{"id":152581,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152581","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/069b0cf7e017bc3064adb361d4730bc7974d6013279311fbe01ba30ddb4afe0f621747a0e7dfbc9b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"09:50:09 - 10:00:46","影片長度":"00:10:37","會議時間":"2024-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員黃仁等18人擬具「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「離島建設條例第三條、第七條及第七條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「離島建設條例第五條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員陳玉珍等17人擬具「離島建設條例第十條條文修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員蔡易餘等21人擬具「離島建設條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【5月15日及16日兩天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-16","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-12"},"duration":637,"end_time":"2024-05-16T10:00:46+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-16T09:50:09+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":277,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（9時50分）請國發會副主委。"],["主席：我們再請高副主委。"],["張委員啓楷：今天交通部的代表是誰？"],["主席：請交通部。"],["張委員啓楷：盧副司長，是不是？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：高副，還有副司長，早安。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：早。"],["張委員啓楷：布袋港要設置免稅品提貨區，國發會應該是贊成的，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對，我們樂見其成。"],["張委員啓楷：你們要支持啦！我特別要求交通部上來，是因為剛才看你們的說明裡提到要設提貨區，旅客服務中心在民國110年5月16號已經正式啟用，然後你說離島建設條例第十條之一修正通過之後，航警局要找財政部討論相關的硬體和軟體設施，第一個，交通部是贊成的，跟國發會一樣，對不對？第二個，你說的修正條文，即離島建設條例第十條之一，應該這幾天就會通過，條文通過後，大概需要多少時間可以正式設立？"],["盧代理副司長清泉：報告委員，這部分最主要是牽涉到業者的意願，當初新的旅運中心成立的時候，其實就已經把相關的區位規劃好了，現在就看他們需要多少進駐時間，然後我們會跟相關單位，譬如關務署協調他們的軟硬體設備及動線的安排。"],["張委員啓楷：現在的時程就是等修法，對不對？看起來委員會這邊很快就會通過，送到院會，我現在問你的是，院會通過之後，你大概需要多少時間？相關流程剛剛你已經講了，對不對？你都有步驟了，那預計大概要多久？修法完成之後，大概多久布袋港可以看到免稅品的提貨區？半年內可以做得起來嗎？"],["盧代理副司長清泉：這還是牽涉到業者的意願，據我們的理解，目前離島免稅店其實有2家，從他們進駐，到相關人員配置以及整個動線安排，他要申請相關的設置許可。硬體面，我們可以很快準備好，但是軟體的流程面可能還需要多一點時間。"],["張委員啓楷：所以你大概抓多少時間？"],["盧代理副司長清泉：因為有牽涉到業者意願，我不敢幫他們先抓時間，官方的部分，我們會儘速配合。"],["張委員啓楷：交通部還有財政部該做的，你們要儘快先做好準備，好不好？這個對嘉義的發展、對整個離島的發展，老實講也是重要的，好不好？"],["盧代理副司長清泉：是。"],["張委員啓楷：我們共同來努力，好不好？"],["盧代理副司長清泉：是。"],["張委員啓楷：另外，嘉義輕軌這幾天一直在討論，今天有交通部的官員在，就是從高鐵太保站要拉進嘉義市區，也就是臺鐵火車站，嘉義人非常關心，包括嘉義市議會，很多嘉義人都已經在講，如果右邊這個嘉義市火車站要延伸到北門車站，完工之後，北門車站又接全臺灣唯一的高山鐵路─阿里山鐵道，這條鐵路7月1號要全線通車，你看這多漂亮的一條線！從高鐵太保站下來，進到嘉義市、到北門車站，北門車站已經是嘉義市非常有名的觀光點，現在又拉上去阿里山，這條線太漂亮了！然後剛剛我們講的布袋港，布袋港就在太保這邊，旁邊一點點就是故宮南院，很漂亮，對不對？很多人都想去，故宮南院如果拉到你剛剛講的那裡，把那個建設趕快做起來，從布袋港到故宮南院，到太保高鐵站，一直拉進來嘉義市，然後接到北門、到阿里山，這不只對嘉義，對全臺灣的觀光都會是一個非常大的進步，連國際都會看到嘉義，所以請交通部跟國發會要幫忙促成這件事情，好不好？當然，下個月嘉義市政府就會把評估報告送到交通部跟行政院，請國發會跟交通部可以支持，好不好？