{"id":152649,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152649","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/069b0cf7e017bc3031740823ef59527ec1296c2fd5de7bd8e01ba30ddb4afe0fa3b7e37fb90921e15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"11:47:27 - 11:57:38","影片長度":"00:10:11","會議時間":"2024-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員馬文君等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅智強等29人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員黃健豪等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員涂權吉等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員王世堅等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條、第三百三十九條之三及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員葉元之等24人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（二）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（三）委員林月琴等17人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（四）委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（五）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（六）委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（七）委員吳宗憲等19人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n【第二案（七）如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","date":"2024-05-16","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":23,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-23"},"duration":611,"end_time":"2024-05-16T11:57:38+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-16T11:47:27+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":933,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（11時47分）謝謝召委。有請法務部蔡部長。司法院今天是誰出席？陳信旗副廳長嗎？"],["主席：請部長、副廳長。"],["蔡部長清祥：委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長，今天是最後一次質詢你。其實我看在立法院也很好玩，你看這麼多委員的案件透過整個議場這樣質詢，大家可以看得出來，每一個人見解會有所不同，也不用刻意去跟他講法律素養，關於強制辯護案件，為什麼會有強制辯護案件？"],["蔡部長清祥：當然他是罪責比較重嘛！"],["莊委員瑞雄：重罪。"],["蔡部長清祥：希望要有辯護人能夠維護他法律上的權益。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是啊！所以在立法院他就會把你惡意解讀成，唉喲！這個犯罪的人你還幫他請律師，天啊！有時候整部刑事訴訟法的翻修是集法界、實務大家共同得到的一些經驗，但是碰到政治有時候會有理講不清。","我在這個地方必須要來針對立法院所關心的，過去從第9屆就開始審查，到第10屆，整個揭弊者保護法草案到第9屆的時候因為屆期不連續，這就比較可惜了，就沒有結論。碰到上一屆屆期不連續，隨後我看行政院、司法院及法務部也針對法條再去做討論，也就是說，政府對這一部法令，其實從101年廉政署就已經針對立法去做研究，新政府上來以後也召開了那麼多次的會議，在108年行政院通過揭弊者保護法的草案，沒有成功。","可是我們來看，事實上今年我看法務部也呈報第15版送行政院去做審查，一個重大法案的推動，你過程其實要考慮的面向真的很多，所以我也希望今天立法院的諸公，這些政治家可以來多做一些思考，到底揭弊者這一部保護法的公益揭露應該是要公部門先行，還是單軌？我在這個地方要就教法務部跟司法院，你們的看法到底是什麼？行政院我知道，本來是想說公部門這部分先行，那你們現在的態度是什麼？"],["蔡部長清祥：最早我們也是希望公部門先行，後來有意見認為說公私並行，所以我們再重新整理，把公部門跟私部門揭弊者保護的相關條文再融入。但是現在又遇到了困難，就是有很多不同的意見，所以又回歸到最初，我們說那公部門比較沒有爭議，我們就先提出來。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我現在擔心的是什麼？比如說台灣民眾黨黃國昌委員跟召委吳宗憲委員他們的版本對於證人的保護，這個本席都認同，我相信在立法院大家也會同意，但是在第七條中有提及，不只是針對揭弊者本人的保護，配合弊案之調查跟擔任證人的部分也都在其中，我比較擔心的是什麼呢？臺灣民間的中小企業就有163萬家，超過了98%，九成八都是中小企業，比如說一個企業裡面只有10個人，那有人去吹哨，有人去舉報，真假不知道，好啦！一個公司裡面，8個人要配合調查，然後當證人受到保護，以不調離現職跟調整職務的前提之下，對公司的營運一定會影響很大，到最後如果調查是沒有不法，我跟你說，整個公司差不多都「去了了」了。","我另外一個擔心的是什麼？比如說這些黑函的問題，私人企業其實跟公部門不一樣，你公部門是說一個廉能的政府，這個大家都認同，這是基於公益。如果是私人企業的話，它本來就是以營利為目標，在私人企業裡面基於鬥爭或者是競爭對手的攻擊，到最後，比如說你一發動，假設一家食品公司遭到檢舉，說採購原料的主管收受了原廠商的不法資金，買了不合格的原物料，消息曝光以後，消費大眾的第一個想法是什麼？拒買！