{"id":152533,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152533","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7786a6f84a6532c0d9153ecbfbe38421881f4f1090bc66a5abc25b9e10ac7e4532346238ad03635c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"12:04:20 - 12:10:31","影片長度":"00:06:11","會議時間":"2024-05-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員張嘉郡等19人擬具「農村再生條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員邱議瑩等17人擬具「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【5月15日及16日兩天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-15","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-12"},"duration":371,"end_time":"2024-05-15T12:10:31+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-15T12:04:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1078,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（12時4分）謝謝主席，麻煩請部長。"],["主席：我們再請陳部長。"],["陳代理部長駿季：委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長好，我們今天來談一下農村再生基金總額提高的部分，依照財政紀律法的規定，法律案如果要增加政府的歲出，我們要具體指明彌補資金的來源，我來自農業縣，所以我很認同農村再生基金必須要提高，因為我們大家都知道許多農村房舍老舊需要翻新，整個狀況是迫在眉睫的，根據今天的報告，農村再生基金的餘額是497億元，所以立法院的同仁們，不管是藍綠、朝野，都認為這個金額不足以用來翻新、重建老舊的農村，所以我們才會提案要修法，有些委員主張法定基金從1,500億提高到3,600億，有些委員主張到4,500億，不管是3,600億或者4,500億，我都覺得對農村的幫助是非常大的。","我想要請教，如果我們先從最基礎的提高到3,600億，這跟法定的1,500億元，大概有相差兩千多億，如果分20年編列預算的話，每年大概是增加105億元的概念，這個財源農業部找不到嗎？做不到嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：關於委員版本所提到的，其實我也非常謝謝委員，就是擔心農村再生在推動的時候，經費會沒辦法持續，然後設計了這樣一個版本，如果是用這樣的方式，因為委員的版本裡面有明確的金額，這個部分就會違反相關的財政紀律法，以農業部的立場，我們沒辦法這樣處理。但是相對的，以農業部來講，我們每年大概是100億的額度在處理農村再生，未來如果經費不足的時候，從116年開始，我們可以用4年的中長程計畫去報院，如果經報院同意，照樣可以放在基金裡面，由國庫去撥補，只是剛才委員也提到，這樣子會有一些不確定性，就是行政院萬一不同意的時候，可能後面的經費就會不夠，但是農村再生大家都覺得它是一個很好的事情，我相信行政院應該也可以接受，而且我們會用最大的力量去爭取行政院的經費。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，我剛才提到編列20年，或者是3,600億或4,500億的時候，我們有特別針對剛剛提到的財政紀律法，就是要增加政府預算，所以我們是請農業部去找預算，我們剛才也替農業部來想，如果如你說的以中長程計畫來長期編列預算的話，你要想的是，每年增加105億的這個財源，我們就先想好，就講4年好了，你剛剛說中長程計畫報院的話，你覺得這個可能性是做得到的嗎？