{"id":152551,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152551","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7786a6f84a6532c06b694735a40a384b96869206de9aca73dc2a0f44cf1b72c59930f9bb5cf0ddfa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"12:41:01 - 12:48:05","影片長度":"00:07:04","會議時間":"2024-05-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長率所屬相關單位列席就「總統行使特赦後，該案未沒收之不法所得及停審未定讞案件之處理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-15","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-22"},"duration":424,"end_time":"2024-05-15T12:48:05+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-15T12:41:01+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1034,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（12時41分）謝謝主席。有請法務部次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["黃次長謀信：委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：次長，關於特赦，這本來就是屬於總統的權力，所以總統來行使特赦，依赦免法第三條，當然它有不同的法律效果，因為赦免法第三條也寫得比較含糊，它好像分為兩部分，一部分是可以赦免其刑，如果是在例外狀況的話，可以直接讓它整個宣告無效，所以這個宣告無效是不是代表罪跟刑同時都赦？這個就有很大的法律解釋空間。但是我想當初立法在創造這樣的空間的時候，應該就是要賦予總統有這樣的高度，在面對不同案件的時候，他要行使他的豁免、特赦或者大赦的權力時，這個權力要大到哪邊？次長，我這樣一個對法的認知，你怎麼看呢？"],["黃次長謀信：基本上是贊同委員的意見，我們憲法的確規定大赦、特赦、減刑、復權是總統的特別權限。另外，按照赦免法第三條的規定，他赦免有兩種可能，第一個是免除刑之執行，第二個是罪刑無效，所以的確有這兩種可能性。"],["蔡委員易餘：就是第一個是免除刑的執行嘛？"],["黃次長謀信：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以我想今天主席設定這樣的題目，主要是說，如果我們今天這個特赦只是在於第三條前半段的時候，就是免除刑的執行，也就是現在媒體上一直在講的，叫做除刑不除罪，就是說當時候定讞的判決仍然是存在的，只是他的刑就因為特赦後免除刑的執行。這個免除執行涉及到所謂不法所得的沒收，次長，對於他當時候判的不法所得，你們要怎麼認定？"],["黃次長謀信：確定的判決當然是看判決書上主文所載的沒收範圍，但是無論是哪一種特赦型態，刑之免除也好，罪刑無效也好，它所免除的都是罪或刑，但是沒收本身不是罪也不是刑，它是……"],["蔡委員易餘：對，過去憲法法庭有說，它不是刑罰的一部分……"],["黃次長謀信：對，它也不是刑罰。"],["蔡委員易餘：沒收又是另外一個概念。"],["黃次長謀信：對，它是一個獨立的處分。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，獨立的處分，它不是刑罰的一部分。"],["黃次長謀信：也不是類刑罰。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，也不是類刑。所以我現在就有一點疑惑，這個疑惑就是未來在法律適用上也許還有很多人會挑戰這一點，就是說我們現在對陳總統沒收的有針對他已扣押的，這裡說的已扣押的有可能是在地檢署扣押，好像有部分是扣押在瑞士的，這部分未來是不是要把它再移回來？這部分如果是真沒收的，那會不會再擴及到陳總統個人其他的財產？