{"id":152596,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152596","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/069b0cf7e017bc30d65148b908df6e1f3ce650d47ebc8884e01ba30ddb4afe0ffbc405ee1c6225db5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡其昌","委員發言時間":"09:42:12 - 09:53:55","影片長度":"00:11:43","會議時間":"2024-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部率所屬相關單位就「公路系統道路及橋梁安全改善辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-16","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-12"},"duration":703,"end_time":"2024-05-16T09:53:55+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-16T09:42:12+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":245,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（9時42分）謝謝主席，請陳政務次長。"],["主席：請陳次長。"],["陳次長彥伯：委員好。"],["蔡委員其昌：次長早安。次長，今天本席有兩個議題想要就教次長，第一個，我想這麼多年來，本席極力在爭取大安溪跟大甲溪橋的改建，這兩個橋其實都已經到了應該要改建的年限或者狀況，所以我們從104年開始會勘一路到今天，公路局的同仁也多次在我的辦公室、會議室、服務處，我們都開過會、現場會勘，也做過相關的協調會議。本來預計116年就可以完工，那現在看起來，因為包括物價上漲、缺工等等一大堆的問題，所以目前最新的進度預估應該是118年，我想請問次長，預算上面你覺得有沒有問題？因為我看起來總預算大概要60億吧？70幾億？"],["陳局長文瑞：72億。"],["蔡委員其昌：預算上有沒有問題？"],["陳局長文瑞：是不是由我來說明？"],["蔡委員其昌：沒問題，你說。"],["陳局長文瑞：確實當初原預估的預算，因為在整個設計之後，包括整個原物料的提升、成本的提升，所以我們現在設計之後的兩座橋梁預估費用是72億多啦！"],["蔡委員其昌：對，從60億變70幾億啦！"],["陳局長文瑞：對，因為局裡面是通案的計畫，是省道改善計畫，如果放在這邊的話，當然就會影響到其他省道的改善。"],["蔡委員其昌：沒有錯。"],["陳局長文瑞：所以我們是設計完之後，這個經費可能在省改的計畫，如果要放在這邊的話，也希望行政院可以把我們的省改計畫規模再擴大。"],["蔡委員其昌：好。"],["陳局長文瑞：所以這個部分我想我們設計之後會提報經費的額度來跟行政院爭取。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，局長，我想你很清楚，就是我擔心的其實跟你想像的是一樣啦！因為預算從60億變70幾億，如果用省改的預算的話，我擔心的就是你的預算規模如果不夠大，它會排擠到其他嘛！第二個，所以我今天也做了一個臨時提案，建請可不可以把大安溪跟大甲溪橋的改建列一個專案？這是兩條路，當然這兩條路都要行政院啦！所以本席提案建請你們去做評估，看哪一個方法比較好，是擴大省改預算的規模把大安溪、大甲溪橋做好，還是另外一條路？但是本席絕對不會走第三條路，你放心！我絕對不會寫一個大甲溪、大安溪改建條例，這一點是我跟國民黨最大的不同。","從我當副院長開始，我循規蹈矩，依照權力分立的原則、依照國家重大建設，你們也要進行相關評估，從可行性評估一路研議、從開始一直做到現在，你們大概時程都抓出來了，也可以做了，都沒有問題，現在剩下錢，那錢怎麼來？立法委員不可以增加你們的預算，所以我只能提一個建請案，就是我的臨時提案提了一個建請案，建請什麼事情？建請你們想辦法，請行政院做一個決定把省改的預算規模擴大，或者大甲溪、大安溪就列一個專案預算進行處理。次長，這樣可不可以？"],["陳次長彥伯：跟委員報告，有關大甲溪及大安溪改建的委員關心事項，交通部一定全力支持，包含公路局。有關經費的部分，我們很謝謝委員的提議，我們會朝這個方向來處理，但是我也跟委員報告，其實這整個計畫的期程不是一年的，所以即便看到72億、60億……"],["蔡委員其昌：對，我知道，它是分年執行。"],["陳次長彥伯：其實是分年在編，所以分年在編的時候，省改裡頭的經費也是有限，整體上當然先有一個專案的財源，大家會覺得比較心安，但如果就這個省改，它是滾動檢討，有很多的計畫都在裡頭，我覺得這個就變成施政上的一個重點，如果是基於交通安全，我想交通部也應該盡全力來支持、推動這項工程。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，次長，我今天的臨提只是讓你們多一個思考的方向，因為不管怎麼樣，我知道省改預算是分年執行，但問題是局長還是希望規模要擴大，不管怎麼樣它還是一筆滿大的錢，站在局長的角度，他還是擔心排擠，所以他希望預算規模能夠擴大，不管怎麼樣錢一定要比以前多。那到底是把省改預算規模擴大比較好，或者是我們列一個大甲溪、大安溪的專案預算，請行政院來支持比較好？所以我今天提一個建請案、臨時提案，建請你們來做這個評估，你們要趕快，我透過今天的決議建請你們重視這個問題，好不好？"],["陳局長文瑞：一定。"],["陳次長彥伯：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：但是千萬切記，如果特別條例是可以的，你要告訴我，我講過嘛！我有太多特別條例要提，我也會寫大安溪、大甲溪特別條例，我要你們做，對不對？這個行不通啦！所以我還是守規矩，我很認真要改善，因為大甲溪、大安溪對於臺中市民而言，這是海線很重要的交通要道，每天上班、下班經過那裡，所以它的安全問題、美觀的問題，因為新的橋梁改建之後，你們現在的橋梁設計都很有特色，我相信對地方的地景來講，幫忙也很大，當然更重要就是安全跟方便，這是第一個，謝謝交通部全力支持本席的這個計畫。","第二個，我看了一個報導，我作為一個臺中市民實在是有點難過，我看了去年度六都交通事故的一個統計表，作為臺中市民，發現臺中市的事故排名第一也就算了，事故最多，死傷也最多，而且這個比例、數字實在太驚人了，臺中市是7萬2，第二名桃園市的事故事件剩下4萬7，當然臺北市只有2萬3，臺北市如果跟臺中市來比，哇！那個差距真的太遠了。以死傷人數來講，臺中高達九萬六千多人，第二名是6萬3，從第二名開始都很接近，只有臺中市最特殊，事故最多、死傷最嚴重。我想請問次長，一個縣市的交通做不好，事故那麼多，臺中市有沒有跟交通部提出任何的改進計畫或者需求？"],["陳次長彥伯：我先簡單說明，有關這樣的數據呈現，其實交通部非常關切，所以我們應該是在去年有請臺中市特別到交通部做一個專案報告。