{"id":152539,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152539","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7786a6f84a6532c048d9d46a63290bffad847f93a84224faabc25b9e10ac7e4564b1975a5b57293c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"12:35:07 - 12:46:24","影片長度":"00:11:17","會議時間":"2024-05-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「推動國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會（WHA）執行現況」，併請衛生福利部列席，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-15","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-20"},"duration":677,"end_time":"2024-05-15T12:46:24+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-15T12:35:07+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":902,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（12時35分）謝謝主席，我請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["吳部長釗燮：王委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長好。這兩天部長的「林北」要跟你吵到底，引起非常多爭議，我也看到你在媒體受訪時的說法，但部長是用外交部的官方社群平臺來發言。以一個外交部長的身分，用外交部的社群平臺說「林北」一定跟你吵到底，部長，你覺得合適嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：有關於這件事情，我今天早上已經說明過幾次了，就是在上個禮拜五的最後一場媒體茶敘裡面，媒體聯誼會的會長用這個幽默來給我，我也是用幽默的方式來呈現。"],["王委員鴻薇：瞭解，媒體可能跟你開玩笑、給你封號，但是你用外交部的官方社群去講「林北」一定吵到底，你覺得合適嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：有關於……"],["王委員鴻薇：合適不合適？"],["吳部長釗燮：有關於社群媒體的方式，就是social media，這個不是一個正式的管道……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你是在跟大家social？這是官方的社群平臺，不是你個人的社群平臺吧？"],["吳部長釗燮：有關於這個部分，我今天早上已經講過好幾次了，就是媒體對我的這個幽默，我用幽默的方式來回應。"],["王委員鴻薇：媒體可以對你幽默，但是你可以在官方社群平臺這樣放鬆和放肆嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個就是……"],["王委員鴻薇：媒體跟你幽默，OK啊！"],["吳部長釗燮：這就是一個social media上面所呈現的一個幽默。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你覺得很合適？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個就是社群媒體上面所呈現的一個幽默感。"],["王委員鴻薇：你覺得合不合適嘛？你覺得合適你就講合適嘛！"],["吳部長釗燮：我想這個部分……"],["王委員鴻薇：以後大家都比照辦理啊！以後我們的次長也可在官方的社群平臺說「林北」怎樣、「林北」怎樣，對不對？我們女姓就說「恁祖媽」怎樣，可不可以？"],["吳部長釗燮：我想有關……"],["王委員鴻薇：可不可以？"],["吳部長釗燮：我想有關於我們臺灣鄉下，因為我來自鄉下……"],["王委員鴻薇：你不要扯鄉下嘛！"],["吳部長釗燮：這個部分就是……"],["王委員鴻薇：你不要扯鄉下！"],["吳部長釗燮：這個部分就是一般人在稱呼自己的時候，以前我們也有人稱呼自己說是「爺們」，那為什麼「爺們」就可以，「林北」就不行？我想這個方式這樣子不好！"],["王委員鴻薇：公私不分啦！"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有公私不分！"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，這另外再跟你請教。","接下來，520之後你要到國安會擔任秘書長，請問一下，現在新發布的副秘書長林飛帆先生是您推薦的嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：並不是我推薦，但是我知道這個任命的過程，我也認為他非常適才適所。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以在程序上，你是先同意接任國安會秘書長，然後林飛帆您是後來得知他要擔任副秘書長，是吧？"],["吳部長釗燮：是後來得知的，但是我也覺得非常的好。"],["王委員鴻薇：喔，這麼好！請問一下，林飛帆擔任副秘書長，他會負責哪一方面的工作啊？"],["吳部長釗燮：會跟外交方面有關。我們進去之後……"],["王委員鴻薇：他以後負責外交方面？"],["吳部長釗燮：我們進去之後會做一些……"],["王委員鴻薇：全部的外交方面？"],["吳部長釗燮：沒有。"],["王委員鴻薇：哪一方面？"],["吳部長釗燮：我們進去之後會再做一些很細緻的分工。"],["王委員鴻薇：基本上他是負責外交方面？"],["吳部長釗燮：會有外交跟其他方面，因為人數很少，所以必須去做很精密的分工，讓大家的負擔都能夠平均。"],["王委員鴻薇：因為林飛帆先生沒有任何外交、國防，甚至連公務機關的經驗都沒有，所以你認為他可以成為你的得力助手，還幫他「掛保證」？"],["吳部長釗燮：嗯，他在……"],["王委員鴻薇：沒關係啊！既然你要幫他「掛保證」，反正這都有紀錄，你就幫他「掛保證」。"],["吳部長釗燮：他在過去這段時間有到美國的智庫去進修，也有到很多國家去進行演講、進行交流……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你們認為他能勝任，是不是？"],["吳部長釗燮：不只是NGO……"],["王委員鴻薇：能不能？"],["吳部長釗燮：甚至是跟政府部門或者是國會……"],["王委員鴻薇：能不能勝任嘛？你連這句話都不……"],["吳部長釗燮：我認為沒有問題。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，你認為他能勝任，你幫他「掛保證」，對不對？"],["吳部長釗燮：我認為沒有問題。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，這個都是可以留為紀錄的。","接下來要回到外交部現在的問題，上個星期您接受廣播節目的訪問，大家也知道立陶宛正在進行選舉，所以立陶宛總統就拋出說想要把原來我們臺灣辦事處的名稱改成臺北辦事處，我有注意到您在上週接受媒體採訪的時候也「掛保證」說不會改變，是不是？"],["吳部長釗燮：上次是說，依照目前的情勢來看的話，應該是不會改變，因為他們的總統是不涉入內閣權力的，所以……"],["王委員鴻薇：對，我知道，其實我有聽，您有幾個理由……"],["吳部長釗燮：所以總統的發言是一個選舉的發言。"],["王委員鴻薇：你說他們不是總統制等等之類的。","部長，我請教，這是一個非常重要的外交跟政治上的判斷，如果未來極為不幸的，立陶宛在經過這場選舉之後，真的把我們的臺灣辦事處改成臺北辦事處，請問你會不會辭職以示負責？因為我剛剛有講，這是很重要的……"],["吳部長釗燮：這是一個假設性的問題，我相信我們外交部所有同仁都會努力去讓這個事情不會發生，我們甚至是預期到……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你是說以後發生是歸外交部，不干你國安會的事囉？是這樣嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：我們已經預期到他們10月會有國會議員的選舉，國會議員的選舉就是他們重組內閣的時候，針對各個政黨，我們都保持非常密切的聯繫，所以10月……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以10月之後不一定？"],["吳部長釗燮：不是，10月之後應該也不會有問題。"],["王委員鴻薇：我知道你講不會被改變嘛！所以我說，你「掛保證」的事情，你為什麼不敢拿出自己的烏紗帽保證呢？這是很重要的政治判斷耶！你如果覺得它有可能、我們努力，這也是一種說法，可是你說不會被改變啊！