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，已經確定的部分我們現在已經執行完畢了，委員提的大概是還沒有確定的那部分才有這個問題，因為已經確定的部分、已經沒收的我們都執行完畢了，所以沒有擴充的問題。"],["蔡委員易餘：既然還沒有確定那就是未來的問題，是未來另外的案件。"],["黃次長謀信：另外的案件還沒確定，我們……"],["蔡委員易餘：所以已確定的案件、該執行沒收的就執行完畢了，所以也不會有大家質疑的這些已執行的會被他拿回去的問題，已執行完畢就是執行完畢了。"],["黃次長謀信：對，確定的部分幾乎執行完畢了，99%執行完畢了，留下一點點而已，那是執行技巧的問題，原則上是執行完畢了。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以就回到我說的，會不會又擴及到陳前總統他個人的財產？"],["黃次長謀信：因為我們除了這個已經執行完畢的財產之外，當時特偵組還有扣押其他的財產。"],["蔡委員易餘：那是有扣押的嘛！我現在是說會不會又擴及到沒有扣押的，應該不會吧？不至於吧？"],["黃次長謀信：訴訟上有規定在什麼狀況下可以扣押，必須是可為證據或得沒收之物才可以扣押，並不是說要扣押就要扣押。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，就是可為沒收嘛！所以這應該很清楚的有法律的定義，因為這件事尚未發生，是社會上有所討論，我只是要強調因為總統有這樣的高度，而且陳總統的案件，我知道當時法務部的很多你們的一些前輩、特偵組在辦陳總統的程序上是不夠正義的，在審判的過程，司法院會說這是審判核心，但是國務機要費卻跟特別費截然不同，一個有大水庫理論，一個就把它完全認定為都是不法所得，截然不同！所以才會造成一個案件至今仍然是藍綠的分際，大家都在那邊各說各話，我覺得同樣的狀況卻產生兩種判決就會讓社會產生爭議，致使陳總統案件至今仍然無法解決，法院無法解決社會的爭議，所以總統要行使他的高度，用特赦來解決這樣的爭議，這個是我的一個主張啦。","我最後再用短短的時間跟法務部呼籲，現在中國有一種叫做「上頭電子煙」的東西，它的成分含有一種麻醉藥物「依托咪酯」，俗稱「上頭」，我不知道為什麼要叫上頭，中國的命名都很奇怪，它一直被宣傳說這個麻醉藥品可以合法的取代大麻，我希望法務部正視這件事情。現在很多年輕人都說抽大麻違法，那就用電子煙來抽這樣一個叫做依托咪酯的麻醉藥品，可是這個依托咪酯一樣會造成迷幻，而且會有成癮性。所以我覺得法務部要去正視這個毒品在市面上流通，而且很多年輕人會因為電子煙去好奇、去接觸然後去使用這樣的東西，我覺得法務部要正視這個事，好不好？謝謝！"],["黃次長謀信：好。謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝。下一位請林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員。","蘇巧慧委員、蘇巧慧委員、蘇巧慧委員。","接下來麻煩翁曉玲委員代理主席。謝謝！"],["主席（翁委員曉玲代）：接下來請吳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-22","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","翁曉玲","莊瑞雄","羅智強","陳俊宇","謝龍介","傅崐萁","林思銘","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","蔡易餘","吳思瑤","洪孟楷","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra 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\"不\", \"start\": 420.931, \"end\": 421.191, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 421.191, \"end\": 421.792, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 421.792, \"end\": 421.812, \"score\": 