另外，我們發現這樣的數據後，我們也正在會同相關的單位，因為這個數據的呈現從去年開始有一個大幅度的變化，我們覺得那個呈現是有問題的，所以我們會同相關單位，尤其是警政署，來看看它的統計資料上是不是有什麼問題。"],["蔡委員其昌：次長，我的意思是臺中市做一個專案報告之後，第一個，他們有沒有解釋原因？第二個，更重要的是他們有沒有提出改進的方法？"],["黃司長運貴：跟委員報告，事實上我們也有注意到這個情形，他大致上有提出一些原因，但是我們覺得還需要再跟他們進一步做瞭解。"],["蔡委員其昌：有沒有改進的方法？"],["黃司長運貴：事實上如同次長剛剛講的，我們已經邀請他們到我們的聯席會報做專案報告，請他們從工程交易、監理、執法的面向提出一些改進措施。"],["蔡委員其昌：他們認為最大的原因是什麼？臺中市政府認為最大的原因，為什麼臺中會這麼糟糕？這麼可恥的數字都跑出來了，為什麼？"],["黃司長運貴：目前他們初步是說他們的車輛數增加幅度比較多，大概有幾個原因……"],["蔡委員其昌：所以他們認為……"],["黃司長運貴：但我們還會進一步跟他們討論。"],["陳次長彥伯：車輛多就曝光度高啦！但是基於人民的安全，我覺得值得再檢討。"],["蔡委員其昌：臺中市增加的車輛跟臺北市、其他縣市比起來，跟這個表有成比例嗎？你們覺得成比例嗎？我們的事故數是人家的兩倍，我們的車輛有人家的兩倍嗎？不到兩倍，快兩倍了，車輛有人家的兩倍嗎？有嗎？"],["陳次長彥伯：我跟委員報告，這就是我們需要再進一步跟他們探討的。"],["蔡委員其昌：OK，我今天特別提這個數字，我認為作為一個臺中市的國會議員應該來瞭解、關心並要求這個事情，我在這裡講這個話，因為我不是臺中市議員，臺中市有很大的責任，但如果有中央可以協助的事情或者應該督導的事情，我請交通部一定要擔負起這個責任。就地方政府而言，你不能全部管它，市長重不重視、關不關心，他認為臺中市的人命值不值錢，市長身負最大的責任，但是我們不可以放任地方政府，我們中央該去督導它、要求它，或者甚至應該要協助它，我覺得我們都應該要做到。否則我作為一個臺中市民看到這個數字，我覺得嚇死人！臺中市是發生什麼事情？第二名才4萬7，我們是7萬2，接著是4萬6、4萬4、3萬6、2萬3，當然臺北市看起來很低，但不管怎麼樣，人家都三、四萬，我們臺中就七萬多，這數字極為誇張！所以請次長多多關心一下，好不好？到底臺中市發生什麼事情？我希望你們一方面去督導，但如果是我們中央的權責、該協助的，我們不分黨派去協助，因為這是臺中市民的生命財產，好不好？謝謝。"],["陳次長彥伯：我補充一句話，我們有派專家學者就近跟他們一起共同討論如何解決。"],["蔡委員其昌：OK，謝謝次長。"],["主席：謝謝，蔡其昌委員發言完畢。","現在請黃健豪委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":462,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-12","speakers":["李昆澤","廖先翔","林國成","游顥","蔡其昌","黃健豪","林俊憲","林沛祥","邱若華","許智傑","何欣純","魯明哲","陳素月","徐富癸","陳俊宇","顏寬恒","王鴻薇","邱志偉","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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\"0\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}]}, {\"start\": 85.505, \"end\": 90.968, \"text\": \"來 有沒有問題 預算上面 來局長確實 就是說當初原預估的預算那因為整個設計 設計之後大概包括這個原物料的一個這個提升 成本的提升所以我們現在設計之後的這個兩座橋梁的這個預估費用是72億多從60億變70幾億\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 85.505, \"end\": 85.585, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 85.585, \"end\": 85.725, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 85.725, \"end\": 86.426, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 86.426, \"end\": 86.626, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 86.626, \"end\": 86.746, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 86.746, \"end\": 87.126, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 87.126, \"end\": 87.226, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 87.226, \"end\": 87.306, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 87.306, \"end\": 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0.859}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 698.277, \"end\": 698.377, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 698.377, \"end\": 698.517, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 698.517, \"end\": 698.657, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 698.657, \"end\": 698.857, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 698.857, \"end\": 699.217, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 699.217, \"end\": 699.237, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,413 --> 00:00:26,468\n謝謝主席請陳政務次長請陳次長委員好次長早安早次長今天本席有兩個議題想要就教於次長第一個我想這麼多年來本席極力在爭取那個大安溪跟大甲溪橋的改建\n\n2\n00:00:27,469 --> 