公司商譽也必定受損，那你經過冗長的一、兩年調查完以後，哇！沒有，是對手的攻擊，這個都很難去回復，甚至有部分的員工都已經遭到資遣了。","政府可以承擔風險是因為它本來就有足夠的能量，但是針對98%這些中小企業的部分，部長，我不知道你們有沒有去想到中小企業這麼脆弱要承擔風險的問題，或者是針對修法你們會提出怎麼樣的建議跟預防？"],["蔡部長清祥：現在如果決定用公部門先行的話，對私部門我們會用行政指導來幫助它做內部的一些揭弊保護的工作，那成熟了以後，要再立在法律裡面，我們再做下一階段的修法。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以你們的態度也同樣是這樣。"],["蔡部長清祥：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：其實我們在談的，這整部法令大家擔憂的就是承擔風險能力的問題啦！承擔風險能力，你政府部門沒有問題啊！政府部門我剛剛提過了，大家期待你廉能，全國人民認為政府本來就是公益的啊！那問題就是說，在各個政府、各個機構裡面，很多的機關裡面，其實它本身的政風部門還是比較完整的，所以你說要去吹哨，國人都同意，但是你只要去講到萬一面對中小企業，譬如說只有10人的這個部分，我到現在還是非常非常地擔憂，所以部長，你們提到說公部門先行運作以後，我們也可以去參考不同的契約關係，後續在揭弊的保護，工作權跟回復具體的情況來做適用的話，這個其實都可以作為我們以後的參考。","你看日本、歐盟，它提這個概念其實就跟部長剛剛提到的很類似，它的公部門跟私部門確實就分開囉！所以我想要提一個比較具體的案例，比如說2005年戴立紳那個案子，新竹那個案子，到最後你看他任職在新竹家畜疾病防治所，他也跟很多公務人員一樣，苦讀啊！到最後他考上啦！當他的長官不斷要求他做假帳、公費私用，他良心也發現啦！他去吹哨啦！然後去調查啦！法官最後給他判的是什麼？免刑。哇！他多倒楣你知道嗎？他免刑也一樣啊！新竹縣政府也把他免職啊！那你把他免職以後，他重新要再當公務人員的機會就沒有了。","我講這個案例的意思是說，我們通過這樣的一個法案，也真的必須要去考量到臺灣的現狀，98%的中小企業如果接受揭弊者保護，動彈不得，我現在怕的是這個，他們承受風險的能力。你說戴立紳那是個案，如果說私部門的部分通過以後，背後影響的是上百萬的家庭耶！司法院你們的看法是什麼？"],["陳副廳長信旗：因為揭弊者保護法並不是司法院的權責，我們的態度是只要符合反貪腐公約的規範精神，權衡臺灣整體的狀況之下，我們都尊重權責機關的酌處。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你說的這個，我怎麼會不知道反貪腐？我現在是說一部法律修出來之後，對整個社會現狀的衝擊啦！大家說吹哨，大家說揭弊，這個人民都同意，我講的是我們設計這個法律出來以後的衝擊。","剛才有人在罵部長，說臺灣變成一個詐騙的國家，你們法務部該怎麼辦？照我來看，確實是像部長所講的，就是速辦啊！嚴辦啊！就是這樣子一直在辦啊！這叫做人性的貪婪面，你說全部的重罪都把它拉高到一倍，甚至去判處死刑，人民聽了會很爽，但這個都是反智啊！這個本席都反對，這一種我都反對，好像法律是萬能，全部都是重刑好像就可以遏止了，會去搞詐騙的人叫做「欲食毋討趁」，他要暴利啦！他想到的不會是後面那一些法律效果，他哪會想到這一些？也不是你法務部可以重辦的啊！你把他起訴了，法官到底要不要審判都不一定呢！你看性侵害犯罪，男法官跟女法官判出來的刑度就完全不同啦！財產犯罪，有被詐騙過的跟沒有被詐騙過的，那個感受不同，每一個法官心證判下來，刑責也都完全不同啊！所以我不苛責法務部，但是我們要加強去讓這個執法符合社會的期待，這個倒是應該啦！所以這是最後一次，在這裡跟部長說「莎喲娜拉」，珍重！辛苦了！"],["蔡部長清祥：謝謝委員的指教跟指導。"],["莊委員瑞雄：辛苦了。"],["蔡部長清祥：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請吳思瑤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-23","speakers":["吳宗憲","洪孟楷","徐欣瑩","林月琴","黃國昌","羅智強","王世堅","黃健豪","謝龍介","陳俊宇","沈發惠","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","沈伯洋","林思銘","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","賴士葆","牛煦庭","徐巧芯","翁曉玲"],"page_start":39,"meetingDate":["2024-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1134801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查( 一) 委員廖偉翔等18 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正\n草案」案、(三)委員馬文君等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條\n文修正草案」案、( 四) 委員羅智強等29 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」\n案、(五)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(六)委\n員蔡易餘等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(七)委員謝衣鳯等\n17 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、 ( 八 ) 委員洪孟楷等22 人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(九)委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十)委員涂權吉等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百\n三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、 ( 十一) 委員王世堅等22 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九\n條、第三百三十九條之三及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員謝衣鳯等17人擬\n具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三\n百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員葉元之等24人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中\n華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案；二、併案審查 ( 一 ) 委員廖偉翔等18 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603.497, \"end\": 603.517, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,339 --> 00:00:03,522\n另外,做議程的宣告,上午的會議時間繼續進行致議程討論事項的處理。