0.631}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,913 --> 00:00:11,113\n法務部次長\n\n2\n00:00:22,070 --> 00:00:50,186\n市長關於特赦這本來就是屬於總統的以總統的權利所以總統來行使特赦依赦免法第三條當然他有不同的法律效果因為赦免法第三條也寫的比較含糊他好像分為兩部分一部分就是說可以赦免其刑那如果是在例外狀況的話可以直接讓刑的讓他整個宣告無效\n\n3\n00:00:51,047 --> 00:01:00,880\n所以這個宣告無效是不是代表就是說罪跟刑同時都設這個就很大的法律解釋空間但是我想當初立法在創造這樣的空間的時候應該就是要賦予總統有這樣的高度\n\n4\n00:01:05,846 --> 00:01:22,365\n在面對不同的案件的時候他要行使他的這一個豁免的這一個特赦或者是大赦的權利這個權利要大到哪邊那次長我這樣的我這樣的一個對法的這樣的一個認知你怎麼看呢\n\n5\n00:01:23,185 --> 00:01:49,233\n基本上是贊同委員的意見我們憲法的確規定大赦特赦檢訊是總統的特別權限另外按照赦免法第3條的規定他赦免的有兩種可能第一個是免除刑之執行第二個是罪行無效所以的確有這兩種可能性第一個是免除刑的執行所以今天會有設定我想今天主席設定這樣的題目就主要是說如果我們今天\n\n6\n00:01:50,373 --> 00:02:15,359\n這一個特色只是在於第三條的這個前半段的時候就是免除刑的執行那也就是現在媒體上一直在講的就是說這個除刑不除罪就是說他的判決當時候這個定讞的判決仍然是存在的只是他的刑就因為特赦後免除刑的執行\n\n7\n00:02:17,060 --> 00:02:30,087\n那這個免除執行他涉及到了沒收的所謂不法所得的沒收那次長這樣怎麼去認定他這個當時候判的這個不法所得你們要怎麼認定\n\n8\n00:02:32,017 --> 00:02:56,144\n確定的判決當然是看判決書上面的主文上所載的這個沒收的範圍但是無論是哪一種沒收哪一種特色形態行之免除也好或者罪行都無效也好他說免除都是罪或刑但是我們沒收他本身不是罪也不是刑對他過去有憲法法庭有說嘛他不是刑法的一部分沒收又是另外他是一個\n\n9\n00:02:57,885 --> 00:03:15,501\n對,它是一個獨立的一個處分對,獨立的處分,它不是刑法的一部分也不是類刑法對,也不是類刑所以我現在就有一點疑惑這個疑惑就是說未來在法律適用上也許還有很多人會挑戰這一點就是說好,我們現在對陳總統去沒收的有針對他已扣押的\n\n10\n00:03:16,421 --> 00:03:34,476\n這個已扣押的有可能是在地檢署扣押那好像也有部分是在瑞士扣押在瑞士的那這部分是不是要未來是要把它再移回來那這部分如果是真沒收的那會不會再擴及到陳總統個人其他的財產\n\n11\n00:03:36,480 --> 00:04:05,231\n會不會呢?跟委員報告他當然看我們現在已經確定的部分已經執行完畢了那委員提的大概是還沒有確定那一部分才有這個問題因為已經確定的部分我們都已經沒收的部分都執行完畢了都執行完畢了對所以沒有擴充的問題了對阿既然還沒有確定也就是那是未來的問題阿對那是未來另外的案件對另外的案件他還沒確定所以以確定的案件的該執行沒收的就執行完畢了就執行完畢了對所以也不會有大家那麼那麼\n\n12\n00:04:06,111 --> 00:04:26,350\n好像有些人在質疑說阿你是不是這一些以執行的會被他拿回去試案不會以執行完畢就是執行完畢了這個確定的部分幾乎執行完畢了99%執行完畢了留下一點點而已那是執行技巧的問題那執行技巧的問題不是原則上是執行完畢了好那所以回到我說的阿會不會又擴及到陳前總統他個人的財產\n\n13\n00:04:29,946 --> 00:04:55,607\n我們除了這個已經執行完畢的財產之外還當時特徵組還有扣押其他的財產對有扣押的嘛那是扣押的其他的那我現在是指說會不會又扣及到沒有扣押的應該不會吧不至於的扣押他有有適用法上的規定在什麼狀況下可以扣押啦要不然得為證據之物可為沒收之物才可以扣押並不是說說要扣押就要扣押對就可為沒收嘛所以這應該做很清楚的法律的定義啦\n\n14\n00:04:56,408 --> 