{"id":152651,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152651","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/069b0cf7e017bc30e9f2753c506ee506c1296c2fd5de7bd8e01ba30ddb4afe0fc77db01c455e67005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"12:08:10 - 12:16:29","影片長度":"00:08:19","會議時間":"2024-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員馬文君等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅智強等29人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員黃健豪等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員涂權吉等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員王世堅等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條、第三百三十九條之三及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員葉元之等24人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（二）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（三）委員林月琴等17人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（四）委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（五）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（六）委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（七）委員吳宗憲等19人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n【第二案（七）如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","date":"2024-05-16","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":23,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-23"},"duration":499,"end_time":"2024-05-16T12:16:29+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-16T12:08:10+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":999,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時8分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["蔡部長清祥：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。今天本席所提案的揭弊者保護法草案，楊瓊瓔跟我們同仁等21人，針對這一個揭弊法我們認為是有必要的，而且必須要去設一個專法來協助社會大眾，所以特別在第十七條裡頭明定了罰責，我們也希望在逐條討論的時候能夠得到行政部門以及各位同仁的支持。","本席要請教，針對揭弊者保護法，政府告訴我們研議中、研議中、研議中，每一次我們問都是說研議中，累計到目前為止，研議了7年，行政院版還沒有送出來到底是為什麼？卡在哪裡？什麼原因呢？請做說明。"],["蔡部長清祥：跟委員說明一下，最早我們法務部提出的版本是公部門有關的揭弊先立法，私部門的部分另外處理，但是後來有不同的聲音認為公、私部門都要一起來，所以我們又提出了另外一個版本，那後來又屆期不連續，所以又重新研擬。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：重新來，到現在。"],["蔡部長清祥：到最後，最近又有一個確定的政策就是還是公部門先行，私部門的部分就是做行政的指導，最後是這樣的一個結論，我們也總共提出了15個版本。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你自己看到了，你從原本的公先私再來，又打了你一下，說要公、私一起來，到現在又回復只有公，私是協助，那你自己認為這個行政團隊到底出了什麼問題？因為一改再改、一騙再騙，到目前為止，我們的社會是更緊張，人民更不安心，你要不要給新的政府什麼建議？"],["蔡部長清祥：因為……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一個研議、研議、研議，研議了7年，所有的立委的版本都進來，7年還看不到版本，你要不要給他們什麼新的建議？"],["蔡部長清祥：確實是很多不同的意見，所以大家很審慎地在討論，我們法務部也是做幕僚作業，我們有很快速地……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你也是非常無奈，是不是？我講出你的心裡話，對不對？"],["蔡部長清祥：我們也很快，我們在103年就提出了第一個版本。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：103年提出，到現在中華民國一百一十幾年，對不對？你很無奈，所以這個政府到底出了什麼問題？"],["蔡部長清祥：不是無奈，我們是審慎。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為以結果論來看，民眾是更可憐，民眾得不到政府來做他的靠山，民眾目前為止不知所措，所以我要給社會大眾知道，政府研議，研議了7年到現在還沒有出來，不知道什麼時候會出來，所以本席跟你討論，揭弊者在我們的現行法規裡頭，散居在刑事、勞動、食安、金融等等等等等，那保護的對象、適用的情事、命令的層級都有不同的狀態，也不夠周延，在這樣的情況之下，我們有條件，而且政府有責任，更有這個義務要保護揭弊者的權利，來設揭弊者保護法，這個是非常的重要，你認同嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：我們認同。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：認同。好，接下來，我們再來討論，因為總統蔡英文小姐在2017年就承諾要立專法，但是到現在都沒有出來，就誠如你說的，103年到現在。那麼陳建仁院長在面對質詢的時候，他講了3到4次的「研議中」，7年過去了，我們只有看到朝野的版本，我們看不到行政部門的版本，你也非常的無奈，作為一個幕僚者是如此，所以本席要請教，揭弊的範圍跟揭弊的動機，尤其是揭弊的動機，是不是要納入這個系統裡頭來考量？請做說明。"],["蔡部長清祥：細節的問題，我們廉政署是主管機關比較清楚，是不是請他說明一下？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，請說明揭弊的動機要不要納入在考量之中，請做說明。"],["莊署長榮松：只要是能夠揭發重大弊案、公務員貪瀆的話，我想這個我們都是鼓勵的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：都是鼓勵的。"],["莊署長榮松：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，因為這個會跟世界接軌，在經濟合作發展組織OECD的部分，它在反賄賂公約裡頭，它跟聯合國反貪腐的公約都有要求「善意」以及具「合理之事證」條款，都有，所以剛剛我也歡喜聽到這個都是鼓勵的，那到時候我們在討論的時候，希望能夠納入。","另外，我要請教，國外對於吹哨者有獎金制度，那我方呢？你們行政部門現在的規劃，你們的立場。"],["莊署長榮松：我們最近送到行政院最新的第15個版本……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：第十幾？"],["莊署長榮松：第15版。