當然，這裡面可能牽扯到很多經費的問題，但我們會儘量去爭取，請大家要支持這個案子，謝謝。","交通部副司長可以先請回，我們請經濟部林次長。"],["主席：請經濟部次長。"],["張委員啓楷：高副你先留著。"],["林次長全能：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：我們來看一下金門的金水，金水2013年開始從廈門引水，花了多少錢？15億的工程款，一年利息高達數千萬，已經造成金門縣政府財政非常大的負擔，這件事情經濟部應該有討論過，他們現在嚴重到什麼程度？對縣庫是很大的負擔，對金門人也是一個很大的負擔，他們現在只能跟土銀、永豐銀借錢，然後人家一直催債、一直催債。金門引進原水，一天要用掉多少？2萬5,000噸，用水是非常重要的，副座，我們現在討論離島建設基金，有沒有可能以離島建設基金全額補助金水？"],["林次長全能：金門地區自來水營運的虧損差額補助，本來就可以依據離島建設條例來申請補助，不過金水公司第一期建設相關的貸款利息，在完成資本化之後，那個部分在行政院決定是不能夠納入差額補貼的狀況。"],["張委員啓楷：為什麼不能補助？我先問你，我們不是在講不要一國兩制嗎？像我住嘉義，嘉義沒有嘉義水，住基隆的，也沒有基隆水，臺北也沒有臺北水，都是台水，對不對？那為什麼金水蓋一個引水工程，自己要花15億？這有兩個解決方案，你聽我講、聽我講。有兩個解決方案，一個是把金水納入台水，包括債務部分全部都吸收，這是一個方法，對不對？第二個就是以離島建設基金補助金門，這兩條路可以走嗎？"],["林次長全能：我跟委員報告過，離島建設條例本來就可以補助，金水公司的投資部分可以納入補助，這是沒有問題的，但金水公司是用貸款方式，貸款的利息在建設過程中資本化，也可以補助，但完成之後，沒有辦法資本化，那依據條例規定就不能夠補助，差異在這邊。"],["張委員啓楷：現在這15億的工程款，你們會補助多少？"],["林次長全能：如果我沒有記錯的話，我們從89年……"],["張委員啓楷：2013年開始嘛，對不對？"],["林次長全能：從89年到112年我們已經補助了46.4億的差額補助給金水公司。"],["張委員啓楷：從2013年開始，這15億的工程款，你們補助多少？"],["林次長全能：這個部分，我請水利署說明。"],["張委員啓楷：你們補助多少？"],["黃副署長宏莆：跟委員報告，自大陸引水的工程費部分是中央是支持的，是13億，而剛剛委員所提到……"],["張委員啓楷：多少？你說中央支持多少？"],["黃副署長宏莆：13億啊！就是85%，13億的85%，大概是10億多。"],["張委員啓楷：15億補助85%，補助了13億？"],["黃副署長宏莆：對。剛剛委員關心的是自來水淨水場那一塊有13億，那是金水公司投入的，當初在行政院報核的時候，原則上院核定函就是縣府這邊要支應這個工程費，只是沒有想到後面它不用編列預算方式，而是用借款方式，所以借款的利息部分，其實在院這邊都討論過了，也就是建設時的利息部分，我們有差額補貼，這是OK的，但是資本化之後，也就是營運之後、正式引水之後，那個部分屬於營運部分，就沒有辦法補貼，這是一致性的標準。另外，如果未來整體營運部分，差價補貼晚撥的話，這個部分也是可以補的，所以只有那個13億的部分。"],["張委員啓楷：這有兩部分啦！第一個，釜底抽薪，現在就把金水納到台水去，可不可以？納到台水，你就不用補了，就直接台水去處理，不要一國兩制。"],["林次長全能：我跟委員報告，台水公司現在也是虧損累累，就我說，他自己都已經是泥菩薩過江了，所以他們自己要好好把這個事情做好。"],["張委員啓楷：不會啦！上次我們有幫台水爭取很多經費啊！"],["林次長全能：主要是台水公司本身目前也是虧損相當大，有借款，而台水現階段重要的推動工作，就是把營運做到更好，基本上如果金水進來會讓台水的營運更好，當然我們樂觀其成，但現在台水公司是在一個嚴重虧損的情形之下，這樣進來是沒有辦法發揮更好的效率的。"],["張委員啓楷：可是人家講這樣是一國兩制啊！對不對？"],["林次長全能：跟委員報告，事實上，沒有一國兩制，該補助的，我們一定會去補助。"],["張委員啓楷：好啦，所以今天我們來幫它爭取，這是金門縣政府要爭取的，應該跟你們講過，對不對？所以今天的答案，第一個，短時間併不到台水裡面去，可是當台水哪一天營運更好了、有錢了，可以考慮嘛，是不是這樣的意思？"],["林次長全能：這個還是要嚴謹評估，因為這個屬於高度政策，我可能沒辦法回復委員，抱歉。"],["張委員啓楷：那他們就繼續爭取，我找一天再來問。第二個更具體的，所以他們現在可以跟你們申請多少經費？他們現在就是缺錢，哪些部分可以再申請？"],["林次長全能：它只要每年的營運虧損符合相關規定，都可以來申請。"],["張委員啓楷：都可以喔！"],["林次長全能：而且我們都用最快的速度來做相關的補助。"],["張委員啓楷：OK，好，那我就請它趕快把計畫提上來，好不好？"],["林次長全能：是。"],["張委員啓楷：你們儘量幫忙他們，好不好？"],["林次長全能：好，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：多謝，感恩。"],["主席：接下來我們請鄭天財委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-12","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","黃仁","陳玉珍","蔡易餘","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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00:00:21,244\n接下來我們請張祺凱委員請做詢答請這個國化會的副主委我們再請高副主委今天交通部是代表什麼人來我們交通部盧副市長是不是\n\n2\n00:00:29,605 --> 00:00:49,174\n委員好高副還有這個副市長早安早那個布袋港要設置免稅品的這個提貨區這個國花會應該是贊成的嘛對不對我們每次熱箭齊城滿你們要你要要積極啦齁那特別要這個交通部是因為我剛才看你們的這個算命裡面說到你說這個要設這個提貨區啊\n\n3\n00:00:59,531 --> 00:01:22,510\n他的理科服務中心在民國110年的5月16號已經正式啟用。