00:05:00,690\n所以我想因為這件事也要不發聲我們社會會去討論那我只是要強調就是說因為總統有這樣的高度而且陳總統的案件在當時我知道法務部的很多你們的一些前輩這個特徵組在辦陳總統的時候程序上是不夠正義的在審判的過程司法院會說是審判核心但是國務機要費卻跟特別費是截然不同\n\n15\n00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:42,104\n一個有大水庫理論一個就是把他完全都是要把他把他認定都是全部是不法所得截然不同所以才會造成一個案件到至今仍然是藍綠的這樣的一個分際大家都各詐騙各說各話我覺得這樣因為判決同樣的狀況會產生兩種判決就會讓社會產生爭議這是陳總統案件至今仍然沒有改革反而沒有改革社會建議所以總統要行使他的高度\n\n16\n00:05:55,507 --> 00:06:15,326\n用特赦來解決這樣的爭議這個是我的一個主張那我最後再用一個短短的時間我要跟法務部呼籲現在中國有一種叫做上頭電子煙這個上頭電子煙它是用一種麻醉藥物叫做伊托米子\n\n17\n00:06:16,852 --> 00:06:17,473\n馬醉藥品可合法取代大麻\n\n18\n00:06:28,653 --> 00:06:53,820\n合法取代大麻我想法務部正視這件事情現在很多年輕人他們都說是抽大麻違法那我來抽這個我用電子菸來抽這樣的一個麻醉藥品叫做依托米子那用這樣抽的這個依托米子他一樣會造成迷幻而且會有成癮性所以我覺得法務部要去正視這樣的一個毒品在市面上流通而且很多年輕人\n\n19\n00:06:54,761 --> 00:07:01,812\n會因為電子煙去好奇去接觸去使用這樣的東西我覺得法務部要正視這個事好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10913\t11113\t法務部次長\n22070\t50186\t市長關於特赦這本來就是屬於總統的以總統的權利所以總統來行使特赦依赦免法第三條當然他有不同的法律效果因為赦免法第三條也寫的比較含糊他好像分為兩部分一部分就是說可以赦免其刑那如果是在例外狀況的話可以直接讓刑的讓他整個宣告無效\n51047\t60880\t所以這個宣告無效是不是代表就是說罪跟刑同時都設這個就很大的法律解釋空間但是我想當初立法在創造這樣的空間的時候應該就是要賦予總統有這樣的高度\n65846\t82365\t在面對不同的案件的時候他要行使他的這一個豁免的這一個特赦或者是大赦的權利這個權利要大到哪邊那次長我這樣的我這樣的一個對法的這樣的一個認知你怎麼看呢\n83185\t109233\t基本上是贊同委員的意見我們憲法的確規定大赦特赦檢訊是總統的特別權限另外按照赦免法第3條的規定他赦免的有兩種可能第一個是免除刑之執行第二個是罪行無效所以的確有這兩種可能性第一個是免除刑的執行所以今天會有設定我想今天主席設定這樣的題目就主要是說如果我們今天\n110373\t135359\t這一個特色只是在於第三條的這個前半段的時候就是免除刑的執行那也就是現在媒體上一直在講的就是說這個除刑不除罪就是說他的判決當時候這個定讞的判決仍然是存在的只是他的刑就因為特赦後免除刑的執行\n137060\t150087\t那這個免除執行他涉及到了沒收的所謂不法所得的沒收那次長這樣怎麼去認定他這個當時候判的這個不法所得你們要怎麼認定\n152017\t176144\t確定的判決當然是看判決書上面的主文上所載的這個沒收的範圍但是無論是哪一種沒收哪一種特色形態行之免除也好或者罪行都無效也好他說免除都是罪或刑但是我們沒收他本身不是罪也不是刑對他過去有憲法法庭有說嘛他不是刑法的一部分沒收又是另外他是一個\n177885\t195501\t對,它是一個獨立的一個處分對,獨立的處分,它不是刑法的一部分也不是類刑法對,也不是類刑所以我現在就有一點疑惑這個疑惑就是說未來在法律適用上也許還有很多人會挑戰這一點就是說好,我們現在對陳總統去沒收的有針對他已扣押的\n196421\t214476\t這個已扣押的有可能是在地檢署扣押那好像也有部分是在瑞士扣押在瑞士的那這部分是不是要未來是要把它再移回來那這部分如果是真沒收的那會不會再擴及到陳總統個人其他的財產\n216480\t245231\t會不會呢?