{"id":152614,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152614","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/069b0cf7e017bc3058ffe902235f3d10c1296c2fd5de7bd8e01ba30ddb4afe0f0feb37a46d737cc75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈發惠","委員發言時間":"10:19:13 - 10:28:39","影片長度":"00:09:26","會議時間":"2024-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員馬文君等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅智強等29人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員黃健豪等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員涂權吉等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員王世堅等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條、第三百三十九條之三及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員葉元之等24人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（二）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（三）委員林月琴等17人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（四）委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（五）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（六）委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（七）委員吳宗憲等19人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n【第二案（七）如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","date":"2024-05-16","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":23,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-23"},"duration":566,"end_time":"2024-05-16T10:28:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-16T10:19:13+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":605,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（10時19分）主席，我們請黃次長。"],["黃次長謀信：委員好。"],["沈委員發惠：次長好，今天主席所安排的是兩個部分，一個部分是揭弊者保護法，另外一部分是刑法有關詐欺罪第三百三十九條、第三百三十九條之四的修正，基本上，這確實也是多年來民眾所關心的案子，所以今天安排這樣子的議程來討論，就是希望能夠儘快讓這樣子的法案進入我們立法的程序。有關揭弊者保護法，剛才前面的委員都有討論了，次長，雖然你是事務官，但是如果在質詢過程中對於政府有不實的指控，我認為次長身為政府機關的一分子，也應該要勇於表達。"],["黃次長謀信：當然。"],["沈委員發惠：有關揭弊者保護法，剛才謝龍介委員也都提到了，就是他希望揭弊者保護這個部分整個最後立法的結果，我們不講這個過程怎麼樣，但是對立法的結果希望能夠做到兩件事情，第一件事就是要公私分流，分流的意思不是說私部門不要處理，不是這樣，但是包括舉證責任倒置的這些相關規定在公部門跟私部門應該要做一些區別，也就是說，我們更加鼓勵公部門的吹哨者，所以跟私部門的吹哨者我覺得要做公私分流，這是第一件事，並不是說不要，而是要分流。第二，上市櫃公司跟中小企業也要分流，也就是說，都可以保護吹哨者，但是上市櫃公司跟中小企業的規定也要做區別，對這個部分次長同意嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：這個部分我是不是請我們廉政署署長說明？"],["沈委員發惠：好，請署長。"],["莊署長榮松：跟委員說明，因為其實這個是涉及立法政策的問題，那當然……"],["沈委員發惠：可不可以簡單說明？因為我後面還要問很多問題，請問我剛剛講的這樣對不對？"],["莊署長榮松：對。"],["沈委員發惠：就是公私分流，然後再來在私的部分，中小企業跟上市櫃公司也做分流，對他們做不同程度的吹哨者保護規定，這樣對不對？"],["莊署長榮松：這部分我們也贊同。"],["沈委員發惠：好，就是這樣啦！我希望整個立法過程要注意這個。至於剛才有人提到我們政府有一個草案，後來因為有金控公司來遊說蘇貞昌院長，所以蘇貞昌院長就喊停，然後說不要講中小企業，就是這些金控公司在反對。大家強調要白紙黑字，我這裡就是白紙黑字，社團法人中華民國中小企業總會林榮燦理事在你們廉政署所辦的這個揭弊者保護法草案立法研討會上面，就明確的代表中小企業說，全國150萬家中小企業，5人以下的公司占八成，不應納入揭弊者保護法，這是他們的主張，不是我的主張，是他們的主張，所以中小企業也明確反對不分流的揭弊者保護法嘛！所以這個部分你們就要勇於提出，不是什麼大金控公司，而是中小企業也對於如果沒有做公私分流，沒有做上市櫃公司與中小企業的分流，這樣的揭弊者保護法會出大問題啦！這個部分要勇於辯護，署長請回座。","接下來，今天另外一個部分也是大家非常關心的，有關於打詐的部分、關於刑法第三百三十九條修正的部分。