{"id":152538,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152538","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7786a6f84a6532c054ebcce332c7dd4396869206de9aca73abc25b9e10ac7e45177d7761fde0a4875ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"翁曉玲","委員發言時間":"12:28:42 - 12:40:55","影片長度":"00:12:13","會議時間":"2024-05-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長率所屬相關單位列席就「總統行使特赦後，該案未沒收之不法所得及停審未定讞案件之處理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-15","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-22"},"duration":733,"end_time":"2024-05-15T12:40:55+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-15T12:28:42+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1007,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（12時28分）主席好。有請秘書長，還有次長。"],["吳秘書長三龍：委員好。"],["黃次長謀信：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：次長、秘書長好。剛剛前面幾個委員都已經提到了，在我們歷任總統的特赦案件大概有8件，在蔡總統任內，到目前為止有2件特赦案，這2件特赦案一個是在2021年針對原住民獵人王光祿獵捕野生動物案，另外一個則是2022年針對兩位將官因為微薄的加菜金而違法的餐費核銷案，我們再看看前面幾任總統他們特赦的案件，請問在這8個案子當中，有哪一個是針對嚴重貪污、舞弊、收賄的案子來進行特赦的？雖然我們現在看到的是報載的新聞，蔡總統可能在他卸任之前會針對陳水扁進行特赦，在剛剛其他委員的詢問當中，也知道法務部到現在為止沒有收到什麼指示，我想請教，如果按照剛剛次長的說法，是不是核發證明是非常快速的，可能一個小時之內就可以做好？"],["黃次長謀信：報告委員，我們接受行政院的指示或者是總統的指示後，我們要給予這個證明，這個證明其實就是一個書面而已，製作的時間不會太長，不需要太長的時間。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以就是說可以非常迅速的，也許短短的幾分鐘，反正已經是一個定型化的表格，填上一個名字……"],["黃次長謀信：它是書面沒錯，但是它有一個送達的問題，我們必須要送達給受赦免人，因為這是赦免法上規定，另外有一個送達時間的問題。"],["翁委員曉玲：也就是說最慢時間也是24小時之內就可以完畢這樣的作業流程，按照剛剛的說法，其實你們的作業是絕對來得及的，就算是蔡總統在5月19號才告訴你們，請你們研議要做這個特赦，你們在非常短的時間都可以做得到的。","接下來我想請教一下，這也是今天大家討論到有關於赦免法第三條的問題，如果蔡總統會針對陳水扁進行赦免的話，那可能會是什麼樣的一個狀態？我比較擔心的是，如果蔡總統是依據赦免法第三條，有特殊情形，將罪行都赦免。那麼這是不是代表，陳水扁之後如果要出來參選，還是有這個可能性的？"],["黃次長謀信：如果罪行都赦免的話，基本上包括他的褫奪公權也會被赦免，至於可不可以參選，要看我們……"],["翁委員曉玲：現行的法規。"],["黃次長謀信：對，公職人員選舉罷免法第二十六條有一些例外的規定，不能夠參選。"],["翁委員曉玲：但是現在他已經沒有任何的罪行了，所以就法律的規定上面來講，他是極有可能會參選，不無這個可能性，所以這也是講到，如果蔡總統今天行使這個赦免權，如果最後他採取的是以特殊情形的狀況，將罪行都赦免，讓陳水扁有可能再參選的機會，這個背後就有非常嚴重的政治上面的考慮，這個不無可能性。","我接下來想要再談的是，大家也很關心，如果說特赦是依照赦免法第三條前段的規定，就是只免除其刑，那麼接下來停審中的這4個案子是不是要恢復執行的問題。剛剛秘書長一直在談到這是屬於4個法官的審判核心問題，我想請教秘書長，所謂的審判核心沒有界限嗎？法官獨立審判的權力，難道這個權力沒有節制、沒有界限嗎？"],["吳秘書長三龍：原則上這個是屬於審判核心，基於審判獨立，由個案承審的法官……"],["翁委員曉玲：很好，您剛剛說的審判核心、審判獨立，我想請教一下，你們司法院自己都有頒布各級法院辦案期限實施要點，你們做這樣的限期法院的辦案期限要點難道沒有違憲嗎？這沒有侵害到法官的審判獨立、審判核心嗎？"],["吳秘書長三龍：那個是就一般通常的情形。"],["翁委員曉玲：那陳水扁的案子有什麼例外的情形嗎？"],["吳秘書長三龍：這個就回復到個案……"],["翁委員曉玲：他的個案到底跟別的案子有什麼不同？"],["吳秘書長三龍：因為每個案件還是會有一些……"],["翁委員曉玲：是，我必須要講，這是一個非常嚴肅的問題，這個嚴肅的問題就涉及到大家對於司法的信任，對於司法的公信力，到目前為止大家都非常懷疑是否臺灣的司法還有公信力？說實在話，赦免這件事情是屬於總統憲法上的權力，我不願多做評論，他有他的考量，但是我認為今天這個特赦的案子，我剛剛說了，這個特赦案我不願意再多做評論，但是我更在乎的是陳水扁保外就醫的事情。