\n\n2\n00:00:21,914 --> 00:00:30,220\n三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第4會期司法及法制委員會第5會期司法及法制委員會第6會期司法及法制委員會第7會期司法及法制委員會\n\n3\n00:00:45,227 --> 00:00:57,494\n當然他是罪責比較重希望要有辯護人能夠維護他的法律上的權益所以在立法院他就會把你惡意解讀成哎喲這個犯罪的人你還幫他請律師\n\n4\n00:00:59,125 --> 00:01:04,769\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n5\n00:01:28,726 --> 00:01:33,549\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n6\n00:01:57,825 --> 00:02:12,275\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一．委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一．委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一\n\n7\n00:02:22,602 --> 00:02:30,247\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆\n\n8\n00:02:32,998 --> 00:02:37,021\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n\n9\n00:02:57,958 --> 00:03:23,837\n但是現在又遇到的困難就是很多的不同意見所以又回歸到最初我們說公部門比較沒有爭議那我們就先提出來我現在擔心的是什麼你像譬如說黃國昌臺灣民政黨黃國昌委員跟趙偉吳宗憲委員他們的版本對於證人的一個保護這個本席都認同我相信在立法院大家也會同意但是在第七條中他也提及不只是針對接避者本人的保護\n\n10\n00:03:24,817 --> 00:03:29,883\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n\n11\n00:03:47,133 --> 00:03:55,396\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n\n12\n00:04:04,346 --> 00:04:12,168\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n\n13\n00:04:23,476 --> 00:04:31,701\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期司法及法制委員會第14會期司法及法制委員會第16會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期\n\n14\n00:04:50,692 --> 00:04:54,476\n公私商域也一必定具受損,那你經過我們冗長的一兩年的調查完以後啊,哇?沒!\n\n15\n00:04:58,356 --> 00:05:04,297\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n\n16\n00:05:25,033 --> 00:05:36,250\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n\n17\n00:05:40,757 --> 00:05:48,782\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一�\n\n18\n00:06:09,915 --> 00:06:21,580\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第\n\n19\n00:06:38,336 --> 00:06:40,798\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n20\n00:07:01,684 --> 00:07:10,486\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n\n21\n00:07:31,536 --> 00:07:59,394\n我講的這種案例裡面就是說我們通過這樣的一個法案也真的必須要去考量到台灣的現狀98%這些中小企業如果是接受接避者保護動彈不得我現在怕的是這個承受風險的能力你說代理省那一個案你如果說公司部門的部分通過以後背後影響的是上百萬的家庭\n\n22\n00:08:01,175 --> 00:08:05,058\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具\n\n23\n00:08:21,769 --> 00:08:25,594\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員\n\n24\n00:08:41,954 --> 00:08:48,581\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員\n\n25\n00:08:57,669 --> 00:09:26,270\n這個叫做人性的貪婪面啊你說全部的重罪都把他拉高到一倍甚至去判處處刑人民聽了會很爽啊但這個都做反制啊這個本席都反對啊這種我都反對啊好像是這個法律是萬能全部都是重刑就好像就可以遏止了會去搞詐騙的人那叫做要吃不脫痰他要暴力啊他想到的不會是後面那一些法律效果啦他哪會想到這一些也不是你法務部可以重辦的啊\n\n26\n00:09:28,864 --> 00:09:32,247\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法\n\n27\n00:09:53,323 --> 00:10:03,517\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n339\t3522\t另外,做議程的宣告,上午的會議時間繼續進行致議程討論事項的處理。