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：第15版，什麼時候送到行政院？"],["莊署長榮松：3月份，3月4日。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：3月份送，現在5月，還是不理你。"],["莊署長榮松：行政院在審議當中。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：立法院已經在審，它還是不理，行政院會還是不開。"],["莊署長榮松：有關獎金的部分，我們是認為不要規定在這部專法裡面，但是在其他的專法、其他的行政規則裡面，現在很多是有規定的，所以那一部分也是可以適用的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你的立場是認為在母法裡頭不要去制定獎金的部分，但是其他細項的專法裡頭可以執行，是嗎？"],["莊署長榮松：可以，我們就委由行政機關他們去訂。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個要好好去商討，因為如果委由其他行政機關，大家層級、層次又不一，統統都不一，大家又亂掉。沒關係，訂一個法本來就是各方的意見大家好好地去討論，因此，我們剛才討論到動機、善意都必須納在我們的考量之中，我們有得到一個方向。","最後，本席要提，你的打詐四法越打越糟糕，損失的錢從二十幾億到現在，去年年底統計八十幾億快90億，這還是顯性的，隱性的還不知道，案件是倍數、倍數的在成長，這個國家、這個政府到底出了什麼事情？橫向都沒有聯繫好的情況之下，如果我們只有提高刑度，但是解決不了這些問題。","我再給你一個數字，這個原因是因為我們從5年前開始，2019年是2萬3,054件，2023年增加到3萬7,984件，虧損的金額從2019年的四十二億多，一直暴增到去年的88.78億，越打越詐，為什麼？越打越詐，人民越痛苦，為什麼？政府出了什麼問題？"],["蔡部長清祥：委員的數字，這個來源不曉得是如何啦！不過全世界都是一樣，打詐的案件是增加的，但是臺灣絕對不是倍數的，臺灣是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這樣子的說法本席沒有辦法認同，拿一個全世界都在增加，我們就要比爛的啊？所以部長，我知道你是有為的部長，你要勇敢說出來，去討論那個方案，好不好？"],["蔡部長清祥：我們是有很多的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：去討論那個方案，成立了打詐四法……"],["蔡部長清祥：所以提出了打詐專法。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：竟然是越打越詐……"],["蔡部長清祥：不會啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：人民是沒有辦法接受的嘛！好不好？"],["蔡部長清祥：是要再努力啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：研議方案，把方案給本席，好嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝，加油！"],["蔡部長清祥：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請傅崐萁委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-23","speakers":["吳宗憲","洪孟楷","徐欣瑩","林月琴","黃國昌","羅智強","王世堅","黃健豪","謝龍介","陳俊宇","沈發惠","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","沈伯洋","林思銘","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","賴士葆","牛煦庭","徐巧芯","翁曉玲"],"page_start":39,"meetingDate":["2024-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1134801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查( 一) 委員廖偉翔等18 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正\n草案」案、(三)委員馬文君等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條\n文修正草案」案、( 四) 委員羅智強等29 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」\n案、(五)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(六)委\n員蔡易餘等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(七)委員謝衣鳯等\n17 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、 ( 八 ) 委員洪孟楷等22 人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(九)委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十)委員涂權吉等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百\n三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、 ( 十一) 委員王世堅等22 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九\n條、第三百三十九條之三及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員謝衣鳯等17人擬\n具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三\n百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員葉元之等24人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中\n華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案；二、併案審查 ( 一 ) 委員廖偉翔等18 人擬具\n「揭弊者保護法草案」案、(二)委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案、(三)委員林月\n琴等17人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案、(四)委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」\n案、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案、(六)委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「揭弊\n者保護法草案」案、(七)委員吳宗憲等19人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案","agenda_id":"1134801_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"152651","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152651","tool":"pyannote","id":"152651-pyannote"},"job_id":"Rl64zavBZ2vWKt1k","queued_at":"2024-05-30 21:49:48","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-30 21:51:27","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152651"},{"time":"2024-05-30 