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 Organization要去執行我們的業務時，他們只要符合他們的法律規範就好，和我們的採購法毫無關連。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，這樣本席就懂了。剩最後一點點的時間，部長，非常謝謝您，您也辛苦了，本席相信臺灣的外交路還很長，如果沒有中共的打壓，我們會走的更順利，但是即便有他們的打壓，我們也一樣要像剛才有一位委員說的，要挺直腰桿，對不對？我們要挺直腰桿繼續走下去。"],["吳部長釗燮：是的，謝謝委員。"],["郭委員昱晴：要記得，本席把迷你烏克蘭手作花送給部長的時候，部長可以tag本席，然後拍個照，本席不會問你有多少人按讚，因為那不重要，本席也不希望有人問那是幾片花瓣，如果沒有幾片就不是你做的，本席不會這麼沒有理智。部長，謝謝你，辛苦了。"],["吳部長釗燮：好，沒有問題，謝謝委員，我會持續努力，謝謝。"],["郭委員昱晴：謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請楊瓊瓔委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":146,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-20","speakers":["馬文君","邱志偉","徐巧芯","羅廷瑋","林楚茵","羅智強","羅美玲","王定宇","陳永康","蘇巧慧","陳冠廷","黃仁","洪申翰","林憶君","沈伯洋","黃秀芳","黃國昌","陳菁徽","王鴻薇","莊瑞雄","李坤城","吳思瑤","郭昱晴","楊瓊瓔","范雲","陳培瑜","王正旭","林月琴","牛煦庭","翁曉玲","葉元之","張雅琳","林思銘"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2024-05-15"],"gazette_id":"1134501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告「推動國際社會聲援我國參與世界衛生大會（ 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00:00:38,332\n部長午安這是我第一次到這個國防外交委員會但也是最後一次在您備詢的時候跟您見面我非常的榮幸好那我想今天大家都聚焦在我們的國防或者是我們的外交的部分那當然我們也知道其實外交部在這幾年當中在您的帶領下辛苦的各位外交部的同仁們大家都做了非常非常多的一些努力讓世界看見台灣讓國際看見台灣台灣已經是一個非常重要的\n\n3\n00:00:39,633 --> 00:00:39,933\n部長知道這是什麼嗎?\n\n4\n00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:29,422\n這是烏克蘭國旗的顏色是這是我手作的我本來今天應該要帶來的但不知道因為會到現在才質詢到您這樣子我本來想要在部長這個最後一次在這個地方然後親手送給您我自己手作的烏克蘭我相信其實不管是民間也好我們臺灣也好對於烏克蘭的援助其實真的都不分任何任何的一個\n\n5\n00:01:30,543 --> 00:01:32,124\n在這次我們的原著的部分其實捷克的特質他們也特別有特別提到\n\n6\n00:01:49,719 --> 00:01:49,919\n臺灣其實真的\n\n7\n00:02:32,018 --> 00:02:40,540\n新闻他们还有实际的事件他们也感到非常非常的伤心那这个部分是不是部长您也可以来说一下\n\n8\n00:02:41,637 --> 00:03:04,781\n的確,我們跟捷克的討論過程當中大家都是很有誠意的希望能夠來協助烏克蘭因為烏克蘭目前在戰亂當中我們在那邊也沒有人能夠實際到所需要的這些地方去看他們缺什麼樣的東西那捷克政府就非常好指定了CHTI這一個機構來作為一個中介的單位\n\n9\n00:03:08,522 --> 00:03:34,325\n那讓他們的人能夠實際到前線去提供這些必要的這些器材資源等等的所以這是一個非常具有誠意的一個合作的項目那但是如果說在這個過程當中被形容為這個可能裡面有貪汙裡面可能有政治利益介入或者是說提供這些不當的政治利益給一些政治人物等等的那我想我們的這些好朋友聽了一定會覺得很難過\n\n10\n00:03:35,843 --> 00:03:56,519\n這其實也阻礙了我們台灣對外的外交的關係的途徑更填了另外一種不同的變數但我們萬萬沒有想到這個變數會出現在立法院那我想特別在針對這個政大選舉政治大學他們這個選舉研究中心特別做的在去年的一個民調\n\n11\n00:03:58,481 --> 00:04:13,629\n其實他們在2月份也公布了這份民調他說61.7%的人其實我們的民眾都認為自己本身就是台灣人只有2.4%的人認為自己是中國人這已經創下整個所有的民調的一個記錄從1992年以來\n\n12\n00:04:17,471 --> 00:04:43,456\n當時認為自己是中國人的是25.5%到現在只剩下2.4%我相信我們都以愛這片土地身為台灣人為榮但我萬萬也沒有想到這2.4%有可能有大部分是在我們立法院當中因為他們前一陣子才去中國嘛那名字被唸反了其實也無所謂好那再來其實我真的要強調的既然我們手上有這份這個叫做\n\n13\n00:04:44,514 --> 00:04:45,695\n這是一個處理的方式,沒有錯\n\n14\n00:05:13,208 --> 00:05:20,767\n好,比比第2會議有113位的立法委員,為什麼唯獨只提告那一位呢?\n\n15\n00:05:21,428 --> 00:05:48,463\n因為我們在那個公眾的媒體上面已經看到了就把整個文件秀出來那這個就是違背了我們當時要把這個文件列密的這個原因我們也認為說這個文件如果說對外來完整透露的話可能會影響到我們跟其他國家之間的這個關係影響到我們去協助烏克蘭甚至是影響到我們的整體的國家利益所以覺得說這個是不能夠再放任下去\n\n16\n00:05:48,883 --> 00:06:03,674\n是所以我們是提告有據對不對是很明顯的違反刑法第132條除了刑法第132條以外是不是還包含國家秘密保護法的部分這個部分是不是也會加入討論\n\n17\n00:06:04,875 --> 00:06:23,153\n我們所看到的公文是以秘來區分所以它這個不是國家機密保護法裡面所定義的機密但是這個已經構成國防以外的秘密所以是違反了刑法第132條\n\n18\n00:06:24,608 --> 00:06:37,992\n我最想要說的是如果有很多其他的委員說這份其實不算秘密文件那為什麼其他人他們不拿出來從來沒有人把這個秘密文件公開過沒有其他的狀況發生也從來沒有過\n\n19\n00:06:40,553 --> 00:06:40,933\n國際合作與關外\n\n20\n00:07:02,782 --> 00:07:13,927\n是,那另外就是很多人在講到所謂的政府採購法在這裡我不知道我的解讀對不對這個政府採購法其實是針對台灣本身的一些財團或者法人嘛是針對台灣嘛是所以其實不適用所謂的外國的團體或法人應該這麼講對不對他們是不適用這樣的部分沒有錯好\n\n21\n00:07:21,630 --> 00:07:45,003\n那我剛剛有特別提到臺灣的醫療的品質其實舉世聞名這也真的是毋庸置疑啦那這次其實我們也希望說在臺灣就所謂的衛生組織或者是在加強所謂的醫療衛生的部分其實已經是全球的一個共識了所以其實包含加入所謂的跨國疾病的一個防治參與積極的參與這個國際的組織也是我們特別在將來\n\n22\n00:07:50,506 --> 00:08:07,641\n現在現階段在我們的外交政策當中其實是非常非常有必要性的那剛剛其實也有委員稍早的時候他有提到他說我們這個秘密文件裡頭是不是有圖利其他的廠商然後或者是說那我又要鼓勵我的這個台灣的廠商\n\n23\n00:08:08,722 --> 00:08:09,403\n我是不曉得那個邏輯在哪裡我可不可以請部長來這邊\n\n24\n00:08:29,478 --> 