然後你說離島建設條例第十條之一修正通過之後,你們行警局要找財政部去討論相關的這個硬體跟軟體的設施。第一,高通報是暫時的對不對?跟國保一樣嘛對不對?那第二個,\n\n4\n00:01:23,351 --> 00:01:31,721\n你說這個修正條文離島建設條例第十條之一應該這幾天就會通過啦如果條文通過之後大概需要多少時間可以正式設立\n\n5\n00:01:33,528 --> 00:02:00,320\n報告委員,這個部分最主要是牽涉到業者他們的意願。那我們當初在設定新的旅運中心成立的時候,其實就已經有把相關的區域已經規劃好了。那就看他們多少時間需要進駐的時間,然後我們會跟這個相關的比如說關務署這邊來協調他們的軟硬體的設備跟動線怎麼安排。現在時程就是說修法嘛對不對。修法看起來委員會這邊很快通過就到院會了啦。\n\n6\n00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:00,540\n案。」\n\n7\n00:02:17,053 --> 00:02:41,593\n這還是要牽涉到那個業者的意願他們因為我們理解說因為目前的離島免稅店其實有兩家嘛然後他們這個從他們的進駐然後再到這個相關的人員的配置還有整個動線然後他要申請相關的一個這個許可這個程序上可能現在目前我們在硬體面我們可以很快準備好但是軟體的流程面這一部分可能還需要多一點時間\n\n8\n00:02:42,634 --> 00:03:10,172\n案,所以你抓,大概抓多少時間?這個我,因為有牽涉到業者的意願,我不敢幫他們先抓。對,那我們官方的部分我們會盡量盡速來配合。好,這是交通部這一邊的,還有財政部這邊該做的,要先抓準備,好不好?盡快這個提後,因為這個對嘉義的發展,對整個離島的發展老實講也是重要的,好不好?我們共同來努力,好不好?我們看下一張,事實上嘉義遷軌這幾天一直在討論,今天有交通部的觀點在,它就是為泰北的這個\n\n9\n00:03:12,452 --> 00:03:26,276\n一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條\n\n10\n00:03:39,460 --> 00:03:41,241\n一、本院委員及第七條之一條文修正草案\n\n11\n00:03:57,534 --> 00:04:25,151\n很漂亮的勒?很多人都想去。故宮藍燕如果說拉到你剛剛講的布袋港真的可以把這個這個剛的這個建設又趕快做起來就從布袋港到故宮藍燕到太保的這個隔地站一直拉進來嘉義市一直接到北門到阿里山這個對整個不只是嘉義喔這對全台灣的觀光會是一個非常大的一個這個進步連國際都會看到嘉義是不是這樣子\n\n12\n00:04:26,241 --> 00:04:54,975\n所以請交通部跟這個國發會要幫忙要促成這件事情好不好當然下個月下個月嘉義市政府就會把這個評估報告送到交通部跟行政院的請國發會跟這個交通部可以支持好不好當然這裡面可能牽扯到很多經費的問題我們會盡量去爭取請大家要支持這個案子好謝謝那那個交通部先請回好了我們請這個經濟部次長來林次長再請經濟部次長高副你先留著高副你先留著來來\n\n13\n00:04:56,758 --> 00:05:16,682\n委員好,我們來看一下金門的金水。金水2013年開始,它從廈門飲水,它花了多少錢?15億的工程款,一年的利率高達15000萬,已經造成金門縣政府財政非常非常大的一個負擔了。這事情應該\n\n14\n00:05:20,021 --> 00:05:48,030\n經濟部有討論過嘛,對不對?他們現在嚴重到什麼程度?對現庫是很大的負擔,對金門人是一個很大的負擔。他們現在只能去跟土銀、跟永豐銀借錢。然後人家一直在催債啊,一直在催債。可是對金門引進的鹽水一天啦,用掉多少?兩萬五千噸,用水是非常重要的。有沒有可能我們今天,欸,副總,我們今天討論離島的一個建設基金,有沒有可能離島建設基金前而去補助金水?\n\n15\n00:05:49,008 --> 00:05:49,028\n案。\n\n16\n00:06:07,623 --> 00:06:31,220\n案件後,這部分在行政院決定是不能夠來納入這個差額補貼的一個狀況這樣子。現在有兩個問題,我先問你,先看下一張。我們不是在講不要一國兩制嗎?像我住在嘉義,嘉義也沒有嘉義水啊。住在基隆也沒有基隆水,台北也沒有台北水,都是台水對不對?為什麼金水他們自己蓋一個飲水工程?\n\n17\n00:06:32,222 --> 00:06:39,373\n自己就要去花15億,叫兩個解決方案喔,叫兩個解決方案,欸聽我講聽我講,兩個解決方案嘛,把精水納到台水裡面去,\n\n18\n00:06:40,612 --> 00:06:41,953\n一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具\n\n19\n00:07:06,604 --> 00:07:15,475\n案完成之後沒有辦法資本化那這個在條例的規定裡面就不能夠來補助這個差異是在這邊目前我們從這個八十如果我沒有記錯的話從八十\n\n20\n00:07:25,106 --> 00:07:25,627\n2013年開始：立法院委員：\n\n21\n00:07:38,096 --> 00:07:49,440\n這個部分我請我們那個水利署跟委員報告今天是大陸飲水的工程費的部分飲水工程費是中央來支持的13億那剛剛委員提到13億就是85%也就大概10億多15億補是85%對\n\n22\n00:08:00,123 --> 00:08:02,906\n案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案\n\n23\n00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:41,699\n案並沒有說他後面不用編列預算方式,他是用去借款的方式。