{"id":152623,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152623","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/069b0cf7e017bc306bd6851ced9405cefe2b63d20657b6c6e01ba30ddb4afe0fec0cca0d9de94f6a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"10:57:38 - 11:07:45","影片長度":"00:10:07","會議時間":"2024-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請僑務委員會、外交部、國家安全局報告「中共海外統戰工作對我僑務推展與邦交維持之影響及應處作為」，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-16","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-21"},"duration":607,"end_time":"2024-05-16T11:07:45+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-16T10:57:38+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":433,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（10時57分）請僑委會呂副委員長。"],["主席：請僑委會副委員長。"],["呂副委員長元榮：洪委員早安。"],["洪委員申翰：副委員長早。我想先跟大家分享一個數據，從1980年代開始以來，其實大家可以看到，中國移民海外的人數是急遽地在攀升；如果看2000年的話，它的數字是343萬；一直到2020年的話是775萬。相對地，其實臺灣移民海外的人數這幾年是遞減的趨勢，副委員長應該非常、非常清楚。我想問一個問題，就是在兩岸移民海外的人數有這樣劇烈的變動之下，我們可以想像對海外的僑團或僑社在結構上面其實也會產生一定的影響，尤其有些我們僑民的認定可能會跟中國有一些重複，針對這些影響我們僑團、僑社的組成及結構上面的變化，僑委會現在有準備好因應的做法嗎？"],["呂副委員長元榮：謝謝委員您的關心。中國在海外的移民的確是大量地增加，這個增加一定會產生……我們如果從歷史的趨勢來看，在1975年代就會產生一波包括從中南半島移到全世界各地，也造成僑社結構的改變，就是所謂的越、柬、寮的僑胞；之後在1997年也有一批；當然，在更早之前，就是大概1980年代……"],["洪委員申翰：副委員長，我現在問的是你們有沒有因應的做法。"],["呂副委員長元榮：好的。我在講說的確有這樣的變化，這個變化在兩個地方可以看出來，第一就是……"],["洪委員申翰：那我們因應的做法是什麼？"],["呂副委員長元榮：是，有關我們的因應做法，容許我把前面這兩句話跟您報告之後……第一就是會產生量變質變，第二是這些來的社團有認同的問題。中國移出來的僑民基本上的認同，因為從小就是在共產制度下長大的，所以我們對於這個部分他的認同應該要順其自然。我們的因應作為，我在今天的書面報告裡頭也有向大院提出來，第一，我們要去弘揚自由、民主的普世價值，要做出區隔，就是說我們跟中國是不一樣的，不一樣的地方在於我們是非常非常注重，而且我們以自由、民主的核心價值作為我們重要的追求目標，在這裡就可以看得出來，會去影響僑界，會去用自由民主理念來結合僑界。第二個做法就是說，我們應該要建立多元的平台，然後能夠深化僑界與我們的互動聯繫，這是我們的第二個因應作為。"],["洪委員申翰：副委員長，我這邊想請問，因為這段時間有很多國際的人權組織提出一個非常非常重要的嚴肅議題，叫做中國的跨境鎮壓的議題，我不知道副委員長有沒有聽過。"],["呂副委員長元榮：是，我曉得。Safeguard defenders。"],["洪委員申翰：這一個跨境鎮壓的議題，這一段時間其實很多國際人權組織其實也發布了很多的報告，比方說，依照西班牙的人權組織在談的中國海外秘密警察的非法境外鎮壓，目前中國在全球53個國家裡面設立了102個，他們叫做警僑事務服務站，大部分是在歐洲的地區，一開始他們可能打著協助僑胞就近換發證件、辦理出入境服務的名義，所以說這是他們海外的110，海外的警察局，副委員長，你認為這些警僑服務站，尤其是中國在海外設的特定警僑服務站，目前對我們的僑務工作有沒有影響？"],["呂副委員長元榮：在這個階段看起來，是以中國大陸的移民為主，以中國移民為主的時候，當然對我們來講，一定會產生一種外溢的效果。當然在所謂的天網、獵狐等等各種行動代號，他們說是為了反貪腐，追潛逃國外的人，其實這些是表面上的一個理由。"],["洪委員申翰：副委員長，你也說了，它會有外溢的影響，所以看起來是會有影響。"],["呂副委員長元榮：會有影響。"],["洪委員申翰：那我們對這個影響，我們的態度跟做法是什麼？"],["呂副委員長元榮：是，我們在這方面的因應，我們希望能夠有相關的資訊，因為這是屬於當地國主權的行為，所以一定要跟當地國的有關單位分享，比如說，美國聯邦調查局就正式去逮捕了警察祕密服務站。"],["洪委員申翰：那我們做了什麼嗎？他們的這些作法，是影響了當地國的主權，可是也影響到我們的僑民，他們要控制中國的僑民，可是剛剛也說了，中國的僑民也會影響到我們的僑民，這是我第一個問題，那這個做法，你剛剛也說會有外溢的影響，那我們的因應是什麼？我們的做法是什麼？"],["呂副委員長元榮：第一個，我們當然是要有幾個策略，我跟委員報告，我剛剛特別提到說，我們要去弘揚自由民主的價值，來跟我們僑界結合。"],["洪委員申翰：這不是弘揚自由民主價值可以處理的事情啊。"],["呂副委員長元榮：沒有，就是要去凸顯說……"],["洪委員申翰：我們有沒有僑民有受到這種海外的秘密警察或他們的警僑服務站的影響甚至監控？