00:08:54,364\n謝謝委員我這邊簡單的說明一下就是說如果是在國內採購的話當然就是使用我們國內的那個採購相關的法規來處理那但是這個是一個其他國家的這個NGO那他們在採購的時候就必須要符合當地的那個政府的規範那因為這個是在歐洲國家就也必須要去符合歐盟相關的這些規範而且他們的規範是採高標準的\n\n25\n00:08:56,764 --> 00:09:15,570\n那所以當這個當地的non-profitorganization要去執行我們的這個業務的時候那他們只要去符合他們的這個法律規範就好跟我們的採購法是毫無關聯好這樣子我就懂了好那當然最後一點點的時間就是部長在這裡非常謝謝您\n\n26\n00:09:16,510 --> 00:09:16,530\n謝謝委員\n\n27\n00:09:35,888 --> 00:09:36,188\n謝謝委員我會持續努力謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n851\t2917\t謝謝主席 辛苦了 有請部長請部長\n10472\t38332\t部長午安這是我第一次到這個國防外交委員會但也是最後一次在您備詢的時候跟您見面我非常的榮幸好那我想今天大家都聚焦在我們的國防或者是我們的外交的部分那當然我們也知道其實外交部在這幾年當中在您的帶領下辛苦的各位外交部的同仁們大家都做了非常非常多的一些努力讓世界看見台灣讓國際看見台灣台灣已經是一個非常重要的\n39633\t39933\t部長知道這是什麼嗎?\n65280\t89422\t這是烏克蘭國旗的顏色是這是我手作的我本來今天應該要帶來的但不知道因為會到現在才質詢到您這樣子我本來想要在部長這個最後一次在這個地方然後親手送給您我自己手作的烏克蘭我相信其實不管是民間也好我們臺灣也好對於烏克蘭的援助其實真的都不分任何任何的一個\n90543\t92124\t在這次我們的原著的部分其實捷克的特質他們也特別有特別提到\n109719\t109919\t臺灣其實真的\n129360\t151817\t響鐘響鐘\n152018\t160540\t新闻他们还有实际的事件他们也感到非常非常的伤心那这个部分是不是部长您也可以来说一下\n161637\t184781\t的確,我們跟捷克的討論過程當中大家都是很有誠意的希望能夠來協助烏克蘭因為烏克蘭目前在戰亂當中我們在那邊也沒有人能夠實際到所需要的這些地方去看他們缺什麼樣的東西那捷克政府就非常好指定了CHTI這一個機構來作為一個中介的單位\n188522\t214325\t那讓他們的人能夠實際到前線去提供這些必要的這些器材資源等等的所以這是一個非常具有誠意的一個合作的項目那但是如果說在這個過程當中被形容為這個可能裡面有貪汙裡面可能有政治利益介入或者是說提供這些不當的政治利益給一些政治人物等等的那我想我們的這些好朋友聽了一定會覺得很難過\n215843\t236519\t這其實也阻礙了我們台灣對外的外交的關係的途徑更填了另外一種不同的變數但我們萬萬沒有想到這個變數會出現在立法院那我想特別在針對這個政大選舉政治大學他們這個選舉研究中心特別做的在去年的一個民調\n238481\t253629\t其實他們在2月份也公布了這份民調他說61.7%的人其實我們的民眾都認為自己本身就是台灣人只有2.4%的人認為自己是中國人這已經創下整個所有的民調的一個記錄從1992年以來\n257471\t283456\t當時認為自己是中國人的是25.5%到現在只剩下2.4%我相信我們都以愛這片土地身為台灣人為榮但我萬萬也沒有想到這2.4%有可能有大部分是在我們立法院當中因為他們前一陣子才去中國嘛那名字被唸反了其實也無所謂好那再來其實我真的要強調的既然我們手上有這份這個叫做\n284514\t285695\t這是一個處理的方式,沒有錯\n313208\t320767\t好,比比第2會議有113位的立法委員,為什麼唯獨只提告那一位呢?