所以他那個借款的利息部分,那其實在院這邊都討論過了。也就是他在建設那時候的利息部分,這個部分我們有參加補貼,OK。但是他資本化之後呢,也就是在營運之後,正式營水之後,那個部分是屬於營運的,營運的那個部分就沒有辦法去\n\n24\n00:08:42,139 --> 00:08:43,340\n案、第十三條條文修正草案\n\n25\n00:08:59,135 --> 00:09:00,697\n條例第十三條條文修正草案\n\n26\n00:09:19,482 --> 00:09:34,560\n主要是說台水公司目前本身也是虧損相當大是借款那我們想台水現在現階段重要的推動工作是把它的營運做到更好那基本上如果說進來是會使台水的這個營運做得更好當然我們樂觀其成\n\n27\n00:09:34,980 --> 00:09:53,440\n但是現在台水公司是一個這個嚴重虧損的情形底下,這樣進來是沒有辦法這個發揮更好的一個效率啦。可是人家講一國兩制啊,對不對?事實上根本沒辦法,沒有一國兩制啊,該補助的我們一定會去補助啦。對,來來,所以今天我們要幫他爭取這是\n\n28\n00:09:54,434 --> 00:09:58,116\n案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案\n\n29\n00:10:20,006 --> 00:10:20,687\n案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案﹚\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n189\t21244\t接下來我們請張祺凱委員請做詢答請這個國化會的副主委我們再請高副主委今天交通部是代表什麼人來我們交通部盧副市長是不是\n29605\t49174\t委員好高副還有這個副市長早安早那個布袋港要設置免稅品的這個提貨區這個國花會應該是贊成的嘛對不對我們每次熱箭齊城滿你們要你要要積極啦齁那特別要這個交通部是因為我剛才看你們的這個算命裡面說到你說這個要設這個提貨區啊\n59531\t82510\t他的理科服務中心在民國110年的5月16號已經正式啟用。然後你說離島建設條例第十條之一修正通過之後,你們行警局要找財政部去討論相關的這個硬體跟軟體的設施。第一,高通報是暫時的對不對?跟國保一樣嘛對不對?那第二個,\n83351\t91721\t你說這個修正條文離島建設條例第十條之一應該這幾天就會通過啦如果條文通過之後大概需要多少時間可以正式設立\n93528\t120320\t報告委員,這個部分最主要是牽涉到業者他們的意願。那我們當初在設定新的旅運中心成立的時候,其實就已經有把相關的區域已經規劃好了。那就看他們多少時間需要進駐的時間,然後我們會跟這個相關的比如說關務署這邊來協調他們的軟硬體的設備跟動線怎麼安排。現在時程就是說修法嘛對不對。修法看起來委員會這邊很快通過就到院會了啦。\n120520\t120540\t案。」\n137053\t161593\t這還是要牽涉到那個業者的意願他們因為我們理解說因為目前的離島免稅店其實有兩家嘛然後他們這個從他們的進駐然後再到這個相關的人員的配置還有整個動線然後他要申請相關的一個這個許可這個程序上可能現在目前我們在硬體面我們可以很快準備好但是軟體的流程面這一部分可能還需要多一點時間\n162634\t190172\t案,所以你抓,大概抓多少時間?這個我,因為有牽涉到業者的意願,我不敢幫他們先抓。對,那我們官方的部分我們會盡量盡速來配合。好,這是交通部這一邊的,還有財政部這邊該做的,要先抓準備,好不好?盡快這個提後,因為這個對嘉義的發展,對整個離島的發展老實講也是重要的,好不好?我們共同來努力,好不好?我們看下一張,事實上嘉義遷軌這幾天一直在討論,今天有交通部的觀點在,它就是為泰北的這個\n192452\t206276\t一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條\n219460\t221241\t一、本院委員及第七條之一條文修正草案\n237534\t265151\t很漂亮的勒?很多人都想去。故宮藍燕如果說拉到你剛剛講的布袋港真的可以把這個這個剛的這個建設又趕快做起來就從布袋港到故宮藍燕到太保的這個隔地站一直拉進來嘉義市一直接到北門到阿里山這個對整個不只是嘉義喔這對全台灣的觀光會是一個非常大的一個這個進步連國際都會看到嘉義是不是這樣子\n266241\t294975\t所以請交通部跟這個國發會要幫忙要促成這件事情好不好當然下個月下個月嘉義市政府就會把這個評估報告送到交通部跟行政院的請國發會跟這個交通部可以支持好不好當然這裡面可能牽扯到很多經費的問題我們會盡量去爭取請大家要支持這個案子好謝謝那那個交通部先請回好了我們請這個經濟部次長來林次長再請經濟部次長高副你先留著高副你先留著來來\n296758\t316682\t委員好,我們來看一下金門的金水。金水2013年開始,它從廈門飲水,它花了多少錢?15億的工程款,一年的利率高達15000萬,已經造成金門縣政府財政非常非常大的一個負擔了。這事情應該\n320021\t348030\t經濟部有討論過嘛,對不對?他們現在嚴重到什麼程度?對現庫是很大的負擔,對金門人是一個很大的負擔。他們現在只能去跟土銀、跟永豐銀借錢。然後人家一直在催債啊,一直在催債。可是對金門引進的鹽水一天啦,用掉多少?兩萬五千噸,用水是非常重要的。有沒有可能我們今天,欸,副總,我們今天討論離島的一個建設基金,有沒有可能離島建設基金前而去補助金水?\n349008\t349028\t案。\n367623\t391220\t案件後,這部分在行政院決定是不能夠來納入這個差額補貼的一個狀況這樣子。現在有兩個問題,我先問你,先看下一張。