的飲食的話,我們絕對不能推。是嗎?\n\n03:00.926 --> 03:27.628\n議員,所以你講了半天,我們現在就事論事。就是說荔枝村下這個議題就是說在於是推廣這個活動之前沒有找衛福部溝通嘛。所以造成說我們貿然推出來之後大家一邊滑爛,怎麼會?你如果說是一般夜市,它可能會有觸法的問題。但一般的民眾它不會去販賣這個,而且販賣它可能會違反這個食安法嘛。可是我們公部門帶頭作業一定是符合相關法規嘛。\n\n03:28.248 --> 03:48.457\n那結果沒有符合相關法規這一個部長我其實要問的其實是後面更重要的問題為什麼要去推廣油炸荔枝春夏是不是因為荔枝春夏它就是某種程度上有危害到我們現在的一個環境跟生活我跟委員說明在實際的狀況是它是在一個環境教育的課程\n\n03:49.097 --> 04:05.079\n那因為環境教育的課程他只是去展示可能在其他的國家是可以用的他只是在那邊去做一個示範並沒有說去做到推廣的這個動作部長但是我們現在在講的是荔枝村上他是近年來新興的入侵外來走\n\n04:05.860 --> 04:27.985\n然後他也對於中南部來說對於荔枝或是龍眼都造成嚴重的危害甚至本席的選區淡水地區也有民眾講說他現在不是在果樹上發現他是在一般的田間一般的民間走路散步的時候發現無患者的樹枝上面就會有三到五枝的荔枝春夏\n\n04:29.825 --> 04:31.506\n一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文\n\n04:59.864 --> 05:23.583\n除了用農藥除了用其他的這個生態平衡來講有沒有其他可能可以抑制這個外來種害蟲的一個方式那我現在要問的其實比較更直接就是說那對於荔枝春象在各縣市越來越多了那造成我們民眾的一個生活或說有疑慮也有講到荔枝春象他的毒液他的這個汁液會有毒會造成皮膚的潰爛\n\n05:24.784 --> 05:50.852\n那我們現在有沒有中央明確的規定跟方式?我跟委員報告齁,就是立法院的房子現在最大的盲點就是他並沒有啟動區域的房子,而是個別的房子。那這個區域的房子不只是在農業區喔,農業區要有區域房子,現在有很多休閒的步道有沒有,也會發生到旁邊的樹木會掉到一些那個,所以我一直認為,就是其實我幾年前就開始一直在\n\n05:51.553 --> 06:06.813\n在台中市在農事所的時候我就一直推他的共同防治除了農業部門也要跟交通部門對一起來做共同的防治這樣的話才能夠把那個密度往下降沒錯這個是我想後續我們也會繼續努力的是\n\n06:07.213 --> 06:35.961\n所以現在才講啊因為各縣市政府他可能也有這個局處之間的一個協調是不是只是農業局的問題嗎他可能觀光局、交通局等相關的局處那但是對於上位等於中央主管機關我們農業部怎麼樣可以給各縣市政府有一個清楚明白的指引讓各縣市政府能夠跨局處來去做一個統一這個農業部是不是應該要動作我覺得有一部分是農業部的責任我們應該把這些防範的指引要寫清楚\n\n06:36.661 --> 07:00.501\n然後因為跨部門的跨局處跨局處的部分可能會依據不同的地方政府的局處之間的的一個溝通平台是那我想我們農業部應該會跟主要的縣市去討論一個現在比較氾濫的荔枝村鄉哪幾個縣市除了江南部新北市算不算高平嘉南以外那新北市還有中張頭這邊都有其實\n\n07:02.643 --> 07:02.783\n答案。\n\n07:24.155 --> 07:24.175\n案。」\n\n07:39.292 --> 07:55.882\n一個月之內我們一定會跟第一個我會先跟交通部的觀光局那邊去做因為那個跟交通有關的齁完了以後才會召集主要的如果是都會區的話就是以交通部觀光局為主他絕對不是只是叫民眾\n\n07:57.043 --> 07:59.166\n事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12條及第十五條條文\n\n08:12.867 --> 08:14.268\n事由：審查：事由：審查：\n\n08:34.958 --> 08:56.441\n反濫的這些縣市來去做一個討論該專業的投藥還是專業的驅蟲還是用生態平衡方式也有人講是說有其他的一物剋一物嘛荔枝村上他們可能怕的是其他的一個蟲那怎麼樣能夠用生物防治的部分生物防治來達到生態平衡這一些要請農業部定出質疑一個月內\n\n08:57.142 --> 08:57.162\n案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.461,"end":36.659,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請農業部長我們再請陳部長部長部長上午我知道幾位委員也都有針對這個荔枝春相的議題來跟你就教是你也講到說要深刻檢討是但我真的很懷疑農業部這已經不是第一次發生創意食材的爭議"},{"start":38.311,"end":38.792,"text":"一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具"},{"start":55.31,"end":69.935,"text":"我當然也說實在話啦我覺得公務員有創意其實本席開周明義長公務員有創意我覺得孟承祐上不是壞事為什麼因為我們要鼓勵大家要做事過去的文化是說多做多錯少做少錯啊不做不錯"},{"start":70.695,"end":91.476,"text":"所以我乾脆我就不要去做我就沒有錯不會被變成新聞焦點當然今天的一個爭議是在於是說明明不是一個可食用的食材你變成是一個食用那引發爭議跟衛福部這邊所以未來如果說要推廣任何的一個活動有可能跨部會要先做討論這點你同意嗎我跟委員說明齁"},{"start":92.757,"end":112.553,"text":"就是以現在目前的研究單位他們在開發相關的食材他們會搜尋對現在目前衛福部是不是可用食材但是國外已經開始是一個可用食材所以他們覺得說有機會在國內變成可用食材他們就開始研發了所以現在是要"},{"start":113.78,"end":115.722,"text":"修正草案：立法院第11屆第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第十五條條文"},{"start":135.041,"end":162.059,"text":"我們大概半年會有一個把我們開發的這些相關的可能的項目目前沒有列到可用食材的話我們會提給他然後看他們的意見然後開始我們會準備相關的資料因為有些資料需要獨立試驗我們就會去啟動這方面的研究所以部長講到一個新點喔所以你是接下來要請衛福部認定荔枝村巷它是可用食材沒有 