跟委員報告他當然看我們現在已經確定的部分已經執行完畢了那委員提的大概是還沒有確定那一部分才有這個問題因為已經確定的部分我們都已經沒收的部分都執行完畢了都執行完畢了對所以沒有擴充的問題了對阿既然還沒有確定也就是那是未來的問題阿對那是未來另外的案件對另外的案件他還沒確定所以以確定的案件的該執行沒收的就執行完畢了就執行完畢了對所以也不會有大家那麼那麼\n246111\t266350\t好像有些人在質疑說阿你是不是這一些以執行的會被他拿回去試案不會以執行完畢就是執行完畢了這個確定的部分幾乎執行完畢了99%執行完畢了留下一點點而已那是執行技巧的問題那執行技巧的問題不是原則上是執行完畢了好那所以回到我說的阿會不會又擴及到陳前總統他個人的財產\n269946\t295607\t我們除了這個已經執行完畢的財產之外還當時特徵組還有扣押其他的財產對有扣押的嘛那是扣押的其他的那我現在是指說會不會又扣及到沒有扣押的應該不會吧不至於的扣押他有有適用法上的規定在什麼狀況下可以扣押啦要不然得為證據之物可為沒收之物才可以扣押並不是說說要扣押就要扣押對就可為沒收嘛所以這應該做很清楚的法律的定義啦\n296408\t300690\t所以我想因為這件事也要不發聲我們社會會去討論那我只是要強調就是說因為總統有這樣的高度而且陳總統的案件在當時我知道法務部的很多你們的一些前輩這個特徵組在辦陳總統的時候程序上是不夠正義的在審判的過程司法院會說是審判核心但是國務機要費卻跟特別費是截然不同\n325720\t342104\t一個有大水庫理論一個就是把他完全都是要把他把他認定都是全部是不法所得截然不同所以才會造成一個案件到至今仍然是藍綠的這樣的一個分際大家都各詐騙各說各話我覺得這樣因為判決同樣的狀況會產生兩種判決就會讓社會產生爭議這是陳總統案件至今仍然沒有改革反而沒有改革社會建議所以總統要行使他的高度\n355507\t375326\t用特赦來解決這樣的爭議這個是我的一個主張那我最後再用一個短短的時間我要跟法務部呼籲現在中國有一種叫做上頭電子煙這個上頭電子煙它是用一種麻醉藥物叫做伊托米子\n376852\t377473\t馬醉藥品可合法取代大麻\n388653\t413820\t合法取代大麻 我想法務部正視這件事情現在很多年輕人 他們都說是抽大麻違法 那我來抽這個我用電子菸來抽這樣的一個麻醉藥品叫做依托米子那用這樣抽的這個依托米子他一樣會造成迷幻而且會有成癮性所以我覺得法務部要去正視這樣的一個毒品在市面上流通而且很多年輕人\n414761\t421812\t會因為電子煙去好奇去接觸去使用這樣的東西我覺得法務部要正視這個事好不好好 謝謝\n","txt":"法務部次長\n市長關於特赦這本來就是屬於總統的以總統的權利所以總統來行使特赦依赦免法第三條當然他有不同的法律效果因為赦免法第三條也寫的比較含糊他好像分為兩部分一部分就是說可以赦免其刑那如果是在例外狀況的話可以直接讓刑的讓他整個宣告無效\n所以這個宣告無效是不是代表就是說罪跟刑同時都設這個就很大的法律解釋空間但是我想當初立法在創造這樣的空間的時候應該就是要賦予總統有這樣的高度\n在面對不同的案件的時候他要行使他的這一個豁免的這一個特赦或者是大赦的權利這個權利要大到哪邊那次長我這樣的我這樣的一個對法的這樣的一個認知你怎麼看呢\n基本上是贊同委員的意見我們憲法的確規定大赦特赦檢訊是總統的特別權限另外按照赦免法第3條的規定他赦免的有兩種可能第一個是免除刑之執行第二個是罪行無效所以的確有這兩種可能性第一個是免除刑的執行所以今天會有設定我想今天主席設定這樣的題目就主要是說如果我們今天\n這一個特色只是在於第三條的這個前半段的時候就是免除刑的執行那也就是現在媒體上一直在講的就是說這個除刑不除罪就是說他的判決當時候這個定讞的判決仍然是存在的只是他的刑就因為特赦後免除刑的執行\n那這個免除執行他涉及到了沒收的所謂不法所得的沒收那次長這樣怎麼去認定他這個當時候判的這個不法所得你們要怎麼認定\n確定的判決當然是看判決書上面的主文上所載的這個沒收的範圍但是無論是哪一種沒收哪一種特色形態行之免除也好或者罪行都無效也好他說免除都是罪或刑但是我們沒收他本身不是罪也不是刑對他過去有憲法法庭有說嘛他不是刑法的一部分沒收又是另外他是一個\n對,它是一個獨立的一個處分對,獨立的處分,它不是刑法的一部分也不是類刑法對,也不是類刑所以我現在就有一點疑惑這個疑惑就是說未來在法律適用上也許還有很多人會挑戰這一點就是說好,我們現在對陳總統去沒收的有針對他已扣押的\n這個已扣押的有可能是在地檢署扣押那好像也有部分是在瑞士扣押在瑞士的那這部分是不是要未來是要把它再移回來那這部分如果是真沒收的那會不會再擴及到陳總統個人其他的財產\n會不會呢?