有沒有？"],["呂副委員長元榮：我從媒體上的報導看出來，它並不是公開的活動，它會用恐嚇的方式。"],["洪委員申翰：對啊，我們的僑民被恐嚇，那我們做了什麼嘛？"],["呂副委員長元榮：比如說他就說我不發簽證給你，或者是對你的親人……"],["洪委員申翰：副委員長，我都知道這些現象，但我問你，僑委會做了什麼嘛？"],["呂副委員長元榮：跟委員報告，這個方面，第一個，我們當然……"],["洪委員申翰：副委員長，我不是要請你來這邊做學術發表，我是要問你，這些是你的業務範圍，那你們做了什麼因應？"],["呂副委員長元榮：我們有促請海外要提高警覺，這是第一個，然後要藉由這個……"],["洪委員申翰：還有沒有別的？"],["呂副委員長元榮：比如說，法國巴黎發生了這個事情，我們網站被駭了，或是校長手機被這些不明人士入侵了，所以我們就通報當地的治安機關，這在外國是主權行為，不是我們可以……"],["洪委員申翰：副委員長，你這樣講，我會覺得好像沒有作為，不報警，不然要怎樣？難道不報警嗎？當然要報警，這不是最基本的嗎？如果只報警，那我聽不出來你們給了什麼協助。我剛剛花了這麼多時間，我真的沒有聽到僑委會針對這樣的全球正在關注的現象，給了什麼協助。我們有沒有給這些可能受到恐嚇，或受到監控，或受到騷擾的僑民，可以明確地讓他們知道我們可以提供什麼法律服務？我們有沒有跟當地的政府建立一個訊息互通、資訊共享的管道，大家互相提醒？有沒有把這個機制建立起來？我不知道有沒有。"],["呂副委員長元榮：我們這些管道都很暢通的。"],["洪委員申翰：我不是問你這個，我現在問你的是我們提供了什麼協助嘛。針對這一個現象，當大家都在關注這個議題的時候，甚至我還沒有講這個號稱是警僑服務站，但是在更多的時候是秘密警察。"],["呂副委員長元榮：甚至是間諜。"],["洪委員申翰：對。那我們做了什麼嘛。我們明明知道中國的僑民，也會影響到我們的僑民，影響會外溢的，你剛剛也說了，可是為什麼我聽不到具體應對的做法？"],["呂副委員長元榮：具體應對做法，第一，我們就是會適時提醒海外僑民……"],["洪委員申翰：宣揚自由民主的理念對處理這件事情有什麼幫助，我真的有點聽不懂。宣揚自由民主的理念當然是必要的，這也是我們核心價值所在，但我不覺得做這件事情就可以處理現在我們的僑民在外面可能會遇到的威脅跟影響啊。"],["呂副委員長元榮：是。我跟委員報告，其實我們剛剛報告裡有提到，我們的第二個策略就是說要連結主流社會，包含說在媒體方面……"],["洪委員申翰：連結哪一個主流社會？是當地的主流社會，還是臺灣的主流社會？那你用什麼方法去連結？"],["呂副委員長元榮：當地的主流社會。"],["洪委員申翰：那你怎麼連結？"],["呂副委員長元榮：當地主流社會指的是說當地人士，而不是說僑民社會。"],["洪委員申翰：那你怎麼去連結？我現在問你怎麼連結嘛。"],["呂副委員長元榮：連結主流社會有很多的管道，很多的僑民本身就是在主流社會裡面，所以我們會通過相當的通路，藉由這些通路，跟他們做連結。"],["洪委員申翰：副委員長，我很仔細地聽你們應對的方法跟內容，但是坦白說，我沒有聽到具體的做法，我自己是認為你們要不要在僑委會就正式地起一個專案，來面對接下來中國的境外鎮壓或海外鎮壓，不管現在有什麼現象，也包括我們該提供給我們的僑民什麼樣的協助，我們要跟當地的政府建立起什麼樣的互助的機制，全部都列得清清楚楚，讓我們的僑民如果在海外遇到這個狀況的話，至少知道我們的僑委會、我們的政府怎麼協助他，這應該沒有問題吧？"],["呂副委員長元榮：好的，我們帶回來做進一步的研究。"],["洪委員申翰：你剛剛講的內容，坦白說，我覺得太空泛了。"],["主席：好，謝謝。時間的關係……"],["洪委員申翰：好不好？這可以嗎？"],["呂副委員長元榮：是的。我們會帶回來研究。"],["洪委員申翰：多久時間可以把這個機制建立起來？兩個月可不可以？"],["呂副委員長元榮：三個月好不好？"],["洪委員申翰：三個月是不是？"],["呂副委員長元榮：我請我們的駐外單位……"],["洪委員申翰：我給你三個月，三個月內請提供報告到外交及國防委員會。好不好？謝謝。"],["呂副委員長元榮：是。"],["主席：謝謝。好，接下來請陳培瑜委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":38,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-21","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","王定宇","林楚茵","黃仁","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","洪申翰","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","麥玉珍"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1134801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會、外交部、國家安全局報告「中共海外統戰工作對我僑務推展與邦交維持之影響\n及應處作為」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134801_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"152623","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152623","tool":"pyannote","id":"152623-pyannote"},"job_id":"0V7VjYhPa9s0CXnY","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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0.745}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 579.522, \"end\": 579.882, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"僑\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 579.882, \"end\": 580.183, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 580.183, \"end\": 580.323, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 