\n321428\t348463\t因為我們在那個公眾的媒體上面已經看到了就把整個文件秀出來那這個就是違背了我們當時要把這個文件列密的這個原因我們也認為說這個文件如果說對外來完整透露的話可能會影響到我們跟其他國家之間的這個關係影響到我們去協助烏克蘭甚至是影響到我們的整體的國家利益所以覺得說這個是不能夠再放任下去\n348883\t363674\t是 所以我們是提告有據 對不對是 很明顯的違反刑法第132條除了刑法第132條以外是不是還包含國家秘密保護法的部分這個部分是不是也會加入討論\n364875\t383153\t我們所看到的公文是以秘來區分所以它這個不是國家機密保護法裡面所定義的機密但是這個已經構成國防以外的秘密所以是違反了刑法第132條\n384608\t397992\t我最想要說的是如果有很多其他的委員說這份其實不算秘密文件那為什麼其他人他們不拿出來從來沒有人把這個秘密文件公開過沒有其他的狀況發生也從來沒有過\n400553\t400933\t國際合作與關外\n422782\t433927\t是,那另外就是很多人在講到所謂的政府採購法在這裡我不知道我的解讀對不對這個政府採購法其實是針對台灣本身的一些財團或者法人嘛是針對台灣嘛是所以其實不適用所謂的外國的團體或法人應該這麼講對不對他們是不適用這樣的部分沒有錯好\n441630\t465003\t那我剛剛有特別提到臺灣的醫療的品質其實舉世聞名這也真的是毋庸置疑啦那這次其實我們也希望說在臺灣就所謂的衛生組織或者是在加強所謂的醫療衛生的部分其實已經是全球的一個共識了所以其實包含加入所謂的跨國疾病的一個防治參與積極的參與這個國際的組織也是我們特別在將來\n470506\t487641\t現在現階段在我們的外交政策當中其實是非常非常有必要性的那剛剛其實也有委員稍早的時候他有提到他說我們這個秘密文件裡頭是不是有圖利其他的廠商然後或者是說那我又要鼓勵我的這個台灣的廠商\n488722\t489403\t我是不曉得那個邏輯在哪裡我可不可以請部長來這邊\n509478\t534364\t謝謝委員我這邊簡單的說明一下就是說如果是在國內採購的話當然就是使用我們國內的那個採購相關的法規來處理那但是這個是一個其他國家的這個NGO那他們在採購的時候就必須要符合當地的那個政府的規範那因為這個是在歐洲國家就也必須要去符合歐盟相關的這些規範而且他們的規範是採高標準的\n536764\t555570\t那所以當這個當地的non-profit organization要去執行我們的這個業務的時候那他們只要去符合他們的這個法律規範就好跟我們的採購法是毫無關聯好這樣子我就懂了好那當然最後一點點的時間就是部長在這裡非常謝謝您\n556510\t556530\t謝謝委員\n575888\t576188\t謝謝委員我會持續努力謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席 辛苦了 有請部長請部長\n部長午安這是我第一次到這個國防外交委員會但也是最後一次在您備詢的時候跟您見面我非常的榮幸好那我想今天大家都聚焦在我們的國防或者是我們的外交的部分那當然我們也知道其實外交部在這幾年當中在您的帶領下辛苦的各位外交部的同仁們大家都做了非常非常多的一些努力讓世界看見台灣讓國際看見台灣台灣已經是一個非常重要的\n部長知道這是什麼嗎?\n這是烏克蘭國旗的顏色是這是我手作的我本來今天應該要帶來的但不知道因為會到現在才質詢到您這樣子我本來想要在部長這個最後一次在這個地方然後親手送給您我自己手作的烏克蘭我相信其實不管是民間也好我們臺灣也好對於烏克蘭的援助其實真的都不分任何任何的一個\n在這次我們的原著的部分其實捷克的特質他們也特別有特別提到\n臺灣其實真的\n響鐘響鐘\n新闻他们还有实际的事件他们也感到非常非常的伤心那这个部分是不是部长您也可以来说一下\n的確,我們跟捷克的討論過程當中大家都是很有誠意的希望能夠來協助烏克蘭因為烏克蘭目前在戰亂當中我們在那邊也沒有人能夠實際到所需要的這些地方去看他們缺什麼樣的東西那捷克政府就非常好指定了CHTI這一個機構來作為一個中介的單位\n那讓他們的人能夠實際到前線去提供這些必要的這些器材資源等等的所以這是一個非常具有誠意的一個合作的項目那但是如果說在這個過程當中被形容為這個可能裡面有貪汙裡面可能有政治利益介入或者是說提供這些不當的政治利益給一些政治人物等等的那我想我們的這些好朋友聽了一定會覺得很難過\n這其實也阻礙了我們台灣對外的外交的關係的途徑更填了另外一種不同的變數但我們萬萬沒有想到這個變數會出現在立法院那我想特