陳水扁從2015年保外就醫至今已經展延了38次，他的保外就醫時間長達9年，在這一段牢獄外的生活，他可以說是多采多姿，他既幫很多候選人站臺拉票、主持電臺節目，又開直播演講，還幫他的兒子陳致中市議員的競選造勢晚會，又登記參選不分區的候選人，然後到總統府前面請願，並擔任他女兒的訴訟律師，還出席新書發表會、參與校友會活動，這些種種的行為表現得比健康人都還更活躍，但是他就是有本事不回到監獄去服刑。","我必須說，法務部、矯正署、臺中監獄你們放任受刑人陳水扁在外面逍遙法外，利用保外就醫的名義在外面任意破壞我們司法的程序，我不客氣地講，你們的作為是臺灣司法之恥！你們還能夠堅持司法是社會正義的最後一道防線嗎？在你們的眼中還有法律之前人人平等嗎？現在的司法人員是怎麼樣，你們的腦中裡面是只有權貴司法嗎？不比較還不覺得陳水扁的行徑有多麼惡劣，你們知道在2020年所公布的兩公約執行情形第三次的國家報告裡面顯示，保外就醫期間的死亡比率高達25%，也就是每4位保外就醫的受刑人中，就有1位可能會死亡，最後回到監獄的人數大概15%左右。監察院在2020年的時候也曾經針對矯正署做過一份糾正報告，也就是現在的監獄啟動保外醫治的裁量標準以及空間過於籠統模糊，我們常常看到非常多的新聞報導有講，受刑人在獄中都已經生病得非常嚴重了，才送到醫院去醫治，在很短、大概一、兩月的時間可能就會往生。相形之下，陳水扁今天這樣的行為，為什麼我們社會大眾沒有辦法看得下去、沒有辦法接受？就是他已經太偏離常態了！","本席在就任立法委員後所發的第一份公文就是給臺中監獄，請他們要去探訪陳水扁且每三個月提出一次訪視報告，有做到嗎？提不出來！連要求最基本的書面報告也沒有，打個電話去問陳水扁你好不好，這種種的行為，獄方、矯正署、法務部，你們對這件事情實在是怠惰，你們真的已經把司法的公信力、司法的法律正當程序踩在腳底下，這是讓人民無法接受的。","我必須講，法院是審判機關，司法行政機關是一個執法機關，不要忘記你們的所作所為代表的都是司法正義。那4位法官到目前為止為什麼長期停審，而臺中監獄也可以長期的放任陳水扁一直在外保外就醫？這對大多數的民眾而言，是真的早就看不下去了！我實在不知道你們為什麼這樣放任陳水扁？我們口口聲聲說希望能夠維持司法獨立、維持司法正義，可是你們所做所為都是在侵害司法。這些年來，其實臺灣民眾已經對司法的信任度大幅降低，司法的公信力早已破產，不客氣地說，你們這些執法機關、審判機關難辭其咎，我非常期待你們能夠深刻檢討，當然接下來還要看是不是蔡總統真的會在卸任之前特赦陳水扁，可是如果他的特赦是指免刑的情況之下，那接下來4個案子一定要儘速啟動審判，否則根本無法向民眾交代，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","下一位請蔡易餘委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-22","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","翁曉玲","莊瑞雄","羅智強","陳俊宇","謝龍介","傅崐萁","林思銘","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","蔡易餘","吳思瑤","洪孟楷","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 732.305, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 732.305, \"end\": 732.325, \"score\": 0.065}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,793 --> 00:00:15,520\n主席好,有請秘書長還有次長委員好次長還有秘書長好\n\n2\n00:00:19,039 --> 00:00:36,071\n剛剛前面幾個委員都已經提到了在我們歷任總統的特赦案件大概有八件那在蔡總統任內到目前為止是有兩件的這個特赦案那麼這兩件特赦案呢分別是在一個這兩件特赦案一個是在20\n\n3\n00:00:44,735 --> 00:00:59,821\n21年針對原住民獵人王光祿的他獵捕野生動物案另外一個則是2022年針對兩位將官因為微博的加菜金可能會違反違法的參費核銷案\n\n4\n00:01:04,602 --> 00:01:28,007\n那麼我們再看看前面幾任總統他們特赦的案件請問在這8個案子當中有哪一個是針對嚴重貪污、舞弊、收賄的案子來進行特赦的?雖然我們現在看到的是報載的新聞那麼蔡總統可能在她卸任之前會針對陳水扁這個進行特赦那在\n\n5\n00:01:34,449 --> 00:01:52,031\n剛剛的其他委員的這個詢問當中也知道法務部是說到現在為止也沒有收到什麼指示我想請教就是如果按照剛剛次長的說法是不是合法證明是非常快速的可能一個小時之內就可以做好\n\n6\n00:01:54,656 --> 00:02:19,673\n我們要接受行政院指示或總統府指示我們要給予這個證明它其實就是一個書面而已它製作的時間不會太長所以就是說可以非常迅速的也許短短的幾分鐘反正它就已經是一個定型化的表格填上一個名字但是它有一個送達的問題\n\n7\n00:02:20,313 --> 00:02:32,734\n我們必須要送達給受赦免人因為赦免人法上規定所以另外一個送達之間的問題是好那也就是說最快最慢時間也是24小時之內就可以完畢這樣子一個作業流程\n\n8\n00:02:35,117 --> 00:02:53,322\n在這麼樣子的這個就是按照剛剛的說法其實你們的作業是絕對來得及的就算是蔡總統她在5月19號才告訴你們說請你們要研議要做這個特赦你們這是在非常短的時間都可以做得到的\n\n9\n00:02:53,982 --> 00:03:22,860\n那我接下來我想請教一下這也是今天大家在討論到有關於赦免法第3條的這個問題這個如果說蔡總統會針對陳水扁進行赦免的話那可能會是什麼樣的一個狀態我比較擔心的是說如果說是蔡總統這個依據赦免法第3條的有特殊的情形將罪行都赦免那麼這是不是代表就是陳水扁之後若要出來參選還是有這個可能性的\n\n10\n00:03:25,153 --> 00:03:39,102\n跟委員報告：如果罪行都赦免的話那基本上他就他的包括他的此樓公權也會被赦免但至於可不可以參選你要看我們的這個我們的這個那個現行的法規\n\n11\n00:03:40,483 --> 00:04:00,817\n對,公正人權罷免法規定它有一些26條它有一些例外的規定不能夠參選但是現在它已經沒有任何的罪行了所以就法律的規定上面來講它是極有可能會參選的不無這個可能性所以這也是在講到就是如果說蔡總統她今天行使這個赦免權的話\n\n12\n00:04:02,378 --> 00:04:03,059\n我接下來想要再談的就是\n\n13\n00:04:21,101 --> 00:04:38,649\n大家也很關心如果說是特赦是依照社民法第三條的前段的前句的規定就是直免除期刑那麼接下來這個四個案子停審中的四個案子要是不是要回復執行的這個問題剛剛秘書長\n\n14\n00:04:42,779 --> 00:04:54,688\n一直在談到有關於這是屬於4個案子4個法官是指他審判核心的問題我想請教秘書長所謂的審判核心沒有界限嗎?法官獨立審判的這個權利難道這個權利沒有節制嗎?沒有界限嗎?這個原則上是這個是屬於審判核心那基於審判獨立由個案成審法官\n\n15\n00:05:13,042 --> 00:05:33,856\n您剛說了審判核心、審判獨立那我想請教一下你們司法院自己都有頒布各級法院的辦案期限的實施要點那你們這樣做的這個限期法院法官的辦案的這樣的期限要點難道沒有違憲嗎這沒有侵害到法官的審判獨立嗎審判核心嗎\n\n16\n00:05:37,112 --> 00:05:50,442\n那個是就一般通常的情形那陳雪扁的案子有什麼例外的情形嗎這個就回復到就是個案他的個案到底跟別的案子有什麼不同因為\n\n17\n00:05:51,550 --> 00:06:09,436\n每個案件它還是會有一些是我必須要講這是一個非常嚴肅的問題這個嚴肅的問題就涉及到大家對於司法的信任對於司法的公信力大家到目前為止非常懷疑是否我們台灣的司法還有公信力說實在話赦免這件事情屬於總統的這個憲法上的權利\n\n18\n00:06:18,464 --> 00:06:19,525\n陳水扁從2015年保外就醫至今已經展延了38次\n\n19\n00:06:44,960 --> 00:07:05,548\n她的保外就業時間長達9年在這一段牢獄外的生活她可以說是多彩多姿啊她既幫助很多的候選人去參台去站台拉票主持電台節目又開直播演講幫她的兒子陳志忠市議員的競選肇事\n\n20\n00:07:07,529 --> 00:07:31,417\n晚會．然後又登記參選不分區的候選人．然後到總統府前面請願．然後幫助他的女兒．擔任他女兒的訴訟律師．還出席新書發表會．參與社友會活動．種種的這些行為表現．比健康人都還更活躍．但是他就有本事．不回到監獄去服刑\n\n21\n00:07:33,203 --> 00:07:55,823\n我必須說,法務部、矯正署、台中監獄你們放任受刑人陳水扁在外面逍遙法外利用保外就醫的名義在外面任意的破壞我們司法的程序你們的作為,不客氣的講是台灣司法之恥\n\n22\n00:07:57,455 --> 00:08:12,742\n你們還能堅持司法是社會正義的最後一道防線嗎?在你們的眼中還有法律之前人人平等嗎?我真的認為現在的司法人員是怎麼樣?你們的腦中裡面是只有權貴司法嗎?\n\n23\n00:08:16,462 --> 00:08:42,289\n不比較還不覺得說陳水扁的這個行徑有多麼的惡劣你們知道在2020年這個所公布的兩公約執行情形第三次的國家報告裡面顯示保外就醫的期間死亡的比例是高達25%也就是有四位保外就醫的這個受刑人有一位可能就會死亡\n\n24\n00:08:43,666 --> 00:09:02,846\n那麼回到監獄的人數大概差不多15%左右監察院在2020年的時候其實也曾經做過一個糾正報告也提出這個矯正署也糾正矯正署也就是現在的監獄他啟動保外醫治的材料標準以及空間過於籠統模糊\n\n25\n00:09:05,008 --> 00:09:22,935\n常常我們看到非常多的新聞報導有講這個受刑人在獄中都已經快要這個生命非常嚴重了然後才送到醫院去醫治在很短大概一兩月的時間可能就會往生\n\n26\n00:09:24,864 --> 00:09:51,976\n相形之下陳水扁今天這樣的行為為什麼我們社會大眾沒有辦法看下去看得下去沒有辦法接受就算他已經太偏離常態了本席在就任立法委員的我發的第一份公文就是給台中監獄請他們要提出去探訪陳水扁的種種的每一次每三個月一次的訪視報告\n\n27\n00:09:54,232 --> 00:10:03,060\n有做到嗎提不出來連要求最基本的書面報告也沒有打個電話去問說陳雪碧你好不好種種的行為這個預發和這個矯正署法務部你們對這件事情實在是怠惰你們已經真的把這個司法的這個\n\n28\n00:10:19,318 --> 00:10:24,720\n法院是審判機關司法行政機關是執法機關不要忘記你們所作所為代表的都是司法正義法官\n\n29\n00:10:47,386 --> 00:11:12,056\n到目前為止那四位法官到目前為止為什麼長期的停審而臺中監獄呢也可以長期的放任陳水扁一直在外保外就醫對大多數的民眾而言是真的早就看不下去了我實在不知道就是你們為什麼這麼樣的放任陳水扁\n\n30\n00:11:13,308 --> 00:11:34,041\n我們口口聲聲的希望能夠維持司法獨立維持司法正義可是你們所作所為都是在侵害司法這些年來其實台灣民眾已經對司法的信任度大幅的降低那司法的公信力早已破產\n\n31\n00:11:35,691 --> 00:12:01,779\n不客氣的說你們這些執法機關、審判機關難辭其咎我非常期待你們能夠深刻檢討當然接下來還要看是不是真的蔡總統會在他卸任之前特赦陳水扁可是如果他是特赦適指免刑\n\n32\n00:12:03,052 --> 00:12:12,325\n的情況之下那4個那接下來4個案子一定要儘速啟動審判否則根本無法向民眾交代好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5793\t15520\t主席好,有請秘書長還有次長委員好次長還有秘書長好\n19039\t36071\t剛剛前面幾個委員都已經提到了在我們歷任總統的特赦案件大概有八件那在蔡總統任內到目前為止是有兩件的這個特赦案那麼這兩件特赦案呢分別是在一個這兩件特赦案一個是在20\n44735\t59821\t21年針對原住民獵人王光祿的他獵捕野生動物案另外一個則是2022年針對兩位將官因為微博的加菜金可能會違反違法的參費核銷案\n64602\t88007\t那麼我們再看看前面幾任總統他們特赦的案件請問在這8個案子當中有哪一個是針對嚴重貪污、舞弊、收賄的案子來進行特赦的?雖然我們現在看到的是報載的新聞那麼蔡總統可能在她卸任之前會針對陳水扁這個進行特赦那在\n94449\t112031\t剛剛的其他委員的這個詢問當中也知道法務部是說到現在為止也沒有收到什麼指示我想請教就是如果按照剛剛次長的說法是不是合法證明是非常快速的可能一個小時之內就可以做好\n114656\t139673\t我們要接受行政院指示或總統府指示我們要給予這個證明它其實就是一個書面而已它製作的時間不會太長所以就是說可以非常迅速的也許短短的幾分鐘反正它就已經是一個定型化的表格填上一個名字但是它有一個送達的問題\n140313\t152734\t我們必須要送達給受赦免人因為赦免人法上規定所以另外一個送達之間的問題是好那也就是說最快最慢時間也是24小時之內就可以完畢這樣子一個作業流程\n155117\t173322\t在這麼樣子的這個就是按照剛剛的說法其實你們的作業是絕對來得及的就算是蔡總統她在5月19號才告訴你們說請你們要研議要做這個特赦你們這是在非常短的時間都可以做得到的\n173982\t202860\t那我接下來我想請教一下這也是今天大家在討論到有關於赦免法第3條的這個問題這個如果說蔡總統會針對陳水扁進行赦免的話那可能會是什麼樣的一個狀態我比較擔心的是說如果說是蔡總統這個依據赦免法第3條的有特殊的情形將罪行都赦免那麼這是不是代表就是陳水扁之後若要出來參選還是有這個可能性的\n205153\t219102\t跟委員報告：如果罪行都赦免的話那基本上他就他的包括他的此樓公權也會被赦免但至於可不可以參選你要看我們的這個我們的這個那個現行的法規\n220483\t240817\t對,公正人權罷免法規定它有一些26條它有一些例外的規定不能夠參選但是現在它已經沒有任何的罪行了所以就法律的規定上面來講它是極有可能會參選的不無這個可能性所以這也是在講到就是如果說蔡總統她今天行使這個赦免權的話\n242378\t243059\t我接下來想要再談的就是\n261101\t278649\t大家也很關心如果說是特赦是依照社民法第三條的前段的前句的規定就是直免除期刑那麼接下來這個四個案子停審中的四個案子要是不是要回復執行的這個問題剛剛秘書長\n282779\t294688\t一直在談到有關於這是屬於4個案子4個法官是指他審判核心的問題我想請教秘書長所謂的審判核心沒有界限嗎?法官獨立審判的這個權利難道這個權利沒有節制嗎?沒有界限嗎?這個原則上是這個是屬於審判核心那基於審判獨立由個案成審法官\n313042\t333856\t您剛說了審判核心、審判獨立那我想請教一下你們司法院自己都有頒布各級法院的辦案期限的實施要點那你們這樣做的這個限期法院法官的辦案的這樣的期限要點難道沒有違憲嗎這沒有侵害到法官的審判獨立嗎審判核心嗎\n337112\t350442\t那個是就一般通常的情形那陳雪扁的案子有什麼例外的情形嗎這個就回復到就是個案他的個案到底跟別的案子有什麼不同因為\n351550\t369436\t每個案件它還是會有一些是我必須要講這是一個非常嚴肅的問題這個嚴肅的問題就涉及到大家對於司法的信任對於司法的公信力大家到目前為止非常懷疑是否我們台灣的司法還有公信力說實在話赦免這件事情屬於總統的這個憲法上的權利\n378464\t379525\t陳水扁從2015年保外就醫至今已經展延了38次\n404960\t425548\t她的保外就業時間長達9年在這一段牢獄外的生活她可以說是多彩多姿啊她既幫助很多的候選人去參台去站台拉票主持電台節目又開直播演講幫她的兒子陳志忠市議員的競選肇事\n427529\t451417\t晚會．然後又登記參選不分區的候選人．然後到總統府前面請願．然後幫助他的女兒．擔任他女兒的訴訟律師．還出席新書發表會．參與社友會活動．種種的這些行為表現．比健康人都還更活躍．但是他就有本事．不回到監獄去服刑\n453203\t475823\t我必須說,法務部、矯正署、台中監獄你們放任受刑人陳水扁在外面逍遙法外利用保外就醫的名義在外面任意的破壞我們司法的程序你們的作為,不客氣的講是台灣司法之恥\n477455\t492742\t你們還能堅持司法是社會正義的最後一道防線嗎?在你們的眼中還有法律之前人人平等嗎?我真的認為現在的司法人員是怎麼樣?你們的腦中裡面是只有權貴司法嗎?