580.323, \"end\": 580.483, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 580.483, \"end\": 580.703, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 580.703, \"end\": 580.863, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 580.863, \"end\": 581.283, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 581.283, \"end\": 581.443, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 581.443, \"end\": 581.943, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 581.943, \"end\": 582.023, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 582.023, \"end\": 582.043, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"吧\", \"start\": 582.043, \"end\": 582.063, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 583.484, \"end\": 583.704, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 583.704, \"end\": 583.844, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 583.844, \"end\": 583.864, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 583.864, \"end\": 584.044, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 584.044, \"end\": 584.184, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 584.184, \"end\": 584.604, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 584.604, \"end\": 584.684, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 584.684, \"end\": 584.704, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,891 --> 00:00:27,061\n韓國瑜早安副委員長早我想大家先分享一個數據這是中國從1980年開始以來其實中國移民海外的人數大家可以看到其實是急劇的在攀升那如果看\n\n2\n00:00:28,321 --> 00:00:42,947\n兩千年的話他的數字是343萬那一直到2020年的話是775萬那相對的其實台灣移民海外的人數這幾年其實是遞減的趨勢我想這個委員長其實應該非常非常清楚\n\n3\n00:00:44,059 --> 00:01:03,688\n我想問一個問題是說在兩岸移民海外的人數在有這樣子劇烈的變動之下我們可以想像在海外的這些僑團或僑社它的結構上面其實也會產生一定的影響尤其有一些我們的僑民的認定可能會跟中國那邊其實有時候會有一些重複\n\n4\n00:01:05,645 --> 00:01:21,938\n這些影響在我們的僑團僑社的組成跟結構上面的變化我想僑委會我們現在有準備好因應的做法嗎?謝謝委員您的關心那中國在海外的移民的確是大量的增加\n\n5\n00:01:22,598 --> 00:01:46,488\n那這個增加呢,一定會產生,我們如果從歷史的趨勢來看,在1975年代就會產生一波的,包括從中南半島移到全世界各地,也造成橋設結構的改變,就是所謂的越減了的橋包。之後在1997年也有一批。當然在更早之前,就是大概1980年代。會長,我現在要問的是我們有沒有因應的做法,不是?好的。\n\n6\n00:01:47,228 --> 00:02:06,479\n所以我在講說的確有這樣的變化這個變化在兩個地方可以看出來那我們的因應做法是什麼我們的因應做法容許我把前面這兩句話跟你們報告之後第一就是說會產生量變質變第二是這些來的社團他有認同的問題\n\n7\n00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:31,112\n中國移出來的僑民基本上他的認同因為他從小就是在共產制度長大的所以我們對於這個部分他的認同我們應該要順其自然那我們的因應作為就是說我在今天的書面報告裡頭也有向我們大院提出來就是第一我們要去弘揚自有民主的普世價值要做出區隔就是說我們跟中國是不一樣的\n\n8\n00:02:31,792 --> 00:02:32,473\n我這邊想請問因為這段時間有很多國際的人權組織\n\n9\n00:03:00,476 --> 00:03:14,092\n他們其實提出一個非常非常重要而嚴肅的議題叫做中國的跨境鎮壓的議題我不知道副院長有沒有聽過是我曉得這一個跨境鎮壓的議題這段時間其實很多國際人員組織其實也發布了很多的報告\n\n10\n00:03:16,376 --> 00:03:26,385\n以西班牙人權組織為例,他談及中國海外秘密警察的非法境外鎮壓。目前中國在全球53個國家中設立了102個警橋事務服務站,大部分在歐洲。