就在昨天，我們的賴清德總統在民進黨中常會裡面明確指出，打詐是未來最優先施政，因此今天我們就在這個時候，其實是我們主席先排，不是說我們賴清德主席講完之後，我們召委才排這個案子，不是，我們召委本來就排了這個案子，針對刑法第三百三十九條的修正。不過，我在這裡要跟次長探討，因為就在上個禮拜，我們行政院院會通過了由內政部主政的詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案，還有法務部、相關部門的四個法案，對不對？就是所謂的打詐四法剛剛通過了。打詐四法當然有包括新的法令，包括詐欺犯罪危害防制條例、包括科技偵查及保障法，這是新的，兩個新的以及兩個舊法的修正，洗錢防制法跟通訊保障及監察法。","今天我們的議程是單就刑法第三百三十九條跟第三百三十九條之四兩個條文來進行刑度的提高，對不對？今天大概所有委員的提案都是這樣子，我個人也肯定主席今天安排這樣的議程，但同時我也希望，因為政府、行政院已經提出這個專法，其他三個法我不講，我就針對詐欺犯罪危害防制條例，行政院已經提出、通過這個專法的草案，這個專法未來跟刑法──如果今天單就刑法第三百三十九條跟第三百三十九條之四來做修正，我認為不夠嚴謹，而且也會有問題。我來做一個對照，如果我們今天就光修正刑法的話，它就是變成所有的詐欺樣態全部都一併提高刑度，對不對？但是事實上，行政院目前的詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案有區分危害程度，不同的危害程度分別提高刑責，對不對？是不是這樣，次長？"],["黃次長謀信：沒有錯，如同剛剛……"],["沈委員發惠：沒有錯嘛。今天如果就刑法第三百三十九條單獨來做修正的話，事實上它只是在調整刑度而已，但是我們目前的打詐專法是做整體的打詐考量，它有分為就源、溯源、防詐機制，甚至包括被害人保護，還有提高假釋門檻，這些全部都包括在我們的打詐四法裡面對不對？包括在我們詐欺犯罪危害防制條例裡面對不對？次長，對不對？"],["黃次長謀信：對。"],["沈委員發惠：所以我個人希望今天我們整個修法，大家做充分的討論之後，我們能夠等待行政院儘快將詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案送到立法院來，我們一併併案審查，大家就這些不同的詐欺犯罪態樣來做討論，不然的話會有什麼樣的狀況？大家現在當然對詐騙集團非常非常痛恨，所以要提高刑度變成全民的共識，但是我們如果不分行為樣態全部統統提高，那會變成什麼呢？會變成我在路邊，我們常常在車站看到有人來跟你說，我的錢包被偷了，你可以借我100塊坐車回家嗎？我整個錢包……結果是詐欺，他也必須要提高刑度到七年以下，會變成所有不分行為態樣全部統統提高，會造成這樣的結果，對不對？次長，對不對？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，沒有錯。"],["沈委員發惠：沒有錯嘛！所以我們應該就目前大家社會所關心、所痛恨的詐騙樣態，來進行額度的提高、刑度的提高，所以這個部分我是希望，我們今天也請主席不要說今天就保留，又保留送政黨協商，又表決，強行表決，保留送協商，我覺得不要，因為詐欺這個事情，現在詐欺專法也已經要送立法院了，我們還是用整個專法、整套的，刑法現在做的就只是對法務部的起訴跟法院的量刑有所規範而已，事實上整個專法牽涉到數位部、牽涉到NCC、牽涉到內政部，相關的這些部會統統有所牽涉，還包括金管會，所以它是全面的。我個人是不贊成今天我們草草就刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四來做修正，我個人是認為我們應該要比較周全，就是等待行政院的詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案送來之後一併審查，以上。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位我們請羅智強委員發言。","另外，主席這邊先作會議程序的宣告，稍後在莊委員瑞雄詢答完畢後，休息10分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-23","speakers":["吳宗憲","洪孟楷","徐欣瑩","林月琴","黃國昌","羅智強","王世堅","黃健豪","謝龍介","陳俊宇","沈發惠","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","沈伯洋","林思銘","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","賴士葆","牛煦庭","徐巧芯","翁曉玲"],"page_start":39,"meetingDate":["2024-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1134801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查( 一) 委員廖偉翔等18 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正\n草案」案、(三)委員馬文君等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條\n文修正草案」案、( 四) 委員羅智強等29 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」\n案、(五)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(六)委\n員蔡易餘等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(七)委員謝衣鳯等\n17 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、 ( 八 ) 委員洪孟楷等22 人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(九)委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十)委員涂權吉等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百\n三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、 ( 十一) 委員王世堅等22 