別在針對這個政大選舉政治大學他們這個選舉研究中心特別做的在去年的一個民調\n其實他們在2月份也公布了這份民調他說61.7%的人其實我們的民眾都認為自己本身就是台灣人只有2.4%的人認為自己是中國人這已經創下整個所有的民調的一個記錄從1992年以來\n當時認為自己是中國人的是25.5%到現在只剩下2.4%我相信我們都以愛這片土地身為台灣人為榮但我萬萬也沒有想到這2.4%有可能有大部分是在我們立法院當中因為他們前一陣子才去中國嘛那名字被唸反了其實也無所謂好那再來其實我真的要強調的既然我們手上有這份這個叫做\n這是一個處理的方式,沒有錯\n好,比比第2會議有113位的立法委員,為什麼唯獨只提告那一位呢?\n因為我們在那個公眾的媒體上面已經看到了就把整個文件秀出來那這個就是違背了我們當時要把這個文件列密的這個原因我們也認為說這個文件如果說對外來完整透露的話可能會影響到我們跟其他國家之間的這個關係影響到我們去協助烏克蘭甚至是影響到我們的整體的國家利益所以覺得說這個是不能夠再放任下去\n是 所以我們是提告有據 對不對是 很明顯的違反刑法第132條除了刑法第132條以外是不是還包含國家秘密保護法的部分這個部分是不是也會加入討論\n我們所看到的公文是以秘來區分所以它這個不是國家機密保護法裡面所定義的機密但是這個已經構成國防以外的秘密所以是違反了刑法第132條\n我最想要說的是如果有很多其他的委員說這份其實不算秘密文件那為什麼其他人他們不拿出來從來沒有人把這個秘密文件公開過沒有其他的狀況發生也從來沒有過\n國際合作與關外\n是,那另外就是很多人在講到所謂的政府採購法在這裡我不知道我的解讀對不對這個政府採購法其實是針對台灣本身的一些財團或者法人嘛是針對台灣嘛是所以其實不適用所謂的外國的團體或法人應該這麼講對不對他們是不適用這樣的部分沒有錯好\n那我剛剛有特別提到臺灣的醫療的品質其實舉世聞名這也真的是毋庸置疑啦那這次其實我們也希望說在臺灣就所謂的衛生組織或者是在加強所謂的醫療衛生的部分其實已經是全球的一個共識了所以其實包含加入所謂的跨國疾病的一個防治參與積極的參與這個國際的組織也是我們特別在將來\n現在現階段在我們的外交政策當中其實是非常非常有必要性的那剛剛其實也有委員稍早的時候他有提到他說我們這個秘密文件裡頭是不是有圖利其他的廠商然後或者是說那我又要鼓勵我的這個台灣的廠商\n我是不曉得那個邏輯在哪裡我可不可以請部長來這邊\n謝謝委員我這邊簡單的說明一下就是說如果是在國內採購的話當然就是使用我們國內的那個採購相關的法規來處理那但是這個是一個其他國家的這個NGO那他們在採購的時候就必須要符合當地的那個政府的規範那因為這個是在歐洲國家就也必須要去符合歐盟相關的這些規範而且他們的規範是採高標準的\n那所以當這個當地的non-profit organization要去執行我們的這個業務的時候那他們只要去符合他們的這個法律規範就好跟我們的採購法是毫無關聯好這樣子我就懂了好那當然最後一點點的時間就是部長在這裡非常謝謝您\n謝謝委員\n謝謝委員我會持續努力謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.851 --> 00:02.917\n謝謝主席辛苦了有請部長請部長\n\n00:10.472 --> 00:38.332\n部長午安這是我第一次到這個國防外交委員會但也是最後一次在您備詢的時候跟您見面我非常的榮幸好那我想今天大家都聚焦在我們的國防或者是我們的外交的部分那當然我們也知道其實外交部在這幾年當中在您的帶領下辛苦的各位外交部的同仁們大家都做了非常非常多的一些努力讓世界看見台灣讓國際看見台灣台灣已經是一個非常重要的\n\n00:39.633 --> 00:39.933\n部長知道這是什麼嗎?