因為農業部的工作就是發展農業、建設農業跟照顧農村，但是除了這個部分之外、預算的編列之外，還有相關的法條，就是很多農村共有的土地，他的老舊房屋問題是必須要修改的，所以必須要包括進來，我們一起來整體思考，就是農村再生條例本身也要一起來思考，不只是預算的部分，還有法條的部分，兩個都要共同思考進去。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：比方說我們立法委員提出了3,600億、4,500億等等不同金額的時候，則我們提出來的原因，跟它的背景、立場，我們要先想清楚，才能好去執行。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是，瞭解。"],["陳委員冠廷：我們現在講行政、立法的分際，沒關係，我們就講行政院，你剛剛提到財政紀律，這105億是做不到的嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我個人覺得，我們如果把計畫書、相關的成果跟我們要做的提到行政院，應該可以得到行政院的支持，行政院支持完了以後，主計總處就會去找相關的財源來核撥給我們，現在大概是這樣的流程。"],["陳委員冠廷：我們所有朝野立法委員提出這樣的法案，大概的背景、理由、源頭……"],["陳代理部長駿季：我知道、我瞭解，我想委員都非常支持經費要有持續性，這個我瞭解，謝謝。"],["陳委員冠廷：對，那就再拜託、再麻煩我們所有與會的，包括過去的農委會，我們所有的官員要一起來想想看，包含我們剛剛講到法條的部分，法制上面來講，有些就是已經過時了，有些是因為財產產權的問題，所以這個必須由農業部全面來思考一下，怎麼樣來解決這個問題，不然我看到很多都是直接荒廢在那邊，10年前是這樣，5年前是這樣，今年去還是這樣，我不希望未來的5年、10年都還是一樣。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員說明，像農村社區，的確有一些會有比較多的產權人，然後還有一些糾紛的部分，後續我們會針對農村整個空間的規劃去做一個適度的界定，包括一些土地的界定跟農地的界定，這個部分我想不一定要全部納在法的條文裡面，在後面執行的細節，我們可以做相關的一些處理。"],["陳委員冠廷：如果可以不動到法就能夠處理的話，當然是更好。"],["陳代理部長駿季：因為很多農村的地籍等等這些東西可能會牽涉到內政部，所以我們也會跟內政部去做共同的討論，還有一些產權的部分，最主要是我們農業部有一個農村的整體規劃的話，我們就可以說服內政部，所以相對的，我想農業部還是一個主責單位，我們會儘可能的去做這樣一個思考。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，再麻煩部長，這個部分很重要，因為一直閒置在那邊還是不好的，謝謝。"],["陳代理部長駿季：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。我們請鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱委員不在現場。","我們請游顥委員，請作詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-12","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","張嘉郡","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,083 --> 00:00:01,004\n請做巡檔主席,麻煩請部長我們再請陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:23,170 --> 00:00:37,974\n部長好,我們今天來談一下這個農村再生基金的總額提高的部分。那我想依照這個財政紀律法的規定,法律案如果要增加政府的稅出,我們要具體的指明彌補資金的來源。