\n\n11\n00:03:36,636 --> 00:03:55,823\n一開始他們可能打著說我是讓他們就近換發證件辦理出入境服務所以甚至他說這是我們海外的110海外的警察局副院長你認為這些警僑服務站尤其中國在海外特定社警僑服務站目前對我們的僑務工作有沒有影響\n\n12\n00:03:56,863 --> 00:03:57,043\n會有影響\n\n13\n00:04:25,908 --> 00:04:54,430\n那我們對這個影響我們的態度跟做法是什麼是我們在這方面這個因應之下呢當然我們一方面我們也希望在當地國這是屬於當地國主權的行為希望能夠有相關的資訊一定要跟當地國的有關單位要去分享比如說美國在聯邦調查局就正式去逮捕了這個所謂警察秘密服務站那我們做了什麼嗎那我們因應\n\n14\n00:04:55,171 --> 00:05:15,547\n他們的這些做法這樣子他是影響了確實那個當地國的主權可是他也影響到我們的僑民啊他控制中國的僑民可是剛才也說了中國的僑民也會影響到我們的僑民這是我第一個問題嘛是那這個做法你剛才也說他會有外溢的影響嗎會有外溢的影響那我們的因應是什麼我們的做法是什麼嘛\n\n15\n00:05:16,568 --> 00:05:29,907\n第一個我們當然是要有幾個策略我跟中委跟委員報告我剛剛特別提到說我們要去弘揚自由民主的價值來跟我們僑界結合這不是弘揚自由民主價值可以出一個事情啊\n\n16\n00:05:31,806 --> 00:06:00,320\n我們有沒有僑民有受到這種海外的秘密警察或者是他們這個警僑服務站的影響甚至監控有沒有我從媒體上的報導看出來他並不是公開的活動他會用恐嚇的方式那對啊那我們的僑民被恐嚇那我們做了什麼嘛比如說他就說我不發簽證給你或是他在做我的親人等等我都知道這些現象\n\n17\n00:06:01,448 --> 00:06:18,040\n但我問你僑委會做了什麼嗎對我就說跟委員報告我們這個方面呢第一個我們當然是就如同說副院長我不是要請你來這邊做學術發表啊我是要問你這些是你的業務範圍那你們做了什麼因應\n\n18\n00:06:19,284 --> 00:06:43,803\n我們有促請海外要提高警覺這是第一個然後要藉由這個還有沒有別的像比如說法國巴黎發生了這個事情那我們網站被駭了或是校長手機被不明的人士所入侵了我們就通報當地的治安機關這在外國是主權行為不是我們第三國可以這樣講這樣我會覺得好像沒有作為\n\n19\n00:06:48,246 --> 00:06:58,872\n不報警不然要怎樣?難道不報警嗎?當然報警,這不是只是最基本的嗎?如果只報警,那我聽不出來給了什麼協助啊?\n\n20\n00:07:02,625 --> 00:07:27,186\n我們剛剛花了這麼多時間我真的沒有聽到僑民針對這樣子全球正在關注的現象給了什麼協助啊我們有沒有給這些可能受到恐嚇或受到監控或者是受到騷擾的僑民可以有明確的讓他知道我們可以提供你什麼法律服務我們有沒有跟當地的政府建立一個訊息互通資訊共享的管道大家互相提醒有沒有把這機制建立起來\n\n21\n00:07:34,803 --> 00:07:46,070\n我們提供了什麼協助嗎?針對這個現象當大家都在關注這個議題的時候甚至我還沒有講他是警察服務站更多時候是秘密警察甚至是間諜\n\n22\n00:07:47,984 --> 00:08:16,790\n那我們做了什麼嘛我們明明知道中國的僑民也會影響到我們的僑民影響會外溢的你剛才也說了可是為什麼我聽不到具體應對的做法具體應對做法第一我們就是會事實提醒海外的僑民宣揚自由民主的理念宣揚自由民主的理念對處理這個事情有什麼幫助我真的有點聽不出來這當然宣揚自由民主的理念是必要的這也是我們核心價值所在但我不覺得做這件事情就可以處理\n\n23\n00:08:18,383 --> 00:08:37,741\n現在我們在外面可能會遇到威脅跟影響啊我跟委員報告齁其實我們剛剛報告裡有提到說我們的第二個策略就是說要連結主流社會啦包含說在媒體方面連結哪一個主流社會是當地的主流社會還是台灣的主流社會那你用什麼方法去連結\n\n24\n00:08:39,182 --> 00:09:00,029\n當地的主流社會指的是說當地人士而不是說僑民社會如果連結主流社會有很多的管道很多的僑民他本身就是在主流社會裡面所以我們通過相當的通路藉由這些通路跟他們做連結\n\n25\n00:09:03,750 --> 00:09:20,753\n我這邊我大概聽了講我很仔細的聽你們應對的方法跟內容了但坦白說我沒有聽到具體的做法啦我自己是認為你們要不要在喬爾會就正式的起一個專案來去面對接下來中國在境外鎮壓或海外鎮壓\n\n26\n00:09:21,614 --> 00:09:42,063\n相對於不管是他現在有什麼現象也包括我們該提供給我們僑民什麼樣的協助我們要跟當地的政府建立起什麼樣子互助的機制全部都列得清清楚楚讓我們的僑民如果在海外遇到這個狀況的話他至少知道我們的僑委會我們的政府怎麼協助他這應該沒有問題吧\n\n27\n00:09:43,484 --> 00:09:44,704\n請提供報告到外交國防委員會\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3891\t27061\t韓國瑜早安副委員長早我想大家先分享一個數據這是中國從1980年開始以來其實中國移民海外的人數大家可以看到其實是急劇的在攀升那如果看\n28321\t42947\t兩千年的話他的數字是343萬那一直到2020年的話是775萬那相對的其實台灣移民海外的人數這幾年其實是遞減的趨勢我想這個委員長其實應該非常非常清楚\n44059\t63688\t我想問一個問題是說在兩岸移民海外的人數在有這樣子劇烈的變動之下我們可以想像在海外的這些僑團或僑社它的結構上面其實也會產生一定的影響尤其有一些我們的僑民的認定可能會跟中國那邊其實有時候會有一些重複\n65645\t81938\t這些影響在我們的僑團僑社的組成跟結構上面的變化我想僑委會我們現在有準備好因應的做法嗎?謝謝委員您的關心那中國在海外的移民的確是大量的增加\n82598\t106488\t那這個增加呢,一定會產生,我們如果從歷史的趨勢來看,在1975年代就會產生一波的,包括從中南半島移到全世界各地,也造成橋設結構的改變,就是所謂的越減了的橋包。之後在1997年也有一批。當然在更早之前,就是大概1980年代。會長,我現在要問的是我們有沒有因應的做法,不是?好的。\n107228\t126479\t所以我在講說的確有這樣的變化這個變化在兩個地方可以看出來那我們的因應做法是什麼我們的因應做法容許我把前面這兩句話跟你們報告之後第一就是說會產生量變質變第二是這些來的社團他有認同的問題\n127600\t151112\t中國移出來的僑民基本上他的認同因為他從小就是在共產制度長大的所以我們對於這個部分他的認同我們應該要順其自然那我們的因應作為就是說我在今天的書面報告裡頭也有向我們大院提出來就是第一我們要去弘揚自有民主的普世價值要做出區隔就是說我們跟中國是不一樣的\n151792\t152473\t我這邊想請問因為這段時間有很多國際的人權組織\n180476\t194092\t他們其實提出一個非常非常重要而嚴肅的議題叫做中國的跨境鎮壓的議題我不知道副院長有沒有聽過是我曉得這一個跨境鎮壓的議題這段時間其實很多國際人員組織其實也發布了很多的報告\n196376\t206385\t以西班牙人權組織為例,他談及中國海外秘密警察的非法境外鎮壓。