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九\n條、第三百三十九條之三及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員謝衣鳯等17人擬\n具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三\n百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員葉元之等24人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中\n華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案；二、併案審查 ( 一 ) 委員廖偉翔等18 人擬具\n「揭弊者保護法草案」案、(二)委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案、(三)委員林月\n琴等17人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案、(四)委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」\n案、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案、(六)委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「揭弊\n者保護法草案」案、(七)委員吳宗憲等19人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案","agenda_id":"1134801_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152614","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152614","tool":"pyannote","id":"152614-pyannote"},"job_id":"64Pt93mKx7sgsMGZ","queued_at":"2024-05-30 22:20:00","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-30 22:20:00","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152614"},{"time":"2024-05-30 22:20:00","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/069b0cf7e017bc3058ffe902235f3d10c1296c2fd5de7bd82a84d04cc27196d6931d1867babebde95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-30 22:20:19","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-30 22:20:21","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-05-30 22:20:31","msg":"status: 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\"end\": 566.832, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"草\", \"start\": 566.832, \"end\": 566.852, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 566.852, \"end\": 566.913, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 566.913, \"end\": 566.934, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,427 --> 00:00:30,936\n主席我們請黃次長委員好次長好我想今天首先在這裡對於我們今天主席所安排的是兩個部分一個部分是接避者這個接避者保護法另外一部分是刑法有關詐欺罪的339條339條之四的修正\n\n2\n00:00:32,182 --> 00:00:35,486\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n3\n00:00:48,746 --> 00:01:11,128\n但是我這個這個有關接避者保護法齁這個剛才前面的委員都都有討論齁不過次長你雖然是事務官但是事實上在於如果說在過程中齁在質詢過程中如果有不實的指控齁對於政府不實的指控我認為說我們次長作為政府機關的一份子齁也應該要勇於的來表達齁\n\n4\n00:01:13,510 --> 00:01:33,988\n這個有關接避者保護法包括剛才謝榮介委員也都提到了這個目前大家最大的有有有一個部分就是他希望說接避者保護這個部分能夠整個立法最後立法的結果我們不講說這這個過程怎麼樣但立法的結果希望能夠做到兩件事情第一件事就是要公私分流\n\n5\n00:01:35,655 --> 00:02:04,254\n分流的意思不是說施部門不要處理不是但是他們可能在相關的在相關的這個這個包括舉證責任的這個這個導致包括相關的這些規定在公部門跟施部門應該要做一些區別這個是這個我們也就是說我們更加的鼓勵公部門的吹哨者這個這個跟施部門的吹哨者我覺得要做公私分流這是第一點是分流不是說不要是分流第二\n\n6\n00:02:05,506 --> 00:02:15,250\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n\n7\n00:02:24,329 --> 00:02:26,810\n公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流\n\n8\n00:02:43,994 --> 00:02:45,255\n三十九條之四條文修正草案案案。