\n496462\t522289\t不比較還不覺得說陳水扁的這個行徑有多麼的惡劣你們知道在2020年這個所公布的兩公約執行情形第三次的國家報告裡面顯示保外就醫的期間死亡的比例是高達25%也就是有四位保外就醫的這個受刑人有一位可能就會死亡\n523666\t542846\t那麼回到監獄的人數大概差不多15%左右監察院在2020年的時候其實也曾經做過一個糾正報告也提出這個矯正署也糾正矯正署也就是現在的監獄他啟動保外醫治的材料標準以及空間過於籠統模糊\n545008\t562935\t常常我們看到非常多的新聞報導有講這個受刑人在獄中都已經快要這個生命非常嚴重了然後才送到醫院去醫治在很短大概一兩月的時間可能就會往生\n564864\t591976\t相形之下陳水扁今天這樣的行為為什麼我們社會大眾沒有辦法看下去看得下去沒有辦法接受就算他已經太偏離常態了本席在就任立法委員的我發的第一份公文就是給台中監獄請他們要提出去探訪陳水扁的種種的每一次每三個月一次的訪視報告\n594232\t603060\t有做到嗎提不出來連要求最基本的書面報告也沒有打個電話去問說陳雪碧你好不好種種的行為這個預發和這個矯正署法務部你們對這件事情實在是怠惰你們已經真的把這個司法的這個\n619318\t624720\t法院是審判機關司法行政機關是執法機關不要忘記你們所作所為代表的都是司法正義法官\n647386\t672056\t到目前為止那四位法官到目前為止為什麼長期的停審而臺中監獄呢也可以長期的放任陳水扁一直在外保外就醫對大多數的民眾而言是真的早就看不下去了我實在不知道就是你們為什麼這麼樣的放任陳水扁\n673308\t694041\t我們口口聲聲的希望能夠維持司法獨立維持司法正義可是你們所作所為都是在侵害司法這些年來其實台灣民眾已經對司法的信任度大幅的降低那司法的公信力早已破產\n695691\t721779\t不客氣的說你們這些執法機關、審判機關難辭其咎我非常期待你們能夠深刻檢討當然接下來還要看是不是真的蔡總統會在他卸任之前特赦陳水扁可是如果他是特赦適指免刑\n723052\t732325\t的情況之下那4個那接下來4個案子一定要儘速啟動審判否則根本無法向民眾交代好謝謝\n","txt":"主席好,有請秘書長還有次長委員好次長還有秘書長好\n剛剛前面幾個委員都已經提到了在我們歷任總統的特赦案件大概有八件那在蔡總統任內到目前為止是有兩件的這個特赦案那麼這兩件特赦案呢分別是在一個這兩件特赦案一個是在20\n21年針對原住民獵人王光祿的他獵捕野生動物案另外一個則是2022年針對兩位將官因為微博的加菜金可能會違反違法的參費核銷案\n那麼我們再看看前面幾任總統他們特赦的案件請問在這8個案子當中有哪一個是針對嚴重貪污、舞弊、收賄的案子來進行特赦的?雖然我們現在看到的是報載的新聞那麼蔡總統可能在她卸任之前會針對陳水扁這個進行特赦那在\n剛剛的其他委員的這個詢問當中也知道法務部是說到現在為止也沒有收到什麼指示我想請教就是如果按照剛剛次長的說法是不是合法證明是非常快速的可能一個小時之內就可以做好\n我們要接受行政院指示或總統府指示我們要給予這個證明它其實就是一個書面而已它製作的時間不會太長所以就是說可以非常迅速的也許短短的幾分鐘反正它就已經是一個定型化的表格填上一個名字但是它有一個送達的問題\n我們必須要送達給受赦免人因為赦免人法上規定所以另外一個送達之間的問題是好那也就是說最快最慢時間也是24小時之內就可以完畢這樣子一個作業流程\n在這麼樣子的這個就是按照剛剛的說法其實你們的作業是絕對來得及的就算是蔡總統她在5月19號才告訴你們說請你們要研議要做這個特赦你們這是在非常短的時間都可以做得到的\n那我接下來我想請教一下這也是今天大家在討論到有關於赦免法第3條的這個問題這個如果說蔡總統會針對陳水扁進行赦免的話那可能會是什麼樣的一個狀態我比較擔心的是說如果說是蔡總統這個依據赦免法第3條的有特殊的情形將罪行都赦免那麼這是不是代表就是陳水扁之後若要出來參選還是有這個可能性的\n跟委員報告：如果罪行都赦免的話那基本上他就他的包括他的此樓公權也會被赦免但至於可不可以參選你要看我們的這個我們的這個那個現行的法規\n對,公正人權罷免法規定它有一些26條它有一些例外的規定不能夠參選但是現在它已經沒有任何的罪行了所以就法律的規定上面來講它是極有可能會參選的不無這個可能性所以這也是在講到就是如果說蔡總統她今天行使這個赦免權的話\n我接下來想要再談的就是\n大家也很關心如果說是特赦是依照社民法第三條的前段的前句的規定就是直免除期刑那麼接下來這個四個案子停審中的四個案子要是不是要回復執行的這個問題剛剛秘書長\n一直在談到有關於這是屬於4個案子4個法官是指他審判核心的問題我想請教秘書長所謂的審判核心沒有界限嗎?法官獨立審判的這個權利難道這個權利沒有節制嗎?沒有界限嗎?這個原則上是這個是屬於審判核心那基於審判獨立由個案成審法官\n您剛說了審判核心、審判獨立那我想請教一下你們司法院自己都有頒布各級法院的辦案期限的實施要點那你們這樣做的這個限期法院法官的辦案的這樣的期限要點難道沒有違憲嗎這沒有侵害到法官的審判獨立嗎審判核心嗎\n那個是就一般通常的情形那陳雪扁的案子有什麼例外的情形嗎這個就回復到就是個案他的個案到底跟別的案子有什麼不同因為\n每個案件它還是會有一些是我必須要講這是一個非常嚴肅的問題這個嚴肅的問題就涉及到大家對於司法的信任對於司法的公信力大家到目前為止非常懷疑是否我們台灣的司法還有公信力說實在話赦免這件事情屬於總統的這個憲法上的權利\n陳水扁從2015年保外就醫至今已經展延了38次\n她的保外就業時間長達9年在這一段牢獄外的生活她可以說是多彩多姿啊她既幫助很多的候選人去參台去站台拉票主持電台節目又開直播演講幫她的兒子陳志忠市議員的競選肇事\n晚會．然後又登記參選不分區的候選人．然後到總統府前面請願．然後幫助他的女兒．擔任他女兒的訴訟律師．還出席新書發表會．參與社友會活動．種種的這些行為表現．比健康人都還更活躍．但是他就有本事．不回到監獄去服刑\n我必須說,法務部、矯正署、台中監獄你們放任受刑人陳水扁在外面逍遙法外利用保外就醫的名義在外面任意的破壞我們司法的程序你們的作為,不客氣的講是台灣司法之恥\n你們還能堅持司法是社會正義的最後一道防線嗎?在你們的眼中還有法律之前人人平等嗎?我真的認為現在的司法人員是怎麼樣?你們的腦中裡面是只有權貴司法嗎?