跟委員報告他當然看我們現在已經確定的部分已經執行完畢了那委員提的大概是還沒有確定那一部分才有這個問題因為已經確定的部分我們都已經沒收的部分都執行完畢了都執行完畢了對所以沒有擴充的問題了對阿既然還沒有確定也就是那是未來的問題阿對那是未來另外的案件對另外的案件他還沒確定所以以確定的案件的該執行沒收的就執行完畢了就執行完畢了對所以也不會有大家那麼那麼\n好像有些人在質疑說阿你是不是這一些以執行的會被他拿回去試案不會以執行完畢就是執行完畢了這個確定的部分幾乎執行完畢了99%執行完畢了留下一點點而已那是執行技巧的問題那執行技巧的問題不是原則上是執行完畢了好那所以回到我說的阿會不會又擴及到陳前總統他個人的財產\n我們除了這個已經執行完畢的財產之外還當時特徵組還有扣押其他的財產對有扣押的嘛那是扣押的其他的那我現在是指說會不會又扣及到沒有扣押的應該不會吧不至於的扣押他有有適用法上的規定在什麼狀況下可以扣押啦要不然得為證據之物可為沒收之物才可以扣押並不是說說要扣押就要扣押對就可為沒收嘛所以這應該做很清楚的法律的定義啦\n所以我想因為這件事也要不發聲我們社會會去討論那我只是要強調就是說因為總統有這樣的高度而且陳總統的案件在當時我知道法務部的很多你們的一些前輩這個特徵組在辦陳總統的時候程序上是不夠正義的在審判的過程司法院會說是審判核心但是國務機要費卻跟特別費是截然不同\n一個有大水庫理論一個就是把他完全都是要把他把他認定都是全部是不法所得截然不同所以才會造成一個案件到至今仍然是藍綠的這樣的一個分際大家都各詐騙各說各話我覺得這樣因為判決同樣的狀況會產生兩種判決就會讓社會產生爭議這是陳總統案件至今仍然沒有改革反而沒有改革社會建議所以總統要行使他的高度\n用特赦來解決這樣的爭議這個是我的一個主張那我最後再用一個短短的時間我要跟法務部呼籲現在中國有一種叫做上頭電子煙這個上頭電子煙它是用一種麻醉藥物叫做伊托米子\n馬醉藥品可合法取代大麻\n合法取代大麻 我想法務部正視這件事情現在很多年輕人 他們都說是抽大麻違法 那我來抽這個我用電子菸來抽這樣的一個麻醉藥品叫做依托米子那用這樣抽的這個依托米子他一樣會造成迷幻而且會有成癮性所以我覺得法務部要去正視這樣的一個毒品在市面上流通而且很多年輕人\n會因為電子煙去好奇去接觸去使用這樣的東西我覺得法務部要正視這個事好不好好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.913 --> 00:11.113\n法務部次長\n\n00:22.070 --> 00:50.186\n市長關於特赦這本來就是屬於總統的以總統的權利所以總統來行使特赦依赦免法第三條當然他有不同的法律效果因為赦免法第三條也寫的比較含糊他好像分為兩部分一部分就是說可以赦免其刑那如果是在例外狀況的話可以直接讓刑的讓他整個宣告無效\n\n00:51.047 --> 01:00.880\n所以這個宣告無效是不是代表就是說罪跟刑同時都設這個就很大的法律解釋空間但是我想當初立法在創造這樣的空間的時候應該就是要賦予總統有這樣的高度\n\n01:05.846 --> 01:22.365\n在面對不同的案件的時候他要行使他的這一個豁免的這一個特赦或者是大赦的權利這個權利要大到哪邊那次長我這樣的我這樣的一個對法的這樣的一個認知你怎麼看呢\n\n01:23.185 --> 01:49.233\n基本上是贊同委員的意見我們憲法的確規定大赦特赦檢訊是總統的特別權限另外按照赦免法第3條的規定他赦免的有兩種可能第一個是免除刑之執行第二個是罪行無效所以的確有這兩種可能性第一個是免除刑的執行所以今天會有設定我想今天主席設定這樣的題目就主要是說如果我們今天\n\n01:50.373 --> 02:15.359\n這一個特色只是在於第三條的這個前半段的時候就是免除刑的執行那也就是現在媒體上一直在講的就是說這個除刑不除罪就是說他的判決當時候這個定讞的判決仍然是存在的只是他的刑就因為特赦後免除刑的執行\n\n02:17.060 --> 02:30.087\n那這個免除執行他涉及到了沒收的所謂不法所得的沒收那次長這樣怎麼去認定他這個當時候判的這個不法所得你們要怎麼認定\n\n02:32.017 --> 02:56.144\n確定的判決當然是看判決書上面的主文上所載的這個沒收的範圍但是無論是哪一種沒收哪一種特色形態行之免除也好或者罪行都無效也好他說免除都是罪或刑但是我們沒收他本身不是罪也不是刑對他過去有憲法法庭有說嘛他不是刑法的一部分沒收又是另外他是一個\n\n02:57.885 --> 03:15.501\n對,它是一個獨立的一個處分對,獨立的處分,它不是刑法的一部分也不是類刑法對,也不是類刑所以我現在就有一點疑惑這個疑惑就是說未來在法律適用上也許還有很多人會挑戰這一點就是說好,我們現在對陳總統去沒收的有針對他已扣押的\n\n03:16.421 --> 03:34.476\n這個已扣押的有可能是在地檢署扣押那好像也有部分是在瑞士扣押在瑞士的那這部分是不是要未來是要把它再移回來那這部分如果是真沒收的那會不會再擴及到陳總統個人其他的財產\n\n03:36.480 --> 04:05.231\n會不會呢?