你講得這麼斬釘截鐵，所以……"],["吳部長釗燮：我們的努力就是會避免這種事情發生。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你現在不敢講說，假使有這樣子的不幸事情發生，因為我們……"],["吳部長釗燮：你已經說是「假使」了，所以這是hypothetical……"],["王委員鴻薇：我們立陶宛啤酒也喝了、我們立陶宛半導體的技術也送給他們了，我們幾乎都是儘量地配合，在這樣的狀況之下，我們的臺灣辦事處還會被改名！那請問一下，現在你還是外交部長，你都不用負任何政治責任嗎？等到變了以後，是歸外交部的事情，說：已經跟你們講了喔！外交部，請你們用盡力氣！"],["吳部長釗燮：就已經跟委員說了，我們會避免這種事情發生。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以啊！我現在問了，你還是不敢負政治責任！這就是口惠！"],["吳部長釗燮：我們會努力去避免這個事情發生。"],["王委員鴻薇：我們再看下一個，因為最近也討論到我們援助烏克蘭的部分，你們也控告了徐巧芯委員，但是我要就教部長，事實上從111年開始，我們就在援助烏克蘭，111年都是直接性的援助，包含對學校及民生基礎設施、發電機及能源設備等等之類的，到了112年有很大的改變，這些東西統統不是密件，因為這也都是你們提供給我們研究室的資料。也就是在112年的時候，其實就有很多是用第三國的方式去援助烏克蘭，包含我們跟波蘭的合作、包含我們跟立陶宛的合作、包含我們跟捷克的合作。如果以111年看起來，事實上我們是可以直接去援助烏克蘭的，到了112年，我們就跟第三國合作，那麼請問一下，如果我們可以直接援助烏克蘭，為什麼要經過第三國？這是第一個問題。","第二個問題是，我們跟波蘭、跟立陶宛、跟捷克的合作，其實並不會成為機密，我剛剛講了，這些東西都是你們提供給我們的。好！當時你們說徐巧芯委員洩漏密件有危及國家外交的問題呢？說是因為這樣會給捷克帶來困擾。那麼徐巧芯委員也特別提出來了，3月底捷克的官方期刊就已經登載出相關的計畫，所以第一個，捷克根本不覺得困擾。第二個，如果今天你擔心捷克發生困擾，那立陶宛會不會困擾呢？波蘭會不會困擾呢？顯然你們也不擔心他們困擾，然後也把這樣的計畫提供給我們。所以請教一下，為什麼徐巧芯所提供的要成為密件？看不出它何密之有啊！你們所提出來的援助烏克蘭計畫，我們早就在做，而且你們根本是敲鑼打鼓地在做！還有一個是透過第三國，第三國他們都沒有在擔心這些事情，然後你們用這個理由來說這個是密件！所以現在大家質疑的就是：它到底何密之有？你要把它列為密件呢？請回答！"],["吳部長釗燮：非常謝謝委員提出這些問題，在111年的時候，這些小額的援助是因為我們能夠直接跟這些地方的政府來進行溝通，他們跟我們提出需求之後，是用一般人民的援款以及政府的部分預算來提供給他們，但是涉及烏克蘭本身還有其他很多地方，我們是沒有辦法reach out的，它就必須要透過烏克蘭周圍這些跟我們也很友好、也很瞭解他們的國家來進行協助。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，那請問一下，徐巧芯委員所提的，你們認為它是密件，到底它何密之有，你們要把它列為密件？"],["吳部長釗燮：這已經說明過了。"],["王委員鴻薇：我剛剛講了，其他第三國也統統都有揭露啊！他們有擔心嗎？"],["吳部長釗燮：這個是不同的方式，也跟委員說明過了。"],["王委員鴻薇：捷克有來抗議說：你們怎麼說我們幫助你呢？對不對？捷克沒有抗議啊！"],["吳部長釗燮：其實如果有注意看到CHTI的執行長前幾天覺得自己被我們國內這些相關人士所誣衊，他感到非常的傷心、感到非常的遺憾，就可以理解到這種說明……"],["王委員鴻薇：他不是針對揭露他協助臺灣援助烏克蘭嘛！他不是在抗議這一點嘛！他有抗議這一點嗎？欸！就事論事！"],["吳部長釗燮：他們不是跟我們抗議，他是就這些事情發表他的看法，但是有關於我們跟捷克或者其他友好國家一起進入烏克蘭，這裡面有涉及到烏克蘭政府態度的問題，所以我們有很多必須用機密的方式處理，請委員瞭解。"],["王委員鴻薇：不過你們不能全部都是密件，如果按照你給我的資料，你們所謂的密件，真的沒有什麼秘密可言啦！"],["吳部長釗燮：但我們也提供給委員了，希望讓委員瞭解。"],["主席：好，謝謝。部長請轉達，CHTI說他們覺得受到誣衊，事實上應該沒有，是他們接收的訊息有問題，所以外交部理當把它說明清楚，好不好？"],["吳部長釗燮：……但是他們……"],["主席：沒關係，因為你剛剛已經公開講了，你剛剛已經公開講了，這非常嚴重，剛剛有講到宏都拉斯，也有講到其他國家，如果我們被其他國家或者跟我們合作的單位覺得有問題的時候，其實還是解釋清楚會比較好。","好，接下來請邱志偉委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":146,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-20","speakers":["馬文君","邱志偉","徐巧芯","羅廷瑋","林楚茵","羅智強","羅美玲","王定宇","陳永康","蘇巧慧","陳冠廷","黃仁","洪申翰","林憶君","沈伯洋","黃秀芳","黃國昌","陳菁徽","王鴻薇","莊瑞雄","李坤城","吳思瑤","郭昱晴","楊瓊瓔","范雲","陳培瑜","王正旭","林月琴","牛煦庭","翁曉玲","葉元之","張雅琳","林思銘"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2024-05-15"],"gazette_id":"1134501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「推動國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會（ 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{\"word\": \"室\", \"start\": 442.835, \"end\": 443.015, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 443.015, \"end\": 443.396, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 443.396, \"end\": 443.416, \"score\": 0.693}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 444.176, \"end\": 464.765, \"text\": \"也就在112年的時候其實我們就很多用第三國的方式去援助烏克蘭包含我們跟波蘭的合作包含我們跟立陶宛的合作包含我們跟捷克的合作那當然其實若以111年看起來我們事實上是可以直接去援助烏克蘭的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 444.176, \"end\": 444.276, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 444.276, \"end\": 444.436, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 444.436, \"end\": 445.417, \"score\": 0.699}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 445.417, \"end\": 445.597, \"score\": 0.613}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 445.597, \"end\": 445.937, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 445.937, \"end\": 446.577, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 446.577, \"end\": 446.857, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 446.857, \"end\": 447.137, \"score\": 0.717}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 447.137, \"end\": 447.297, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 447.297, \"end\": 447.557, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 447.557, \"end\": 447.878, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 447.878, \"end\": 