00:00:47,503\n那這兩個橋其實都已經到了應該要改建的這個年限或者這個狀況所以我們從這個104年開始會刊一路到今天那公路局的同仁也多次在我的辦公室會議室服務處我們都開過現場的會刊也做過相關的協調會議那本來預計116年\n\n3\n00:00:54,528 --> 00:01:10,340\n我們就可以來完工現在看起來因為包括物價上漲、缺工等等一大堆的問題所以應該目前最新的進度是118年那預估到118年請問市長這個預算上面你覺得有沒有問題因為我看起來總預算大概要60億吧70幾億\n\n4\n00:01:25,505 --> 00:01:30,968\n來有沒有問題預算上面來局長確實就是說當初原預估的預算那因為整個設計設計之後大概包括這個原物料的一個這個提升成本的提升所以我們現在設計之後的這個兩座橋梁的這個預估費用是72億多從60億變70幾億\n\n5\n00:01:48,539 --> 00:02:10,591\n那如果說因為局裡面的話是通案的計畫是這個省道改善計畫如果放在這邊的話當然就會影響到其他的省道的一個改善沒有錯所以我們是設計完之後的話就是這個經費可能在省改的計畫如果說要放在這邊的話也希望行政院就是說可以把我們的省改計畫規模再擴大所以這個部分我想我們會設計之後會提報這個經費的額度來跟行政院爭取局長我想\n\n6\n00:02:18,936 --> 00:02:35,093\n這個你很清楚就是說我擔心的跟你其實想像的是一樣啦就大概預算因為總共從60億變70幾億如果用省到這個改省改的預算的話那我擔心的就是你的預算規模如果不夠大他會排擠到其他嘛\n\n7\n00:02:35,754 --> 00:02:54,811\n那第二個所以我今天也做了一個臨時提案就是說建請可不可以把這個大安溪跟大甲溪橋的改建列一個專案這是兩條路啦當然這兩條路都要行政院啦所以本席提案是建請你們去做評估看哪一個方法是比較好\n\n8\n00:02:55,451 --> 00:03:19,918\n是擴大這個審改預算的規模來把大安溪大安溪橋做好還是另外一條路但是本席絕對不會走第三條路就是我請你放心我絕對不會寫一個這個條例我絕對不會寫一個大甲溪大安溪改建條例這一點是我跟國民黨最大的不同我都我從當副院長開始我循規蹈矩\n\n9\n00:03:20,851 --> 00:03:37,370\n依照權力分立的原則依照國家重大建設你們也要相關進行評估從可行性評估一路研議然後開始一直做做到現在你們大概10成都抓出來了然後也可以做了都沒有問題現在剩下錢\n\n10\n00:03:38,331 --> 00:04:01,164\n那錢呢怎麼來立法院委員不可以增加你們的預算所以我只能提一個建請案就我的臨時提了一個建請案建請什麼事情建請你們要想辦法要嘛行政院要做一個決定把審改的預算規模擴大或者大甲溪大安溪就列一個專案的預算來進行處理市長這樣可不可以\n\n11\n00:04:02,095 --> 00:04:28,134\n跟委員報告就是有關支持這個大甲大安溪的改建這個這一個委員所關心的事項交通部一定是全力支持包含公路總局公路局但是就有關經費的部分我們也很謝謝委員的一個提議我們會朝這個方向來處理但是呢我也跟委員報告其實這整個計畫的期程他的不是一年的所以即便是看到是其實我知道我知道他分年實施我知道\n\n12\n00:04:28,994 --> 00:04:45,474\n所以其實分年在編的時候當在審改裡頭它的經費也是有限但是整體上當然是先有一個專案的裁員大家會覺得比較心安但是如果就這個審改其實它是一個滾動檢討有很多的計畫也都是在這裡\n\n13\n00:04:45,834 --> 00:04:50,575\n市長今天的靈體只是讓你們去思考的方向多一個啦因為不管怎麼樣我知道就省改預算他也是分年執行嘛但是問題是局長他還是希望規模還是要擴大不管怎麼樣他還是一條蠻大的錢嘛\n\n14\n00:05:12,961 --> 00:05:34,956\n所以站在局長的角度他還是擔心排擠所以他希望能夠預算規模擴大所以不管怎樣錢一定要比以前多那到底把審改預算規模擴大比較好或者是我們列一個大甲溪大安溪的這個專案的預算請行政院來支持比較好所以我提了一個今天提了一個建請案一個臨時提案裡面建請你們來做這個評估所以你們趕快\n\n15\n00:05:39,519 --> 00:05:53,752\n這個我透過今天的決議也建請你們重視這個問題好不好但是千萬切記喔如果特別條例是可以的你要告訴我我講過嘛我有太多特別條例要提這個我也會寫啊大安溪大甲溪特別條例\n\n16\n00:05:55,173 --> 00:06:21,537\n就我要你們做,這個就,對不對,這不會通啦,所以我還是收幾句啦,我真認真要改善,因為大甲溪、大安溪在我們台中,做一個台中市民而言,這個是海線很重要的交通要道,每天經過那裡上班、下班,所以它的安全問題,它的這個美觀的問題,因為新的橋梁改建之後,我相信你們的設計,現在的橋梁設計都會有很有特色嘛,\n\n17\n00:06:22,037 --> 00:06:43,505\n所以我相信對地方的地警來講他幫忙也很大當然更重要就是安全跟方便好這是第一個我謝謝交通部來全力支持本席的這個計畫那第二個我看了一個報導我做一個台中市民我實在是有點難過我看了一下去年度六都的交通事故的一個統計表\n\n18\n00:06:45,425 --> 00:07:06,852\n這個作為臺中市民發現臺中市的事故排名第一也就算了就事故最多死傷也最多而且這個比例這個數字實在是太驚人了第二名的桃園事故事件臺中市是7萬2桃園第二名桃園市剩下4萬7\n\n19\n00:07:09,158 --> 00:07:29,835\n那當然臺北市只有兩萬三嘛那臺北市如果跟臺中市來比那個差距真的太遠了那以死傷人數來講臺中高達九萬六千多人第二名的六萬三所以人家第二名開始都很接近就只有臺中市最特殊事故最多死傷最嚴重我想請問部長\n\n20\n00:07:34,724 --> 00:07:46,064\n一個縣市的交通做不好事故那麼多臺中市有沒有跟交通部提出任何他們有什麼改進的計畫或者需求\n\n21\n00:07:48,954 --> 00:08:18,335\n我先簡單就是有關這樣的一個數據呈現其實交通部非常的關切所以我們在應該是在去年也有請臺中市特別到交通部來做專案的一個報告那當然還有另外一個我們也發現這樣的一個數據我們也正在會同相關的單位因為這個數據的呈現我們覺得他是在今年開始有一個大幅度的一個去年是嗎\n\n22\n00:08:18,795 --> 00:08:38,090\n去年就是有一大幅度我們覺得那個呃呃呈現是是有問題的所以我們也會會同呃相關單位尤其是警警政所來看他的統計的資料上是不是有些市長我的意思就是說臺中市做了一個專案報告之後第一個他們有沒有解釋什麼原因第二個更重要他們有沒有提出什麼改進的方法\n\n23\n00:08:40,118 --> 00:08:55,295\n跟委員報告事實上我們也有注意到這種情形他大致上有提出一些原因啦但是我們覺得說還需要再跟他們進一步去做了解那有沒有改進的方法那我們事實上也有跟我們事實上所講\n\n24\n00:08:56,716 --> 00:09:15,408\n以及有邀請他們到我們的聯席匯報做專案的報告就是請他們從工程交易監理執法這個面向提出一些改進的他們認為最大原因是什麼?臺中市政府認為最大的原因為什麼會臺中這麼糟糕這個這麼可恥的數字都跑出來了為什麼?