\n\n9\n00:03:14,514 --> 00:03:20,552\n他在你們原政署所辦的這個接避者保護法草案立法研討會上面\n\n10\n00:03:21,394 --> 00:03:30,097\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n\n11\n00:03:52,408 --> 00:03:54,550\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案。\n\n12\n00:04:14,692 --> 00:04:38,606\n總統他在在民進黨的中常會裡面他就明確的指出打詐是未來最優先的施政最優先的施政那因此呢今天這個我們就就在這個時候其實我們是我們主席先排啦不是說我們賴清德主席講完之後我們召委才排這個案子不是我們本來召委就排了這個案子針對這個這個刑法三百三十九條的修正\n\n13\n00:04:39,878 --> 00:04:44,747\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期\n\n14\n00:04:51,431 --> 00:05:20,516\n由內政部主政的這個這個詐欺犯罪防治詐欺犯罪危害防治條例還有我們法務部啦相關部門的四個法案對不對這個所謂所謂這個打砸釋法剛通過了吼那這打砸釋法當然有包括新的法令包括這個詐欺犯罪危害防治條例包括這個這個科技偵查保障法這個是新的兩個新的以及兩個舊法的修正洗錢防治法跟通訊保障監察法\n\n15\n00:05:24,344 --> 00:05:49,184\n民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案案。今天我們大概所有的委員提案就是這樣子那我個人是也肯定主席今天安排這樣的議程但同時我也希望就是說因為政府因為行政院已經提出了這個專法就其他三個法我不講我就針對詐欺犯罪\n\n16\n00:05:51,258 --> 00:05:52,639\n民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案。\n\n17\n00:06:12,244 --> 00:06:22,256\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等18人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會之四條文修正草案．立法院第12會期司法及法制委員會之四條文\n\n18\n00:06:31,767 --> 00:06:34,992\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案。\n\n19\n00:06:46,664 --> 00:06:50,946\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n\n20\n00:07:11,305 --> 00:07:16,866\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n\n21\n00:07:37,190 --> 00:08:04,696\n大家現在當然對詐騙集團非常非常痛恨所以要提高刑度變成全民的共識但是我們如果不分行為樣態全部通通提高那會變成什麼呢?會變成我在路邊我們常在車站看到有人來跟你說我錢包被偷了你可以借我借我一百塊多少回去存嗎?我整個錢包結果是詐騙他也必須要提高刑度到七年以下\n\n22\n00:08:06,001 --> 00:08:22,893\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n\n23\n00:08:28,917 --> 00:08:31,618\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n24\n00:08:55,026 --> 00:08:57,568\n民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案。\n\n25\n00:09:26,323 --> 00:09:26,934\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6427\t30936\t主席我們請黃次長委員好次長好我想今天首先在這裡對於我們今天主席所安排的是兩個部分一個部分是接避者這個接避者保護法另外一部分是刑法有關詐欺罪的339條339條之四的修正\n32182\t35486\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n48746\t71128\t但是我這個這個有關接避者保護法齁這個剛才前面的委員都都有討論齁不過次長你雖然是事務官但是事實上在於如果說在過程中齁在質詢過程中如果有不實的指控齁對於政府不實的指控我認為說我們次長作為政府機關的一份子齁也應該要勇於的來表達齁\n73510\t93988\t這個有關接避者保護法包括剛才謝榮介委員也都提到了這個目前大家最大的有有有一個部分就是他希望說接避者保護這個部分能夠整個立法最後立法的結果我們不講說這這個過程怎麼樣但立法的結果希望能夠做到兩件事情第一件事就是要公私分流\n95655\t124254\t分流的意思不是說施部門不要處理不是但是他們可能在相關的在相關的這個這個包括舉證責任的這個這個導致包括相關的這些規定在公部門跟施部門應該要做一些區別這個是這個我們也就是說我們更加的鼓勵公部門的吹哨者這個這個跟施部門的吹哨者我覺得要做公私分流這是第一點是分流不是說不要是分流第二\n125506\t135250\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n144329\t146810\t公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流\n163994\t165255\t三十九條之四條文修正草案案 案。\n194514\t200552\t他在你們原政署所辦的這個接避者保護法草案立法研討會上面\n201394\t210097\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n232408\t234550\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案 案。