\n不比較還不覺得說陳水扁的這個行徑有多麼的惡劣你們知道在2020年這個所公布的兩公約執行情形第三次的國家報告裡面顯示保外就醫的期間死亡的比例是高達25%也就是有四位保外就醫的這個受刑人有一位可能就會死亡\n那麼回到監獄的人數大概差不多15%左右監察院在2020年的時候其實也曾經做過一個糾正報告也提出這個矯正署也糾正矯正署也就是現在的監獄他啟動保外醫治的材料標準以及空間過於籠統模糊\n常常我們看到非常多的新聞報導有講這個受刑人在獄中都已經快要這個生命非常嚴重了然後才送到醫院去醫治在很短大概一兩月的時間可能就會往生\n相形之下陳水扁今天這樣的行為為什麼我們社會大眾沒有辦法看下去看得下去沒有辦法接受就算他已經太偏離常態了本席在就任立法委員的我發的第一份公文就是給台中監獄請他們要提出去探訪陳水扁的種種的每一次每三個月一次的訪視報告\n有做到嗎提不出來連要求最基本的書面報告也沒有打個電話去問說陳雪碧你好不好種種的行為這個預發和這個矯正署法務部你們對這件事情實在是怠惰你們已經真的把這個司法的這個\n法院是審判機關司法行政機關是執法機關不要忘記你們所作所為代表的都是司法正義法官\n到目前為止那四位法官到目前為止為什麼長期的停審而臺中監獄呢也可以長期的放任陳水扁一直在外保外就醫對大多數的民眾而言是真的早就看不下去了我實在不知道就是你們為什麼這麼樣的放任陳水扁\n我們口口聲聲的希望能夠維持司法獨立維持司法正義可是你們所作所為都是在侵害司法這些年來其實台灣民眾已經對司法的信任度大幅的降低那司法的公信力早已破產\n不客氣的說你們這些執法機關、審判機關難辭其咎我非常期待你們能夠深刻檢討當然接下來還要看是不是真的蔡總統會在他卸任之前特赦陳水扁可是如果他是特赦適指免刑\n的情況之下那4個那接下來4個案子一定要儘速啟動審判否則根本無法向民眾交代好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.793 --> 00:15.520\n主席好,有請秘書長還有次長委員好次長還有秘書長好\n\n00:19.039 --> 00:36.071\n剛剛前面幾個委員都已經提到了在我們歷任總統的特赦案件大概有八件那在蔡總統任內到目前為止是有兩件的這個特赦案那麼這兩件特赦案呢分別是在一個這兩件特赦案一個是在20\n\n00:44.735 --> 00:59.821\n21年針對原住民獵人王光祿的他獵捕野生動物案另外一個則是2022年針對兩位將官因為微博的加菜金可能會違反違法的參費核銷案\n\n01:04.602 --> 01:28.007\n那麼我們再看看前面幾任總統他們特赦的案件請問在這8個案子當中有哪一個是針對嚴重貪污、舞弊、收賄的案子來進行特赦的?雖然我們現在看到的是報載的新聞那麼蔡總統可能在她卸任之前會針對陳水扁這個進行特赦那在\n\n01:34.449 --> 01:52.031\n剛剛的其他委員的這個詢問當中也知道法務部是說到現在為止也沒有收到什麼指示我想請教就是如果按照剛剛次長的說法是不是合法證明是非常快速的可能一個小時之內就可以做好\n\n01:54.656 --> 02:19.673\n我們要接受行政院指示或總統府指示我們要給予這個證明它其實就是一個書面而已它製作的時間不會太長所以就是說可以非常迅速的也許短短的幾分鐘反正它就已經是一個定型化的表格填上一個名字但是它有一個送達的問題\n\n02:20.313 --> 02:32.734\n我們必須要送達給受赦免人因為赦免人法上規定所以另外一個送達之間的問題是好那也就是說最快最慢時間也是24小時之內就可以完畢這樣子一個作業流程\n\n02:35.117 --> 02:53.322\n在這麼樣子的這個就是按照剛剛的說法其實你們的作業是絕對來得及的就算是蔡總統她在5月19號才告訴你們說請你們要研議要做這個特赦你們這是在非常短的時間都可以做得到的\n\n02:53.982 --> 03:22.860\n那我接下來我想請教一下這也是今天大家在討論到有關於赦免法第3條的這個問題這個如果說蔡總統會針對陳水扁進行赦免的話那可能會是什麼樣的一個狀態我比較擔心的是說如果說是蔡總統這個依據赦免法第3條的有特殊的情形將罪行都赦免那麼這是不是代表就是陳水扁之後若要出來參選還是有這個可能性的\n\n03:25.153 --> 03:39.102\n跟委員報告：如果罪行都赦免的話那基本上他就他的包括他的此樓公權也會被赦免但至於可不可以參選你要看我們的這個我們的這個那個現行的法規\n\n03:40.483 --> 04:00.817\n對,公正人權罷免法規定它有一些26條它有一些例外的規定不能夠參選但是現在它已經沒有任何的罪行了所以就法律的規定上面來講它是極有可能會參選的不無這個可能性所以這也是在講到就是如果說蔡總統她今天行使這個赦免權的話\n\n04:02.378 --> 04:03.059\n我接下來想要再談的就是\n\n04:21.101 --> 04:38.649\n大家也很關心如果說是特赦是依照社民法第三條的前段的前句的規定就是直免除期刑那麼接下來這個四個案子停審中的四個案子要是不是要回復執行的這個問題剛剛秘書長\n\n04:42.779 --> 04:54.688\n一直在談到有關於這是屬於4個案子4個法官是指他審判核心的問題我想請教秘書長所謂的審判核心沒有界限嗎?法官獨立審判的這個權利難道這個權利沒有節制嗎?沒有界限嗎?這個原則上是這個是屬於審判核心那基於審判獨立由個案成審法官\n\n05:13.042 --> 05:33.856\n您剛說了審判核心、審判獨立那我想請教一下你們司法院自己都有頒布各級法院的辦案期限的實施要點那你們這樣做的這個限期法院法官的辦案的這樣的期限要點難道沒有違憲嗎這沒有侵害到法官的審判獨立嗎審判核心嗎\n\n05:37.112 --> 05:50.442\n那個是就一般通常的情形那陳雪扁的案子有什麼例外的情形嗎這個就回復到就是個案他的個案到底跟別的案子有什麼不同因為\n\n05:51.550 --> 06:09.436\n每個案件它還是會有一些是我必須要講這是一個非常嚴肅的問題這個嚴肅的問題就涉及到大家對於司法的信任對於司法的公信力大家到目前為止非常懷疑是否我們台灣的司法還有公信力說實在話赦免這件事情屬於總統的這個憲法上的權利\n\n06:18.464 --> 06:19.525\n陳水扁從2015年保外就醫至今已經展延了38次\n\n06:44.960 --> 07:05.548\n她的保外就業時間長達9年在這一段牢獄外的生活她可以說是多彩多姿啊她既幫助很多的候選人去參台去站台拉票主持電台節目又開直播演講幫她的兒子陳志忠市議員的競選肇事\n\n07:07.529 --> 07:31.417\n晚會．