我們不是在講不要一國兩制嗎?像我住在嘉義,嘉義也沒有嘉義水啊。住在基隆也沒有基隆水,台北也沒有台北水,都是台水對不對?為什麼金水他們自己蓋一個飲水工程?\n392222\t399373\t自己就要去花15億,叫兩個解決方案喔,叫兩個解決方案,欸聽我講聽我講,兩個解決方案嘛,把精水納到台水裡面去,\n400612\t401953\t一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具\n426604\t435475\t案 完成之後沒有辦法資本化那這個在條例的規定裡面就不能夠來補助這個差異是在這邊目前我們從這個八十如果我沒有記錯的話從八十\n445106\t445627\t2013年開始：立法院委員：\n458096\t469440\t這個部分我請我們那個水利署跟委員報告今天是大陸飲水的工程費的部分飲水工程費是中央來支持的13億那剛剛委員提到13億就是85%也就大概10億多15億補是85%對\n480123\t482906\t案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案\n497680\t521699\t案 並沒有說他後面不用編列預算方式,他是用去借款的方式。所以他那個借款的利息部分,那其實在院這邊都討論過了。也就是他在建設那時候的利息部分,這個部分我們有參加補貼,OK。但是他資本化之後呢,也就是在營運之後,正式營水之後,那個部分是屬於營運的,營運的那個部分就沒有辦法去\n522139\t523340\t案 、第十三條條文修正草案\n539135\t540697\t條例第十三條條文修正草案\n559482\t574560\t主要是說台水公司目前本身也是虧損相當大是借款那我們想台水現在現階段重要的推動工作是把它的營運做到更好那基本上如果說進來是會使台水的這個營運做得更好當然我們樂觀其成\n574980\t593440\t但是現在台水公司是一個這個嚴重虧損的情形底下,這樣進來是沒有辦法這個發揮更好的一個效率啦。可是人家講一國兩制啊,對不對?事實上根本沒辦法,沒有一國兩制啊,該補助的我們一定會去補助啦。對,來來,所以今天我們要幫他爭取這是\n594434\t598116\t案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案\n620006\t620687\t案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案﹚\n","txt":"接下來我們請張祺凱委員請做詢答請這個國化會的副主委我們再請高副主委今天交通部是代表什麼人來我們交通部盧副市長是不是\n委員好高副還有這個副市長早安早那個布袋港要設置免稅品的這個提貨區這個國花會應該是贊成的嘛對不對我們每次熱箭齊城滿你們要你要要積極啦齁那特別要這個交通部是因為我剛才看你們的這個算命裡面說到你說這個要設這個提貨區啊\n他的理科服務中心在民國110年的5月16號已經正式啟用。然後你說離島建設條例第十條之一修正通過之後,你們行警局要找財政部去討論相關的這個硬體跟軟體的設施。第一,高通報是暫時的對不對?跟國保一樣嘛對不對?那第二個,\n你說這個修正條文離島建設條例第十條之一應該這幾天就會通過啦如果條文通過之後大概需要多少時間可以正式設立\n報告委員,這個部分最主要是牽涉到業者他們的意願。那我們當初在設定新的旅運中心成立的時候,其實就已經有把相關的區域已經規劃好了。那就看他們多少時間需要進駐的時間,然後我們會跟這個相關的比如說關務署這邊來協調他們的軟硬體的設備跟動線怎麼安排。現在時程就是說修法嘛對不對。修法看起來委員會這邊很快通過就到院會了啦。\n案。」\n這還是要牽涉到那個業者的意願他們因為我們理解說因為目前的離島免稅店其實有兩家嘛然後他們這個從他們的進駐然後再到這個相關的人員的配置還有整個動線然後他要申請相關的一個這個許可這個程序上可能現在目前我們在硬體面我們可以很快準備好但是軟體的流程面這一部分可能還需要多一點時間\n案,所以你抓,大概抓多少時間?這個我,因為有牽涉到業者的意願,我不敢幫他們先抓。對,那我們官方的部分我們會盡量盡速來配合。好,這是交通部這一邊的,還有財政部這邊該做的,要先抓準備,好不好?盡快這個提後,因為這個對嘉義的發展,對整個離島的發展老實講也是重要的,好不好?我們共同來努力,好不好?我們看下一張,事實上嘉義遷軌這幾天一直在討論,今天有交通部的觀點在,它就是為泰北的這個\n一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條\n一、本院委員及第七條之一條文修正草案\n很漂亮的勒?很多人都想去。故宮藍燕如果說拉到你剛剛講的布袋港真的可以把這個這個剛的這個建設又趕快做起來就從布袋港到故宮藍燕到太保的這個隔地站一直拉進來嘉義市一直接到北門到阿里山這個對整個不只是嘉義喔這對全台灣的觀光會是一個非常大的一個這個進步連國際都會看到嘉義是不是這樣子\n所以請交通部跟這個國發會要幫忙要促成這件事情好不好當然下個月下個月嘉義市政府就會把這個評估報告送到交通部跟行政院的請國發會跟這個交通部可以支持好不好當然這裡面可能牽扯到很多經費的問題我們會盡量去爭取請大家要支持這個案子好謝謝那那個交通部先請回好了我們請這個經濟部次長來林次長再請經濟部次長高副你先留著高副你先留著來來\n委員好,我們來看一下金門的金水。金水2013年開始,它從廈門飲水,它花了多少錢?15億的工程款,一年的利率高達15000萬,已經造成金門縣政府財政非常非常大的一個負擔了。這事情應該\n經濟部有討論過嘛,對不對?他們現在嚴重到什麼程度?對現庫是很大的負擔,對金門人是一個很大的負擔。他們現在只能去跟土銀、跟永豐銀借錢。然後人家一直在催債啊,一直在催債。可是對金門引進的鹽水一天啦,用掉多少?兩萬五千噸,用水是非常重要的。有沒有可能我們今天,欸,副總,我們今天討論離島的一個建設基金,有沒有可能離島建設基金前而去補助金水?\n案。\n案件後,這部分在行政院決定是不能夠來納入這個差額補貼的一個狀況這樣子。