21:51:28","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/069b0cf7e017bc30e9f2753c506ee506c1296c2fd5de7bd8dc07a9fba01a98dc9307f5de316788b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-05-30 21:51:43","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-05-30 21:51:44","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-05-30 21:51:55","msg":"status: 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{\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 483.454, \"end\": 483.474, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 483.474, \"end\": 483.735, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 483.735, \"end\": 483.755, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 483.755, \"end\": 483.775, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,661 --> 00:00:07,723\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n\n2\n00:00:30,652 --> 00:00:33,873\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一\n\n3\n00:00:54,542 --> 00:01:22,245\n都是說研議中那總共我累計了大概是研議到目前為止是7年喔那刑意正願版到底還沒送出來是為什麼卡在哪裡什麼原因呢請做說明說明一下就是最早我們法務部提出的版本是公部門有關的接避先立法那私部門的部分是另外處理但是後來有不同的聲音認為公司部門都要一起來\n\n4\n00:01:22,745 --> 00:01:30,492\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12\n\n5\n00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:48,348\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．\n\n6\n00:02:06,705 --> 00:02:10,719\n人民更不安心,你要不要給新的政府有什麼建議啊?\n\n7\n00:02:12,470 --> 00:02:38,561\n一個研議研議研議研議研議了7年所有的立委的版本都進來7年還看不到版本你要不要給他們什麼新的建議確實是很多不同的意見所以很審慎的在大家討論所以我說我們法務部也是做幕僚作業你也是非常無奈嘛是不是我講出你的心裡話我們在103年提出的103年提出到現在中華民國110幾年啊\n\n8\n00:02:42,858 --> 00:02:47,402\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君\n\n9\n00:03:04,827 --> 00:03:08,729\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n10\n00:03:33,138 --> 00:03:37,581\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一�\n\n11\n00:03:54,392 --> 00:04:04,695\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n\n12\n00:04:24,076 --> 00:04:29,242\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n\n13\n00:04:42,737 --> 00:04:48,943\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具\n\n14\n00:04:58,191 --> 00:05:05,778\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n\n15\n00:05:22,504 --> 00:05:38,455\n我們最近送到行政院的最新的一個第15版的版本是第10幾第15版什麼時候送到行政院3月份3月份送現在5月還是不理你那立法院已經在審他還是不理\n\n16\n00:05:38,735 --> 00:05:47,217\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n\n17\n00:06:07,199 --> 00:06:11,430\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n18\n00:06:16,926 --> 00:06:20,730\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n19\n00:06:38,570 --> 00:07:00,805\n前從損失的險性的二十幾億到現在去年年底統計八十幾億塊九十億還是險性的隱性的還不知道案件是倍數倍數的在成長這個國家這個政府到底出了什麼事情橫向都沒有聯繫好的這個情況之下本席要請教如果我們只有提高刑度\n\n20\n00:07:01,525 --> 00:07:08,508\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n\n21\n00:07:31,684 --> 00:07:34,545\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n\n22\n00:08:01,032 --> 00:08:03,775\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2661\t7723\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n30652\t33873\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一\n54542\t82245\t都是說研議中那總共我累計了大概是研議到目前為止是7年喔那刑意正願版到底還沒送出來是為什麼卡在哪裡什麼原因呢請做說明說明一下就是最早我們法務部提出的版本是公部門有關的接避先立法那私部門的部分是另外處理但是後來有不同的聲音認為公司部門都要一起來\n82745\t90492\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12\n100000\t108348\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．\n126705\t130719\t人民更不安心,你要不要給新的政府有什麼建議啊?