\n21914\t30220\t三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第4會期司法及法制委員會第5會期司法及法制委員會第6會期司法及法制委員會第7會期司法及法制委員會\n45227\t57494\t當然他是罪責比較重希望要有辯護人能夠維護他的法律上的權益所以在立法院他就會把你惡意解讀成哎喲這個犯罪的人你還幫他請律師\n59125\t64769\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n88726\t93549\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n117825\t132275\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一．委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一．委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一\n142602\t150247\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆\n152998\t157021\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n177958\t203837\t但是現在又遇到的困難就是很多的不同意見所以又回歸到最初我們說公部門比較沒有爭議那我們就先提出來我現在擔心的是什麼你像譬如說黃國昌臺灣民政黨黃國昌委員跟趙偉吳宗憲委員他們的版本對於證人的一個保護這個本席都認同我相信在立法院大家也會同意但是在第七條中他也提及不只是針對接避者本人的保護\n204817\t209883\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n227133\t235396\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n244346\t252168\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n263476\t271701\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期司法及法制委員會第14會期司法及法制委員會第16會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期\n290692\t294476\t公私商域也一必定具受損,那你經過我們冗長的一兩年的調查完以後啊,哇?沒!\n298356\t304297\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n325033\t336250\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n340757\t348782\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一�\n369915\t381580\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第\n398336\t400798\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n421684\t430486\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n451536\t479394\t我講的這種案例裡面就是說我們通過這樣的一個法案也真的必須要去考量到台灣的現狀98%這些中小企業如果是接受接避者保護動彈不得我現在怕的是這個承受風險的能力你說代理省那一個案你如果說公司部門的部分通過以後背後影響的是上百萬的家庭\n481175\t485058\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具\n501769\t505594\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員\n521954\t528581\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員\n537669\t566270\t這個叫做人性的貪婪面啊你說全部的重罪都把他拉高到一倍甚至去判處處刑人民聽了會很爽啊但這個都做反制啊這個本席都反對啊這種我都反對啊好像是這個法律是萬能全部都是重刑就好像就可以遏止了會去搞詐騙的人那叫做要吃不脫痰他要暴力啊他想到的不會是後面那一些法律效果啦他哪會想到這一些也不是你法務部可以重辦的啊\n568864\t572247\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法\n593323\t603517\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法\n","txt":"另外,做議程的宣告,上午的會議時間繼續進行致議程討論事項的處理。\n三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第4會期司法及法制委員會第5會期司法及法制委員會第6會期司法及法制委員會第7會期司法及法制委員會\n當然他是罪責比較重希望要有辯護人能夠維護他的法律上的權益所以在立法院他就會把你惡意解讀成哎喲這個犯罪的人你還幫他請律師\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一．委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一．委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n但是現在又遇到的困難就是很多的不同意見所以又回歸到最初我們說公部門比較沒有爭議那我們就先提出來我現在擔心的是什麼你像譬如說黃國昌臺灣民政黨黃國昌委員跟趙偉吳宗憲委員他們的版本對於證人的一個保護這個本席都認同我相信在立法院大家也會同意但是在第七條中他也提及不只是針對接避者本人的保護\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期司法及法制委員會第14會期司法及法制委員會第16會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期\n公私商域也一必定具受損,那你經過我們冗長的一兩年的調查完以後啊,哇?