\n\n01:05.280 --> 01:29.422\n這是烏克蘭國旗的顏色是這是我手作的我本來今天應該要帶來的但不知道因為會到現在才質詢到您這樣子我本來想要在部長這個最後一次在這個地方然後親手送給您我自己手作的烏克蘭我相信其實不管是民間也好我們臺灣也好對於烏克蘭的援助其實真的都不分任何任何的一個\n\n01:30.543 --> 01:32.124\n在這次我們的原著的部分其實捷克的特質他們也特別有特別提到\n\n01:49.719 --> 01:49.919\n臺灣其實真的\n\n02:32.018 --> 02:40.540\n新闻他们还有实际的事件他们也感到非常非常的伤心那这个部分是不是部长您也可以来说一下\n\n02:41.637 --> 03:04.781\n的確,我們跟捷克的討論過程當中大家都是很有誠意的希望能夠來協助烏克蘭因為烏克蘭目前在戰亂當中我們在那邊也沒有人能夠實際到所需要的這些地方去看他們缺什麼樣的東西那捷克政府就非常好指定了CHTI這一個機構來作為一個中介的單位\n\n03:08.522 --> 03:34.325\n那讓他們的人能夠實際到前線去提供這些必要的這些器材資源等等的所以這是一個非常具有誠意的一個合作的項目那但是如果說在這個過程當中被形容為這個可能裡面有貪汙裡面可能有政治利益介入或者是說提供這些不當的政治利益給一些政治人物等等的那我想我們的這些好朋友聽了一定會覺得很難過\n\n03:35.843 --> 03:56.519\n這其實也阻礙了我們台灣對外的外交的關係的途徑更填了另外一種不同的變數但我們萬萬沒有想到這個變數會出現在立法院那我想特別在針對這個政大選舉政治大學他們這個選舉研究中心特別做的在去年的一個民調\n\n03:58.481 --> 04:13.629\n其實他們在2月份也公布了這份民調他說61.7%的人其實我們的民眾都認為自己本身就是台灣人只有2.4%的人認為自己是中國人這已經創下整個所有的民調的一個記錄從1992年以來\n\n04:17.471 --> 04:43.456\n當時認為自己是中國人的是25.5%到現在只剩下2.4%我相信我們都以愛這片土地身為台灣人為榮但我萬萬也沒有想到這2.4%有可能有大部分是在我們立法院當中因為他們前一陣子才去中國嘛那名字被唸反了其實也無所謂好那再來其實我真的要強調的既然我們手上有這份這個叫做\n\n04:44.514 --> 04:45.695\n這是一個處理的方式,沒有錯\n\n05:13.208 --> 05:20.767\n好,比比第2會議有113位的立法委員,為什麼唯獨只提告那一位呢?\n\n05:21.428 --> 05:48.463\n因為我們在那個公眾的媒體上面已經看到了就把整個文件秀出來那這個就是違背了我們當時要把這個文件列密的這個原因我們也認為說這個文件如果說對外來完整透露的話可能會影響到我們跟其他國家之間的這個關係影響到我們去協助烏克蘭甚至是影響到我們的整體的國家利益所以覺得說這個是不能夠再放任下去\n\n05:48.883 --> 06:03.674\n是所以我們是提告有據對不對是很明顯的違反刑法第132條除了刑法第132條以外是不是還包含國家秘密保護法的部分這個部分是不是也會加入討論\n\n06:04.875 --> 06:23.153\n我們所看到的公文是以秘來區分所以它這個不是國家機密保護法裡面所定義的機密但是這個已經構成國防以外的秘密所以是違反了刑法第132條\n\n06:24.608 --> 06:37.992\n我最想要說的是如果有很多其他的委員說這份其實不算秘密文件那為什麼其他人他們不拿出來從來沒有人把這個秘密文件公開過沒有其他的狀況發生也從來沒有過\n\n06:40.553 --> 06:40.933\n國際合作與關外\n\n07:02.782 --> 07:13.927\n是,那另外就是很多人在講到所謂的政府採購法在這裡我不知道我的解讀對不對這個政府採購法其實是針對台灣本身的一些財團或者法人嘛是針對台灣嘛是所以其實不適用所謂的外國的團體或法人應該這麼講對不對他們是不適用這樣的部分沒有錯好\n\n07:21.630 --> 07:45.003\n那我剛剛有特別提到臺灣的醫療的品質其實舉世聞名這也真的是毋庸置疑啦那這次其實我們也希望說在臺灣就所謂的衛生組織或者是在加強所謂的醫療衛生的部分其實已經是全球的一個共識了所以其實包含加入所謂的跨國疾病的一個防治參與積極的參與這個國際的組織也是我們特別在將來\n\n07:50.506 --> 08:07.641\n現在現階段在我們的外交政策當中其實是非常非常有必要性的那剛剛其實也有委員稍早的時候他有提到他說我們這個秘密文件裡頭是不是有圖利其他的廠商然後或者是說那我又要鼓勵我的這個台灣的廠商\n\n08:08.722 --> 08:09.403\n我是不曉得那個邏輯在哪裡我可不可以請部長來這邊\n\n08:29.478 --> 08:54.364\n謝謝委員我這邊簡單的說明一下就是說如果是在國內採購的話當然就是使用我們國內的那個採購相關的法規來處理那但是這個是一個其他國家的這個NGO那他們在採購的時候就必須要符合當地的那個政府的規範那因為這個是在歐洲國家就也必須要去符合歐盟相關的這些規範而且他們的規範是採高標準的\n\n08:56.764 --> 09:15.570\n那所以當這個當地的non-profitorganization要去執行我們的這個業務的時候那他們只要去符合他們的這個法律規範就好跟我們的採購法是毫無關聯好這樣子我就懂了好那當然最後一點點的時間就是部長在這裡非常謝謝您\n\n09:16.510 --> 09:16.530\n謝謝委員\n\n09:35.888 --> 09:36.188\n謝謝委員我會持續努力謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.851,"end":2.917,"text":"謝謝主席 辛苦了 有請部長請部長"},{"start":10.472,"end":38.332,"text":"部長午安這是我第一次到這個國防外交委員會但也是最後一次在您備詢的時候跟您見面我非常的榮幸好那我想今天大家都聚焦在我們的國防或者是我們的外交的部分那當然我們也知道其實外交部在這幾年當中在您的帶領下辛苦的各位外交部的同仁們大家都做了非常非常多的一些努力讓世界看見台灣讓國際看見台灣台灣已經是一個非常重要的"},{"start":39.633,"end":39.933,"text":"部長知道這是什麼嗎?"},{"start":65.28,"end":89.422,"text":"這是烏克蘭國旗的顏色是這是我手作的我本來今天應該要帶來的但不知道因為會到現在才質詢到您這樣子我本來想要在部長這個最後一次在這個地方然後親手送給您我自己手作的烏克蘭我相信其實不管是民間也好我們臺灣也好對於烏克蘭的援助其實真的都不分任何任何的一個"},{"start":90.543,"end":92.124,"text":"在這次我們的原著的部分其實捷克的特質他們也特別有特別提到"},{"start":109.719,"end":109.919,"text":"臺灣其實真的"},{"start":129.36,"end":151.817,"text":"響鐘響鐘"},{"start":152.018,"end":160.54,"text":"新闻他们还有实际的事件他们也感到非常非常的伤心那这个部分是不是部长您也可以来说一下"},{"start":161.637,"end":184.781,"text":"的確,我們跟捷克的討論過程當中大家都是很有誠意的希望能夠來協助烏克蘭因為烏克蘭目前在戰亂當中我們在那邊也沒有人能夠實際到所需要的這些地方去看他們缺什麼樣的東西那捷克政府就非常好指定了CHTI這一個機構來作為一個中介的單位"},{"start":188.522,"end":214.325,"text":"那讓他們的人能夠實際到前線去提供這些必要的這些器材資源等等的所以這是一個非常具有誠意的一個合作的項目那但是如果說在這個過程當中被形容為這個可能裡面有貪汙裡面可能有政治利益介入或者是說提供這些不當的政治利益給一些政治人物等等的那我想我們的這些好朋友聽了一定會覺得很難過"},{"start":215.843,"end":236.519,"text":"這其實也阻礙了我們台灣對外的外交的關係的途徑更填了另外一種不同的變數但我們萬萬沒有想到這個變數會出現在立法院那我想特別在針對這個政大選舉政治大學他們這個選舉研究中心特別做的在去年的一個民調"},{"start":238.481,"end":253.629,"text":"其實他們在2月份也公布了這份民調他說61.7%的人其實我們的民眾都認為自己本身就是台灣人只有2.4%的人認為自己是中國人這已經創下整個所有的民調的一個記錄從1992年以來"},{"start":257.471,"end":283.456,"text":"當時認為自己是中國人的是25.5%到現在只剩下2.4%我相信我們都以愛這片土地身為台灣人為榮但我萬萬也沒有想到這2.4%有可能有大部分是在我們立法院當中因為他們前一陣子才去中國嘛那名字被唸反了其實也無所謂好那再來其實我真的要強調的既然我們手上有這份這個叫做"},{"start":284.514,"end":285.695,"text":"這是一個處理的方式,沒有錯"},{"start":313.208,"end":320.767,"text":"好,比比第2會議有113位的立法委員,為什麼唯獨只提告那一位呢?"