\n\n25\n00:09:16,116 --> 00:09:40,077\n目前初步他們是說他們的車輛數是有增加幅度比較多大概是有幾個原因所以車輛數量多就曝光度高啦但是這樣的一個基於人民安全的我覺得是值得再講的增加的台中市的車輛比例有跟台北市跟其他縣市比起來有跟這個成比例嗎\n\n26\n00:09:42,469 --> 00:10:05,746\n你們覺得成比例嗎?就是我們市故事人家的兩倍,我們車輛有人家的兩倍嗎?不要吧,不到兩倍啦,快兩倍了,車輛有人家的快兩倍嗎?有嗎?我跟委員報告,這就是我們需要再進一步跟他們來探討的。OK,我今天特別提這個數字,我認為作為一個台中市的國會議員,應該來了解關心並要求這個事情啦。\n\n27\n00:10:07,261 --> 00:10:34,238\n這個我在這裡講這個話因為我不是臺中市議員嘛臺中市有很大的責任但如果中央我們可以協助的事情或者我們中央應該督導的事情我請交通部一定要擔負起這個責任就地方政府他各自當然他你不能全部管他嘛市長重不重視他關不關心他認為臺中市的人命值不值錢這個市長他這個身負最大的責任\n\n28\n00:10:35,342 --> 00:10:52,458\n但是我們不可以放任地方政府就是我們中央該有的去督導他去要求他或者甚至應該要協助他我覺得我們都應該要去做到或者我做一個台中市民我看到這個數字我覺得要怕死人說台中市市發生什麼事\n\n29\n00:10:53,908 --> 00:11:07,304\n第二名才四萬七我們七萬二然後接著四萬六四萬四三萬六兩萬三當然台北市看起來很低嘛但不管怎麼樣人家都四三四萬嘛我們台中就要七萬多這數字極為不合極為誇張極為誇張\n\n30\n00:11:13,150 --> 00:11:39,237\n所以請次長多多來關心一下啦好不好到底台中市發生什麼事情我希望你們也能夠一方面督導他然後如果我們中央是我們的權責該協助的我們不分黨派協助他因為這是台中市民的生命財產好不好謝謝補充一句話就是我們有派專家學者去就近去跟他們一起共同討論看如何解決OK謝謝謝謝次長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1413\t26468\t謝謝主席請陳政務次長請陳次長委員好次長早安早次長今天本席有兩個議題想要就教於次長第一個我想這麼多年來本席極力在爭取那個大安溪跟大甲溪橋的改建\n27469\t47503\t那這兩個橋其實都已經到了應該要改建的這個年限或者這個狀況所以我們從這個104年開始會刊一路到今天那公路局的同仁也多次在我的辦公室會議室服務處我們都開過現場的會刊也做過相關的協調會議那本來預計116年\n54528\t70340\t我們就可以來完工現在看起來因為包括物價上漲、缺工等等一大堆的問題所以應該目前最新的進度是118年那預估到118年請問市長這個預算上面你覺得有沒有問題因為我看起來總預算大概要60億吧70幾億\n85505\t90968\t來 有沒有問題 預算上面 來局長確實 就是說當初原預估的預算那因為整個設計 設計之後大概包括這個原物料的一個這個提升 成本的提升所以我們現在設計之後的這個兩座橋梁的這個預估費用是72億多從60億變70幾億\n108539\t130591\t那如果說因為局裡面的話是通案的計畫是這個省道改善計畫如果放在這邊的話當然就會影響到其他的省道的一個改善沒有錯所以我們是設計完之後的話就是這個經費可能在省改的計畫如果說要放在這邊的話也希望行政院就是說可以把我們的省改計畫規模再擴大所以這個部分我想我們會設計之後會提報這個經費的額度來跟行政院爭取局長我想\n138936\t155093\t這個你很清楚就是說我擔心的跟你其實想像的是一樣啦就大概預算因為總共從60億變70幾億如果用省到這個改省改的預算的話那我擔心的就是你的預算規模如果不夠大他會排擠到其他嘛\n155754\t174811\t那第二個所以我今天也做了一個臨時提案就是說建請可不可以把這個大安溪跟大甲溪橋的改建列一個專案這是兩條路啦當然這兩條路都要行政院啦所以本席提案是建請你們去做評估看哪一個方法是比較好\n175451\t199918\t是擴大這個審改預算的規模來把大安溪大安溪橋做好還是另外一條路但是本席絕對不會走第三條路就是我請你放心我絕對不會寫一個這個條例我絕對不會寫一個大甲溪大安溪改建條例這一點是我跟國民黨最大的不同我都我從當副院長開始我循規蹈矩\n200851\t217370\t依照權力分立的原則依照國家重大建設你們也要相關進行評估從可行性評估一路研議然後開始一直做做到現在你們大概10成都抓出來了然後也可以做了都沒有問題現在剩下錢\n218331\t241164\t那錢呢怎麼來立法院委員不可以增加你們的預算所以我只能提一個建請案就我的臨時提了一個建請案建請什麼事情建請你們要想辦法要嘛行政院要做一個決定把審改的預算規模擴大或者大甲溪大安溪就列一個專案的預算來進行處理市長這樣可不可以\n242095\t268134\t跟委員報告就是有關支持這個大甲大安溪的改建這個這一個委員所關心的事項交通部一定是全力支持包含公路總局公路局但是就有關經費的部分我們也很謝謝委員的一個提議我們會朝這個方向來處理但是呢我也跟委員報告其實這整個計畫的期程他的不是一年的所以即便是看到是其實我知道我知道他分年實施我知道\n268994\t285474\t所以其實分年在編的時候當在審改裡頭它的經費也是有限但是整體上當然是先有一個專案的裁員大家會覺得比較心安但是如果就這個審改其實它是一個滾動檢討有很多的計畫也都是在這裡\n285834\t290575\t市長今天的靈體只是讓你們去思考的方向多一個啦因為不管怎麼樣我知道就省改預算他也是分年執行嘛但是問題是局長他還是希望規模還是要擴大不管怎麼樣他還是一條蠻大的錢嘛\n312961\t334956\t所以站在局長的角度他還是擔心排擠所以他希望能夠預算規模擴大所以不管怎樣錢一定要比以前多那到底把審改預算規模擴大比較好或者是我們列一個大甲溪大安溪的這個專案的預算請行政院來支持比較好所以我提了一個今天提了一個建請案一個臨時提案裡面建請你們來做這個評估所以你們趕快\n339519\t353752\t這個我透過今天的決議也建請你們重視這個問題好不好但是千萬切記喔如果特別條例是可以的你要告訴我我講過嘛我有太多特別條例要提這個我也會寫啊大安溪大甲溪特別條例\n355173\t381537\t就我要你們做,這個就,對不對,這不會通啦,所以我還是收幾句啦,我真認真要改善,因為大甲溪、大安溪在我們台中,做一個台中市民而言,這個是海線很重要的交通要道,每天經過那裡上班、下班,所以它的安全問題,它的這個美觀的問題,因為新的橋梁改建之後,我相信你們的設計,現在的橋梁設計都會有很有特色嘛,\n382037\t403505\t所以我相信對地方的地警來講他幫忙也很大當然更重要就是安全跟方便好這是第一個我謝謝交通部來全力支持本席的這個計畫那第二個我看了一個報導我做一個台中市民我實在是有點難過我看了一下去年度六都的交通事故的一個統計表\n405425\t426852\t這個作為臺中市民發現臺中市的事故排名第一也就算了就事故最多死傷也最多而且這個比例這個數字實在是太驚人了第二名的桃園事故事件臺中市是7萬2桃園第二名桃園市剩下4萬7\n429158\t449835\t那當然臺北市只有兩萬三嘛那臺北市如果跟臺中市來比那個差距真的太遠了那以死傷人數來講臺中高達九萬六千多人第二名的六萬三所以人家第二名開始都很接近就只有臺中市最特殊事故最多死傷最嚴重我想請問部長\n454724\t466064\t一個縣市的交通做不好事故那麼多臺中市有沒有跟交通部提出任何他們有什麼改進的計畫或者需求\n468954\t498335\t我先簡單就是有關這樣的一個數據呈現其實交通部非常的關切所以我們在應該是在去年也有請臺中市特別到交通部來做專案的一個報告那當然還有另外一個我們也發現這樣的一個數據我們也正在會同相關的單位因為這個數據的呈現我們覺得他是在今年開始有一個大幅度的一個去年是嗎\n498795\t518090\t去年就是有一大幅度我們覺得那個呃呃呈現是是有問題的所以我們也會會同呃相關單位尤其是警警政所來看他的統計的資料上是不是有些市長我的意思就是說臺中市做了一個專案報告之後第一個他們有沒有解釋什麼原因第二個更重要他們有沒有提出什麼改進的方法\n520118\t535295\t跟委員報告事實上我們也有注意到這種情形他大致上有提出一些原因啦但是我們覺得說還需要再跟他們進一步去做了解那有沒有改進的方法那我們事實上也有跟我們事實上所講\n536716\t555408\t以及有邀請他們到我們的聯席匯報做專案的報告就是請他們從工程交易監理執法這個面向提出一些改進的他們認為最大原因是什麼?