\n254692\t278606\t總統他在在民進黨的中常會裡面他就明確的指出打詐是未來最優先的施政最優先的施政那因此呢今天這個我們就就在這個時候其實我們是我們主席先排啦不是說我們賴清德主席講完之後我們召委才排這個案子不是我們本來召委就排了這個案子針對這個這個刑法三百三十九條的修正\n279878\t284747\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期\n291431\t320516\t由內政部主政的這個這個詐欺犯罪防治詐欺犯罪危害防治條例還有我們法務部啦相關部門的四個法案對不對這個所謂所謂這個打砸釋法剛通過了吼那這打砸釋法當然有包括新的法令包括這個詐欺犯罪危害防治條例包括這個這個科技偵查保障法這個是新的兩個新的以及兩個舊法的修正洗錢防治法跟通訊保障監察法\n324344\t349184\t民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案 案。今天我們大概所有的委員提案就是這樣子那我個人是也肯定主席今天安排這樣的議程但同時我也希望就是說因為政府因為行政院已經提出了這個專法就其他三個法我不講我就針對詐欺犯罪\n351258\t352639\t民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案 案。\n372244\t382256\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等18人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會之四條文修正草案．立法院第12會期司法及法制委員會之四條文\n391767\t394992\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案 案。\n406664\t410946\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n431305\t436866\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n457190\t484696\t大家現在當然對詐騙集團非常非常痛恨所以要提高刑度變成全民的共識但是我們如果不分行為樣態全部通通提高那會變成什麼呢?會變成我在路邊我們常在車站看到有人來跟你說我錢包被偷了你可以借我借我一百塊多少回去存嗎?我整個錢包結果是詐騙他也必須要提高刑度到七年以下\n486001\t502893\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n508917\t511618\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n535026\t537568\t民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案 。\n566323\t566934\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案 案。\n","txt":"主席我們請黃次長委員好次長好我想今天首先在這裡對於我們今天主席所安排的是兩個部分一個部分是接避者這個接避者保護法另外一部分是刑法有關詐欺罪的339條339條之四的修正\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n但是我這個這個有關接避者保護法齁這個剛才前面的委員都都有討論齁不過次長你雖然是事務官但是事實上在於如果說在過程中齁在質詢過程中如果有不實的指控齁對於政府不實的指控我認為說我們次長作為政府機關的一份子齁也應該要勇於的來表達齁\n這個有關接避者保護法包括剛才謝榮介委員也都提到了這個目前大家最大的有有有一個部分就是他希望說接避者保護這個部分能夠整個立法最後立法的結果我們不講說這這個過程怎麼樣但立法的結果希望能夠做到兩件事情第一件事就是要公私分流\n分流的意思不是說施部門不要處理不是但是他們可能在相關的在相關的這個這個包括舉證責任的這個這個導致包括相關的這些規定在公部門跟施部門應該要做一些區別這個是這個我們也就是說我們更加的鼓勵公部門的吹哨者這個這個跟施部門的吹哨者我覺得要做公私分流這是第一點是分流不是說不要是分流第二\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流\n三十九條之四條文修正草案案 案。\n他在你們原政署所辦的這個接避者保護法草案立法研討會上面\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案 案。\n總統他在在民進黨的中常會裡面他就明確的指出打詐是未來最優先的施政最優先的施政那因此呢今天這個我們就就在這個時候其實我們是我們主席先排啦不是說我們賴清德主席講完之後我們召委才排這個案子不是我們本來召委就排了這個案子針對這個這個刑法三百三十九條的修正\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期\n由內政部主政的這個這個詐欺犯罪防治詐欺犯罪危害防治條例還有我們法務部啦相關部門的四個法案對不對這個所謂所謂這個打砸釋法剛通過了吼那這打砸釋法當然有包括新的法令包括這個詐欺犯罪危害防治條例包括這個這個科技偵查保障法這個是新的兩個新的以及兩個舊法的修正洗錢防治法跟通訊保障監察法\n民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案 案。今天我們大概所有的委員提案就是這樣子那我個人是也肯定主席今天安排這樣的議程但同時我也希望就是說因為政府因為行政院已經提出了這個專法就其他三個法我不講我就針對詐欺犯罪\n民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案 案。\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等18人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會之四條文修正草案．立法院第12會期司法及法制委員會之四條文\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案 案。\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n大家現在當然對詐騙集團非常非常痛恨所以要提高刑度變成全民的共識但是我們如果不分行為樣態全部通通提高那會變成什麼呢?