目前中國在全球53個國家中設立了102個警橋事務服務站,大部分在歐洲。\n216636\t235823\t一開始他們可能打著說我是讓他們就近換發證件辦理出入境服務所以甚至他說這是我們海外的110海外的警察局副院長你認為這些警僑服務站尤其中國在海外特定社警僑服務站目前對我們的僑務工作有沒有影響\n236863\t237043\t會有影響\n265908\t294430\t那我們對這個影響我們的態度跟做法是什麼是我們在這方面這個因應之下呢當然我們一方面我們也希望在當地國這是屬於當地國主權的行為希望能夠有相關的資訊一定要跟當地國的有關單位要去分享比如說美國在聯邦調查局就正式去逮捕了這個所謂警察秘密服務站那我們做了什麼嗎那我們因應\n295171\t315547\t他們的這些做法這樣子他是影響了確實那個當地國的主權可是他也影響到我們的僑民啊他控制中國的僑民可是剛才也說了中國的僑民也會影響到我們的僑民這是我第一個問題嘛是那這個做法你剛才也說他會有外溢的影響嗎會有外溢的影響那我們的因應是什麼我們的做法是什麼嘛\n316568\t329907\t第一個我們當然是要有幾個策略我跟中委跟委員報告我剛剛特別提到說我們要去弘揚自由民主的價值來跟我們僑界結合這不是弘揚自由民主價值可以出一個事情啊\n331806\t360320\t我們有沒有僑民有受到這種海外的秘密警察或者是他們這個警僑服務站的影響甚至監控 有沒有我從媒體上的報導看出來他並不是公開的活動他會用恐嚇的方式那對啊 那我們的僑民被恐嚇 那我們做了什麼嘛比如說他就說我不發簽證給你或是他在做我的親人等等我都知道這些現象\n361448\t378040\t但我問你僑委會做了什麼嗎對我就說跟委員報告我們這個方面呢第一個我們當然是就如同說副院長我不是要請你來這邊做學術發表啊我是要問你這些是你的業務範圍那你們做了什麼因應\n379284\t403803\t我們有促請海外要提高警覺這是第一個然後要藉由這個還有沒有別的像比如說法國巴黎發生了這個事情那我們網站被駭了或是校長手機被不明的人士所入侵了我們就通報當地的治安機關這在外國是主權行為不是我們第三國可以這樣講這樣我會覺得好像沒有作為\n408246\t418872\t不報警不然要怎樣?難道不報警嗎?當然報警,這不是只是最基本的嗎?如果只報警,那我聽不出來給了什麼協助啊?\n422625\t447186\t我們剛剛花了這麼多時間我真的沒有聽到僑民針對這樣子全球正在關注的現象給了什麼協助啊我們有沒有給這些可能受到恐嚇或受到監控或者是受到騷擾的僑民可以有明確的讓他知道我們可以提供你什麼法律服務我們有沒有跟當地的政府建立一個訊息互通資訊共享的管道大家互相提醒有沒有把這機制建立起來\n454803\t466070\t我們提供了什麼協助嗎?針對這個現象當大家都在關注這個議題的時候甚至我還沒有講他是警察服務站更多時候是秘密警察甚至是間諜\n467984\t496790\t那我們做了什麼嘛我們明明知道中國的僑民也會影響到我們的僑民影響會外溢的你剛才也說了可是為什麼我聽不到具體應對的做法具體應對做法第一我們就是會事實提醒海外的僑民宣揚自由民主的理念宣揚自由民主的理念對處理這個事情有什麼幫助我真的有點聽不出來這當然宣揚自由民主的理念是必要的這也是我們核心價值所在但我不覺得做這件事情就可以處理\n498383\t517741\t現在我們在外面可能會遇到威脅跟影響啊我跟委員報告齁其實我們剛剛報告裡有提到說我們的第二個策略就是說要連結主流社會啦包含說在媒體方面連結哪一個主流社會是當地的主流社會還是台灣的主流社會那你用什麼方法去連結\n519182\t540029\t當地的主流社會指的是說當地人士而不是說僑民社會如果連結主流社會有很多的管道很多的僑民他本身就是在主流社會裡面所以我們通過相當的通路藉由這些通路跟他們做連結\n543750\t560753\t我這邊 我大概聽了講我很仔細的聽你們應對的方法跟內容了但坦白說我沒有聽到具體的做法啦我自己是認為你們要不要在喬爾會就正式的起一個專案來去面對接下來中國在境外鎮壓或海外鎮壓\n561614\t582063\t相對於不管是他現在有什麼現象也包括我們該提供給我們僑民什麼樣的協助我們要跟當地的政府建立起什麼樣子互助的機制全部都列得清清楚楚讓我們的僑民如果在海外遇到這個狀況的話他至少知道我們的僑委會我們的政府怎麼協助他這應該沒有問題吧\n583484\t584704\t請提供報告到外交國防委員會\n","txt":"韓國瑜早安副委員長早我想大家先分享一個數據這是中國從1980年開始以來其實中國移民海外的人數大家可以看到其實是急劇的在攀升那如果看\n兩千年的話他的數字是343萬那一直到2020年的話是775萬那相對的其實台灣移民海外的人數這幾年其實是遞減的趨勢我想這個委員長其實應該非常非常清楚\n我想問一個問題是說在兩岸移民海外的人數在有這樣子劇烈的變動之下我們可以想像在海外的這些僑團或僑社它的結構上面其實也會產生一定的影響尤其有一些我們的僑民的認定可能會跟中國那邊其實有時候會有一些重複\n這些影響在我們的僑團僑社的組成跟結構上面的變化我想僑委會我們現在有準備好因應的做法嗎?謝謝委員您的關心那中國在海外的移民的確是大量的增加\n那這個增加呢,一定會產生,我們如果從歷史的趨勢來看,在1975年代就會產生一波的,包括從中南半島移到全世界各地,也造成橋設結構的改變,就是所謂的越減了的橋包。之後在1997年也有一批。當然在更早之前,就是大概1980年代。會長,我現在要問的是我們有沒有因應的做法,不是?好的。\n所以我在講說的確有這樣的變化這個變化在兩個地方可以看出來那我們的因應做法是什麼我們的因應做法容許我把前面這兩句話跟你們報告之後第一就是說會產生量變質變第二是這些來的社團他有認同的問題\n中國移出來的僑民基本上他的認同因為他從小就是在共產制度長大的所以我們對於這個部分他的認同我們應該要順其自然那我們的因應作為就是說我在今天的書面報告裡頭也有向我們大院提出來就是第一我們要去弘揚自有民主的普世價值要做出區隔就是說我們跟中國是不一樣的\n我這邊想請問因為這段時間有很多國際的人權組織\n他們其實提出一個非常非常重要而嚴肅的議題叫做中國的跨境鎮壓的議題我不知道副院長有沒有聽過是我曉得這一個跨境鎮壓的議題這段時間其實很多國際人員組織其實也發布了很多的報告\n以西班牙人權組織為例,他談及中國海外秘密警察的非法境外鎮壓。