臺中市政府認為最大的原因為什麼會臺中這麼糟糕這個這麼可恥的數字都跑出來了為什麼?\n556116\t580077\t目前初步他們是說他們的車輛數是有增加幅度比較多大概是有幾個原因所以車輛數量多就曝光度高啦但是這樣的一個基於人民安全的我覺得是值得再講的增加的台中市的車輛比例有跟台北市跟其他縣市比起來有跟這個成比例嗎\n582469\t605746\t你們覺得成比例嗎?就是我們市故事人家的兩倍,我們車輛有人家的兩倍嗎?不要吧,不到兩倍啦,快兩倍了,車輛有人家的快兩倍嗎?有嗎?我跟委員報告,這就是我們需要再進一步跟他們來探討的。OK,我今天特別提這個數字,我認為作為一個台中市的國會議員,應該來了解關心並要求這個事情啦。\n607261\t634238\t這個我在這裡講這個話因為我不是臺中市議員嘛臺中市有很大的責任但如果中央我們可以協助的事情或者我們中央應該督導的事情我請交通部一定要擔負起這個責任就地方政府他各自當然他你不能全部管他嘛市長重不重視他關不關心他認為臺中市的人命值不值錢這個市長他這個身負最大的責任\n635342\t652458\t但是我們不可以放任地方政府就是我們中央該有的去督導他去要求他或者甚至應該要協助他我覺得我們都應該要去做到或者我做一個台中市民我看到這個數字我覺得要怕死人說台中市市發生什麼事\n653908\t667304\t第二名才四萬七我們七萬二然後接著四萬六四萬四三萬六兩萬三當然台北市看起來很低嘛但不管怎麼樣人家都四三四萬嘛我們台中就要七萬多這數字極為不合極為誇張極為誇張\n673150\t699237\t所以請次長多多來關心一下啦好不好到底台中市發生什麼事情我希望你們也能夠一方面督導他然後如果我們中央是我們的權責該協助的我們不分黨派協助他因為這是台中市民的生命財產好不好謝謝補充一句話就是我們有派專家學者去就近去跟他們一起共同討論看如何解決OK謝謝謝謝次長謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席請陳政務次長請陳次長委員好次長早安早次長今天本席有兩個議題想要就教於次長第一個我想這麼多年來本席極力在爭取那個大安溪跟大甲溪橋的改建\n那這兩個橋其實都已經到了應該要改建的這個年限或者這個狀況所以我們從這個104年開始會刊一路到今天那公路局的同仁也多次在我的辦公室會議室服務處我們都開過現場的會刊也做過相關的協調會議那本來預計116年\n我們就可以來完工現在看起來因為包括物價上漲、缺工等等一大堆的問題所以應該目前最新的進度是118年那預估到118年請問市長這個預算上面你覺得有沒有問題因為我看起來總預算大概要60億吧70幾億\n來 有沒有問題 預算上面 來局長確實 就是說當初原預估的預算那因為整個設計 設計之後大概包括這個原物料的一個這個提升 成本的提升所以我們現在設計之後的這個兩座橋梁的這個預估費用是72億多從60億變70幾億\n那如果說因為局裡面的話是通案的計畫是這個省道改善計畫如果放在這邊的話當然就會影響到其他的省道的一個改善沒有錯所以我們是設計完之後的話就是這個經費可能在省改的計畫如果說要放在這邊的話也希望行政院就是說可以把我們的省改計畫規模再擴大所以這個部分我想我們會設計之後會提報這個經費的額度來跟行政院爭取局長我想\n這個你很清楚就是說我擔心的跟你其實想像的是一樣啦就大概預算因為總共從60億變70幾億如果用省到這個改省改的預算的話那我擔心的就是你的預算規模如果不夠大他會排擠到其他嘛\n那第二個所以我今天也做了一個臨時提案就是說建請可不可以把這個大安溪跟大甲溪橋的改建列一個專案這是兩條路啦當然這兩條路都要行政院啦所以本席提案是建請你們去做評估看哪一個方法是比較好\n是擴大這個審改預算的規模來把大安溪大安溪橋做好還是另外一條路但是本席絕對不會走第三條路就是我請你放心我絕對不會寫一個這個條例我絕對不會寫一個大甲溪大安溪改建條例這一點是我跟國民黨最大的不同我都我從當副院長開始我循規蹈矩\n依照權力分立的原則依照國家重大建設你們也要相關進行評估從可行性評估一路研議然後開始一直做做到現在你們大概10成都抓出來了然後也可以做了都沒有問題現在剩下錢\n那錢呢怎麼來立法院委員不可以增加你們的預算所以我只能提一個建請案就我的臨時提了一個建請案建請什麼事情建請你們要想辦法要嘛行政院要做一個決定把審改的預算規模擴大或者大甲溪大安溪就列一個專案的預算來進行處理市長這樣可不可以\n跟委員報告就是有關支持這個大甲大安溪的改建這個這一個委員所關心的事項交通部一定是全力支持包含公路總局公路局但是就有關經費的部分我們也很謝謝委員的一個提議我們會朝這個方向來處理但是呢我也跟委員報告其實這整個計畫的期程他的不是一年的所以即便是看到是其實我知道我知道他分年實施我知道\n所以其實分年在編的時候當在審改裡頭它的經費也是有限但是整體上當然是先有一個專案的裁員大家會覺得比較心安但是如果就這個審改其實它是一個滾動檢討有很多的計畫也都是在這裡\n市長今天的靈體只是讓你們去思考的方向多一個啦因為不管怎麼樣我知道就省改預算他也是分年執行嘛但是問題是局長他還是希望規模還是要擴大不管怎麼樣他還是一條蠻大的錢嘛\n所以站在局長的角度他還是擔心排擠所以他希望能夠預算規模擴大所以不管怎樣錢一定要比以前多那到底把審改預算規模擴大比較好或者是我們列一個大甲溪大安溪的這個專案的預算請行政院來支持比較好所以我提了一個今天提了一個建請案一個臨時提案裡面建請你們來做這個評估所以你們趕快\n這個我透過今天的決議也建請你們重視這個問題好不好但是千萬切記喔如果特別條例是可以的你要告訴我我講過嘛我有太多特別條例要提這個我也會寫啊大安溪大甲溪特別條例\n就我要你們做,這個就,對不對,這不會通啦,所以我還是收幾句啦,我真認真要改善,因為大甲溪、大安溪在我們台中,做一個台中市民而言,這個是海線很重要的交通要道,每天經過那裡上班、下班,所以它的安全問題,它的這個美觀的問題,因為新的橋梁改建之後,我相信你們的設計,現在的橋梁設計都會有很有特色嘛,\n所以我相信對地方的地警來講他幫忙也很大當然更重要就是安全跟方便好這是第一個我謝謝交通部來全力支持本席的這個計畫那第二個我看了一個報導我做一個台中市民我實在是有點難過我看了一下去年度六都的交通事故的一個統計表\n這個作為臺中市民發現臺中市的事故排名第一也就算了就事故最多死傷也最多而且這個比例這個數字實在是太驚人了第二名的桃園事故事件臺中市是7萬2桃