448.178, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 448.178, \"end\": 448.418, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 448.418, \"end\": 448.898, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 448.898, \"end\": 449.058, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 449.058, \"end\": 449.318, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 449.318, \"end\": 449.578, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 449.578, \"end\": 449.818, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"援\", \"start\": 449.818, \"end\": 450.038, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 450.038, \"end\": 450.359, \"score\": 0.589}, {\"word\": \"烏\"}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 450.359, \"end\": 451.239, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"蘭\"}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 451.239, \"end\": 451.439, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"含\", \"start\": 451.439, \"end\": 451.739, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 451.739, \"end\": 452.059, \"score\": 0.646}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 452.059, \"end\": 452.58, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"波\", \"start\": 452.58, \"end\": 452.98, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"蘭\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 452.98, \"end\": 453.12, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 453.12, \"end\": 453.3, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 453.3, \"end\": 453.86, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 453.86, \"end\": 454.04, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"含\", \"start\": 454.04, \"end\": 454.22, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 454.22, \"end\": 454.48, \"score\": 0.685}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 454.48, \"end\": 454.64, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 454.64, \"end\": 454.86, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"陶\", \"start\": 454.86, \"end\": 455.241, \"score\": 0.727}, {\"word\": \"宛\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 455.241, \"end\": 455.361, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 455.361, \"end\": 455.561, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 455.561, \"end\": 456.061, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 456.061, \"end\": 456.201, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"含\", \"start\": 456.201, \"end\": 456.401, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 456.401, \"end\": 456.701, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 456.701, \"end\": 456.961, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"捷\", \"start\": 456.961, \"end\": 457.241, \"score\": 0.695}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 457.241, \"end\": 457.442, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 457.442, \"end\": 457.582, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 457.582, \"end\": 457.802, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 457.802, \"end\": 458.802, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 458.802, \"end\": 459.382, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 459.382, \"end\": 460.523, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 460.523, \"end\": 460.863, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"若\", \"start\": 460.863, \"end\": 461.083, \"score\": 0.631}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 461.083, \"end\": 461.883, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 461.883, \"end\": 462.063, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 462.063, \"end\": 462.304, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 462.304, \"end\": 462.624, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 462.624, \"end\": 462.924, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 462.924, \"end\": 463.104, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 463.104, \"end\": 463.304, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 