\n132470\t158561\t一個研議研議研議研議研議了7年所有的立委的版本都進來7年還看不到版本你要不要給他們什麼新的建議確實是很多不同的意見所以很審慎的在大家討論所以我說我們法務部也是做幕僚作業你也是非常無奈嘛是不是我講出你的心裡話我們在103年提出的103年提出到現在中華民國110幾年啊\n162858\t167402\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君\n184827\t188729\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n213138\t217581\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一�\n234392\t244695\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n264076\t269242\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n282737\t288943\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具\n298191\t305778\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n322504\t338455\t我們最近送到行政院的最新的一個第15版的版本是第10幾第15版什麼時候送到行政院3月份3月份送現在5月還是不理你那立法院已經在審他還是不理\n338735\t347217\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n367199\t371430\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n376926\t380730\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n398570\t420805\t前從損失的險性的二十幾億到現在去年年底統計八十幾億塊九十億還是險性的隱性的還不知道案件是倍數倍數的在成長這個國家這個政府到底出了什麼事情橫向都沒有聯繫好的這個情況之下本席要請教如果我們只有提高刑度\n421525\t428508\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n451684\t454545\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n481032\t483775\t民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12\n","txt":"民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一\n都是說研議中那總共我累計了大概是研議到目前為止是7年喔那刑意正願版到底還沒送出來是為什麼卡在哪裡什麼原因呢請做說明說明一下就是最早我們法務部提出的版本是公部門有關的接避先立法那私部門的部分是另外處理但是後來有不同的聲音認為公司部門都要一起來\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．\n人民更不安心,你要不要給新的政府有什麼建議啊?\n一個研議研議研議研議研議了7年所有的立委的版本都進來7年還看不到版本你要不要給他們什麼新的建議確實是很多不同的意見所以很審慎的在大家討論所以我說我們法務部也是做幕僚作業你也是非常無奈嘛是不是我講出你的心裡話我們在103年提出的103年提出到現在中華民國110幾年啊\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一�\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n我們最近送到行政院的最新的一個第15版的版本是第10幾第15版什麼時候送到行政院3月份3月份送現在5月還是不理你那立法院已經在審他還是不理\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n前從損失的險性的二十幾億到現在去年年底統計八十幾億塊九十億還是險性的隱性的還不知道案件是倍數倍數的在成長這個國家這個政府到底出了什麼事情橫向都沒有聯繫好的這個情況之下本席要請教如果我們只有提高刑度\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.661 --> 00:07.723\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n\n00:30.652 --> 00:33.873\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一\n\n00:54.542 --> 01:22.245\n都是說研議中那總共我累計了大概是研議到目前為止是7年喔那刑意正願版到底還沒送出來是為什麼卡在哪裡什麼原因呢請做說明說明一下就是最早我們法務部提出的版本是公部門有關的接避先立法那私部門的部分是另外處理但是後來有不同的聲音認為公司部門都要一起來\n\n01:22.745 --> 01:30.492\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12\n\n01:40.000 --> 01:48.348\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．\n\n02:06.705 --> 02:10.719\n人民更不安心,你要不要給新的政府有什麼建議啊?\n\n02:12.470 --> 02:38.561\n一個研議研議研議研議研議了7年所有的立委的版本都進來7年還看不到版本你要不要給他們什麼新的建議確實是很多不同的意見所以很審慎的在大家討論所以我說我們法務部也是做幕僚作業你也是非常無奈嘛是不是我講出你的心裡話我們在103年提出的103年提出到現在中華民國110幾年啊\n\n02:42.858 --> 02:47.402\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）委員馬文君\n\n03:04.827 --> 03:08.729\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n03:33.138 --> 03:37.581\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一�\n\n03:54.392 --> 04:04.695\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員\n\n04:24.076 --> 04:29.242\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n\n04:42.737 --> 04:48.943\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案（事由．一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具:「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．事由．一）委員馬文君等17人擬具\n\n04:58.191 --> 05:05.778\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n\n05:22.504 --> 05:38.455\n我們最近送到行政院的最新的一個第15版的版本是第10幾第15版什麼時候送到行政院3月份3月份送現在5月還是不理你那立法院已經在審他還是不理\n\n05:38.735 --> 05:47.217\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n\n06:07.199 --> 06:11.430\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n06:16.926 --> 06:20.730\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．\n\n06:38.570 --> 07:00.805\n前從損失的險性的二十幾億到現在去年年底統計八十幾億塊九十億還是險性的隱性的還不知道案件是倍數倍數的在成長這個國家這個政府到底出了什麼事情橫向都沒有聯繫好的這個情況之下本席要請教如果我們只有提高刑度\n\n07:01.525 --> 07:08.508\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會\n\n07:31.684 --> 07:34.545\n民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案．一）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第12屆第1會期\n\n08:01.032 --> 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