園第二名桃園市剩下4萬7\n那當然臺北市只有兩萬三嘛那臺北市如果跟臺中市來比那個差距真的太遠了那以死傷人數來講臺中高達九萬六千多人第二名的六萬三所以人家第二名開始都很接近就只有臺中市最特殊事故最多死傷最嚴重我想請問部長\n一個縣市的交通做不好事故那麼多臺中市有沒有跟交通部提出任何他們有什麼改進的計畫或者需求\n我先簡單就是有關這樣的一個數據呈現其實交通部非常的關切所以我們在應該是在去年也有請臺中市特別到交通部來做專案的一個報告那當然還有另外一個我們也發現這樣的一個數據我們也正在會同相關的單位因為這個數據的呈現我們覺得他是在今年開始有一個大幅度的一個去年是嗎\n去年就是有一大幅度我們覺得那個呃呃呈現是是有問題的所以我們也會會同呃相關單位尤其是警警政所來看他的統計的資料上是不是有些市長我的意思就是說臺中市做了一個專案報告之後第一個他們有沒有解釋什麼原因第二個更重要他們有沒有提出什麼改進的方法\n跟委員報告事實上我們也有注意到這種情形他大致上有提出一些原因啦但是我們覺得說還需要再跟他們進一步去做了解那有沒有改進的方法那我們事實上也有跟我們事實上所講\n以及有邀請他們到我們的聯席匯報做專案的報告就是請他們從工程交易監理執法這個面向提出一些改進的他們認為最大原因是什麼?臺中市政府認為最大的原因為什麼會臺中這麼糟糕這個這麼可恥的數字都跑出來了為什麼?\n目前初步他們是說他們的車輛數是有增加幅度比較多大概是有幾個原因所以車輛數量多就曝光度高啦但是這樣的一個基於人民安全的我覺得是值得再講的增加的台中市的車輛比例有跟台北市跟其他縣市比起來有跟這個成比例嗎\n你們覺得成比例嗎?就是我們市故事人家的兩倍,我們車輛有人家的兩倍嗎?不要吧,不到兩倍啦,快兩倍了,車輛有人家的快兩倍嗎?有嗎?我跟委員報告,這就是我們需要再進一步跟他們來探討的。OK,我今天特別提這個數字,我認為作為一個台中市的國會議員,應該來了解關心並要求這個事情啦。\n這個我在這裡講這個話因為我不是臺中市議員嘛臺中市有很大的責任但如果中央我們可以協助的事情或者我們中央應該督導的事情我請交通部一定要擔負起這個責任就地方政府他各自當然他你不能全部管他嘛市長重不重視他關不關心他認為臺中市的人命值不值錢這個市長他這個身負最大的責任\n但是我們不可以放任地方政府就是我們中央該有的去督導他去要求他或者甚至應該要協助他我覺得我們都應該要去做到或者我做一個台中市民我看到這個數字我覺得要怕死人說台中市市發生什麼事\n第二名才四萬七我們七萬二然後接著四萬六四萬四三萬六兩萬三當然台北市看起來很低嘛但不管怎麼樣人家都四三四萬嘛我們台中就要七萬多這數字極為不合極為誇張極為誇張\n所以請次長多多來關心一下啦好不好到底台中市發生什麼事情我希望你們也能夠一方面督導他然後如果我們中央是我們的權責該協助的我們不分黨派協助他因為這是台中市民的生命財產好不好謝謝補充一句話就是我們有派專家學者去就近去跟他們一起共同討論看如何解決OK謝謝謝謝次長謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.413 --> 00:26.468\n謝謝主席請陳政務次長請陳次長委員好次長早安早次長今天本席有兩個議題想要就教於次長第一個我想這麼多年來本席極力在爭取那個大安溪跟大甲溪橋的改建\n\n00:27.469 --> 00:47.503\n那這兩個橋其實都已經到了應該要改建的這個年限或者這個狀況所以我們從這個104年開始會刊一路到今天那公路局的同仁也多次在我的辦公室會議室服務處我們都開過現場的會刊也做過相關的協調會議那本來預計116年\n\n00:54.528 --> 01:10.340\n我們就可以來完工現在看起來因為包括物價上漲、缺工等等一大堆的問題所以應該目前最新的進度是118年那預估到118年請問市長這個預算上面你覺得有沒有問題因為我看起來總預算大概要60億吧70幾億\n\n01:25.505 --> 01:30.968\n來有沒有問題預算上面來局長確實就是說當初原預估的預算那因為整個設計設計之後大概包括這個原物料的一個這個提升成本的提升所以我們現在設計之後的這個兩座橋梁的這個預估費用是72億多從60億變70幾億\n\n01:48.539 --> 02:10.591\n那如果說因為局裡面的話是通案的計畫是這個省道改善計畫如果放在這邊的話當然就會影響到其他的省道的一個改善沒有錯所以我們是設計完之後的話就是這個經費可能在省改的計畫如果說要放在這邊的話也希望行政院就是說可以把我們的省改計畫規模再擴大所以這個部分我想我們會設計之後會提報這個經費的額度來跟行政院爭取局長我想\n\n02:18.936 --> 02:35.093\n這個你很清楚就是說我擔心的跟你其實想像的是一樣啦就大概預算因為總共從60億變70幾億如果用省到這個改省改的預算的話那我擔心的就是你的預算規模如果不夠大他會排擠到其他嘛\n\n02:35.754 --> 02:54.811\n那第二個所以我今天也做了一個臨時提案就是說建請可不可以把這個大安溪跟大甲溪橋的改建列一個專案這是兩條路啦當然這兩條路都要行政院啦所以本席提案是建請你們去做評估看哪一個方法是比較好\n\n02:55.451 --> 03:19.918\n是擴大這個審改預算的規模來把大安溪大安溪橋做好還是另外一條路但是本席絕對不會走第三條路就是我請你放心我絕對不會寫一個這個條例我絕對不會寫一個大甲溪大安溪改建條例這一點是我跟國民黨最大的不同我都我從當副院長開始我循規蹈矩\n\n03:20.851 --> 03:37.370\n依照權力分立的原則依照國家重大建設你們也要相關進行評估從可行性評估一路研議然後開始一直做做到現在你們大概10成都抓出來了然後也可以做了都沒有問題現在剩下錢\n\n03:38.331 --> 04:01.164\n那錢呢怎麼來立法院委員不可以增加你們的預算所以我只能提一個建請案就我的臨時提了一個建請案建請什麼事情建請你們要想辦法要嘛行政院要做一個決定把審改的預算規模擴大或者大甲溪大安溪就列一個專案的預算來進行處理市長這樣可不可以\n\n04:02.095 --> 04:28.134\n跟委員報告就是有關支持這個大甲大安溪的改建這個這一個委員所關心的事項交通部一定是全力支持包含公路總局公路局但是就有關經費的部分我們也很謝謝委員的一個提議我們會朝這個方向來處理但是呢我也跟委員報告其實這整個計畫的期程他的不是一年的所以即便是看到是其實我知道我知道他分年實施我知道\n\n04:28.994 --> 04:45.474\n所以其實分年在編的時候當在審改裡頭它的經費也是有限但是整體上當然是先有一個專案的裁員大家會覺得比較心安但是如果就這個審改其實它是一個滾動檢討有很多的計畫也都是在這裡\n\n04:45.834 --> 04:50.575\n市長今天的靈體只是讓你們去思考的方向多一個啦因為不管怎麼樣我知道就省改預算他也是分年執行嘛但是問題是局長他還是希望規模還是要擴大不管怎麼樣他還是一條蠻大的錢嘛\n\n05:12.961 --> 05:34.956\n所以站在局長的角度他還是擔心排擠所以他希望能夠預算規模擴大所以不管怎樣錢一定要比以前多那到底把審改預算規模擴大比較好或者是我們列一個大甲溪大安溪的這個專案的預算請行政院來支持比較好所以我提了一個今天提了一個建請案一個臨時提案裡面建請你們來做這個評估所以你們趕快\n\n05:39.519 --> 