\n\n3\n00:00:41,796 --> 00:00:59,486\n我來自農業縣,所以我是很認同說農村再生基金是必須要提高的因為我們大家都知道說許多農村的這些房舍老舊需要翻新等等那整個狀況那是迫在眉睫的那我根據今天的報告農村再生基金的餘額是497億元\n\n4\n00:01:01,747 --> 00:01:24,318\n立法院的同仁們不管是藍綠草野都認為這個不足以用來翻新重建老舊的農村所以我們才會提案要修法那有些委員主張是從法定基金的1500億提高到3600億有些委員主張到4500億那不管是3600億或者是4500億我都覺得對農村的幫助是非常大的那我想要請教\n\n5\n00:01:25,882 --> 00:01:44,661\n如果說我們先從最基礎的提高到3600億跟法定的1500億元大概有相差2000多億如果分20年做編列預算的話那每年大概是增加105億元的概念這個財源農業部找不到嗎做不到嗎\n\n6\n00:01:47,179 --> 00:02:04,006\n我想委員版本所提到的其實我也非常謝謝委員就是擔心這個農村再生在推動的時候經會沒辦法持續啦然後有設計了這樣的一個版本以現在農業部如果說用這樣的方式因為委員的版本裡面有明確的\n\n7\n00:02:05,026 --> 00:02:05,686\n條例第十五條條例第十五條條例第十五條條例第十五條條例\n\n8\n00:02:34,497 --> 00:02:38,739\n我相信行政院應該也可以去接受而且我們會用最大的力量去爭取行政院的一個經費\n\n9\n00:02:54,744 --> 00:02:55,164\n一、本院委員\n\n10\n00:03:16,365 --> 00:03:38,019\n我想我們先想好嘛,我們就講四年就好了,你剛剛講說中長城抱怨的話,你就這個可能性不是做得到的嗎?因為農業部的工作就是發展農業、建設農業跟照顧農村,但是除了這個部分之外,預算的編列之外,還有這個法條,就是說很多農村共有的土地,它的老舊房屋問題,這必須要修改的嘛,所以\n\n11\n00:03:38,519 --> 00:03:54,448\n他必須要包括我們一起來思考整體就是說農村再生條例裡面本身也要來講因為不只是預算的部分法條的部分兩個都要共同進去思考我們不能夠我覺得我們的立法委員提出3600億、4500億或是等等不同的金額的時候\n\n12\n00:03:55,526 --> 00:04:10,364\n我們提出來的這個原因跟他這個背景的立場我們要先想清楚我們才會好去執行那既然是由行政院我們現在講行政、立法來分級沒關係我們就講行政院你剛剛提到說財政紀律那一百零五億這個是做不到的嗎?\n\n13\n00:04:12,694 --> 00:04:27,162\n我個人覺得就是說我們如果把這個計畫書的相關的成果跟我們要做的提到行政院應該可以得到行政院的支持那行政院支持完了以後主席總處那邊就會去找相關的財源來合撥給我們\n\n14\n00:04:28,203 --> 00:04:37,249\n那我想這也是我們所有草原的立法委員大概提出這樣的法案的背景跟理由。這個源頭很重要。那再麻煩我們這個所有的與會的這個過去的農委會我們的所有的官員要一起來想想看,包含我們剛剛講到的法條的部分\n\n15\n00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,082\n法治上來講有些已經過世有些是因為財產產權的問題必須由農業部\n\n16\n00:05:00,802 --> 00:05:25,081\n全面來去思考一下,怎麼樣來解決這個問題,不然我看到很多都是直接荒廢在那邊,十年前是這樣,五年前是這樣,今年去還是這樣,我不希望未來的五年十年還都一樣。我跟委員說明,像特別農村社區的確有一些產權,一些比較多的產權人,然後有一些糾紛的部分,後續我想我們會真的農村的整個空間的一個規劃去做適度的一個界定,包括一些土地的一個\n\n17\n00:05:25,902 --> 00:05:30,565\n修正草案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會\n\n18\n00:05:44,772 --> 00:06:07,664\n所以我們也會跟內政部去做共同的討論還有一些產權的部分還有一些最主要是我們農業部有一個農村的整體規劃的話我們就可以說服內政部啦所以相對的我想農業部還是一個組織單位我們會盡可能的去做這樣的一個思考好那再麻煩部長這個是很重要因為我看閒置在那邊還是不好的好謝謝謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n83\t1004\t請做巡檔主席,麻煩請部長我們再請陳部長\n23170\t37974\t部長好,我們今天來談一下這個農村再生基金的總額提高的部分。