},{"start":321.428,"end":348.463,"text":"因為我們在那個公眾的媒體上面已經看到了就把整個文件秀出來那這個就是違背了我們當時要把這個文件列密的這個原因我們也認為說這個文件如果說對外來完整透露的話可能會影響到我們跟其他國家之間的這個關係影響到我們去協助烏克蘭甚至是影響到我們的整體的國家利益所以覺得說這個是不能夠再放任下去"},{"start":348.883,"end":363.674,"text":"是 所以我們是提告有據 對不對是 很明顯的違反刑法第132條除了刑法第132條以外是不是還包含國家秘密保護法的部分這個部分是不是也會加入討論"},{"start":364.875,"end":383.153,"text":"我們所看到的公文是以秘來區分所以它這個不是國家機密保護法裡面所定義的機密但是這個已經構成國防以外的秘密所以是違反了刑法第132條"},{"start":384.608,"end":397.992,"text":"我最想要說的是如果有很多其他的委員說這份其實不算秘密文件那為什麼其他人他們不拿出來從來沒有人把這個秘密文件公開過沒有其他的狀況發生也從來沒有過"},{"start":400.553,"end":400.933,"text":"國際合作與關外"},{"start":422.782,"end":433.927,"text":"是,那另外就是很多人在講到所謂的政府採購法在這裡我不知道我的解讀對不對這個政府採購法其實是針對台灣本身的一些財團或者法人嘛是針對台灣嘛是所以其實不適用所謂的外國的團體或法人應該這麼講對不對他們是不適用這樣的部分沒有錯好"},{"start":441.63,"end":465.003,"text":"那我剛剛有特別提到臺灣的醫療的品質其實舉世聞名這也真的是毋庸置疑啦那這次其實我們也希望說在臺灣就所謂的衛生組織或者是在加強所謂的醫療衛生的部分其實已經是全球的一個共識了所以其實包含加入所謂的跨國疾病的一個防治參與積極的參與這個國際的組織也是我們特別在將來"},{"start":470.506,"end":487.641,"text":"現在現階段在我們的外交政策當中其實是非常非常有必要性的那剛剛其實也有委員稍早的時候他有提到他說我們這個秘密文件裡頭是不是有圖利其他的廠商然後或者是說那我又要鼓勵我的這個台灣的廠商"},{"start":488.722,"end":489.403,"text":"我是不曉得那個邏輯在哪裡我可不可以請部長來這邊"},{"start":509.478,"end":534.364,"text":"謝謝委員我這邊簡單的說明一下就是說如果是在國內採購的話當然就是使用我們國內的那個採購相關的法規來處理那但是這個是一個其他國家的這個NGO那他們在採購的時候就必須要符合當地的那個政府的規範那因為這個是在歐洲國家就也必須要去符合歐盟相關的這些規範而且他們的規範是採高標準的"},{"start":536.764,"end":555.57,"text":"那所以當這個當地的non-profit organization要去執行我們的這個業務的時候那他們只要去符合他們的這個法律規範就好跟我們的採購法是毫無關聯好這樣子我就懂了好那當然最後一點點的時間就是部長在這裡非常謝謝您"},{"start":556.51,"end":556.53,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":575.888,"end":576.188,"text":"謝謝委員我會持續努力謝謝主席"}]}}}}