會變成我在路邊我們常在車站看到有人來跟你說我錢包被偷了你可以借我借我一百塊多少回去存嗎?我整個錢包結果是詐騙他也必須要提高刑度到七年以下\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案 。\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案 案。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.427 --> 00:30.936\n主席我們請黃次長委員好次長好我想今天首先在這裡對於我們今天主席所安排的是兩個部分一個部分是接避者這個接避者保護法另外一部分是刑法有關詐欺罪的339條339條之四的修正\n\n00:32.182 --> 00:35.486\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n00:48.746 --> 01:11.128\n但是我這個這個有關接避者保護法齁這個剛才前面的委員都都有討論齁不過次長你雖然是事務官但是事實上在於如果說在過程中齁在質詢過程中如果有不實的指控齁對於政府不實的指控我認為說我們次長作為政府機關的一份子齁也應該要勇於的來表達齁\n\n01:13.510 --> 01:33.988\n這個有關接避者保護法包括剛才謝榮介委員也都提到了這個目前大家最大的有有有一個部分就是他希望說接避者保護這個部分能夠整個立法最後立法的結果我們不講說這這個過程怎麼樣但立法的結果希望能夠做到兩件事情第一件事就是要公私分流\n\n01:35.655 --> 02:04.254\n分流的意思不是說施部門不要處理不是但是他們可能在相關的在相關的這個這個包括舉證責任的這個這個導致包括相關的這些規定在公部門跟施部門應該要做一些區別這個是這個我們也就是說我們更加的鼓勵公部門的吹哨者這個這個跟施部門的吹哨者我覺得要做公私分流這是第一點是分流不是說不要是分流第二\n\n02:05.506 --> 02:15.250\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n\n02:24.329 --> 02:26.810\n公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流\n\n02:43.994 --> 02:45.255\n三十九條之四條文修正草案案案。\n\n03:14.514 --> 03:20.552\n他在你們原政署所辦的這個接避者保護法草案立法研討會上面\n\n03:21.394 --> 03:30.097\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n\n03:52.408 --> 03:54.550\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案。\n\n04:14.692 --> 04:38.606\n總統他在在民進黨的中常會裡面他就明確的指出打詐是未來最優先的施政最優先的施政那因此呢今天這個我們就就在這個時候其實我們是我們主席先排啦不是說我們賴清德主席講完之後我們召委才排這個案子不是我們本來召委就排了這個案子針對這個這個刑法三百三十九條的修正\n\n04:39.878 --> 04:44.747\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期\n\n04:51.431 --> 05:20.516\n由內政部主政的這個這個詐欺犯罪防治詐欺犯罪危害防治條例還有我們法務部啦相關部門的四個法案對不對這個所謂所謂這個打砸釋法剛通過了吼那這打砸釋法當然有包括新的法令包括這個詐欺犯罪危害防治條例包括這個這個科技偵查保障法這個是新的兩個新的以及兩個舊法的修正洗錢防治法跟通訊保障監察法\n\n05:24.344 --> 05:49.184\n民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案案。今天我們大概所有的委員提案就是這樣子那我個人是也肯定主席今天安排這樣的議程但同時我也希望就是說因為政府因為行政院已經提出了這個專法就其他三個法我不講我就針對詐欺犯罪\n\n05:51.258 --> 05:52.639\n民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案。\n\n06:12.244 --> 06:22.256\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等18人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會之四條文修正草案．立法院第12會期司法及法制委員會之四條文\n\n06:31.767 --> 06:34.992\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案。\n\n06:46.664 --> 06:50.946\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n\n07:11.305 --> 07:16.866\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n\n07:37.190 --> 08:04.696\n大家現在當然對詐騙集團非常非常痛恨所以要提高刑度變成全民的共識但是我們如果不分行為樣態全部通通提高那會變成什麼呢?會變成我在路邊我們常在車站看到有人來跟你說我錢包被偷了你可以借我借我一百塊多少回去存嗎?我整個錢包結果是詐騙他也必須要提高刑度到七年以下\n\n08:06.001 --> 08:22.893\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n\n08:28.917 --> 08:31.618\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n08:55.026 --> 08:57.568\n民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案。