那我想依照這個財政紀律法的規定,法律案如果要增加政府的稅出,我們要具體的指明彌補資金的來源。\n41796\t59486\t我來自農業縣,所以我是很認同說農村再生基金是必須要提高的因為我們大家都知道說許多農村的這些房舍老舊需要翻新等等那整個狀況那是迫在眉睫的那我根據今天的報告農村再生基金的餘額是497億元\n61747\t84318\t立法院的同仁們不管是藍綠草野都認為這個不足以用來翻新重建老舊的農村所以我們才會提案要修法那有些委員主張是從法定基金的1500億提高到3600億有些委員主張到4500億那不管是3600億或者是4500億我都覺得對農村的幫助是非常大的那我想要請教\n85882\t104661\t如果說我們先從最基礎的提高到3600億跟法定的1500億元大概有相差2000多億如果分20年做編列預算的話那每年大概是增加105億元的概念這個財源農業部找不到嗎做不到嗎\n107179\t124006\t我想委員版本所提到的其實我也非常謝謝委員就是擔心這個農村再生在推動的時候經會沒辦法持續啦然後有設計了這樣的一個版本以現在農業部如果說用這樣的方式因為委員的版本裡面有明確的\n125026\t125686\t條例第十五條條例第十五條條例第十五條條例第十五條條例\n154497\t158739\t我相信行政院應該也可以去接受而且我們會用最大的力量去爭取行政院的一個經費\n174744\t175164\t一、本院委員\n196365\t218019\t我想我們先想好嘛,我們就講四年就好了,你剛剛講說中長城抱怨的話,你就這個可能性不是做得到的嗎?因為農業部的工作就是發展農業、建設農業跟照顧農村,但是除了這個部分之外,預算的編列之外,還有這個法條,就是說很多農村共有的土地,它的老舊房屋問題,這必須要修改的嘛,所以\n218519\t234448\t他必須要包括我們一起來思考整體就是說農村再生條例裡面本身也要來講因為不只是預算的部分法條的部分兩個都要共同進去思考我們不能夠我覺得我們的立法委員提出3600億、4500億或是等等不同的金額的時候\n235526\t250364\t我們提出來的這個原因跟他這個背景的立場我們要先想清楚我們才會好去執行那既然是由行政院我們現在講行政、立法來分級沒關係我們就講行政院你剛剛提到說財政紀律那一百零五億這個是做不到的嗎?\n252694\t267162\t我個人覺得就是說我們如果把這個計畫書的相關的成果跟我們要做的提到行政院應該可以得到行政院的支持那行政院支持完了以後主席總處那邊就會去找相關的財源來合撥給我們\n268203\t277249\t那我想這也是我們所有草原的立法委員大概提出這樣的法案的背景跟理由。這個源頭很重要。那再麻煩我們這個所有的與會的這個過去的農委會我們的所有的官員要一起來想想看,包含我們剛剛講到的法條的部分\n292320\t294082\t法治上來講有些已經過世有些是因為財產產權的問題必須由農業部\n300802\t325081\t全面來去思考一下,怎麼樣來解決這個問題,不然我看到很多都是直接荒廢在那邊,十年前是這樣,五年前是這樣,今年去還是這樣,我不希望未來的五年十年還都一樣。我跟委員說明,像特別農村社區的確有一些產權,一些比較多的產權人,然後有一些糾紛的部分,後續我想我們會真的農村的整個空間的一個規劃去做適度的一個界定,包括一些土地的一個\n325902\t330565\t修正草案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會\n344772\t367664\t所以我們也會跟內政部去做共同的討論還有一些產權的部分還有一些最主要是我們農業部有一個農村的整體規劃的話我們就可以說服內政部啦所以相對的我想農業部還是一個組織單位我們會盡可能的去做這樣的一個思考好那再麻煩部長這個是很重要因為我看閒置在那邊還是不好的好謝謝謝謝\n","txt":"請做巡檔主席,麻煩請部長我們再請陳部長\n部長好,我們今天來談一下這個農村再生基金的總額提高的部分。