目前中國在全球53個國家中設立了102個警橋事務服務站,大部分在歐洲。\n一開始他們可能打著說我是讓他們就近換發證件辦理出入境服務所以甚至他說這是我們海外的110海外的警察局副院長你認為這些警僑服務站尤其中國在海外特定社警僑服務站目前對我們的僑務工作有沒有影響\n會有影響\n那我們對這個影響我們的態度跟做法是什麼是我們在這方面這個因應之下呢當然我們一方面我們也希望在當地國這是屬於當地國主權的行為希望能夠有相關的資訊一定要跟當地國的有關單位要去分享比如說美國在聯邦調查局就正式去逮捕了這個所謂警察秘密服務站那我們做了什麼嗎那我們因應\n他們的這些做法這樣子他是影響了確實那個當地國的主權可是他也影響到我們的僑民啊他控制中國的僑民可是剛才也說了中國的僑民也會影響到我們的僑民這是我第一個問題嘛是那這個做法你剛才也說他會有外溢的影響嗎會有外溢的影響那我們的因應是什麼我們的做法是什麼嘛\n第一個我們當然是要有幾個策略我跟中委跟委員報告我剛剛特別提到說我們要去弘揚自由民主的價值來跟我們僑界結合這不是弘揚自由民主價值可以出一個事情啊\n我們有沒有僑民有受到這種海外的秘密警察或者是他們這個警僑服務站的影響甚至監控 有沒有我從媒體上的報導看出來他並不是公開的活動他會用恐嚇的方式那對啊 那我們的僑民被恐嚇 那我們做了什麼嘛比如說他就說我不發簽證給你或是他在做我的親人等等我都知道這些現象\n但我問你僑委會做了什麼嗎對我就說跟委員報告我們這個方面呢第一個我們當然是就如同說副院長我不是要請你來這邊做學術發表啊我是要問你這些是你的業務範圍那你們做了什麼因應\n我們有促請海外要提高警覺這是第一個然後要藉由這個還有沒有別的像比如說法國巴黎發生了這個事情那我們網站被駭了或是校長手機被不明的人士所入侵了我們就通報當地的治安機關這在外國是主權行為不是我們第三國可以這樣講這樣我會覺得好像沒有作為\n不報警不然要怎樣?難道不報警嗎?當然報警,這不是只是最基本的嗎?如果只報警,那我聽不出來給了什麼協助啊?\n我們剛剛花了這麼多時間我真的沒有聽到僑民針對這樣子全球正在關注的現象給了什麼協助啊我們有沒有給這些可能受到恐嚇或受到監控或者是受到騷擾的僑民可以有明確的讓他知道我們可以提供你什麼法律服務我們有沒有跟當地的政府建立一個訊息互通資訊共享的管道大家互相提醒有沒有把這機制建立起來\n我們提供了什麼協助嗎?針對這個現象當大家都在關注這個議題的時候甚至我還沒有講他是警察服務站更多時候是秘密警察甚至是間諜\n那我們做了什麼嘛我們明明知道中國的僑民也會影響到我們的僑民影響會外溢的你剛才也說了可是為什麼我聽不到具體應對的做法具體應對做法第一我們就是會事實提醒海外的僑民宣揚自由民主的理念宣揚自由民主的理念對處理這個事情有什麼幫助我真的有點聽不出來這當然宣揚自由民主的理念是必要的這也是我們核心價值所在但我不覺得做這件事情就可以處理\n現在我們在外面可能會遇到威脅跟影響啊我跟委員報告齁其實我們剛剛報告裡有提到說我們的第二個策略就是說要連結主流社會啦包含說在媒體方面連結哪一個主流社會是當地的主流社會還是台灣的主流社會那你用什麼方法去連結\n當地的主流社會指的是說當地人士而不是說僑民社會如果連結主流社會有很多的管道很多的僑民他本身就是在主流社會裡面所以我們通過相當的通路藉由這些通路跟他們做連結\n我這邊 我大概聽了講我很仔細的聽你們應對的方法跟內容了但坦白說我沒有聽到具體的做法啦我自己是認為你們要不要在喬爾會就正式的起一個專案來去面對接下來中國在境外鎮壓或海外鎮壓\n相對於不管是他現在有什麼現象也包括我們該提供給我們僑民什麼樣的協助我們要跟當地的政府建立起什麼樣子互助的機制全部都列得清清楚楚讓我們的僑民如果在海外遇到這個狀況的話他至少知道我們的僑委會我們的政府怎麼協助他這應該沒有問題吧\n請提供報告到外交國防委員會\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.891 --> 00:27.061\n韓國瑜早安副委員長早我想大家先分享一個數據這是中國從1980年開始以來其實中國移民海外的人數大家可以看到其實是急劇的在攀升那如果看\n\n00:28.321 --> 00:42.947\n兩千年的話他的數字是343萬那一直到2020年的話是775萬那相對的其實台灣移民海外的人數這幾年其實是遞減的趨勢我想這個委員長其實應該非常非常清楚\n\n00:44.059 --> 01:03.688\n我想問一個問題是說在兩岸移民海外的人數在有這樣子劇烈的變動之下我們可以想像在海外的這些僑團或僑社它的結構上面其實也會產生一定的影響尤其有一些我們的僑民的認定可能會跟中國那邊其實有時候會有一些重複\n\n01:05.645 --> 01:21.938\n這些影響在我們的僑團僑社的組成跟結構上面的變化我想僑委會我們現在有準備好因應的做法嗎?謝謝委員您的關心那中國在海外的移民的確是大量的增加\n\n01:22.598 --> 01:46.488\n那這個增加呢,一定會產生,我們如果從歷史的趨勢來看,在1975年代就會產生一波的,包括從中南半島移到全世界各地,也造成橋設結構的改變,就是所謂的越減了的橋包。之後在1997年也有一批。當然在更早之前,就是大概1980年代。會長,我現在要問的是我們有沒有因應的做法,不是?好的。\n\n01:47.228 --> 02:06.479\n所以我在講說的確有這樣的變化這個變化在兩個地方可以看出來那我們的因應做法是什麼我們的因應做法容許我把前面這兩句話跟你們報告之後第一就是說會產生量變質變第二是這些來的社團他有認同的問題\n\n02:07.600 --> 02:31.112\n中國移出來的僑民基本上他的認同因為他從小就是在共產制度長大的所以我們對於這個部分他的認同我們應該要順其自然那我們的因應作為就是說我在今天的書面報告裡頭也有向我們大院提出來就是第一我們要去弘揚自有民主的普世價值要做出區隔就是說我們跟中國是不一樣的\n\n02:31.792 --> 02:32.473\n我這邊想請問因為這段時間有很多國際的人權組織\n\n03:00.476 --> 03:14.092\n他們其實提出一個非常非常重要而嚴肅的議題叫做中國的跨境鎮壓的議題我不知道副院長有沒有聽過是我曉得這一個跨境鎮壓的議題這段時間其實很多國際人員組織其實也發布了很多的報告\n\n03:16.376 --> 03:26.385\n以西班牙人權組織為例,他談及中國海外秘密警察的非法境外鎮壓。