然後又登記參選不分區的候選人．然後到總統府前面請願．然後幫助他的女兒．擔任他女兒的訴訟律師．還出席新書發表會．參與社友會活動．種種的這些行為表現．比健康人都還更活躍．但是他就有本事．不回到監獄去服刑\n\n07:33.203 --> 07:55.823\n我必須說,法務部、矯正署、台中監獄你們放任受刑人陳水扁在外面逍遙法外利用保外就醫的名義在外面任意的破壞我們司法的程序你們的作為,不客氣的講是台灣司法之恥\n\n07:57.455 --> 08:12.742\n你們還能堅持司法是社會正義的最後一道防線嗎?在你們的眼中還有法律之前人人平等嗎?我真的認為現在的司法人員是怎麼樣?你們的腦中裡面是只有權貴司法嗎?\n\n08:16.462 --> 08:42.289\n不比較還不覺得說陳水扁的這個行徑有多麼的惡劣你們知道在2020年這個所公布的兩公約執行情形第三次的國家報告裡面顯示保外就醫的期間死亡的比例是高達25%也就是有四位保外就醫的這個受刑人有一位可能就會死亡\n\n08:43.666 --> 09:02.846\n那麼回到監獄的人數大概差不多15%左右監察院在2020年的時候其實也曾經做過一個糾正報告也提出這個矯正署也糾正矯正署也就是現在的監獄他啟動保外醫治的材料標準以及空間過於籠統模糊\n\n09:05.008 --> 09:22.935\n常常我們看到非常多的新聞報導有講這個受刑人在獄中都已經快要這個生命非常嚴重了然後才送到醫院去醫治在很短大概一兩月的時間可能就會往生\n\n09:24.864 --> 09:51.976\n相形之下陳水扁今天這樣的行為為什麼我們社會大眾沒有辦法看下去看得下去沒有辦法接受就算他已經太偏離常態了本席在就任立法委員的我發的第一份公文就是給台中監獄請他們要提出去探訪陳水扁的種種的每一次每三個月一次的訪視報告\n\n09:54.232 --> 10:03.060\n有做到嗎提不出來連要求最基本的書面報告也沒有打個電話去問說陳雪碧你好不好種種的行為這個預發和這個矯正署法務部你們對這件事情實在是怠惰你們已經真的把這個司法的這個\n\n10:19.318 --> 10:24.720\n法院是審判機關司法行政機關是執法機關不要忘記你們所作所為代表的都是司法正義法官\n\n10:47.386 --> 11:12.056\n到目前為止那四位法官到目前為止為什麼長期的停審而臺中監獄呢也可以長期的放任陳水扁一直在外保外就醫對大多數的民眾而言是真的早就看不下去了我實在不知道就是你們為什麼這麼樣的放任陳水扁\n\n11:13.308 --> 11:34.041\n我們口口聲聲的希望能夠維持司法獨立維持司法正義可是你們所作所為都是在侵害司法這些年來其實台灣民眾已經對司法的信任度大幅的降低那司法的公信力早已破產\n\n11:35.691 --> 12:01.779\n不客氣的說你們這些執法機關、審判機關難辭其咎我非常期待你們能夠深刻檢討當然接下來還要看是不是真的蔡總統會在他卸任之前特赦陳水扁可是如果他是特赦適指免刑\n\n12:03.052 --> 12:12.325\n的情況之下那4個那接下來4個案子一定要儘速啟動審判否則根本無法向民眾交代好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.793,"end":15.52,"text":"主席好,有請秘書長還有次長委員好次長還有秘書長好"},{"start":19.039,"end":36.071,"text":"剛剛前面幾個委員都已經提到了在我們歷任總統的特赦案件大概有八件那在蔡總統任內到目前為止是有兩件的這個特赦案那麼這兩件特赦案呢分別是在一個這兩件特赦案一個是在20"},{"start":44.735,"end":59.821,"text":"21年針對原住民獵人王光祿的他獵捕野生動物案另外一個則是2022年針對兩位將官因為微博的加菜金可能會違反違法的參費核銷案"},{"start":64.602,"end":88.007,"text":"那麼我們再看看前面幾任總統他們特赦的案件請問在這8個案子當中有哪一個是針對嚴重貪污、舞弊、收賄的案子來進行特赦的?雖然我們現在看到的是報載的新聞那麼蔡總統可能在她卸任之前會針對陳水扁這個進行特赦那在"},{"start":94.449,"end":112.031,"text":"剛剛的其他委員的這個詢問當中也知道法務部是說到現在為止也沒有收到什麼指示我想請教就是如果按照剛剛次長的說法是不是合法證明是非常快速的可能一個小時之內就可以做好"},{"start":114.656,"end":139.673,"text":"我們要接受行政院指示或總統府指示我們要給予這個證明它其實就是一個書面而已它製作的時間不會太長所以就是說可以非常迅速的也許短短的幾分鐘反正它就已經是一個定型化的表格填上一個名字但是它有一個送達的問題"},{"start":140.313,"end":152.734,"text":"我們必須要送達給受赦免人因為赦免人法上規定所以另外一個送達之間的問題是好那也就是說最快最慢時間也是24小時之內就可以完畢這樣子一個作業流程"},{"start":155.117,"end":173.322,"text":"在這麼樣子的這個就是按照剛剛的說法其實你們的作業是絕對來得及的就算是蔡總統她在5月19號才告訴你們說請你們要研議要做這個特赦你們這是在非常短的時間都可以做得到的"},{"start":173.982,"end":202.86,"text":"那我接下來我想請教一下這也是今天大家在討論到有關於赦免法第3條的這個問題這個如果說蔡總統會針對陳水扁進行赦免的話那可能會是什麼樣的一個狀態我比較擔心的是說如果說是蔡總統這個依據赦免法第3條的有特殊的情形將罪行都赦免那麼這是不是代表就是陳水扁之後若要出來參選還是有這個可能性的"},{"start":205.153,"end":219.102,"text":"跟委員報告：如果罪行都赦免的話那基本上他就他的包括他的此樓公權也會被赦免但至於可不可以參選你要看我們的這個我們的這個那個現行的法規"},{