463.304, \"end\": 463.444, \"score\": 0.629}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 463.444, \"end\": 463.564, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 463.564, \"end\": 463.744, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 463.744, \"end\": 463.964, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 463.964, \"end\": 464.224, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 464.224, \"end\": 464.404, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"援\", \"start\": 464.404, \"end\": 464.625, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 464.625, \"end\": 464.725, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"烏\"}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 464.725, \"end\": 464.745, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"蘭\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 464.745, \"end\": 464.765, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 466.041, \"end\": 488.997, \"text\": \"那到了112年我們就跟了第三國合作那請問一下如果我們可以直接援助烏克蘭為什麼要經過第三國這是第一個問題第二個問題我們跟波蘭跟立陶宛跟捷克其實我們跟他們的合作並不會成為機密我剛講這些東西都是你們所提供給我們的好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 466.041, \"end\": 466.241, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 466.241, \"end\": 466.401, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 466.401, \"end\": 467.302, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 467.302, \"end\": 467.562, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 467.562, \"end\": 467.742, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 467.742, \"end\": 467.902, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 467.902, \"end\": 468.022, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 468.022, \"end\": 468.162, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 468.162, \"end\": 468.323, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 468.323, \"end\": 468.743, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", 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0.89}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 481.552, \"end\": 481.672, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 481.672, \"end\": 481.852, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 481.852, \"end\": 481.952, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 481.952, \"end\": 482.152, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 482.152, \"end\": 483.293, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 483.293, \"end\": 483.893, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 483.893, \"end\": 484.534, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"密\", \"start\": 484.534, \"end\": 484.694, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 484.694, \"end\": 485.694, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 485.694, \"end\": 486.135, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"西\", \"start\": 486.135, \"end\": 486.495, 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\"望\", \"start\": 666.34, \"end\": 666.5, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 666.5, \"end\": 666.58, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 666.58, \"end\": 666.6, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 666.6, \"end\": 666.681, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 666.681, \"end\": 666.701, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,029 --> 00:00:00,129\n王鴻薇議員\n\n2\n00:00:14,025 --> 00:00:40,283\n的臨北要跟你吵到底引起非常多的爭議那我也看到你跟媒體受訪的時候你的說法但是部長你的這個發言是用外交部的官方社群平台來發言所以以一個外交部長的身份用外交部的社群平台說臨北一定跟你吵到底部長你覺得合適嗎\n\n3\n00:00:42,826 --> 00:00:50,333\n有關於這件事情我今天早上已經說明過幾次了就是說在上個禮拜五最後一場的那個媒體查序裡面媒體聯誼會的會長用這個幽默來給我那我也是用幽默的方式來呈現但是你用外交部的官方社群去講林北跟你吵到底你覺得合適嗎\n\n4\n00:01:05,846 --> 00:01:19,238\n有關於那個社群媒體的方式就是socialmedia那這個不是一個正式的管道這是官方的社群平台不是你個人的社群平台吧\n\n5\n00:01:20,225 --> 00:01:36,384\n有關於這個部分我今天早上已經講過好幾次了就是說媒體對我的這個幽默那我用幽默的方式來回應但是你可以在官方社群平台這樣的放鬆跟放肆嗎這就是一個社交媒體上面所呈現的一個幽默\n\n6\n00:01:38,964 --> 00:01:42,548\n這個就是社群媒體上面所呈現的一種默感以後大家都比照顧辦理啊以後我們的次長也可以在官方的那個社群平台拎杯怎樣拎杯怎樣對不對我們女性拎粥啊怎樣可不可以可不可以我想有關於我們台灣鄉下因為我來自鄉下\n\n7\n00:01:58,706 --> 