目前中國在全球53個國家中設立了102個警橋事務服務站,大部分在歐洲。\n\n03:36.636 --> 03:55.823\n一開始他們可能打著說我是讓他們就近換發證件辦理出入境服務所以甚至他說這是我們海外的110海外的警察局副院長你認為這些警僑服務站尤其中國在海外特定社警僑服務站目前對我們的僑務工作有沒有影響\n\n03:56.863 --> 03:57.043\n會有影響\n\n04:25.908 --> 04:54.430\n那我們對這個影響我們的態度跟做法是什麼是我們在這方面這個因應之下呢當然我們一方面我們也希望在當地國這是屬於當地國主權的行為希望能夠有相關的資訊一定要跟當地國的有關單位要去分享比如說美國在聯邦調查局就正式去逮捕了這個所謂警察秘密服務站那我們做了什麼嗎那我們因應\n\n04:55.171 --> 05:15.547\n他們的這些做法這樣子他是影響了確實那個當地國的主權可是他也影響到我們的僑民啊他控制中國的僑民可是剛才也說了中國的僑民也會影響到我們的僑民這是我第一個問題嘛是那這個做法你剛才也說他會有外溢的影響嗎會有外溢的影響那我們的因應是什麼我們的做法是什麼嘛\n\n05:16.568 --> 05:29.907\n第一個我們當然是要有幾個策略我跟中委跟委員報告我剛剛特別提到說我們要去弘揚自由民主的價值來跟我們僑界結合這不是弘揚自由民主價值可以出一個事情啊\n\n05:31.806 --> 06:00.320\n我們有沒有僑民有受到這種海外的秘密警察或者是他們這個警僑服務站的影響甚至監控有沒有我從媒體上的報導看出來他並不是公開的活動他會用恐嚇的方式那對啊那我們的僑民被恐嚇那我們做了什麼嘛比如說他就說我不發簽證給你或是他在做我的親人等等我都知道這些現象\n\n06:01.448 --> 06:18.040\n但我問你僑委會做了什麼嗎對我就說跟委員報告我們這個方面呢第一個我們當然是就如同說副院長我不是要請你來這邊做學術發表啊我是要問你這些是你的業務範圍那你們做了什麼因應\n\n06:19.284 --> 06:43.803\n我們有促請海外要提高警覺這是第一個然後要藉由這個還有沒有別的像比如說法國巴黎發生了這個事情那我們網站被駭了或是校長手機被不明的人士所入侵了我們就通報當地的治安機關這在外國是主權行為不是我們第三國可以這樣講這樣我會覺得好像沒有作為\n\n06:48.246 --> 06:58.872\n不報警不然要怎樣?難道不報警嗎?當然報警,這不是只是最基本的嗎?如果只報警,那我聽不出來給了什麼協助啊?\n\n07:02.625 --> 07:27.186\n我們剛剛花了這麼多時間我真的沒有聽到僑民針對這樣子全球正在關注的現象給了什麼協助啊我們有沒有給這些可能受到恐嚇或受到監控或者是受到騷擾的僑民可以有明確的讓他知道我們可以提供你什麼法律服務我們有沒有跟當地的政府建立一個訊息互通資訊共享的管道大家互相提醒有沒有把這機制建立起來\n\n07:34.803 --> 07:46.070\n我們提供了什麼協助嗎?針對這個現象當大家都在關注這個議題的時候甚至我還沒有講他是警察服務站更多時候是秘密警察甚至是間諜\n\n07:47.984 --> 08:16.790\n那我們做了什麼嘛我們明明知道中國的僑民也會影響到我們的僑民影響會外溢的你剛才也說了可是為什麼我聽不到具體應對的做法具體應對做法第一我們就是會事實提醒海外的僑民宣揚自由民主的理念宣揚自由民主的理念對處理這個事情有什麼幫助我真的有點聽不出來這當然宣揚自由民主的理念是必要的這也是我們核心價值所在但我不覺得做這件事情就可以處理\n\n08:18.383 --> 08:37.741\n現在我們在外面可能會遇到威脅跟影響啊我跟委員報告齁其實我們剛剛報告裡有提到說我們的第二個策略就是說要連結主流社會啦包含說在媒體方面連結哪一個主流社會是當地的主流社會還是台灣的主流社會那你用什麼方法去連結\n\n08:39.182 --> 09:00.029\n當地的主流社會指的是說當地人士而不是說僑民社會如果連結主流社會有很多的管道很多的僑民他本身就是在主流社會裡面所以我們通過相當的通路藉由這些通路跟他們做連結\n\n09:03.750 --> 09:20.753\n我這邊我大概聽了講我很仔細的聽你們應對的方法跟內容了但坦白說我沒有聽到具體的做法啦我自己是認為你們要不要在喬爾會就正式的起一個專案來去面對接下來中國在境外鎮壓或海外鎮壓\n\n09:21.614 --> 09:42.063\n相對於不管是他現在有什麼現象也包括我們該提供給我們僑民什麼樣的協助我們要跟當地的政府建立起什麼樣子互助的機制全部都列得清清楚楚讓我們的僑民如果在海外遇到這個狀況的話他至少知道我們的僑委會我們的政府怎麼協助他這應該沒有問題吧\n\n09:43.484 --> 09:44.704\n請提供報告到外交國防委員會\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.891,"end":27.061,"text":"韓國瑜早安副委員長早我想大家先分享一個數據這是中國從1980年開始以來其實中國移民海外的人數大家可以看到其實是急劇的在攀升那如果看"},{"start":28.321,"end":42.947,"text":"兩千年的話他的數字是343萬那一直到2020年的話是775萬那相對的其實台灣移民海外的人數這幾年其實是遞減的趨勢我想這個委員長其實應該非常非常清楚"},{"start":44.059,"end":63.688,"text":"我想問一個問題是說在兩岸移民海外的人數在有這樣子劇烈的變動之下我們可以想像在海外的這些僑團或僑社它的結構上面其實也會產生一定的影響尤其有一些我們的僑民的認定可能會跟中國那邊其實有時候會有一些重複"},{"start":65.645,"end":81.938,"text":"這些影響在我們的僑團僑社的組成跟結構上面的變化我想僑委會我們現在有準備好因應的做法嗎?謝謝委員您的關心那中國在海外的移民的確是大量的增加"},{"start":82.598,"end":106.488,"text":"那這個增加呢,一定會產生,我們如果從歷史的趨勢來看,在1975年代就會產生一波的,包括從中南半島移到全世界各地,也造成橋設結構的改變,就是所謂的越減了的橋包。之後在1997年也有一批。當然在更早之前,就是大概1980年代。會長,我現在要問的是我們有沒有因應的做法,不是?好的。"