"start":220.483,"end":240.817,"text":"對,公正人權罷免法規定它有一些26條它有一些例外的規定不能夠參選但是現在它已經沒有任何的罪行了所以就法律的規定上面來講它是極有可能會參選的不無這個可能性所以這也是在講到就是如果說蔡總統她今天行使這個赦免權的話"},{"start":242.378,"end":243.059,"text":"我接下來想要再談的就是"},{"start":261.101,"end":278.649,"text":"大家也很關心如果說是特赦是依照社民法第三條的前段的前句的規定就是直免除期刑那麼接下來這個四個案子停審中的四個案子要是不是要回復執行的這個問題剛剛秘書長"},{"start":282.779,"end":294.688,"text":"一直在談到有關於這是屬於4個案子4個法官是指他審判核心的問題我想請教秘書長所謂的審判核心沒有界限嗎?法官獨立審判的這個權利難道這個權利沒有節制嗎?沒有界限嗎?這個原則上是這個是屬於審判核心那基於審判獨立由個案成審法官"},{"start":313.042,"end":333.856,"text":"您剛說了審判核心、審判獨立那我想請教一下你們司法院自己都有頒布各級法院的辦案期限的實施要點那你們這樣做的這個限期法院法官的辦案的這樣的期限要點難道沒有違憲嗎這沒有侵害到法官的審判獨立嗎審判核心嗎"},{"start":337.112,"end":350.442,"text":"那個是就一般通常的情形那陳雪扁的案子有什麼例外的情形嗎這個就回復到就是個案他的個案到底跟別的案子有什麼不同因為"},{"start":351.55,"end":369.436,"text":"每個案件它還是會有一些是我必須要講這是一個非常嚴肅的問題這個嚴肅的問題就涉及到大家對於司法的信任對於司法的公信力大家到目前為止非常懷疑是否我們台灣的司法還有公信力說實在話赦免這件事情屬於總統的這個憲法上的權利"},{"start":378.464,"end":379.525,"text":"陳水扁從2015年保外就醫至今已經展延了38次"},{"start":404.96,"end":425.548,"text":"她的保外就業時間長達9年在這一段牢獄外的生活她可以說是多彩多姿啊她既幫助很多的候選人去參台去站台拉票主持電台節目又開直播演講幫她的兒子陳志忠市議員的競選肇事"},{"start":427.529,"end":451.417,"text":"晚會．然後又登記參選不分區的候選人．然後到總統府前面請願．然後幫助他的女兒．擔任他女兒的訴訟律師．還出席新書發表會．參與社友會活動．種種的這些行為表現．比健康人都還更活躍．但是他就有本事．不回到監獄去服刑"},{"start":453.203,"end":475.823,"text":"我必須說,法務部、矯正署、台中監獄你們放任受刑人陳水扁在外面逍遙法外利用保外就醫的名義在外面任意的破壞我們司法的程序你們的作為,不客氣的講是台灣司法之恥"},{"start":477.455,"end":492.742,"text":"你們還能堅持司法是社會正義的最後一道防線嗎?在你們的眼中還有法律之前人人平等嗎?我真的認為現在的司法人員是怎麼樣?你們的腦中裡面是只有權貴司法嗎?"},{"start":496.462,"end":522.289,"text":"不比較還不覺得說陳水扁的這個行徑有多麼的惡劣你們知道在2020年這個所公布的兩公約執行情形第三次的國家報告裡面顯示保外就醫的期間死亡的比例是高達25%也就是有四位保外就醫的這個受刑人有一位可能就會死亡"},{"start":523.666,"end":542.846,"text":"那麼回到監獄的人數大概差不多15%左右監察院在2020年的時候其實也曾經做過一個糾正報告也提出這個矯正署也糾正矯正署也就是現在的監獄他啟動保外醫治的材料標準以及空間過於籠統模糊"},{"start":545.008,"end":562.935,"text":"常常我們看到非常多的新聞報導有講這個受刑人在獄中都已經快要這個生命非常嚴重了然後才送到醫院去醫治在很短大概一兩月的時間可能就會往生"},{"start":564.864,"end":591.976,"text":"相形之下陳水扁今天這樣的行為為什麼我們社會大眾沒有辦法看下去看得下去沒有辦法接受就算他已經太偏離常態了本席在就任立法委員的我發的第一份公文就是給台中監獄請他們要提出去探訪陳水扁的種種的每一次每三個月一次的訪視報告"},{"start":594.232,"end":603.06,"text":"有做到嗎提不出來連要求最基本的書面報告也沒有打個電話去問說陳雪碧你好不好種種的行為這個預發和這個矯正署法務部你們對這件事情實在是怠惰你們已經真的把這個司法的這個"},{"start":619.318,"end":624.72,"text":"法院是審判機關司法行政機關是執法機關不要忘記你們所作所為代表的都是司法正義法官"},{"start":647.386,"end":672.056,"text":"到目前為止那四位法官到目前為止為什麼長期的停審而臺中監獄呢也可以長期的放任陳水扁一直在外保外就醫對大多數的民眾而言是真的早就看不下去了我實在不知道就是你們為什麼這麼樣的放任陳水扁"},{"start":673.308,"end":694.041,"text":"我們口口聲聲的希望能夠維持司法獨立維持司法正義可是你們所作所為都是在侵害司法這些年來其實台灣民眾已經對司法的信任度大幅的降低那司法的公信力早已破產"},{"start":695.691,"end":721.779,"text":"不客氣的說你們這些執法機關、審判機關難辭其咎我非常期待你們能夠深刻檢討當然接下來還要看是不是真的蔡總統會在他卸任之前特赦陳水扁可是如果他是特赦適指免刑"},{"start":723.052,"end":732.325,"text":"的情況之下那4個那接下來4個案子一定要儘速啟動審判否則根本無法向民眾交代好謝謝"}]}}}}