這個要看"},{"start":162.819,"end":179.325,"text":"本身的可用食材是可被消費者接受的,這個接受不是口味的接受,還有觀念的接受。觀感的接受,還有這個大家的飲食文化的接受。對,這個非常重要,如果不符合我們的飲食的話,我們絕對不能推。是嗎?"},{"start":180.926,"end":207.628,"text":"議員,所以你講了半天,我們現在就事論事。就是說荔枝村下這個議題就是說在於是推廣這個活動之前沒有找衛福部溝通嘛。所以造成說我們貿然推出來之後大家一邊滑爛,怎麼會?你如果說是一般夜市,它可能會有觸法的問題。但一般的民眾它不會去販賣這個,而且販賣它可能會違反這個食安法嘛。可是我們公部門帶頭作業一定是符合相關法規嘛。"},{"start":208.248,"end":228.457,"text":"那結果沒有符合相關法規這一個部長我其實要問的其實是後面更重要的問題為什麼要去推廣油炸荔枝春夏是不是因為荔枝春夏它就是某種程度上有危害到我們現在的一個環境跟生活我跟委員說明在實際的狀況是它是在一個環境教育的課程"},{"start":229.097,"end":245.079,"text":"那因為環境教育的課程他只是去展示可能在其他的國家是可以用的他只是在那邊去做一個示範並沒有說去做到推廣的這個動作部長但是我們現在在講的是荔枝村上他是近年來新興的入侵外來走"},{"start":245.86,"end":267.985,"text":"然後他也對於中南部來說對於荔枝或是龍眼都造成嚴重的危害甚至本席的選區淡水地區也有民眾講說他現在不是在果樹上發現他是在一般的田間一般的民間走路散步的時候發現無患者的樹枝上面就會有三到五枝的荔枝春夏"},{"start":269.825,"end":271.506,"text":"一、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具:「農村再生條例第十五條條文"},{"start":299.864,"end":323.583,"text":"除了用農藥除了用其他的這個生態平衡來講有沒有其他可能可以抑制這個外來種害蟲的一個方式那我現在要問的其實比較更直接就是說那對於荔枝春象在各縣市越來越多了那造成我們民眾的一個生活或說有疑慮也有講到荔枝春象他的毒液他的這個汁液會有毒會造成皮膚的潰爛"},{"start":324.784,"end":350.852,"text":"那我們現在有沒有中央明確的規定跟方式?我跟委員報告齁,就是立法院的房子現在最大的盲點就是他並沒有啟動區域的房子,而是個別的房子。那這個區域的房子不只是在農業區喔,農業區要有區域房子,現在有很多休閒的步道有沒有,也會發生到旁邊的樹木會掉到一些那個,所以我一直認為,就是其實我幾年前就開始一直在"},{"start":351.553,"end":366.813,"text":"在台中市在農事所的時候我就一直推他的共同防治除了農業部門也要跟交通部門對一起來做共同的防治這樣的話才能夠把那個密度往下降沒錯這個是我想後續我們也會繼續努力的是"},{"start":367.213,"end":395.961,"text":"所以現在才講啊因為各縣市政府他可能也有這個局處之間的一個協調是不是只是農業局的問題嗎他可能觀光局、交通局等相關的局處那但是對於上位等於中央主管機關我們農業部怎麼樣可以給各縣市政府有一個清楚明白的指引讓各縣市政府能夠跨局處來去做一個統一這個農業部是不是應該要動作我覺得有一部分是農業部的責任我們應該把這些防範的指引要寫清楚"},{"start":396.661,"end":420.501,"text":"然後因為跨部門的跨局處跨局處的部分可能會依據不同的地方政府的局處之間的的一個溝通平台是那我想我們農業部應該會跟主要的縣市去討論一個現在比較氾濫的荔枝村鄉哪幾個縣市除了江南部新北市算不算高平嘉南以外那新北市還有中張頭這邊都有其實"},{"start":422.643,"end":422.783,"text":"答案。"},{"start":444.155,"end":444.175,"text":"案。」"},{"start":459.292,"end":475.882,"text":"一個月之內我們一定會跟第一個我會先跟交通部的觀光局那邊去做因為那個跟交通有關的齁完了以後才會召集主要的如果是都會區的話就是以交通部觀光局為主他絕對不是只是叫民眾"},{"start":477.043,"end":479.166,"text":"事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12條及第十五條條文"},{"start":492.867,"end":494.268,"text":"事由：審查：事由：審查："},{"start":514.958,"end":536.441,"text":"反濫的這些縣市來去做一個討論該專業的投藥還是專業的驅蟲還是用生態平衡方式也有人講是說有其他的一物剋一物嘛荔枝村上他們可能怕的是其他的一個蟲那怎麼樣能夠用生物防治的部分生物防治來達到生態平衡這一些要請農業部定出質疑一個月內"},{"start":537.142,"end":537.162,"text":"案 。"}]}}}}