現在有兩個問題,我先問你,先看下一張。我們不是在講不要一國兩制嗎?像我住在嘉義,嘉義也沒有嘉義水啊。住在基隆也沒有基隆水,台北也沒有台北水,都是台水對不對?為什麼金水他們自己蓋一個飲水工程?\n自己就要去花15億,叫兩個解決方案喔,叫兩個解決方案,欸聽我講聽我講,兩個解決方案嘛,把精水納到台水裡面去,\n一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具\n案 完成之後沒有辦法資本化那這個在條例的規定裡面就不能夠來補助這個差異是在這邊目前我們從這個八十如果我沒有記錯的話從八十\n2013年開始：立法院委員：\n這個部分我請我們那個水利署跟委員報告今天是大陸飲水的工程費的部分飲水工程費是中央來支持的13億那剛剛委員提到13億就是85%也就大概10億多15億補是85%對\n案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案\n案 並沒有說他後面不用編列預算方式,他是用去借款的方式。所以他那個借款的利息部分,那其實在院這邊都討論過了。也就是他在建設那時候的利息部分,這個部分我們有參加補貼,OK。但是他資本化之後呢,也就是在營運之後,正式營水之後,那個部分是屬於營運的,營運的那個部分就沒有辦法去\n案 、第十三條條文修正草案\n條例第十三條條文修正草案\n主要是說台水公司目前本身也是虧損相當大是借款那我們想台水現在現階段重要的推動工作是把它的營運做到更好那基本上如果說進來是會使台水的這個營運做得更好當然我們樂觀其成\n但是現在台水公司是一個這個嚴重虧損的情形底下,這樣進來是沒有辦法這個發揮更好的一個效率啦。可是人家講一國兩制啊,對不對?事實上根本沒辦法,沒有一國兩制啊,該補助的我們一定會去補助啦。對,來來,所以今天我們要幫他爭取這是\n案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案\n案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案﹚\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.189 --> 00:21.244\n接下來我們請張祺凱委員請做詢答請這個國化會的副主委我們再請高副主委今天交通部是代表什麼人來我們交通部盧副市長是不是\n\n00:29.605 --> 00:49.174\n委員好高副還有這個副市長早安早那個布袋港要設置免稅品的這個提貨區這個國花會應該是贊成的嘛對不對我們每次熱箭齊城滿你們要你要要積極啦齁那特別要這個交通部是因為我剛才看你們的這個算命裡面說到你說這個要設這個提貨區啊\n\n00:59.531 --> 01:22.510\n他的理科服務中心在民國110年的5月16號已經正式啟用。然後你說離島建設條例第十條之一修正通過之後,你們行警局要找財政部去討論相關的這個硬體跟軟體的設施。第一,高通報是暫時的對不對?跟國保一樣嘛對不對?那第二個,\n\n01:23.351 --> 01:31.721\n你說這個修正條文離島建設條例第十條之一應該這幾天就會通過啦如果條文通過之後大概需要多少時間可以正式設立\n\n01:33.528 --> 02:00.320\n報告委員,這個部分最主要是牽涉到業者他們的意願。那我們當初在設定新的旅運中心成立的時候,其實就已經有把相關的區域已經規劃好了。那就看他們多少時間需要進駐的時間,然後我們會跟這個相關的比如說關務署這邊來協調他們的軟硬體的設備跟動線怎麼安排。現在時程就是說修法嘛對不對。修法看起來委員會這邊很快通過就到院會了啦。\n\n02:00.520 --> 02:00.540\n案。」\n\n02:17.053 --> 02:41.593\n這還是要牽涉到那個業者的意願他們因為我們理解說因為目前的離島免稅店其實有兩家嘛然後他們這個從他們的進駐然後再到這個相關的人員的配置還有整個動線然後他要申請相關的一個這個許可這個程序上可能現在目前我們在硬體面我們可以很快準備好但是軟體的流程面這一部分可能還需要多一點時間\n\n02:42.634 --> 03:10.172\n案,所以你抓,大概抓多少時間?這個我,因為有牽涉到業者的意願,我不敢幫他們先抓。對,那我們官方的部分我們會盡量盡速來配合。好,這是交通部這一邊的,還有財政部這邊該做的,要先抓準備,好不好?盡快這個提後,因為這個對嘉義的發展,對整個離島的發展老實講也是重要的,好不好?我們共同來努力,好不好?我們看下一張,事實上嘉義遷軌這幾天一直在討論,今天有交通部的觀點在,它就是為泰北的這個\n\n03:12.452 --> 03:26.276\n一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條\n\n03:39.460 --> 03:41.241\n一、本院委員及第七條之一條文修正草案\n\n03:57.534 --> 04:25.151\n很漂亮的勒?很多人都想去。故宮藍燕如果說拉到你剛剛講的布袋港真的可以把這個這個剛的這個建設又趕快做起來就從布袋港到故宮藍燕到太保的這個隔地站一直拉進來嘉義市一直接到北門到阿里山這個對整個不只是嘉義喔這對全台灣的觀光會是一個非常大的一個這個進步連國際都會看到嘉義是不是這樣子\n\n04:26.241 --> 04:54.975\n所以請交通部跟這個國發會要幫忙要促成這件事情好不好當然下個月下個月嘉義市政府就會把這個評估報告送到交通部跟行政院的請國發會跟這個交通部可以支持好不好當然這裡面可能牽扯到很多經費的問題我們會盡量去爭取請大家要支持這個案子好謝謝那那個交通部先請回好了我們請這個經濟部次長來林次長再請經濟部次長高副你先留著高副你先留著來來\n\n04:56.758 --> 05:16.682\n委員好,我們來看一下金門的金水。金水2013年開始,它從廈門飲水,它花了多少錢?15億的工程款,一年的利率高達15000萬,已經造成金門縣政府財政非常非常大的一個負擔了。