00:02:01,250\n你不要扯鄉下嘛你不要扯鄉下部長你喔就是公私不分啦公私不分公私不分啦好來部長\n\n8\n00:02:15,714 --> 00:02:28,621\n部長在另外再跟你請教接下來520之後你要到國安會擔任秘書長那請問一下現在新發布的副秘書長林飛帆先生是您推薦的嗎\n\n9\n00:02:30,534 --> 00:02:56,841\n並不是我推薦但是我知道這個任命的這個過程我也認為說他非常的自在自說在程序上你是先同意接任國安會秘書長然後林飛帆是後來然後您得知他要擔任副秘書長是吧是後來得知但是我覺得說非常的好請問一下這麼好請問一下林飛帆擔任副秘他會負責哪一方面的工作啊\n\n10\n00:02:58,022 --> 00:02:58,082\n王鴻薇議員\n\n11\n00:03:12,803 --> 00:03:16,705\n所以秘書長林飛帆先生因為他沒有任何的外交、國防甚至連公務機關的經驗都沒有所以你認為他可以成為你的得力助手\n\n12\n00:03:34,853 --> 00:03:47,783\n他在過去這段時間他有到美國的智庫去做進修那他也到很多的國家去進行演講去進行交流甚至是NGO甚至是跟政府部門或者是國會我認為沒有問題\n\n13\n00:03:51,145 --> 00:04:12,480\n你認為他能勝任你幫他掛保證我認為沒有問題因為這個都可以留為記錄的另外一個要回到外交部現在的問題在上個星期您接受廣播節目因為大家也知道立陶宛因為正在進行選舉所以呢立陶宛總統就拋出了一個就是說要把\n\n14\n00:04:13,220 --> 00:04:26,271\n原來的我們的臺灣辦事處的名稱想要把它改成臺北辦事處那麼我有注意到您在上週接受媒體的採訪的時候你也掛保證對不對你也掛保證說不會改變是不是\n\n15\n00:04:29,555 --> 00:04:33,279\n上次是說依照目前的這個情勢來看的話應該是不會改變因為他們的總統是不涉入到那個內閣的這個權利所以總統的這個發言是一個選舉的這個發言\n\n16\n00:04:47,506 --> 00:05:03,551\n部長我請教這個是一個非常重要的外交跟政治上的判斷那麼如果未來極為不幸的立陶宛在經過這場選舉之後那麼真的他把我們的台灣辦事處改成台北辦事處之後請問\n\n17\n00:05:05,111 --> 00:05:18,887\n你會不會辭職以事負責因為我剛剛講這是重要的這是一個假設性的問題我相信我們外交部的所有同仁都會努力去讓這個事情是不會發生的所以你是說以後發生是歸外交部是不敢領國安會的事囉\n\n18\n00:05:20,508 --> 00:05:32,257\n我們已經預期到就是說他們10月會有那個國會議員的選舉那國會議員的選舉就是重組他們的內閣的時候那針對各個政黨我們都保持非常密切的聯繫所以10月之後應該也不會有問題\n\n19\n00:05:35,973 --> 00:05:53,912\n所以啊我知道你講不會被改變嘛那我說你掛保證的事情你為什麼不敢不敢拿你的烏紗帽呢這是很重要的政治判斷欸啊你如果覺得說他有可能我們努力這也是一種說法你說不會被改變啊啊你講得這麼斬釘截鐵\n\n20\n00:05:55,814 --> 00:06:05,858\n所以你現在你現在不敢講說假使假使有這樣子不幸的事情發生因為我們立陶宛我們立陶宛啤酒也喝了我們立陶宛半導體的技術也送給他們了我們幾乎都是盡量的配合在這樣的狀況之下我們的這個台灣辦事處還會被改名那請問一下現在你還是外交部長那你都不要又負任何的政治責任嗎\n\n21\n00:06:24,545 --> 00:06:25,786\n已經跟委員說了我們會避免這種事情發生我們會努力去避免這個事情發生\n\n22\n00:06:45,774 --> 00:07:01,379\n因為最近我們也大概討論到就是我們援助烏克蘭的部分那麼也特別提到因為你們也控告了這個徐巧欣委員但是我要就教於部長了因為我們事實上從111年開始我們就在援助烏克蘭\n\n23\n00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:23,416\n111年呢,都是我們直接性的援助,比如說包含對學校啦,民生基礎設施啦,對發電的這個能源設備等等之類的。到了112年,它有很大的改變。這些東西啊,通通不是秘見,因為這也都是你們提供給我們那個研究室的資料。\n\n24\n00:07:24,176 --> 00:07:44,765\n也就在112年的時候其實我們就很多用第三國的方式去援助烏克蘭包含我們跟波蘭的合作包含我們跟立陶宛的合作包含我們跟捷克的合作那當然其實若以111年看起來我們事實上是可以直接去援助烏克蘭的\n\n25\n00:07:46,041 --> 00:08:08,997\n那到了112年我們就跟了第三國合作那請問一下如果我們可以直接援助烏克蘭為什麼要經過第三國這是第一個問題第二個問題我們跟波蘭跟立陶宛跟捷克其實我們跟他們的合作並不會成為機密我剛講這些東西都是你們所提供給我們的好\n\n26\n00:08:09,597 --> 00:08:31,908\n那當時你們說為什麼徐曉新委員你要這個洩漏密件有什麼有什麼樣的危及國家的外交的問題呢說因為這會給捷克帶來困擾那徐曉新委員他也特別提出來了3月底捷克的官方的他的期刊就已經登出這個相關的計劃所以第一個捷克根本不覺得困擾第二個\n\n27\n00:08:34,369 --> 00:08:41,292\n如果今天你擔心捷克發生困擾那立陶宛會被困擾呢波蘭會被困擾呢顯然你們也不擔心他困擾然後也提供給我們這樣的計畫所以請教一下為什麼許曉欣所提供的那個要成為密件看不出他有何密之有啊你們所提出來的源自烏克蘭我們早就在做你們根本挑鑼打鼓的在做第二個透過第三國\n\n28\n00:09:02,042 --> 00:09:02,162\n請回答\n\n29\n00:09:16,755 --> 00:09:37,463\n非常謝謝委員所提出來的這些問題在111億年的時候這些小額的援助是因為我們能夠直接跟這些地方的政府來進行溝通那他們跟我們提出需求之後那時候用一般人民的這個援款以及政府的部分的這個預算來提供給他們\n\n30\n00:09:38,243 --> 00:10:06,256\n那但是涉及到那個烏克蘭本身還有其他很多的這個地方我們是沒有辦法reachout而他就必須要透過那個烏克蘭周圍這些跟我們也很友好也很了解他們的這些國家來進行協助好那請問一下徐曉鑫委員所你們認為他是密件到底他何密自有你們要把他列入密件我剛講我們其他第三國通通也都有揭露啊他們有擔心嗎\n\n31\n00:10:09,657 --> 00:10:30,289\n傑克有來抗議說你們怎麼說我們幫助你呢?對不對?傑克沒有抗議啊!其實如果說注意看到CHTI的執行長在前幾天他覺得說他被我們國內的這些相關的人士所污蔑還感到非常的傷心感到非常的遺憾\n\n32\n00:10:30,609 --> 00:10:32,511\n他不是針對說揭露他協助台灣來援助烏克蘭嗎?他不是在抗議這一點嗎?他有抗議這一點嗎?就是論事,對不對?\n\n33\n00:10:45,987 --> 00:10:46,167\n請委員瞭解\n\n34\n00:11:04,918 --> 00:11:06,701\n我們也提供給委員的希望能夠讓委員來了解\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n29\t129\t王鴻薇議員\n14025\t40283\t的臨北要跟你吵到底引起非常多的爭議那我也看到你跟媒體受訪的時候你的說法但是部長你的這個發言是用外交部的官方社群平台來發言所以以一個外交部長的身份用外交部的社群平台說臨北一定跟你吵到底部長你覺得合適嗎\n42826\t50333\t有關於這件事情我今天早上已經說明過幾次了就是說在上個禮拜五最後一場的那個媒體查序裡面媒體聯誼會的會長用這個幽默來給我那我也是用幽默的方式來呈現但是你用外交部的官方社群去講林北跟你吵到底你覺得合適嗎\n65846\t79238\t有關於那個社群媒體的方式就是social media那這個不是一個正式的管道這是官方的社群平台不是你個人的社群平台吧\n80225\t96384\t有關於這個部分我今天早上已經講過好幾次了就是說媒體對我的這個幽默那我用幽默的方式來回應但是你可以在官方社群平台這樣的放鬆跟放肆嗎這就是一個社交媒體上面所呈現的一個幽默\n98964\t102548\t這個就是社群媒體上面所呈現的一種默感以後大家都比照顧辦理啊以後我們的次長也可以在官方的那個社群平台拎杯怎樣拎杯怎樣對不對我們女性拎粥啊怎樣可不可以可不可以我想有關於我們台灣鄉下因為我來自鄉下\n118706\t121250\t你不要扯鄉下嘛你不要扯鄉下部長你喔就是公私不分啦公私不分公私不分啦好來部長\n135714\t148621\t部長在另外再跟你請教接下來520之後你要到國安會擔任秘書長那請問一下現在新發布的副秘書長林飛帆先生是您推薦的嗎\n150534\t176841\t並不是我推薦但是我知道這個任命的這個過程我也認為說他非常的自在自說在程序上你是先同意接任國安會秘書長然後林飛帆是後來然後您得知他要擔任副秘書長是吧是後來得知但是我覺得說非常的好請問一下這麼好請問一下林飛帆擔任副秘他會負責哪一方面的工作啊\n178022\t178082\t王鴻薇議員\n192803\t196705\t所以秘書長林飛帆先生因為他沒有任何的外交、國防甚至連公務機關的經驗都沒有所以你認為他可以成為你的得力助手\n214853\t227783\t他在過去這段時間他有到美國