沒!\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一�\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n我講的這種案例裡面就是說我們通過這樣的一個法案也真的必須要去考量到台灣的現狀98%這些中小企業如果是接受接避者保護動彈不得我現在怕的是這個承受風險的能力你說代理省那一個案你如果說公司部門的部分通過以後背後影響的是上百萬的家庭\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員\n這個叫做人性的貪婪面啊你說全部的重罪都把他拉高到一倍甚至去判處處刑人民聽了會很爽啊但這個都做反制啊這個本席都反對啊這種我都反對啊好像是這個法律是萬能全部都是重刑就好像就可以遏止了會去搞詐騙的人那叫做要吃不脫痰他要暴力啊他想到的不會是後面那一些法律效果啦他哪會想到這一些也不是你法務部可以重辦的啊\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.339 --> 00:03.522\n另外,做議程的宣告,上午的會議時間繼續進行致議程討論事項的處理。\n\n00:21.914 --> 00:30.220\n三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第4會期司法及法制委員會第5會期司法及法制委員會第6會期司法及法制委員會第7會期司法及法制委員會\n\n00:45.227 --> 00:57.494\n當然他是罪責比較重希望要有辯護人能夠維護他的法律上的權益所以在立法院他就會把你惡意解讀成哎喲這個犯罪的人你還幫他請律師\n\n00:59.125 --> 01:04.769\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n01:28.726 --> 01:33.549\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n01:57.825 --> 02:12.275\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一．委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一．委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一\n\n02:22.602 --> 02:30.247\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆\n\n02:32.998 --> 02:37.021\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n\n02:57.958 --> 03:23.837\n但是現在又遇到的困難就是很多的不同意見所以又回歸到最初我們說公部門比較沒有爭議那我們就先提出來我現在擔心的是什麼你像譬如說黃國昌臺灣民政黨黃國昌委員跟趙偉吳宗憲委員他們的版本對於證人的一個保護這個本席都認同我相信在立法院大家也會同意但是在第七條中他也提及不只是針對接避者本人的保護\n\n03:24.817 --> 03:29.883\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n\n03:47.133 --> 03:55.396\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n\n04:04.346 --> 04:12.168\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n\n04:23.476 --> 04:31.701\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期司法及法制委員會第14會期司法及法制委員會第16會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期\n\n04:50.692 --> 04:54.476\n公私商域也一必定具受損,那你經過我們冗長的一兩年的調查完以後啊,哇?沒!\n\n04:58.356 --> 05:04.297\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n\n05:25.033 --> 05:36.250\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n\n05:40.757 --> 05:48.782\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一�\n\n06:09.915 --> 06:21.580\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第\n\n06:38.336 --> 06:40.798\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n07:01.684 --> 07:10.486\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及\n\n07:31.536 --> 07:59.394\n我講的這種案例裡面就是說我們通過這樣的一個法案也真的必須要去考量到台灣的現狀98%這些中小企業如果是接受接避者保護動彈不得我現在怕的是這個承受風險的能力你說代理省那一個案你如果說公司部門的部分通過以後背後影響的是上百萬的家庭\n\n08:01.175 --> 08:05.058\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具\n\n08:21.769 --> 08:25.594\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員\n\n08:41.954 --> 08:48.581\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員\n\n08:57.669 --> 09:26.270\n這個叫做人性的貪婪面啊你說全部的重罪都把他拉高到一倍甚至去判處處刑人民聽了會很爽啊但這個都做反制啊這個本席都反對啊這種我都反對啊好像是這個法律是萬能全部都是重刑就好像就可以遏止了會去搞詐騙的人那叫做要吃不脫痰他要暴力啊他想到的不會是後面那一些法律效果啦他哪會想到這一些也不是你法務部可以重辦的啊\n\n09:28.864 --> 09:32.247\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法\n\n09:53.323 --> 10:03.517\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.339,"end":3.522,"text":"另外,做議程的宣告,上午的會議時間繼續進行致議程討論事項的處理。"