那我想依照這個財政紀律法的規定,法律案如果要增加政府的稅出,我們要具體的指明彌補資金的來源。\n我來自農業縣,所以我是很認同說農村再生基金是必須要提高的因為我們大家都知道說許多農村的這些房舍老舊需要翻新等等那整個狀況那是迫在眉睫的那我根據今天的報告農村再生基金的餘額是497億元\n立法院的同仁們不管是藍綠草野都認為這個不足以用來翻新重建老舊的農村所以我們才會提案要修法那有些委員主張是從法定基金的1500億提高到3600億有些委員主張到4500億那不管是3600億或者是4500億我都覺得對農村的幫助是非常大的那我想要請教\n如果說我們先從最基礎的提高到3600億跟法定的1500億元大概有相差2000多億如果分20年做編列預算的話那每年大概是增加105億元的概念這個財源農業部找不到嗎做不到嗎\n我想委員版本所提到的其實我也非常謝謝委員就是擔心這個農村再生在推動的時候經會沒辦法持續啦然後有設計了這樣的一個版本以現在農業部如果說用這樣的方式因為委員的版本裡面有明確的\n條例第十五條條例第十五條條例第十五條條例第十五條條例\n我相信行政院應該也可以去接受而且我們會用最大的力量去爭取行政院的一個經費\n一、本院委員\n我想我們先想好嘛,我們就講四年就好了,你剛剛講說中長城抱怨的話,你就這個可能性不是做得到的嗎?因為農業部的工作就是發展農業、建設農業跟照顧農村,但是除了這個部分之外,預算的編列之外,還有這個法條,就是說很多農村共有的土地,它的老舊房屋問題,這必須要修改的嘛,所以\n他必須要包括我們一起來思考整體就是說農村再生條例裡面本身也要來講因為不只是預算的部分法條的部分兩個都要共同進去思考我們不能夠我覺得我們的立法委員提出3600億、4500億或是等等不同的金額的時候\n我們提出來的這個原因跟他這個背景的立場我們要先想清楚我們才會好去執行那既然是由行政院我們現在講行政、立法來分級沒關係我們就講行政院你剛剛提到說財政紀律那一百零五億這個是做不到的嗎?\n我個人覺得就是說我們如果把這個計畫書的相關的成果跟我們要做的提到行政院應該可以得到行政院的支持那行政院支持完了以後主席總處那邊就會去找相關的財源來合撥給我們\n那我想這也是我們所有草原的立法委員大概提出這樣的法案的背景跟理由。這個源頭很重要。那再麻煩我們這個所有的與會的這個過去的農委會我們的所有的官員要一起來想想看,包含我們剛剛講到的法條的部分\n法治上來講有些已經過世有些是因為財產產權的問題必須由農業部\n全面來去思考一下,怎麼樣來解決這個問題,不然我看到很多都是直接荒廢在那邊,十年前是這樣,五年前是這樣,今年去還是這樣,我不希望未來的五年十年還都一樣。我跟委員說明,像特別農村社區的確有一些產權,一些比較多的產權人,然後有一些糾紛的部分,後續我想我們會真的農村的整個空間的一個規劃去做適度的一個界定,包括一些土地的一個\n修正草案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會\n所以我們也會跟內政部去做共同的討論還有一些產權的部分還有一些最主要是我們農業部有一個農村的整體規劃的話我們就可以說服內政部啦所以相對的我想農業部還是一個組織單位我們會盡可能的去做這樣的一個思考好那再麻煩部長這個是很重要因為我看閒置在那邊還是不好的好謝謝謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.083 --> 00:01.004\n請做巡檔主席,麻煩請部長我們再請陳部長\n\n00:23.170 --> 00:37.974\n部長好,我們今天來談一下這個農村再生基金的總額提高的部分。那我想依照這個財政紀律法的規定,法律案如果要增加政府的稅出,我們要具體的指明彌補資金的來源。