這事情應該\n\n05:20.021 --> 05:48.030\n經濟部有討論過嘛,對不對?他們現在嚴重到什麼程度?對現庫是很大的負擔,對金門人是一個很大的負擔。他們現在只能去跟土銀、跟永豐銀借錢。然後人家一直在催債啊,一直在催債。可是對金門引進的鹽水一天啦,用掉多少?兩萬五千噸,用水是非常重要的。有沒有可能我們今天,欸,副總,我們今天討論離島的一個建設基金,有沒有可能離島建設基金前而去補助金水?\n\n05:49.008 --> 05:49.028\n案。\n\n06:07.623 --> 06:31.220\n案件後,這部分在行政院決定是不能夠來納入這個差額補貼的一個狀況這樣子。現在有兩個問題,我先問你,先看下一張。我們不是在講不要一國兩制嗎?像我住在嘉義,嘉義也沒有嘉義水啊。住在基隆也沒有基隆水,台北也沒有台北水,都是台水對不對?為什麼金水他們自己蓋一個飲水工程?\n\n06:32.222 --> 06:39.373\n自己就要去花15億,叫兩個解決方案喔,叫兩個解決方案,欸聽我講聽我講,兩個解決方案嘛,把精水納到台水裡面去,\n\n06:40.612 --> 06:41.953\n一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具\n\n07:06.604 --> 07:15.475\n案完成之後沒有辦法資本化那這個在條例的規定裡面就不能夠來補助這個差異是在這邊目前我們從這個八十如果我沒有記錯的話從八十\n\n07:25.106 --> 07:25.627\n2013年開始：立法院委員：\n\n07:38.096 --> 07:49.440\n這個部分我請我們那個水利署跟委員報告今天是大陸飲水的工程費的部分飲水工程費是中央來支持的13億那剛剛委員提到13億就是85%也就大概10億多15億補是85%對\n\n08:00.123 --> 08:02.906\n案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案\n\n08:17.680 --> 08:41.699\n案並沒有說他後面不用編列預算方式,他是用去借款的方式。所以他那個借款的利息部分,那其實在院這邊都討論過了。也就是他在建設那時候的利息部分,這個部分我們有參加補貼,OK。但是他資本化之後呢,也就是在營運之後,正式營水之後,那個部分是屬於營運的,營運的那個部分就沒有辦法去\n\n08:42.139 --> 08:43.340\n案、第十三條條文修正草案\n\n08:59.135 --> 09:00.697\n條例第十三條條文修正草案\n\n09:19.482 --> 09:34.560\n主要是說台水公司目前本身也是虧損相當大是借款那我們想台水現在現階段重要的推動工作是把它的營運做到更好那基本上如果說進來是會使台水的這個營運做得更好當然我們樂觀其成\n\n09:34.980 --> 09:53.440\n但是現在台水公司是一個這個嚴重虧損的情形底下,這樣進來是沒有辦法這個發揮更好的一個效率啦。可是人家講一國兩制啊,對不對?事實上根本沒辦法,沒有一國兩制啊,該補助的我們一定會去補助啦。對,來來,所以今天我們要幫他爭取這是\n\n09:54.434 --> 09:58.116\n案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案\n\n10:20.006 --> 10:20.687\n案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案﹚\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.189,"end":21.244,"text":"接下來我們請張祺凱委員請做詢答請這個國化會的副主委我們再請高副主委今天交通部是代表什麼人來我們交通部盧副市長是不是"},{"start":29.605,"end":49.174,"text":"委員好高副還有這個副市長早安早那個布袋港要設置免稅品的這個提貨區這個國花會應該是贊成的嘛對不對我們每次熱箭齊城滿你們要你要要積極啦齁那特別要這個交通部是因為我剛才看你們的這個算命裡面說到你說這個要設這個提貨區啊"},{"start":59.531,"end":82.51,"text":"他的理科服務中心在民國110年的5月16號已經正式啟用。然後你說離島建設條例第十條之一修正通過之後,你們行警局要找財政部去討論相關的這個硬體跟軟體的設施。第一,高通報是暫時的對不對?跟國保一樣嘛對不對?那第二個,"},{"start":83.351,"end":91.721,"text":"你說這個修正條文離島建設條例第十條之一應該這幾天就會通過啦如果條文通過之後大概需要多少時間可以正式設立"},{"start":93.528,"end":120.32,"text":"報告委員,這個部分最主要是牽涉到業者他們的意願。那我們當初在設定新的旅運中心成立的時候,其實就已經有把相關的區域已經規劃好了。那就看他們多少時間需要進駐的時間,然後我們會跟這個相關的比如說關務署這邊來協調他們的軟硬體的設備跟動線怎麼安排。現在時程就是說修法嘛對不對。修法看起來委員會這邊很快通過就到院會了啦。"},{"start":120.52,"end":120.54,"text":"案。」"},{"start":137.053,"end":161.593,"text":"這還是要牽涉到那個業者的意願他們因為我們理解說因為目前的離島免稅店其實有兩家嘛然後他們這個從他們的進駐然後再到這個相關的人員的配置還有整個動線然後他要申請相關的一個這個許可這個程序上可能現在目前我們在硬體面我們可以很快準備好但是軟體的流程面這一部分可能還需要多一點時間"},{"start":162.634,"end":190.172,"text":"案,所以你抓,大概抓多少時間?這個我,因為有牽涉到業者的意願,我不敢幫他們先抓。對,那我們官方的部分我們會盡量盡速來配合。好,這是交通部這一邊的,還有財政部這邊該做的,要先抓準備,好不好?