的智庫去做進修那他也到很多的國家去進行演講去進行交流甚至是NGO甚至是跟政府部門或者是國會我認為沒有問題\n231145\t252480\t你認為他能勝任你幫他掛保證我認為沒有問題因為這個都可以留為記錄的另外一個要回到外交部現在的問題在上個星期您接受廣播節目因為大家也知道立陶宛因為正在進行選舉所以呢立陶宛總統就拋出了一個就是說要把\n253220\t266271\t原來的我們的臺灣辦事處的名稱想要把它改成臺北辦事處那麼我有注意到您在上週接受媒體的採訪的時候你也掛保證對不對你也掛保證說不會改變是不是\n269555\t273279\t上次是說依照目前的這個情勢來看的話應該是不會改變因為他們的總統是不涉入到那個內閣的這個權利所以總統的這個發言是一個選舉的這個發言\n287506\t303551\t部長我請教這個是一個非常重要的外交跟政治上的判斷那麼如果未來極為不幸的立陶宛在經過這場選舉之後那麼真的他把我們的台灣辦事處改成台北辦事處之後請問\n305111\t318887\t你會不會辭職以事負責因為我剛剛講這是重要的這是一個假設性的問題我相信我們外交部的所有同仁都會努力去讓這個事情是不會發生的所以你是說以後發生是歸外交部是不敢領國安會的事囉\n320508\t332257\t我們已經預期到就是說他們10月會有那個國會議員的選舉那國會議員的選舉就是重組他們的內閣的時候那針對各個政黨我們都保持非常密切的聯繫所以10月之後應該也不會有問題\n335973\t353912\t所以啊我知道你講不會被改變嘛那我說你掛保證的事情你為什麼不敢不敢拿你的烏紗帽呢這是很重要的政治判斷欸啊你如果覺得說他有可能我們努力這也是一種說法你說不會被改變啊啊你講得這麼斬釘截鐵\n355814\t365858\t所以你現在你現在不敢講說假使假使有這樣子不幸的事情發生因為我們立陶宛我們立陶宛啤酒也喝了我們立陶宛半導體的技術也送給他們了我們幾乎都是盡量的配合在這樣的狀況之下我們的這個台灣辦事處還會被改名那請問一下現在你還是外交部長那你都不要又負任何的政治責任嗎\n384545\t385786\t已經跟委員說了我們會避免這種事情發生我們會努力去避免這個事情發生\n405774\t421379\t因為最近我們也大概討論到就是我們援助烏克蘭的部分那麼也特別提到因為你們也控告了這個徐巧欣委員但是我要就教於部長了因為我們事實上從111年開始我們就在援助烏克蘭\n423240\t443416\t111年呢,都是我們直接性的援助,比如說包含對學校啦,民生基礎設施啦,對發電的這個能源設備等等之類的。到了112年,它有很大的改變。這些東西啊,通通不是秘見,因為這也都是你們提供給我們那個研究室的資料。\n444176\t464765\t也就在112年的時候其實我們就很多用第三國的方式去援助烏克蘭包含我們跟波蘭的合作包含我們跟立陶宛的合作包含我們跟捷克的合作那當然其實若以111年看起來我們事實上是可以直接去援助烏克蘭的\n466041\t488997\t那到了112年我們就跟了第三國合作那請問一下如果我們可以直接援助烏克蘭為什麼要經過第三國這是第一個問題第二個問題我們跟波蘭跟立陶宛跟捷克其實我們跟他們的合作並不會成為機密我剛講這些東西都是你們所提供給我們的好\n489597\t511908\t那當時你們說為什麼徐曉新委員你要這個洩漏密件有什麼有什麼樣的危及國家的外交的問題呢說因為這會給捷克帶來困擾那徐曉新委員他也特別提出來了3月底捷克的官方的他的期刊就已經登出這個相關的計劃所以第一個捷克根本不覺得困擾第二個\n514369\t521292\t如果今天你擔心捷克發生困擾那立陶宛會被困擾呢波蘭會被困擾呢顯然你們也不擔心他困擾然後也提供給我們這樣的計畫所以請教一下為什麼許曉欣所提供的那個要成為密件看不出他有何密之有啊你們所提出來的源自烏克蘭我們早就在做你們根本挑鑼打鼓的在做第二個透過第三國\n542042\t542162\t請回答\n556755\t577463\t非常謝謝委員所提出來的這些問題在111億年的時候這些小額的援助是因為我們能夠直接跟這些地方的政府來進行溝通那他們跟我們提出需求之後那時候用一般人民的這個援款以及政府的部分的這個預算來提供給他們\n578243\t606256\t那但是涉及到那個烏克蘭本身還有其他很多的這個地方我們是沒有辦法reach out而他就必須要透過那個烏克蘭周圍這些跟我們也很友好也很了解他們的這些國家來進行協助好那請問一下徐曉鑫委員所你們認為他是密件到底他何密自有你們要把他列入密件我剛講我們其他第三國通通也都有揭露啊他們有擔心嗎\n609657\t630289\t傑克有來抗議說你們怎麼說我們幫助你呢?對不對?傑克沒有抗議啊!其實如果說注意看到CHTI的執行長在前幾天他覺得說他被我們國內的這些相關的人士所污蔑還感到非常的傷心感到非常的遺憾\n630609\t632511\t他不是針對說揭露他協助台灣來援助烏克蘭嗎?他不是在抗議這一點嗎?他有抗議這一點嗎?就是論事,對不對?\n645987\t646167\t請委員瞭解\n664918\t666701\t我們也提供給委員的希望能夠讓委員來了解\n","txt":"王鴻薇議員\n的臨北要跟你吵到底引起非常多的爭議那我也看到你跟媒體受訪的時候你的說法但是部長你的這個發言是用外交部的官方社群平台來發言所以以一個外交部長的身份用外交部的社群平台說臨北一定跟你吵到底部長你覺得合適嗎\n有關於這件事情我今天早上已經說明過幾次了就是說在上個禮拜五最後一場的那個媒體查序裡面媒體聯誼會的會長用這個幽默來給我那我也是用幽默的方式來呈現但是你用外交部的官方社群去講林北跟你吵到底你覺得合適嗎\n有關於那個社群媒體的方式就是social media那這個不是一個正式的管道這是官方的社群平台不是你個人的社群平台吧\n有關於這個部分我今天早上已經講過好幾次了就是說媒體對我的這個幽默那我用幽默的方式來回應但是你可以在官方社群平台這樣的放鬆跟放肆嗎這就是一個社交媒體上面所呈現的一個幽默\n這個就是社群媒體上面所呈現的一種默感以後大家都比照顧辦理啊以後我們的次長也可以在官方的那個社群平台拎杯怎樣拎杯怎樣對不對我們女性拎粥啊怎樣可不可以可不可以我想有關於我們台灣鄉下因為我來自鄉下\n你不要扯鄉下嘛你不要扯鄉下部長你喔就是公私不分啦公私不分公私不分啦好來部長\n部長在另外再跟你請教接下來520之後你要到國安會擔任秘書長那請問一下現在新發布的副秘書長林飛帆先生是您推薦的嗎\n並不是我推薦但是我知道這個任命的這個過程我也認為說他非常的自在自說在程序上你是先同意接任國安會秘書長然後林飛帆是後來然後您得知他要擔任副秘書長是吧是後來得知但是我覺得說非常的好請問一下這麼好請問一下林飛帆擔任副秘他會負責哪一方面的工作啊\n王鴻薇議員\n所以秘書長林飛帆先生因為他沒有任何的外交、國防甚至連公務機關的經驗都沒有所以你認為他可以成為你的得力助手\n他在過去這段時間他有到美國的智庫去做進修那他也到很多的國家去進行演講去進行交流甚至是NGO甚至是跟政府部門或者是國會我認為沒有問題\n你認為他能勝任你幫他掛保證我認為沒有問題因為這個都可以留為記錄的另外一個要回到外交部現在的問題在上個星期您接受廣播節目因為大家也知道立陶宛因為正在進行選舉所以呢立陶宛總統就拋出了一個就是說要把\n原來的我們的臺灣辦事處的名稱想要把它改成臺北辦事處那麼我有注意到您在上週接受媒體的採訪的時候你也掛保證對不對你也掛保證說不會改變是不是\n上次是說依照目前的這個情勢來看的話應該是不會改變因為他們的總統是不涉入到那個內閣的這個權利所以總統的這個發言是一個選舉的這個發言\n部長我請教這個是一個非常重要的外交跟政治上的判斷那麼如果未來極為不幸的立陶宛在經過這場選舉之後那麼真的他把我們的台灣辦事處改成台北辦事處之後請問\n你會不會辭職以事負責因為我剛剛講這是重要的這是一個假設性的問題我相信我們外交部的所有同仁都會努力去讓這個事情是不會發生的所以你是說以後發生是歸外交部是不敢領國安會的事囉\n我們已經預期到就是說他們10月會有那個國會議員的選舉那國會議員的選舉就是重組他們的內閣的時候那針對各個政黨我們都保持非常密切的聯繫所以10月之後應該也不會有問題\n所以啊我知道你講不會被改變嘛那我說你掛保證的事情你為什麼不敢不敢拿你的烏紗帽呢這是很重要的政治判斷欸啊你如果覺得說他有可能我們努力這也是一種說法你說不會被改變啊啊你講得這麼斬釘截鐵\n所以你現在你現在不敢講說假使假使有這樣子不幸的事情發生因為我們立陶宛我們立陶宛啤酒也喝了我們立陶宛半導體的技術也送給他們了我們幾乎都是盡量的配合在這樣的狀況之下我們的這個台灣辦事處還會被改名那請問一下現在你還是外交部長那你都不要又負任何的政治責任嗎\n已經跟委員說了我們會避免這種事情發生我們會努力去避免這個事情發生\n因為最近我們也大概討論到就是我們援助烏克蘭的部分那麼也特別提到因為你們也控告了這個徐巧欣委員但是我要就教於部長了因為我們事實上從111年開始我們就在援助烏克蘭\n111年呢,都是我們直接性的援助,比如說包含對學校啦,民生基礎設施啦,對發電的這個能源設備等等之類的。到了112年,它有很大的改變。這些東西啊,通通不是秘見,因為這也都是你們提供給我們那個研究室的資料。