跟委員報告他當然看我們現在已經確定的部分已經執行完畢了那委員提的大概是還沒有確定那一部分才有這個問題因為已經確定的部分我們都已經沒收的部分都執行完畢了都執行完畢了對所以沒有擴充的問題了對阿既然還沒有確定也就是那是未來的問題阿對那是未來另外的案件對另外的案件他還沒確定所以以確定的案件的該執行沒收的就執行完畢了就執行完畢了對所以也不會有大家那麼那麼\n\n04:06.111 --> 04:26.350\n好像有些人在質疑說阿你是不是這一些以執行的會被他拿回去試案不會以執行完畢就是執行完畢了這個確定的部分幾乎執行完畢了99%執行完畢了留下一點點而已那是執行技巧的問題那執行技巧的問題不是原則上是執行完畢了好那所以回到我說的阿會不會又擴及到陳前總統他個人的財產\n\n04:29.946 --> 04:55.607\n我們除了這個已經執行完畢的財產之外還當時特徵組還有扣押其他的財產對有扣押的嘛那是扣押的其他的那我現在是指說會不會又扣及到沒有扣押的應該不會吧不至於的扣押他有有適用法上的規定在什麼狀況下可以扣押啦要不然得為證據之物可為沒收之物才可以扣押並不是說說要扣押就要扣押對就可為沒收嘛所以這應該做很清楚的法律的定義啦\n\n04:56.408 --> 05:00.690\n所以我想因為這件事也要不發聲我們社會會去討論那我只是要強調就是說因為總統有這樣的高度而且陳總統的案件在當時我知道法務部的很多你們的一些前輩這個特徵組在辦陳總統的時候程序上是不夠正義的在審判的過程司法院會說是審判核心但是國務機要費卻跟特別費是截然不同\n\n05:25.720 --> 05:42.104\n一個有大水庫理論一個就是把他完全都是要把他把他認定都是全部是不法所得截然不同所以才會造成一個案件到至今仍然是藍綠的這樣的一個分際大家都各詐騙各說各話我覺得這樣因為判決同樣的狀況會產生兩種判決就會讓社會產生爭議這是陳總統案件至今仍然沒有改革反而沒有改革社會建議所以總統要行使他的高度\n\n05:55.507 --> 06:15.326\n用特赦來解決這樣的爭議這個是我的一個主張那我最後再用一個短短的時間我要跟法務部呼籲現在中國有一種叫做上頭電子煙這個上頭電子煙它是用一種麻醉藥物叫做伊托米子\n\n06:16.852 --> 06:17.473\n馬醉藥品可合法取代大麻\n\n06:28.653 --> 06:53.820\n合法取代大麻我想法務部正視這件事情現在很多年輕人他們都說是抽大麻違法那我來抽這個我用電子菸來抽這樣的一個麻醉藥品叫做依托米子那用這樣抽的這個依托米子他一樣會造成迷幻而且會有成癮性所以我覺得法務部要去正視這樣的一個毒品在市面上流通而且很多年輕人\n\n06:54.761 --> 07:01.812\n會因為電子煙去好奇去接觸去使用這樣的東西我覺得法務部要正視這個事好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.913,"end":11.113,"text":"法務部次長"},{"start":22.07,"end":50.186,"text":"市長關於特赦這本來就是屬於總統的以總統的權利所以總統來行使特赦依赦免法第三條當然他有不同的法律效果因為赦免法第三條也寫的比較含糊他好像分為兩部分一部分就是說可以赦免其刑那如果是在例外狀況的話可以直接讓刑的讓他整個宣告無效"},{"start":51.047,"end":60.88,"text":"所以這個宣告無效是不是代表就是說罪跟刑同時都設這個就很大的法律解釋空間但是我想當初立法在創造這樣的空間的時候應該就是要賦予總統有這樣的高度"},{"start":65.846,"end":82.365,"text":"在面對不同的案件的時候他要行使他的這一個豁免的這一個特赦或者是大赦的權利這個權利要大到哪邊那次長我這樣的我這樣的一個對法的這樣的一個認知你怎麼看呢"},{"start":83.185,"end":109.233,"text":"基本上是贊同委員的意見我們憲法的確規定大赦特赦檢訊是總統的特別權限另外按照赦免法第3條的規定他赦免的有兩種可能第一個是免除刑之執行第二個是罪行無效所以的確有這兩種可能性第一個是免除刑的執行所以今天會有設定我想今天主席設定這樣的題目就主要是說如果我們今天"},{"start":110.373,"end":135.359,"text":"這一個特色只是在於第三條的這個前半段的時候就是免除刑的