},{"start":21.914,"end":30.22,"text":"三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第4會期司法及法制委員會第5會期司法及法制委員會第6會期司法及法制委員會第7會期司法及法制委員會"},{"start":45.227,"end":57.494,"text":"當然他是罪責比較重希望要有辯護人能夠維護他的法律上的權益所以在立法院他就會把你惡意解讀成哎喲這個犯罪的人你還幫他請律師"},{"start":59.125,"end":64.769,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．"},{"start":88.726,"end":93.549,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．"},{"start":117.825,"end":132.275,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一．委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一．委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一"},{"start":142.602,"end":150.247,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆"},{"start":152.998,"end":157.021,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會"},{"start":177.958,"end":203.837,"text":"但是現在又遇到的困難就是很多的不同意見所以又回歸到最初我們說公部門比較沒有爭議那我們就先提出來我現在擔心的是什麼你像譬如說黃國昌臺灣民政黨黃國昌委員跟趙偉吳宗憲委員他們的版本對於證人的一個保護這個本席都認同我相信在立法院大家也會同意但是在第七條中他也提及不只是針對接避者本人的保護"},{"start":204.817,"end":209.883,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會"},{"start":227.133,"end":235.396,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期"},{"start":244.346,"end":252.168,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及"},{"start":263.476,"end":271.701,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會第13屆第14會期司法及法制委員會第14會期司法及法制委員會第16會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期司法及法制委員會第17會期"},{"start":290.692,"end":294.476,"text":"公私商域也一必定具受損,那你經過我們冗長的一兩年的調查完以後啊,哇?沒!"},{"start":298.356,"end":304.297,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及"},{"start":325.033,"end":336.25,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期"},{"start":340.757,"end":348.782,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一�"},{"start":369.915,"end":381.58,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第"},{"start":398.336,"end":400.798,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．"},{"start":421.684,"end":430.486,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及"},{"start":451.536,"end":479.394,"text":"我講的這種案例裡面就是說我們通過這樣的一個法案也真的必須要去考量到台灣的現狀98%這些中小企業如果是接受接避者保護動彈不得我現在怕的是這個承受風險的能力你說代理省那一個案你如果說公司部門的部分通過以後背後影響的是上百萬的家庭"},{"start":481.175,"end":485.058,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具"},{"start":501.769,"end":505.594,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員"},{"start":521.954,"end":528.581,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員"},{"start":537.669,"end":566.27,"text":"這個叫做人性的貪婪面啊你說全部的重罪都把他拉高到一倍甚至去判處處刑人民聽了會很爽啊但這個都做反制啊這個本席都反對啊這種我都反對啊好像是這個法律是萬能全部都是重刑就好像就可以遏止了會去搞詐騙的人那叫做要吃不脫痰他要暴力啊他想到的不會是後面那一些法律效果啦他哪會想到這一些也不是你法務部可以重辦的啊"},{"start":568.864,"end":572.247,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法"},{"start":593.323,"end":603.517,"text":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法"}]}}}}