\n\n00:41.796 --> 00:59.486\n我來自農業縣,所以我是很認同說農村再生基金是必須要提高的因為我們大家都知道說許多農村的這些房舍老舊需要翻新等等那整個狀況那是迫在眉睫的那我根據今天的報告農村再生基金的餘額是497億元\n\n01:01.747 --> 01:24.318\n立法院的同仁們不管是藍綠草野都認為這個不足以用來翻新重建老舊的農村所以我們才會提案要修法那有些委員主張是從法定基金的1500億提高到3600億有些委員主張到4500億那不管是3600億或者是4500億我都覺得對農村的幫助是非常大的那我想要請教\n\n01:25.882 --> 01:44.661\n如果說我們先從最基礎的提高到3600億跟法定的1500億元大概有相差2000多億如果分20年做編列預算的話那每年大概是增加105億元的概念這個財源農業部找不到嗎做不到嗎\n\n01:47.179 --> 02:04.006\n我想委員版本所提到的其實我也非常謝謝委員就是擔心這個農村再生在推動的時候經會沒辦法持續啦然後有設計了這樣的一個版本以現在農業部如果說用這樣的方式因為委員的版本裡面有明確的\n\n02:05.026 --> 02:05.686\n條例第十五條條例第十五條條例第十五條條例第十五條條例\n\n02:34.497 --> 02:38.739\n我相信行政院應該也可以去接受而且我們會用最大的力量去爭取行政院的一個經費\n\n02:54.744 --> 02:55.164\n一、本院委員\n\n03:16.365 --> 03:38.019\n我想我們先想好嘛,我們就講四年就好了,你剛剛講說中長城抱怨的話,你就這個可能性不是做得到的嗎?因為農業部的工作就是發展農業、建設農業跟照顧農村,但是除了這個部分之外,預算的編列之外,還有這個法條,就是說很多農村共有的土地,它的老舊房屋問題,這必須要修改的嘛,所以\n\n03:38.519 --> 03:54.448\n他必須要包括我們一起來思考整體就是說農村再生條例裡面本身也要來講因為不只是預算的部分法條的部分兩個都要共同進去思考我們不能夠我覺得我們的立法委員提出3600億、4500億或是等等不同的金額的時候\n\n03:55.526 --> 04:10.364\n我們提出來的這個原因跟他這個背景的立場我們要先想清楚我們才會好去執行那既然是由行政院我們現在講行政、立法來分級沒關係我們就講行政院你剛剛提到說財政紀律那一百零五億這個是做不到的嗎?\n\n04:12.694 --> 04:27.162\n我個人覺得就是說我們如果把這個計畫書的相關的成果跟我們要做的提到行政院應該可以得到行政院的支持那行政院支持完了以後主席總處那邊就會去找相關的財源來合撥給我們\n\n04:28.203 --> 04:37.249\n那我想這也是我們所有草原的立法委員大概提出這樣的法案的背景跟理由。這個源頭很重要。那再麻煩我們這個所有的與會的這個過去的農委會我們的所有的官員要一起來想想看,包含我們剛剛講到的法條的部分\n\n04:52.320 --> 04:54.082\n法治上來講有些已經過世有些是因為財產產權的問題必須由農業部\n\n05:00.802 --> 05:25.081\n全面來去思考一下,怎麼樣來解決這個問題,不然我看到很多都是直接荒廢在那邊,十年前是這樣,五年前是這樣,今年去還是這樣,我不希望未來的五年十年還都一樣。我跟委員說明,像特別農村社區的確有一些產權,一些比較多的產權人,然後有一些糾紛的部分,後續我想我們會真的農村的整個空間的一個規劃去做適度的一個界定,包括一些土地的一個\n\n05:25.902 --> 05:30.565\n修正草案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會\n\n05:44.772 --> 06:07.664\n所以我們也會跟內政部去做共同的討論還有一些產權的部分還有一些最主要是我們農業部有一個農村的整體規劃的話我們就可以說服內政部啦所以相對的我想農業部還是一個組織單位我們會盡可能的去做這樣的一個思考好那再麻煩部長這個是很重要因為我看閒置在那邊還是不好的好謝謝謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.083,"end":1.004,"text":"請做巡檔主席,麻煩請部長我們再請陳部長"},{"start":23.17,"end":37.974,"text":"部長好,我們今天來談一下這個農村再生基金的總額提高的部分。那我想依照這個財政紀律法的規定,法律案如果要增加政府的稅出,我們要具體的指明彌補資金的來源。"