\n\n09:26.323 --> 09:26.934\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.427,"end":30.936,"text":"主席我們請黃次長委員好次長好我想今天首先在這裡對於我們今天主席所安排的是兩個部分一個部分是接避者這個接避者保護法另外一部分是刑法有關詐欺罪的339條339條之四的修正"},{"start":32.182,"end":35.486,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．"},{"start":48.746,"end":71.128,"text":"但是我這個這個有關接避者保護法齁這個剛才前面的委員都都有討論齁不過次長你雖然是事務官但是事實上在於如果說在過程中齁在質詢過程中如果有不實的指控齁對於政府不實的指控我認為說我們次長作為政府機關的一份子齁也應該要勇於的來表達齁"},{"start":73.51,"end":93.988,"text":"這個有關接避者保護法包括剛才謝榮介委員也都提到了這個目前大家最大的有有有一個部分就是他希望說接避者保護這個部分能夠整個立法最後立法的結果我們不講說這這個過程怎麼樣但立法的結果希望能夠做到兩件事情第一件事就是要公私分流"},{"start":95.655,"end":124.254,"text":"分流的意思不是說施部門不要處理不是但是他們可能在相關的在相關的這個這個包括舉證責任的這個這個導致包括相關的這些規定在公部門跟施部門應該要做一些區別這個是這個我們也就是說我們更加的鼓勵公部門的吹哨者這個這個跟施部門的吹哨者我覺得要做公私分流這是第一點是分流不是說不要是分流第二"},{"start":125.506,"end":135.25,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員"},{"start":144.329,"end":146.81,"text":"公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流公司分流"},{"start":163.994,"end":165.255,"text":"三十九條之四條文修正草案案 案。"},{"start":194.514,"end":200.552,"text":"他在你們原政署所辦的這個接避者保護法草案立法研討會上面"},{"start":201.394,"end":210.097,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及"},{"start":232.408,"end":234.55,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案 案。"},{"start":254.692,"end":278.606,"text":"總統他在在民進黨的中常會裡面他就明確的指出打詐是未來最優先的施政最優先的施政那因此呢今天這個我們就就在這個時候其實我們是我們主席先排啦不是說我們賴清德主席講完之後我們召委才排這個案子不是我們本來召委就排了這個案子針對這個這個刑法三百三十九條的修正"},{"start":279.878,"end":284.747,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期"},{"start":291.431,"end":320.516,"text":"由內政部主政的這個這個詐欺犯罪防治詐欺犯罪危害防治條例還有我們法務部啦相關部門的四個法案對不對這個所謂所謂這個打砸釋法剛通過了吼那這打砸釋法當然有包括新的法令包括這個詐欺犯罪危害防治條例包括這個這個科技偵查保障法這個是新的兩個新的以及兩個舊法的修正洗錢防治法跟通訊保障監察法"},{"start":324.344,"end":349.184,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案 案。今天我們大概所有的委員提案就是這樣子那我個人是也肯定主席今天安排這樣的議程但同時我也希望就是說因為政府因為行政院已經提出了這個專法就其他三個法我不講我就針對詐欺犯罪"},{"start":351.258,"end":352.639,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案 案。"},{"start":372.244,"end":382.256,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會等18人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會之四條文修正草案．立法院第12會期司法及法制委員會之四條文"},{"start":391.767,"end":394.992,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案 案。"},{"start":406.664,"end":410.946,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及"},{"start":431.305,"end":436.866,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期"},{"start":457.19,"end":484.696,"text":"大家現在當然對詐騙集團非常非常痛恨所以要提高刑度變成全民的共識但是我們如果不分行為樣態全部通通提高那會變成什麼呢?會變成我在路邊我們常在車站看到有人來跟你說我錢包被偷了你可以借我借我一百塊多少回去存嗎?我整個錢包結果是詐騙他也必須要提高刑度到七年以下"},{"start":486.001,"end":502.893,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員"},{"start":508.917,"end":511.618,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．"},{"start":535.026,"end":537.568,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案案 。"},{"start":566.323,"end":566.934,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案 案。"}]}}}}