05:53.752\n這個我透過今天的決議也建請你們重視這個問題好不好但是千萬切記喔如果特別條例是可以的你要告訴我我講過嘛我有太多特別條例要提這個我也會寫啊大安溪大甲溪特別條例\n\n05:55.173 --> 06:21.537\n就我要你們做,這個就,對不對,這不會通啦,所以我還是收幾句啦,我真認真要改善,因為大甲溪、大安溪在我們台中,做一個台中市民而言,這個是海線很重要的交通要道,每天經過那裡上班、下班,所以它的安全問題,它的這個美觀的問題,因為新的橋梁改建之後,我相信你們的設計,現在的橋梁設計都會有很有特色嘛,\n\n06:22.037 --> 06:43.505\n所以我相信對地方的地警來講他幫忙也很大當然更重要就是安全跟方便好這是第一個我謝謝交通部來全力支持本席的這個計畫那第二個我看了一個報導我做一個台中市民我實在是有點難過我看了一下去年度六都的交通事故的一個統計表\n\n06:45.425 --> 07:06.852\n這個作為臺中市民發現臺中市的事故排名第一也就算了就事故最多死傷也最多而且這個比例這個數字實在是太驚人了第二名的桃園事故事件臺中市是7萬2桃園第二名桃園市剩下4萬7\n\n07:09.158 --> 07:29.835\n那當然臺北市只有兩萬三嘛那臺北市如果跟臺中市來比那個差距真的太遠了那以死傷人數來講臺中高達九萬六千多人第二名的六萬三所以人家第二名開始都很接近就只有臺中市最特殊事故最多死傷最嚴重我想請問部長\n\n07:34.724 --> 07:46.064\n一個縣市的交通做不好事故那麼多臺中市有沒有跟交通部提出任何他們有什麼改進的計畫或者需求\n\n07:48.954 --> 08:18.335\n我先簡單就是有關這樣的一個數據呈現其實交通部非常的關切所以我們在應該是在去年也有請臺中市特別到交通部來做專案的一個報告那當然還有另外一個我們也發現這樣的一個數據我們也正在會同相關的單位因為這個數據的呈現我們覺得他是在今年開始有一個大幅度的一個去年是嗎\n\n08:18.795 --> 08:38.090\n去年就是有一大幅度我們覺得那個呃呃呈現是是有問題的所以我們也會會同呃相關單位尤其是警警政所來看他的統計的資料上是不是有些市長我的意思就是說臺中市做了一個專案報告之後第一個他們有沒有解釋什麼原因第二個更重要他們有沒有提出什麼改進的方法\n\n08:40.118 --> 08:55.295\n跟委員報告事實上我們也有注意到這種情形他大致上有提出一些原因啦但是我們覺得說還需要再跟他們進一步去做了解那有沒有改進的方法那我們事實上也有跟我們事實上所講\n\n08:56.716 --> 09:15.408\n以及有邀請他們到我們的聯席匯報做專案的報告就是請他們從工程交易監理執法這個面向提出一些改進的他們認為最大原因是什麼?臺中市政府認為最大的原因為什麼會臺中這麼糟糕這個這麼可恥的數字都跑出來了為什麼?\n\n09:16.116 --> 09:40.077\n目前初步他們是說他們的車輛數是有增加幅度比較多大概是有幾個原因所以車輛數量多就曝光度高啦但是這樣的一個基於人民安全的我覺得是值得再講的增加的台中市的車輛比例有跟台北市跟其他縣市比起來有跟這個成比例嗎\n\n09:42.469 --> 10:05.746\n你們覺得成比例嗎?就是我們市故事人家的兩倍,我們車輛有人家的兩倍嗎?不要吧,不到兩倍啦,快兩倍了,車輛有人家的快兩倍嗎?有嗎?我跟委員報告,這就是我們需要再進一步跟他們來探討的。OK,我今天特別提這個數字,我認為作為一個台中市的國會議員,應該來了解關心並要求這個事情啦。\n\n10:07.261 --> 10:34.238\n這個我在這裡講這個話因為我不是臺中市議員嘛臺中市有很大的責任但如果中央我們可以協助的事情或者我們中央應該督導的事情我請交通部一定要擔負起這個責任就地方政府他各自當然他你不能全部管他嘛市長重不重視他關不關心他認為臺中市的人命值不值錢這個市長他這個身負最大的責任\n\n10:35.342 --> 10:52.458\n但是我們不可以放任地方政府就是我們中央該有的去督導他去要求他或者甚至應該要協助他我覺得我們都應該要去做到或者我做一個台中市民我看到這個數字我覺得要怕死人說台中市市發生什麼事\n\n10:53.908 --> 11:07.304\n第二名才四萬七我們七萬二然後接著四萬六四萬四三萬六兩萬三當然台北市看起來很低嘛但不管怎麼樣人家都四三四萬嘛我們台中就要七萬多這數字極為不合極為誇張極為誇張\n\n11:13.150 --> 11:39.237\n所以請次長多多來關心一下啦好不好到底台中市發生什麼事情我希望你們也能夠一方面督導他然後如果我們中央是我們的權責該協助的我們不分黨派協助他因為這是台中市民的生命財產好不好謝謝補充一句話就是我們有派專家學者去就近去跟他們一起共同討論看如何解決OK謝謝謝謝次長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.413,"end":26.468,"text":"謝謝主席請陳政務次長請陳次長委員好次長早安早次長今天本席有兩個議題想要就教於次長第一個我想這麼多年來本席極力在爭取那個大安溪跟大甲溪橋的改建"},{"start":27.469,"end":47.503,"text":"那這兩個橋其實都已經到了應該要改建的這個年限或者這個狀況所以我們從這個104年開始會刊一路到今天那公路局的同仁也多次在我的辦公室會議室服務處我們都開過現場的會刊也做過相關的協調會議那本來預計116年"},{"start":54.528,"end":70.34,"text":"我們就可以來完工現在看起來因為包括物價上漲、缺工等等一大堆的問題所以應該目前最新的進度是118年那預估到118年請問市長這個預算上面你覺得有沒有問題因為我看起來總預算大概要60億吧70幾億"},{"start":85.505,"end":90.968,"text":"來 有沒有問題 預算上面 來局長確實 就是說當初原預估的預算那因為整個設計 設計之後大概包括這個原物料的一個這個提升 成本的提升所以我們現在設計之後的這個兩座橋梁的這個預估費用是72億多從60億變70幾億"},{"start":108.539,"end":130.591,"text":"那如果說因為局裡面的話是通案的計畫是這個省道改善計畫如果放在這邊的話當然就會影響到其他的省道的一個改善沒有錯所以我們是設計完之後的話就是這個經費可能在省改的計畫如果說要放在這邊的話也希望行政院就是說可以把我們的省改計畫規模再擴大所以這個部分我想我們會設計之後會提報這個經費的額度來跟行政院爭取局長我想"},{"start":138.936,"end":155.093,"text":"這個你很清楚就是說我擔心的跟你其實想像的是一樣啦就大概預算因為總共從60億變70幾億如果用省到這個改省改的預算的話那我擔心的就是你的預算規模如果不夠大他會排擠到其他嘛"},{"start":155.754,"end":174.811,"text":"那第二個所以我今天也做了一個臨時提案就是說建請可不可以把這個大安溪跟大甲溪橋的改建列一個專案這是兩條路啦當然這兩條路都要行政院啦所以本席提案是建請你們去做評估看哪一個方法是比較好"},{"start":175.451,"end":199.918,"text":"是擴大這個審改預算的規模來把大安溪大安溪橋做好還是另外一條路但是本席絕對不會走第三條路就是我請你放心我絕對不會寫一個這個條例我絕對不會寫一個大甲溪大安溪改建條例這一點是我跟國民黨最大的不同我都我從當副院長