執行那也就是現在媒體上一直在講的就是說這個除刑不除罪就是說他的判決當時候這個定讞的判決仍然是存在的只是他的刑就因為特赦後免除刑的執行"},{"start":137.06,"end":150.087,"text":"那這個免除執行他涉及到了沒收的所謂不法所得的沒收那次長這樣怎麼去認定他這個當時候判的這個不法所得你們要怎麼認定"},{"start":152.017,"end":176.144,"text":"確定的判決當然是看判決書上面的主文上所載的這個沒收的範圍但是無論是哪一種沒收哪一種特色形態行之免除也好或者罪行都無效也好他說免除都是罪或刑但是我們沒收他本身不是罪也不是刑對他過去有憲法法庭有說嘛他不是刑法的一部分沒收又是另外他是一個"},{"start":177.885,"end":195.501,"text":"對,它是一個獨立的一個處分對,獨立的處分,它不是刑法的一部分也不是類刑法對,也不是類刑所以我現在就有一點疑惑這個疑惑就是說未來在法律適用上也許還有很多人會挑戰這一點就是說好,我們現在對陳總統去沒收的有針對他已扣押的"},{"start":196.421,"end":214.476,"text":"這個已扣押的有可能是在地檢署扣押那好像也有部分是在瑞士扣押在瑞士的那這部分是不是要未來是要把它再移回來那這部分如果是真沒收的那會不會再擴及到陳總統個人其他的財產"},{"start":216.48,"end":245.231,"text":"會不會呢?跟委員報告他當然看我們現在已經確定的部分已經執行完畢了那委員提的大概是還沒有確定那一部分才有這個問題因為已經確定的部分我們都已經沒收的部分都執行完畢了都執行完畢了對所以沒有擴充的問題了對阿既然還沒有確定也就是那是未來的問題阿對那是未來另外的案件對另外的案件他還沒確定所以以確定的案件的該執行沒收的就執行完畢了就執行完畢了對所以也不會有大家那麼那麼"},{"start":246.111,"end":266.35,"text":"好像有些人在質疑說阿你是不是這一些以執行的會被他拿回去試案不會以執行完畢就是執行完畢了這個確定的部分幾乎執行完畢了99%執行完畢了留下一點點而已那是執行技巧的問題那執行技巧的問題不是原則上是執行完畢了好那所以回到我說的阿會不會又擴及到陳前總統他個人的財產"},{"start":269.946,"end":295.607,"text":"我們除了這個已經執行完畢的財產之外還當時特徵組還有扣押其他的財產對有扣押的嘛那是扣押的其他的那我現在是指說會不會又扣及到沒有扣押的應該不會吧不至於的扣押他有有適用法上的規定在什麼狀況下可以扣押啦要不然得為證據之物可為沒收之物才可以扣押並不是說說要扣押就要扣押對就可為沒收嘛所以這應該做很清楚的法律的定義啦"},{"start":296.408,"end":300.69,"text":"所以我想因為這件事也要不發聲我們社會會去討論那我只是要強調就是說因為總統有這樣的高度而且陳總統的案件在當時我知道法務部的很多你們的一些前輩這個特徵組在辦陳總統的時候程序上是不夠正義的在審判的過程司法院會說是審判核心但是國務機要費卻跟特別費是截然不同"},{"start":325.72,"end":342.104,"text":"一個有大水庫理論一個就是把他完全都是要把他把他認定都是全部是不法所得截然不同所以才會造成一個案件到至今仍然是藍綠的這樣的一個分際大家都各詐騙各說各話我覺得這樣因為判決同樣的狀況會產生兩種判決就會讓社會產生爭議這是陳總統案件至今仍然沒有改革反而沒有改革社會建議所以總統要行使他的高度"},{"start":355.507,"end":375.326,"text":"用特赦來解決這樣的爭議這個是我的一個主張那我最後再用一個短短的時間我要跟法務部呼籲現在中國有一種叫做上頭電子煙這個上頭電子煙它是用一種麻醉藥物叫做伊托米子"},{"start":376.852,"end":377.473,"text":"馬醉藥品可合法取代大麻"},{"start":388.653,"end":413.82,"text":"合法取代大麻 我想法務部正視這件事情現在很多年輕人 他們都說是抽大麻違法 那我來抽這個我用電子菸來抽這樣的一個麻醉藥品叫做依托米子那用這樣抽的這個依托米子他一樣會造成迷幻而且會有成癮性所以我覺得法務部要去正視這樣的一個毒品在市面上流通而且很多年輕人"},{"start":414.761,"end":421.812,"text":"會因為電子煙去好奇去接觸去使用這樣的東西我覺得法務部要正視這個事好不好好 謝謝"}]}}}}