},{"start":107.228,"end":126.479,"text":"所以我在講說的確有這樣的變化這個變化在兩個地方可以看出來那我們的因應做法是什麼我們的因應做法容許我把前面這兩句話跟你們報告之後第一就是說會產生量變質變第二是這些來的社團他有認同的問題"},{"start":127.6,"end":151.112,"text":"中國移出來的僑民基本上他的認同因為他從小就是在共產制度長大的所以我們對於這個部分他的認同我們應該要順其自然那我們的因應作為就是說我在今天的書面報告裡頭也有向我們大院提出來就是第一我們要去弘揚自有民主的普世價值要做出區隔就是說我們跟中國是不一樣的"},{"start":151.792,"end":152.473,"text":"我這邊想請問因為這段時間有很多國際的人權組織"},{"start":180.476,"end":194.092,"text":"他們其實提出一個非常非常重要而嚴肅的議題叫做中國的跨境鎮壓的議題我不知道副院長有沒有聽過是我曉得這一個跨境鎮壓的議題這段時間其實很多國際人員組織其實也發布了很多的報告"},{"start":196.376,"end":206.385,"text":"以西班牙人權組織為例,他談及中國海外秘密警察的非法境外鎮壓。目前中國在全球53個國家中設立了102個警橋事務服務站,大部分在歐洲。"},{"start":216.636,"end":235.823,"text":"一開始他們可能打著說我是讓他們就近換發證件辦理出入境服務所以甚至他說這是我們海外的110海外的警察局副院長你認為這些警僑服務站尤其中國在海外特定社警僑服務站目前對我們的僑務工作有沒有影響"},{"start":236.863,"end":237.043,"text":"會有影響"},{"start":265.908,"end":294.43,"text":"那我們對這個影響我們的態度跟做法是什麼是我們在這方面這個因應之下呢當然我們一方面我們也希望在當地國這是屬於當地國主權的行為希望能夠有相關的資訊一定要跟當地國的有關單位要去分享比如說美國在聯邦調查局就正式去逮捕了這個所謂警察秘密服務站那我們做了什麼嗎那我們因應"},{"start":295.171,"end":315.547,"text":"他們的這些做法這樣子他是影響了確實那個當地國的主權可是他也影響到我們的僑民啊他控制中國的僑民可是剛才也說了中國的僑民也會影響到我們的僑民這是我第一個問題嘛是那這個做法你剛才也說他會有外溢的影響嗎會有外溢的影響那我們的因應是什麼我們的做法是什麼嘛"},{"start":316.568,"end":329.907,"text":"第一個我們當然是要有幾個策略我跟中委跟委員報告我剛剛特別提到說我們要去弘揚自由民主的價值來跟我們僑界結合這不是弘揚自由民主價值可以出一個事情啊"},{"start":331.806,"end":360.32,"text":"我們有沒有僑民有受到這種海外的秘密警察或者是他們這個警僑服務站的影響甚至監控 有沒有我從媒體上的報導看出來他並不是公開的活動他會用恐嚇的方式那對啊 那我們的僑民被恐嚇 那我們做了什麼嘛比如說他就說我不發簽證給你或是他在做我的親人等等我都知道這些現象"},{"start":361.448,"end":378.04,"text":"但我問你僑委會做了什麼嗎對我就說跟委員報告我們這個方面呢第一個我們當然是就如同說副院長我不是要請你來這邊做學術發表啊我是要問你這些是你的業務範圍那你們做了什麼因應"},{"start":379.284,"end":403.803,"text":"我們有促請海外要提高警覺這是第一個然後要藉由這個還有沒有別的像比如說法國巴黎發生了這個事情那我們網站被駭了或是校長手機被不明的人士所入侵了我們就通報當地的治安機關這在外國是主權行為不是我們第三國可以這樣講這樣我會覺得好像沒有作為"},{"start":408.246,"end":418.872,"text":"不報警不然要怎樣?難道不報警嗎?當然報警,這不是只是最基本的嗎?如果只報警,那我聽不出來給了什麼協助啊?"},{"start":422.625,"end":447.186,"text":"我們剛剛花了這麼多時間我真的沒有聽到僑民針對這樣子全球正在關注的現象給了什麼協助啊我們有沒有給這些可能受到恐嚇或受到監控或者是受到騷擾的僑民可以有明確的讓他知道我們可以提供你什麼法律服務我們有沒有跟當地的政府建立一個訊息互通資訊共享的管道大家互相提醒有沒有把這機制建立起來"},{"start":454.803,"end":466.07,"text":"我們提供了什麼協助嗎?針對這個現象當大家都在關注這個議題的時候甚至我還沒有講他是警察服務站更多時候是秘密警察甚至是間諜"},{"start":467.984,"end":496.79,"text":"那我們做了什麼嘛我們明明知道中國的僑民也會影響到我們的僑民影響會外溢的你剛才也說了可是為什麼我聽不到具體應對的做法具體應對做法第一我們就是會事實提醒海外的僑民宣揚自由民主的理念宣揚自由民主的理念對處理這個事情有什麼幫助我真的有點聽不出來這當然宣揚自由民主的理念是必要的這也是我們核心價值所在但我不覺得做這件事情就可以處理"},{"start":498.383,"end":517.741,"text":"現在我們在外面可能會遇到威脅跟影響啊我跟委員報告齁其實我們剛剛報告裡有提到說我們的第二個策略就是說要連結主流社會啦包含說在媒體方面連結哪一個主流社會是當地的主流社會還是台灣的主流社會那你用什麼方法去連結"},{"start":519.182,"end":540.029,"text":"當地的主流社會指的是說當地人士而不是說僑民社會如果連結主流社會有很多的管道很多的僑民他本身就是在主流社會裡面所以我們通過相當的通路藉由這些通路跟他們做連結"},{"start":543.75,"end":560.753,"text":"我這邊 我大概聽了講我很仔細的聽你們應對的方法跟內容了但坦白說我沒有聽到具體的做法啦我自己是認為你們要不要在喬爾會就正式的起一個專案來去面對接下來中國在境外鎮壓或海外鎮壓"},{"start":561.614,"end":582.063,"text":"相對於不管是他現在有什麼現象也包括我們該提供給我們僑民什麼樣的協助我們要跟當地的政府建立起什麼樣子互助的機制全部都列得清清楚楚讓我們的僑民如果在海外遇到這個狀況的話他至少知道我們的僑委會我們的政府怎麼協助他這應該沒有問題吧"},{"start":583.484,"end":584.704,"text":"請提供報告到外交國防委員會"}]}}}}