\n也就在112年的時候其實我們就很多用第三國的方式去援助烏克蘭包含我們跟波蘭的合作包含我們跟立陶宛的合作包含我們跟捷克的合作那當然其實若以111年看起來我們事實上是可以直接去援助烏克蘭的\n那到了112年我們就跟了第三國合作那請問一下如果我們可以直接援助烏克蘭為什麼要經過第三國這是第一個問題第二個問題我們跟波蘭跟立陶宛跟捷克其實我們跟他們的合作並不會成為機密我剛講這些東西都是你們所提供給我們的好\n那當時你們說為什麼徐曉新委員你要這個洩漏密件有什麼有什麼樣的危及國家的外交的問題呢說因為這會給捷克帶來困擾那徐曉新委員他也特別提出來了3月底捷克的官方的他的期刊就已經登出這個相關的計劃所以第一個捷克根本不覺得困擾第二個\n如果今天你擔心捷克發生困擾那立陶宛會被困擾呢波蘭會被困擾呢顯然你們也不擔心他困擾然後也提供給我們這樣的計畫所以請教一下為什麼許曉欣所提供的那個要成為密件看不出他有何密之有啊你們所提出來的源自烏克蘭我們早就在做你們根本挑鑼打鼓的在做第二個透過第三國\n請回答\n非常謝謝委員所提出來的這些問題在111億年的時候這些小額的援助是因為我們能夠直接跟這些地方的政府來進行溝通那他們跟我們提出需求之後那時候用一般人民的這個援款以及政府的部分的這個預算來提供給他們\n那但是涉及到那個烏克蘭本身還有其他很多的這個地方我們是沒有辦法reach out而他就必須要透過那個烏克蘭周圍這些跟我們也很友好也很了解他們的這些國家來進行協助好那請問一下徐曉鑫委員所你們認為他是密件到底他何密自有你們要把他列入密件我剛講我們其他第三國通通也都有揭露啊他們有擔心嗎\n傑克有來抗議說你們怎麼說我們幫助你呢?對不對?傑克沒有抗議啊!其實如果說注意看到CHTI的執行長在前幾天他覺得說他被我們國內的這些相關的人士所污蔑還感到非常的傷心感到非常的遺憾\n他不是針對說揭露他協助台灣來援助烏克蘭嗎?他不是在抗議這一點嗎?他有抗議這一點嗎?就是論事,對不對?\n請委員瞭解\n我們也提供給委員的希望能夠讓委員來了解\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.029 --> 00:00.129\n王鴻薇議員\n\n00:14.025 --> 00:40.283\n的臨北要跟你吵到底引起非常多的爭議那我也看到你跟媒體受訪的時候你的說法但是部長你的這個發言是用外交部的官方社群平台來發言所以以一個外交部長的身份用外交部的社群平台說臨北一定跟你吵到底部長你覺得合適嗎\n\n00:42.826 --> 00:50.333\n有關於這件事情我今天早上已經說明過幾次了就是說在上個禮拜五最後一場的那個媒體查序裡面媒體聯誼會的會長用這個幽默來給我那我也是用幽默的方式來呈現但是你用外交部的官方社群去講林北跟你吵到底你覺得合適嗎\n\n01:05.846 --> 01:19.238\n有關於那個社群媒體的方式就是socialmedia那這個不是一個正式的管道這是官方的社群平台不是你個人的社群平台吧\n\n01:20.225 --> 01:36.384\n有關於這個部分我今天早上已經講過好幾次了就是說媒體對我的這個幽默那我用幽默的方式來回應但是你可以在官方社群平台這樣的放鬆跟放肆嗎這就是一個社交媒體上面所呈現的一個幽默\n\n01:38.964 --> 01:42.548\n這個就是社群媒體上面所呈現的一種默感以後大家都比照顧辦理啊以後我們的次長也可以在官方的那個社群平台拎杯怎樣拎杯怎樣對不對我們女性拎粥啊怎樣可不可以可不可以我想有關於我們台灣鄉下因為我來自鄉下\n\n01:58.706 --> 02:01.250\n你不要扯鄉下嘛你不要扯鄉下部長你喔就是公私不分啦公私不分公私不分啦好來部長\n\n02:15.714 --> 02:28.621\n部長在另外再跟你請教接下來520之後你要到國安會擔任秘書長那請問一下現在新發布的副秘書長林飛帆先生是您推薦的嗎\n\n02:30.534 --> 02:56.841\n並不是我推薦但是我知道這個任命的這個過程我也認為說他非常的自在自說在程序上你是先同意接任國安會秘書長然後林飛帆是後來然後您得知他要擔任副秘書長是吧是後來得知但是我覺得說非常的好請問一下這麼好請問一下林飛帆擔任副秘他會負責哪一方面的工作啊\n\n02:58.022 --> 02:58.082\n王鴻薇議員\n\n03:12.803 --> 03:16.705\n所以秘書長林飛帆先生因為他沒有任何的外交、國防甚至連公務機關的經驗都沒有所以你認為他可以成為你的得力助手\n\n03:34.853 --> 03:47.783\n他在過去這段時間他有到美國的智庫去做進修那他也到很多的國家去進行演講去進行交流甚至是NGO甚至是跟政府部門或者是國會我認為沒有問題\n\n03:51.145 --> 04:12.480\n你認為他能勝任你幫他掛保證我認為沒有問題因為這個都可以留為記錄的另外一個要回到外交部現在的問題在上個星期您接受廣播節目因為大家也知道立陶宛因為正在進行選舉所以呢立陶宛總統就拋出了一個就是說要把\n\n04:13.220 --> 04:26.271\n原來的我們的臺灣辦事處的名稱想要把它改成臺北辦事處那麼我有注意到您在上週接受媒體的採訪的時候你也掛保證對不對你也掛保證說不會改變是不是\n\n04:29.555 --> 04:33.279\n上次是說依照目前的這個情勢來看的話應該是不會改變因為他們的總統是不涉入到那個內閣的這個權利所以總統的這個發言是一個選舉的這個發言\n\n04:47.506 --> 05:03.551\n部長我請教這個是一個非常重要的外交跟政治上的判斷那麼如果未來極為不幸的立陶宛在經過這場選舉之後那麼真的他把我們的台灣辦事處改成台北辦事處之後請問\n\n05:05.111 --> 05:18.887\n你會不會辭職以事負責因為我剛剛講這是重要的這是一個假設性的問題我相信我們外交部的所有同仁都會努力去讓這個事情是不會發生的所以你是說以後發生是歸外交部是不敢領國安會的事囉\n\n05:20.508 --> 05:32.257\n我們已經預期到就是說他們10月會有那個國會議員的選舉那國會議員的選舉就是重組他們的內閣的時候那針對各個政黨我們都保持非常密切的聯繫所以10月之後應該也不會有問題\n\n05:35.973 --> 05:53.912\n所以啊我知道你講不會被改變嘛那我說你掛保證的事情你為什麼不敢不敢拿你的烏紗帽呢這是很重要的政治判斷欸啊你如果覺得說他有可能我們努力這也是一種說法你說不會被改變啊啊你講得這麼斬釘截鐵\n\n05:55.814 --> 06:05.858\n所以你現在你現在不敢講說假使假使有這樣子不幸的事情發生因為我們立陶宛我們立陶宛啤酒也喝了我們立陶宛半導體的技術也送給他們了我們幾乎都是盡量的配合在這樣的狀況之下我們的這個台灣辦事處還會被改名那請問一下現在你還是外交部長那你都不要又負任何的政治責任嗎\n\n06:24.545 --> 06:25.786\n已經跟委員說了我們會避免這種事情發生我們會努力去避免這個事情發生\n\n06:45.774 --> 07:01.379\n因為最近我們也大概討論到就是我們援助烏克蘭的部分那麼也特別提到因為你們也控告了這個徐巧欣委員但是我要就教於部長了因為我們事實上從111年開始我們就在援助烏克蘭\n\n07:03.240 --> 07:23.416\n111年呢,都是我們直接性的援助,比如說包含對學校啦,民生基礎設施啦,對發電的這個能源設備等等之類的。到了112年,它有很大的改變。這些東西啊,通通不是秘見,因為這也都是你們提供給我們那個研究室的資料。\n\n07:24.176 --> 07:44.765\n也就在112年的時候其實我們就很多用第三國的方式去援助烏克蘭包含我們跟波蘭的合作包含我們跟立陶宛的合作包含我們跟捷克的合作那當然其實若以111年看起來我們事實上是可以直接去援助烏克蘭的\n\n07:46.041 --> 08:08.997\n那到了112年我們就跟了第三國合作那請問一下如果我們可以直接援助烏克蘭為什麼要經過第三國這是第一個問題第二個問題我們跟波蘭跟立陶宛跟捷克其實我們跟他們的合作並不會成為機密我剛講這些東西都是你們所提供給我們的好\n\n08:09.597 --> 08:31.908\n那當時你們說為什麼徐曉新委員你要這個洩漏密件有什麼有什麼樣的危及國家的外交的問題呢說因為這會給捷克帶來困擾那徐曉新委員他也特別提出來了3月底捷克的官方的他的期刊就已經登出這個相關的計劃所以第一個捷克根本不覺得困擾第二個\n\n08:34.369 --> 08:41.292\n如果今天你擔心捷克發生困擾那立陶宛會被困擾呢波蘭會被困擾呢顯然你們也不擔心他困擾然後也提供給我們這樣的計畫所以請教一下為什麼許曉欣所提供的那個要成為密件看不出他有何密之有啊你們所提出來的源自烏克蘭我們早就在做你們根本挑鑼打鼓的在做第二個透過第三國\n\n09:02.042 --> 09:02.162\n請回答\n\n09:16.755 --> 09:37.463\n非常謝謝委員所提出來的這些問題在111億年的時候這些小額的援助是因為我們能夠直接跟這些地方的政府來進行溝通那他們跟我們提出需求之後那時候用一般人民的這個援款以及政府的部分的這個預算來提供給他們\n\n09:38.243 --> 10:06.256\n那但是涉及到那個烏克蘭本身還有其他很多的這個地方我們是沒有辦法reachout而他就必須要透過那個烏克蘭周圍這些跟我們也很友好也很了解他們的這些國家來進行協助好那請問一下徐曉鑫委員所你們認為他是密件到底他何密自有你們要把他列入密件我剛講我們其他第三國通通也都有揭露啊他們有擔心嗎\n\n10:09.657 --> 10:30.289\n傑克有來抗議說你們怎麼說我們幫助你呢?對不對?傑克沒有抗議啊!其實如果說注意看到CHTI的執行長在前幾天他覺得說他被我們國內的這些相關的人士所污蔑還感到非常的傷心感到非常的遺憾\n\n10:30.609 --> 10:32.511\n他不是針對說揭露他協助台灣來援助烏克蘭嗎?他不是在抗議這一點嗎?他有抗議這一點嗎?就是論事,對不對?