盡快這個提後,因為這個對嘉義的發展,對整個離島的發展老實講也是重要的,好不好?我們共同來努力,好不好?我們看下一張,事實上嘉義遷軌這幾天一直在討論,今天有交通部的觀點在,它就是為泰北的這個"},{"start":192.452,"end":206.276,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條"},{"start":219.46,"end":221.241,"text":"一、本院委員及第七條之一條文修正草案"},{"start":237.534,"end":265.151,"text":"很漂亮的勒?很多人都想去。故宮藍燕如果說拉到你剛剛講的布袋港真的可以把這個這個剛的這個建設又趕快做起來就從布袋港到故宮藍燕到太保的這個隔地站一直拉進來嘉義市一直接到北門到阿里山這個對整個不只是嘉義喔這對全台灣的觀光會是一個非常大的一個這個進步連國際都會看到嘉義是不是這樣子"},{"start":266.241,"end":294.975,"text":"所以請交通部跟這個國發會要幫忙要促成這件事情好不好當然下個月下個月嘉義市政府就會把這個評估報告送到交通部跟行政院的請國發會跟這個交通部可以支持好不好當然這裡面可能牽扯到很多經費的問題我們會盡量去爭取請大家要支持這個案子好謝謝那那個交通部先請回好了我們請這個經濟部次長來林次長再請經濟部次長高副你先留著高副你先留著來來"},{"start":296.758,"end":316.682,"text":"委員好,我們來看一下金門的金水。金水2013年開始,它從廈門飲水,它花了多少錢?15億的工程款,一年的利率高達15000萬,已經造成金門縣政府財政非常非常大的一個負擔了。這事情應該"},{"start":320.021,"end":348.03,"text":"經濟部有討論過嘛,對不對?他們現在嚴重到什麼程度?對現庫是很大的負擔,對金門人是一個很大的負擔。他們現在只能去跟土銀、跟永豐銀借錢。然後人家一直在催債啊,一直在催債。可是對金門引進的鹽水一天啦,用掉多少?兩萬五千噸,用水是非常重要的。有沒有可能我們今天,欸,副總,我們今天討論離島的一個建設基金,有沒有可能離島建設基金前而去補助金水?"},{"start":349.008,"end":349.028,"text":"案。"},{"start":367.623,"end":391.22,"text":"案件後,這部分在行政院決定是不能夠來納入這個差額補貼的一個狀況這樣子。現在有兩個問題,我先問你,先看下一張。我們不是在講不要一國兩制嗎?像我住在嘉義,嘉義也沒有嘉義水啊。住在基隆也沒有基隆水,台北也沒有台北水,都是台水對不對?為什麼金水他們自己蓋一個飲水工程?"},{"start":392.222,"end":399.373,"text":"自己就要去花15億,叫兩個解決方案喔,叫兩個解決方案,欸聽我講聽我講,兩個解決方案嘛,把精水納到台水裡面去,"},{"start":400.612,"end":401.953,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":426.604,"end":435.475,"text":"案 完成之後沒有辦法資本化那這個在條例的規定裡面就不能夠來補助這個差異是在這邊目前我們從這個八十如果我沒有記錯的話從八十"},{"start":445.106,"end":445.627,"text":"2013年開始：立法院委員："},{"start":458.096,"end":469.44,"text":"這個部分我請我們那個水利署跟委員報告今天是大陸飲水的工程費的部分飲水工程費是中央來支持的13億那剛剛委員提到13億就是85%也就大概10億多15億補是85%對"},{"start":480.123,"end":482.906,"text":"案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案件,其中一人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":497.68,"end":521.699,"text":"案 並沒有說他後面不用編列預算方式,他是用去借款的方式。所以他那個借款的利息部分,那其實在院這邊都討論過了。也就是他在建設那時候的利息部分,這個部分我們有參加補貼,OK。但是他資本化之後呢,也就是在營運之後,正式營水之後,那個部分是屬於營運的,營運的那個部分就沒有辦法去"},{"start":522.139,"end":523.34,"text":"案 、第十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":539.135,"end":540.697,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":559.482,"end":574.56,"text":"主要是說台水公司目前本身也是虧損相當大是借款那我們想台水現在現階段重要的推動工作是把它的營運做到更好那基本上如果說進來是會使台水的這個營運做得更好當然我們樂觀其成"},{"start":574.98,"end":593.44,"text":"但是現在台水公司是一個這個嚴重虧損的情形底下,這樣進來是沒有辦法這個發揮更好的一個效率啦。可是人家講一國兩制啊,對不對?事實上根本沒辦法,沒有一國兩制啊,該補助的我們一定會去補助啦。對,來來,所以今天我們要幫他爭取這是"},{"start":594.434,"end":598.116,"text":"案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":620.006,"end":620.687,"text":"案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案﹚"}]}}}}