},{"start":41.796,"end":59.486,"text":"我來自農業縣,所以我是很認同說農村再生基金是必須要提高的因為我們大家都知道說許多農村的這些房舍老舊需要翻新等等那整個狀況那是迫在眉睫的那我根據今天的報告農村再生基金的餘額是497億元"},{"start":61.747,"end":84.318,"text":"立法院的同仁們不管是藍綠草野都認為這個不足以用來翻新重建老舊的農村所以我們才會提案要修法那有些委員主張是從法定基金的1500億提高到3600億有些委員主張到4500億那不管是3600億或者是4500億我都覺得對農村的幫助是非常大的那我想要請教"},{"start":85.882,"end":104.661,"text":"如果說我們先從最基礎的提高到3600億跟法定的1500億元大概有相差2000多億如果分20年做編列預算的話那每年大概是增加105億元的概念這個財源農業部找不到嗎做不到嗎"},{"start":107.179,"end":124.006,"text":"我想委員版本所提到的其實我也非常謝謝委員就是擔心這個農村再生在推動的時候經會沒辦法持續啦然後有設計了這樣的一個版本以現在農業部如果說用這樣的方式因為委員的版本裡面有明確的"},{"start":125.026,"end":125.686,"text":"條例第十五條條例第十五條條例第十五條條例第十五條條例"},{"start":154.497,"end":158.739,"text":"我相信行政院應該也可以去接受而且我們會用最大的力量去爭取行政院的一個經費"},{"start":174.744,"end":175.164,"text":"一、本院委員"},{"start":196.365,"end":218.019,"text":"我想我們先想好嘛,我們就講四年就好了,你剛剛講說中長城抱怨的話,你就這個可能性不是做得到的嗎?因為農業部的工作就是發展農業、建設農業跟照顧農村,但是除了這個部分之外,預算的編列之外,還有這個法條,就是說很多農村共有的土地,它的老舊房屋問題,這必須要修改的嘛,所以"},{"start":218.519,"end":234.448,"text":"他必須要包括我們一起來思考整體就是說農村再生條例裡面本身也要來講因為不只是預算的部分法條的部分兩個都要共同進去思考我們不能夠我覺得我們的立法委員提出3600億、4500億或是等等不同的金額的時候"},{"start":235.526,"end":250.364,"text":"我們提出來的這個原因跟他這個背景的立場我們要先想清楚我們才會好去執行那既然是由行政院我們現在講行政、立法來分級沒關係我們就講行政院你剛剛提到說財政紀律那一百零五億這個是做不到的嗎?"},{"start":252.694,"end":267.162,"text":"我個人覺得就是說我們如果把這個計畫書的相關的成果跟我們要做的提到行政院應該可以得到行政院的支持那行政院支持完了以後主席總處那邊就會去找相關的財源來合撥給我們"},{"start":268.203,"end":277.249,"text":"那我想這也是我們所有草原的立法委員大概提出這樣的法案的背景跟理由。這個源頭很重要。那再麻煩我們這個所有的與會的這個過去的農委會我們的所有的官員要一起來想想看,包含我們剛剛講到的法條的部分"},{"start":292.32,"end":294.082,"text":"法治上來講有些已經過世有些是因為財產產權的問題必須由農業部"},{"start":300.802,"end":325.081,"text":"全面來去思考一下,怎麼樣來解決這個問題,不然我看到很多都是直接荒廢在那邊,十年前是這樣,五年前是這樣,今年去還是這樣,我不希望未來的五年十年還都一樣。我跟委員說明,像特別農村社區的確有一些產權,一些比較多的產權人,然後有一些糾紛的部分,後續我想我們會真的農村的整個空間的一個規劃去做適度的一個界定,包括一些土地的一個"},{"start":325.902,"end":330.565,"text":"修正草案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會"},{"start":344.772,"end":367.664,"text":"所以我們也會跟內政部去做共同的討論還有一些產權的部分還有一些最主要是我們農業部有一個農村的整體規劃的話我們就可以說服內政部啦所以相對的我想農業部還是一個組織單位我們會盡可能的去做這樣的一個思考好那再麻煩部長這個是很重要因為我看閒置在那邊還是不好的好謝謝謝謝"}]}}}}