\n\n10:45.987 --> 10:46.167\n請委員瞭解\n\n11:04.918 --> 11:06.701\n我們也提供給委員的希望能夠讓委員來了解\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.029,"end":0.129,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":14.025,"end":40.283,"text":"的臨北要跟你吵到底引起非常多的爭議那我也看到你跟媒體受訪的時候你的說法但是部長你的這個發言是用外交部的官方社群平台來發言所以以一個外交部長的身份用外交部的社群平台說臨北一定跟你吵到底部長你覺得合適嗎"},{"start":42.826,"end":50.333,"text":"有關於這件事情我今天早上已經說明過幾次了就是說在上個禮拜五最後一場的那個媒體查序裡面媒體聯誼會的會長用這個幽默來給我那我也是用幽默的方式來呈現但是你用外交部的官方社群去講林北跟你吵到底你覺得合適嗎"},{"start":65.846,"end":79.238,"text":"有關於那個社群媒體的方式就是social media那這個不是一個正式的管道這是官方的社群平台不是你個人的社群平台吧"},{"start":80.225,"end":96.384,"text":"有關於這個部分我今天早上已經講過好幾次了就是說媒體對我的這個幽默那我用幽默的方式來回應但是你可以在官方社群平台這樣的放鬆跟放肆嗎這就是一個社交媒體上面所呈現的一個幽默"},{"start":98.964,"end":102.548,"text":"這個就是社群媒體上面所呈現的一種默感以後大家都比照顧辦理啊以後我們的次長也可以在官方的那個社群平台拎杯怎樣拎杯怎樣對不對我們女性拎粥啊怎樣可不可以可不可以我想有關於我們台灣鄉下因為我來自鄉下"},{"start":118.706,"end":121.25,"text":"你不要扯鄉下嘛你不要扯鄉下部長你喔就是公私不分啦公私不分公私不分啦好來部長"},{"start":135.714,"end":148.621,"text":"部長在另外再跟你請教接下來520之後你要到國安會擔任秘書長那請問一下現在新發布的副秘書長林飛帆先生是您推薦的嗎"},{"start":150.534,"end":176.841,"text":"並不是我推薦但是我知道這個任命的這個過程我也認為說他非常的自在自說在程序上你是先同意接任國安會秘書長然後林飛帆是後來然後您得知他要擔任副秘書長是吧是後來得知但是我覺得說非常的好請問一下這麼好請問一下林飛帆擔任副秘他會負責哪一方面的工作啊"},{"start":178.022,"end":178.082,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":192.803,"end":196.705,"text":"所以秘書長林飛帆先生因為他沒有任何的外交、國防甚至連公務機關的經驗都沒有所以你認為他可以成為你的得力助手"},{"start":214.853,"end":227.783,"text":"他在過去這段時間他有到美國的智庫去做進修那他也到很多的國家去進行演講去進行交流甚至是NGO甚至是跟政府部門或者是國會我認為沒有問題"},{"start":231.145,"end":252.48,"text":"你認為他能勝任你幫他掛保證我認為沒有問題因為這個都可以留為記錄的另外一個要回到外交部現在的問題在上個星期您接受廣播節目因為大家也知道立陶宛因為正在進行選舉所以呢立陶宛總統就拋出了一個就是說要把"},{"start":253.22,"end":266.271,"text":"原來的我們的臺灣辦事處的名稱想要把它改成臺北辦事處那麼我有注意到您在上週接受媒體的採訪的時候你也掛保證對不對你也掛保證說不會改變是不是"},{"start":269.555,"end":273.279,"text":"上次是說依照目前的這個情勢來看的話應該是不會改變因為他們的總統是不涉入到那個內閣的這個權利所以總統的這個發言是一個選舉的這個發言"},{"start":287.506,"end":303.551,"text":"部長我請教這個是一個非常重要的外交跟政治上的判斷那麼如果未來極為不幸的立陶宛在經過這場選舉之後那麼真的他把我們的台灣辦事處改成台北辦事處之後請問"},{"start":305.111,"end":318.887,"text":"你會不會辭職以事負責因為我剛剛講這是重要的這是一個假設性的問題我相信我們外交部的所有同仁都會努力去讓這個事情是不會發生的所以你是說以後發生是歸外交部是不敢領國安會的事囉"},{"start":320.508,"end":332.257,"text":"我們已經預期到就是說他們10月會有那個國會議員的選舉那國會議員的選舉就是重組他們的內閣的時候那針對各個政黨我們都保持非常密切的聯繫所以10月之後應該也不會有問題"},{"start":335.973,"end":353.912,"text":"所以啊我知道你講不會被改變嘛那我說你掛保證的事情你為什麼不敢不敢拿你的烏紗帽呢這是很重要的政治判斷欸啊你如果覺得說他有可能我們努力這也是一種說法你說不會被改變啊啊你講得這麼斬釘截鐵"},{"start":355.814,"end":365.858,"text":"所以你現在你現在不敢講說假使假使有這樣子不幸的事情發生因為我們立陶宛我們立陶宛啤酒也喝了我們立陶宛半導體的技術也送給他們了我們幾乎都是盡量的配合在這樣的狀況之下我們的這個台灣辦事處還會被改名那請問一下現在你還是外交部長那你都不要又負任何的政治責任嗎"},{"start":384.545,"end":385.786,"text":"已經跟委員說了我們會避免這種事情發生我們會努力去避免這個事情發生"},{"start":405.774,"end":421.379,"text":"因為最近我們也大概討論到就是我們援助烏克蘭的部分那麼也特別提到因為你們也控告了這個徐巧欣委員但是我要就教於部長了因為我們事實上從111年開始我們就在援助烏克蘭"},{"start":423.24,"end":443.416,"text":"111年呢,都是我們直接性的援助,比如說包含對學校啦,民生基礎設施啦,對發電的這個能源設備等等之類的。到了112年,它有很大的改變。這些東西啊,通通不是秘見,因為這也都是你們提供給我們那個研究室的資料。"},{"start":444.176,"end":464.765,"text":"也就在112年的時候其實我們就很多用第三國的方式去援助烏克蘭包含我們跟波蘭的合作包含我們跟立陶宛的合作包含我們跟捷克的合作那當然其實若以111年看起來我們事實上是可以直接去援助烏克蘭的"},{"start":466.041,"end":488.997,"text":"那到了112年我們就跟了第三國合作那請問一下如果我們可以直接援助烏克蘭為什麼要經過第三國這是第一個問題第二個問題我們跟波蘭跟立陶宛跟捷克其實我們跟他們的合作並不會成為機密我剛講這些東西都是你們所提供給我們的好"},{"start":489.597,"end":511.908,"text":"那當時你們說為什麼徐曉新委員你要這個洩漏密件有什麼有什麼樣的危及國家的外交的問題呢說因為這會給捷克帶來困擾那徐曉新委員他也特別提出來了3月底捷克的官方的他的期刊就已經登出這個相關的計劃所以第一個捷克根本不覺得困擾第二個"},{"start":514.369,"end":521.292,"text":"如果今天你擔心捷克發生困擾那立陶宛會被困擾呢波蘭會被困擾呢顯然你們也不擔心他困擾然後也提供給我們這樣的計畫所以請教一下為什麼許曉欣所提供的那個要成為密件看不出他有何密之有啊你們所提出來的源自烏克蘭我們早就在做你們根本挑鑼打鼓的在做第二個透過第三國"},{"start":542.042,"end":542.162,"text":"請回答"},{"start":556.755,"end":577.463,"text":"非常謝謝委員所提出來的這些問題在111億年的時候這些小額的援助是因為我們能夠直接跟這些地方的政府來進行溝通那他們跟我們提出需求之後那時候用一般人民的這個援款以及政府的部分的這個預算來提供給他們"},{"start":578.243,"end":606.256,"text":"那但是涉及到那個烏克蘭本身還有其他很多的這個地方我們是沒有辦法reach out而他就必須要透過那個烏克蘭周圍這些跟我們也很友好也很了解他們的這些國家來進行協助好那請問一下徐曉鑫委員所你們認為他是密件到底他何密自有你們要把他列入密件我剛講我們其他第三國通通也都有揭露啊他們有擔心嗎"},{"start":609.657,"end":630.289,"text":"傑克有來抗議說你們怎麼說我們幫助你呢?對不對?傑克沒有抗議啊!其實如果說注意看到CHTI的執行長在前幾天他覺得說他被我們國內的這些相關的人士所污蔑還感到非常的傷心感到非常的遺憾"},{"start":630.609,"end":632.511,"text":"他不是針對說揭露他協助台灣來援助烏克蘭嗎?他不是在抗議這一點嗎?他有抗議這一點嗎?就是論事,對不對?"},{"start":645.987,"end":646.167,"text":"請委員瞭解"},{"start":664.918,"end":666.701,"text":"我們也提供給委員的希望能夠讓委員來了解"}]}}}}