開始我循規蹈矩"},{"start":200.851,"end":217.37,"text":"依照權力分立的原則依照國家重大建設你們也要相關進行評估從可行性評估一路研議然後開始一直做做到現在你們大概10成都抓出來了然後也可以做了都沒有問題現在剩下錢"},{"start":218.331,"end":241.164,"text":"那錢呢怎麼來立法院委員不可以增加你們的預算所以我只能提一個建請案就我的臨時提了一個建請案建請什麼事情建請你們要想辦法要嘛行政院要做一個決定把審改的預算規模擴大或者大甲溪大安溪就列一個專案的預算來進行處理市長這樣可不可以"},{"start":242.095,"end":268.134,"text":"跟委員報告就是有關支持這個大甲大安溪的改建這個這一個委員所關心的事項交通部一定是全力支持包含公路總局公路局但是就有關經費的部分我們也很謝謝委員的一個提議我們會朝這個方向來處理但是呢我也跟委員報告其實這整個計畫的期程他的不是一年的所以即便是看到是其實我知道我知道他分年實施我知道"},{"start":268.994,"end":285.474,"text":"所以其實分年在編的時候當在審改裡頭它的經費也是有限但是整體上當然是先有一個專案的裁員大家會覺得比較心安但是如果就這個審改其實它是一個滾動檢討有很多的計畫也都是在這裡"},{"start":285.834,"end":290.575,"text":"市長今天的靈體只是讓你們去思考的方向多一個啦因為不管怎麼樣我知道就省改預算他也是分年執行嘛但是問題是局長他還是希望規模還是要擴大不管怎麼樣他還是一條蠻大的錢嘛"},{"start":312.961,"end":334.956,"text":"所以站在局長的角度他還是擔心排擠所以他希望能夠預算規模擴大所以不管怎樣錢一定要比以前多那到底把審改預算規模擴大比較好或者是我們列一個大甲溪大安溪的這個專案的預算請行政院來支持比較好所以我提了一個今天提了一個建請案一個臨時提案裡面建請你們來做這個評估所以你們趕快"},{"start":339.519,"end":353.752,"text":"這個我透過今天的決議也建請你們重視這個問題好不好但是千萬切記喔如果特別條例是可以的你要告訴我我講過嘛我有太多特別條例要提這個我也會寫啊大安溪大甲溪特別條例"},{"start":355.173,"end":381.537,"text":"就我要你們做,這個就,對不對,這不會通啦,所以我還是收幾句啦,我真認真要改善,因為大甲溪、大安溪在我們台中,做一個台中市民而言,這個是海線很重要的交通要道,每天經過那裡上班、下班,所以它的安全問題,它的這個美觀的問題,因為新的橋梁改建之後,我相信你們的設計,現在的橋梁設計都會有很有特色嘛,"},{"start":382.037,"end":403.505,"text":"所以我相信對地方的地警來講他幫忙也很大當然更重要就是安全跟方便好這是第一個我謝謝交通部來全力支持本席的這個計畫那第二個我看了一個報導我做一個台中市民我實在是有點難過我看了一下去年度六都的交通事故的一個統計表"},{"start":405.425,"end":426.852,"text":"這個作為臺中市民發現臺中市的事故排名第一也就算了就事故最多死傷也最多而且這個比例這個數字實在是太驚人了第二名的桃園事故事件臺中市是7萬2桃園第二名桃園市剩下4萬7"},{"start":429.158,"end":449.835,"text":"那當然臺北市只有兩萬三嘛那臺北市如果跟臺中市來比那個差距真的太遠了那以死傷人數來講臺中高達九萬六千多人第二名的六萬三所以人家第二名開始都很接近就只有臺中市最特殊事故最多死傷最嚴重我想請問部長"},{"start":454.724,"end":466.064,"text":"一個縣市的交通做不好事故那麼多臺中市有沒有跟交通部提出任何他們有什麼改進的計畫或者需求"},{"start":468.954,"end":498.335,"text":"我先簡單就是有關這樣的一個數據呈現其實交通部非常的關切所以我們在應該是在去年也有請臺中市特別到交通部來做專案的一個報告那當然還有另外一個我們也發現這樣的一個數據我們也正在會同相關的單位因為這個數據的呈現我們覺得他是在今年開始有一個大幅度的一個去年是嗎"},{"start":498.795,"end":518.09,"text":"去年就是有一大幅度我們覺得那個呃呃呈現是是有問題的所以我們也會會同呃相關單位尤其是警警政所來看他的統計的資料上是不是有些市長我的意思就是說臺中市做了一個專案報告之後第一個他們有沒有解釋什麼原因第二個更重要他們有沒有提出什麼改進的方法"},{"start":520.118,"end":535.295,"text":"跟委員報告事實上我們也有注意到這種情形他大致上有提出一些原因啦但是我們覺得說還需要再跟他們進一步去做了解那有沒有改進的方法那我們事實上也有跟我們事實上所講"},{"start":536.716,"end":555.408,"text":"以及有邀請他們到我們的聯席匯報做專案的報告就是請他們從工程交易監理執法這個面向提出一些改進的他們認為最大原因是什麼?臺中市政府認為最大的原因為什麼會臺中這麼糟糕這個這麼可恥的數字都跑出來了為什麼?"},{"start":556.116,"end":580.077,"text":"目前初步他們是說他們的車輛數是有增加幅度比較多大概是有幾個原因所以車輛數量多就曝光度高啦但是這樣的一個基於人民安全的我覺得是值得再講的增加的台中市的車輛比例有跟台北市跟其他縣市比起來有跟這個成比例嗎"},{"start":582.469,"end":605.746,"text":"你們覺得成比例嗎?就是我們市故事人家的兩倍,我們車輛有人家的兩倍嗎?不要吧,不到兩倍啦,快兩倍了,車輛有人家的快兩倍嗎?有嗎?我跟委員報告,這就是我們需要再進一步跟他們來探討的。OK,我今天特別提這個數字,我認為作為一個台中市的國會議員,應該來了解關心並要求這個事情啦。"},{"start":607.261,"end":634.238,"text":"這個我在這裡講這個話因為我不是臺中市議員嘛臺中市有很大的責任但如果中央我們可以協助的事情或者我們中央應該督導的事情我請交通部一定要擔負起這個責任就地方政府他各自當然他你不能全部管他嘛市長重不重視他關不關心他認為臺中市的人命值不值錢這個市長他這個身負最大的責任"},{"start":635.342,"end":652.458,"text":"但是我們不可以放任地方政府就是我們中央該有的去督導他去要求他或者甚至應該要協助他我覺得我們都應該要去做到或者我做一個台中市民我看到這個數字我覺得要怕死人說台中市市發生什麼事"},{"start":653.908,"end":667.304,"text":"第二名才四萬七我們七萬二然後接著四萬六四萬四三萬六兩萬三當然台北市看起來很低嘛但不管怎麼樣人家都四三四萬嘛我們台中就要七萬多這數字極為不合極為誇張極為誇張"},{"start":673.15,"end":699.237,"text":"所以請次長多多來關心一下啦好不好到底台中市發生什麼事情我希望你們也能夠一方面督導他然後如果我們中央是我們的權責該協助的我們不分黨派協助他因為這是台中市民的生命財產好不好謝謝補充一句話就是我們有派專家學者去就近去跟他們一起共同討論看如何解決OK謝謝謝謝次長謝謝"}]}}}}